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Cake Questions

Nov 30, 2005 | From the kitchen of Rose

Update Nov 2007: Have a new question? You should visit the new Cake Questions section of the forum, or the more recent blog entry, Cake Questions Too.

Jessica Question:
Hi!

I live in Australia and decorate cakes for friends and family. I just discovered an old copy of your book the cake bible in my local library. I think its great so I have looked up your site. I was just wondering if the book has been revised and updated since first being published? I notice that mud cakes are not covered at all in the book I borrowed and there are some other modern things missing too. Anyway I know you're busy so thanks for your time. Keep up the good work.

Rose Reply:
thank you for asking. in fact, the first revision of the cake bible has just come out but i haven't added any new cakes. what i revised was the equipment and ingredient sources, how to adjust batter for the more current pan sizes that are 2 inches high instead of 1-1/2 inches, and the chocolate sections because people don't talk chocolate brand anymore, they talk percentage of chocolate mass!

i am, at the present time, working on a comprehensive four color cake book for wiley which will be out in the next two or three years and it will include some of the newer cakes.

Cheryl Question:
Is it possible to attach ribbons made from fondant around the bottom edges of the tiers of a buttercream frosted wedding cake? How and at what point in assembly would you attach them? Thanks.

Rose Reply:
the answer is yes! i would apply them after the cake is assembled. they will stick to the buttercream so you should have no problem holding them in place.

Stacey Question:
What is the difference between your "favorite yellow cake" in this blog and the yellow cake in the Cake Bible in terms of taste and texture? Also, I recently made a French buttercream that tasted like a bowl of butter and a powdered sugar and butter frosting that tasted like pure sugar. What is the best vanilla frosting to use for cupcakes?

Rose Reply:
my favorite yellow cake on the blog is the same as the one in the cake bible. i put it in because i wanted everyone to have it even if they didn't have the book.

not everyone likes french buttercream. some people prefer the sugary, slightly gritty texture of powdered sugar buttercream to the satiny texture of the french variety. in any case, it's going to taste like butter and sugar because that's what it is. but it should also be flavored with pure vanilla extract. and of course there are many possible additions to buttercream such as coffee, orange, praline....

Melvin Question:
thanks for writing. i made the cheese cake but i was a little lose the next day i used low fat cream cheese was that a mistake? or should i have cook longer? thanks

Rose Reply:
i strongly advise against using low fat products in baking. they will adversely affect both taste and texture. better to cut smaller servings!

Rene Question:
Dear Rose,

I love baking and always have. And now I have the priviledge of helping a young woman, who is like a sister to me, with her wedding cakes. Unfortunately what she wants is a fair distance out of my league. I am hoping very much that you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me.

A single cake, I could do. What she wants to have one cake on each table, which turns out to be about 40 individual creations. (Ouch.) She is hoping for 2 tier cakes (around 8 and 6 inches.) We are tentatively planning 7 different designs with fillings including everything from dacquois to conserves.

It is the sheer volume that puts me out of my depth. It means that everything must be done as far ahead as possiblem, which I have very little experience with. I usually serve my cakes as soon after I make them as possible. Your Cake Bible is helping me a lot because it has so much information about storing each of the components. I am just trying to work out some logistics.

Is it better to prepare the components, store them individually and then put them together as close to the wedding date as possible OR is it better to put the cakes together and store them (for as long as 4, even 5 months?) ready to be decorated? Or could we even decorate them so they are ready to be tiered and finished? I really don't know.

I could just not begin to thank you enough for any guidance you could give me. I love this girl and want to do everything possible to help her wedding day be just the way she dreams of it. I just don't know how the best way to organize this size of a baking project.

Since I am here writing, I have a side question: what is your experience with using flower petals IN your cakes and buttercreams. I have seen these recipes, but have not tried them. Are they a pleasant suprise? Or more novelty, less than delicious?

Thank you, by the way, for all of the help your books have given me in pursuing my favorite hobby. :) Now that I know you have a blog, I look forward to enjoying that too. :)

Sincerely,

Rose Reply:
you are a saint!!! most professional bakeries when they make cakes ahead store the layers unfrosted in the freezer (well-wrapped). but this may be bc this gives them the option to use them with different buttercreams as the orders come in. but it is also easier to wrap an unfrosted cake. to freeze a frosted layer you would have to freeze it first and wrap it after the buttercream has set. so probably the best approach is to freeze the layers.

when you make cakes ahead, it is helpful to use a little simply syrup sprinkled on the layers to keep them from drying.

we all hope you will send a photo of this massive undertaking so we can post it to the blog!

re the flower petals, i don't imagine they would offer much in terms of flavor or in texture. there are wonderful extracts such as the rose syrup carried by la cuisine in alexandria.

Bill
11/04/2007 08:04 AM

Patrincia:
I piped the roses with a flower nail, first piping a central cone. I don't find that it takes all that long, especially since I'm only doing a few flowers. (When using the mbc, the center cone is very soft, and the flower moves around a lot while I work...but they came out just great!) I also pipe the roses at the dining table...away from the kitchen...and away from the heat.

Rose
11/03/2007 09:18 PM

bill it seems that no matter what happens you always come up smelling like a rose! that's really horrifying to have lost batter and scale to a sink of soapy water but so good of you not to disappoint the family.

Rose
11/03/2007 09:13 PM

kalustian in ny and mail order sells grated and flaked coconut. i've never seen chocolate curls for sale but you could try googling.

Patrincia
11/03/2007 09:56 AM

Hi Nushera - I tried making them again on a pointed plastic fondant tool. The plastic was very slippery and I had a bit of trouble turning it in my hand. And like you, I found the buttercream slid a bit. I haven't tried the dowel yet... that will be next.

nushera
11/02/2007 11:50 PM

Hi Patrincia- today i tried to pipe roses on pencil(leadless) and ballpoint pen(inkless), they seemed to "slip down" slightly. then experimentally took a dough hook from the hand mixer and piped on the straight end- those were the best and quickest. and i am sure theMBC must be chilled for a couple of minutes if piping this way, ie, without the center-cone.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 08:26 PM

Oops, a 1 1/2 lb coconut will yield 3 3/4 CUPS of grated coconut.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 08:24 PM

Hi Tara - I don't know if anyone else can tell you where to find shaved coconut, or white chocolate curls.

Have you ever covered a cake with white chocolate shavings or curls before? The white chocolate melts very quickly in your hands, so I've found it's easier to scoop and press the chocolate with an offset spatula (but it's a bit awkward and time consuming).

You can easily shave coconut using a vegetable peeler or mandoline slicer. Page 352 of the cake bible says a 1 1/2 lb coconut will yield 3 3/4 of grated coconut (10.5 ounces/300 grams). I would think you might get a large volume if you shaved instead of grated. The fresh coconut can be refrigerated for a week, or frozen for up to a year.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 07:59 PM

Oh no Bill..... I'm so sorry about your cake disaster, and I'm even more sorry you lost your scale in the process. I nearly had a heart attach today when I discovered my kitchen scale was missing... one of the kids had borrowed it for her science experiment and forgot to return it (shew!). Maybe there's a silver lining to your story - a possible upgrade to one of Rose's favorite My Weigh scales???

I tried making the Mousseline buttercream roses on a pencil like the ones in the video that Nushera shared with us. I really don't like the idea of building a rose right there on the pencil lead, so I covered it with plastic wrap (I know, it's not real lead). Anyway, let's just say it did NOT work out for me. I've done roses before, but I think my kitchen was a bit too warm after cooking and baking all day, because my rose petals kept drooping down immediately after I piped them. Also, the plastic wrap did tend to get in my way a bit. Anyway, maybe a sharpened dowel would work??? I'll have to experiment some more and report back.

Tara
11/02/2007 07:57 PM

I am going to be making a wedding cake for New Year's Eve. The cake that was chosen was featured in a Martha Stewart's Wedding magazine; it's covered in coconut. The bride is not sure if she wants to go with coconut or white chocolate curls. It's going to be a rather large cake and I have been looking on the internet for places that would have shaved coconut (not shredded). As well I'm wondering if there is a place that sells chocolate already in curls that you may know of. Time is an issue, that's why I'm looking to buy either the coconut or chocolate ready to use. I would appreciate any advice. FYI I love the 'Cake Bible'; it's my very favorite cook book (& I have many cook books)! Thanks, Tara

Bill
11/02/2007 05:12 PM

Oh...and when I did finally get the chocolate cake iced with the mouseline buttercream I was just too tired to make some decorators butter cream to do the roses that everyone in my family expects on birthday cakes...so...it says in TCB that the mouselline can be used to pipe roses...I actually didn't think I could do it because it seems so soft to me. Anyway...I added a little paste food color to the left over mouselline...loaded my pastry bag...and piped the most beautiful roses...I was shocked at how well it holds it's shape. Rose...thanks again for your amazing books.

Bill
11/02/2007 05:02 PM

I also thought I'd relay my most recent cake disaster. I was asked to do two birthday cakes for my nephews...their birthdays are 2 weeks apart and there was to be one party for the two. There would be a Carrot cake for one and a chocolate butter cake with mousseline buttercream for the other. The party was set for last sunday. I did the carrot cake on Friday night (it keeps really well) and saved the chocolate for saturday. I overslept saturday morning...had to work during the day...so the chocolate cake got pushed off until saturday evening...the night before the party. I didn't actually get to it until after 11 PM...and my kitchen was still a mess from dinner. I decided to get the cake in the oven and then do the dinner dishes and cake bowls and utensils together. I had the batter done and was weighing it into the pans, when the whole thing...pans, scale, bowl of batter fell into my sink filled with Soapy water AHHHHHHHHHHHH! I had to start over...praying i had enough cocoa and vanilla (which I did). My scale was ruined and I had to use measuring cups. By the time I finished the cake (including the decorations), cleaned the kitchen and wrapped the presents it was 6 AM...slept for about 4 hrs and went to the party. The cakes- Yum! but I was beat.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 03:43 PM

Hi Bill. It is fantastic! I've never covered the Chocolate Oblivion Truffle Torte with Creme Ivoire, but since the torte is chilled for a few hours, I can understand why you had some trouble with the Creme Ivoire firming up so quickly - btw, great way to overcome that little bump in the road!

I made the Golden Almond Cake today (pg 37) - I had forgotten how truly moist and delicious it was.

Bill
11/02/2007 02:52 PM

To Hector, Patrincia and Sabrina:

Thanks for all your input! So here is how it went with the oblivion Truffle Torte. First of all...this is the first time I made this recipe. It was simple, fast, and came out perfectly! Next was the Creme Ivoire. I've never done this either...I'm wondering if it was too cold in the room...or if I didn't put enough oil in (perhaps I measured wrong) because I had some trouble with it firming up too fast. So...I turned on my oven for a few seconds...just to warm it a little, placed the cake, with the setting creme ivoire on it in the oven...waited a few seconds, took it out, and swirled the icing with a spatula...I gave up on the idea of glazing...it looked lovely and tased amazing! Definitely a keeper!

Rose
10/31/2007 05:12 PM

prot, i've heard that soy milk works as a substitute for whole milk but have not tried it myself so i guess you'll need to experiment. but do report back as i'm sure many people would benefit.

Hector
10/30/2007 06:28 PM

7 pm, leave the winter clothes!

Patrincia
10/30/2007 06:04 PM

Hector - What time shall we arrive for Thanksgiving Dinner? :)

Hector
10/30/2007 05:53 PM

ok, ok, here is more of Hector's current project!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/thanksgiving/Rose-s-Celebrations.html

Patrincia
10/30/2007 05:11 PM

That Hector... He's a Keeper!!! :)

Hector
10/30/2007 04:25 PM

Joan, thank you!

Joan
10/30/2007 03:44 PM

Hi Hector - You know, I read these comments every day, and seldom say anything, but it is always with awe that I enjoy your remarkable insight and empathic comments. I am amazed, I laugh and giggle, and am just thoroughly impressed with the way you handle your expertise. Today is just one of those days I pop up to say so, such a pleasing interchange with Bill re crumb coating the bottom vs. the top. Regards, joan

Joan
10/30/2007 03:43 PM

Bill
10/30/2007 02:11 PM

Hector and Patrincia:
Thanks! Perhaps I'll spread a thin layer of the white chocolate butter cream...let it firm in the fridge, and then pour the glaze over for a smooth finish. Thanks to everyone for your help. It looks really yummy...serving it tomorrow.

Bill
10/30/2007 02:05 PM

Sabrina;
Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

Bill

Sabrina
10/30/2007 01:57 PM

Hi Bill, I actually did just this last week (if it is the oblivion truffle you are talking about). It worked just fine, I glazed it upside down and didn't do any preliminary coating. I only did one coat as I was just playing around, and you could see through it just a bit in a few spots, but with two coats of glaze I think it would produce a nice off-white coating. It was a delicious combination!

Patrincia
10/30/2007 01:43 PM

Hi Bill - Are you talking about the chocolate oblivion truffle torte? If so, you shouldn't have any crumb issues, so "bottoms up" to you! :)

(my only concern is that the white chocolate glaze won't be thick or opaque enough to cover the dark brown chocolate color of the torte - it might look a bit translucent)

Hector
10/30/2007 01:28 PM

Hi Bill, good question. Sure you can, but may I suggest you crumb coat it first with a thin layer of your glaze (with a spatula) to moist proof it, then you pour your glaze. See, the bottom of the cake is way more porous than the crusted top, and it could soak up glaze instead of letting it run fluid.

Bill
10/30/2007 01:21 PM

Hi bloggers. I've got a question, and since Rose is away, I'm hoping someone will know the answer. Last night I baked (and I've forgotten the name of the cake in The cake bible) but it is the flourless chocolate torte-type cake where you fold the egg foam into the melted chocolate/butter. The instructions in the recipe tell you to invert the cake to take it out of the pan and then re-invert right side up to serve. I am planning on glazing this cake with white chocolate glaze. The top of the cake, although flat, is a little lumpy (I didn't smooth it out completely...I thought in the oven it would smooth out more than it did). Since the top is essentially flat, is there any reason why I can't glaze the cake upside down...to get a smoother surface for the glaze? I don't think it will crack since the cake is essentially flat...but I'm not sure. Any ideas?

Patrincia
10/29/2007 04:45 PM

Gordon - a couple of reasons for your cracked top might be:
overmixed batter, oven too hot, cake baked too long, or it might have been placed too high in the oven.

Andrea - I like gas on top, and electric in the oven.

Hector
10/29/2007 03:57 PM

Gordon, this may also help:

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2005/11/rounded_vs_flat_cake_layers.html

Hector
10/29/2007 03:52 PM

Gordon, what you describe is most likely caused by improper oven temperature. Did you verify your oven temperature with an oven thermometer? Too cold, too hot? Did you bake at the middle rack?

Also, the Chocolate Cake Domingo is a very wet cake, perhaps you over baked?

Gordon
10/29/2007 03:36 PM

On 10/27/07 I wrote asking a question about a problem I had with the Chocolate Cake Domingo but the question listed under my name is about gas/electric ovens. Don't know how this happened but I would like to know why my Domingo cake split into three large parts, from center out, and took over 40 minutes at 350 to bake?

Gordon
10/29/2007 03:35 PM

prot srimekhanond
10/29/2007 02:49 PM

hello Rose.
i wonder if i could use soy milk to substitute milk when i bake a cake or bread. For sure it'll came out with diffrent smell (i think) but would it work? maybe it has less fat..?
the area i live i also could easily get Job's Tears Cereal milk and a lots more like corn milk, rice milk ect.

is there a trick or a guide, if i'd like to do experiment on these milk? so i could waste less food!

thank you so much in advance.
prot srimekhanond

Hector
10/29/2007 12:04 PM

Electric ovens are preferred for home baking, they heat faster and are more even than gas.

However I do prefer gas because gas is way more cheaper than electricity in Hawaii! and I do line with tiles and preheat my oven for hours and bake for hours, too.

But if I try to toast, roast or bake, something quick in my gas oven, forget it, it just takes too long to get ready.

For stove top, gas is preferred than electric because gas burners are easy to control temperature and don't have residual heat, but for boiling water electric is much faster. Also with gas stove top you need to have a good exhaust hood. Try induction stove, too! My ideal stove is 2 gas burners, 2 electric, and 2 induction.

Andrea
10/29/2007 09:41 AM

I was just wondering... Which is better for baking, Gas or Electric?

We have been talking about redoing our kitchen for a while. I have always used gas for both stovetop and baking, and I find that electric stovetop cooking gives the air a metallic taste, so I avoid it at all costs. However, I am considering installing a double oven to accomadate the amount of cooking and baking that I do, but all I can find is electric.

Gordon Rockhill
10/27/2007 07:19 PM

I tried the Chocolate Cake Domingo. Followed instructions to the letter. Cake split three ways at the center came out looking something like Grand Canyon. Cake took longer than 40 minutes to bake, cracks started opening at about 35 minutes. What happened?

Chris
10/27/2007 05:12 PM

Thanks, Matthew - I found the posts you were talking about, and will try the recipe this weekend!
Chris

Matthew
10/23/2007 01:58 PM

Chris,
If I remember correctly, the Golden Luxury cake works well for this. Search for posts by Elicia. She made a carved cake this year.

Chris
10/23/2007 01:05 PM

Hi Rose,
I just got your 1988 book, and was wondering which of the recipes for a white or yellow cake would be the most suitable for a carved cake? I am making lots of animals, cars, etc. and have a wonderful chocolate cake recipe, but have yet to find a white or yellow cake recipe that is almost as firm as pound cake, but one that can be baked in layers. Thank you for any suggestions you (or others) can offer.

Hector
10/22/2007 01:19 AM

I have the same issues. This last Dora cake I made, the Mousseline Buttercream had the works of Grand Marnier. But I've asked the mother for permission, and informed her that most of the alcohol should have evaporated by the time the cake was served which was 1 week later after I whipped the mousseline.

Mila
10/21/2007 10:17 PM

For kids you can use not the alcohol flavoring but just reduced juice from the frozen raspberries and if you add raspberry puree or concerve to the whipped cream it's going to be enough of flavor. I don't use anything "alcohol" in kids' cakes. They're happy with just fruit and berry cakes :)
I also wonder... will the boiling of syrup "kill" the alcohol and just leave it's flavor?

Alexandra
10/20/2007 05:07 PM

Thanks, I had planned on using Chambord or Framboise.
I am wondering, however, if I'll need to make an additional, simple chocolate cake for the kids? How pronounced is the alcohol flavoring? I'd also planned to use liqueur in the raspberry whipped cream.

Mila
10/20/2007 02:19 PM

Alexandra, i don't think that the cake will taste like a truffle if you use raspberry whipped cream with no chocolate added to it. But you can use ganache just on top of the cake and just syrup and cream between layers. I've made one like this 2 days ago, added Chambord to the syrup.

Mila
10/20/2007 02:15 PM

Oh yes, sorry i didn't put the syrup as it is like a part of genoise to me :)

Alexandra
10/20/2007 02:13 PM

I just bought the Cake Bible, so I haven't yet made the moist chocolate genoise.
I'll give that a try by doing a practice genoise before I decide on the final version. I don't really want a cake that is like a truffle; I'd prefer something cakier in texture. Do you think keeping the ganache covering fairly thin will achieve that?

Hector
10/20/2007 01:57 PM

That is heaven, a layer of chocolate ganache and a layer of raspberry cloud cream!

By all means on the moist chocolate genoise, and don't forget to apply syrup as it is required. The only time I don't apply syrup on the moist chocolate genoise is when I am making 1" thick little cake cutouts and top it with a big buttercream rose.

Mila
10/20/2007 08:18 AM

Alexandra, I'd also choose chocolate genoise + raspberry whipped cream. I also once tried covering the cake layer with chocolate ganache (in a thin layer) and then raspberry whipped cream on top and then all the rest of the layers in the same way - i liked the result sooo much! It tasted like some kind of raspberry truffle cake.

Mila
10/20/2007 08:18 AM

Hector
10/20/2007 03:27 AM

Alexandra, have you tried the Mousseline Buttercream with the raspberry variation? If that is still too heavy for you then, YES, use a whipped cream topping. The Mousseline Buttercream is so light and not so sweet compared to the "traditional buttercream."

In my opinion, the Moist Chocolate Genoise is the best chocolate cake you can have. The flavor is intense! and the cake is quite dense similar to a butter cake. Both reasons because it uses a whopping 8 oz of chocolate. This cake matches well with a raspberry whipped cream filling. A chocolate ganache frosting is such great finale.

Just a suggestion, because it is really a matter of personal preference. Cake is cake, as a matter of fact.

Alexandra
10/20/2007 02:59 AM

I'm looking for advice on mixing components from _The Cake Bible_. I want to make a chocolate raspberry layer cake. I envsion a chocolate layer cake with raspberry whipped cream filling and a chocolate ganache glaze or frosting. I prefer butter cakes to genoise but read in _The Cake Bible_ that that butter cakes should not be refrigerated while whipped cream must be. I'm not a fan of buttercream. I find the high butter content unpleasantly heavy. I'd like a light, airy, creamy raspberry filling. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I can create a cake that meets my taste specifications?

Matthew
10/20/2007 01:14 AM

Debbie, yes, Mila is right. The chocolate already contains sugar. This is one of my favorite chocolate buttercreams (probably because it is really almost a ganache).

Mila
10/19/2007 11:48 PM

Debbie, yes there's no sugar but there's 1 pound of milk chocolate and 8 oz of dark. I think that that quantity of milk chocolate will give this buttercream a perfect sweetness.

Debbie
10/19/2007 09:49 PM

I'm trying my first scratch birthday cake and am trying the all occasion yellow butter(for Mom's 88th) and wanted the choc. buttercream. Does the recipe on pg 250 of the Cake Bible not have sugar? A little confused after looking at the other recipes.

yvonne arencibia
10/18/2007 06:40 AM

Dear Rose:

I made your All Occasion Downy Yellow Butter CAke and I iccing with fluffy meringue, and it came out delicious. thank Yvonne

Bill
10/17/2007 05:32 PM

Uncle Ed:
Yes, I made the carrot cake...posted a message about it on another thread. It was delicious...but I really couldn't taste that much of a difference between the cake made with butter and the cake made with oil...so it's back to oil for me. Clarifying the butter was just another step that I don't need to do. And besides, butter is so much more expensive than oil.

uncle Ed
10/17/2007 08:45 AM

Bill-
Did you make the carrot cake?
How did it turn out?

WGN
10/11/2007 08:02 PM

I've never made 7-minute frosting before. Many of the recipes say to use it immediately, but does anyone have any comments for the way it holds up to refrigeration? I want to make a cake and refrigerate it overnight, but do not want it to dry out, harden, or crack like decorators (confectioners sugar) frosting.

Bill
10/10/2007 10:07 AM

Patrincia and others:
I will be making the carrot cake for my friend's birthday party. (Baking Sunday night, party on Monday evening) I am using my sister's recipe which she got from Gourmet Magazine and changing out the oil for clarified butter. I will report back on Tuesday with the results. I know it won't be as moist but the flavor has got to be better. I just hate measuring 1 1/2 cups of oil as the first ingredient in a cake (YUK)

Patrincia
10/10/2007 09:28 AM

Bill - I'll be curious to hear your results too, although I'm kind of on the fence about which would be better healthwise (but then again, who eats cake for the health benefits, right?).

Anon.
10/10/2007 09:17 AM

Bill-
You're definitely gonna have to report back to us how the carrot cake turns out...if it turns out good, then we all might want the recipe!! (I don't like oil in my cakes either!!)

Bill
10/10/2007 08:52 AM

Rose:
Thanks again for your help...I figured the clarified butter would work...just wanted to be sure. Now...Last night at about 10:45 PM I thought to myself:"I Need Cake" (I have to get up at 6:15 AM for work) So I cracked my new Cake Bible and made the White Chocolate Whisper cake for the first time. I made a lime curd mouseline butter cream...and finished at about 1:30 AM. I just want to say OH MY GOD IS THAT CAKE GOOD!. I never really liked white cake so I never made the white cakes in the cake bible...but the white chocolate intrigued me. It was amazing. Thanks so much again for all your wonderful recipies.

Rose
10/09/2007 08:35 PM

scot, i quite agree! and i do think fresh coconut milk would work well as a substitute for the milk.

Rose
10/09/2007 06:16 PM

i hope you kept the loose pages--it's convenient to work from them!

look up butter in the ingred. section to see what % is pure fat--or just clarify the butter and you will have "butter oil" which has the same fat content as oil. it should work but will offer a different texture.

Bill
10/09/2007 05:48 PM

Oh...and by the way...I just bought my second copy of the cake bible! (My first one has completely fallen apart). It is nice to have a fresh new copy...although the old one had character...and a big cocoa/water stain on the second page of the chocolate fudge cake recipe.

Bill
10/09/2007 05:42 PM

I've got a question regarding carrot cake. My sister has a favorite recipe...and I have to admit that it is quite good. The recipe has a very large quantity of oil...sort of like a muffin recipe. I was thinking of making it and using the white chocolate/cream cheese frosting in the cake bible to frost the cake. Here's the question: Could I substitue clarified melted and cooled butter for the oil? I just think that butter would be so much more flavorful. If I did...would I use the same amount of butter as oil by volume or weight? (or would they be about the same?)

Scot
10/08/2007 06:18 PM

hi rose. recently bought the cake bible -- white chocolate whisper cake is my favorite. question: can i substitute juice from a fresh coconut for the milk in that recipe? thanks!

Patrincia
10/08/2007 08:51 AM

Hi Yvonne - I'm not Rose, but maybe I can help. Yes, you can use Rose's meringue based buttercreams for all the decorations on your cake (they taste so much better than the crisco variety).

Your chocolate cake sounds like it was under baked. Were you using one of Rose's cake recipes?

yvonne Arencibia
10/08/2007 07:50 AM

Dear Rosa:

I planning to make a cake for my husband, It is 12". I want to decorate the top like a baseball field, my question is:
Can I icing the cake with Italian meringue, (your recipe) and decorate the top with buttercream icing, (the one that has crisco, meringue powder and powder sugar), or can I decorate everything with the meringue with the syrope at 250 temperature. I am going to use for decoration tips 3, 16 and 21 only.

Another question: I made a chocolate cake, raised to the top, and when I took from the oven sank, and around was separate like 1/4 inch. What was the reason. I expect your wise answer as always. Thank Yvonne

Patrincia
10/08/2007 07:28 AM

Gail - type "blogger Aaron" in the search box and you'll pull up a thread that talks about this problem in detail.

Gail
10/07/2007 10:56 PM

I just made two 9 inch layers of the chocolate butter wedding cake. It turned out so dry that I will just throw it away. I dont believe I overcooked it. I used real butter. What could I be doing wrong?

Veronica
10/05/2007 07:34 AM

Hey Hector. Glad you liked the beer mug cake. I have to say, it never crossed my mind to add beer to the buttercream. That would have been interesting. Must try. I'm sure I'll do it again for the christmas function for my husband's shooting club. Either the beer mug or a cake shaped to look like a cooler with beer cans stabbed on top and some gelatine squares to look like ice cubes. Hmmmm!

Hector
10/04/2007 02:25 PM

Jewel, try TCB's cream cheese frosting with real white chocolate, it has a very similar texture to buttercream, and yes, you can pipe buttercream on 'this' cream cheese frosting. It isn't a 'normal' cream cheese frosting; the real white chocolate adds a very nice texture and holds well. The taste is the best cream cheese frosting I've ever had!

After applying it, chill you cake until the frosting has harden, then apply the buttercream picture transfer.

jewel
10/04/2007 01:11 PM

dear rose,
I need to make a birthday cake for a friends daughter and she want a redvelvet cake with creamcheese icing, but she also want a picture of the bratz on the cake so I was thinking I could do a buttercream transfer but I dont know if buttercream and creamcheese icing mix.Meaning creamcheese icing on the cake and the art in buttercream. Do they? Also is this the way to do the cake or should I try some thing else can I do it in all cream cheese icing will it hold up? I'm so lost and I really want to do a good job.I've done other cake before but in one or the other.

Thanks for your help ahead of time

Rose
10/04/2007 11:21 AM

just so you know for future, i always (at least i try almost always) to give alternate methods if they exist so i'm afraid you do need a food processor of full size.
do check the many other recipes in the book to see if any fit the restriction guidelines.

Andrea
10/04/2007 09:47 AM

I have to make an icing to cover a child's birthday cake. The problem is that the child is allergic to soooo many things, including dairy, nuts and some vegetable products (he can have food with corn oil, but not vegetable oil or shortening). I was thinking to use the poured fondant from the TCB because of the simplicity of the ingredients, but I do not have a full size food processor, just the little two cup one that you can use to chop up garlic an small amounts of onion, and such. Can I use a blender or other appliance? Or are there any other icings that may be more suitable?

Rose
10/01/2007 01:37 PM

this sounds like a recipe for disaster! you can't deviate this much from the original recipe unless you follow substitution guidelines such as the ones for chocolate to cocoa in the cake bible.

keep in mind that sour cream has more fat than buttermilk (see ingredients in cake bible) and of course cocoa has less fat than chocolate so you have to balance out all these things. it can be done but it takes a lot of planning and then i would try it before hand as there are always surprises! do report back.

cherry puré and fudge sounds fabluous!

Yvonne Arencibia
10/01/2007 07:32 AM

Dear Rosa:

I am planning to bake a German chocolate cake for my son's birthday. the ingredients are:
4 onz. of chocolate semisweet
1/2 cup of boiling water
4 large eggs
2 stick of butter
2 cups of sugar
1 teaspoon of baking soda
1 cup of buttermilk
2 cups of all purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon of vainilla

My daughter brought me 2 pound of Perrugina(famous brand)chocolate powder from Italy, is due since may, 2006. My question is: Can I sustitute, the chocolate that I have to melt with 1/2 cup of water with chocolate powder, and instead water added 1/2 cup of sour cream, I would like the cake be special, I planning to filled with one layer chocolate fudge and another with cherries pure. I would like your suggestions as always. Thank Yvonne

Linda
09/28/2007 07:47 PM

Hi Rose,

I am having a problem with my favorite yellow cake (Sylvia Weinstock's classic yellow cake) and a few others when I make them using your two stage method. I get this thick dense gummy looking layer at the bottom. Can you please tell me why does this happens? I've been told that it could be the batter isn't mixed long enough...following your instructions I mix a total of 2 1/2 minutes stopping and scrapping the bowl regularly. I notice my CIA Baking and Pastry book mixes the two stage batter for a total of 10 minutes. Please provide your input on this.

Here is the recipes I've tried the two stage method with both are high ratio recipes:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/02/09/sylvia.weinstock/yellow.cake.html

and

http://www.baking911.com/asksarahbb/index.php?showtopic=2552

I really love the velvety texture other than the gummy layer of the cakes and much prefer the two stage method if I can over come this one problem.

Thanks

Hector
09/27/2007 02:05 PM

Veronica, the mug cake is awesome! Did you try to add some actual beer to flavor the buttercream?

Elicia, got a question for you (btw, where are you????? we miss you blogging). I am baking with Wilton's 3D panda bear pan and debating on using whole-egg-Golden Lux or the Yellow Butter Wedding Cake. I think the Golden Lux deserves to be served with a more 'pure' frosting rather than this artificially dyed multi-color frosting I'll use to shape this cake into Dora The Explorer. Plus perhaps, Dora will not be cut/served, so it may just go to waste! So, a more traditional 'simpler' butter cake may suffice?

As for what will be around Dora (and served), that I am not cutting corners! More on this later.

Veronica
09/27/2007 12:40 AM

Tracey. an after thought. You could even use those wafer cigars. I think that's what they're called anyway. I used them to cover my holy communion cake if you go back and have a look in my space. I thought if you stick skewers in the side of the cake and because the wafer cigar is hollow it would easily feed onto the skewer. And for the curve on the handle you could use a bit of one of those straws that bends and then another skewer to make it stronger. I hope I've made sense.

Veronica
09/27/2007 12:33 AM

Tracey. I'm glad you liked the cake. I used lollies for the handle. They are called musk sticks. Not sure if you've heard of them. But you could even use licorice. I stabbed long skewers into the cake to help support the musk sticks and create the shape. Then using a long piping nozzle I covered the skewers and lollies with buttercream taking great care and then into the fridge to set. I think with licorice you could stick the skewer right through the center and then into the cake. I hope I've explain myself ok. If you what to know anything else just ask. Look forward to see your cake if you decide to go ahead.

Bill
09/26/2007 06:23 PM

Rose:
Once again...thanks for your amazing recipies. I recently made your Genoise Classique. The last time I used limoncello in the syrup, filled it with lemon curd and frosted it with mousseline buttercream that had lemon curd beaten into it. Great success! This time I used lime curd and lime buttercream. I made it for a friend who loved the icing but said "I don't really like the texture of a Genoise!" (Can you believe that! but you can't account for taste). So here's my question. If I was going to pair the lime mousseline buttercream with a butter cake...which would be my best choice?

Bill
09/26/2007 06:19 PM

Patrincia:
I've been storing the cake in a plastic cake keeper in the refrigerator. I live in New York City...very humid in the summer, very dry in the winter...time of year doesn't seem to make a difference. I just don't know AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Patrincia
09/26/2007 05:56 PM

Bill - back to your angel food cake... the only thing I can think of is the humidity of the air where ever you are storing the cake. Angel food has a high ratio of sugar, which readily absorbs moisture from any and all sources. Where have you been storing your leftovers?

Tracey
09/26/2007 12:07 PM

Veronica, your beer mug cake is wonderful! How did you attach the handle? Is it cake, or something lightweight like styrofoam? I'd love to try it for my husband's birthday. Thanks for the inspiration!

Rose
09/25/2007 11:07 PM

your little boy really takes the cake!!!

Veronica
09/25/2007 11:02 PM

Now I have egg whites. hmmm what to do. So I decided to try the white chocolate whisper cake on pg 50. WOW. Highly recomend it.

Veronica
09/25/2007 10:58 PM

The cake came out perfectly. Here's a picture of him and the cake. Funny. There is also a picture of the beer mug birthday cake I did for my husband.
http://z1x2c3v4b5n6m7.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!4E90CD9DF0179897!416&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=&_c=PhotoAlbum

Rose
09/25/2007 09:31 PM

reminds me of my cousin when she was little and saw a chocolate glazed cake i made. she was so amazed and delighted she put her hands over her face. then she smelled it and got the tip of her nose print on the glaze. it's so wonderful to give children this unforgettable joy.

Hector
09/25/2007 09:20 PM

Veronica, baking with children is one of the most joyful things I've experienced, and when big enough they can be very handy and helpful, specially to cut and portion cupcakes! Thanks for sharing the human side of baking.

Veronica
09/25/2007 09:12 PM

This morning I felt like baking. I decided on baking the all occasion downy yellow butter cake. My 2.4yo son had to pull up a chair to watch the mixer going around. He looked up at me with his big eyes when I turned the mixer off and said "hmmmmmmmmm". Oh the joy in his voice as he shouted " yeah" when I gave him the beater to lick. Every child loves that job. Now it's baking beautifully in the oven and every so often he goes to check on it and says "hmmmmmmmmm". Can you tell that he loves cake.

Bill
09/23/2007 08:48 AM

Patrincia:

Yep...I let it cool, on the neck of a bottle, until it is completely room temperature. It may be the recipe. It doesn't happen right away...but after a few hours the bottom (or top before the cake is inverted) becomes all wet and soggy. Don't really know where the problem is. I'm going to try a different Angel food recipe next time or perhaps the Biscuit as per Hector's suggestion. Thanks so much for your input.
Bill

Bill
09/23/2007 08:46 AM

Hector:
Thanks for the info...I will try the Biscuit. As far as the Buttercream recipe...I ment to bring it with me to the office today (yes I work on Sunday AHHHHHHHHHHHH) But alas, I forgot it. I won't get a chance to get to it today, but I will definitely post it for you either monday or tuesday.

Bill

Andrea
09/22/2007 08:38 AM

Hector - I did use White Chocolate that contained Cocoa Butter. That ingredient was the sole reason that it took me a while to get to make that cake, since it was very hard to find. I searched every grocery store, and there are no real specialty stores here, but I finally found it in Walmart, of all places.

Hector
09/21/2007 11:49 PM

OMG, now I am feeling blue trying for true blue!

Andrea, did you use white chocolate that contains cocoa butter? Most white chocolate contain only vegetable oils and THAT could make a difference in texture. Mousseline is GREAT.

Patrincia
09/21/2007 10:24 PM

Hector - I don't know if this will help you at all, but sometimes red cabbage (which is really purple in color) turns kind of bluish when you cook with it. If you could find out what the chemical reaction is, you might be able to recreate that reaction with the blueberries.

Also, I googled "natural blue food color" and found a supplier that supposedly carries a true blue food color made from all natural ingredients.

Rozanne
09/21/2007 09:52 PM

Elicia, I would have gladly made a cheesecake but my brother wants a genoise.
Hector, I think your buttercream will turn purple if you use blueberries to colour it. I'm really curious to see what you will use to colour it blue. Any ideas yet?

Andrea
09/21/2007 09:33 PM

So I finally got a chance to try the Golden Luxe cake, but I am sure that I did something wrong, because everyone loved the taste, but not the texture. I did not adjust the eggs as Elicia suggested, because I used a shaped cake pan (Baby Carriage), but not a "stand-up" or 3D cake pan. The problem was that the cake, while moist and delicious, crumbled when it was cut into. I would say that about a third of the cake was left on the cake board because it was simply crumbs. Having reread Elicia's earlier note about the eggs, would I be correct in assuming that the whole eggs are necessary in this type of pan as well since it requires a longer baking time?

I also finally got the courage to try to make the Mousseline Buttercream today. Having only used the "Wilton" recipes, which are so simple, I was a bit intimidated as first. Of course, I have gotten over that as soon as I finished making the Buttercream, which is the BEST tasting I have ever had, and I have resolved to make a large batch of this and freeze it in 3 cup containers so that I always have some on hand. I made it as a Chocolate Mousseline to crumb coat a Chocolate Mayo Cake and then I got more adventurous and made the Chocolate Fondant (absolutely delicious) to cover the cake. (The cake was requested by a severe chocoholic, though the decorations were of my own choosing). Having never EVER worked with fondant before, I was nervous, but it worked out well.

Hector
09/21/2007 09:10 PM

In fact, one of the ingredients in chocolate is coffee? or to the least, cacao has a lot of caffeine!

Patrincia
09/21/2007 09:03 PM

Bill - are you letting your angel food cake cool completely before you remove it from the cake pan?

Patrincia
09/21/2007 09:01 PM

Oh Hector, I agree... just a touch of coffee flavor adds such depth to the chocolate buttercream (ganache too). I like to use espresso powder disolved in a little liquid.

Hector
09/21/2007 07:47 PM

Bill, do post your buttercream recipe, as I would like to compare method and technique. It sounds delicious.

If I may add my 2 cents, my favorite chocolate buttercream is the mousseline buttercream with the chocolate variation. It isn't as sweet, and if you want it intensely chocolate use a 60% or higher cacao bittersweet. In fact, you could also add more chocolate than what the recipe states. Adding Kahlua or Frangelico, makes the buttercream come ALIVE, not saying that it will taste alcoholic, but in my opinion, specially Frangelico, the liquor makes the chocolate flavor more intense as if you were eating it at a chocolate farm in Costa Rica! (the stale, dry, preserved chocolate becomes organic again). In fact, the best chocolate confectioneries have all some liquor added, you can't taste the alcohol, you only do the flavor. Mousseline also has an incredible shelf life and room temperature handling.

I favor Biscuit de Savoie or Biscuit Roulade over Angel Food cake. Give it a try, it is heavenly with cream and berries. I believe Angel Food cake is the USA version of Biscuit (which is French... or Italian since Savoie is a French speaking town in Italy!).

In all cases, do trim off the top and bottom crusts, they will get worse (soggier) when frosted. I know that the crusts 'can' be the tastier and most decorative parts of the cake, but do try without, skinned frosted cakes do taste great.

Bill
09/21/2007 06:16 PM

I've got another question, this time regarding Angel Food Cake. There is no recipe for Angel Food in The Cake Bible (just the chocolate Angel Food) and I know that a lot of people find Angel Food too sweet...but it is one of my Mom's favorites. Here's the question. The recipe that I've been using is really yummy (yes very sweet) but good, and everyone seems to like it. The problem is that the top of the cake (or the bottom, if you invert it after taking it out of the pan, gets very wet. Is this because of the high level of sugar? Am I doing something wrong? Do all angel foods do this or is there a problem with this recipe? Mom will be coming over for dinner in a few weeks and I was planning on baking an angel food cake for dessert, splitting it, and filling it with whipped cream and straw berries. Any thoughts?

Bill
09/21/2007 05:59 PM

Rose:
Thanks for the tip on the Jefferson Market. I don't usually shop there, it is a little out of the way for me (I live on East 59th) but I hear it's great. I should definitely give it a try. Again...thanks for all your wonderful advice, your amazing books, and this website. I'm heading home now and will be baking a big batch of cup cakes on sunday (using the Chocolate Fudge cake recipe) and a chocolate buttercream recipe that I got from a friend (it incorporates some dutch processed cocoa in addition to the melted chocolate...it is just a little more intense than a typical chocolate buttercream but not as intensely chocolate as ganache. If you're interested, I can post the recipe for the buttercream here.

Bill

Hector
09/21/2007 02:13 PM

Elicia, I did what I could to deliver this cake for my friends baby shower tomorrow. Clearly, I am 'too' concentrated with the charlotte and mango/passion projects.

I started with naturally apricot mousseline buttercream which I had stored. Adding dried blueberries to achieve baby blue and strawberry conserve to achieve pink. But the apricot base color deviated into unappetizingly shades. I felt that I've lost my magic, really. So, I 'recoursed' to food coloring.

But taking this into good experience, I still need to achieve a blue mousseline, naturally. I plan to make a finely strained pure with the dried blueberries, assure it is blue, and add it to PLAIN mousseline buttercream. I need to make ocean motives to top 'cut-cupcakes' for this Dora The Explorer At The Beach cake. Dora will inevitable be a tongue painter! red outfit, black hair, you name it.

Questions, are blueberries blue? they seem purple to me!

Rose
09/21/2007 08:50 AM

deborah--when you say the 6 inch cake started separating i assume you mean that it curdled or fell apart. since the other layers weren't affected this way it probably got severely over-baked.

Elicia
09/21/2007 07:06 AM

Lovely roses as usual, Hector. But I wld rather you use raspberries and blueberries for colouring, haha! What made you decide to try paste colour? Your natural shades were just so amazing!

Hector
09/21/2007 04:49 AM

This is a tongue painter! Not sure if I love it or hate it. The best part is piping that delicate irregular pink trim on the cake base, that I love.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Color-it.html

Elicia
09/20/2007 09:43 PM

Hi Silvia, I used whole eggs (1 to replace every 2 yolks) coz Rose advised that it wld prevent overbrowning of crust from the longer baking period of 3D cakes. With cupcakes, its the reversed!

Hi Cindy - my TCB version uses cake flour. The original baking powder amt is 1 tbsp + 1.5 tsp (similar to 4.5 tsp actually). For cupcakes, increase it by another 0.5tsp. I think your structure is too strong and oven temp is too high - try reducing the temp by 25 degrees Fahrenheit. Its a lovely cake, so I hope you'll try it again.

Oh Hector - "golden luxed" - loved that! Well you were responsible for getting me "rosed up"! Well, we have coconut here as its an essential ingredient in local cooking! Thks for the insight on passionfruit - I've never seen them before I made that batch of curd! I have 3 more cupcake orders to go (one with tedious fondant work) - so I'll try to gather the pics and email you soon - some of the pics are in my hubby's mobile!

Oh Rozanne - do freeze - it doesn't affect the texture at all. Or try Rose's cheesecake - it keeps very well for weeks in the fridge!

Back to my cupcakes!

cindy Chiu
09/20/2007 09:13 PM

Hi, Elicia,I want to know what kind of flour do you use for the golden luxury cup cake and the final amount of baking powder. I remember the recipe in TCB call for 300 gm of self raising spongeflour and I cannot get that . I used cake flour and have to measure the baking powder. I have a recipe which recommend 1.5 tsp bpd and 0.5 tsp of salt to 100 gm of flour to convert it to self raising flour. For 300 gm of flour that means 4.5 tsp.But I was afraid that would leave a strong aftertaste so I only added 3 tsp bpd, and I used 2 yolks and the rest of weight whole egg. I baked it in a 8 in cake pan . The cake came out having a dome in the centre and cracked in the middle like a small volcano in the middle of the cake.Should I increase the bpd to 4.5 and lower the oven temp a bit to achieve a flatter and more even top? Any advice appreciated and thank you.

Silvia
09/20/2007 02:56 PM

>...then I realised it was because I've gotten so used to making the Golden Luxe with whole eggs (stronger structure) instead of egg yolks....

Elicia, why did you use whole eggs, do you live at a high altitude? And how many of them? Living in a high altitude, I always need to make the cake's structure stronger, and it would be very helpful for me to hear about your experience. And I'a also love to see your cupcakes!

Hector
09/20/2007 02:17 PM

Elicia, what a accomplishment. When you get some pictures please email them to my hotmail account inkasoy@hotmail.com, so I can share them here!

I am totally Golden Luxed! and you are responsible for that!

Hector
09/20/2007 01:55 PM

Rozanne, you can always freeze! and for months.

Be sure you put a sign on your fridge for your guests saying "cake in progress, do not open or store anything." It sounds harsh, but I am serious about this, if they store a case of pop or bear, your fridge will take about 2 hours to recover its temperature, and 'that' is what kills your refrigerated or frozen cakes. Let me tell you, one time, one of my guests left the fridge doors open so it would cool the kitchen while he was having his lunch!

When I made the big cake, I had a chest freezer, and that NOBODY was allowed to open. I prefer to freeze cakes than leaving in the refrigerator, specially when you are talking of the 1 week mark. Of course, there are some cakes you can't freeze.

Deborah
09/20/2007 12:20 PM

Rose:
I made the 3-tier wedding cheesecake from The Cake Bible. I had to make it in two batches, and I believe I split the ingredients correctly. The cakes were refrigerated for 11 hours before unmolding the 6" cake and returning it to the refrigerator. After about 30 minutes I noticed it cracked and started separating. Any thoughts on what happened?

Rose
09/20/2007 12:17 PM

jefferson market on 6th and around 10th always has it!

Bill
09/20/2007 12:06 PM

Rose:
Bill here. Actually, I live in midtown Manhattan. (That's why space is at a premium...but supermarkets do tend to carry unusual items (like Lyles refiner's syrup)...but try to get a regular grocery item...Impossible! Sometimes I have to go to NY cake and Baking to get cake flour!

Rozanne
09/20/2007 09:59 AM

Thank you for all your help Hector. I will let you know how it turns out. I was planning on making it on Wed. but due to the fact that I will be having guests (from Sydney) staying with me I was wondering if making it on Sun. would affect the quality of the cake. They were not supposed to stay with us but changed their minds and in the process ruined all my plans and this is how my confusion began. Oh well! The cake is for the 29th of Sept. It is for my brother's wedding. My fridge is going to be full of cakes. Fortunately I have another small fridge. Thanks for your tips on the temp. of the fridge.

Elicia
09/20/2007 04:14 AM

Had an exciting and tiring day - delivered all the food for the wedding registration reception (yes, I cooked everything!), and everybody was so excited over the raspberry hearts cupcakes! They were taking photos etc! Already the bride called me and said they wanted to order cupcakes from me! I've gone cupcake-mad!

Days of baking/cooking means a long long list of comments to read on this blog! So just want to pipe in on my vote for the Golden Luxe Butter Cake! Only disadvantage is that the Varlhona white choc is costly!

FYI, I finally made the most perfect cupcake with that recipe. I initially had a doming problem - then I realised it was because I've gotten so used to making the Golden Luxe with whole eggs (stronger structure) instead of egg yolks. So - I went back to the original recipe of yolks-only, increased the baking powder as per Rose's advice for cupcakes, lower the oven temp by 15 degrees Celsius - and I got the most beautiful cupcake - ever so slightly domed (almost flat - great for glazing), and an extremely soft and fluffy moist texture. It is less dense than the recipe baked in a large cake tin, but absolutely delicious and pairs so well with fruit mousselines and Creme Ivoire!

Am on my way to ordering another 5kg of white choc - will be baking lots of Golden Luxe Butter Cupcakes over the next few weeks!

Hector
09/19/2007 11:54 PM

Rozanne, sorry for the confusion. Re: refrigeration life, do what fits your schedule best. There won't be much harm done if you do it on Wed! Just 'try' to refrigerate it asap (don't leave the cake at room temperature and go away to do something).

I prefer to first refrigerate the cake unwrapped until the frosting has harden and will no long stick, about 2 hours. Now wrap tightly with plastic wrap. And if you have the room, now put that wrapped cake inside a cake box (it isn't necessary really, the box is just to protect again smashing the cake by something else in your fridge).

How long it takes for a frosted refrigerated cake to reach room temperature? It is answered in TCB. 4 hours I think. When you take out the cake from the fridge, remove the plastic wrap so it won't stick to the cake as it thaws.

I don't think why you would need a styrofoam box, unless you are handling frozen cakes, or you want your refrigerated cake to take longer than 4 hours to reach room temp. Don't refrigerate or freeze a cake in a styrofoam box because it will take hours if not days to reach your chill!

Rozanne
09/19/2007 10:33 PM

Thank you Hector. Now I am confused. Should I wait till Wed. or make it on Sun?
Anyway, if you don't mind may I ask you a few questions...
Do you know how long it takes for a refrigerated genoise iced with buttercream to come to room temp. in an air conditioned room? Re wrapping the cake in several layers of plastic wrap, can I put it in a cardboard cake box and then wrap the box in plastic wrap? Or do I have to use a plastic or styrofoam box? I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions. I have never had to keep a cake for so long.
Thank you.

Rose
09/19/2007 09:01 PM

cathy, i just want to point out that i wrote about not liking the way cakes bake in 3 inch high pans unless they are génoise. if you deviate from my recipes and pan recommendations you will have to experiment on your own to find a satisfactory result. i'm sorry i can't help but i can only recommend what i find to be the best.

Rose
09/19/2007 08:51 PM

bill, you must have come from the uk?
there is a category in the section on the left for pies, and then general or i forget what other category. you can always post anywhere but if you check out all the listening on the left of the blog you'll find a lot of interesting things.

cathy--everything i know is on those charts so instead of my looking at them i'm going to ask you to do so!

Hector
09/19/2007 07:57 PM

Oh Cathy, you are correct.

Cathy
09/19/2007 07:50 PM

Hector, when you said two thin layers, did you mean bake two separate cakes at sep times? My pan is 3" high. Won't that hinder the baking process if the batter does not come at least 1/2 up the pan?

Cathy
09/19/2007 07:47 PM

Rose, should I use the same baking powder amount for level 6/sheet cakes--6.13g white base--for the 3/4 sheet cake? I guess I should divide that amount between my two batches..?

Is there anything else I should consider re baking powder for this large of a sheet cake?

Bill
09/19/2007 04:46 PM

I haven't found a place on the website for pie and pastry...I'm a computer dork...so I'm making this posting here. I recently made the pecan pie in The Pastry Bible. First of all... it was amazing. I don't like pecan pie...I made it for my sister...and she loved it! (I did too...and I usually hate the stuff). One of the good things about where I live is that I was able to buy Refiners Syrup, as well as brown sugar from Mauritius in my local supermarket. When I tasted the refiners syrup (I was curious) it took me right back to my childhood. When I was a kid in the 1960's my grandmother used to buy these lolly pops that were in animal shapes. They were very smooth in your mouth and came in a plastic bag with a little red plastic locking device on the top of the bag. Does anyone remember these? Are they still made? They had a very unique taste. The refiners syrup tasted exactly like these lolly pops (it was probably used in their production). I loved them as a child and would love to find them again.

Hector
09/19/2007 02:59 PM

Bill, I feel for your 'premium space' limitations. I had to get rid off a corner coffee table to place my little 12-bottle vinotemp. Then, I got rid of my guest room's desk to place a chest freezer. At this pace, I plan to get rid off my dining table to place another freezer under. Fortunately, I have tons of table cloths and rugs, where these appliances sit disguised!

Oh, and my kitchen refrigerator is always full of great baking stuff and ingredients that I don't let anybody put any of their foods or drinks inside when entertaining (the constant opening/closing of the doors drives my thermometers nuts). What I do is block access to my refrigerator by placing one of those fancy stainless steel kart-coolers in front where guests can stuff it with whatever they want!

Cathy, you could bake 2 thinner cakes and fill the layers with something yummy.

Rozanne, I think you will be ok to refrigerate your genoise for that long. It really depends on how much the temperature fluctuates in your refrigerator. Specially, don't let ANYONE place a warm six pack of beer or soda in your refrigerator, because that takes about 3 hours of temperature fluctuation! Also, keep the cake airtight, use several layers of plastic wrap for example.

Also, something that I found helps to extend refrigeration shelf life, is to minimize the number of room temperature hours. For example, usually I bake at night, and let the cake cool at room temperature overnight; instead, I stay up a little later and refrigerate the cake as soon as it has cooled (2 hours or so).

Regarding the syrup stuck when making mousseline, try using a ceramic bowl or gravy saucer, instead of a glass pyrex. The ceramic retains heat better than glass, thus there is a lot less stuck in it. I also find that if the ceramic bowl is at 80oF, it is much better, too, this I found out when dealing with the syrup during cool evenings, sometimes as low as 65oF.

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:45 PM

Oh! I also meant to ask....in a chart I found, it indicates that as the pan gets larger, the temp of the oven should go down to 325 deg. Would you agree with this for a 3/4 sheet cake? It looks like it could take up to 75 mins for it to bake...

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:15 PM

Thank you Rose and Bill for answering my above ? about the 3/4 sheet cake pan and batter. I am so relieved there is a way!

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:12 PM

Great questions! Bill leads me to a related question...when I make Mousseline BC, it seems like much of the syrup (cooled) ends up sticking to my measuring cup by the end of my additions to the eggs. I always wondered about whether this made much difference in sweetness of the end bc.

Can I microwave the liq measuring glass at the end to get the rest of the syrup into the mixture?

Bill
09/19/2007 12:06 PM

Rose and Matthew...it's so simple...Why didn't I think of it?...I've been baking for years!

Thanks so much

Rose
09/19/2007 11:59 AM

that's a first!

o.k. i'll add one thing--if you weigh it out it will cool off too much so you'll need to microwave it to make it liquid.

Matthew
09/19/2007 11:58 AM

Whoops--looks like we answered at exactly the same time!

Matthew
09/19/2007 11:56 AM

Bill--it seems like you could just make a larger amount of syrup (since those ingredients are so cheap), and then weigh out the amount you need just before adding it to the eggs.

Rose
09/19/2007 11:56 AM

the problem is that until the water boils out you won't start getting to the right temperature--temperature and water content are synonomous. what you could do is make more syrup and only use part of it!

Bill
09/19/2007 11:52 AM

Rose:
I've recently discovered your blog...and I love it almost as much as I love your wonderful books. I'm ready to buy my second copy of the cake bible...I've used mine so many times that the pages are falling out! I have a question. I usually make extra buttercream and freeze the leftovers for cupcakes (as you suggest). Recently, though, with no room in my tiny freezer, I wanted to make a small batch of mousseline buttercream to frost a single layer genoise. Problem: the small amount of water in the syrup made it difficult to get the entire end of the thermometer submerged. Is the amount of water crucial? Does the excess boil out? I'd appreciate your input before I give it a try...

Rozanne
09/19/2007 11:40 AM

Thank you for your respons Rose and Bill. I guess I will wait till Tues. or Wed. to make the cake then.

Rose
09/19/2007 10:16 AM

agreed--it won't be quite as wonderful but still wonderful!
cathy, 2 inches are ideal but 1 inch still allows for circulation so that should be fine.
re mixing the cake in two different batches, i would have absolutely everything ready to go and then do the batter in the 6 quart, immediately do the batter with the hand mixer (if you had a second bowl for the 6 quart that would be better still) and mix the 2 together. it only takes a few minutes to mix my batters so that's why i think this would work the best. and although you can't overload the 6 quart with the whole batter, once you take out the paddle there will be room for the rest of the batter--i hope--and then you can just stir the two together with a large spatula. OR quickly transfer both batters to a larger bowl, stir them together, and fill the pan. whew!

Bill
09/19/2007 10:15 AM

Cathy:
With respect to your oven...I live in Midtown Manhattan where space is at a premium...and I have a 24 inch range...giving me very little internal oven space. I do have a good oven...but often have to put my pans very close to the sides...and may cakes come out fine...even, with no problems. I would say, as long as you have a good oven, you shouldn't have a problem. As far as the large quantity of batter: If you are making a butter cake, and using the two stage mixing process that Rose uses in her book, the batter can be mixed pretty quickly. I would make two batches in the mixer, and then mix them together by hand in a big bowl (I would probably use a stock pot (that's the only thing I have big enough) and then pour it into the pan. The 6 minutes or so that it will take to mix up the batter shouldn't make a difference...I wouldn't keep the batter in the fridge for 1/2 an hour...that would cause a problem with the levening agent. Good luck

Bill
09/19/2007 10:07 AM

Rozanne:
I have made a genoise that was iced with buttercream. I served it on Day 2 after baking, but kept the leftovers in a plastic cake keeper in the refrigerator for a week. It held up pretty well. It wasn't as perfect as it was on day 2 (it seemed to get a little soggy...almost as if the humidity in the cake keeper affected the genoise)...but it was still delicious. Perhaps since your cake will not be cut, the sogginess won't happen. In any event...even with the extra moisture, the cake was still delicious...good enough to serve to company.

Cathy
09/19/2007 09:48 AM

I just got my new 3/4 sheet pan, and while in the oven, it has only about an inch between it and the oven sides on the right and left. I know you should have 2 inches. Do you think I will have a problem with this?

Also, I just measured last night and found out it will take 10 qts of batter to get it 1/2 full (3 " sides). I have my 6 qt mixer. I'm wondering if I should 1 of two things: 1) mix both in my 6 qt and hand mix the rest simultaneously 2) (I don't know if I should do this) mix 6 qts of batter, refrig in pan in frig, then the rest and pour into same pan to add to it. Would this be okay or would it break down the structure of the cake somehow?

Thanks everyone!

Rozanne
09/19/2007 09:14 AM

Hi everybody,I was wondering, if I make a genoise on Sunday, decorate and refrigerate it the same day, will it still be good for next Sat? I know Rose mentions in the Cake Bible that the finished cake can be refrigerated for 5 days. Do you think the extra 2 days will affect the cake?
Thank you.

Rose
09/18/2007 09:37 PM

sweet... i feel your joy!

Hector
09/18/2007 07:11 PM

Silvia, thank you! It isn't 'my cake' it is Rose's, and indeed it is a deluxe version of a butter cake. The use of white 'real' chocolate, replacing part of the butter, sugar, and milk, turns a traditional butter cake to a very fine crumb cake thanks to the emulsifiers in the chocolate (Elicia attests). Now I am in a bind deciding which is the best butter cake on my list: from airy to firm, the Golden Genoise, the Golden Lux, or the Buttermilk Country Cake.

Bill, that is a PERFECT combination, genoise with limoncello and with a lovelly lemon buttercream, which is the king of the flavors on buttercreams.

Silvia
09/18/2007 05:24 PM

I hate to be repetitive, but hector, your cakes look all great and delicious.
The crumb and colour of this cake seem lovely to me.
Nice to have your opinon about these kaiser pans, as i´m planning to order a couple of them

Bill
09/18/2007 05:17 PM

Rose:
I am a fairly experienced baker and cake decorator (not for a living...but for any and all functions for work, friends and family). I've had The Cake Bible for about 5 years and it is truly my bible. Every recipe that I've tried has worked perfectly and they are truly delicious. I recently made my first Genoise (I guess I just never got around to it). I split the layer, used Lemoncello liqueur in the syrup, filled the layers with lemon curd, and iced the cake with Mousseline butter cream that had some lemon curd beaten into it. Let me just say: OH MY GOD!. I wish you could have seen the look on my friend Cathy's face when she took a bite. It was one of the most gratifying moments of my baking career. Thanks for all of your wonderful recipies and all of the fantastic technical information you give.

Hector
09/18/2007 03:11 PM

Jennifer, it is made by Kaiser (Germany), and actually widely sold in the U.S. Do a search in Amazon, under Kaiser Tinplate Springform, look for the ones with 2 removable bottoms, one flat, one tube. The tube has the indentations.

I am surprised of how well the cake baked in spite of not been an aluminum pan. I think the wide tube helps in heat conduction, you can't go wrong.

jennifer
09/18/2007 01:41 PM

Oh Hector!

I loooove that cake pan! right side up or upside down the cake looks great. Where can I get one?

jen

Rose
09/18/2007 09:58 AM

it's being revised and translated in spain right now (do a search on the blog and you'll see the publisher etc.) and should be out within the year!

yvonne arencibia
09/18/2007 05:28 AM

Dear Rose:

I have your bible book in English, but by any change do you have it in Spanish language. It will be a great help. Thank Yvonne

Rebekah
09/17/2007 07:26 PM

I am looking for a good Della Robbia Cake. My mother used to have a Wilton book with the most beautiful cake in it. It was a white cake, icing unkown (but white and SMOOTH)with deeply colored fruits and leaves done in a wreath around the top. I do not know if they were piped or formed from paste. The date of this book would be about 1960. In the meantime, if anyone has a non-angel food Della Robbia recipe, please let me know. The cake I am looking for is a decorated, frosted cake. Thanks!

Rozanne
09/17/2007 11:51 AM

Thank you Rose. That's what I thought but wanted to check with you to be sure.

Rose
09/17/2007 10:06 AM

no need to use cream of tartar as the whites are beaten with a significant amount of sugar so no risk over-beating.

Rozanne
09/17/2007 09:49 AM

Liz, I know what you mean about having nights only to get things done. I have two little girls and I am always trying to find shortcuts and easy ways to do things. Sometimes I make Swiss Meringue buttercream using the same ingredient quantities as Rose's Mousseline buttercream recipe. I use pasteurized egg whites and don't use the cream of tartar. I have left cakes iced with this buttercream at room temp. and it has been perfectly fine. However I have not used it under fondant. I hope this helps you somewhat.
Rose, do you think I should use the cream of tartar or would it not serve any purpose in the Swiss Meringue recipe? Thank you.

Rose
09/17/2007 07:16 AM

gorgeous hector--and empowering for everyone to realize that one can turn out great cakes without highly specialized equipment--it's just not quite as easy.

Liz
09/17/2007 06:38 AM

Thank you, Rose! If anyone has any opinions regarding swiss meringue buttercream i woud realy appreciate your comments!

Hector
09/17/2007 12:00 AM

This is my first Golden Luxury Butter Cake.

I baked this at my friends kitchen, without any 'specialized' equipment. It was a standard electric home oven with exposed heating elements. I placed one rack on the very top holding a large and heavy rectangular Lodge griddle, preheated for 45 minutes. I believe this contributed to the even baking.

The kitchen scale was a $4.99 Walmart diet scale, I thought it should belong to my niece's doll kitchen, but it worked ok for its use. I carefully measured by volume and verified by weight as accurate as possible.

The pan used is a spring form with a savarin tube base, made of shiny tin.

Enjoy,

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/GoldenLuxuryButterCake.html

Rose
09/16/2007 10:56 PM

mousseline buttercream (page 244 cake bible) would be fine but i can't attest to swiss meringue buttercream as the egg whites are only brought to 140 to 160 degrees F so may lack the stability. if you prefer to use this buttercream you need to do a test sample to see what it is like after sitting at cool room temperature for 2 days. maybe someone else on this blog has experience with swiss meringue and will comment.

Liz
09/16/2007 10:16 PM

Hi Rose!
I am a huge fan of Swiss Meringue Buttercream. I want to know if i can fill and crumb cakes with smbc, cover in fondant, and decorate them one day ahead of an event, at room temperature. I live in CT and the weather is getting cooler, so heat and humidity shouldnt be an issue any longer. This is my biggest issue-i have refrigerated fondant covered cakes that were filled with smbc and added gumpaste decorations the day of delivery, at room temperature, but it is getting increasingly hard to do that. I have two small boys and really only have nights to work on my cakes. Thanks! ps-love your book :)

Hector
09/15/2007 11:26 PM

Tracey... beautiful!

Rose
09/15/2007 01:30 PM

tracey, thanks for sharing your beautiful cakes. i too loved the peter rabbit cake (did you all see the new beatrix potter movie?--very moving). and i loved the use of blueberries--then discovered you are from ME.--land of marvelous blueberries.
futtercream--great descriptive name!

Jeannette
09/15/2007 11:34 AM

I have just had a peek at your BEAUTIFUL cakes , Tracey, you should be very proud of those, I particularly liked your Peter Rabbit cake as I live not too far from The Lake District where the stories originated, and I have books and figurines of the subjects you have on your cake I notice you live in a lovely area of the States too, we holidayed there 10 years ago to see the Fall colours and it was beautiful.

Matthew
09/15/2007 11:29 AM

Your cakes are beautiful Tracey!

Rozanne
09/15/2007 11:29 AM

Tracey, I love your cakes. Specially the wedding cakes with the basket weave.

Tracey
09/15/2007 10:24 AM

A belated thanks to all who wrote in re: my question about "buttercream" with no butter (for a "vegan" who's OK with eggs, but no cream, milk, butter, etc).

I used half Crisco and half Soy Garden butter-substitute to replace the butter in Rose's tried & true Neoclassic buttercream (a recipe I adore, and which has served me well through many a cake!).

The results were dreadful, not surprisingly. The overwhelming artificial butter flavor made me glad that I used half Crisco. The texture would have to be described as pourable, rather than pipe-able. I added in quite a bit of powdered sugar to offset the nasty taste and to thicken the frosting.

In the end, I used the "futtercream" (fake buttercream), as they had specifically requested a Soy Garden buttercream, but had to keep the sheet cake in the pan (frosting too runny for stand-alone) and topped the cake instead with rolled fondant and silk flowers surrounding a lamininated glossy photo clip suitable for a baby shower, and personalized for the event. Not a shining moment!

I will stick with Rose's philosophy from now on. I'm happy to make a cake for a customer the best way I know how (with natural, top-quality ingredients) but will regretfully have to decline any requests for anything else -- even for a close acquaintance, as this was.

Thanks again for all your input. Some of my much more successful cakes -- ALL THANKS TO ROSE'S WONDERFUL BOOK! -- can be viewed here, if anyone's interested: http://www.wingshillinn.com/dining/baking-and-delivery/

Cathy
09/15/2007 09:47 AM

Hector, once again, thank you. This is extremely helpful and answers all my questions. I plan to do it today and will let you know how it goes!

Hector
09/15/2007 04:37 AM

Cathy, let me tell you, tonight I've opened a jar and it was eaten half empty! Who would think that jam can be eaten with your dinner bread! People said the taste was pure, simple, you could taste the fruit.

answering: (1) this is usually traces of fat or protein as if you would be boiling bones and vegetables to make stock. Use a slotted skimmer. (2) be sure to not screw the caps tight, Ball recommends just two-fingertip tight or as much as you can tighten with the strength of your your thumb and index fingers, 10 minutes starts when the water boils and with the jars in. (3) remove the rings and lift the jars by holding the lid, if the lid doesn't come out or if you try to detach them with your fingertips then it is a good seal, thus the lid would come off only if you pop them out with the edge of a spoon, also the center of the lid will be concave in, not popped out. (4) I've asked this question to myself over and over too until I found the answer, the lids are only fingertip tight, sealed enough for water not to come in at normal outside pressure, but inside as things heat up then things expand thus expanding pressure, the air is force out first since it is upright.

Cathy, you need to get the little paperback book from Ball called Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving. I got it after Rose told me that these questions are addressed in the book. Or, go to the Ball website, they have a pretty complete guide on what happens during canning.

Happy conserving a la Cordon Rose.

Cathy
09/15/2007 12:15 AM

Okay friends.....I got all the necessary equipment and can't wait to try the strawberry conserve. However, upon re-reading the recipe, I realize I have many (possibly embarrassingly simple) questions about preserves in general. The only exposure I have ever had to canning/preserves was when I was a little girl visiting relatives. And all I remember then was the smell of pickles filling the whole house. :)
Therefore, if you can patiently help me, I would be so grateful.

1) On page 333, Rose mentions to skim the white foam from the surface. What causes this white foam? What is this? What kind of tool can you use to skim it off?

2) When you put the jars (with caps screwed on) into the water bath, covered, Rose says, "for 10 minutes after the water comes to a boil." Does this mean the water will continue to boil with jars in the water bath?

3) Rose says, "Remove and allow to cool before checking the seal." How do I check the seal? What would it be like if it is right? (I know I am displaying pure ignorance here!)

4) On pp. 334 top--Is this paragraph describing what is going on during the process? She says, "They must be upright to expel any air inside the jars, producing a vacuum which seals the jar." If this is in fact describing the process on the previous page, I thought the jars were "sealed" because the lids are already on while in the water bath. If the jars have the lids on...how do they expel air with the lid on?

Again, thank you for being patient with me! I know most, if not all, of these questions are pretty simplistic for those of you who have done this.

Patrincia
09/11/2007 09:47 PM

Cathy - do report back on your preference re conserve vs puree.

Elicia
09/11/2007 08:26 PM

Puree gives a smooth even texture, but I like to add conserve for a nice 'organic' feel. It works the same!

Hector
09/11/2007 04:48 PM

Cathy, absolutely!

Cathy
09/11/2007 04:33 PM

Thank you both! I look forward to trying the conserve. I do like the puree added as well, but want to taste the difference between the two.

I just ordered the wild strawberry essence from La Cuisine to add to it. Do you use it in the conserve as well, Hector?

I'll let you know how it goes!

Patrincia
09/11/2007 03:26 PM

I haven't tried the conserves yet. I do like the smooth texture and even color the strawberry and raspberry purees add to buttercream. I first added them to the neoclassic buttercream, which tasted wonderful, but the color was a little peachy becuase that buttercream is kind of yellowish. Then I added the purees to the whiter mousseline buttercream and found heaven... the color and flavor is amazing!

Hector
09/11/2007 03:00 PM

u r correct! I used the proportions for the Silk Meringue Buttercream. 1/2 cup conserve for 4 cups of buttercream (page 243). It worked wonderful with the mousseline buttercream. By the way, I do add the full amount of liquor, so this buttercream is thinner than without.

Patrincia
09/11/2007 02:43 PM

Hector - are you sure you mean Conserve? My copy says you can add 3/4 cup strawberry or Raspberry Puree into the mousseline buttercream recipe.

Hector
09/11/2007 02:02 PM

Cathy, I follow the amount indicated under in TCB. At the end of the MOusseline Buttercream recipe it tells you how much conserve to use.

The strawberry conserve comes out lumpy, almost with whole strawberries. It is up to you if you want to puree it or run it thru a strainer, prior to canning, or at the time of mixing with the buttercream.

I LOVE the Mousseline Buttercream with any Cordon Rose conserve!

Cathy
09/11/2007 10:52 AM

Hector, When you use Cordon Rose Conserves (I'm going to try the strawberry) to mix into the buttercream (Mousseline), how much do you mix in?

Also, in the process of the conserves, do I puree at any time? Or are the conserves lumpy thus making the buttercream with conserves lumpy? (Actually I like texture!) This will be my first time canning/with conserves--so all of it is completely new. Have been reading everything written here for tips!

Patrincia
09/11/2007 08:40 AM

Yvonne - yes you can decorate with the mousseline buttercream. You can find the recipe in The Cake Bible by Rose Levy Beranbaum (check your local library).

Hector - I'm going to guess 'Mousseline Buttercream' is Rose's way of dressing up the words 'Italian Meringue Buttercream'. (am I right?)

yvonne arencibia
09/11/2007 06:40 AM

Would you pls. give me the mousseline buttercream recipe, can I decorate the cake with this cream?.

Hector
09/11/2007 04:31 AM

Oh Elicia, I've just read a bit behind and realize you now LOVE the mousseline with raspberry!

Hector
09/11/2007 04:29 AM

Rose, are you the inventor of Mousseline Buttercream? What is the history of this name?

Elicia, YOU NEED to try this buttercream with Cordon Rose Raspberry Conserve, or the Dark Chocolate variation. These ARE THE BEST! I've just came back from a last minute gathering at a local restaurant, and I brough a small wreath of my rose 'cupcakes' that I had frozen. What a easy way to get attention!

Elicia
09/10/2007 10:48 PM

Oh Rose, fruit buttercreams are unheard of here, although many wld do fruit whipped cream! Local buttercreams are basically sweet - vanilla, choc, coffee, pink (strawberry without strawberry flavour!) - and the choc and coffee uses artificial flavourings with a terrible aftertaste! The commercial buttercreams are also greasy (too much shortening?)!

I have a hot and humid kitchen but have never experienced any problems with mousseline. Your instructions are perfect to a tee - and I have to say that beating the butter at the beginning helps! Rebeating is also so easy unlike some other recipes that I have which do not retain the same consistency after thawing!

Even when sitting at room temp, the mousseline holds it's shape very well despite gg very soft. And, it's just the right amt of sweetness.

Rose
09/10/2007 10:40 PM

see why the new book is going to be called "rose's heavenly cakes"? heavenly is the word that best describes delicious desserts.
it's so gratifying to see all these ppl making mousseline when in the past i got notes about how it didn't work and curdled! it just killed me bc i knew how wonderful it was and how temperature sensitive and tempormental it could be.

Elicia
09/10/2007 10:07 PM

Oh Hector, I seem to just hit a stroke of business luck! I've always gotten some requests far and between, and mostly from friends and ex-colleagues. Somehow, it seems to have built-up a bit lately - maybe thks to the 'complimentary' cakes I made now and then for my hubby's clients and my friends!

Am particularly excited abt this one project that requires cupcakes for a particular product launch. I'm working on the flavours and look of the cupcakes to match the concept of the product (it's a fragrance) - the customer was quite impressed with the suggestions. The cakes will be given to prominent people from the press and that may be really good for me!

I also realised I have to revise my pricing - have been charging customers way too little compared to other homebakers.

And Hector, I've been really inspired by your insistence of using natural flavours, and I've decided to join the boat - will make that a sell-point for my cakes, ie to use natural flavours and colouring wherever possible.

And Rose, I just made another batch of mousseline flavoured with raspberry conserve and GM - hmmm... just so heavenly! Thks for the great recipes - buttercream never tasted better! Also, I think mousseline is just so easy to whip up compared to some other more complex recipes I have!

Elicia
09/10/2007 09:57 PM

Well, the average bakeries here all have that identical flavour in their cakes, and anyone who loves cakes shld be able to tell. It's a lot harder though, to tell when tasting cakes from more upmarket bakeries. I think sometimes we also think we can tell the diff but we may have been swayed by the image of the bakery rather than the taste of the product (eg a bakery boasting 'homebaked' goodness may seem more 'homebaked'!) - especially if the marketing and packaging of the product seems all rustic and homey!

Hector
09/10/2007 04:40 PM

In college, I never finished my double major in Photography because I got flunked from junior portfolio review. I put so much effort to put together my portfolio, and it was totally original and creative, but the reviewers said “too much techniques and technology, but too little or none subject.” This was about 1 decade ago. I did accomplish one thing: even today everyone at that college remembers my portfolio!

Patrincia, often I wouln't be able to tell what is home-scratch from commercial, by just looking or tasting a cake with emulsifiers. There are a few commercial bakeries out there that do scratch, and a few home bakes out there who bake with commercial batters! At one point, I made a cake by buying all the layers cakes already made, shipped frozen from some factory! I do now bake and make everything from scratch, but I do use a lot of freezing!

Rose
09/10/2007 01:48 PM

and some people THINK they can tell and are mistaken! i'll always remember an art teacher looking at my portfolio and accusing me of "copying." i told her which i had indeed copied and which came out of my imagination and she didn't believe me!

Patrincia
09/10/2007 01:39 PM

Hi Juliana - sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you liked the taste of cakes made with emulsifiers/stabilizers because of the following statement:

"Cakes that are baked with these stabilizers have small and even crumb, and are soft and spongy.... ...Also, they don't seem to have a bitter aftertaste as compared to those from cake mixes..."

Personally, I think cake mixes that contain stabilizers have an inferior crumb to the scratch recipes from the cake bible, which do not contain stabilizers.

So I guess my answer to your questions remains the same - some people can tell and some cannot.

Juliana
09/10/2007 01:27 PM

Patrincia, I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I like the taste of cakes baked with emulsifiers.

Not all stabilizer/emulsifier-based cakes have a bitter aftertaste, and perhaps with time, one really good stabilizer/emulsifier will be invented (or has already been invented?) that will be able to impress die-hard scratch/homemade-cake fans as much as Cobasan has done for cream users.

The only thing that appeals to me for stabilizer-based cakes is the appearance. Afterall, they are designed to make the cake look, feel, and keep perfect --- the smooth, even crumb and the soft texture and the longer shelf-life. Also, as Elicia has mentioned, which I totally agree, anyone can make a perfect cake using these because they make the batter very stable, and hence, difficult to deflate. It's like a cheat ingredient for successful baking. You can literally let your batter wait to be baked.

By the way, some people may argue that baking powder and baking soda are also cheat ingredients and cakes made with them are not totally scratch cakes. Just like for bitter-tasting emulsifiers, aluminium-based baking powders do have a distinctive taste, and now that non aluminium-based baking powders have emerged, one day the non bitter-tasting emulsifier might just be an essential tool in the home baker’s kitchen.

I agree that homemade cakes are better, but it's not just the taste that makes me say that, afterall not all emulsified cakes taste bitter.

I can't talk about freshness either because both commercial cakes and homemade cakes can be stored in the freezer before frosting. The TCB mentions that some unfrosted cakes can be stored in the freezer for as long as 2 months.

I learnt how to bake home-made cakes before I knew cake mixes existed. To me, I appreciate the effort that goes into making a homemade cake. It makes the gift of the cake more meaningful.

Without a stabilizer, homemade cake batters are more fragile, so we need to pay attention to the mixing and the folding of the ingredients. So a person who gives a not-so-perfect homemade cake would still have put a lot of heart and soul into making it.

But still, my question is, can we always tell if a cake is homemade or not? Hector and Elicia, since you have tasted different types of emulsifier-based cakes before, and since Elicia has successfully made 1" sponges with smooth, even crumb, can you both tell if a perfectly-made cake is homemade or not? I wonder how the host of the show did.

Hector
09/10/2007 01:20 PM

Elicia, you go! sounds like you have a great business.

Elicia
09/09/2007 10:28 PM

The ovalette/sponge emulsifier does produce a very fine-grained, smooth sponge/genoise. I have been trying to emulate it without the emulsifier, and have come close only when the genoise is baked in a 1" sheet, with very little flour and a combination of whole eggs and yolks. There is a sense of satisfaction I guess!

Commercial bakeries use it because just abt anyone can mix the batter as it will not deflate whatsoever! I've managed to achieve 100% success with genoise containing lots of egg yolks and butter (means no deflating whatsoever) by using Rose's methods - a large balloon whisk (in this case, my Kenwood mixer whisk) and melted clarified butter kept slightly warm.

Same goes for choc emulco - it produces a dark and very moist choc cake that's difficult to emulate. This one, however, has a bitter aftertaste in my opinion. I can get close results by combining cocoa powder and choc in the recipe - close and still testing...

I personally refuse to use these items as I want my cakes to have a homebaked character! To me, that's a sell-point when I promote my cakes to my customers! They know it will taste decidedly homemade, delicious, and have to be eaten fresh!

If I'm the customer buying from a homebaker, I don't expect the cakes to taste exactly like those from the bakeries, rather the cakes shld remind me somewhat of the old-fashioned cakes from my grandmom's kitchen!

Rose
09/09/2007 09:09 PM

well said hector!

Hector
09/09/2007 08:12 PM

Juliana, I think I know what you mean. I have these German friends who knows a lot about everything and about foods and pastries. One is a biochemist. I present them my best cakes and they say in between bites: add a drop of emulsifier to make the crumb "smooth" or "completelly perfect."

My personal taste is in favor with cakes w/o emulsifiers. Not only the bitter aftertaste, but I have learned to appreciate and enjoy chewing on the imperfections of a "crafted cake" done w/o emulsifiers by an artisan baker.

I have enjoyed wonderful and perhaps even superior commercial/emulsified cakes out there. But, one plus, when making pastries in small scale at home, are the other ingredients you add to your cakes can be better controlled and selected, for example using higher quality frostings, fruits from the season, well made jams, creams, etc.

One thing I tell you, when I taste commercially done chocolate cakes, nothing tops TBB's Triple Chocolate Cake. Chocolate cakes are very popular, and indeed chocolate is one of those ingredients were a bitter aftertaste can be desired (bitter chocolate) but often highly damaged with the addition of emulsifiers or other chemicals commonly used on chocolate baking.

Rose
09/09/2007 05:25 PM

engineers at proctor and gamble won patent awards for their emulsifiers so believe me if there were some that didn't have that offensive flavor they would have come up with them!
who knows what the future will bring but all i can tell you is that for now i have yet to discover such an animal!
actually that's not entirely true bc cobasan which i love so much for heavy cream is a stabilizer/emulsifier (i think the terms are synonomous) and gives no taste to the cream. but for cakes i don't know of any such thing.

Patrincia
09/09/2007 03:18 PM

I think some people will be able to tell the difference while others won't. Some people have a more developed "palette", or more sensitive taste buds, and they can easily taste things that others cannot.

If you don't mind the flavor of a cake made with the kind of stabilizers you mentioned, then great, but know that someone else's taste buds may not agree with yours. I know a few cake decorators who think cake mixes and shortening based frostings taste fabulous, while I think they taste absolutely disgusting! So I guess it all boils down to choosing what tastes good to you.

Juliana
09/09/2007 02:05 PM

Why would I want to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier one?

Because I wanted to compare 2 different scratch recipes, one made with emulsifiers, and one without. And I am not talking about comparing a scratch with a cake mix. I know what cake mixes taste like and, yes, Hector, I do bake cakes from scratch, including the cakes from TCB.

I wanted to know if I could tell whether all cakes that are good in appearance and taste are made with emulsifiers or not. Since Rose has mentioned that the bitter aftertaste is contributed by the emulsifier, then it doesn’t matter whether it is a scratch cake or from a cake mix.

Rose, can I ask if a cake stabilizer is actually an emulsifier, or if it has emulsifiers in it? In my country, and in several Asian countries, we can find cake stabilizers like “ovalette” or “SP stabilizer” in bakery supply stores. These are easily available to the public. Some people call them emulsifiers. That's why I am confused about whether they are emulsifiers at all or whether they have some emulsifiers in them. My questions from the previous entries were based on my confusion with these items. Could someone have come up with something that works like an emulsifier, but doesn’t have the bitter aftertaste? If these are totally unrelated to emulsifiers, then my questions in the previous entries can be ignored.

Cakes that are baked with these stabilizers have small and even crumb, and are soft and spongy. They have a longer shelf-life than ordinary cakes, especially good in a humid country like mine. Also, they don't seem to have a bitter aftertaste as compared to those from cake mixes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be so popular with the customers in bakeries and hotels.

You can say that the recipe is a scratch recipe because all ingredients are from scratch. We need to mix plain or cake flour, eggs, liquid, fat, sugar, etc.... like in a scratch recipe.
The percentage of stabilizer used is about 2% of the flour weight (if I remember correctly) and the percentage of the other ingredients used would be adjusted to factor-in the stabilizer.

Some time back, I watched a particular show on tv. Someone had made a cake for the host of the show and when the host tasted the cake, she could tell if it was home-made or not. I guess home-made cakes taste different from commercially-made cakes, but in what way? Afterall, commercially baked cakes are also made from scratch.

I suppose it must be related to this stabilizer thing. So if we have a well-made home-made cake (even crumb, soft, spongy, etc) and a commercially-made one, how do we tell the difference?

Andrea
09/07/2007 12:33 AM

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I converted all my recipes from volume to weight several months ago, and it has worked out very well for me. The conversion tables were the primary thing that drew me to the Cake Bible, and I immediately fell in love with this book. It has not left my counter since I got it, as I read through it daily.

I already made the Chocolate Mayonaise Cake several weeks ago, and I know that every other cake I attempt will come out perfectly as well.

I am definitely going to try the Golden Luxury Butter Cake in the next week, but I have one concern. I have been unable to find REAL White Chocolate. I keep finding the baker's white chocolate, which does not list cocoa butter as an ingredient. Should I be looking on the candy aisle instead of the baking section?

My true reluctance in letting go of the other recipe is that it is the only yellow cake I have ever made that my husband liked, and only with the pudding added (I made it once without the pudding, and he knew as soon as he tasted it). BTW, The pudding that I have been adding is the ready-to-eat kind you buy in the refrigerated section. It wasn't my first choice, but it made it easier to just use what I needed and not waste anything. Actually, when I first started trying to find out how to adjust my recipe "fix" it to his liking, I called some friends who went to culinary school. I thought that since pudding is primarily eggs, milk/cream, sugar and vanilla, they could suggest how much to adust these ingredients since they are already part of the recipe, but none of them seemed to know anything about scratch baking and it was they who told me to add the 6 oz cup of Jello pudding. In any case, it seems that this recipe is being retired in favor of more reliable recipes.

Oh, and Elicia, I love the Wilton's Cake Release. I used the wilton palm tree cake pan for that Choc Mayo Cake, and it came out beautifully, and so smoothe that I could see exactly where the lines were supposed to go for the decorations. Thank you for the encouragement to try this recipe, and the advice about the eggs is very helpful.

Elicia
09/06/2007 10:05 PM

Hi Andrea, All I can say is that the Golden Luxe Butter Cake was a real success for the 3D bear. I didn't use all yolks because Rose did advise that 3D cakes take longer to bake and you will have a darker crumb with yolks. I simply substituted 1 egg for every 2 yolks - you won't have a major problem with this substitution as the white choc tends to 'emulsify' the ingredients - the result is a lovely moist n fine crumb that looks dense but simply melts in the mouth!

Although I iced the cake with buttercream, I still brushed the cake with lemon juice laced syrup - the lemon brings out the unique flavour of the cake and cuts the sweetness a little.

As advised abv, do remember to wrap the pan with wet kitchen towels, shaping around the whole pan with foil - if not, the narrow areas (eg bear ears) will have a thick crust! I use Wilton's Cake Release to prep the pan - best ever release and crumb - I almost didn't want to frost the cake as it was so perfect!

I strongly urge you to try it!

nushera
09/06/2007 09:05 PM

Andrea, while following the 2-step method, r u weighing the ingredients or measuring by volume only? i faced the same problem as yours(partly soggy just above 1cm above the bottom; but rightly fluffy below and above that portion). what i have found is recipe of foam-type cake is more 'forgiving' than that of butter-cakes. you must weigh the ingredients to get them perfectly done. Hope this helps.
one more thing, pls start trying Rose's recipes (i'm sure your preference will GREET Rose's fav yellow cake which uses sour cream as well as butter and the cake's texture is unique: tender n fluffy but moist too)- incorporating pudding-mix will become a pre-rose chapter in yr baking history!

Patrincia
09/06/2007 08:39 PM

Juliana - I think you will find the differnces between a cake mix and a scratch recipe like one of Rose's are like night and day. Mixes definitely have a chemical flavor and bitter aftertaste, and I find they are not tender, but rather rubbery with rather large and uneven air holes. However, Rose's recipes are buttery sweet with no negative aftertaste, they have an excellent "fine" crumb with very small air holes, and they are melt in your mouth tender.

Rose
09/06/2007 05:19 PM

juliana, as i said, the bitter taste comes from the emulsifiers. if there are also preservatives they will contribute even more bitter taste.
these emusifiers are not available to the public so if you want to do a comparison, as i suggested: buy a cake mix, mix it, bake it, bake a cake of a similar type from scratch and then look at the crumb with a magnifier and taste them to compare them.

Hector
09/06/2007 03:14 PM

This topic comes handy! I've been asked to make a Dora The Explorer cake. Found this version, using the 3D panda bear, looks pretty good, like a baby Dora, perfect as this is a 1 year old birthday party, for 100 people (not 1000...) I will bake "Elicia's" Golden Luxury Butter cake.

HOWEVER, I am NOT looking forward to use all that food coloring on the Mousseline Buttercream, so that is still up for discussion. On the extreme end, I feel if you are going to make edible art (lots of hard cakes, 3d sculpting, fondant, sugar candy, and royal icing) you might as well just use the real plastic doll instead? I do admire the work of the sugar artist making edible art; it is a credit hard earned and can't be taken away even if not too edible.

Rozanne
09/06/2007 02:52 PM

Andrea, I have baked several 3D cakes using Rose's recipes from the Cake Bible and they have turned out really well. I have used the Chocolate Fudge cake (pg 60) and I know Elicia (a fellow blogger) has succesfully baked 3D cakes using Rose's Golden Luxury Butter cake (pg 48). Just remember to wrap the cake pans in wet paper towels and then in foil to prevent the sides of the cake from overbaking.
Yes, you can still use syrup if you are using buttercream to ice the cake.
Rozanne

Matthew
09/06/2007 02:49 PM

Andrea,
It was my impression that people who add pudding to cake do not make the pudding separately and stir it in, but rather combine the two dry mixes together. I can't say for sure because I've never tried it, but you might look around for recipes and see how this is handled. You should also search the blog for postings from Elicia on her 3D bear cake using Rose's recipes.

Andrea
09/06/2007 02:04 PM

the pudding idea came about because I was using a "Stand Up Teddy Bear" Cake Pan and I needed a denser cake. The instructions suggested using a "Pudding in the Mix" cake mix, but since I do scratch cakes only, and my husband was pushing me to add it, I did. He is so picky, and he really likes the way it comes out. No one else has noticed the undercooked layer, but it bothers me.

If I ditch the pudding and use syrup instead, it will not have the effect that he is looking for, nor will it be dense enough to use in the deeper cake pans, though I could use that for cakes that are not intended for him. Can you still do syrup if you are using buttercream to ice and decorate?

Also, in terms of changing the mixing method to the two-step, I made the same cake without the pudding, and it came out perfectly. I have also made several cinnamon coffee cakes with the converted mixing method, and they have come out fine, so I do not think the mixing is the primary issue, unless it is that I am underbeating???

I will definetly be trying many of the cakes in the Cake Bible, and will probably eventually abandon the other recipe in favor of those in the book.

Hector
09/06/2007 01:32 PM

Juliana, why would you want to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier recipe?

Yes, the crumb on an emulsifier recipe is different than a scratch one. The cake box / emulsifier recipes have a crumb that I call it "boring." It is even, plain, smooth, plastic, artificial, almost like biting into something non-living or into cake made of something synthetic?

It would be a hard comparison to do emulsifier vs scratch. The crumb from any type of cake is unique on its own, each different. There are many types of scratch cakes, each has its own crumb characteristics.

I encourage you to bake from scratch, and I hope you will agree that cakes from scratch to taste and feel better!

Hector
09/06/2007 01:23 PM

Andrea, I know you will not want to hear this, but I strongly encourage you to try one of Cake Bible's recipes! It is somehow confusing to use another recipe with the technique in Cake Bible. The chemical and physical reactions between the ingredients is well calculated in Cake Bible: sugar, flour, fats, liquid, you can't just use a recipe but change the mixing method and expect well results.

If I may, for your original recipe, to make it more moist, try adding syrup after baking it.

Andrea
09/06/2007 01:14 PM

I have a classic yellow (or white) cake recipe that I have been using for several years, and as it was the first one to ever work for me, and everyone I have made if for loves it, I am very reluctant to abandon it permanently for one of the great recipes in the Cake Bible. The problem with the cake is this... When I first made it, my husband suggested that it could be a bit moister and insisted that I add pudding into my batter. After reading everything I could find on this topic, which really didn't say much, I decided to just add a 6 oz cup of the prepared vanilla pudding to my recipe while I continued to try to figure it out. I would add it to the butter and sugar after they were creamed and before the dry ingredients and milk. This worked well, making the cake both moist and firm enough to use in some deeper shaped cake pans. Then I read about the 2 step method in the Cake Bible and decided to convert this recipe. The problem now is that there is a layer of undercooked batter just about a half inch from the bottom of the cake, and I think it is from this addition (though I could be wrong). I don't really know when to add the "extra" ingredient in the two step process. Right now I am wisking it in with the liquid before I add it to the dry ingredients. Perhaps a better question would be what I could use instead of the pudding that will give the same effect. I am not professionally trained, completely self-taught in the baking and decorating, and no one I know bakes except for those boxed mixes that I really dislike.

Any help is much appreciated.

Juliana Teo
09/06/2007 12:22 PM

But cake mixes don't usually just contain emulsifiers. They also have preservatives which may cause the bitter aftertaste, right?

Apart from taste, does the crumb look different?

I am curious to do a comparison myself but the problem is that I don't know how to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier one or vice versa.
Rose, can you help?
Thanks.

Rose
09/05/2007 01:39 PM

all you need to do is make a cake mix and a scratch cake and you'll know first hand that the one with emulsifiers has a bitter aftertaste.

Juliana
09/04/2007 11:52 AM

Does anyone know how to tell the difference (by looking and by tasting) between a cake that is made with emulsifiers and one that is not made with emulsifiers?

Patrincia
09/03/2007 11:18 AM

Hi Yvonne - your cake is definitely under baked. If your cake is browning too much before it's done baking try lowering your oven temp 25F, and extend the baking time. You might also try lowering your baking rack too.

Yvonne Arencibia
09/02/2007 09:36 PM

I would like to have your help. When I make a rum cake I always use selfrising flour, I follow the instruccions, and the cake raise pretty well, as soon I am taking from the oven it sank in the middle, or if I use a tookpick to see if is done, is like a souffle, sank inmediatly. Thank in advance.

Cathy
08/29/2007 01:02 PM

Thank you all so much. You have helped me tremendously as I think of this next creation. So many great ideas and suggestions....thank you!

Su Ching
08/28/2007 10:40 PM

Hi Cathy, just to share a bit from my experience, and whatever I can remember from Rose's book. Marzipan is usually put on the cake which has been frosted with (thin layer) buttercream, a thin smear of jam is put on, then the fondant is layed on top of it, because fondant doesn't stick very nicely to buttercream. This also helps the fondant achieve a more smooth, even look. In humid climates like mine here it seems to help fondant not to 'melt' from direct contact with moist cake or buttercream, so it can be made a little thinner.

To my feeling, the somewhat hardened sugar paste covering a cake seems much more unpleasant than fondant, which is at least chewy. I've tried adding lemon oil and white chocolate (inspired by Rose's dark chocolate fondant), which gives it a different dimension rather than simply 'sugar sugar sugar'. I suppose you could try playing around with different flavours like to that achieve something more tasty.

I've also tried covering a cake only with coloured marzipan and skipping fondant totally. But I found it harder to achieve a smooth look because it is less malleable than fondant (which goes around odd curves so well because it changes shape so nicely!), but maybe I had it too thin then. If it was a thicker maybe it would be nicer? Anyone with other comments?

About blue and red tongues, haha that's so funny... Hector is the expert on natural colouring that won't be so hideous! I think he's mentioned beets for red? Perhaps blueberries for blue?

Elicia
08/28/2007 10:27 PM

Pistachio paste will have a nice green hue - though not dark green.

If you have to use fondant, try flavouring them with those concentrated flavourings - they have everything from champagne, raspberry to creme de menthe! Or use Rose's recipe of replacing the water with orange flower water or rosewater - that provides a nice subtle flavour as well.

I also prefer not to wrap the cake with fondant - just use the sugar pastes for small decorative items. Buttercream and choc glazes are the best options to cover a non-refrigerated cake. Check out Rose's Creme Ivoire - a wonderful ivory white choc glaze/buttercream that is quite firm and provides a smooth surface for decorative work. Must use high quality white choc though!

nushera
08/28/2007 05:47 PM

Hector- for green tint: how abt the kiwi fruit, lime zest...

Cathy
08/28/2007 03:54 PM

Thank you, Hector. I knew I could count on you for some ideas apart from paste. :)

I really dislike fondant and never put it on my cakes b/c I have never found one that tastes good. I do use sugar dough for flowers and miniatures. I might need to cover a cake with something of the sort.

Can anyone tell me the different functions sugar dough/gumpaste, fondant and marzipan take?

I know sugar dough dries hard, but when it is put on a frosted cake while still pliable, it doesn't seem to get too hard. Would this work to cover an entire cake?

I am creating a sculpted flag and various others to make a big picture...and I don't want to give people blue & red tongues. :)

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with experience on these.

Hector
08/28/2007 01:38 PM

Cathy, in my experience, liquors don't have much tint. And I almost never use color paste.

Think of a fruit or vegetable that is very very green, run it thru a fruit juicer. Then reduce the liquid with some sugar (almost like making a jelly). I would try spinach, it is very green, and reduced with sugar will taste great! For red, you can use beats. For orange you can use carrots. Green grapas may do, too, as these reduce well into a jelly.

Cathy
08/28/2007 12:08 PM

I am trying to tint the Mousseline Buttercream a green w/o a lot of color paste. How would you do this?

I saw some green apple liquor in the store the other day? Any thoughts?

Cathy
08/28/2007 12:03 PM

Thank you Nushera and Patricia! I love the flower nail idea--it is hard to imagine that little flower nail would do such great things! :)

nushera
08/26/2007 07:32 PM

thank you, Patrincia. you are always a great source of ideas n suggestions.

Patrincia
08/26/2007 07:23 PM

Oh hi Nushera! I've known about the waxed paper technique (and the tape on the back of the ribbon technique too - yuck). I haven't tried coating the ribbon with the waxed paper myself, but from what I've read, some say it works great while others say there is still some grease absorbed along the edges of the ribbon or the waxed paper only works for a short time before it breaks down. I guess I'll have to give it a try on a family cake one of these days. I think the best suggestion I've seen so far is to coat the ribbon with a flavorless oil and then blot away the excess before placing it on the cake. Also, making "ribbons" out of colored fondant seems to be another good option.

By the way, great tip about the flower nail - I had completely forgotten all about that one.

nushera
08/26/2007 07:04 PM

Veronica- thanks a lot.

Cathy- u can try using a flower-nail(metal one), sprayed and flat-side-down, in the middle of the batter. it works amazingly, sp in butter cakes. u will get the middle and the sides done nearly at the same time!

Patrincia- i've just read something on using ribbons in decorating iced cakes that i want to share with u. to prevent the ribbon from picking up grease from the cake and become discolored, the back of the ribbon can be lined with waxed paper. to do this, use a warm iron to bond the paper to the back of the ribbon. isnt it easy?

Cathy
08/25/2007 01:43 PM

Thanks Patricia. I love those baking strips.

Patrincia
08/25/2007 12:49 PM

Not really - but I wouldn't try baking a cake that large without using insulated baking strips around the pan (be sure to soak them very well first). Also, the proper oven temperature is so important - if you don't already have one, a good oven thermometer is a must!

Cathy
08/25/2007 12:48 AM

Thank you, Patricia. I so appreciate it! When you did it without, did you have to do anything special?

Patrincia
08/24/2007 09:05 PM

Hi Cathy - yes, the baking core and heating core are the same. I think I've read that heating cores should be used for cakes 12" in diameter or larger, but I've successfully baked up to a 14" cake without using one.

You start by preparing the heating core the same way you prepare the cake pan, fill the cake pan with batter, put the heating core in the middle with the open end up, fill the core with enough batter to fill the core to the same height as the batter in the pan, then bake as usual. When done, remove the little cake from the core and pop it into the hole in your cake.

Cathy
08/24/2007 06:51 PM

Is there a rule-of-thumb concerning when to use a baking core? Is this the same as a heating core (CB p. 454)?

Is it used in larger cakes to make sure baking is even? If so, how large? 12"? 14"??

Veronica
08/24/2007 04:35 AM

Hi Nushera. I can't say I've had that happen to me (the colour spreading). All I do is I colour a small amount of buttercream with wilton icing colour. I coat the inside of the piping bag with thin coat of the coloured buttercream and then fill the middle of the piping bag with the white buttercream. Star nozzle on the piping bag and your off. Simple and quick to do but I think it looks really pretty.

nushera
08/24/2007 03:30 AM

Veronica, your cakes are lovely and cute. could u pls tell me abt the piping trick in Lidya7-Bee cake - how did you get the edges of the rosettes(or swirls?) distinctly tinted? i have tried it but it spreads like tie-dye!

Veronica
08/24/2007 02:47 AM

Thanks for looking and sharing Hector. I most certainly have tonnes to learn, but that's the fun of it. The dirty plates usually occurs when there is a knock on the door or there is someone tugging at me wanting something. So in the end I run out of time or I forget. The strawberry maria I did with a frozen wild berry mix. I couldn't get fresh or frozen strawberries when I did the cake. The recipy also asks for a Genoise au chocolat, but I wasn't brave enough to attempt it so I ended up doing the chocolate torte on pg 56. I ended up with puree left over and so I drizzled it over the cake. It was delicious. With every cake I do I always learn something for next time.

Hector
08/24/2007 02:13 AM

Veronica, your cakes look delicious and I am certain your family were very happy. Your bees are perfect!

There are a few tricks you can still learn, feel free to ask, and I will share all my secrets (which are far from everything and all the knowledge we pull together on this blog!)

One I can share with you is that to keep your cake platters clean, don't forget to use strips of parchment, foil, or plastic wrap when frosting, snd then slipping them out when done. small suggestion from watching one of your 'dirty plates' buy I think you may just have forgotten since most of your other cakes look clean!

You have inspired me with Strawberry Maria. "Your" version really intrigued me until I've read your comments on what it was. I have always wanted to do it, but it will need to wait since I am about 2.5 cakes behind on my schedule!

Good luck with your son's funny video show entry!

Veronica
08/23/2007 11:15 PM

Thank you all so much for looking and your comments. I only wish I'd captured my son with the bee on my video camera and sent it to the funny video show. Who knows!

Patrincia
08/23/2007 11:31 AM

Veronice - lovely cakes. I love the bee story too (sooo cute!). One word of caution if you should choose to make the buttercream with margarine - it's pretty hight in salt compared to unsalted butter, so maybe check the sodium content of a few differnt brands first. Also, stick margarine is slightly firmer than the tub variety.

Rose
08/23/2007 08:46 AM

if i don't stop looking at this blog my husband is goingn to leave on vacation without me! but i jsut have to say veronica that your bee story is hilarious and your cakes are adorable.

and cathy--keep up the good work!

Elicia
08/22/2007 11:55 PM

Cathy, your cakes are lovely and so thematic! Basketweaves are tedious to pipe... I salute your patience!

And Veronica - those are some pretty and creative cakes! Keep going!

Veronica
08/22/2007 10:58 PM

Tracey I can vouch for Su Ching's suggestion of using margarine for making buttercream instead of butter. I have made buttercream with both butter and margarine. The butter one is definately harder in consistency. The margarine one is softer. My daughter loves the buttercream with margarine so I always do her birthday cakes with it. Please have a look at the cake I make for her birthday. I made the bees from the cake bible. I tried bees but I think they came out more like bumble bees 51 in total. I think they looked real enough because my 2 yo son took one and threw it on the floor and stomped on it. He'd been stung before. I'd love everyone's opinion. Please be gentle with me though I'm merely an enthusiastic amateur who loves making cakes for family. Here's the link to my space. http://z1x2c3v4b5n6m7.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!4E90CD9DF0179897!416&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum

Patrincia
08/22/2007 07:30 PM

Yes, I have to admit I was beaming the entire day (I was so relieved that it turned out so well - it was my first wedding cake).

Cathy
08/22/2007 06:24 PM

It looks fantastic too, Patricia. Very nice! How fun to hear everyone go on over it!

Patrincia
08/22/2007 02:29 PM

Thanks Theresa!

Hi Cathy - The chocolate buttercream is quite a bit lighter in color than the ganache. I used semisweet chocolate for the ganache on the wedding cake shown in the link above. If dark is what you're after, go for the ganache (and it's way easier to make than buttercream too). By the way, the entire reception hall was completely filled with the aroma of chocolate (you should have heard the gasps as people walked through the doors! - even the chef came out of the kitchen to see what all the fuss was about).

Theresa
08/22/2007 01:23 PM

Dang - my links never work! Try this one: http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/03/i_received_this_lovely_not.html

Theresa
08/22/2007 01:21 PM

Cathy, check out Patrincia's wedding cake with ganache frosting! www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/03/i_received_this_lovely_not.html

Cathy
08/22/2007 12:54 PM

Thank you, Rose. That saves me quite a bit of time from experimenting!

Rose
08/22/2007 12:15 PM

cathy, if you want a dark choc. frosting ganache is it. the only way to make choc. buttercream that dark would be paste food color. i wouldn't go there!

Rose
08/22/2007 07:33 AM

veronica, i was offered the option of 'buttered' popcorn at the movies. with great excitement i asked "is it actually butter?" the girl asked her supervisor and came back with: "soy oil"! to which i said "then why don't you call it 'oiled popcorn.'(i'm sure it's bc no one would want it then)

Su Ching
08/22/2007 04:28 AM

Hi Tracey, I thought what a challenge you have on your hands! Out of curiosity I did a search and found this link: http://www.vegan-food.net/recipe/356/Chocolate-Cake-with-Chocolate-Icing/
The icing uses margarine and carob, which are all from plants. I suppose you could also try substituting butter with margarine in other recipes?
There were other sites that talked about using vegan cream cheese which is essentially firm silken tofu blended with other stuff to flavour it, it doesn't sound like a very firm mixture for piping but I guess you could always try it for fun? You never know what you could get! All the best.

Veronica
08/22/2007 12:22 AM

Tracey. I have to say I had a bit of a chuckle when you said "no butter buttercream". The only thing I can think of is Free Range Cows. Here in OZ we call it free range you refer to it as organic. In your post you said the person wanting the vegan cake didn't mind organic eggs. How about organic butter. Not sure if there is such a thing. In my mind a happy free roaming cow would produce organic milk to make organic butter. Perhaps you can be the one to come up with a fabulous recipy for no butter buttercream. You'll have to rename it of course, you can't call it buttercream if it doesn't contain butter. I have had to cater for a vegan an it is difficult because there is a lot they don't eat. Good luck

Cathy
08/21/2007 09:36 PM

Rose,

Your ganache's are wonderful, but I am wondering if there is a way to make your chocolate buttercream so that it ends up looking very dark. Is there a way I can use the Special Dark Cocoa? When I tried melted bittersweet at one point, it still was pretty light.

Cathy
08/21/2007 07:15 PM

Hector, thank you for your encouragement. Yes, it was all Mousseline--the crumb coat was Mousseline with Raspberry liquor so I was able to boost the raspberry flavor of the cake (the ras liquor also added in a wash for the All am choc cake). It wasn't too overpowering.

I made the head of the bassinet by carving 2 small almost square layers of the choc cake, then 4 arches from the four corners of a 9" round with raspberry mousseline filling in between. The arches sat up on top of the squares laterally and were stabilized with straws.

I think I might try stacking all the layers horizontally next time, however and carving the arches at the top next time. It will make the cut pieces look nicer when served.

I have to tell you...I just got word about 2 orders for parties--one with a congressman attending. Both cakes need to feed about 80-85 people. I am shaking in my boots with fear and excitement combined!

I was just adding it up....I'm thinking about some suggestions...if the cake is the main dessert, I should probably be more liberal with the portions. So what about 12, 9, and 6 inch 3 layer cakes? I calculated that this would feed approx 80. What do you think? Any suggestions?

Also, I don't know how many of you make sugar dough flowers, but I want to offer this to them, as I have learned how to do them and love the look. I know everyone is in a different part of the country/world(!) here, but just to give me an idea....how much do you charge per flower or nosegay?

Tracey
08/21/2007 06:58 PM

I know it won't actually be vegan -- that was her label, not mine. "My daughter's vegan ... but eggs are OK if they're organic, or at least local! Just no dairy." Her concern is no milk or butter at all. Not a problem with the cake -- I have a great recipe for chocolate cake that happens to be dairy-free. But the frosting is my concern. I told them I'd experiment, but that I couldn't guarantee taste or appearance if they really want me to use Soy Garden! Crisco is a good idea; I'll ask her, and give that a test run, too. I guess I was hoping against all hope and logic that someone would have a fabulous no butter "buttercream" recipe! Thanks.

Hector
08/21/2007 06:34 PM

Cathy, your pool and bassinet look wonderful. How did you make the roof of the bassinet? Your icing consistency looks PERFECT, was all that mousseline buttercream? Did you use fondant for some of the props? I bet you the weave took hours to make, and I hope your customer appreciated that!

On a conventional home oven (w/o convection and with bottom heating), lowering or rising your oven rack has DRAMATIC effects on cake baking, as you can see. At the same oven temperature, for the same cake and pan, you will get 3 very different results when baking on the middle rack vs a rack higher vs a rack lower. Higher means hotter because hot air accumulates, this seems contradictory since the heat comes from below! There are other factors like heat from the oven walls, baking stones, etc.

When you mention 'crack on top a the last 5 minutes' was that a dome? or just a crack? If it is only a crack w/o a dome, then I would say you have achieved oven perfection. A crack w/o a dome is most likely not due to improper oven temperature.

You can't lower the temperature 'too' much, it will affect cake texture. I haven't proven this, but the rule that works for me is "use as high oven temperature as you can that would not dome your cake"

I don't think you will find all answers to your oven questions, the most answers you will find with practice on your own oven and with different types of cakes. Just remember the principles of oven placing and temperature. You need to bake many times the same cake and the same cake pan on the same oven to find what temperature and time to use. Also rack placement if the center rack is not available.

Matthew
08/21/2007 06:25 PM

Tracey,
Well, it won't be vegan if you use eggs. Are you sure the reason for omitting the butter is so that it will be vegan? I think from the discussion on Lori's project, the best most of us will be able to tell you is to try a test batch and see how it works. Crisco is vegan, so I suppose that is another route you could explore.

Tracey
08/21/2007 06:16 PM

Oops -- I'm sorry to be such a newbie -- I think I posted this in the wrong place!! (Below Rose's lovely deer photo)

*******

Hi, Rose, et al! I, like others have mentioned, am so excited to be able to "chat" with such a wonderful expert.

Has anyone made a vegan "buttercream"? Organic eggs are OK, but no butter. The woman who wants the cake assures me that something called "Soy Garden" is a great all-around vegan substitute for butter. But she's never actually used it for a frosting, or even to bake with, so it should be interesting. I'll be doing a tester cake for their baby shower next month, but they'd like to do the same for the wedding cake next year.

She wants a traditional cake (i.e., piped decorations), and I have no idea yet how a frosting made with butter substitute will spread and pipe. I searched for "vegan" and know Lori's making a vegan wedding cake, but couldn't find any details. Any thoughts?

Thank you ... and also for such a great resource! Tracey

Rozanne
08/21/2007 03:45 PM

Great job Cathy!

Cathy
08/21/2007 01:31 PM

Baking strips--yes. They're wonderful. Again, thanks for the tip about size. I am not too worried about height with a regular cake. But when I'm sculpting, I just want to make sure it doesn't get absurd(!) :)

Rose
08/21/2007 01:22 PM

sure bake a little longer and protect top with foil.

Patrincia
08/21/2007 11:42 AM

Oh Cathy, are you using baking strips to insulate your cake pans when they're in the oven?

Patrincia
08/21/2007 11:40 AM

Hi Cathy - I do mostly round layers, and depending on how much of a hurry I'm in, I might split (torte) the layers, or I might not. If I do decide to split the layers, I will use a thinner layer of buttercream between each.

Also, I don't worry too much about exact height of my finished cake as much as I worry about making sure the individual layers are all the same height. My cakes tend to be somewhere around 4 or 4 1/2 inches tall when finished.

Cathy
08/21/2007 11:08 AM

Thanks everyone, you are too kind!

Rose, thank you for clarifying. In the future, if I have to choose between the sides shrinking back a bit and a little wet or crumbs on the toothpick (both happening at the same time), should I just bake a few mins. longer with foil on top of the cake?

Patricia, that is actually what I ended up doing with the swim meet cake! 2 layers were 1 1/4 high, then I added a third 1/2 sculpted layer on top. It did look great-height-wise, and probably fed 28-30 people in the end.

When you make your two-layer cakes for a 9X13, you make 2-1 1/4 layers, right? You don't just split one layer making the layers 3/4 inch each...? I like more cake than that; otherwise the filling/buttercream seems to overwhelm it. But the serving size of approx 20 for a 9X13 would reflect 2-1 1/4 layers....?

Patrincia
08/21/2007 09:05 AM

Great job Cathy!!! I especially love your swim meet cake!

To address your 2" high cake issue - why don't you just stick to the 1 1/4" layers you've already perfected, but bake 3 of them? A 3-layer cake is a little more impressive looking when sliced :)

Rose
08/21/2007 07:16 AM

cathy, a cake baked in a 2 inch high pan doesn't result in a 2 inch high baked cake--usually 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches. if you did 4 times the rose factor that's what you should have gotten. if you did the 3.5 x the rose factor you would get the 1 1/4 inches that you did get so sounds right.

Theresa
08/21/2007 07:02 AM

Wow! Fantastic job on the bassinet, Cathy!

nushera
08/21/2007 01:37 AM

Oh Cathy, your cakes look wonderful! i am sure they are yummy as well- as they followed Rose's recipes. cant imagine you too get problems like cracked top or wet bottom in yr cakes...

Cathy
08/21/2007 12:27 AM

Oh I forgot! Here is the picture of the baby bassinet I did last week for a shower. Thank you for all your tips and advice about how to transport, etc!
http://letemeatcakebycathy.blogspot.com/2007/08/bassinet-for-baby.html

Cathy
08/21/2007 12:20 AM

Thank you, Patricia for the serving info. That seems reasonable.

I just finished a Swim Meet cake for a lady, and it turned out great! Here is the link if you want to see. http://letemeatcakebycathy.blogspot.com/2007/08/swim-meet.html

When I went to put it all together, however, I realized that my 2 9X13 All-Am Choc cakes did not rise to the needed 2 inches each, but instead were only 1 1/4 inches each. I weighed the batter in each to be the maximum amount per Rose's chart. I weighed everything, including baking powder precisely. And the cakes tasted fantastic--texture good too. Do you think I should just adjust the batter to be a bit more in order to achieve the height I need?

Also, Hector you have tried to help me on this recently....I had to bake another layer since I last wrote. Before I did, I lowered the top rack one more notch to place it in the somewhat-lower center of my oven. Then I watched very closely. (This is the cake in which I put more batter in than what Rose suggests to see if I could get it to the height of 2 inches.) It did not crack on top at all until the last 5 minutes. It was just starting to separate from the sides (9X13) prior to taking it out. When I checked with a toothpick, the bottom part of the toothpick was still a little wet. And the sides of the cake were done, if not a bit too much. What do you think? Should I try lowering the temp to 325 and baking a little longer? (My pans are not dark coated.) Should I just put foil over the top for the last 5 minutes in the future? What might you suggest?

Patrincia
08/20/2007 09:53 AM

Ruth - why don't you suggest the rum be added to the buttercream instead of sprinkled on the cake?

Shuang - if I were you I would only bake one layer at a time. Rose suggests pouring unbaked batter directly into a prepared pan and store it in the refrigerator until you can bake it. This method is preffered over storing the unbaked batter in the refrigerator in the mixing bowl.

Shuang
08/20/2007 08:39 AM

I have a bit of a problem. My oven in the apartment is very small. It's certainly not the standard US size. So I can't fit 2 cake pans to bake at the same time for those layered cakes. But that's the standard size oven here in Singapore. Do I have a way to work around it? Can I put one pan on the upper rack and one on the lower rack? Thanks.

Ruth
08/19/2007 01:55 PM

A friend wants me to make her wedding (of which I have made many), but wants the yellow cake sprinkled with rum. I do not want the cake to be soggy or the tiers will not hold up. Should I use a spray bottle and spray the rum on the cake? Drizzle the rum on layers with a spoon? What do you suggest?

Rose
08/18/2007 08:49 AM

no! and also be careful to stay within the capacity of the scale.
hot atlanta? weirdly in hope it is 62 degrees inside the house--we had to turn on the furnace so what do you suppose i did at 8:00 this morning? start a baby no knead bread as turning on the oven will no longer be an endeavor in questionability!

Kyle
08/17/2007 05:46 PM

Rose, Would/should the tare funtion take the scale back to the first degree(1-50g for instance in your example) of accuracy. Greetings from HOT, HOT-lanta.
Kyle

Hector
08/17/2007 02:42 PM

OMG, Rose! thanks for the scale explanation!

Patrincia
08/17/2007 12:36 PM

By 8" cake I mean a two-layer cake.

Patrincia
08/17/2007 12:33 PM

Cathy - good quetion! You are right about the wedding cake portions being much smaller than typical dessert slices. The cake bible suggest an 8" cake can serve 35, but I would serve an 8" cake in my home to 12 people. So it seems reasonable to assume wedding cake portions are approx 3 times smaller than a standard non-wedding portions.

Cathy
08/17/2007 12:16 PM

Thanks Patricia for all your info and advice. Your answers were helpful and reassuring; I appreciate the time you took!

And Matthew--great news. I will look forward to launching into a genoise now!

Regarding serving sizes, I have seen Rose's chart for wedding serving sizes; however, I am wondering about non-wedding occasions. I don't want to be too skimpy with my serving sizes and wonder if there are standard servings per cup flour for regular events where the cake is the main dessert.

Matthew
08/17/2007 10:50 AM

Cathy,
I just wanted add that you don't need to wait for a stand mixer to make a g énoise, unless you're planning on making a huge batch. You can have success using a hand mixer.

Rose
08/17/2007 10:18 AM

melanie, it's in the cake bible wedding cake chapter and to determine the difference in square shapes see the pan sizes in the equipment chapter and you will have the exact formula.

Theresa
08/17/2007 10:05 AM

Rose, that is fascinating. Thank you for this explanation. I have had the same thing happen and thought there was something wrong with my scale - now I know why!

Rose
08/17/2007 09:41 AM

hector, about adding salt to things already in the bowl on the scale, it's important you, and everyone else, know that most scales are designed to have a smaller degree of accuracy at lower weights so if you already have lots of stuff in the bowl it will go into the next sector of accuracy for higher weights which is less precise. this is written on the box and reading materials that come with scales, for ex. it might say accurate to 1 grams with weights from 1 to 50 grams, accurage to 2 grams above that etc.

Patrincia
08/17/2007 01:48 AM

Hi Cathy - I've done a few wedding cakes and even more large, special occasion type cakes. I almost always use Rose's buttercake and buttercream recipes. Although the cake bible may suggest it, I don't think you necessarily need to have a cake come to room temperature for precisely 6 hours before cutting/serving. In my experience I think 1-3 hours is sufficient (smaller cakes need less time; larger or taller cakes need more time). Just be careful you don't try cutting a cake when the buttercream is too cold (firm) - it will crack like an ice covered lake.

I've refrigerated and frozen and/or refrozen batches of buttercream with no noticeable ill effects - I wouldn't go hog wild with this, but a time or two shouldn't be a problem. (btw, some recipes, like Rose's Strawberry Puree, can be frozen, thawed, and refrozen quite a few times without noticing any deterioration of flavors)

For storage at room temperature time on the various buttercream, I've always understood it to refer to freshly made, room temperature batches. If I were to take a bowl of chilled buttercream, or a chilled cake containing that same buttercream out of the refrigerator, I would assume it would have a longer "shelf life" so to speak. Actually, if you read the 3rd paragraph of page 357, you'll see, "a cake frosted and decorated with buttercream can be made 1 day ahead and left at cool room temperature (except for cheesecakes, which require refrigeration)".

Incidentally, for wedding cakes, I think the color and flavor of the mousseline buttercream is a much better choice than the classic or neo-classic buttercreams.

I agree with Hector that a cracked cake should taste okay, it just won't look quite as nice as you may have hoped it would. I will only put multiple pans in my oven if there is plenty of staggered space around each pan - I would not try 2 9x13s at the same time (not enough room for air circulation). Always avoid baking cakes too close to the top of the oven cavity - it's just too darn hot up there.

Oh, one more thing - I know you mentioned that you usually refrigerate unbaked batter, but did you happen to read Rose's suggestion in the cake bible about refrigerating that batter directly in the pan you plan to bake it in? If you follow that suggestion, you will get more "rise" than if you stored the unused batter in a bowl first and then poured it into the pan when you were ready to bake it.

Oh my it's late - happy baking!

Cathy
08/17/2007 12:04 AM

Interesting about the scale/salt. I had the same thing happen the other day with lemon zest. Nothing registered while I continued to zest away! I think you are right about that.

Do you need to worry about the layer baking underneath the upper rack layer in your oven in terms of the top of it getting done/browning correctly? I've had 2 9X13 cakes baking this way before (one on top the other directly below) and the one below it, of course did not brown at all on top. Does this matter?

I look forward to trying a genoise. I am currently saving for a standing mixer because I am still using only a handheld. As I have read about genoise in Rose's CB, I saw that one must mix for a long period, so I thought I should wait for the standing mixer for that. I am looking forward to genoise so I can finally use some of those great whipped cream fillings and frostings. I love the texture of those and would love to offer those to people.

By the way, I've been wanting to ask this question...(one of many to come I'm sure)...I love Mousseline Buttercream--the taste, texture, etc. is fantastic. But one of the best things about it is how long it can stay unrefrigerated! Especially considering butter cakes, which need to be out for 6 hours at room temp prior to serving (CB p. 536).

My question is, how do you use any other buttercream when preparing a wedding cake or big-project cake when those (Classic and Neoclassic) can only be out for 6 hours? It seems one would have no other choice than Mousseline since the butter cakes need to be out for at least 6 hours before serving. Just as soon as you are ready to serve, the Neoclassic needs to go back in...? Or do you just bake and put on the frosting the same day as delivery?

Also, when Rose states how long things should be stored--room temp, refrig, frozen--does that mean at one time? Or can you do it for several times w/o safety being a problem? For example, let's say I make some Mousseline one day, keep it out at room temp for 2 while working on a cake on and off, then refrig, then bring back out the next day for 2 more days....do you know what I mean? I just want to make sure I am doing it all exactly right--I would feel awful if I was responsible for someone getting sick!

I appreciate your encouragement with my home business. It is exciting and has happened pretty quickly. That is why I am all ears to hear from others, such as yourself, how all this is done with excellence. I am very grateful to Rose, The Cake Bible (which has revolutionized my cakes) and this blog, which puts me in contact with all of you.

Hector
08/16/2007 08:21 PM

Cathy, baking at home for business is the way to go! Good luck on your entrepreneurship.

I don't think cracked cakes affect taste, the most it does is leaving you with less cake 'cause you need to trim this off. The 'texture' on cracked cakes is a little different than on even baked cakes because either the baking powder was off or the temperature of the oven was too high. That's about it.

Something interesting happened to me last night as I was measuring 16 grams of salt for this bread I am preparing. I got a new salt grinder. I was grinding the salt directly on my bowl while measuring on my Soehnle Futura electronic scale. As I was grinding in more salt, I noticed that the grams increments was reading very slow on the scale and eventually it stopped registering even when grinding in more salt. So I kept grinding and grinding and grinding in more salt thus my bread is now a ball of salt.

My suspicion is that when measuring small amounts of grams or when adding small increments, the scale doesn't register well. Next time I will grind my salt ahead of time, gather it in a little bowl or bottle, and measure from here in scoops bigger than 1 gram increments. I think the salt was been added on the scale in such small 'dust' increments (less than 1 gram at a time), that the scale did not notice it! It would be a good idea to measure by volume first, then verify by weight on your scales when dealing with such small quantities.

No, it isn't a rule of thumb to bake only 1 layer at a time. But it would be the best and safest way! Once you master the temperature and heating flow of your oven you will learn by experience your limits and bake as many as it can fit! Write notes. In my case I can bake:

1- just one 9" round cake in the most mid rack.
2- two 9" round cakes side by side on a rack slightly above mid, plus 1 9" round cake in the middle of a rack below mid.
3- four 9" round cakes, two ea side by side per rack, with 2" clear spacing and dim convection turned on.
4- one giant 14" round cake alone in the middle.
5- etc, etc.

My 'rule of thumb' is that the worse place to bake is on the top rack (too hot), and you must always stay away by 2 inches or more from any oven wall (the walls burn). Baking on the bottom rack is acceptable.

To be honest with you, the main reason I prefer to bake genoise and biscuit is because you don't need to worry about baking powder!

Bake your life away.

Cathy
08/16/2007 07:36 PM

Hector,

I mean, do you think the baking/cakes cracked will affect the taste (not the wash).

Cathy
08/16/2007 06:33 PM

Hector,

I did weigh everything. And I think I did the calculations correct with the Rose Factor. I added 3 g baking powder to my batter prior to dispersing the final batter into my 2 6" rounds. I won't bake all of those layer together in the future. As a rule, do you just bake one layer/set of layers of same size at a time and leave the rest in the refrigerator until those are done?

A small home cake deco business has recently evolved for me, and I was baking these for some customers. I use a wash to moisten each cake. Do you think this will affect the taste of the cake adversely?

melanie
08/16/2007 06:01 PM

Hi Rose!
Do you have a good method of calculating how much cake to bake per number of servings needed? & how much different is it when a square is used? I need a three tiered square cake for 90 people.
Thanks!

Hector
08/16/2007 02:23 PM

Cathy, sorry to hear this. From what I read, baking all those layers together seems to have been a major factor, specially when you mention that the larger layer baked faster than the smaller layers! Cakes too close to the top of the oven will bake too fast. Cakes places too near any of the oven walls will get burned edges. Having a small convection fan helps me a lot when I bake multiple layers, but I never stuff my oven (when I do, I get similar results as you do). Since ALL your layers cracked on top, I think the measurement of baking powder was off. Did you weight?

Cathy
08/16/2007 01:32 PM

I just baked 2 6" rounds and 1 9X13 All-Amer Choc Butter cakes yesterday using the Rose Factor. My cakes cracked on top and the toothpick came out wet still after 35-40 mins for the 6". The 9X13 was done before the smaller ones (but still cracked).

Should I not have baked them at the same time? My oven temp was 350, and it has always been right in the past. I don't think I overmixed, either. Any ideas?

Cathy
08/12/2007 02:45 AM

The Baby Bassinet cake turned out beautifully and was successfully delivered without any problems thanks to many of you who helped me with some great tips! The base was made of White Velvet butter cake and orange buttercream filling and the head was Perfect All-Am Choc Cake with raspberry filling. Mousseline buttercream.

I thought I knew how to get a picture on here, but am having trouble. If I can figure it out, I will do it!

Thanks again!

Rose
08/10/2007 11:40 AM

wanda, if the cakes are taking 5 to 10 min. longer than i specified you need to turn the oven higher in order to achieve the ideal texture. if a cake sets more slowly it will be coarser and possibly fall in the middle.

Patrincia
08/10/2007 11:14 AM

Hi Theresa - You are FANTASTIC!!! How can I thank you for going through all that trouble? You definitely answered a lot of questions for me.

You're right about the King Arthur people prefer the Vikings, but I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that they sell them in their catalog? I don't doubt it's a fabulous mixer though - I just wish the attachments didn't sink so deep down into the bowl.

Thanks a gazillion for your super-sleuth reporting!!!

Theresa
08/10/2007 08:37 AM

Patrincia - reporting back on the 7-qt Viking...

I filled the bowl with first 4 qts, then 4 1/2 and then 5 qts of water, and put the flat beater on to account for displacement. (I felt like Rose doing her scientific research!) What I found was that 5 qts seemed to be about the maximum you would be able to use, as it brought the water to the top of the "business" part of the beater. (There was another 1/2" of clearance between the top of the business part and the metal flange or collar on the beater that sticks out to protect the connection to the mixer head.) There was about 2" of bowl unfilled with water; at that part of the bowl, each inch equated to a quart of water, so I think the bowl is indeed 7 qt, but you are correct that you wouldn't really be able to mix 7 qts of ingredients. (If that is not clear, just ask and I will explain better. I think I have now put everyone else to sleep...)

The beaters are stainless steel. The manual says you can hand wash them or put them in the dishwasher. I tend to wash the flat whisk and dough hook by hand; the whisk I put on the top rack of the dishwasher. My thinking is that I want to make sure there is absolutely no grease on the whisk and I trust the dishwasher more than myself to accomplish this.

I have not had the problem of the bowl screwing itself in too tightly when making bread. It doesn't actually screw in; there is a recessed area for the bowl with two metal tabs (one on each side). The bowl has two slots in it; you place it in the recessed area and then turn to lock it in place. I always use two hands to put it in and remove it. Maybe the person had it on too high a speed for the heavy bread dough? The manual seems to recommend speed 2 for bread; I've gone a little higher than that - to 4 or maybe a little above. I think the manufacturers like to cover themselves by being cautious; for instance, I have heard that the KitchenAid manual recommends a lower speed than Rose does for bread. That being said, I am probably a wimp about the speeds. The only thing I have used speed 12 on so far is a cake made with whipped cream instead of butter. (I only used speed 12 to whip the cream; normally I would use speed 5 or 6 for a standard butter cake.) I tried it twice; once with the whisk attachment and then a double batch with the flat beater. I was surprised that the flat beater did such a good job of whipping the cream; the cake came out very well. (Though I certainly missed Rose's detailed instructions, instead of not-so-helpful advice such as "beat until fluffy"!)

At the risk of rambling on and on, here are a few more thoughts:

I find the tilt head helpful as opposed to a crank, but if you like to use an ice bath or a hot water bath frequently, I think you would want a mixer with a crank.

Since the Viking is not as widely available as the KitchenAid, you probably won't be as able to get competitive prices on it or any attachments.

Also, there is one plastic piece on the mixer - it is a small disk underneath the bowl. It is the only plastic piece on the whole machine. It appears to be a piece that could be easily removed and replaced if needed; perhaps that's why they decided to make it out of plastic. I mention this because some people may find this objectionable. It does not show, however, with the bowl in place (which is how I store my mixer, rather than finding another place for that giant bowl!).

And finally, as I said, I do not bake nearly the volume as most of the other bloggers here, so it would be entirely fair to give my high opinion of this mixer less weight than that of someone who does tons of baking. I can only tell you that my experience has been very positive. And the King Arthur people are very high on them. (But they may have more of a bread than a cake perspective. It has performed well on my cakes, however.)

Hope this helps... I wish you were a little closer and could come check it out!

Su Ching
08/10/2007 12:33 AM

Hi everyone, talking about mixers, I'm wondering if anyone can give helpful comments. I have a Kenwood which houses 6.7L, which I think I overstrained using it to mix rolled fondant for wedding cakes. The motor finally gave out after months of strain and is under repair now. Anyone with experience doing fondant in a mixer? I can't imagine sweating it out over several kgs of fondant myself, but don't want my mixer to kick the bucket again!

Hector
08/09/2007 08:25 PM

Wanda, jackpot!

Wanda LaLoggia
08/09/2007 07:30 PM

Vicki, I had the same problem with the butter cakes and tried everything I could think of. It turned out to be oven temperature. I got several thermoters and discovered my oven was running too cold. For a 350 degree cake, I now turn my oven to 380 degrees and that seems to do the trick. (I also usually have to cook the cakes 5 - 10 minutes longer than the range in the cookbook. Hope that helps.

Wanda

Patrincia
08/09/2007 11:30 AM

Thanks Elicia - I learn something new each time I transport one. (wonder what I'll know 10 years from now?)

Elicia
08/08/2007 10:57 PM

Just an indication, the Kenwood 7qts can take up to 16egg whites. The beater heights are also adjustable. Over here, Kenwood is readily available and is actually cheaper than the KA. KA is more of a novelty mixer due to its retro design! We don't get the Vikings and Sunbeams etc. Sometimes, less choice equals less headaches in selection, haha!

Creme ivoire is a beautiful ivory colour, not white-white unfortunately!

Patrincia, that was some transporting tips! Thks!

Joan
08/08/2007 07:13 PM

These discussions about mixers are helping me so much in my decision about what I want/need and why! Thanks. joan

Patrincia
08/08/2007 07:06 PM

Thanks Theresa! Can't wait to hear back.

Re the attachments - can you tell me if the flat, whisk, and dough hooks are stainless, ceramic covered, aluminium, etc? Are they dishwasher safe?

Re the bowl - I read that mixing action of bread dough slapping against the bowl actually made the bowl "super" screwed tight to the base (hence the difficulty removing it). I take it you haven't had that problem?

I thought I read something somewhere about being able to adjust the beater height up/down on the KA too - anyone know about that?

Theresa
08/08/2007 06:59 PM

Hi, Patrincia - I haven't had a problem removing the bowl. (It turns to lock in place but, as it sits in an indentation of sorts, sometimes I think it would probably be just fine even if I didn't lock it.)

At the store where I bought it, the saleswoman said that I might need to adjust the beater down with a wrench if it was not quite touching the bottom of the bowl (a one time adjustment). The instruction booklet mentions how to do this. I did not find it necessary on mine, but thought I should mention it in the interest of full disclosure.

It came with the standard 3 beaters - flat, whisk and dough hook. The back of the unit has wheels, which make it easier to move underneath my cabinets for storage. It's heavy enough that the wheels don't cause it to move around when it is in use (at least in my experience).

I'm trying to visualize 7 qts of ingredients!!! (I'll bet Hector can!) Maybe I will pour 7 qts of water into it and see where it comes to with the beater on. I will report back...

Patrincia
08/08/2007 05:40 PM

Hi Vickie - it's been my experience that when a cake falls after being removed from the oven, the cake is not completely cooked in the center. Hope that helps!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 05:26 PM

Hi Cathy - you are most welcome - it's my pleasure to help!

Yes, I would keep the cake in a box to guard against accidental bumps/debris (like the time my dear hubby put my unboxed cake in his car trunk and a propped up floor mat fell onto it - thankfully the cold, hard buttercream made debris removal quick and easy). Good thing I like to refrigerate my cakes before I transport!

I too find boxes are usually too big to put in the fridge, so just before I'm ready to deliver, I open the top of the empty box and place it upside-down over my air-conditioner vent for a few minutes - it quickly makes the box nice and cold. Then I box up my cold cake, tape the box closed, and viola - I'm set to travel (cardboard is a pretty good insulator). Don't forget to turn on the air in your vehicle.

Oh yeah, I like to put the empty box on it's side and slide the cake in (flaps will open/close like doors) - be sure to tape the flaps closed so your cake doesn't accidentally fall out of the box :(.

PS - I don't have an additional fridge either, but I did get the largest side by side I could find for a reasonable price (it will fit up to a 16" tier on an 18" base if needed).

Cathy
08/08/2007 04:21 PM

Thank you, Patricia. Yes, I'm using straws to keep layers together. Your tips are great about transporting....if I do keep it out room temp for a day, I should keep it in the closed box, correct? I wish I could keep it refrigerated, but the box will not fit inside the frig. (I don't have a separate refrigerator.)

vickie chappell
08/08/2007 03:52 PM

I am using a commercial convection oven and my pound cakes bake beautiful but fall after I take them out. What can I do to stop this? Vickie

Patrincia
08/08/2007 03:38 PM

Oh thanks for writing Theresa - have you ever had trouble detaching the bowl from the mixer? Do you think the bowl can hold 7qts of ingredients?

Theresa
08/08/2007 03:28 PM

Patrincia, I actually do have the 7-quart Viking mixer and love it. I was nervous, too, because of a few bad reviews on epinions (there were also loads of bad reviews of the KitchenAids, FWIW). I think you have to go and look for yourself and talk to people, as you are doing. When I actually looked at the Viking, I could see that the attachments were heavier and better quality than the KitchenAid that I was considering. On the other hand, I got the biggie for breadmaking, and as you know have not baked nearly as many cakes as most of the people blogging here. I bake fairly often, but have never made a wedding cake, for instance. I have had a very good experience so far with the Viking - absolutely no problems - other than getting used to such a powerful mixer after my little Sunbeam (which I still have and use from time to time!). I've had my Viking for about a year now and am still in awe! :)

Patrincia
08/08/2007 01:16 PM

Hi Hector - yep, I had read some of the bad reviews for the Viking, but I was hoping someone here might have first hand knowledge.

Anyway, I will look at the Bosch and the Electrolux. There is a 7qt Delonghi that looks very similar to the Cuisinart too. I will probably get the 6qt KA, but the thought of a 7qt capacity bowl is preferable, if it actually will hold that much.

Re the Wolfgang Puck - don't poo-poo Mr Puck :) - I got a set of his pots and pans as a gift about 10 years ago - since then I've upgraded to All-Clad, but I'm not about to give my WP stuff away - it's really good for "aluminum-disk-base-covered-in-stainless" stuff. The only thing I didn't like about them was the aluminum rivets - they never caused me any trouble, I just didn't like the way they looked after going through the dishwasher.

Hector
08/08/2007 12:16 PM

I am a bit certain that customer service for KitchenAid mixers in the USA is great, you can just call them for anything and if anything is wrong within 1 year, you get a new mixer. Also, appliance repair shops are much more know knowledgeable with KA mixers, they are highly serviceable and replacement parts are readily available.

The 7 qt contenders are a temptation. I believe Viking receives constant bad reviews. Cuisinart seems promising. Kenwood is a long time standing tradition of quality, but on the commercial / higher price point. I don't think Wolfgang Puck designs his own mixers, it is just a generic appliance factory copying features from other mixer and slapping his name badge on it.

Check also Bosch and Electrolux.

In summary, for the cost/benefit analysis, get a KitchenAid or two! The refurbished models are a true savings, perhaps you can even get 3! That way you also have more than 1 set of bowls and beaters which is almost a necessity.

And if you are serious about large batches, get a Hobart. They have no competition.

Patrincia
08/08/2007 11:57 AM

Oops, forgot to mention you should place a sign in your rear window that says, "cake on board" - keep people from getting to angry with you when you drive slowly on certain road conditions.

How tall will your cake be? I would suggest using straws or dowels to keep your layers from sliding - especially if you plan to deliver the cake at room temp!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 11:53 AM

Yep - the cake really will stay "fresh" because the buttercream will seal the moisture in. The buttercreams are very stable unrefrigerated for the lengths of time Rose states. I like to transport cold though, because the buttercream is firm when cold - isn't as easily marred if accidentally bumped into. I always transport in a box - just another added layer of protection for your beautiful work of art. I would suggests a non-slip mat under the cake inside the box, and a non-slip on the car floor to place the box onto. If you are planning on traveling on a bumpy road, a piece of foam is a good "cushion" to rest the box on. If you do travel with a chilled cake, allow time for the cake to come to room temp before serving (2 hours or so).

I believe the Mousseline is whiter than the Creme Ivoire Deluxe - white chocolate is very creamy in color. The Mousseline is pretty white really.

Cathy
08/08/2007 11:27 AM

Thank you, Elicia & Patricia! I really appreciate your thoughts. I will look into the mixers you are talking about and am looking forward to hearing any more from anyone with experience with those...

I would love to try the Creme Ivoire Deluxe buttercream....is it whiter than the Mousseline? The part I mentioned that is Perfect Am Choc Cake with raspberry filling is the head. The base part of the bassinet is White Velvet Cake with orange buttercream filling/icing. Would this white choc go with orange as well?

I think I'm needing some reassurance here....I am creating this odd-shaped sculpted bassinet that I will be delivering to a baby shower on Friday, and I read in CB last night under wedding cakes that Rose says you can decorate the day before and keep at room temp until the time. I will have to store and deliver it in a box b/c of its shape/height. My question...will the cake really stay fresh? I can't stand the thought of this delicious creation becoming stale!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 10:47 AM

Rose also recently wrote about the new cuisinart 7qt mixer. I read a review online about how the attachments go way down into the bowl, which functionally, makes it not hold as many ingredients as the 7qt bowl capacity should be able to hold - I haven't tried it though, so I really don't know if this is really an issue or not. I'm almost 100% sure that I'll be adding a 6qt KitchenAid to the 5qt model I already have, but would like to hear more about the 7qt Cuisinart from anyone who has it. I'd like to hear anyone's opinion on the Viking stand mixer and the Wolfgang Puck mixer too - anyone have any thoughts to share?

Elicia
08/08/2007 10:26 AM

Hi Cathy, I've used the Wilton whitener before and I think it is best reserved for fondant/marzipan - I think it is really meant for whitening pale yellow or ivory buttercreams/fondant. You will need a lot of it for darker shades and it will definitely affect the texture, not to mention taste!

Try Rose's Creme Ivoire Deluxe buttercream - the white choc will go well with the raspberry - you will have to experiment as to whether it pipes basketweaves well - it is ok for simple piping like shell borders, and it is a fantastic glaze - almost fondant-like yet so delicious!

As for mixers - check out Kenwood - I have the 7quart which has a better capacity than KA. Not sure abt the price in US though! It has a tilt-back function and a deep bowl that is still good for small amounts. Rose has written a little abt it in the PPB I think!

Hector
08/07/2007 05:53 PM

anytime!

Cathy
08/07/2007 05:32 PM

Hector,

Again, thank you! That is what I wanted--your honest opinion--why give anything else? I think I will try the double coat and in the future plan a little better. I will be sure to send a picture when I'm finished--

Thanks again!

Hector
08/07/2007 05:14 PM

Cathy, I am going to share with you my most honest and personal point of view. You know I am the man who has spent the past 2 months developing natural fruit flavors and colors on mousseline buttercreams! for a big cake =)

So here it is: Absolutely NOT, meaning don't do that. The main character of raspberry is the intense red color, so attempting to bleach it will be unnatural and contradictory? Try using artificial raspberry flavor, uncolored, if you wish, and add a few drops of lemon juice... lemon enhances the flavor of raspberry without any coloring.

Alternatively, to achieve very white Mousseline Buttercream, I use vodka as a liquor, or white wine.

Another thing I often do, it is more work, but it pays off: Use double coat! Meaning, first you frost your cake with your wonderful natural colored and flavored buttercream, and then on top of that coat pipe 'white' buttercream. A darker coat under your basket weave may add a very nice 3D effect, almost like natural basket weave shadows if you look thru. I've made decadent chocolate cakes with chocolate frosting, hidden under white buttercream!

If available, share a picture of the baby shower bassinet. It sounds wild!

Cathy
08/07/2007 04:52 PM

Thank you Hector! I just made the Mousseline today for the second time, and it is wonderful! I used a raspberry liqueur and added a raspberry wash to the Perfect All-American Choc Butter Cake, and it tastes divine.

Can I ask you this....I am preparing a sculpted bassinet cake for a baby shower and it will have a white basket weave around the outside. Is there a way I can use the Raspberry Mouselline Buttercream and add a "whitening" product (I think Wilton has it) to make it white again? (It turned pinkish with the addition of the liqueur.) Will that whitening product mess up the Mouselline do you think?

Hector
08/07/2007 02:33 PM

Nushera, that is a great idea, to use coconut milk and dry shaved coconut in lieu of fresh.

Cathy, Kitchen Aid's biggest mixer is 6 qt, and that is much better appreciated than the 5 qt. There is no mixer of 10 qt capacity for under $500. You could perhaps get 2 mixers, 6 qt, and you will be surprised how practical it can be to have 2 mixers rather than just 1 big one. I have a 6qt and a 5 qt, plus a hand blender and a 11 cup food processor.

Hobart makes nice 20 qt mixers which you could fit a 10 qt bowl, too, but these run over $2000; I would get it if you can. If you have the Hobart, you still need the 'smaller' mixers (6qt or 5 qt) to mix smaller things, up to 11 cup frostings, creams, regular sized cakes, etc, these things would get lost in a big bowl and not mix well!

Rose's Mousseline Buttercream is the one that has the best consistency and shelf life for piping. It pipes like a dream and will stay put for 2 days at up to 90 degree weather, no piping gel or meringue powder needed (you actually make your own meringue in the recipe).

Cathy
08/07/2007 12:29 PM

Thank you, Matthew for that clarification.

Matthew
08/07/2007 01:53 AM

Cathy, re: Rose Factor, the 13x9 rectangle listing is for 1 pan, not 2. The batter weight column clarifies this: for 2 9x2 pans, the weight is 750 grams ea., and for the 13x9, the weight is 1500 grams.

Cathy
08/07/2007 12:05 AM

Hello, Rose. I am so grateful for your Cake Bible and all the work you have done to make it the best. I am in love with all your recipes, am the proud owner of a new MY WEIGH scale (thanks to this blog!) and am having the time of my life decorating cakes now! A small business has even evolved, and I owe much of my success to you! Thank you!

I have a couple of questions I'm wondering if you or others out there can answer....I worked out with the Rose Factor the formula/recipe for the White base cake with 2 9X2 rounds and 2 9X13 sheets. When I was calculating, I noticed that the Rose Factors for both of those were a 4 on the Master Chart (p. 490 in the 1988 version). I thought this was strange since the 9X13 seems so much bigger, but I went ahead and assumed there was a reason. Well, when I made the batter, it only ended up filling (1/2- 2/3 full) the two 9X13s and none of the 9X2 rounds. Am I missing something here? Should the Rose Factor be an 8 for th 9X13 pans or did I do something wrong?

Secondly, I am eager to graduate from a hand mixer to a standing, and want to buy something that could handle the volume of cakes I am making. I've been looking at the Kitchen Aid Professional models on ebay, but just reread your section in the CB about needing a 10-quart Hobart mixer in order to mix a single batter for several cakes at once. Does Kitchen Aid even carry a 10-quart? It looks like from their site that even the Professional models are just 5 quarts. I want to be able to mix many at once and freeze layers. What would you suggest for under $500?

Lastly, when I took the Wilton decorating class, they taught us to use different icing consistencies depending on the decoration. Do you need to be concerned with consistency when using the true buttercreams like yours? Does one need piping gel and meringue powder at all?

Thank you again. I couldn't be more grateful for sharing all your hard work to benefit the rest of us out here!

nushera
08/06/2007 11:40 PM

Kristine, if the recipe calls for freshly shredded coconut and u have to substitute with the packaged stuff, u can add a little coconut milk and leave for some time so the dry shredded/ grated/desiccated coconut can be moistened. but i am afraid flaked coconut wont be the right substitute.

Hector
08/06/2007 06:43 PM

Kristine,

Chocolate (squares, block) has sugar in often also milk, also cacao butter. Cocoa has no sugar or very little of it, no cacao butter, and most definitely no milk. There is a complete explanation on The Cake Bible, with possible interchangeable substitutes.

Your recipe with coconut should specify what to use, freshly shredded, dry grated, or flakes.

Regarding 'dutch' as far as I know, it needs to have the specific word 'processed': it needs to say 'dutch processed'

I am sorry, I am not a cocoa expert, I use mostly chocolate (blocks, squares).

kristine
08/06/2007 06:35 PM

hi! these are my questions:

will using cocoa powder and butter/oil (3:1) instead of chocolate squares alter the texture and taste of my cake in any way?

when a recipe calls for shredded coconut, does it mean fresh? can i use grated instead? what about flaked coconut? how is it different from grated coconut?

what is the difference between dutch cocoa and dutch processed cocoa?

Patrincia
08/05/2007 03:21 PM

One final thought to add to my post above - be sure to use a white muffin batter. If the batter is yellow (from egg yolks), the strawberry juice will turn the batter orange.

Patrincia
08/05/2007 02:18 PM

Hi dianna - I used to get these delicious strawberry muffins at a restaurant I used live near. When we moved away, I decided to try to recreate them myself - and I have to say, they turned out pretty darn good!

Basically what I did was substitute strawberries in a blueberry muffin recipe, but there's just a tiny bit more to it than that. Here's what I did - first, I chopped enough strawberries to equal the amount of blueberries called for in the original recipe, then I sprinkled the strawberries with 1-2 Tbsp. sugar, then stirred together and let them rest for 10-20 minutes until the berries were nice and "juicy", in the meantime I prepared the muffin batter, then I stirred in the berries (including the "juice"), which gave the batter a nice pink-streaked appearance. Then I filled my muffin tins and baked as directed in the recipe - they looked fun and they tasted delicious! Btw, I sprinkled coarse sugar on top of the muffins before baking (just like the restaurant did), but they could easily frosted with your favorite frosting - Rose's Vanilla Buttercream would be fantastic!

Rose
08/05/2007 09:05 AM

i'm afraid not. strawberries are mostly water and don't have the structure or fiber of bananas. make strawberry jam whipped cream or buttercream!

dianna
07/25/2007 02:37 PM

HI, i am sooo glad i found this blog. Almoust as glad as when i found the Cake Bible!! i have a daughter who has her heart set on a strawberry cake(with vanilla icing, mommy:D) but have been unable to find a recipe that i like. would i be able to switch strawberries for the bananas in your banana cake?

Joan
07/24/2007 08:06 PM

Hector: I can visualize me standing with hands in oven and hair sticking out all over head and body - yikes! I will keep on looking. Today I ordered a veg/fruit strainer for my 4.5 KA, so that should keep me occupied making buttercream for a while, and out of convection trouble. Thanks, as always! joan

Hector
07/24/2007 02:05 PM

Joan, you are welcome. I wish I could have given you a better answer, so I am still thinking about a good solution for you.

Perhaps you can get one of those inexpensive toaster ovens, but get a unit as large as you can find, like the ones with room for 3 shelves and 6-slice of toast. Then find a way to line the top and bottom of the oven cavity with quarry tiles leaving you enough room to put a cake in the middle with 2" clearance. Maybe you can use one shelf to put tiles on the top, and for the bottom rest the tiles directly on the heating element, and use the bottom shelf to put your cake. You may need to find or build your own shelf since these toasters normally come with only 1 shelf included It is very likelly there will not be enough room, so you may need to drill something to hang tiles on the top of the oven! Sometimes these toaster ovens have a heating element on the top a few inches away from the roof, so you may slide in between your tiles.

The tiles will give you very even heat distribution that you won't need to use the convection feature! The convection feature on these little toaster ovens is pretty much far from perfection.

Of course, what I am suggesting here may cause a risk of electrocution or fire, so please, be careful and don't quote me on this.

Good luck.

Joan
07/24/2007 10:10 AM

Thankd Hector. You are always so quick to respond and to help on any topic. I apreciate it so much. Will continue to research this now that I at least know what am looking for/not! Thanks, joan

Hector
07/24/2007 02:40 AM

Joan, the inexpensive convection ovens you refer to, I think are larger toaster ovens that claim to bake cakes. I do not recommend them.

Rose uses a countertop microwave oven, that has convection bake, and a turntable. The convection fan is very slow, you can't feel it. The primary reason of this oven is the turntable, which will bake your cakes amazingly even. It isn't inexpensive in my opinion, and it isn't that small. It is a very large countertop microwave oven (about 1.5 to 2.0 cubic feet), and it costs about $500.

If Rose is using a KitchenAid microwave convection oven, KA only makes them as built in ovens. About 2.0 cubic feet and $1000. They have the turntable.

Keep on searching and keep me posted of specific models.

Joan
07/23/2007 09:50 PM

Hi all - I would like to know if anyone can recommend a small [not pricey] convection oven? I have managed to locate several, but then occurred to me that I really don't know the qualities I am looking for/or not. I remember reading Rose commenting on huge fans in one that blew the product into the faces of the visitors when the door was opened. Thanks for your help.

Rose
07/23/2007 09:11 PM

do a search on the blog for cake strips to see how to make your own. and when using black pans bake at 25 degree F. lower temperature.

Carol Morris
07/23/2007 07:29 PM

I'm enjoying reading your blog! My daughter have a very small cake business and are currently using one standard oven to accomplish this. I need to purchase a double oven so that we can get more cakes done faster. Does anyone have any recommendations on brands, styles etc...no high end ones please...we're just starting out. Thanks Carol

Kyle
07/23/2007 05:16 PM

Reynel,
In my opinion,
www.bookfinder4u.com
is the absolute best site to search for books online. It lists from cheapest to most expensive and includes websites from all over the world. It also has a 'wish list' feature, allowing you to keep up with books you would like to purchase in the future. I have found it very useful to locate out of print books.
K

Reynel
07/23/2007 02:43 PM

Hi Rose and everybody else.

Your book "The Cake Bible" is what I was always looking for although I only realised that when I found it on my boss's bookshelf!

I have a few questions.

1. I want my own copies of your books, but can't find them in South Africa. Where (online) can I find the most recent, most revised copies of "The Cake Bible" and "The Bread Bible"? I am worried that some sites online will only have earlier versions of the abovementioned books. What should I ask for or look for? What year, etc.

2. I have made the Chocolate Fudge cake, but could not find tins with measurements 23cm x 4cm. Most of the tins available in South Africa are 8 cm deep and from what I have read the height of a tin is important to produce a good cake. Could you suggest seeing that I can only obtain tins of 8cm deep how I should adjust your recipe. Alternatively, can I enquire from you where I can get the correct tins.

3. At the moment I bake mostly birthday cakes and use a rectangular tin (23cm x 33cm) a lot which is not an alluminium tin and which is black. This is the only tin of this measurements and shape that I can find. Will it help to slow down the absorbtion of heat if I cover the outside of the tin with heavy alluminium foil using the shiny side on the inside and the dull side on the outside.

I will appreciate your reply.

Thanking u for your assistance.

Kind regards
Reynel Kruger

Rose
07/22/2007 09:01 AM

hector, it is a dream cake unlike any other.
juliana, matzo is made with flour but is permissible for passover due to certain blessings. so indeed a cake made with it is 'flourless' only in the passover sense but not in the literal sense!

Juliana
07/22/2007 07:24 AM

Thanks Rozanne. Can you tell me what kind of flour is used in matzo because I read somewhere that it can be used to make Flourless Vanilla Sponge Cake. If it uses wheat flour, then it can't be called "flourless".

Hector
07/21/2007 10:41 PM

Regarding Absolutely Delicheeous, here is another for you Rose!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Lichee4Rose.html

Rose
07/18/2007 02:34 PM

angela, follow the instructions to the letter. if you're getting little bits of flour not mixed in i know you're not bc i addressed this. you have to reach to the bottom with your FINGERS.
i don't know what kind of flour you're using, or how you're measuring or weighing it so it's up to you to follow the directions that i very carefully set out.

Rozanne
07/16/2007 12:13 PM

Juliana, Matzo is a brittle, thin unleavened bread. Traditionally it is made of flour and water only. Ground matzo is called matzo meal.
Rozanne

Rozanne
07/16/2007 12:11 PM

Juliana, Matzo is a thin unleavened bread. Traditionally it is made of flour and water only. Ground matzo is called matzo meal.
Rozanne

Juliana
07/16/2007 11:04 AM

Hi Rose,

What is matzo meal and what is it made up of?

Angela
07/15/2007 06:07 PM

Hi Rose. I've been having so much trouble with the classique genoise cake. You said that it's almost impossible to overwhip, but mine keeps sinking in the middle. And if I get it right, it's too dense on the bottom, with little bits of flour not completely mixed in. Please help! I'm at my wits end with this cake!
Thank you, Angela

Hector
07/14/2007 07:32 PM

Cathy, I third the motion, whipped cream toppings should be resserved for moisten biscuit or genoise. Butter cakes don't do well with it, in my experience.

Patrincia
07/14/2007 04:38 PM

Hi Cathy - I don't think you would have a problem with your cake being unrefrigerated for a reasonable amount of time, but rose does specify refrigeration for storage.

As far as using whipped cream as a filling for a butter cake, I would be concerned that the whipped cream wouldn't be able to support the weight of a heavy butter cake. Adding cream cheese would probably help somewhat. Obviously the colder the filling, the better it would be able to support the weight of the cake. Please let us know what you decide to do, and know how it worked out in the end.

Elicia
07/14/2007 06:45 AM

Cathy, I believe whipped cream shd be reserved for biscuits and genoises. Try ganache, glazes and buttercreams for butter cakes.

I think it's good to be aware of bugs problem. I was in Melbourne last year and on one very hot day, I had a first-hand experience of bugs - lots of them! We get a lot of bugs in our humid weather but that experience in Melbourne was one of a kind!

Cathy
07/13/2007 11:32 PM

Do any of you see any problem with the creation of a Reese's whipped cream filling? I am planning to try chopped up Reese's mixed in with stabilized whipped cream/cream cheese as a filling for my chocolate cake. Is there something I should be aware of that I am not with this?

Thanks!

Cathy
07/13/2007 11:22 PM

I have a question....when you make a butter cake with a whipped cream filling of some sort, is it a problem with refrigeration/temperature? I know the butter cake must be a room temp to taste best, but also know whipped cream frostings should be kept refrigerated. Are you just careful to bring to room temp, but not let it set out over 2 hours? Or do you just never mix a refrigerated whipped filling with a butter cake?

I am now getting orders for cakes and want to make sure I do this right. Thank you for any help!

Cathy

Patrincia
07/13/2007 11:11 PM

Hi Jen - I hear Seattle is a wonderful place for foodies! I've never been there, but hope to visit someday!

As for your questions - Oh yes, there are most definitely certain times of the year when one would be faced with this very issue here in Virginia. Thankfully I was warned in advance by an experienced cake maker, and thankfully I have been able to avoid any mishaps (keep in mind I'm talking about situations when the buttercream or ganache has become very soft due to a high outside temperature).

We can get extremely warm temps here as early as March when the air is super thick with pollen. The heat can continue well into the fall when our flying bugs are at their worst (for 5-6 weeks I hear the clinking and clancking of ladybugs flying into the windows all day long - we get them by the gazillions). But then there are times when the air is crystal clear - I recently did a ganache covered cake for an outside event without incident.

I guess it all depends on where you live, and what time of year it is. One of my friends lives only a few miles away from me, but because her property is right next to a horse farm, there are flies everywhere, so there is no way I would put a cake outside at her house. Another friend lives in a town surrounded by orchards - when the fruits fall to the ground and start to rot there are so many gnats flying around you cannot escape them (they are absolutely everywhere - even inside the mall).

I can think of similar situations in other parts of the country too. I guess you live in a relatively non-buggy, fairly low-pollen, and overall more temperate kind of climate.

Jen N
07/13/2007 09:57 PM

Question for you, Patrincia...i provide cakes for quite a few outdoor summer weddings (10-20 per year), and most of my cakes are covered with Mousseline buttercream or ganache. I have never, ever, seen or had a complaint about insects sticking to the frosting! Is this a problem you've actually experienced? I wonder if our climate & bug levels are happily low in Seattle, or if I've just been lucky & should start worrying! Please let me know.

Best,

Jen N

Patrincia
07/13/2007 02:46 PM

Hector - Yikes! I've seen wedding cakes placed under a veil of netting or tulle - similar to the way you would drape mosquito netting over a bed (not that you need any more to do on your already incredibly busy 11-tier cake day!).

Hector
07/13/2007 02:29 PM

Patrincia, bugs will be a BIG concern for the 11-tier WYC cake! I think I will need to construct a giant dome?

Rose
07/13/2007 12:33 PM

Yasmin, you wrote a few weeks ago when i was away about the slightly curdled appearance of the batter. this is normal in most of my butter cakes and as you pointed out the baked texture is great so not to worry!

Patrincia
07/13/2007 12:07 PM

Annette - Yeah for Mousseline Buttercream, but be careful about bugs and pollen sticking to the buttercream. Also, if it's a really humid day, you may get a bit of condensation on the surface of your cake if you take it outside while it's chilled. The condensation should dissipate in time, but I thought I should mention it if you hadn't thought about that already.

Hector
07/13/2007 08:14 AM

Annette, are you using Mousseline Buttercream? It is the most stable and with hold up at even 90 degree weather. HOWEVER, I am certain it needs to be in the shade, even at 75 degree weather! Try bring an umbrella?

Annette
07/13/2007 06:48 AM

Help! I am making an end of the season cake for my grandson's baseball team. My problem is the field really has no shade, how long do you think the cake with buttercream frosting will survive in 75 degree weather.

nushera
07/13/2007 03:34 AM

Patricia/Rozanne, my pre-Rose baking experience consists of meaningless(or nonsense) steps like cooling cakes in pans with a wet towel underneath, even in the oven with the door half-opened... the question of testing such prmitive methods need not arise at all!
Hector, i had tried to avoid the marks from cooling rack by not peeling the paper-lining, but it seemed to lock some steam -> moisture. in fact, those fine marks don't matter if the cake is going to be frosted. and when you have the magic recipe of MBC or Ganache by Rose, u can't avoid frosting even the bottom of the cake!!!

Patrincia
07/12/2007 01:40 PM

Hi Rozanne - that's exactly what I thought would happen. Colette said she gives the upside down cake pans a good thwack and her cakes come right out - maybe it's her recipe? Anyway, I just wondered if anyone else did it that way.

Rozanne
07/12/2007 10:25 AM

Patricia, I once cooled a cake completely in the pan (not intentionally) and it was a complete disaster. The cake broke into pieces and was a big mess. Needless to say, I had to bake another cake. So, even if you get the courage to do it, I wouldn't advise doing it.
Rozanne

Patrincia
07/11/2007 09:09 PM

Rose - I would think the cake would stick inside the pan too. I don't think I'm brave enough to give that a try.

Theresa - Hooray for pre-cut parchment rounds!!! I love them, but like you, have only found 8" and 9" ones (and ones for angle food cake that have a hole cut in the center). I can't find them for larger size pans though, so I cut my own for those. If the cake pan is wider than the paper, I simply overlap 2 pieces.

Rose
07/11/2007 04:44 PM

thanks theresa for the leap of confidence but honestly i only test things that seem promising or make sense. i see no advantage whatsoever in cooling a cake in a pan and only a disadvantage in that it will continue to cook slightly and possibly stick to the pan.
of course silicone pans are different and the cakes need to be cooled in the pans.

Hector
07/11/2007 03:51 PM

Patrincia, some cakes like to be cooled in the pan, some not. Some like to be cooled upright, some upside down! I follow what it says for each cake in CB.

Theresa
07/11/2007 03:08 PM

I have to admit that I cheat and use the precut 8" and 9" parchment rounds from King Arthur. But I doubt they come in the diameters you folks would need! I keep the parchment on until I frost the cake - even when I freeze unfrosted layers.

I have never heard of cooling cakes in the pans! (But I'll bet if anyone has tested it, Rose has!)

Patrincia
07/11/2007 02:50 PM

Thanks Hector (you're funny!). No, I've never tried to build a brick wall, but I could use a little brick something or other on each side of my driveway entrance :)

So you cool your cakes with the parchment, I guess I alway take it off right away. I don't think I've ever left it on until the cakes were completely cooled, but I'll give it a try next time.

Speaking of cooling cakes, I was just reading an exerpt from a Colette Peters book about how she completely cools her cakes IN the pans, before she turns them out. Have any of you tried that?

Hector
07/11/2007 02:40 PM

Patrincia, your cakes are the most ultmost leveled I've seen. Have your tried to build a brick wall (literally), lots of leveling and offset spatula work?

Me too, I use parchment or wax paper to line the bottoms of all my regular pans with flat bottoms (round, square, oval, sheet, hexagon, heart), and specially on the larger or moister cakes. It guarantees that no pieces of cake remain on the pan during un molding. Also, if your cake baked with a dome, when you invert, the paper prevents that cake to crack! And of course, it facilitates handling while the paper is still on. I cool my cakes with the parchment still on, and peel it off just prior to frosting; when possible, my cakes are cooling on the rack , with the paper side down, so the cake never gets marks from the rack.

The many uses of parchment paper, I am even starting to make little envelopes with it to hold business cards!

Theresa
07/11/2007 11:49 AM

Patrincia, that's good information. I haven't bothered with crumb coating in the past as I am usually in a rush. Would probably be worth the extra few minutes, though, especially on cakes that are very moist. You have convinced me! Good tip on not flouring the pan as well.

Patrincia
07/11/2007 08:58 AM

Patricia - Hi. "Crumb coating" is a way of sealing in any loose crumbs to keep them from getting into your frosting. This can be done by applying a thin coat of glaze, piping gel, or even a thin layer of frosting. I like to use a very thin layer of frosting. I start by removing a small portion of the frosting from the batch and I transfer it to a smaller bowl. I will "crumb coat" with the frosting in the smaller bowl, that way any crumbs that get mixed in won't ruin the whole batch of frosting. To begin, coat your entire cake with a very thin layer of frosting (don't worry if you see the cake through the frosting). Once that's done, put it in the fridge to chill for 10-15 minutes (long enough for the frosting to be firm to the touch). Now, don't use the small bowl of frosting anymore - start using the big batch of frosting you set aside earlier - and voila, you won't have any loose crumbs mixed into your frosting :).

I should also mention that this technique works extremely well with Rose's recipes (like the ones found in The Cake Bible). I think standard box cake mixes and canned frostings will only add to your problems in this regard. Also, I know other like to four their pans, but for butter cakes, I never flour my cake pans (I think it produced excess crumbs). I just spray my pans with non-stick spray and line the bottoms with parchment or waxed paper, and I've never had a cake stick ever (got that tip from my sister who worked in a bakery for years). PS - for bundt pans, I spray and sugar the pan - the sugar adds a sweet little crunch to the crust).

Patrincia
07/11/2007 08:24 AM

Hector - Yes, I always to crumb coat, but I rarely, if ever, pull up any crumbs (especially when using Rose's cake recipes). I tend to put several thin coats of buttercream on my cakes (chilling well between each layer), in order to get a really nice, smooth, level finished product. That's just the method that I've developed over the years, and it works well for me.

Hector
07/10/2007 08:04 PM

Patrincia, regarding crumb coating, do you always do it? I find it that I don't. I have been frosting cakes without any professional training, but whatever I do seems to work! I frost my cakes at once, and there are zero crumbs.

Patricia
07/10/2007 07:44 PM

No Maam, I never heard of crumb coating. What is it?

Patrincia
07/10/2007 03:16 PM

No, not with white chocolate.

Jennifer Schmitt
07/10/2007 10:40 AM

Hey everyone,

Has anyone ever made "sour cream ganache" with white chocolate?

Hector
07/09/2007 02:26 PM

Jennifer, I also find that heating the sugar to 248-250 is critically "high." If I ever go over, it becomes too thick and your buttercream ends with solid pieces of candy. What I do is use all tools and techiniques I have to make sure I reach this temperature properly. I have a candy thermometer, and infrared thermometer, and my eyes and a cup of cold water to test the hard ball point.

I do find that if I want to play it "safe" and heat it only to 220 or so (the sugar mix stays at this temperature for a long time before jumping to 240), my mousseline is not as stable!

Jennifer Schmitt
07/09/2007 12:53 PM

A question for Rose:

I have been successful making your mousseline buttercream many times. Your recipe calls for raising the boiling sugar mixture to 248-250 degrees before adding to the egg whites. (i'm guessing you already knew that :-) )Anyway my new baking textbook, "On Baking" calls for the sugar "not to exceed 240 degrees" in it's Italian Buttercream recipe which is otherwise the same as your Mousseline. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the difference in temperature? I can promise that I have no plans to deviate from your recipe because it's always been successful. I just thougth there might be something I could intrigue my teacher with!

Jen

Hector
07/08/2007 11:12 PM

Kyle, canned lichees are just as good as fresh ones. I would drain the fruit for a few hours in the refrigerator, save the syrup to moisten your cake. Half a few whole lichees for decoration as I did, and coarselly chop a few to mix with your filling. As you chop the lichee you should save the juice that comes from it, too.

Kyle
07/08/2007 07:53 PM

Hector,
That is really pretty(and I'm sure deelish). Any advice for me to use my can of lychees I picked up a few months ago to substitue as far as handling and placement?
K

Hector
07/08/2007 04:26 AM

I tried to make a quiet entrance at the Chinese restaurant where my nephew's party was held. But the 'Absolutely Delicheeous' cake created such a commotion, that even the wisest and oldest Chinese man stood up to greet (me and the cake). I felt honored, and I always feel my Chinese relatives can be so sincere about food (if you know what I mean!). Lichee is definitely a cultural icon for them, and I think I could not have done any better to make this cake a worship to the fruit.

Last night, when tasting the whipping cream during the cake assembly, I felt it wasn't sweet enough. But my worries were short gone tonight when I tasted the slice of served cake. The whipping cream was truly less sweet and a bit tangy since I added some lichee juice while heating up the unflavored gelatin for the super stabilized method. Lichee is so sweet and moist (and also sticky) that the fruit stuck on the sides of the cake made the adjacent whipping cream sweeter than when it was made.

One possible improvement, believe it or not, would be to use canned lichee or to gently blanch the fresh fruit with syrup. I used fresh lichee on this occasion, and my brother questioned "seems like your lichee may be over ripe, I have just had one that was on the sour side!" Lichee can be so sweet or sour depending on what specific fruit you bite that blanching them in syrup would have made them all more uniformly sweet!

There won't be that many Absolutely Delicheeous this month because the lichee season lasts only 1 month, and because it costs me $3 per pound! (which aren't that many).

Bake your life away (and eat as much lichee as you get hold of).

Elicia
07/08/2007 02:27 AM

Oh Hector, I agree with Rose! Lovely cake! Really ingenious to decorate the sides with lychee! Yummy!

Rose
07/07/2007 10:55 AM

utterly lovely--looks absolutely delicheeous! (i think your sister-in-laws are pulling your chain saying they're not into cakes!

Hector
07/07/2007 05:10 AM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Nicholas2.html

Another cake, just fresh of the oven. Made just to satisfy my sister's in-laws, she told me today they are not into cakes, neither into chocolate! This I call Lichee Shortcake (Biscuit de Savoie moistened with Grand Marnier). I am happy with how it came out together; I was very brave (and skeptical) to cover the sides with peeled half lichees inside out, showing the characteristic brown eyes of the natural fruit centers, then placing the whole red fruits on top! Whipping cream, and center layer filled with some pieces of fruit, too. It is a Lichee cake, nothing more or less!

Patrincia
07/06/2007 11:35 PM

Hi Chris - Under baked cakes indeed can indeed fall in the middle, but usually not until they are cooling. You mentioned that your cake started to fall in the middle DURING baking - it's probably an issue with your baking powder or baking soda amounts (they have to be carefully measured, and be sure they are fresh). Also, you could be using a different kind of flour than the recipe called for. If you do a search on this blog, you'll get lots of hits on this subject.

Michelle
07/06/2007 11:04 PM

I would think that the cake sinking in the middle could be due to underbaking the cake. I think this is usually the case with most heavier cakes (i.e. carrot, banana, etc). Was it browning? If it was browning at edges and looked "done" and baked for the correct ampount of time, your oven may be running too hot.

Michelle
07/06/2007 11:04 PM

I would think that the cake sinking in the middle could be due to underbaking the cake. I think this is usually the case with most cakes. Was it browning? If it was browning at edges and looked "done" and baked for the correct ampount of time, your oven may be running too hot.

Chris
07/06/2007 10:58 PM

What could cause a carrot cake to sink or fall in the middle during baking?

Patrincia
07/06/2007 06:01 PM

Jennifer - very exciting! Will you fill us in on the details when a final decision has been made?

Rozanne
07/06/2007 03:52 PM

Congratulations Jen!!! That is indeed good news. I'm sure you will come up with great creations. Afterall you have the Cake Bible as your reference and guide.
Rozanne

Hector
07/06/2007 03:49 PM

Jen, thanks for sharing your exitement. Congratulations on the baking for the restaurant. Do keep us posted what you whip for them!

Hector
07/06/2007 03:35 PM

Jennifer, I think my sister is used to my "creativity" or change of moods! She should be expecting this because I told her we won't be able to add any coconut shavings on the colored sides. For sure, it is difficult to deal this way if I was to do this for business with clients... I drift too much!

Elicia, yes, I piped these on parchment and froze them. I think the sticks will hold thru our dinner party which will be at an air conditioned restaurant. The cake is sitting in the refrigerator now, inside a glass cake dome which I will bring with me, it should stay pretty chilled. But honestly, I think the Mousseline Buttercream piped like these sticks will hold up just fine!

Oh boy, I have an audience tonight. My dearest friend Deanna has volunteered to watch me cake decorating tonight! Her children are hooked with Food TV, and they call me Alton Brown (with a smaller forehead!). I plan to bake a few 6 to 9" Biscuit de Savoie (can I do this in 1 hour?), and by the time Deanna and her kids arrive up we can frost and pipe. Maybe they can help me do the coffee bean chocolate dipping. In any case, I have a molded cake made of the delicious cake sides I cut off from my nephews now colorful cake; these scraps were too delicious to discard!

Elicia
07/06/2007 08:02 AM

Jen - congrats! Wonderful to be supplying cake to a restaurant! Keep us posted on the cakes you develop, ok?

Hector - Nice combination on the sides! Just one question - will the points of the buttercream sticks keep upright or will it be taken out of the fridge only briefly before serving? I assumed you attached them frozen. In any case, I believe your sis will love this 'labour of love'!

Theresa
07/06/2007 07:25 AM

Jennifer - congratulations! That is high praise indeed! Hope you enjoy developing the cakes.

Hector - that cake looks mighty interesting, but the question is - does your sister approve??? (Didn't she say "white sides"?)

Hector
07/06/2007 05:29 AM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Nicholas.html

3 layer Biscuit de Savoie moistened with Frangelico. Light Whipped Chocolate Ganache pool. Fruit flavored Mousseline Buttercream sticks: cherry quick "Cordon Rose Raspberry Conserve,” and dehydrated apricot “Lemon Curd.”

Veronica
07/06/2007 02:54 AM

CONGRATULATIONS. You are allowed to be excited. How wonderful baking cakes for a restaurant. That is a major complement. Veronica in Western Australia

Jennifer Schmitt
07/06/2007 12:46 AM

Hey Everyone,
Just wanted to share my good news. I had 3 varieties of my cakes tasted by some chefs who are friends of my sister. They had nothing but praise for the samples. THEN, the one who owns a restaurant, asked to have some cakes developed to serve at that restaurant starting in the fall. I am so excited! Thanks to Rose, who makes it all so easy to understand! BTW the textbook for my baking course isn't nearly as helpful or informative!

Jen

Patrincia
07/03/2007 01:36 PM

Jo-Ann - I think Rose is still out of town, but maybe I can help. Rose's wedding cakes to serve 150 are 6-9-12 tiers. The recipe for the White Chocolate Cream Cheese Frosting is also scaled to serve 150, so I think you should definitely make 2 batches for a 6-8-10-12 cake. You can freeze leftovers, but depending on the amount of piping you do, you might not end up with any.

As for the lemon juice - I'm not sure if the actual lemon flavor is that discernable or if it's just in the recipe to "brighten" the overall flavor of the frosting. Page 237 has the same recipe in a much smaller size (makes 4 3/4 cups). Why don't you play around with it a bit? You could divide the smaller batch up and try several variations and see what you like.

PS to Rose if you're out there somewhere. I just noticed you call this recipe on pg 237 Buttercream, and on pg 525 Frosting. I probably have a copy that's since been updated.

Jo-Ann
07/03/2007 12:37 PM

Hi Rose,

I was looking at your Cake Bible recipe for White Chocolate Cream Cheese Frosting. Am wondering if you thought it would work for the chocolate wedding cake I am making for my friends Nov. wedding. My concern is the lemon juice in the recipe. Do you think I should omit it and replace it with vanilla extract because the cakes are chocolate? How much vanilla should I use?

Also I will be making 6", 8", 10", and 12" layer cakes, all to be assembled on separate cake stands. The frosting recipe says it is for a tiered wedding cake. Would this be enough for my 4 cakes or should I double it?

As always thank you in advance for your help.

Patrincia
07/03/2007 11:01 AM

Hi Patricia - we share the same first name :).

It's pretty hard to avoid crumbs, but there are a few tricks you can do to keep them from ruining the finished appearance of your cake.

Are you familiar with the technique called "crumb coating"?

Patricia
07/03/2007 10:38 AM

Ms. Rose, Please help me learn how to make a cake without crumbs so the frosting won't be spreaded with cake crumbs. Thank you Maam!

Yasmin
07/02/2007 04:43 AM

Rose, over the last two weeks I have baked the All Occasion Downy Yellow cake 3 times, The Perfect All American Chocolate Butter Cake 4 times and the White Velvet Butter Cake twice. All the cakes have turned out well, but a few times I noticed the batter getting a curdled appearance...esp in the Chocolate and white cakes. I assumed it was because one of the ingredients was not at room temparature....and took great care to correct this the next time, but the batter still had a slightly curdled appearence. Can you tell me where I am going wrong..?
The cakes, however, have been great!!
Thanks
Yasmin.

Hector
07/01/2007 10:13 PM

Veronica, yes and no. I made that cake, but I first saw it designed from fellow blogger Matthew, he posted a picture here recently. All you need is find fresh mangoes and lay it around like a rose.

Veronica
07/01/2007 08:23 PM

Hector, are you the creator of that beautiful cake on the left? I clicked on the link above and was drooling. If you are the creator please let me know how. I love to attempt it.

Hector
07/01/2007 04:41 AM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/HiloFarmersMarket.html

A little bit of food for thought. Enjoy.

Hector
06/30/2007 02:28 AM

Matthew, please post a photo of your battery-operated sifter!

Matthew
06/30/2007 02:12 AM

It is certainly more contained as you don't have to move the sifting implement at all--you just hold it over the bowl. In fact, I usually set my bowl on the scale, turn on the sifter and hold it with one hand while I add flour a spoonful at a time with the other. I stop when I have the weight I need. The nice part about this is that you don't need 2 bowls for weighing and then sifting. It is also incredibly fast and your hand never gets tired from sifting or tapping.

Patrincia
06/29/2007 05:16 PM

Matthew - does it decrease the amount of dust created? Can you post a photo?

Matthew
06/29/2007 04:56 PM

I've had the battery-operated one for a few years now. I wouldn't use anything else. It is so fast and easy--I used to hate sifting, but now I don't mind it at all.

Hector
06/29/2007 02:36 PM

Regarding sifting flour with a strainer, that is what I have been doing. I used to have a "real" flour sifter, those that you can't wash. I dislike the dust of flour, so I strainer-sift my flour on the largest bowl I have and inside my kitchen sink... or sometimes on my bathtub! I hate cake crumbs too (I am so fed up with all the de-crumbing I need to make on my Biscuit de Savoies), but what can I do, I need to install one of those floor drains so I can hose things off!

... very tempted to get the little battery operater flour sifter, seems to be less messy? It is the one Rose writes about in TCB, I think it is made by Norpro.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/29/2007 10:53 AM

does your client want a crust?

i guess i should ask, huh? lol

jen

Patrincia
06/29/2007 10:48 AM

Hi Jennifer - my mother swears by the ricotta cheesecake recipe in Rao's cookbook. I don't know if it has a crust or not, I always assumed "to crust or not to crust" was a matter of personal preference. Does your client want a crust?

Jennifer Schmitt
06/29/2007 10:34 AM

Hi Everyone,
Someone has asked me to make a traditional ricotta cheesecake. I can't figure out if it's supposed to have a crust or not and if so, what kind. Can anyone advise?
Jennifer

Jennifer Schmitt
06/29/2007 10:30 AM

Mary Ellen,
There is a thread on this site called "fake cakes". You can find it under the "hot out of the oven" topics on the left. It goes into a lot of detail about dummies and all the decorating options.
Good Luck !
Jennifer

Mary Ellen
06/29/2007 08:19 AM

Hi Rose! I am going to compete in a county fair with my cake decorating. We can use dummie cakes. This will be a first for me. Do I cover the cake dummies with something before I put the icing on? Are they reusable?

Patrincia
06/29/2007 07:57 AM

When I use a strainer to sift, I do so over a large bowl, which contains any dusty messes that might occur otherwise. BTW, I LOVE my PourFect bowl!!!

Rozanne
06/29/2007 07:50 AM

Christine,
If you weigh your flour you don't have to sift it except for sponge cakes.

Here is Rose's reply to a similar question:

"When weighing cake flour and the recipe asks for sifted cake flour, such as in your white butter cake, do you still need to sift if you weigh out the 600 grams as in the recipe? I think not but I just want to double check.

Posted by: Lisa | August 25, 2006 10:44 AM

you're right. and that's one of the many joys of weighing--no need to sift. the one time you need to sift is for sponge type cakes such as biscuit or genoise when you want the flour to sit as lightly as possible on the egg foam before folding it in.

Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 25, 2006 3:06 PM"

Rozanne

nushera
06/29/2007 01:42 AM

Jennifer, i used to make that mess too and often found my daughter's foot/palm prints on the white dust! taking 2 generous pieces of baking paper saved me. u can easily shift flour-mix from one onto the other thru the strainer without any mess. u can also add flour to the liquid direct from the baking paper just pulling the sides up a bit. the sheets can be kept as almost nothing is left on.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/28/2007 11:41 PM

I use a mesh strainer too. I always make a gawdawful mess! lol But I love using it.

Patrincia
06/28/2007 08:03 PM

I also use a hand held "mesh strainer" to sift - so much easier than the old fashioned hand style sifters (no offense to anyone who prefers that method).

Patrincia
06/28/2007 07:30 PM

Yes, sifting (even for presifted flour) is easy to do. I like to use a whisk. I breaks up any clumps, and works very well for incorporating dry ingredients together.

Hector
06/28/2007 06:25 PM

YES, unless you have a recipe that does not call for sifted flour.

Christine
06/28/2007 05:57 PM

I've got another question. :) Soft Silk Cake Flour is presifted (it's what I usually use). Do I still need to sift my cake flour?

Christine

Elicia
06/28/2007 07:12 AM

Oh Nushera, I'm starting to understand why you have problems inverting the cheesecake - you pressed the crumb base up the sides of the tin as well, right? The cheesecakes I bake only have a crumb base at the base, or sometimes without any base - there's no problem inverting the cake! Of course, remember to protect the top of the cake with clingfilm/plastic wrap before inverting.

nushera
06/27/2007 11:07 PM

now i can guess what makes me shaky to invert my cheesecake: most probably it's the height of the biscuit-wall. it should exceed the height of the top, but not more than half a cm (apprx). what do u think?
Patrincia- thks, i have got some ceramic serving plates of different colours and found darker shade of cake-shell looks better on lighter tint of plate and vice-versa. i also try to keep some 'mix n match' between the colours of the topping and plate. like topping including mango/pawpaw/orange on yellow/orange plate, choc curls or cocoa-dust(kept shaped) with plate from wide range of brown. a little effort can really make a big difference in presentation! one of my friends suffering from eating disorder was once advised by her psychologist to use crokeries(sorry for the probable wrong spelling) of colours that match with the general sense of edibility, ie, avoid colours like blue or purple. i think that also rings a bell for decorating the canvas-like base of a cheesecake.

Hector
06/27/2007 06:28 PM

Nushera/Jennifer. I use the trick of covering it with a plastic wrap, too! flip it to a flat plate, then flip it back to the serving plate.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/27/2007 11:51 AM

Nushera,
If your cheesecake is cold, right out of the fridge, it shouldn't be damaged when flipping/inverting. If you are really worried, try covering your cake round with plastic wrap or using a cake round with a plasticized surface.
As far as your biscuit, just be sure to run a spatula around the inside of the pan to loosen first.

Jennifer

Patrincia
06/27/2007 08:06 AM

Nushera - Your presentation sounds lovely - let us know how it works for you. (I have a cheesecake in the fridge, maybe I should give it a go too).

nushera
06/27/2007 01:17 AM

thank you all for sharing yr expertise in cheesecake shifting/serving. it's ok to let the cake sit on the metal base or board bt woudnt it be nice to see the peeping strawberries or citrus slices painted on the serving plate as u gradually cut n remove pieces from the cake with similar topping! inverting n reinverting definitely is the best solution but i'm still anxious about getting the biscuit-wall cracked and/or the top damaged... wish me luck.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/26/2007 01:24 PM

@Nushera
My cheesecake tip:

I use regular 3 inch cake pans lined with wax paper or parchment (or even foil in a pinch). When I am ready to unmold I put the cold pan over a stove burner and rotate the pan over the heat for a few seconds. When I gently shake the cake back and forth and it shifts a bit in the pan I know it's ready to unmold. I unmold like a regular cake; first onto a round upside down and then flipped onto it's final round or plate. I have made dozens and dozens of cheesecakes this way and never had one disaster. I don't use the springform because I can't seem to keep the water out of the cake!
Jennifer

Elicia
06/26/2007 10:33 AM

Hi Nushera, I have no problem peeling off the baking parchment - you have to make sure it is well greased. To make it easier, do not cut the parchment into a circle to fit the base. Instead, leave it as a square slightly larger than the pan, and clip it in place on the base of the cake pan when you attach the springform. The edges of the parchment shld be sticking out from the base of the springform pan. To unmold, remove springform, invert cake gently onto a flat plate lined with clingfilm, and simply peel off the parchment by peeling the corners of the square - it shld come off easily. Then reinvert the cake back on the serving plate, or a cake board.

Patrincia
06/26/2007 09:53 AM

I confess - I just serve my cheesecakes right from the metal base... never had a complaint :)

Hector
06/26/2007 03:38 AM

Nushera, I always cheat. I "never" transfer a "cake" into a serving plate. I "always" use a "liner." Line your tin with a round sheet of heavy duty aluminum foil, then when you tranfer to a serving plate you transfer with the foil. Parchment paper works too, if the cake isn't too wet.

A cake board works great too, specially if your cake has frosting on the sides, you can hide the board easilly,

nushera
06/25/2007 11:28 PM

my cheesecake doesn't crack bt i've to say prayers before shifting it onto a serving plate. i line the base of the 9" springform tin i use with baking paper and take the cake out after proper refrigeration. but separating the cake(biscuit-base) from the bottom of the tin is very tough! dear experts, pls help me with your kind advice.

Patrincia
06/25/2007 08:26 PM

Rumford baking powder is aluminum free.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/25/2007 06:27 PM

hmmm I've never heard of aluminum free formula. I used the regular Clabber Girl brand. I've made 4 other cakes today and haven't had any problems with the oven or my measurements on those cakes. I was just wondering if anyone else had had trouble with this particular recipe.

Oh well, back to the drawing board,
Thanks,
Jennifer

Matthew
06/25/2007 11:11 AM

Jennifer,
It sounds to me like there may be several issues involved here. Here are a few ideas: your oven temperature seems off (too long baking time), it sounds like you aren't weighing the ingredients, you may be using regular baking powder which has a more metallic taste than the aluminum free brands--and perhaps you added too much if your spoons are off?

Jennifer Schmitt
06/25/2007 10:30 AM

Hi Everyone,
I made Rose's White Velvet Butter Cake this weekend and it was horrible! HELP. The cake took about 45 minutes to bake in a 9 inch pan with a black non-stick lining. The outside was very dark yellow. Still, I thought it would be OK, but the taste...on first bite it tasted like a stick of butter and then it melted into an overwhelming flavor of baking powder/soda. It was horrible. I know that I used the proper amount because it has such a high amount of baking powder that I double checked. Has this happened to anyone else?

Jennifer

Rose
06/24/2007 09:16 PM

laura i'm sure the commercial places are using all sorts of stabilizers. humdity is a real problem with sugar work. you could try melting down caramel candies and adding some cream to make a caramel cream sauce thick enough to work for the top of the cake. you'll need to experiment but it should be the answer.

Yasmin
06/24/2007 07:57 PM

I was wondering if anyone had baked any of Rose's butter cakes in a 9x13 pan? I tried the All Occasion Downy in a 9x13 and felt it didnt come out too well. ( the conversions were all accurate, and the finished batter weighed what it should have!)
Thanks
Yasmin.

Laura
06/21/2007 12:50 PM

Hi Rose! I love your books! I've tried many of the recipes and they were wonderful except for the caramels. I'm presently staying in the Philippines and it's VERY humid all year long. Every time I make caramel sauce as topping for cakes, they turn out runny in an hour. I've seen chocolate cakes iced with caramel in stores and they never seem to have the same problem as mine. Are they adding any stabilizers to prevent the caramel from being runny? I'm already losing hope since I can't perfect this one. Please help me.

Thanks,
Laura

Rozanne
06/21/2007 08:35 AM

Thank you Rose and Jen. Rose you were right in assuming that I was getting a second hand copy only b/c I thought I couldn't get a new one. Thanks for letting me know that Jessica's Biscuit and Sweet Celebration carry it.
Have a good trip!
Rozanne

Elicia
06/20/2007 10:22 PM

Hi Jennifer, The roses were piped on individual squares of wax paper and frozen before being placed on the cake! In my very warm kitchen, I can only pipe about 3 roses before it gets too soft, so I keep popping the piping bag into the fridge. Another good trick is to pipe all the center cones first and refrigerate till firm. A firm cone makes piping the rose much easier. I thot my roses were still too flat though - needs more practice. I also wld use parchment bags next time as less heat gets transferred to the buttercream from your hands.

Hi Patrincia, the shimmery effect was made by painting (dry) shimmery petal dust over the fondant. I love those stuff and it really makes the decorations magical. Very expensive to buy here though.

I pre-grate the choc shavings earlier and refrigerated them. Then, I frosted only the areas I want to cover with the buttercream and simply pour the choc shavings over the cake! A few light taps on the pan wld release excess shavings, and any empty areas were filled with a cold metal spatula. I also chilled extra spatulas and metal spoons - for scooping up extra shavings and patting the shavings into the buttercream (never with fingers!). Oh, I also divided the shavings into 2 containers so that I can keep 1/2 chilled while I worked with the 1st batch of shavings! The choc wld not stick on areas I didn't frost, which I later piped in the buttercream to fill (ears and feet).

Actually the crust came out so perfect I almost didn't want to frost the cake! The unfrosted bear was the perfect golden brown, and all the indentations were so neat!

Oh Hector, thks so much for your piping tricks - will keep them in mind for my next kiddy cake! Oh I copped out on piping tedious stars - the choc shavings did the trick!
You can actually rent those pans out! The local Wilton store here (one and only) rents out their 3D pans as most bakers wld only use one design once or twice! I agree they make nice wall decor though!

Jen N
06/20/2007 10:06 PM

Hi Rozanne, just wanted to give an enthusiastic echo to Rose's comments about Fran Bigelow. She is our hometown chocolate heroine here in Seattle! The book (Pure Chocolate) is absolutely gorgeous - the photos are so beautiful, it's tempting to call it a coffee table book...but the recipes are so great, it's definitely a cookbook! Every one I've tried has been really fantastic. I hope you get it!

Rose
06/20/2007 08:05 PM

sorry rozanne--i'm getting confused trying to get ready to leave! i assumed you were trying to get it second hand but jessica's biscuit and sweet celebrations both carry it!
my dad was the one who said "let her go hungry--she'll eat soon enough." but it was never put to the test!

Rozanne
06/20/2007 07:56 PM

Thank you Rose. I'll get the book then. I still need to find a copy of the Christmas cookie book though. I just got a copy of your Romantic and Classic Cakes and read the intro. I love your stories about your idea of heaven which includes having enough cows and chickens and the hunger strike. I used to do the same thing as a kid. I was such a picky eater too that my grandmother would do just about anything to prevent those hunger strikes. My mum on the other hand didn't take me so seriously.
Rozanne

Rose
06/20/2007 06:48 PM

rozanne, i haven't gone through the book but fran is a brilliant chocolatier so i'm sure it's worth having.

Hector
06/20/2007 03:12 PM

and you haven't seen the ones on the wall next to it! plus all the ones I gave away to my sister when I do rummage fights. BTW

Rozanne
06/20/2007 03:04 PM

Wow! Hector. I wish I lived nearby, I could borrow all those pans for my kids b'days instead of buying them. I use them once (maybe twice if I make a cake for my nieces) and then they just adorn my basement.

By the way, does anyone have Fran Bigelow's book Pure Chocolate? I bid on Rose's Christmas Cookies on Ebay, won the auction and now the seller tells me she doesn't have the book. She is offering to send me the Pure Chocolate book or a refund. I don't mind getting the chocolate book if it is a good one.
Rozanne

Patrincia
06/20/2007 02:11 PM

Elicia - did you learn any tricks along the way when covering your bear with the chocolate shavings? I did a castle cake with white chocolate once, and I struggled a bit with it melting in my hand as I applied it. I discovered too late that I could have used a spatula to pick up the shavings, but maybe you have a better way to do it.

Hector - I just love getting a peek at your "creative cake studio" :)

Hector
06/20/2007 01:51 PM

Elicia, I didn't expect anything less with the pictures!

Your fondant train is EXCELLENT, where you a playdoll queen girl? Really nice use of the train, thank you for not nailing candles on the bear.

Your bear is fantastic, and it sound tasty, too! I remember my first 3D bear done with royal icing, was so hard to pipe, and nobody could cut though it. I don't mind the gaps between the piped stars, your background is white and it gives a more fluffy look to the bear, after all many brown bears have white skin! But if you want to make a very brown bear, first lightly coat it with your brown frosting. Another trick I use, is to use a toothpick and swirl between the gaps to join the stars. Another trick, too, is to use #1 plain tube and pipe dots in between.

Doest it take TOO long to cover the bear with piped stars. In fact, Wilton should create a quicker method. I have a large collection of 3D and 2D pans and most are designed for piped stars... for now, these pans are just wall decor!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/BlogLinks/IMG_0138.jpg

Patrincia
06/20/2007 11:30 AM

Elicia - How did you get that nice shimmery effect on your train?

Jennifer Schmitt
06/20/2007 10:31 AM

Elicia,
How did you get your roses so firm on the other cake? Whenever I pipe roses with Rose's buttercreams they come out kind of soft and flat.

Jennifer

Elicia
06/20/2007 10:15 AM

Oh Theresa, You're right. A small packet of M&Ms and another packet of assorted sweets and liquorice! The kids loved it!

Yes, Rozanne - the Golden Luxe Butter Cake bakes very well in the 3D shape. I just use whole eggs in place of the yolks (as Rose said yolks-only wld result in a darker crust especially since this is baked for 50mins). The cake was exceptionally moist and the crust a lovely golden colour - thks to the trick of wrapping with foil and wet kitchen towels, and Wilton's Cake Release! The taste is heavenly, especially is accentuated with lemon syrup.

Love the 100 acres wood idea! Wld try that if I do Pooh next! Any pics to share?

Elicia
06/20/2007 10:06 AM

Hi Patrincia, This time it is a bear shaped pan - Wilton's standup bear. A useful tip is that you have to wrap the pan with foil with a layer of wet kitchen towel inside to prevent over-browning (especially the bear ears!).

I added the train as I thought the bear was a bit plain. I also didn't want them poking the candles into the bear! Ouch!

Rose's fondant is so easy to mould. I finished the train in 1/2 hour! Just like Playdoh!

Rozanne
06/20/2007 10:02 AM

Elicia,
The cake looks really good. I especially like the train. You are so creative. Thank you for the "train" idea. I am always looking for new ideas for my kids' and nieces' b'day cakes. I did a 3D Pooh bear cake for my niece 5 years ago and my brother made the "100 acre woods" so the cake can be place in it. The presentation was really creative even though I say so myself. Sadly I didn't have the Cake Bible at the time and the cake was not the best. I'm so glad to hear that the Golden Luxury butter cake bakes well in a 3D pan. The next time I make a 3D cake I will definitely try it.
Rozanne

Theresa
06/20/2007 10:01 AM

Elicia, I love your bear cake! Are those M&M's as the wheels on the train cars?

Patrincia
06/20/2007 09:49 AM

Elicia - your cake is SOOOOO CUTE!!!!!! Did you use a bear shaped pan or did you carve the shape yourself? I think the train is wonderful - really the entire thing is so creative and adorable... GREAT JOB!

Elicia
06/20/2007 09:20 AM

Ok everyone, here's the 3D standup bear cake pics! I'm starting to find that 3D shapes are easier to decorate as the design is already in place! So just a coating of white choc mousseline buttercream and choc shavings. The golden luxe butter cake was lightly moistened with lemon syrup. This butter cake is a real winner - everyone commented on how delicious and moist it is - very fine crumb with a solid feel but totally melt-in-the-mouth. Just magical!

The mom kept the fondant train as a keepsake but 'unfortunately' her kids and their cousins ate it up! It was Rose's rolled fondant recipe flavoured with orange flower water.
The cake's not as breathtaking as the wedding cakes on this blog, but the kids love it!

teddycake

And oh Mary Ellen, may I suggest a layer of Creme Ivoire (white choc glaze) over the mousseline buttercream - it seals in moisture like fondant, but tastes better and prevent smudges to the buttercream - and can be refrigerated unlike fondant!

Mary Ellen
06/20/2007 07:44 AM

Thank you so much! Will keep you posted!

Hector
06/20/2007 12:44 AM

I've just made a large batch of Mousseline Buttercream, the 11 cup recipe. I used Kahlua as liquor. BTW, I've noticed that once you add the liquor, the buttercream becomes shiny and silky, luscious to work with, and I can almost say it "fixes" the buttercream if it looks a little curdled.

I flavored half of it with 1/2 cup of Cordon Rose Raspberry Conserve, and the other half with chocolate. I took me over 5 hours to frost my cakes, and the buttercream holds well at room temperature. I feel this buttercream is pure magic, its consistency gets better as you work with it though your cake frosting and decoration.

Michelle
06/19/2007 10:24 PM

I agree with Patrincia about the Mousseline! The lemon curd recipe is in the Cake Bible. Fondant isn't that difficult to work with if you do a little practice run and would seal in the moisture and protect your cake from the elements. My cake was at room temperature for almost 2 days and was still wonderful.

Patrincia
06/19/2007 10:13 PM

Mary Ellen - We all agree the buttercream that holds up best in warm temps is Rose's recipe for Mousseline Buttercream.

One word of caution though - anytime I hear about buttercream outside (especially when it's soft from the warm temp), any airborn particles (bugs, pollen, etc) will instanly stick to the cake when they come in contact with it.

Mary Ellen
06/19/2007 08:32 PM

Wow! This is great! I was surfing and came across someone suggested people to go to TheCakeBible.com. Then I read all the advice and have learned so much! I am down to time here. I am baking a wedding cake for the month of August. The reception will be in the evening, outdoors. I am worried about my buttercream and fondant is questionable. Have any suggestions which icing to use on a hot summer night? Also, I read about lemon curd, is there a recipe? You all are awesome!

Yasmin
06/19/2007 09:47 AM

Sorry, Rose....I should have realised that the terminology was different ...what is called tube pan in the US is a ring pan here down under. However, I did bake the Perfect All American Chocolate Butter Cake in two 8" tube pans....and it worked well. The only change I made was to withhold about a cupcake worth of batter and bake the cakes one at a time in the centre of the oven :) Thanks again.

Hector
06/18/2007 10:09 PM

I am posting the progress of the 11 tier Biscuit de Savoie under the topic: "Hector's 4-Layer Moist Chocolate Genoise."

I hope you all Biscuit or Genoise lovers find this information useful, and I do need to learn from you!

Rose
06/18/2007 06:39 PM

i didn't realize that by ring you were referring to a tube pan. i thought you meant a cake ring which is is a bottomless ring that is set on a sheet pan and functions much like a pan of the same size. a pan with a center tube does indeed bake differently as heat is conducted to the center offering more support as well.

Yasmin
06/18/2007 06:32 PM

Thank you, Rose...I had taken care to ensure that the pan was just half full, and yet the cake rose above the cone in the centre of the ring pan. Maybe the unevenness could have been because both pans were on the same shelf, and thus the sides towards the centre of the oven rose more? I will try the same with the chocolate cake today, but perhaps put a little less batter as I notice its proportions are the same as the Downy Yellow Cake. Thanks again for all the feedback....it helps all us amatuers a lot!!
Yasmin.

Michelle
06/18/2007 11:49 AM

Hi Diane,

I made a cake for a large wedding in Vancouver (over 200) this weekend- and made the 12, 9, 6" sizes. BUT, there were several other desserts & fruit as well! I considered making a 15" as well as the other 3 but decided against it. It turned out to be the perfect amount with other desserts. FYI- Ming Wo in Richmond, BC has the 15" pans and bases and ships!!! (mingwo.com)

I found this size easy to deal with. I covered the cakes in mousseline and then decorated fondant. I took the cakes to the venue to assemble on site (already had straw supports in them). The bride wanted ribbon at the bottom of each tier so it was easy to put together (for another buttercream cake I did the same thing and brought a piping bag to pipe large dots at the bottom of each tier). It worked really well! I was a bit worried because the cake table was close to the dance floor and there was some very lively group dances that were happening too close for comfort to my cake!!! BUT they held up wonderfully just simply stacked!

Rose
06/18/2007 11:28 AM

any change made from what is called for will make a difference. less fat equals less moistness. but over-baking can also do that.

shelly.
06/18/2007 11:26 AM

Rose
i love the Cke Bible but i want to know if using 1% milk instead of 3whole milk makes a difference? my cake seemed a lil dry.

Rose
06/18/2007 11:23 AM

michelle, the cake should be soft and tender but not crumbly. i'm not sure if your test cake was just a small layer which would bake differently. or if you baked several large layers at the same time which would mean slower heat penetration. i would try baking just one 12 inch layer to verify and if it comes out well, then you know that if you bake more than one layer at a time you should consider raising the temperature by about 25 degrees for the first 10 minutes, giving the oven a chance to regain it's temperature.
certainly using half bleached all purpose flour (by weight not volume) will serve to make it firmer as well.

Rose
06/18/2007 11:19 AM

yasmin, thanks for reporting back. it will be helpful to know that almost all my butter cakes (not sponge) are meant to fill the pan between half and 2/3 full.

Anonymous
06/18/2007 11:01 AM

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for your questions and ideas. The wedding reception is at 6:00 pm. I have already spoken to the groom's mother about a supplement cake. She believes that the bride will be fine with the supplement cake in kitchen. Transportation... will be interesting. My friend who is more experienced with fondant told me that it will be harder to roll for a 14" and suggests I stick with the 12,9, 6 and supplement.

Diane

Theresa
06/18/2007 07:57 AM

Diane, I notice a lot of people mention that they supplement large party cakes with sheet cakes (back in the kitchen, where no one sees them). Would that be an option for you? Not sure how you are transporting the cake(s) ...

Yasmin
06/18/2007 06:02 AM

Rose,
I have just taken the All Occasion Downy Yellow cake out of the oven.....and it is absolutely heavenly. The texture and taste were just perfect. As it baked in 25-35 minutes, it has also been an indication that my oven temparatures were correct. The only thing is I baked it in 8" ring pans so the cake rose a little high and perhaps not very even. Also I did not have Magi strips. I plan to try it again and fill the pans a little less (the insistence on ring pans is because I need the shape for a 10-shape birthday cake). I haven't tried the yellow butter cake yet, maybe will try that too.
Thanks for a wonderful recipe
Yasmin.

Michelle
06/17/2007 10:07 PM

I made a wedding cake this weekend- the
White Cake with Raspberry Preserves and Mousseline Buttercream with the
Lemon Curd Addition. The flavours were amazing but the only problem I
had was with a crumbly cake. I had made a test cake and it turned out
fine, but the wedding cake layers (all 6 of them) were a bit on the
crumbly side. I noticed this even as I was filling & frosting them. I
followed the recipe to a "T" and the only differences that I could come
up with were the use of the baking strips for the wedding cake (never
used them before and they did do a nice job otherwise!) and using my
wedding cake pans (rather than a round cake pan I have for everyday
use). Would either of these lead to a crumbly cake? I just can't figure
it out. I used the same cake flour, butter, etc. in both the test run
and the wedding cake. I noticed a posting (after making them) about
using half all-purpose flour and half cake four which I will try in the
future, but still trying to solve this mystery...

Patrincia
06/17/2007 06:33 PM

Diane - I would take into consideration the time of the reception too... afternoon or late evening receptions you could get away with smaller portions of cake, but people typically have larger appetites around dinner time.

Patrincia
06/17/2007 03:57 PM

Hi Diane - Gee, I'm not sure what size wedding cake I would recommend for 200 guests. The 2 wedding cakes I did were both 14-10-6, and served 100 guests (not including the top tier). Both weddings served only the cake for dessert, and both weddings ended up having 1/4 - 1/2 of the bottom tier leftover, but I was assured by both families that the leftovers were quickly devoured within a couple of days :).

Have you asked the Bride-to-be what size cake slices she would like to serve to her guests? (that might help you figure out how much cake you'll need). Most people are surprised when I show them the size of the traditional 1x2x4 slice.

Diane
06/17/2007 03:12 PM

Hi Rose,

Thank you, I will check both of those manufacturers for the cake pans. I love The Cake Bible, can't wait for your new one. Recently purchased your Bread Bible, can't wait until after the wedding to starting trying some recipes.

Diane

Diane
06/17/2007 03:09 PM

Hi Rozanne,

Thanks, I do have a vendor's permit and checked McCall's yesterday. They did not have the size I was looking for nor the quality of pans. I haven't checked Creative Cutters... thanks I will look them up. BTW... did I tell you have to transport the wedding cake 2-1/2 hours away? Okay one issue at a time.

Diane

Diane
06/17/2007 03:07 PM

Hi Patrincia,

Thanks for your response. You have voiced one of my concerns, I most definitely do want to run out of cake. And you are right everytime I have prepared a cake for an occassion people always want more. There will a light dessert served at the end of the meal. So other than the light dessert the wedding cake is it. They are planning on serving all 3 tiers of the cake at the wedding. When I spoke to the bride last night she mentioned that she was originally planning on cutting the cake, several of us recommended that she have the caterers cut the cake so that the pieces are all the same size. Then they can still serve the cake if they wish. In your experience which sizes would you recommend in order make sure there is enough cake?

Thanks again,
Diane

Rose
06/17/2007 11:42 AM

diane, here's some helpful pan info from my upcoming book so current!
Parrish Magic Line carries all pans from 2 to 20 inches except for 17 and 19 inch
Sweet Celebration carries all pans from 2 to 18 inches except for 17 inches
Wilton carries all pans from 6 to 16 inches except for 7, 11, 13, and 15 inches

Rose
06/17/2007 11:40 AM

barbara, this question has come up several times. please do a search on the blog and you will find some interesting possibilities.

Rozanne
06/17/2007 10:05 AM

Diane,
Have you tried McCalls or Creative Cutters? If you are a business owner, McCalls also has a bakers warehouse which is not open to the public, but with a vendors' permit you can purchase items from there.
Rozanne
Toronto

Patrincia
06/17/2007 08:56 AM

Diane - I've made lots of cakes (incl 2 wed) using Rose's recipes, and I find people always want either a larger piece, or a 2nd piece of cake (because they are so much more delicious than most people have ever experienced), and I fear you might not have enough if you serve a 15-10-6 (even though the chart says that will be enough).

Some other factors to consider:
1) will cake be the only dessert served at this wedding? If so, you'll want to serve larger pieces.
2) will you be cutting the cake? If not, you'll want to make sure whoever does, knows what size the slices are supposed to be.
3) don't include the top tier in you final number of servings.

Diane
06/16/2007 10:46 PM

Hi Rose,

I made your White Cake with the Mousseline Buttercream for a bridal shower. The bride loved it and asked me to make the wedding cake for her. I was originally told there were approximatly 100 guests... I just found out that there are 190 guests. Gulp! This is my first attempt at a wedding cake. In looking in The Cake Bible you recommend for 200 people 2x15, 2x10 and 2x6. I can't find a 15" round cake pan anywhere. I even checked the website for Magic Line and Chicago Metallic.

Do you have any other recommendations for a 3 tier cake that would accommodate 200 people and be esthetically pleasing? The wedding is in 5 weeks and I live in Toronto Canada.

Thanks
Diane

Matthew
06/16/2007 08:56 PM

Barbara,
Refer to the introduction to the Showcase cakes section (page 164 in my book). Rose gives instructions on making cupcakes there.

Barbara
06/16/2007 05:24 PM

Hi Rose
I have made your recipe for Perfect All American Chocolate Butter Cake from the Cake Bible. It has a wonderful taste! However, my problem is that when using the same recipe to make cupcakes, the cake pulls away from the cupcake wrapper which does not allow me to frost or decorate the cupcakes as needed. Last time I made the recipe for 150 and did not have the same issue. I'm assuming it's because I used a different proportion of baking powder?? Can you give me some pointers about adapting the recipe for cupcakes (2.5" size)so that the final result will not pull away from the sides. I baked the cupcakes for about 16 minutes and used about one quarter cup of batter per cupcake.

Elicia
06/16/2007 07:01 AM

Oh Hector, the math was super! Everyone who bakes in volumes (especially those tiered wedding cakes) shld have the template! And those paddles are really an interesting part of the Hawaiian culture!

I think choc wld work very well for what you are planning to do. Do get started and keep us posted!

And I was thinking... with all the egg yolks left - you shld try the Golden Genoise - it's really nice, sort of a cross between a butter cake and a genoise!

Hector
06/15/2007 08:59 PM

OMG, Elicia, your bear cake with it's fondant wagon train sounds too good to miss seeing. Do post some pics when the camera returns!

THANK YOU for the tips on Creme Ivoire. I will note these down, but may need to save this for the next project. At the present moment, I don't have much white chocolate to spare =(

However, I think the answer was on Cake Bible all this time! Since the cake will be frosted with Mousseline Buttercream, I will try the variations with chocolate. To achieve the reds, yellows, and oranges, I will use the variations with fruit!

I was mostly concerned on using a shell coat like Creme Ivoire to prevent the foil to stick to the cake during freezing and thawing. Since this cake doesn't have any piped borders or swags, I think a little uneven frosting will just compliment the theme of the cake: canoes, paddles, wood, and a rouchy group of 800 to 1000 Yacht Club people! I added a picture of some wood paddles in the link (also more mind blogging math!)

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/YachtClub.html

I can't wait to get started, I am just taking TOO LONG with the design, engineering, and logistics!

Elicia
06/15/2007 08:21 PM

I've always used food colouring for white choc - it takes on any shade easily. Alternatively the more ethereal petal dusts which can be painted on wet (with a colourless liquor) or dry.

Natural colourings - maybe raspberry puree, lemon curd and blood orange curd?? Juices may be too liquid. Not sure if it works though, so you'll have to experiment!

Oh BTW, I've made a dark choc shell glaze before, using clarified butter up to 10-15% of the choc weight. It is a little more brittle than Creme Ivoire. Note Creme Ivoire is not brittle although it is firm to the touch and doesn't smudge.

Oh Patrincia, my husband just took the camera on a short business trip before I cld download the bear pics. Will upload it next week, ok?

Patrincia
06/15/2007 06:26 PM

Hmmm - pomegranate juice for the cherry wood, and blood orange juice for the mango wood maybe??? (sounds risky to me though)

Why don't you want to use food coloring? (I've seen molded white chocolate "painted" with powdered food coloring that has been mixed with melted cocoa butter, and I've seen it dry brushed directly from the powdered form too).

Hector
06/15/2007 04:47 PM

I am looking for a orange tint, like mango wood which is dark orange. Also for a reddish tint, like cherry wood. Also a blonde tint, like oak wood.

Patrincia
06/15/2007 02:57 PM

Hector - I don't know what colors you are looking for exactly, but can you mix small amounts of dark and/or milk chocolate into your white chocolate to get various wood shades?

Hector
06/15/2007 02:12 PM

Rose, I will try creme ivoire with dark chocolate, and call it creme ébène! I think if my layers are covered with a hard chocolate "shell," then it won't stick so much to the wrappings when frozen and during thawing???

Does anyone know how can I tint white chocolate in shades of blonde and mango wood? I prefer not to use food coloring. Ancient canoe paddles made of strips of different woods are different pieces of brown colors (which I will achieve with dark chocolate), reds, blondes, and mango!

Juliana
06/15/2007 01:11 PM

Hi Patrincia,
No, I don't have an airconditioned kitchen.

Rose
06/15/2007 09:38 AM

i created crème ivoire specifically for white chocolate. dark chocolate works perfectly as ganache for both frosting and glazing and has a more mellow flavor with the cream. but if you want to do a dark chocolate along the lines of the crème ivoire you'll need a little more oil as dark chocolate is firmer. you'll need to experiment.

Patrincia
06/15/2007 08:47 AM

Elicia - can you post a link to a photo of your bear cake?

Elicia
06/15/2007 01:40 AM

Hi Hector, I'm not sure if dark choc works the same way as white choc in Creme Ivoire. Technically, the cocoa butter percentages are different, so I wld assume it will not work the same. Perhaps Rose wld advise better? One other way is to tint the Creme Ivoire in shades of brown for the effect you are trying to achieve.

In reviewing the sugar syrup proportions again, I think you shld replace the water portion with espresso for a more pronounced espresso flavour. In any case, I think you shld make a batch of 'trial' syrup, soak a small biscuit and adjust taste to your desire!

On metric, we use it here too. The Pyrex liquid measure has both cup measurements and metric. Thkfully, Rose's Bibles have all forms of measurements!

Mmm... just completed a 3D bear cake for a 5-year old. The request was for vanilla white choc, so I made the Golden Luxe Butter Cake again, used white choc mousseline (tinted light pinkish brown) with a coating of milk choc shavings. I made a little fondant train with 4 carriages - each one for one candle so that the candles don't get poked on the bear! The train was placed in front of the bear on a round cake base.

Hector
06/14/2007 02:47 PM

Regarding baking on large pans, have anybody tried this?

For a 14" cake: use a 14" pan, place a 14" pan in the center, pour the cake batter on the 14" pan only and bake. You get a 14" "cake ring." Then bake a 12" cake by itself and place it in the center of the cake ring.

Or, you can put cake batter on the 14" and on the 12" too, and bake them together?

This is for Biscuit de Savoie, a cake without chemical leavening, and most of its rise is a factor of cake pan support.

Patrincia
06/14/2007 06:32 AM

Juliana - I also didn't realize there were differences between the tablespoon measurements used around the globe - fascinating! Singapore sounds like an interesting place to bake. Do you bake in an airconditioned kitchen?

Juliana
06/13/2007 10:10 PM

Hi Patrincia,

Actually, I mentioned the difference between the US and metric cups because like Hector, I thought all cup measurements were the same and since we use 250ml cups in Singapore, I measured all my ingredients using 250ml cups. Just imagine me following an American recipe using my cup and then filling my pan with batter after mixing. The batter would be a lot more than what you would get in the US.

Some shops have started to sell US cups now.

It is also confusing when measuring dry ingredients like flour. Before I knew of the stir, dip-and-sweep method, I used to pack and heap-scoop.

Also, in a humid climate like Singapore (according to our National Environment Agency, our mean relative humidity is 80+ percent, less during the hot afternoons, but can get to 100% during prolonged heavily rain), scooping flour in a non-airconditioned kitchen here will give different results compared to the US.

Another confusing thing is the tablespoon. In the US and UK, one tablespoon is 15ml (about 3 teaspoons). In Australia and New Zealand, one tablespoon is 20ml (4 tsps). In Singapore, some shops sell 20ml tablespoons and some sell 15ml tablespoons.

Sometimes I see recipes that don't mention the volume of the tablespoons or the cups and they are not American recipes, so I can't ascertain what kind of cups or tablespoons they use.

That's why metric is more accurate.

Hector, in Rose's recipe for Classic Buttercream (pg 228), 1/2C of water is 118g. So, assuming that she fills her cup full for 1C, we can say that 1C is 236g. So ....you know about the density of water thing.... that's how I found out that one US cup = 236ml.

Patrincia
06/13/2007 03:43 PM

Hi Juliana - yes I can do the calculations for the volume website Hector shared (my response to him was meant to be figurative), however I wasn't thinking about any difference between 1 US cup and one metric cup, so I'm thankful you mentioned it. PS - happily take full advantage of Rose's volume chart in The Cake Bible :)

Hector
06/13/2007 01:48 PM

Juliana, I wish we all just do metric, it is much easier than using fractions in inches and oz! I am in the USA, and I have set my scale in metric, because the math in grams is just easier and perhaps more accurate.

I thought 1 cup was 250 cc, oh mine. It must have come from my training in metric.

Elicia, for 1 recipe of Biscuit de Savoie, Rose calls for 175 grams sugar, 355 grams water, and 90 grams of liqueur. I am planning to replace the liqueur with espresso shots in volume not in weight, because I think that the liqueur weight is different than the espresso weight. So, (in CB) 90 grams of liqueur is 6 tablespoons (tb), thus I plan to use 6 tb espresso shots, 175 grams sugar, and 335 grams water. I may need to run trials because this cake needs to have a prominent coffee message (the coffee is donated by a famous Italian brand) but it can't be overpowering that will affect children (the cake is for a family style venue).

By the way, 1 espresso shot is 1 oz (volume). You can also make a shot in 2 oz but it is a little weaker (lungo). 6 tb is 3.17 oz (volume), so that is 3.17 shots! It doesnt seem that much right? Math is something I was the best back in grade school, but that was years ago..... it is slowly coming back!

If I find white chocolate, I will make Creame Ivoire! Do you know if I can make it with dark chocolate too? Or a mix of both? My layers should be each of different shades of koa wood as used on many of the very nice canoe paddles in Hawaii.

Juliana
06/13/2007 01:19 PM

Patrincia,

Regarding Hector's link on calculating batter volume (June 11, 4.23pm),

One US cup is 236 cubic centimetres.
One inch is 2.54 centimetres.

To calculate an example,
an 8" round 2" high tin has a radius of 4".

If you convert the radius and height into centimetres, it would be 10.16cm for radius and 5.08cm for height.

Insert the 2 values into the link that he provided, and you will get a volume of 1648.07 .......

Since 236 cubic cm = 1 US cup
then 1648+ cubic cm is approx 7 US cups.

(I took 1648 divided by 236 and the answer is 6.9+ US cups, round it off to 7).

Of course, Rose has already simplified the job for us by giving us a table of standard pan sizes and their volumes in cups on page 455 of The Cake Bible, but the link that Hector provided is good for those of us who use the metric system. Also, one US cup is not the same volume as one metric cup.

Rose
06/13/2007 08:35 AM

storage or keeping instructions are listed for every recipe in the book in the sidebar! it's one year for this one.

Elicia
06/12/2007 09:16 PM

Hi Hector, I've used espresso to moist genoises, and I usually use 2/3 espresso combined with 1/3 Kahlua. The Kahlua sweetens it so I don't use syrup. If liquor is not an option, I guess you have to taste it - I guess just 1 tbsp of heavy syrup shld be sufficient - for 5 tbsp espresso. Mine didn't taste faint, but then I'm not that particular as I'm not exactly a coffee fan!

I'm not sure if Creme Ivoire freezes well but I reckon it shld. Rose may be able to answer you on this. My son just scoops up the excess Creme Ivoire into his mouth everytime I make some!

Oh I love genoise and biscuits, and the multiple fillings I can try with them! I also love the way it perfumes the house when I bake one - you know that unmistakable smell of eggs baking! I wld say I'm more of a "cake-mad housewife" than queen of biscuits! Haha!

BTW, I hope you won't have to resort to takeouts! Your little dog wld suffer too! Styrofoam boxes are also great for gradual defrosting. We get them here in various sizes and they are truly inexpensive, though they take up a lot of space.
Oh Wanda, I have one small tub of those expensive pearl dust - you've tempted me to try them out real soon! It really adds a nice lustre to the cake! Bravo!

Hector
06/12/2007 03:49 PM

Me again, testing your palate. Have you used espresso coffee to moist genoise or biscuit? If so, how much? I am thinking on just replacing the liquor 1 for 1 in volume with espresso shots. For example, for 1 recipe of biscuit de savoie, Rose calls for 6 tb of liquor, I would replace that with 6 tb of espresso shots. Is this too faint since it will be diluted with the syrup. I wont use liquor on the syrup (I can't).

Jennifer Schmitt
06/12/2007 11:38 AM

The best way to describe a cool room is, it's basically a giant fridge.

Veronica, it sounds like what we call (in the US) a walk-in or walk-in refrigerator.

Jennifer

Hector
06/12/2007 02:14 AM

Elicia, you are getting me hooked with Creme Ivoire!! Do you know if it will freeze well? I plan to bake, fill and frost, and freeze until the day of the party. Great tips on the "layers" of Biscuit, seems like you are the Queen of Biscuit =) Regarding measuring with cups, I do the same, too, but I was a little bored at work today, so I decided to use some math!

Wanda, I really thought your roses were silk. Beautiful.

Veronica, thanks for the cool room. I plan to make the cake in 3 stages (larger tiers one day, middle tiers another day, and small tiers another day). I will bake, fill and frost each segment, and freeze. Yes, this is my confession than on D-day, the cake will not be "fresh." So I estimate, all I need is a rather large freezer, and for the thawing days, I will stick the frozen cake in boxes and insulated with layers of paper, so the thawing is gradual. I have just asked a friend at a local restaurant supply store if I can loan a freezer =) Otherwise, I will need to do take out for about a month -)

Veronica
06/12/2007 02:03 AM

Butchers use cool rooms to keep their meat cold. Restaurants would have cool rooms. Florists use them to store their flowers. The room can be any size and has a compressor to cool it. Can be whatever temperature you want. It has a thermostat and you select the temperature you want. I just thought since you are taking on such a mammoth project time is obviously a factor. If you had a cool room you could start cooking now and store your cakes. The best way to describe a cool room is, it's basically a giant fridge. I remember reading one of your posting and you said "Cake in progress keep out unless starving." I'm assuming it's your fridge at home. Know any one who has a cool room?

Jennifer Schmitt
06/11/2007 11:54 PM

Update:
I made a fresh batch of rose's classic buttercream and used Guittard semisweet morsels (I decided not to mess around with store brand). Although I like the flavor of the mousseline better, I think the classic is more straight forward and I didn't want to waste another pound of butter; it's getting so expensive! I really wanted the butter to be soft so I put it into the microwave, which was slightly warm inside, to rest. MISTAKE! The butter was in pools at the bottom. I could have cried, but at least I knew it wouldn't be too cold! I went ahead and mixed it in because I knew that I could always cool it down. It came out pretty good. Soft, but it didn't seize!!! woot! Thanks everyone. So glad I knew that I could come back and ask more questions!
Jen

Matthew
06/11/2007 11:41 PM

Wanda--you did a really nice job with the pearls and roses. I thought the pearls were beads you had bought until I read this.

Wanda LaLoggia
06/11/2007 11:31 PM

Elicia, Each layer was baked in 2" pans,(White Velvet buttercake) I used a french vanilla buttercream between the layers and as a crumb coating. (I wanted to use lemon curd, but the bride doesn't like lemon.) The cake was covered in fondant & I used fondant for both the pearls and the flowers. For the pearls, I made the balls and placed them in a plastic container, put in a dash of Super Pearl Luster dust and gave it a good shaking. Worked Great! For the roses, I made the roses from fondant,let them dry for a day &then painted them with Super Pearl luster dust mixed with vodqa. I used Blue Sparkle Sparkle Dust for the Blue ones.
Wanda

Elicia
06/11/2007 11:30 PM

Hi Hector, You can use Creme Ivoire over mousseline or silk meringue. I've used it over both types of buttercream. You may need to chill the buttercream frosting a little before applying the glaze. Do work very fast though as the cold buttercream surface will make the glaze set pretty fast (noting that white choc reacts very fast to change of temperature). But don't worry as the glaze does not get brittle hard.

Just a thought - for the larger biscuits, you may want to bake them in thinner layers (as per my earlier comment on 1" sheet), then the texture may not suffer as much. You can even bake 1" rectangular sheets and cut out your large rounds from them - then to compensate for the height, you can add more layers to come up to a 3" height cake (shld take 4 layers). For 1" height pans, you shld fill them to just 1/8" below the edge of the pan, the biscuit shld rise a little above the pan and that wld basically be the top crust part.

Your maths look pretty much in place! Mind boggling though. Sometimes when I need to work out the volumes, I just fill the regular pan with water and pour it into the one I want to use to see how it fills up! Pretty primitive! Haha!

Hector
06/11/2007 09:07 PM

Matthew, I've updated my chart, and added the circumferences too. I need to know how many inches of coffee beans to use!

Hector
06/11/2007 08:29 PM

Matthew, again I appreciate your input and keep it coming. This is truly a group study.

You are right. And even worse, since my base factor is on the 9", I may be factoring in too much extra for the larger cakes! Let me redo my chart "exact" and then add a little only after the final number. I still want to make extra, since this type of cake is so versatile for many thing I like to do almost on a weekly basis.

YES, regarding the texture changes on larger than 12". I am studying Genoise vs Biscuit de Savoie. I am expeting Biscuit de Savoie to have stronger structure than Genoise because of the extra corn starch and lack of butter. Biscuit de Savoie is rather more rubbery and dry than Genoise. If my 14" layer fails I might line the center of the 14" pan with a smaller pan acting like a cake tube (and perhaps I should find a way to eat failed Biscuit de Savoie cakes).

Another reason I am leaning toward Biscuit de Savoie is because you whip the whites separate than the yolks, thus you won't need a mixer as large as whipping for Genoise. In any case, the project is still big. This is the true test with my new Matfer 14.5" circumference balloon whisk I've just got from JB Prince.

Matthew
06/11/2007 07:38 PM

Hector,
Your math looks correct. I only have a couple of comments. In my experience, Rose's recipes already have a certain amount of generosity built in. I can understand you want room for error, but by the time you have reached the large cakes, your total margin will have been the equivalent of 2 9x1.5 cakes--that seems like a lot! Without the margin, I estimate you could make this with 5 recipes of the biscuit, and still have a little extra room. My other concern is Rose's warning about texture changes for sponge cakes over 12 inches.

Hector
06/11/2007 06:42 PM

Patrincia, I guess we need to convert from cubic inches into liters and then frmo liters into cups!!!

Hector
06/11/2007 06:36 PM

updated link (spelling,too)

I have started to do the real work. I spent 2 hours on the drawing table trying to remember how to find the volume of a cylinder to estimate the amount of cake batter. If you don't mind, check out my math. I am making the following assumption:

1 recipe of biscuit de savoie is for 3 9x1.5" pans. I am using 2" pans, and I do want to whip a little extra cake batter each time (just in case or else bake extra layers and freeze for future use); so, I am assuming that 1 recipe of biscuit de savoie is for 2 9x2" pans (3 9x1.5" is a total of 4.5"; 2 9x1.5" is a total of 4"; so there is an extra 0.5").

So, for the 3 5 6 6 7 9 9 10 12 12 and 14" pans multiplied by Pi, radius, alpha, beta, john, doe, and sue, divided, square out, multiplied, blah, blah, blah the results per pan are (in batch quantity):

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/YachtClub.html

I may also need to take into account that biscuit de savoie may not bake well or rise high on pans larger than 9" due to lack of side support!

Enjoy, if you may

Jennifer Schmitt
06/11/2007 06:03 PM

thanks everyone. i'm gonna make up a test batch tonight...can't take the suspense! tune in tomorrow for results!

jen

Patrincia
06/11/2007 05:30 PM

Hector - cool, but it doesn't give you the volume in cups, just meters, feet, etc. How do we use this calculator for baking?

Hector
06/11/2007 04:23 PM

Jennifer, I think either the chocolate or the buttercream are too cold when you do the incorporation.

I found a pretty neat way to calculate the batter volume for large cakes: http://www.online-calculators.co.uk/volumetric/cylindervolume.php

Patrincia
06/11/2007 04:09 PM

Jennifer - you said you refrigerated the buttercream, but brought it to room temp before you added your chocolate to it. I wonder if any condensation formed on the surface of your buttercream?

I recently made a batch of ganache that turned out perfectly. I chilled it for a few hours, then let it sit at room temp for a little while before whipping it in my mixer. While the ganache sat out of the refrigerator, some condensation formed on it's surface, causing my whole batch to seize within moments of turning my mixer on.

It's possible your buttercream had some condensation on it, which then mixed with your chocolate, causing it to seize.

Jennifer Schmitt
06/11/2007 03:12 PM

hi lori
Im in S. Orange County, near Mission Viejo.
JEn

Hector
06/11/2007 03:09 PM

Thank you all for your suggestions. Really really much much appreciated. Good to know that you prefer the beans covered, and that it will be a labor of love (and sweat). Let me check my priorities.

Veronica, what is a cool room? how is it designed? what is the temperature?

Elicia, I will check out the Creme Ivoire. Looks like a good touch. Will it hold over Mouseline Buttercream? or does it need to be classic buttercream?

Vreeke
06/11/2007 02:53 PM

Jennifer,
Just wondering where you live in Southern California? I am located in Westlake Village, north of LA.
Lori V.
Pastries By Vreeke

Theresa
06/11/2007 02:21 PM

Hector - I love the paddle man! Wanda - what a lovely cake!

Jennifer Schmitt
06/11/2007 12:31 PM

Jennifer - is there any chance any moisture got into your chocolate or buttercream?

I don't think so. The buttercream had been refrigerated, but was at room temp when the chocolate was incorporated. There was no seizing of the chocolate, that I could see.
Jen

Patrincia
06/11/2007 11:59 AM

Hector - I love chocolate covered coffee beans, but I woudn't eat one that wasn't covered in chocolate. have you thought about using little balls of chocolate fondant? (cheap and easy to make)

Patrincia
06/11/2007 11:57 AM

Hector - I love chocolate covered coffee beans, but I woudn't eat one that isn't covered in chocolate. have you thought about using little balls of chocolate fondant?

Patrincia
06/11/2007 11:55 AM

Jennifer - is there any chance any moisture got into your chocolate or buttercream?

Jen N
06/11/2007 11:43 AM

Hi Aviva. I have found that cupcakes pull away from their liners when overbaked (as rose said), and also when they have been covered or put in an airtight container before they have completely cooled. Are you allowing them to cool? - just another thought....

Jennifer Schmitt
06/11/2007 10:52 AM

Help! I'm having a problem with seeding in my buttercream! I have been making Rose's classic buttercream and mousseline buttercream for a long time with great results. Recently, when I make a chocolate buttercream the chocolate is lumping or seeding when I add it to the frosting. The only change is that I used to live in Pittsburgh and now I live in Southern California. I know that I can seive it out, but I 'd prefer it not to happen. Can anyone advise? BTW I always use real chocolate not "chocolate" melts.

Zach Townsend
06/11/2007 09:16 AM

Correction to what I stated above as I was typing too fast: when I said "but in this case, using coating chocolate and hand dipping just doesn't seem worth the effort."

I meant to say "using couverture (or real chocolate) and hand dipping doesn't seem worth the effort."

Zach

Zach Townsend
06/11/2007 09:13 AM

Hector,

For that type of decor that many people might not eat, I would go with coating chocolate (i.e., chocolate with the cocoa butter replaced with another vegetable fat). I would do this for these reasons: It's a lot less expensive, you don't have to worry about tempering the chocolate, it's just a small decor part of the cake that many people will skip over. I never advocate using coating chocolate for anything on a cake that contributes a significant portion of the cake, but in this case, using coating chocolate and hand dipping just doesn't seem worth the effort.

I would think covering in caramel would be too stick of a mess for the little beans, trying to handle and place them.

If you do want to coat them in coating chocolate, I would put them in a bowl and then ladle the chocolate over them and quickly fold them with a large rubber spatula to coat them. Turn them out onto parchment and spread them out as quickly as possible to keep them from sticking. Not really having experience with coating chocolate, I'm not sure how quickly it will set, but you'll have to work quickly to separate them. Try it with a small batch first and see if you like it.

Otherwise, purchase them chocolate covered, but I'm sure the expense will be greater.

Good luck.
Zach

Elicia
06/11/2007 08:54 AM

Hi Wanda - Yes, lovely cake! Do do fill us in on the specifics - the roses looked like pulled sugar - was it the colouring or petal dust?

Oh Hector, Creme Ivoire is on pg 248. Follow Rose's advice of using only 6 tbsp oil for warm weather - and you'll get a pretty firm glaze. Not to worry though as white choc reacts very quickly to change of temp, so the texture is really melt in the mouth. I like using white choc coz it's faint choc flavour marries well with other non-choc flavours, especially citrus. It is ivory in colour, so you can tint it into any colour you wish! It will give you a very smooth texture finish (sort of like fondant) and unlike buttercream, it doesn't smudge easily. I poked at it lightly (the bunnycake) and it held up well although I can feel the very soft buttercream underneath. Yet the glaze did not crack or smudge!

BTW, ever considered coating the coffee beans in caramel?

Rose
06/11/2007 06:16 AM

it does sound like it has to be overbaking. but if you bake at a lower temp. they may dip in the center. try heavier pan or even doubling the pan if you have two of them. also silicone mini muffin pans baked directly in the pan should work perfectly but be sure to put the pan on a rack and then on a baking sheet for even baking.

aviva capland
06/11/2007 03:42 AM

Hi rose,
Do you have any suggestions for making mini cupcakes? They all seem to pull away from the papers as they cool. I know you've said this happens when overbaked, but it seems to happen evwn when not overbaked. Should I try baking at a lower temp? What about using a heavier muffin tin. The one I use is sort of lightweight. Any suggestions would be helpful. Aviva

Matthew
06/11/2007 02:05 AM

Hector,
You can buy good espresso roast beans already covered in chocolate--save yourself some time, you're going to need it. I have done both as a border. In my experience, most people will not eat the plain bean unless they are told they can. My favorite is to alternate 1 covered and a few uncovered--it looks like strand of beads.

Veronica
06/11/2007 12:13 AM

Hector I wish I could lend you my cool room. I have a 14 pallet space cool
room, 1 pallet is about 2 m x 2 m. You could start baking cakes now and
store them. For my wedding I had a horrible fruit cake that was as hard as
a brick. One bite and you'd be 3 times over the legal blood alcohol. The
marzipan was 2 inches thick. My dad's comment "Don't throw it at a wall you
might just put a hole in it." The cake decorator said I had to do it this
way because it had to support the weight. The cake was beautiful to look at
but I never actually ate any. I have to say, I don't think anyone will want
to eat your cake. It's kind of like going to a restaurant that cost $500 a
plate. It's food to look at and admire not for eating.

Hector
06/10/2007 11:13 PM

If plan to lay coffee beans at the base of each layer size change, instead of a piped border. Should I chocolate cover each bean, and if so, how? I've seen the ladies at Big Island Candies hand dip each bean on tempered chocolate. Or if I just use the plain beans, do you think it will be palatable? For sure it will smell good though.

Patrincia
06/10/2007 06:06 PM

Wanda - great job! Can you share the specifics with us? How many people did it serve? What were the sizes of the tiers? Was there a texturized finish on the fondant? etc.

Hector
06/10/2007 04:25 PM

Elicia and Veronica, your engineering tips are much appreciated! Cake is called: Crazy Tiers Safe as Houses. Depending on my timeline and resources, I may even add more tiers with my oval, square, hexagon, or heart shaped pans! The cake is suppose to feed at least 500 people (there will be 800 to 1000 guests, but I am assuming not everyone will want). Or maybe I will just make extra sheet cakes to do all the initial cutting and serving, since I don't want this cake to be demolished so fast!

What page of Cake Bible is the Creme Ivoire Glaze? Is this the recipe with white chocolate or with dark chocolate? I haven't done much work with white chocolate, and for sure I don't think I want to buy some of it at this time, since I still have my 11 lb. block of dark chocolate! I don't want my dark chocolate to get jealous of competition, silly me.

Wanda, your cake is gorgeous. 5 tall tiers! I get the same comment when I make a fancy decorated cake for birthdays, too fancy that people expect it not to be very palatable. Everyone is pale from eating so much food and receive a slice of cake without a smile. But then, at first bite, they say "this thing tastes good" I've spent decades trying to make cakes that tastes good, EVERYTHING from Cake Bible does, each cake has its own flavor highlight. I grew up near exquisite European style patisseries; my family will always take a good first bite of my cakes and think for 5 minutes, only to say "something is missing, the flavor is not right yet."

Amanda, your pina colada syrup on the genoise or biscuit will taste good. I would say, if you want to incorporate the coconut flavor, too, you can try adding the coconut on the frosting or filling (not on the cake). I find the cakes more multidimensional and interesting to taste, when one flavor is on the frosting and a complimentary flavor is on the cake. You can play with textures, too, like a smooth filling vs a bite crunchy frosting (ground fresh coconut or shavings for example).

I feel that genoise or biscuit has such fragrance and crispness that adding a syrup on it makes a good marriage of flavors and texture. For me a genoise or biscuit feels and tastes like freshly baked cake crumbs (scrape and smell those cake crusts that gets stuck on your cooling rack and you will know what I am talking about).

My biscuit will be flavored with syrup and coffee (Illy for sure). Frosting is Mouseline Buttercream will Kahlua. For me, it is almost mandatory buttercreams need a good amount of strong liquor, the bitterness of the liquor compliments and cuts off the sweetness and grease factor of the buttercream. I like to believe that as long as I frost the cake 24 hours in advance, the alcohol is evaporated.

Rose
06/10/2007 03:09 PM

yasmin, woody wolston just tested the chocolate cake in the 10 cup cast aluminum pan and it took 5 minutes less time to bake so if you haven't already made it, start checking 5 minutes earlier!

Rose
06/10/2007 03:05 PM

génoise or biscuit for sure!

Amanda
06/10/2007 03:00 PM

Hi Rose

I am planning a 3-tiered wedding cake for my tropical wedding reception and have been using your book to assist with this. Question, I am most interested in a coconut cake soaked with your pina colada syrup and am wondering if it would be better to use your genoise recipe or butter cake recipe to create this variation? My initial thought is to fill the cake with pineapple curd and cover with a rum-laced buttercream but would welcome any suggestions.

Thanks for taking the time to upkeep this blog! GREAT reading : )

Rose
06/10/2007 02:58 PM

ditto! and that's the exact comment i got on one of my first wedding cakes! it was from a little boy (as overheard by me)

Rose
06/10/2007 02:56 PM

joan--that's so sad--maybe you'll have invented a new cake! just make the lemon sauce without any sugar since it appaers you added it all to the batter. let us know what happens!

Zach Townsend
06/10/2007 02:53 PM

Wanda,

Looks beautiful and I love the colors. Congratulations!

Zach

Wanda LaLoggia
06/10/2007 02:03 PM

Rose, Zach, and everyone who helped me pull off this effort, I just wanted to says "Thanks" for all your help and advice. The wedding cake (White Velvet Buttercake) was beautiful and absolutely delicious. The best compliment I received was a surprised remark from my cousin, who said, "This cake is delicious! Wedding cake isn't supposed to taste good? This is wonderful!"

Here's a link to one of the many pictures that I took of the finished product.
http://www.jayandwanda.com/practiceCake/Wedding/pages/Reception71.htm

Again. Thank you all so very much.

Wanda

Joan
06/10/2007 12:34 PM

OMG - I am making lemon poppy sed cake - I am so organized - the cake is whipping away with all its ingredients - I have laid out the lemon sauce 'mis en place'- I put the sugar in the cake maxture, the egg mixture, pour it in its pan and whoosh into the oven.
And then I turn to make the lemon sauce - where is the sugar? You guessed it. So I guess I will come up with a lemon praline, or something grotesque. I thoought I would share this because I guess it is a good lesson for me... I am thinking of making the lemon sauce less sugary if the cake is even salvageable. Oh sigh. joan

Rose
06/10/2007 09:14 AM

hector--this cake will belong in a museum. i hope they ask you to make a "fake" version that is on permanent display. bravo!!!

Elicia
06/10/2007 07:57 AM

Oh Hector, this will be 'the cake' yet! All your preparations seem in place. Some suggestions:

When you make the man, you may want to extend the portion below the foot that is grounded (make a rectangular piece) - you can then pierce that caramel part into the cake and it shld be sturdy enough to hold the man up (like a stake).

Oh, I love to reiterate that you try Creme Ivoire Glaze over the buttercream - it really serves to seal in the buttercream and prevent the frosting from softening too much in the heat. Sort of like a thin layer of fondant, but so much more delicious.

I wld love to come, but my husband wld think I've really gone nuts if I told him I want to go to Hawaii to help make a cake!!

Veronica
06/10/2007 01:02 AM

Hector. You seem to be taking on a mammoth project. Please post lots of pictures when the masterpiece is finished. My birth place is Madeira and over there their wedding cakes a sponge cake and cream, delicious. As you know sponge cake cannot support any weight. What they do over there is take the cake design to a carpenter and he makes a frame for the cake. So what you end up with is cake plates and pillars between the tiers all glued and screwed together. Kind of like a skeleton model of the cake. Then the cake decorator decorates the structure and adds the cakes. And therefore the cake is not having to support the weight of other cakes. Safe as houses. Doing it this way you could have a 10 tier cake even. Well that's my 2 cents worth. Can't wait to see pictures.

Hector
06/10/2007 12:01 AM

Elicia......I was just going to remove the extra cake tiers to make it more traditional!!! I like your words, so you just helped me name this cake Crazy Stack of Tiers!

Thanks for the tip on making 1" genoise sheets, much appreciated...

Today was a day of inspiration. I went to the mall to get eyeglasses fixed, and bumped into a French Japanese Jewerly Patisserie (they describe themself like such), called La Palme D'Or, it was designed by Iron Chef Sakai. I promise to take pictures of their pastries next time (the owner was happy to let me). I had the most exquisite and refined berry tart with awesome fresh raspberries, black berries, other berries, and subdue strawberries. Luca had a croissant (fresh, crisp, not oily). Then for lunch we spend my $50 gift card at Mariposa, the lobster fettucine was heavenly and my heirloom tomato salad out of this word. Even the lentil -soup of the day- was crafty!

Then, I bumped into a Hawaiian craft shop and found a real paddle. The most beautiful paddles are done with mixed shades of wood, beautiful. I think I will try to capture those wood colors and color the mouseline buttercream. You can google for paddles and see many pictures.

I also found a Hawaii petroglyph paddler ornament, and after HOURS of thinking, I narrowed it to use this motif for the cake. Trying to incorporate all recent success (and utilizing all extra left over ingredients), I will make this man with the caramel topper method. I will slice almonds in half, lay them white side down on a piece of foil, and use these almonds to trace and fill the man shape; head, arms, legs, paddle and all. Then pour caramel over it. I think it will be VERY sturdy. How about this as the cake topper? It will need to be pretty big man, so the paddle handle doesn't look to thick since it will be made of almonds. I think the colors of the almond and caramel will combine fairly well with the overall colors of wood paddles.

I am going to get a Hawaiian cultural advisor, to see if I place copper topper pieces around the man would be appropriate, perhaps it will look like the man is burning. Someone suggested to shape these as surf waves, but brown ocean water is something we are not used to seen here!

Thanks for the advice to make the bottom layers butter cake, but I am known to never listen to anyone =( ALL LAYERS will be Biscuit de Savoie, lets say I want to draw my record and then retire to another type of cake. Supporting the cakes on top of each other will not be a variable, I don't plan to support nothing on nothing, I can't take chances of a disaster, so each tier will have its own hidden cake plate and instead of straws or wood pegs I am going to fit some plastic pipes or hollow tubing (perhaps the hidden pillars, like the ones from Wilton, might be sturdy enough). I am getting my cake plates (smooth edge) and hidden pillars from a restaurant supply store, these seem to be readily available and rather inexpensive. The cake topper man will need to be stuck onto its own type of support, too, since I estimate this man to be almost as wide as the bottom cake tier! (I may drill each cake plate in the center, then insert a big tube thru the entire cake height). The man and myself need to be seen!

Here is a picture of the man http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/YatchClub.html

I am going to make "curved" version of the petroglyph with tempered chocolate, tall enough to lay them on the sides of the taller cake tiers (12, 9, and 6"). Make these ahead of time, so no need to pipe these during cake frosting. To make these curved, I will use the cake pan itself, attach two empty pans with tape, lay them with parchment and pipe the tempered chocolate on it. I just think if these men are curved like the cake, they will look a little more interesting.

Anyways, my friends are already worry that I am loosing sleep designing this. The party is July 28th. Elicia, you DO LIVE close to me, I am in the middle of your ocean half way to the continental USA anyways.

Please... DO TELL ME..... if you find a technical glitch on my thinking.

Elicia
06/09/2007 10:09 PM

Oh Hector, I love the crazy stack of tiers. I think the cake will be lovely. Wish I lived near enough to come give you a hand!

You may want to consider making the bottom layers from butter cake - for better support!

BTW, I sometimes bake my genoise in 1" high sheet pans - as large as 15" square - you just have to work out your volumes. I usually increase the temp slightly to 375F and it bakes within 12-15mins. I love the height of the cake for multiple tiers (after removing top crust - it just below 1" high) - and I don't have to mess with slicing the cake into tiers!

Rose
06/08/2007 02:40 PM

hector, just a suggestion: when doing something of this scale and for charity, you could try contacting a chocolate manufacturer to ask for a donation giving them credit at the event. it takes a little work getting through the the right person--i think it's pr--but i know you can do it--if not this time, for future events!

Hector
06/08/2007 01:13 PM

Rose, glad to know where are your priorities. It will benefit all of us when the book is out! Thanks Zach.

Yes, Cake Bible has the answer. Thanks. Now, I am trying to find the most cost effective and most sturdy way to stack these cakes. The bottom layers will need to hold an incredible weight. I may need to ask my buddies at Home Depot to build something.

Thesesa, I thought of the copper topper pieces, too, like waves. The people that had a slice of it are so in love. Lets keep thinking where to incorporate these.

Freezer/Refrigerator is regular size. Not a side by side door model, just a plain freezer on the top and refrigerator on the bottom. Whirlpool. Unless you have a HUGE side by side door model, I find these too narrow for my use. The one I have gives me full width. It is new though and I never keep anything very tasty or full of odors. I will be posting signs on the refrigerator doors saying "cake in progress" do not open/close doors unless you are starving! I check the freezer and refrigerator temperatures with thermometers, daily.

I will get started soon!

Rose
06/08/2007 12:52 PM

thanks zach--really appreciate this. i have to tell you all that i'm soon to begin the massive project of copy editing and photography for the upcoming book so unless it's a question no one else feels prepared or able to answer or it's a real emergency, the chances are i will not get to answer many questions.

Zach Townsend
06/08/2007 10:13 AM

Hector,

That will be quite impressive. I've often taken on more than I should, too, and some how pull it off with sheer determination, so good luck.

By the way, I think in the Cake Bible Rose talks about how to calculate number of slices for tiered cakes. There is an illustration if I remember correctly plus discussion (I don't have the book in front of me at the moment). You should be able to calculate the number of slices from that, based on each tier.

Zach

Theresa
06/08/2007 07:20 AM

Wow! That's quite a cake you have planned! It sounds delicious. I was trying to think if there was a way for you to place the copper topper pieces so that they resemble waves around your canoes. Am also wondering - how big is your freezer???!

Hector
06/07/2007 11:24 PM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/YatchClub.html

Today I feel this way for the Yatch Club cake to feed 1000 rowdy boat/paddling people.

I put ALL my round cake pans together and came up with this. Basically, it is a 3 tier cake, each tier 4" high with a 2" base. Then on the top, there are 2 little more cakes. The math in inches is like this, each 2" high, starting from the bottom: 14-12-12, 10-9-9, 7-6-6, 5 and 3.

I think the "proportion" is a little non defined, there isn't much separation between tiers. But I will make it more defined with color borders. I plan to frost the cake light cream color with Kahlua Mouseline Buttercream. Then place a string of coffee beans (Illy of course) at each size change. Close your eyes and picture it for a minute.

Cake will be Biscuit de Savoie. I don't have a 20 qt Hobart, but I think I can make each tier each week and freeze! The cake syrup will be espresso.

On the 4" high cakes, I think I will decorate with some Yatch Club or Paddling motives. I was asked to make a cake the shape of a paddle or canoe, but that is TOO BORING for me (I've seen it done already). Hmm, maybe I can shape some little paddles and canoes out of chocolate, or maybe I can pipe the club's logo or flag.

Gamed?

Rose, can you tell me how many people this cake will feed?

Hector
06/07/2007 07:37 PM

I have 3 copies of Cake Bible. One is the 1st print and soon will be leather bound in Italy. The other two are the latest edition, one which will be signed and donated to this event.

I don't know how am I going to make cake for 1000 people yet! Cake Bible has a chart for a cake up to 450 people, so I just need to double that! It isn't for sure yet, so far the catering company may not like the idea of bringing our own cake.

Ideas please........ what would you do for this scale? A genoise or a butter cake? If it is a butter cake, I am in love with the Buttermilk Country Cake. What about frosting? I would prefer something light like the Silk Meringue Buttercream, but perhaps the Mouseline is more practical and holds better. And.... I have been asked to do something similar to the Copper Topper caramel almond broken glass effect, too. I also like the light whipped chocolate ganache, but that will be costly!

Instead of the surfboard, I can do traditional stacked layers, stick the Copper Topper on the top surfaces of each layer, then on the sides pipe some nautical motives.

Rolled Fondant is not in the picture, I very much so dislike the taste.

Patrincia
06/07/2007 05:42 PM

Hector - You might be doing WHAT????? Oh my - you are amazing for even considering such a thing! Wish I had a front row seat to see this baking event. I love the surf board idea, but how could you part with your signed copy of The Cake Bible? :(

Hector
06/07/2007 03:12 PM

I am envisioning borrowing a clean surf board, and cover it with cake and frosting!

Theresa
06/07/2007 02:05 PM

I wish I could!!! That sounds great!!! You have so much energy, Hector - THEY are crazy if they doubt you could make cake for 1000 people!

Hector
06/07/2007 01:34 PM

800 to 1000 people, July 28th.

Hi Theresa, it is a luau of some sort for the Waikiki Yatch Club annual fundraising dinner party. I've been asked to donate a cake or my time for their silent auction. I think all they need is a gift certificate of some sort for a custom cake that I can prepare for the auction winner. But...... I have offered also to make cake for the dinner party, but they think I am crazy.

So far, for the silent auction, I am donating a signed copy of Cake Bible, and perhaps instead of a custom cake I am thinking on donating a 3 hour baking class with any cake from the book for about 2 to 6 people. That would be fun for me!

Do you want to come to Hawaii and help? I think Rose is coming if I can package her on a private jet!

Theresa
06/07/2007 08:17 AM

Hector, 1000 people??!!! What's the event? This isn't the luau, is it?

Rose
06/06/2007 04:55 PM

you'll have to tell me when you try it because i only ever used the 1.5" pans. i suspect it does bc the syrup should penetrate all the way through. and i do think it will work fine on the jelly roll pan or as they are called in that size half sheet pans.

Hector
06/06/2007 04:31 PM

Rose, regarding pan heights, do you think a 1.5" pan is better than a 2" pan for making layers of Biscuit de Savoie? I find the syrup not penetrating all the way on the 2" layers in spite of days of refrigeration!

Also, do you think a Biscuit de Savoie will bake well on a jelly roll pan? (11x17 about 1" high). I may need to bake for a crowd of 1000 people and have 6 of these sheet pans.

Rose
06/06/2007 04:09 PM

p.s. if using a pan with a dark coating, be sure to use a lower the temperature 325F. or the crust will become too brown with the long cooking time and dark color.

Yasmin
06/06/2007 08:32 AM

Thank you, Rose....now I can go ahead and make the cake with full confidence!!And may I add that I tried the Golden Grand Marnier and it was divine..the hit of the party!!

Rose
06/06/2007 08:28 AM

it will work perfectly in the 10 cup tube pan--takes 50 to 65 minutes to bake.

Patrincia
06/05/2007 10:01 PM

Yasmin - I posted a response to this question this afternoon under the subject "message from Rose". Here's my suggestion:

The only way to know for sure is to give it a try. It sounds like it should be okay as long as you don't over fill the bundt pan. I'd try to not fill it more than 2/3 or so, and maybe even place it on a sheet pan before you put it in the oven. I don't know how long it will take to bake, but start checking it early.

Yasmin
06/05/2007 08:29 PM

Hi
Could someone help me please? I want to make the Perfect All American Chocolate Butter cake in a 9" Bundt pan....will I need to alter any measurements? I can't seem to find anything regarding this.

Zach Townsend
06/03/2007 09:29 PM

p.s....this is still on my mind. When you say your daughter bakes and this happens, is she using the same oven? the same batch of ingredients (such as the baking powder)? I'm assuming you're using baking powder, but if these are egg foam cakes, it must be uneven temperature in the oven. Are you getting the correct total height for the egg foam (such as a genoise) and then it sinks in the middle or is it flat? The reason I ask this is could be you're not beating the egg foam long enough to create the air you need to keep the cake aerated so that it bakes well. Given that you're an experienced baker, you've probably got the methods down; that's why I'm questioning something going wrong with the oven.

Zach

Zach Townsend
06/03/2007 09:03 PM

Elizabeth,

Are you using the same recipes and this is happening when it hasn't before or are these new recipes?

You need to examine these things: is you baking powder old? Test it. Is the flour old, are you not letting the ingredients, such as butter and eggs, coming to room temperature before using them? What about your oven? Is it calibrated correctly? Could be something has gone wrong with your oven and it's not heating properly to bake the cake at the correct temperature. You should test its temperature.

If you're using recipes not used before, perhaps it's too much leavening, but you said "everything you do." If it's everything and you're baking recipes you're familiar with, I bet it has to do with your oven temperature. Check there, then the other things I mentioned. Just one small thing changing that you're not noticing could be causing this.

Zach

Elizabeth
06/03/2007 08:06 PM

Rose, I have been baking since I was about seven years old. I am now forty-two and for some reason I don't understand, almost everything I bake now tends to sink in the middle. My daughter bakes and the same thing happens. Can you please tell me what causes this to happen, and what I can do to stop it?

Patrincia
06/03/2007 01:09 PM

Rose posted an answer to this very question on May 7th, 2007.

"you don't need to add any liquid--you can just add some extra vanilla if you want, or do lemon juice to taste..."

Anonymous
06/03/2007 11:45 AM

Hi Rose,
I like the idea of making the mousseline buttercream but don't want to use alcohol... what can I use instead. The warm temps have been killing the neoclassic buttercream.
Thanks, Aviva

Patrincia
06/02/2007 12:52 PM

rosanne - you might have more success stirring your icing sugar into your finished buttercream, rather than try to add it during the preparation. (that's probably what you had in mind all along)

Patrincia
06/02/2007 12:48 PM

Hi rosanne - When I first started decorating cakes I used Rose's Neoclassic Buttercream (which uses egg yolks instead of whites) because it was so easy to make. It's color is more buttery, and the flavor is actually quite buttery too (sometimes too much so if used to frost and fill a cake). However, once I tried using Rose's Mousseline Buttercream I was hooked; it's only slightly more complicated to make, but I love the flavor and color the eggs whites provide in the recipe. It also holds up better in warm temperatures. Famous NY cake designer Sylvia Weinstock suggests using an egg white buttercream to frost the outside of a cake, and an egg yolk buttercream to fill the layers. (I usually reserve my yolks for lemon curd)

In the US we call Icing Sugar confectioner's sugar, or powdered sugar, or 10x sugar; it contains sugar and cornstarch, so I don't know how that would effect a cooked buttercream. Most people in the US don't like anything "gritty" in their frosting. It's been my experience that people who are only familiar with the gritty non-cooked frostings usually LOVE how wonderfully smooth and creamy the cooked variety is; they just go on and on about it.

rosanne
06/02/2007 11:41 AM

A few quetions about buttercream and icing...
I've been using the swiss meringue recipe on a regular basis and find it's very versatile.
I've noticed a buttercream recipe that calls for egg yolks as apposed to egg whites. When would I use this?

Also, I know a lot of people like the "slightly gritty" nature of the icing sugar/butter icings. Could I add a little bit icing sugar to my swiss meringue to add a little more body and "grit" to it for lets say a chocolate cake or cupcakes?

Thank you so much
rosanne

Patrincia
05/31/2007 07:46 PM

Hi Di - you can use either the 3.5 or the 4. I would do 4 for easier math calculations. You should probably try a test cake first and see how it works out for you. Also, I noticed that you mentioned a 9x13 pan.... it you're planning on baking in a glass pan, be sure to lower your oven temp by 25F.

I personally do not like to bake with convection, but I know Rose talks about using it at least some of the time. If you do use convection, the baking time will be shorter. (when roasting with convection, it's suggested that you reduce not only the time, but the temp too)

The cookie sheet can serve several purposes: it can catch drips/overflows, make transporting to and from the oven easier, and it can act as insulation; preventing the bottom of your baked goods from over baking.

Di
05/31/2007 12:34 PM

Hi,

I am in the process of making a bridal shower cake for a friend who insists it be rectangular. I was reading in the Cake Bible how to convert the base recipe. My question is for the 9x13 pan, the rose factor is 3.5 - 4. Which do I use? 3.5 OR 4?

Second question, I have been taking the Bakery Arts Program at George Brown College in Toronto and one of our instructors told us to always put a cookie sheet under our cakes and never use a convection oven for cakes. What is your opinion on those two recommendations from my instructor?

Thanks,
Diane

Zach Townsend
05/22/2007 11:20 AM

If you're trying to save the yolks, you can also freeze them with a little bit of sugar. Rose talks about this.....

I would go ahead and freeze the curd. The best lessons come from experience.

Zach

Zach Townsend
05/22/2007 11:17 AM

Yes, that should work well. It should freeze just fine.

Zach

Wanda LaLoggia
05/22/2007 10:29 AM

I have a great little foodsaver that will get all the air out. I'm going to try it. I'll let you know how it turns out when i use it. Thanks. Wanda

Patrincia
05/22/2007 10:16 AM

Wanda - were you asking about freezing lemon curd? The cake bible states that it can be refrigerated up to 3 weeks (longer than that, flavor is effected). There is no mention of freezing wich means Rose doesn't suggest it.

I believe Rose recently posted a response to a question about lemon curd storage - I think she mentioned the recipe was developed long ago, before refrigeration, and kept well in a cool spot in the kitchen for en extended period of time (someone correct me if I'm wrong about that).

Zach Townsend
05/22/2007 10:02 AM

Yes, I believe you can. You can successfully freeze vanilla sauce (creme anglaise), so I see no reason why curd wouldn't freeze well. I'm trying to think if I've ever frozen it since I've made it so much myself. I don't think I have but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't freeze well. Try to vacuum pack and freeze it if you can. If you can't, then place it in a freezer bag and squeeze as much air out as possible. I would also tuck a piece of plastic wrap on top of it in the bag on the surface, to better keep out frost.

Zach

Wanda LaLoggia
05/22/2007 09:35 AM

Zach, Since you're out there, can I ask one more question? I'm planning on making lemon curd with all the leftover egg yolks. Do you know if I can freeze it? Thanks again. Wanda

Zach Townsend
05/22/2007 09:14 AM

Wanda,

You're welcome. I'm not familiar with Magic Line pans specifically, but a 4 minute baking difference is nothing - if the cakes baked well, then it's a success, right? I always set my oven timer to the minimum time suggested in the time range, then start checking them frequently for doneness at that point. usually every 1-2 minutes if I feel they are approaching doneness.

In metal pans, you'll have much better results when using the cake strips.

Zach

Wanda LaLoggia
05/22/2007 09:01 AM

Zach, Thanks for your suggestion about the Magic Cake strips. I made some homemade ones and tried it on the 8" cakes and they came out nice and level. It still took about 4 minutes longer to cook in the Magic Line, but I can live with that. I am an excellent cook, but baking in new to me. (There's an interesting story about how I got started in baking if you're interested.) Thanks for your help. Wanda

Zach Townsend
05/21/2007 08:07 PM

Wanda,

About the magic line pan that sank slightly in the middle, did you use cake strips around the pan? Try using those, which will help the cake bake more evenly. Different pans will bake differently, by how they allow heat to be conducted into the batter. Again, since you're changing the recipe, I would test different baking times plus cake strips. Also, try changing the position of the oven rack (lower third vs. center of oven) in one pan vs. the other.

I wouldn't go to the expense of buying new pans unless you get consistently bad results after trying several tests.

Zach

Zach Townsend
05/21/2007 07:47 PM

Wanda,

All ovens are different, even if they're the same model. Temperature of batter caused by temperature of ingredients can also impact baking time. You mentioned that you adjusted the baking powder, so you've changed the recipe which automatically changes how it will react in the oven. Though Rose's recipes are tested multiple times at an accurate oven temperature, one cannot expect that the baking time will always be the same, especially when the recipe has been changed.

If your cakes are not over done or underdone, then I wouldn't worry about the slight time difference. The best thing to do is just to watch for signs of doneness around the estimated baking time. My oven takes longer on some recipes and shorter on others, too. It's a matter of understanding what a completed cake looks and feels like so you can judge to make up for all the possible variables. This is what will make you a good baker.

Zach

Wanda LaLoggia
05/21/2007 07:27 PM

Rose, I have one more question please? I made two 8" white velvet cakes this afternoon and reduced the baking powder to 2 3/4 tsp. So far so good. However; they took almost 45 minutes to cook? Your bible says it should take 25-35 mins. My oven thermomitor showed the oven temp was right around 150, so I'm not sure why it took so long? I live in Phoenix, so high altitude shouldn't be a factor. Do you have any ideas?

Wanda LaLoggia
05/21/2007 01:12 PM

Rose.. AHA! I finally had success (almost) with the smaller 6" White Velvet cake. I decreased the baking powder to 2 3/4 tsp for two 6" layers, and one layer came out just slightly rounded (in a wilton pan) and the other just ever so slightly sank in the middle, (magic line pan). Also, it took about 3 more minutes for the cake in the magic line to finish. I baked them in the same oven, at 350d. Unfortunately, most of my pans are magic line, so I'm wondering if I need to go to the expense (arghh) of changing them out, or if there is some adjustment I can make so I can use the pans I already have? Thanks for your opinion.. Wanda

Patrincia
05/16/2007 04:33 PM

Jo-Ann - oops, I just looked up the crystal splendor cake stands you mentioned. I didn't realize it is made of individual stands (obviously I thought you were stacking the tiers). Well, you'll find photos of those kinds of cakes too - have fun waiting for them all to upload :)

Patrincia
05/16/2007 04:03 PM

Jo-Ann - may I offer some advice? If you do a google search for "wedding cake photos" or "wedding cake gallery", you'll get all kinds of ideas for various sizes and designs - seems like anything goes these days.

Since the tier sizes you want to use will only allow for a 1" border around each tier when place on top of the next size tier (hard to explain in words), the designer in me would suggest you keep the flowers very simple - maybe just a nice floral arrangement on the top tier, with greenery and/or more flowers on the cake base or table. Or a very simple "spiral" arrangement starting at the top and gently draping down one side to the bottom. Or even something like one big fabulous bloom on top with maybe some petals sprinkled everywhere else.

You'll get lots of ideas from similar sized cakes when you search for those photos.

Rose
05/16/2007 03:48 PM

i personally prefer a 3 inch difference in tiers. so what you should do is stack the pans one on top of another to get an idea of the effect. obviously you will have a 1 inch border all around instead of a 1 1/2 inch. it can work it's purely a matter of personal preference.

Jo-Ann
05/16/2007 03:37 PM

Thanks Rosie...I found the Parrish pans online...I also will order a heating core as they suggest for cakes over 11" (though I have never used one)...we have revised the sizes of the cakes to 6", 8", 10", and 12" in order to fit the crystal splendor acrylic cake stands also found online...do you think there is enough of a difference in cake sizes to look attractive when decorated with fresh flowers and placed on the stands?...I am a bit nervous since this is my first wedding cake endeavor and don't want to disappoint my friends...I completely trust your opinions on all or any part of this endeavor...thank you so much for the help...Jo-Ann

Rozanne
05/16/2007 01:56 PM

Laureen,
How about a carrot cake? They are usually made with oil instead of butter.
Rozanne

Juliana
05/16/2007 12:11 PM

Laureen,

I have a few other suggestions.

Regarding cakes that have been made with butter or cream or milk, and then baked for about 30 to 45 mins, can you take these? Would the baked butter or cream or milk still affect you?

If you have no problem with that, then just change the frosting or buttercream that covers the cake to marzipan (almond paste) or sugarpaste or use margarine in the buttercream.

Also, instead of using butter in making the cakes, use margarine. But you might want to check with Rose regarding how much to use to replace butter, and whether other ingredients like eggs and baking powder have to be increased or reduced.

However, cakes made with margarine are not as fragrant as those made with butter, but not everyone can tell the difference.

There are also a lot of cakes in The Cake Bible that use little or no butter or cream at all. You might want to try those too.

Patrincia
05/15/2007 01:25 PM

Laureen - did you check allrecipes.com for dairy-free, soy, or vegan recipes?

Can you tolerate butter? If so, a flourless chocolate cake might work out for you.

Juliana
05/15/2007 12:14 PM

Laureen,

Can you buy a bottle of lactase enzyme at a pharmacy near you? I am also lactose intolerant so I take lactase capsules half an hour before eating any milk products.

If you can get lactase, then at least you will be able to have your cake and eat it too.

The problem with replacing milk with other products is that sometimes it changes the taste of the cake too much. In the end, you might enjoy the substituted product but your wedding guests may not.

Rose
05/15/2007 10:49 AM

good plan. check out parrish--they have all these sizes in a nice heavy-weight material. so does sweet celebrations.

Jo-Ann
05/15/2007 10:46 AM

Hi Rose,

I am going to bake a wedding cake in four different size pans; 6", 9", 12" and 15". I was wondering what pans you would suggest since I do not have quality pans and will have to invest in some. Also, it will not be a tiered cake; they will set on individual cake stands from the highest holding the smallest cake to the lowest holding the largest cake. Would any of this make a difference in which kind of pans should be chosen? Do you think the 6", 9", 12" and 15" would look good?

Thanks for you help...Jo-Ann

Rose
05/15/2007 10:46 AM

i'm sorry i can't help laureen--this is not my area of expertise. there are people who devote themselves full-time to special diets and substitutions and it does require a full focus as it's never the same and needs many tests and experimentation.

Jo-Ann
05/15/2007 10:43 AM

Hi Rose,

I am going to bake a wedding cake in four different size pans; 6", 9", 12" and 15". I was wondering what pans you would suggest since I do not have quality pans and will have to invest in some. Also, it will not be a tiered cake; they will set on individual cake stands from the highest being the smallest cake to the lowest being the largest cake. Would any of this make a difference in what kinds of pans should be chosen?

Thanks for you help...Jo-Ann

Laureen Fanone
05/15/2007 10:31 AM

Hello Rose,
Do you discuss non-dairy and soy substitutions in your cookbook?
I will be getting married at a small resort in Playa del Carmen, Mexico and the problem is that I am severely lactose intolerant. The Mexican pastry chef has asked me to provide a wedding cake recipe. I randomly emailed a few bakeries I found on-line and your book was highly recommended. I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed that your book may be the solution for me. It would be wonderful if I was able to eat my own weding cake!
Btw: eggs do not seem to bother me.
Thank you in advance for your time!

Sofia
05/15/2007 08:41 AM

I haven´t even thought of that, but it sounds yummy! I guess I have to adjust the recipe and multiply by 1.5 to get the 6 cups, is that correct, Rose? And thank you ever so much for your quick reply!

Rose
05/15/2007 08:34 AM

why don't you just make the light whipped chocolate ganache?

Sofia
05/15/2007 08:31 AM

Rose, I´m about to make the Chocolate Chip Charlotte, and I´ve been wanting to do it for quite some time and I was just invited to dinner this weekend at my boyfriends mom´s house, and I think this would be perfect to bring! I just wonder if there is a way to make it less "chippy" and more like chocolate mousse? Do you think it would be possible to melt almost all of the chocolate and incorporate that to the whipped cream?

Rose
05/14/2007 05:27 AM

it's true of all convection ovens except the counter top ones such as the convection/microwave ovens. unless a recipe states convection you should assume it's for a conventional oven. lower the temp only when using your convection oven. you just found the solution to the over done problem!

Ruth Bloch
05/14/2007 04:10 AM

Rose:

Does lowering the temperature by 25 degrees apply to any fan oven?! Are all of the temps in your books for electric ovens with elements top and bottom? I'm sorry if its a silly question, but I have been using a fan(convection) oven for the last 3 years, but have never lowered the temp! Maybe that's why some of the cakes come out just a tad over done!

Rose
05/13/2007 06:06 PM

virginia, send them to my gmail address. there is no way to attach them otherwise.

maggie, are you lowering the temperature by 25 degrees and still getting browning? if so, you may want to cover them loosely with foil--punch a few holes in the foil if you do this.

Maggie Flowers
05/13/2007 05:52 PM

Hi, Rose
Trust all is well with you.
I want to bake your Cheesecake from The Cake Bible and I don't want a brown top but I have to use a big Professional convection oven.
I made some key lime cheesecakes this past week in the same oven, (not your recipe)in a water bath at 325F. They came out looking like souffles (hahaha) but they deflated beautifully with no sinking and one little crack that pretty much disappeared. They were light in texture but full flavored..quite nice, but brown on top.
That was not a problem with these particular cakes because they were topped with whipped cream. I do see it becoming a problem in the future though, so I'm wondering if you know a way to NOT get brown tops on your cheesecakes in a convection oven.
thank you
Maggie

Hector
05/13/2007 01:25 PM

Virginia, if I may, for "rolled" ice cream cake use "roulade."

virginia sybert
05/13/2007 01:23 PM

Dear Rose and Woody:
A belated follow-up on your help with the giant chocolate oblivion tortes. they came out great and I'd be happy to send photos but can't figure out how to attach them to this post.

virginia sybert
05/13/2007 01:17 PM

Dear Rose:

I have read your descriptions of various sponge cakes (sponge, genoise, roulade) and think I get it, but still am unsure as to the 'best' one to use for a rolled ice cream cake. My daughter is a vanilla fan (must have been traded for my real choclate lovign child by the fairies) and I am looking for the cake likely to give the best subtle flavors when rolled around vanilla icecream and frosted with whipped cream. Thank you for your time.

Hector
05/10/2007 02:33 PM

Try using a cast iron pan or a non stick saute pan or an omelette pan, instead of a griddle. You can turn it around and form the sides.

Rose
05/10/2007 02:30 PM

pour it into a cake pan and try baking it as a cake instead of frying it. it might work. otherwise, use a flan ring set on a griddle to contain the batter and form "sides." that would be my preference.

Ruth
05/10/2007 02:24 PM

Thanks for the quick response! In that case (the pancake from cake bible) my question could be how would i make it go up on the sides? almost like a pie shell...usually pancake batter pours????Any suggestions?

Rose
05/10/2007 02:14 PM

i've actually suggested making the pancakes from the cake bible as a cake for people who can't eat sugar as they are wonderfully tender and delicious without any sugar. i think this would probably be just what you have in mind.

Ruth
05/10/2007 02:09 PM

Hi Rose!

I had a divine cake the other day - and I was wondering if you had any ideas on the base - it tasted like a pancake and was only about 1/4 - 1/2 inch thick and did go up the sides of the pan. The filling was a white chocolate mousse - but what made the cake great was the base! Any ideas on how to make this "pancake" base?

Rose
05/08/2007 08:42 PM

christine, i can't see why you couldn't just add peanut butter to taste to any of the buttercreams in my book. In the pastry bible i add 1/2 cup plus 1 tablespoon to 2 1/2 cups of pastry cream so you could use that as a guide.

Rose
05/08/2007 08:38 PM

i think marvin meant that he scoops out a specific measure of batter and then weighs it to see how much it has expanded compared to the last time. if it's lighter it means the same volume has more air and that he has beaten it longer.

Christine
05/08/2007 01:57 PM

Hi Rose,

Love your book, The Cake Bible! I'm doing a groomscake for a rehearsal dinner on Thursday night and the groom likes peanut butter so I'm thinking of doing a chocolate cake with peanut butter filling. Can your neoclassic buttercream be modified to be a peanut butter buttercream? I have a recipe I found online, but I already know that your buttercream is fantastic and I'd rather not try a new recipe at this point.
Thanks! Christine

Maggie Flowers
05/08/2007 06:30 AM

Hi Rose,
Martin mentioned a gravity test...what is this?
welcome back btw
maggie

Hector
05/07/2007 03:24 PM

Thank your Rose & Zach re: jelly roll pans. I am beginning to understand that the depth of your pan is very important. The width and length (or diameter) of the pan is also important, but this can be tweaked with math on the recipe amount. I just happen to love so much my 20 year old Magic Line 8x12 sheet cake pan.

Zach Townsend
05/07/2007 02:50 PM

Thanks, Martin

When you wrote this message, my initial thought was "mixing" as the issue only because I've noticed it takes longer, as one would expect, to blend larger batches.

Good luck and can't wait to hear when you figure it out!

Zach

MARTIN GIVENS
05/07/2007 02:12 PM

Zach,Rose
thanks for your response. the bigger the mixer the bigger the batch. my mixers are 80qt and 120qt I also have one that's 320qt. but I would never try to make this recipe in the 320qt. all of my pans are the same size so I don't think that is a problem. my ovens are all calibrated and checked every 3months so its not an inaccurate temp. when I do scale up the book formula and make it in my 80qt bowl the mix looks exactly the same as a small single batch. it only takes me about 10 minutes to get all the cakes into the oven, I've made other cakes that sit out longer and I haven't had this issue. the only thing I can think of is I may not be mixing long enough. I'm going to make a small batch again and take a gravity check and then try doing a larger batch and do a gravity check on that one. if there both the same I should get the same results out of the oven,hmmm??? we'll see. I hope!! anyways back to the big experiment.I'll let you know what happens.
THANKS, MARTY

Zach Townsend
05/07/2007 01:37 PM

Martin,

I'm fascinated by the fact that you can make up to 60 cakes at once! Are you sure your pans are all the same size? How do you bake up to this many at once? Are you crowding the pans in the oven? Also, I would think that the time it takes to emulsify such a large batter properly has something to do with it, and maybe the leavning is impacted during the mixing before it even hits the pan if it takes an especially long time to mix.

I've been told by chefs that significantly enlarging some baked goods will never yield good results. I think you are better off, as Rose suggests, baking in smaller batches if the batch goes beyond the tested wedding cake-size.

I'd be interested in hearing more about how you are managing this.

Thanks, Zach

Rose
05/07/2007 10:26 AM

it's not a "huge" problem it's a large scale problem! since the cake will work as a wedding cake in a large mixer it probably isn't the mixing though that can be a factor. you could try increasing the mixing time. but i think what is more the problem is the time it takes to dispense the batter into all those pans.
baking in large scale is different from small batches and not something i ever do so i can only hypothesize.
the thing to do is see at what point it levels off, i.e. you say 20 or more. what about 15? then you have to stick to the size that works, or mix longer, or get more people to help dispense the batter so it doesn't sit as long in the mixing bowl.
batter needs to be transferred to the cake pan as soon as possible after mixing at which point it can be refrigerated for a while but the critical thing is getting it into the pan as it loses leavening during both sitting but especially during the transfer. the gas expands the air bubbles and breaks through the structure causing a coarse grain.
do report back the results.

martin givens
05/07/2007 10:11 AM

Good morning rose. I have a huge problem. I've made the recipe in the cake bible, (all occasion downy yellow cake a few times and as you stated in your book it really is a winner, but every time I try to increase the size of the batch to more than 20 or 30 or 60 cakes at a time the cakes come out with a very coarse open grain. all of my ingredients are the same the baking time is the same everything seems the same. I cant for the life of me figure it out. please help me. I think I'm going nuts.

Zach Townsend
05/07/2007 09:46 AM

p.s....I made one of Rose's rolled cakes while in Dillon Colorado at 9,135 feet in the mountains. I only had access to an old jelly roll pan that was slightly warped, a 30-year-old oven that ran too hot and an old hand mixer with only one beater. Though not perfect in the end, the final product turned out pretty good and everyone enjoyed it. I learned that lots of toasted almonds, powdered sugar and berries are great for coverning imperfections when you have to bake in unknown conditions, so I suspected you'll be just fine in this case.

Zach Townsend
05/07/2007 09:42 AM

Hector,

My two cents as I bake often in sheet pans. Of course the larger the pan the thinner the batter and the faster it will bake. An additional inch in height may cause the top to brown a little faster too as the heat comes off the sides and reflects down on the top. If I were you, I would use your 17x11, 1-inch deep as it's closer to the suggested size and then just watch it as it bakes. As Rose says, you can then use scraps to fill gaps if you run short. This is one of the fun parts of baking - improvising and learning when conditions aren't ideal!

Zach

Rose
05/07/2007 09:09 AM

i don't think it will bake correctly in too deep a pan. if you use a different size you may have to make two as you may run short of cake though you can save your scraps and patch. it will probably be fine though.

Hector
05/07/2007 04:18 AM

Dear Rose. I am getting ready to make the Ethereal Pearl Charlotte. Can I make the Biscuit Roulade on a Magic Line 18x12 inch Sheet Cake Pan? I think it is 2 inches deep. Your recipe calls for a 17x12 jelly roll pan which I think it is 1 inch deep. I also have a 17x11 jelly roll, 1 inch deep, non-stick pan but it is a little oblong (the long sides are surved).

Rose
05/05/2007 12:47 PM

why don't you ask the bride to be what her favorite flavors are and those of the groom. i adore the pistachio marzipan version i did for the pistachio rose cake. lemon curd mousseline would be lovely. you can use it for the crumb coating as well.

Wanda LaLoggia
05/04/2007 10:42 PM

Rose, I hope this is the right place to post this question. I'm making your white velvet cake for a wedding later this month. The Bride wants fondant and I'm making white and periwinkle roses and fondent pearls to decorate it. My question is, what would you recommend for the frosting between the layers and what would you recommend to use as a crumb coat for the cake? Thanks so much. Wanda

Rose
05/04/2007 06:06 PM

hector, addressing your convection oven question: the whole point of convection is even air flow. some ovens are better than others but you should still be able to bake several layers. of course be sure there is at least an inch of space between all the pans and also the pans and the sides of the oven so the air can flow.

Rose
05/04/2007 05:46 PM

i'm working backwards from postings trying to catch up and i think i should go on more vacations and you all have done such a great job answering in my behalf. thank you hector and rozanne and everyone who responded to the food show recipe question of what cakes are used. you are an author's dream come true to have such educated and erudite reviewers. is there anything more delicious than being so understood?!

Zach Townsend
05/04/2007 04:14 PM

There is an option in the email that you get to unsubsribe by clicking a link.

Rose
05/04/2007 04:04 PM

that's an excellent suggestion zach. as the blog host i never access it that way so didn't think of it. i get EVERYTHING in duplicate in fact! but i do know that to unsubscribe you go back to the thread to the post a comment and simply uncheck the let me know if someone adds a comment box just above the comments where you post.

Hector
05/04/2007 02:35 PM

point well taken.

Zachary, how do you unsubscribe from a topic? I know that to subscribe, I just post a comment and leave the default check "Let me know if someone adds a comment"

Zachary Townsend
05/04/2007 02:17 PM

Virgina,

One of the best ways to get the discussion back on track to a topic that you think interests everyone is to introduce one, but as long as the topics center around baking, I think in the end everyone can benefit because it this blog has also grown to serve as a place to research topics, not just participate in discussions. One day someone may be researching information on mixers and find the information useful.

If you find you're getting notifications on certain topics that don't interest you, it might be best to unsubscribe to that topic then join in on those that interest you.

Rose
05/04/2007 01:57 PM

actually this blog was conceived originall y to be a baking journal of my experiences with about 1 hour once a week of my time. it has turned into a minimum of 2 hours a day and often longer. this is my fault bc i can't resist answering people's questions. most are relevant to all bakers and if not they can be ignored. but your point is well-taken. if it gets to be a personal issue between two bloggers best to take if off the blog and into personal e-maildom.

Virginia Sybert
05/04/2007 10:22 AM

Maybe it is just me, but can we not turn this website into a chat rooms for all kinds of discussions (e.g. what mixer to buy)and leave it primarily for a forum for back and forth with Rose about baking/cooking issues with us chiming in from time to time if we have comments or expertise? Or at least take the discussion off to a separate electronic venue when it is clearly a dialogue between two interested parties? I find its utility rapidly decreasing as the number of postings of non-general interest have increased exponentially.

Veronica
05/03/2007 10:14 PM

thanks for the great suggestions hector, i could certainly use an extra mixer... i will be looking into it. :)

Hector
05/03/2007 08:32 PM

$159, Amazon, every other day or so, it drops below $199!!!

Hector
05/03/2007 08:30 PM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Biscuit%20de%20Savoie%20PICT0002.JPG

Patrincia
05/03/2007 08:29 PM

Hector - where do you find a refurbished one?

Hector
05/03/2007 08:27 PM

Veronica, have you considered getting a second mixer to whip Biscuit de Savoie? You can pick up an inexpensive refurbished model for just about the same price of buying a second set of bowls and beaters!!!

Rose
05/03/2007 08:15 PM

certainly! great idea.

aviva
05/03/2007 08:11 PM

Hi Rose,
I've been making your raspberry and strawberry (and lemon!) buttercreams with great success. I thought it might be fun to try a blackberry version. Can I just follow the exact technique as the lightly sweetened raspberry puree?
Thanks,
Aviva

Hector
05/03/2007 07:14 PM

ok, this is my last email for today:

Yes, the Swiss (Nespresso) make it right, what the Italians (high pressure coffee extraction) invented, what the South Americans -and Indo Africa- (coffee beans) grow!!!

Rose
05/03/2007 07:03 PM

i also love nespresso restretto or something like that.

Hector
05/03/2007 07:00 PM

And it is better for your health, too!!!Real espresso has less caffeine per cup than an American brew coffe!!! Real espresso is also NOT BITTER (the extraction is fast, the alcaloid bitters don't form). I am sure you are using the Illy brand, or other Italian roast and grind specific for espresso (fine grind, medium roast).

I don't know of any Kona coffee growers with Italian roast, so I guess I better start roasting my own!!!

Rose
05/03/2007 06:45 PM

hector, i'm also now a convert of real espresso--now that one can make such great quality at home. in the new book tira misu is making a reappearance with espresso!

very exciting possibilities about hawaii!

Hector
05/03/2007 06:39 PM

You can try slicing your layer, too. But, personally, I would butcher the cake layer into lady finger size pieces, dip each piece on espresso, then assembled it back together.

My friend Luca (from Italy) says that the beauty of Tiramisu is that each lady finger is soaked brown on the ouside, but when you bite, it is still cake color inside!!! So, who said Tiramisu needs to be drowned in coffee?

And, you must make true espresso ok? That is the time consuming part, to get so many shots enough for your tiramisu.

Luca just made tiramusu this Sunday.

Rose
05/03/2007 06:23 PM

i think you can but not having done it i'm not sure. i'm also not sure if the syrup will penetrate evenly in a thicker layer. you'll need to do a test run!

Veronica
05/03/2007 06:05 PM

hi rose!
quick question: can i bake biscuit de Savoie in a 3inch deep pan? fill it half way through? (still working on that tiramisu wedding cake!!!)
a million thanks!
Veronica

Maggie Flowers
04/29/2007 06:52 PM

Roseann..I have to agree with Hector and Rozanne. The Cake Bible is very trust worthy. The problem I used to run into quite often with recipes from tv shows or magazines etc. is that you don't know how stable the recipe is. So many times I would follow the recipes to the letter and it wasn't very flavorful, or the structure wasn't right...something was/ie often off with "found" recipes. The Cake Bible recipes are very well tested and true. You can depend on them time after time.
Also, Rose teaches you the differences in cakes and why they are different, and that all cakes come from a certain type of basic or "mother" recipe. recipe. As you learn you can watch these foodTV shows or whatever and realise, that the cake they're showing you is actually a Butter cake or a genoise...and you have the absolute best mother recipes in The Cake Bible..so why look further.
You can also go online at Border's and look for a used copy if you want to save a few bucks.

Hector
04/29/2007 04:41 PM

As a matter of fact, everytime I watch FoodTV, I never write down the ingredients list or cooking instructions. In my opinion, Cake Bible has the inredients list and cooking insructions for all types of cakes, frostings, and fillings, so I use these to make whatever is assembled at FoodTV. When I go to a baking class, I do the same!!! I warn you that Cake Bible will appear difficult and intimidating at the beginning, but after a "few years" you will consider it part of your family!!! The recipes and instructions are written with ALL details, if you follow everything exactly you get the exact results. I have so many books, but Cake Bible is the one I always open each time!!!

Rozanne
04/29/2007 02:31 PM

Hi Roseann,
If you are looking for a book with good cake recipes, buy the Cake Bible. It is an absolutely fabulous book. The recipes are out of this world. The best part is how Rose compares one cake to another and explains in detail the difference between the cakes. Also it has a VERY useful chart at the back of the book explaining how to make butter cakes or genoise in any size (from 6" to 18" and sheet cakes). It takes all the guest work out of making cakes in different sizes. If nothing else the book is worth buying just for the chart alone. It is priceless!!!!!!! There is also in depth explanations of various ingredients and a very insightful section on the science of baking. I'm sure you will love it.
Thanks,
Rozanne

Roseann
04/28/2007 01:10 PM

On FoodTV and various shows I see all these cakes being made, the hype is on the decorating, nothing is ever mentioned about the cake they use. What I need to know is what is the actual cake and recipe they use for these structures. I want something that will hold up. Do they use a good sponge cake or do they use a Genoise, or what is used for a good wedding cake? HELP I want to make some cakes for my family...I'm really intrested, I would appreciate your help.
Thank you! Roseann

Maggie Flowers
04/27/2007 09:53 PM

Hey, Smecka.....I don't know whose cabinet doors you're talking about but unless this person is a personal friend of yours and you were teasing him/her..what a rude thing to say.

Patrincia
04/27/2007 09:45 PM

Steven - maybe they have "distressed" finish.

Steven Smecka
04/27/2007 08:10 PM

I recently saw your high resolution photos of 3 cupcakes. I just love your granite counter tops. The underside of your cabinet doors is quite dusty though.

Hector
04/27/2007 08:02 PM

I wonder if any of you have a Broilking's Cadco convection ovens. Can I bake three 9" round layers, one on each rack? I believe the fan can't be turned off.

Lori Vreeke
04/24/2007 10:40 PM

When I opened my cake bakery, I did a lot of research on ovens. I only make 2-3 large cakes a week but my new oven can handle much more use. I ended up purchasing a DeLuxe oven and it is the best investment I could have made. It is not a convection oven, which is not recommended for cakes. It has elements below and above each rack and mine has four racks which can easily accommodate 8 cake pans at the same time. One of the great advantages of this oven is it does not require a hood so I saved in not having to install one. Their web site is: www.deluxeovens.com.
Happy Baking,
Lori V.
Pastries By Vreeke

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 07:58 PM

HEY Check it out.
I found this site while researching comercial convection ovens...since some of us have been having a discussion on the whole convection conversions and such, I thought you might want to visit this site as well. It's very informative.
maggie

http://www.broilking.com/convection_cooking.html

Patrincia
04/24/2007 05:56 PM

Hector - I'd love a Viking (ouch $$$). I'm content with my KA pro dual fuel - it looks great and works very well - it was my "I feel bad for making you move" gift from my husband :)

My only complaint is the heavy cast iron burner grates are not sealed, making them extremely hard to keep clean, so I've kind of given up trying. Other than that, it great!

Hector
04/24/2007 05:25 PM

Hi Patrincia, OMG, that is the stove I wanted, the KA Dual Fuel, do you have it with steam assist? Saving some money to get a Viking one day, too, or a KA Dual Fuel dual oven!!!

I suppose my cakes are coming even because I follow Cake Bible recipes very closelly!!! I measure by weight including the amount of freshly opened Rumford baking powder. Perhaps, my cakes are even, because I have been baking mostly non-baking powder cakes (genoise and biscuit de savoy).

Hmm, if you can't turn off convection, and you need to bake bread, I would suggest to get big cast iron Dutch ovens, and bake with the lid on for the first 20 minutes. The crust will be nice!!! Sure thing, it won't be practicall to bake 100 dinner rolls this way. Maggie, does your work place Viking convection oven has steam injection?

Patrincia
04/24/2007 05:06 PM

Would you consider cheesecakes to be a form of flourless cakes? Nick Malgieri, author of How To Bake, says you should never use convection for baking a cheeesecake because they will overbrown and rise too much, which will result in a fallen center. I imagine any flourless cake might behave the same way.

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 04:35 PM

Hector..The oven I use is a commercial one..A Viking I think. I do the baking at a restaurant here. I wish we could turn off the fans but the heating elements will burn up so we don't have that option. It's a big mama and I'm a bit intimidated by it...Baking is very precise..more a science really and recipes are more like formulas. That's how I see it anyway. The fans of the convection oven will take some getting used to but so far, I really like the results. I haven't done a flourless cake yet. I wonder how a flourless recipe would hold up..have you (or anyone else out there) ever baked a flourless cake in a convection oven?
maggie

AND PATRINCIA...Thanks for sharing your cake moving successes with me. If I feel the need to turn them at some point, I will do so with more confidence.
maggie

Patrincia
04/24/2007 03:34 PM

Hi Hector - who was your question directed to? My oven is a KitchenAid Professional Duel Fuel (and I love it!). I don't use the convection feature for all my baked goods, as a matter of fact, I use it more for roasting than anything else. And I like to avoid turning items I'm baking at all costs, but on the rare occasion that I do turn a cake, I've been able to avoid making it fall by being careful.

I love the insulated cake strips - I've used them for cakes that range in size from 6-14 inches, and my cakes always come out perfectly level with absolutely no need to trim them after they've cooled completely on a cooling rack... you should really give them a try. (and I love when people say, "how do you always get your cakes to be so level?")

Hector
04/24/2007 03:18 PM

And I am just about to get a convection oven!!!!!! Cake Bible says that you "can" open your door oven for some cakes, and not for others, depends on the type of cake (butter based or not, with or without leavening, etc). In any case, a good convection oven should distribute the heat evenly, so it won't be necessary to turn your cake!!! Which make and model is your convection oven? I have a gas Kitchen Aid Architect Series "I" self standing 30 inch range, and the convection oven is acceptable; I specially like the feature where you can turn the convection -fan- on/off because really you don't want convection for everything. Everyone says that an electric oven provides more even heat, but I prefer to use gas specially for bread baking because it uses such long preheating and baking times, it would hike up my electric bill. In my oven, I don't use magic cake strips, my cakes do come a little puffed in the center, but I have learned to live with it (office mates love to eat the crumbs I cut off). On the 30 inch rack I can bake two 9 inch round cake pans, side by side. If I use 2 racks instead, placing one cake pan above another, the pan on the lower rack underbakes. If I need to bake 4 layers, I do place 2 on the top rack and 2 on the lower rack; the top ones bake about 10 minutes faster, so I just take them out first. I place baking stones and/or cast iron grill pans on the very bottom of the oven and on the very top rack, which helps a lot to bring the oven temperature back up after opening/closing. I have a Panasonic microwave/convection oven with turn table, it bakes one layer at a time with perfect even results, this type of countertop home ovens is the one Rose recommends because the convection fan isn't that strong and because the turn table is great to have. Also the distance between the oven roof and floor is short. Good luck. /h

Patrincia
04/24/2007 03:01 PM

Maggie - I did have a cake fall the first time, but since then I've learned to open the oven door carefully, reach in and gently rotate the cakes (without moving the oven racks in or out), and then again, close the door ever so carefully. It works out pretty well. I don't think it's movement that makes cakes fall, as much as it is the sudden jarring motion that's made when the door slams, or the bumpy motion the racks make if they don't slide in and out smoothly.

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 01:52 PM

Yes I put all my cakes on sheet pans while baking them. It makes them easier to handle and in a convection oven I think it helps protect them a bit from the airflow.
:)
maggie

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 01:42 PM

Patrincia...you don't have a problem with cakes falling when you move them?
I've always been told to not disturb cakes while they're baking....remember the old thing about slamming a door when a cake is in the oven? I remember my mother saying that.
maggie

babs
04/24/2007 01:18 PM

Thanks, Maggie and Patrincia. Maggie, do you put the cake pans on baking sheets for all kinds of cakes, or just some in particular? And I think I know now why people wrap the wet towels in foil. A couple of years ago I just wrapped some large cake pans in wet towels, and the towels burned in the oven. Not a good thing.

Patrincia
04/24/2007 12:24 PM

In a pinch, I've successfully used the homemade foil/paper towel strips too. They do seem to work very well. I've also read that before cake strips were available, people would wet old towels and wrap them around the cake pans.

To add the convection discussion, I also lower my temp by 25 degrees and the cakes are done about 10 minutes faster too. I find the tops of some very lightly colored cakes can brown a bit unevenly if I don't give them a turn half way through.

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 09:44 AM

Babs...I wouldn't turn the cakes half way through baking...or at any time for that matter as they might fall.
Rose told me that adjusting the temperature by reducing it 25 degrees and doing a test cake to determine the amount of time needed for it to bake, should do the trick. If the oven you're using has a high and low fan setting, use the low setting.
Magi-strips (or pan wraps)are great no matter what kind of oven you're using. The make the cake rise evenly...no dome tops. I always use them. I just make my own to save money.
My cakes cooked a little bit faster in the convection oven. I checked them about 10 minutes before the recipe's bake time, and they were done. However, that may vary from recipe to recipe and according to the weather and the mood of the kitchen on that particular day. hahaha.
And yes I did four layers at a time on two racks. I also put my cake pans on a baking sheet before putting them into the oven. Good luck, and I hope this is helpful.
maggie

babs
04/24/2007 08:48 AM

thanks, Maggie. I also am going to try start baking cakes in a commercial convection oven, and appreciate your advice. Have you baked multiple cake layers at the same time? If so, how did that turn out? Do you need to turn cake pans around half-way through? I am really totally ignorant about convection ovens - all that noise and hot air drives me crazy!

Maggie Flowers
04/24/2007 07:50 AM

Babs,
Yes. They're home made magi-strips. You take paper towels and wet them and wrap them in foil and wrap that around your cake pan.

babs
04/24/2007 05:25 AM

Maggie, can you please discuss your statement: "Is it helpful to use the wet towels in foil pan wraps?" Is this similar to the Magi-Strips? I'd be very grateful if you explain this in further detail. Thanks very much.

Hector
04/23/2007 09:42 PM

Hi Maggie, I've just revamped my baked meringue skills with Cake Bible's Baked Hawaii!!!!! Was a lot of fun. www.hectorwong.com

Maggie Flowers
04/23/2007 09:12 PM

Thanks Hector...I completely forgot about the meringue!! I think I will make the custard and the shells and build the pies as needed. I really want to use meringue (and yes it is baked) the combination of meringue and the banana custard is so much of what makes this recipe special.

Maggie Flowers
04/23/2007 08:40 PM

Rose...I want to thank you for answering my question about professional convection ovens so quickly(The same day I posted it even!!!)when you are so busy. I baked my cakes and they were great. White velvet with raspberry filling and lemon buttercream. Very rich and all from the cake bible. One lady had a piece for her dessert at the restaurant and bought a whole cake to take home to her family. Thank you again for making my job easier.
your fan
maggie

Hector
04/23/2007 08:29 PM

Is your meringue topping baked? Check with the Cake Bible what is the shelf life of baked meringue topping, I believe it isn't that long (the soft inside turns into liquid within hours). I have better luck with whipped cream topping (super stabilized or just stabilized, I've never tried Corbasan though).

Besides that, my curstard banana fillings last 2 weeks in the refrigerator, if that answers your question.

There should be other issues you may know from your other pies already about the pie crust, eventually the crust softens from the moisture of the custard filling.

Maggie Flowers
04/23/2007 08:13 PM

I have a pie question...I am making banana pudding pies for the restaurant where I work. I am unsure of the shelf life of banana pudding(the custard is made from scratch), and therefore not sure how many pies I should make at a time. The pies have a meringue topping, if that makes a difference. ANy one who can shed some light on this subject is welcome to do so.
Thank you
maggie

Rose
04/13/2007 08:19 AM

i address this in detail in the cake bible. if you don't have it, go to any bookstore or library and take a quick glance at pages 482 and 483.
if you're doing this on a regular basis you will probably want to own the book!

liz
04/13/2007 08:14 AM

i have taken on the job of making carrot cake for 150 guests at the wedding dance and i need to know what a normal serving size for a slice would be. i am baking them in a spring form pan about 10in round .any information you can give me would be great.i need to know app how many cakes i will need to bake to complete this project.thank you in advance for anything you can tell me .liz

Rose
04/12/2007 08:28 PM

add about 1 tablespoon/6 grams loosely packed lemon zest per 1 cup/100 grams of flour.

aviva
04/12/2007 07:21 PM

Hi once again!
I am working on a making a cupcake w/your lemon buttercream. I am debating on which white cake of yours goes best with lemon buttercream (i know there are several to choose from) but my question is, can I add
lemon zest to the batter to make is lemony and how much would I add?
Thanks in advance, I know you are a busy lady!
Aviva

Rose
04/12/2007 07:27 AM

the oven most likely. make at a lower temperature for a longer time so it will be more evenly baked through and through.

Lida Reeves
04/11/2007 11:31 PM

I made my hazlenut biscotti today, and they did not bake in the middle (the first bake, before they're sliced). They were nicely browned on the outside, but when I went to slice them for the second baking, they were raw through the center. Is this the oven, or me?

Rose
04/10/2007 11:21 PM

by filling i assume you mean cutting the cake into two layers and adding a layer of filling between the two. i can't see why this wouldn't work. since you say you are new at doing this i would strongly recommend using a recipe!

Connie Blevins
04/10/2007 10:16 PM

I just found this web site and I have a question for you about strawberry filling in a 12x18" cake. Everyone I have talked with about this said not to do it. Please tell me if it is possible to do and should I use a filling with some creamcheese in with the strawberries. I am pretty new at decorating cakes and using fillings.
Thanks for you help.
Connie

Rose
04/09/2007 10:14 PM

mila, european style butter is great for clariying (not for american style layer cakes).
i've listed all the cakes using egg whites in the book and don't have any that work as a roll.

Rose
04/09/2007 10:09 PM

maggie, i'm about 75 postings behind now as i'm trying to meet my book deadline so i'll answer your emergency question briefly. a commercial convection oven can be quite powerful so i'd start with lowering 25 degrees., wet towels in foil is good for all types of ovens. be sure to do a test cake to assure that the racks are level and to see how long it takes to bake so you can adjuste accordingly.

Mila
04/09/2007 09:04 PM

Hi Rose!
After i did some Easter bread baking last Thursday and Saturday i had about 700gr of eggwhites so i've decided to try the white genoise. Ok, i didn't follow the ingredients list strictly and it resulted in a pretty dense cake, it did rise but still, it's not a delicate layer, tastes more like a sour cream pound cake. What could have affected it this way? Using unbleached all-purpose flour or adding some cornstarch to it to substitute a cake flour? And re. butter - i'm using the european-style one, which has more fat, is this butter ok for baking or i should better use regular?
Is there any eggwhite-only recipe i can use to make the base for the roulade or it is too gentle to roll?
Thank you.

Maggie Flowers
04/09/2007 05:47 PM

Hi, Rose. I've been using your Cake Bible for years and like all the other people who post, I send my gratitude for all that I have learned from your labor of love.
My question(s) is this: I've just started doing the baking at a local restaurant and they have a convection oven. I've read that I need to reduce the temp on the oven by 25 or maybe even 50 degrees f. Is this correct? Are there other adjustments that need to be made? Is it helpful to use the wet towels in foil pan wraps?
I love those btw.
Please advise as I will be baking cakes in that oven this week end.
Thank you
maggie

Patrincia
04/01/2007 01:00 PM

Penzey's is another brand company that offers wonderful cocoa (natural and Dutch-processed). If you are lucky enough to have one in you area great, otherwise you can order online.

Rose
04/01/2007 10:04 AM

re the new blend of cocoa,i haven't tried it but some people prefer the less mellow taste of non-alkalized cocoa and say it'has more of the true chocolate flavor. i personally prefer alkalized. my two favorite brands currently available in this country are the green & black's (whole foods carries it) and droste.

Rose
03/31/2007 04:28 PM

i love that--scientific baking! sounds like you salvaged the situation perfectly but here's my suggestion for next time--those little silicups. and be sure not to overbeat as that causes the cheesecake batter to rise. you could even make it in a food processor!

Gwyneth
03/31/2007 01:16 AM

Rose I am a big fan! I used to bake your cakes with the kids I babysat. They are at college now. After a long hiatus of no baking I've baked the cheese cake with the lemon curd. Wow it was a great success. Emboldened by this rave review I tried to do mini cheese cakes in small glass yogurt containers instead of mini springforms. I baked them in a water bath but the batter behaved like a souffle and pouffed out of the containers. Would greasing the container prevent that? I stuffed the cheesecake caps back into the bottles and hid the disaster with a mixed berry compote. It tasted good but not so pretty to look at. I think I will stick to the larger springform pan in the water bath. I'm so happy to have found your blog. Your book was my first introduction to scientific baking.

Patrincia
03/31/2007 01:06 AM

Hi Lori - Yes, I've liked the Special Dark cocoa for cakes too, but I do think the company changed more than just the name on the can - the color of the cocoa is completely different, and the SD can says it's a 'blend' of natural and Dutch-processed. BTW, I love the cakes on you website.

Lori Vreeke
03/30/2007 09:02 PM

Virginia & Patrincia,
I have been using the new "Special Dark" since they changed the name last year. I always have used it to make The Cake Bibles Chocolate Cake and have only gotten rave reviews. I called Hershey's and was told they just renamed it. I purchase it by the case directly from the Hershey's Visitors Center in California.
Lori V.
Pastries By Vreeke

Patrincia
03/30/2007 04:59 PM

Virginia - I read that Hershey's discontinued their Dutch-processed cocoa powder and replaced it with Hershey's "Special Dark" (also Dutch-processed) cocoa. I've tried the new SD variety - it has an extremely weird color, kind of a dark "ashy" charcoal brown instead of a rich lovely chocolately brown. I used it in a cake recipe and the flavor was acceptable, but I read negative reviews from people who didn't like it used for making hot cocoa (don't know if they disliked it for the color alone, or for the color and flavor together)

virginia sybert
03/30/2007 04:44 PM

I have been seeing a new cocoa product in the stores that is a blend of dutch process and non-alkalinized cocoa and have been unable to find hershey's Dutch process (so much cheaper than droste I can't bear to pass up)- can't tell if Hershey's isn't making it or if all groceries have decided not to stock. But, can the blended mixtures be substituted for either type?
No rush on answer. thanks.

Rose
03/30/2007 09:03 AM

oh! this means you never saw my posting--put in a search for "crossing the atlantic by cookbook" you'll enjoy it!

Adrian
03/30/2007 08:29 AM

I have made cakes with at least three types of flour. Rarely I have used bleached cake flour. For a while I habitually used an unbleached pastry flour for some cakes, but I moved and can't get that flour any more. I now usually use a bleached all-purpose flour.

But I specifically did a test of bleached cake flour vs. unbleached pastry flour. That's what I reported above. Both flours are low protein so this test is not confused by the second variable of flour protein content. My result leads me to expect that someone with only unbleached flour should be able to get good results, but might perhaps have to add starch to their flour if it is high in protein. (I never tried to make cakes with unbleached bread flour to see what happens with a high protein flour so I don't have any personal evidence of the significance of the protein content.)

What was the solution to the problem with the UK flour?

Rose
03/30/2007 08:20 AM

when we translated the cake bible into UK english, they had major problems when testing the butter cakes with "plain" unbleached flour. there was a pasty layer at the bottom and the center fell, causing an unpleasant taste.
since your experience has been different--i believe you said in your first posting that you didn't have any problems though in this one you say you use cake flour so i'm not sure i got this right--the flour may have changed over the years. i can't swear to this--i can only address my personal experience and understanding.
you are right about the different bleaching process for all purpose--chlorine bleach used for cake flour is the ideal. but i do find that bleached all-purpose still is acceptable.

Adrian
03/30/2007 07:42 AM

I actually usually use bleached all-purpose flour for making cakes (though as I understand this is bleached with a different agent than cake flour). I just wanted to encourage the people who only have access to unbleached flour that they should still be able to get a reasonably good cake. In other words, if their cakes are failing catastrophically, the blame should not be placed on the use of unbleached rather than bleached flour.

Rose
03/30/2007 01:37 AM

randy--i must have dreamed i answered your fondant ? bc i can't find an answer on this thread. yes--fondant won't roll well if too cold. iwould say 75 to 80 degrees is probably ideal.

Rose
03/29/2007 11:01 PM

aviva, the salt is not a problem and your math is correct but keep in mind that smaller size cake pans need a little more leavening in proportion to the flour and larger ones a little less. if the cake dips in the center you know it needs less baking powder. if it domes, then next time increase it slightly.

Rose
03/29/2007 10:53 PM

adrian, if you're having success with unbleached flour then of course it's fine to use it. ppl more often complain of having the cake sink in the middle after cooliong which has been my experience as well when using it for cakes made with softened butter as opposed to oil or génoise.

Rose
03/29/2007 10:43 PM

judy, i let cakes frosted with buttercream sit overnight but in a cool room no higher than 70 degrees. you could refrigerate it and bring it to room temp before serving.

Rose
03/29/2007 09:51 PM

jacqui, the raspberry conserve does indeed get thick. i'm sure you'll love it!

Rose
03/29/2007 09:41 PM

emily, i thin the oils you suggested would be excellent in the choc. chiffon cake.

Rose
03/29/2007 09:32 PM

judy, re the banana loaf, doubling it in two pans or changing the flour or sugar would not change the flavor the way you described. something else changed significantly. salt doesn't come out of thin air!!! think carefully what you may have done. or simply make the single loaf again just to build confidence.

Rose
03/29/2007 09:27 PM

mac chen, in ans to your question, you can replace the whole wheat flour with equal weight cake flour.
i can't tell you about butter substitutes bc i only use real butter.

Patrincia
03/25/2007 06:14 PM

Judy,

The crumb coat will be extremely thin, so you shouldn't need extra buttercream. When I freeze leftover buttercream, I thaw it in the refrigerator overnight. You'll need to rebeat the buttercream to restore it's consistency.

Patrincia

Judy
03/25/2007 05:39 PM

I made your Checkerboard cake. I need to put a crumb coat on it. I plan on making the Neoclassic Chocolate Frosting - will I have to make more frosting if I put a crumb coat on it? I froze the cake. I plan on freezing the frosting - should I thaw the frosting at room temperature? Thank you.

Babs
03/24/2007 11:54 AM

Someone - I believe it was Vreeve - was asking about square cupcake pans. The Baker's Catalogue at King Arthur Flour carries them. I believe they have two kinds - one is called a pop-up pan. I bought one of the "square" cupcake pans about four years ago from them. I believe they're made by Chicago Metallic. King Arthur Flour's website is www.kingarthurflour.com

aviva
03/24/2007 02:26 AM

Hi Rose,
I wanted to ask you about halving a recipe....what to do about salt and baking powder? And can I make the 1/2 batch along with a full batch. Does it come out the same?
The recipe I'm trying to do by 1 1/2 is your Yellow butter cake.

The baking powder calls for 1T plus 1t. Do I just add to that 1/2T and 1/2t.?
Salt is 3/4t., do I add that plus 1/2 of that(whatever half of 3/4 is???) that amount?
Thanks in advance....
It's so lucky to be able to go straight to the source for info. Thanks again,
Aviva

Adrian
03/23/2007 11:21 AM

Is it really so important to have bleached flour? I've made cakes with unbleached flour and gotten results that seemed perfectly fine. Certainly the substitution has not lead to disaster. In fact, I once did a comparison of bleached cake flour and unbleached pastry flour (both low protein) in the same cake recipe (Grand Marnier Cake from the Cake Bible) and the cakes were similar but the pastry flour cake had a slightly coarser texture. Only a cake connoisseur would have noticed the difference (and I actually preferred the cake with the coarser texture that was made with the unbleached pastry flour). This suggests to me that somebody using an unbleached high protein flour should be able to get reasonably good results, albeit not the very finest crumb, by mixing some type of starch in with the flour.

Judy
03/23/2007 09:32 AM

I plan on making the checkerboard cake from your Cake Bible for my dad's 90th birthday. I am going to use your chocolate buttercream frosting. Can I frost the cake the day before and leave it out on the counter overnight or must I refrigerate the cake because of the buttercream frosting?

Jacqui
03/20/2007 08:53 PM

Me again, would the raspberry conserve be a better choice for a fruit filling? Does it get thick?

Jacqui
03/20/2007 06:55 PM

Hi Rose,
I love your book "The Cake Bible". I'm making a wedding cake this weekend and I would like to use your raspberry puree for the fruit filling. Should I add cornstarch to it to thicken it or do you have another suggesion? By the way I love your puree's in buttercream especially the strawberry!

Emily Phillips
03/20/2007 06:29 PM

I would like to try your recipe for guiltless chocolate chiffon cake and I would like to subsitute hazelnut oil for the walnut oil and grapeseed oil for the safflower oil. Would this work? I have recently bought these oils for a particular recipe and would like to use them before they go rancid. By the way I made the Swiss Black Forest cake for Christmas and I had some pretty impressed guests! Thanks for all your hard work.

Judy
03/20/2007 09:44 AM

Rose, I doubled the banana loaf recipe but used bleached flour and granulated sugar in place of cake flour and turbinado. The pan size was perfect but the loaf raised nice in the oven and then fell as it cooled. It tasted salty and I could hardly detect any banana taste at all. I'm really puzzled as to what happened. The first loaf I made without doubling the recipe was to die for.

mac chan
03/20/2007 01:12 AM

what exactly is a butter substitute? does it work exactly like butter?

mac chan
03/20/2007 01:11 AM

the carrot cake in the cake bible uses wheat flour. if i want to use cake flour, will it be the same measurement?

Rose
03/16/2007 05:02 PM

all this information is listed in great detail in the cake bible in the wedding cake section.

Shirley
03/16/2007 07:57 AM

How do you figure what size round pans to use for a wedding cake to serve 200 people? The bride wants a three tier cake.

Rose
03/14/2007 05:11 PM

replacing part of the cornstarch will not help if the flour is not bleached and it sounds like from the results you are getting it is not. you might want to speak to a local baker because they are usually very knowledgeable about the flour they use. they might even sell you some of the flour. your only other option is to make all the many cakes that don't use butter in an unmelted form for ex: genoise, chiffon, angel, biscuit.

Rosemary
03/14/2007 02:47 PM

About my terrible white cake...:)...I live in Sweden, so the brand name (Kungsörnen) might not mean anything to you. Although lovely and white, I don't know if it is "bleached" using the same process as for American flour. The only processing ingredient is ascorbic acid and the protein content is 10%. Some B vitamins and niacin are also added. Grateful for any tips on how/if I should replace part of the flour with cornstarch (preferably in grams). Thanks from Sweden!

Rose
03/12/2007 07:20 PM

definitely the butter. it MUST be betweeen 65 and 75 degrees F.

Sarah
03/12/2007 12:05 PM

Hi Rose! Help! I've made your fabulous Banana Cake once to perfection. And the following 5 times the cake has turned out flat, dense and miserable-looking. I can't really think of anything I'm doing differently, except for two things:
1) I'm using extremely ripe bananas (totally brown skins), whereas in the first cake, I used golden yellow-skin bananas
and 2) I read somewhere on here about softened butter being cool to the touch, but squishable. I used warm, almost to the point of melted, butter in the bedraggled cakes... I tried to rush the butter-softening process by putting the sticks on the oven while it preheated.

Could either of these two things affect the density and height of the cake? Or am I pulverizing the liquid stuff in the food processor for too long? I weigh all my ingredients.

ERICA
03/12/2007 10:07 AM

Chère Rose!
Thank you for your generosity and sharing!
I live in France and do cakes for family and friends covered with rolled fondant or royal icing. People here don't appreciate buttercream (not even french butercream) but I find it so efficient to hide cake imperfections before decorating! What alternative can I use? They hate the butter feeling on the tongue. MERCI in advance!

Rose
03/09/2007 12:23 AM

heavy cream nad heavy whiping cream are the same but whipped cream is lighter in butterfat.
dairy cream has an infinitely better flavor.

mac chan
03/09/2007 12:11 AM

thanks for the reply.
1. what is the difference between heavy cream and whipping cream?
2. which is better dairy or non dairy cream?

thanks again and again...

Rose
03/07/2007 08:26 AM

my chiffon recipe in the cake bible has baking powder.
with margarine you'll get less height.

mac chan
03/07/2007 04:58 AM

Dear ms Rose,

what will happen if i add baking powder to a chiffon cake?
Can i use melted margarine instead of oil?

thanks a bunch!!

Rose
03/06/2007 10:05 PM

there's no getting around that problem. you have to make cakes where the butter is not in solid form such as génoise or chiffon with oil.
i use whole milk in my cakes so i don't see a problem there.

isabel
03/06/2007 09:52 PM

Thank you for your reply! I read the post and found it very interesting. However, we don't have bleached flour in Venezuela :-( how can i work around this problem? And finally, what about the milk? (sorry i keep bothering!)
thanks!
isabel

Rose
03/06/2007 08:39 PM

please put in a search for flour on this blog as i've addressed this question in major detail! also, i do tell how to replace cake flour with allpurpose and cornstarch in the cake bible. but the flour must be bleached. be sure to see the posting i wrote "crossing the atlantic by cookbook."

isabel
03/06/2007 08:15 PM

Hi Rose! I'm a big fan from Venezuela. The Cake Bible has been a huge help in my work (cake decorating). I would be happy if you can answer the following questions:
1. In my country i only find all-purpose flour or self rising flour.Is there a way i can prepare my own version of cake flour?
2. I always use dry powder milk (mixed with water) but it's a little time consuming, specially when i have to bake a lot of cakes. Can i switch to whole liquid milk? would i get the same result?
thank you very much!

Rose
03/05/2007 09:18 PM

actually i do--it's a marvelous chocolate glaze that will be in my upcoming book. meantime try adding little dabs of lemon curd to your buttercream.

Lori Vreeke
03/05/2007 09:13 PM

Actually I have a pretty good recipe for frosting that uses white margerine which isn't so bad and not too sweet.
I was just hoping you had some other magic recipe :-)
Thanks again,
Lori V.
Pastries By Vreeke

Rose
03/05/2007 08:57 PM

probably the only buttercream suitable for these conditions is the dreaded vegetable shortening buttercream. you could use lemon curd instead or maybe add so to the buttercream to give it a good flavor.
i looked for square cupcake liners at the restaurant show today and it seems they don't exist.
if your cupcakes separate from the liners they are overbaked.

Vreeke
03/05/2007 08:47 PM

For my third question about cupcakes....
Sometimes the cupcake liners separate from my cupcakes. Why does this happen and how can I prevent it?
Thanks so much!
Lori V.

Vreeke
03/05/2007 08:45 PM

My second order for wedding cupcakes is for square cupcakes with fondant on top.
Has anyone ever seen square cupcake liners? and Square Cupcake pans?

Vreeke
03/05/2007 08:07 PM

One of my wedding cake orders this summer is for overly frosted cupcakes with a fondant flower on top. This wedding will be outside in July in the California heat. What type of frosting would you recommend?

Rose
03/05/2007 04:42 PM

before i address you other questions please tell me where you live. exactly what brand all purpose flour did you use? was it bleached?

Rosemary
03/05/2007 08:40 AM

Hello Rose,

My white cake was a disaster and I need to ask a few questions to find out what I did wrong. First, cake flour is not available here. I tried to make my own with an 85/15 mix of regular flour and cornstarch, by weight (85 gr flour to 15 gr cornstarch). Was that the problem? That is the only departure I took from the recipe. Second, the buttercream, flavored with strawberry puree made to your recipe, was too soft and thin in consistency, and too sweet - again, I followed the recipe exactly. Finally, do I have to add gelatin to 40% fat cream to make cream fillings? Thank you!

Rosemary

Randy
03/02/2007 09:11 PM

Rose, I've been having a little trouble with your rolled fondant recipe from The Cake Bible. I do as you recommend and allow the fondant to "rest" for a few hours before rolling it out and covering a cake. My last three attempts have been miserable as the fondant cracks VERY easily and it seems almost impossible to apply the fondant with out a number of large cracks. After my last attempt, I started to wonder if the temperature of the fondant had an impact. I had been keeping the fondant on my cold kitchen counter and was probably about 64 (or less) degrees F when I started working with it. Do you have a recommendation for the best temperature to work fondant? Thanks!

talia
03/02/2007 08:17 PM

when baking a carriot cake can you just use baking power and not use baking soda, and will the cake turn out good or bad???

Rose
02/26/2007 09:50 AM

don't worry--dr. ruth made it kosher (the word!) thanks for the great feedback.

Veronica
02/26/2007 01:35 AM

I have a copy of the cake bible and these days I look for any and I mean any excuse to try a cake from the book. Today was the Golden luxury butter cake on pg 48. In one word ORGASMIC. Not sure if I can say that but that's the only way I know how to put it. I served it up fresh out of the oven not cream or anything and as everybody tucked in, there were moans and groans left, right and centre. Can't wait for the new book.

Rose
02/26/2007 01:08 AM

mousseline and silk meringue hold up really well unless it's 90 degrees so it certainly has to be the whipped cream that does not hold up unless stabilized with cobasan and that works only when the cream isn't ultrapasteurized. if you make the whipped cream with jam that also holds for hours.

mac chan
02/26/2007 12:20 AM

hey rose!!!

i can't believe you are answering all of these questions!
i hope you answer mine though..
i made silk meringue buttercream. however i ran out of buttercream to frost the cake. having no time, i frosted the remaining area whipping cream. in the end, the guest said the icing melted.. i'm wondering which icing melted? ( i was not there personally. the cake was in room temperature for 6-7 hours. do you have a very very stable recipe for whipping cream that will withstand room temperature and does not involve chocolate? also in my case, is it possible that the buttercram melted togeher with the whipping cream? what is your brand of choice for creams?

Rose
02/25/2007 04:56 PM

always play with what you have--that's the way to learn.

Rose
02/25/2007 03:13 PM

regarding the chocolate roses, it could be the chocolate you are using--maybe some humidity got into it. i'm assuming you're using the powdered color. it's happened to me on occasion and usually what works is kneading it in plastic wrap. maybe a little more cornsyrup. but when it comes together it is breathtakingly beautiful. i have the original ones i made for the cover on the cake bible--they've been subjected to direct sunlight every morning for close to 20 years as amazingly have kept their virbrancy of color.
best of luck.

Wanda LaLoggia
02/25/2007 11:07 AM

Chocolate Rose Modeling Paste
Rose, I made the recipe for White Chocolate Modeling paste, followed the directions in the Cake Bible, but when I tried to use it, I ran into a problem. I had to knead it quite a bit and it was pretty oily, so I used plastic gloves to help with that. When it was soft, and I tried to roll it into a ball, it just crumbled away. Can you please tell me what I did wrong? Did I knead it too long? or were the gloves the problem. I'd really like to try making these. I love the look. Thanks very much. Wanda

Rose
02/19/2007 08:32 PM

i'm glad you found a way to make the most of it. and yes your projected heights are correct.

chrissy
02/19/2007 08:25 PM

I used the "cookie" cake anyway... i cut it into quarters and used a chocolate buttercream filling and frosting. it didn't turn out too bad! it was pretty and tasted good (but was rich...)
also, can i assume that the 1" high pan will approx yield a 3/4" high cake and
the 2" high pan will yield a 1 1/2" high cake?
thanks again for being so helpful!

Rose
02/19/2007 07:28 PM

i'm so sorry. i know it's a little confusing bc all the round ones are for 2 pans. that's why i put batter weight per pan in the column to the right.

yes--you're right about 4 being fine for a 1 inch high pan but you may find it domes a bit because a lower pan needs less support. try it as it is but if it domes you know you'll need a little more leavening.

chrissy
02/19/2007 07:21 PM

well that is good to hear! i was starting to wonder what i did wrong. my 12x18x1 cake came out very thin and that explains why... (i was very upset... it looked like a cookie!)
one more question... the rose factor of 7-8 is for a 2" high pan (12x18), right? so using a rose factor of 4, should be good for a 1" high (12x18)pan, right? thanks so much for your help!

Rose
02/19/2007 06:14 PM

yes--just one layer for the rectangular cakes

chrissy
02/19/2007 05:36 PM

in the cake bible, you gave a chart for different size cake pans and their rose factors to determine amounts of ingredients. at the top of the column it says "pan size (2 layers 2 inches high)", which I take to mean 2 cake pans of any size. But does that hold for the 13x9x2 pan and the 12x18x2 pan or for those pans, do you mean one layer? Thanks for your help!

Rose
02/18/2007 12:15 PM

the book is out of print so you'll need to search an antique book store or ask for a photo of the cover which is beige and has a square frame as opposed to the white cover with no wuare surrounding the cake. oh yes--here's the ISBN 0-333-51182-4

Helen
02/18/2007 11:04 AM

Hi, I'm planning to buy the cake bible here in Britain, I've heard (from this site?) that you adjusted the recipes to accommodate British ingredients a bit. My question is, if I'm ordering the book off the web, how can I be sure it is the 'british' version? Does it have a separate isbn number?

Many thanks,

Helen

Rose
02/18/2007 09:33 AM

or maybe add it before adding the meringue. probably doesn't make much difference.

Rose
02/18/2007 09:32 AM

la cuisine also has great pistachio paste. i've never tried making my own. should n't be a problem adding it to silm meringue at the end.

Lori Vreeke
02/18/2007 09:26 AM

Rose,
Thank you again. Pistachio buttercream is just what I am looking to make. If I make the Silk Meringue Butterceam what is the best way to add pistachio's? Is there a way to make Pistachio paste (similar to praline paste)? I noticed in The Cake Bible, Albert Uster may sell it?
Lori V.

Rose
02/18/2007 09:00 AM

strawberry and raspberry of any sort turn gray on cooking. in the cake bible i recommend using food color when adding them to a buttercream for this very reason.
when using recipes, it's important to follow them as carefully as possible or the results will not be what was intended! maybe better but maybe not, i.e. it's fine to experiment but don't expect perfection.

Rose
02/18/2007 08:57 AM

Lori, the fondant keeps the pistachio from drying out. if you want to use just pistachio, you should brush it with melted cocoa butter. pistachio buttercream would be lovely too. and if you want to intensify the pistachio flavor get the pistachio essence from la cuisine in alexandria.

Maria
02/18/2007 04:34 AM

Hi, Rose.
I'm a young (19) and enthusiastic rookie to the world of baking so I thought with your expertise I could ask you this question: Why would a day-old cake develop a grayish areas between the cake layers? I made this cake: http://www.thatsmyhome.com/chocolate/rasalmcak.htm but as I said earlier I'm a newbie and messed up along the way. I forgot to add hot water to the batter, couldn't find fresh nor plain frozen raspberries at the grocery store so I ended up using Bird's Eye Frozen Raspberries in heavy syrup, and I didn't add lemon juice to the "Raspberry Crush". I only had 1/2 cup of sour cream and improvised and added 1/2 cup strawberry banana yogurt to make 1 cup. Try not to laugh :) This cake is very delicious btw, and I plan to remake it the properly next time. Why the gray, though?
P.S. I kept it refridgerated too.

Lori Vreeke
02/17/2007 06:19 PM

Rose,
I have two brides who would like a Pistachio Cake. I was looking thru The Cake Bible for a recipe and remembered your brothers wedding cake. All my cakes are covered in Fondant and I was wondering if I should substitute the Fondant for the Pistachio Marzipan? OR just use the Pistachio Marzipan as a thin layer as you describe? That recipe calls for the White Velvet Butter cake, Pistachio Syrup, Creme Ivoire Deluxe and Pistachio Marzipan. Would this be the way to go or is their another way? Possibly a Pistachio Buttercream?
Thank You,
Lori V.

Rose
01/22/2007 01:39 PM

sounds wonderful--let us know if you try it.

chrissy
01/22/2007 01:35 PM

thanks for your advice with the syrup. I have my grandmother's old recipe for a sponge cake and she always used canned peach juice on her cakes. I wonder if that would work for butter-type cakes as well?

Rose
01/22/2007 01:29 PM

the best thing to use is your own good judgement! i think almond is an excellent addition. the problem with sugar and water is that it will make it more sweet though with lemon it counters that. so don't use too much if no lemon.

Chrissy
01/22/2007 01:13 PM

The lemon sounds great, if I can convice the mom-to-be to change the chocolate buttercream filling. If not, can I use any flavor extract (maybe almond) or can I leave out the flavoring and just use the sugar and water?

Rose
01/22/2007 12:54 PM

i would add the syrup after unmolding as it's harder for it to penetrate when refrigerated.

you could use a lemon syrup such as the one for the lemon poppyseed pound cake in the cake bible. what could be better!

Chrissy
01/22/2007 11:34 AM

I plan on making a cake for a baby shower for about 60 people. I need to make the cake more than 24 hours before, obviously, so i would like to use a syrup to keep the cake moist. do i add the syrup before the cake is refigerated or as i am assembling the cake? Also, i don't want to use a liqueur b/c the of the mom-to-be, so is there something else that i can use? thanks for your advice!

sabrina
01/20/2007 11:26 AM

I do have the book, and that was where i got the info about using a thin layer (within the descriptions of how to make the wedding cakes). . . but i'm forgetful. ..I'll go back and take a look at the fondant sections again . . . thanks for your responses, good luck with the editing - I'm excited for your new book to come out!

Rose
01/20/2007 11:16 AM

by the way, the reason i was assuming you have my book is that you sort of quoted from it saying i advised a thin layer of buttercream or did i post that here. hard to keep track of all this stuff. going bck to book editing so won't be able to respond until monday probably.

Rose
01/20/2007 11:15 AM

in answer to your question--NOTHING stands up well under fondant. i was assuming you ahd the cake bible where i explain all of this--sorry.

Rose
01/20/2007 11:14 AM

sabrina i love them--thanks for reminding me--parrish makes them--the loose bottom type and for cheesecakes and to use in place of a springform they are great BUT for layer cakes i prefer non stick.

sabrina
01/20/2007 11:08 AM

sorry, one more thing. . .are you saying I should use shortening instead of butter in the 'buttercream' since it needs to stand up to the heat. . . i understand the advantage, but I thought i read elsewhere on this blog that your mousseline buttercream stands up very well to heat?

yes, the marshmallow fondant was smooth and silky, but i think i'd have to say the scratch was a touch silkier. . .the marshmallow fondant is a bit sticky, although if i'd have added more sugar perhaps they would have achieved identical silkiness.

sabrina
01/20/2007 11:03 AM

thanks Rose, one more question. . .have you ever used magic line pans? I know you recommend the chicago metallic but i'm having better luck finding magic line and wondered how they compared.

Rose
01/20/2007 10:25 AM

thank you sabrina--very interesting. as i now see it, the one advantage of the marshmallow fondant is that you don't have to search out the glycerine. i'm assuming it is as smooth and silky as the scratch fondant?
i don't see any advantage of having more vegetable shortening buttercream and you don't want to use butter because it softens to readily. that's the problem, a thicker layer will start dipping and lumping when the fondant is applied. you could try applying it to cake that has been frosted and frozen at least 8 hours.
i've not found freezing to be an advantage to the crumb but it doesn't hurt as long as the cake is eaten at room temp.
do let us know if you try this!
so glad you have the scale--it will make your life WONDERFUL. and dear shirley corriher--i think her next book which will be focused on baking is due out this year!

sabrina
01/20/2007 09:54 AM

Hi Rose, so I finally got around to trying the marshmallow fondant. . . it was easy to prepare and did roll out well, but I can't say that I found any advantages over the rolled fondant recipe you give in the cake bible. . . I think that perhaps the excitement I've seen online over the taste of the marshmallow fondant is perhaps in comparison to purchased fondants such as Wilton's which definitely does not taste good (no offense to wilton!). . .the taste is slightly different than your rolled fondant (you can detect a marshmallow taste, and i think you taste the powdered sugar more than in the rolled fondant) but I think it would merely be a matter of individual preference, I prefer the regular version although I served a cake last night that was decorated with both types and my guests thought both were delicious. I found the regular version slightly easier to work with. . .

I have some other questions that I'd really appreciate if you had a chance to consider. . .these are all again pertaining to the wedding cake I'm making for my brother.

In all of your fondant covered cakes in the cake bible you make a point to state that the buttercream layer under the fondant should be as thin as possible. . . as the buttercream flavor is generally preferrable to the flavor of fondant, I'd like to do a generous layer of buttercream under the fondant - what are the disadvantages or potential pitfalls that may be associated with this? I imagine it'd be more difficult to smooth the fondant, perhaps - will it also have problems adhering well? (I plan on using the mousseline buttercream and the wedding is outdoors and it will likely be hot and humid).

Also, I read on another site that freezing cakes actually improves the crumb of the cake - do you find this to be accurate?

Also, I want to thank you for the cake bible - I love it! I read about it in Shirley O'Corriher's, Cookwise, and have wanted it since, making this wedding cake was the excuse I needed to finally get it! Your book and blog were also the final encouragement I needed to purchase a scale. . .I ordered the KD7000 and it arrived earlier this week - I absolutely love it!

Thanks again,

Sabrina

Rose
01/17/2007 10:14 PM

david, re your pound cake, it probably has too much sugar. i use equal weight flour and sugar.

Chrissy, i always adjust the leavening when i increase the size of the pan--it's all in the book on the chart!

Nhelly, i give pretty detailed directions about what can be stored at room temp, refrigerator, and freezer so please review. refrigerators differ widely as to humidty levels and my best advice to you is to do a little sample cake or two and try storing it with different methods. never take it from freezer to room temp.--it needs to be gradual.

Nhelly
01/17/2007 02:10 PM

I'm glad I found your site. I'm planning to make a wedding cake, and was wondering how far in advance I can make the cake. I was going to bake and ice the cake, and then freeze it. About two weeks from the wedding, I was going to put the fondant and decorate the cake. Then leave it in the refrigerator until the wedding. Please advice if this would be a good idea. If not, please tell me the best way to freeze the cake, and how early I can take the cake out to decorate.

Chrissy
01/17/2007 11:36 AM

I recently made your all occasion downy yellow cake and used a 13-inch round cake pan, without adjusting the baking powder. (I made 3 separate batches for a 3 layer cake) The cake ended up pretty big and fed 25 people, with some leftover. Next time I would like to bake the cake in a 17x12x1 half sheet pan, but do I have to adjust the baking powder for this size pan?

David Lawson
01/17/2007 10:47 AM

Why do my pound cakes become crusty on top?

Rose
01/16/2007 09:16 PM

i'm sorry jenny--i've never made a cake like this. but bf i even read about covering it with foil i was thinking of suggesting it. maybe even after the first hour as it is surely drying out with such long baking.

Jenny McLachlan
01/16/2007 07:13 PM

Hi Rose, I have just gone on to the internet to see if there was a site that would help me, and came across yours. I am making a dense chocolate mud cake for my daughters wedding and was wondering if you could tell me why the top cracks. It is cooked at 160 for 3 hours although it needed more than the 3 hours, more like 3.5 but was already cracked when I checked earlier. It recommended putting foil over the top which I did at 2.5 hours. As I need to make 3 of these all in 8inch pans I would appreciate any help you can give. Thanks, Jenny

Rose
01/14/2007 03:42 PM

layer cakes don't bake well in 3 inch high pans which is why i don't give instructions.

Wanda LaLoggia
01/14/2007 03:31 PM

Rose. I recently picked up a copy of the Cake Bible and have learned so much. I am currently making lots of 'practice' cakes for a wedding in May. I need some advice on the cake. Your White Velvet Cake has instructions for 2 inch pans. Mine are 3 inch. Do you have the adjustments for baking 3 inch layers? I am planning on making the wedding cake using 6", 10", and 14" tiers and so far, every cake I've made has fallen in the middle. Can you give me some advice?

Rose
01/14/2007 10:06 AM

i'll be really interested to know how it compares. it contains all the ingredients of rolled fondant except i think the glycerin which makes a huge difference in the smoothness so i'm wondering if it will really taste better! thanks a lot for offering this.

sabrina
01/14/2007 10:01 AM

I haven't tried to work with it yet but supposedly you can still roll it out just as you would regular fondant. . .the recipes I've seen are all very similar. . .I found them all on the internet. . .here's the one I was going to try, it was posted on a wilton discussion forum by "bunnywoman"

1- 16 oz bag of mini marshmallows
2 tbsps water
2 lbs powdered sugar (8 cups)

Place marshmallows in a standard 1 cup measuring cup and push down and pack them in. Place in a microwave safe bowl and add the water. Put in the microwave for about 20 seconds. Just long enough for them to soften and puff up. Take out and stir with a spoon until it is combined well. At this point it looks kind of soupy. Then add the sugar and mix and fold until all is incorporated and it is no longer sticky. I take it out of the bowl when it gets to the point where most of the sugar is incorporated and I knead it in my hands. This takes roughly about 5-7 minutes. Take a fondant roller or a regular rolling pin and roll out just as you would Wilton's fondant. You can get this fondant almost paper thin and it also repairs well. It's cheap, easy to work with, and tastes great too

here's a link to the original post too. . . there are many tips and comments about the recipe on the forum http://www.wilton.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=77236&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

I think I recall it also being mentioned by someone on your blog somewhere too so perhaps there's a real baking blogger out there who's used it. I plan on making it sometime this week. . .I'll let you know how it turns out

Rose
01/14/2007 09:50 AM

it could be a combo--cake presented indoors and then cut and then served outdoors.

i've never heard of marshmallow fondant--do tell what it is. can you still roll it--somehow i'm doubting that!

sabrina
01/14/2007 08:21 AM

This is what I suspected. . . I think I was just hoping for some professional trick to make it possible! I hope I didn't waste your time with a foolish question. Maybe my sister will have an indoor wedding reception and I can make the cheescake for her!

I'm wondering if you have any information or thoughts on marshmallow fondant. I've never tried it but hear that it tastes much better than regular rolled fondant and would love an expert's opinion/advice regarding its use.

Thanks again, you are an inspiration!

Rose
01/14/2007 12:14 AM

i think it's risky as summer can be very hot and cheese is prone to bacteria when not chilled not to mention that the heat would soften the texture.

sabrina
01/13/2007 07:49 PM

Hi Rose,

I will be baking the wedding cake for my brother's wedding this summer and would very much like to make your cheesecake. for the occasion. I'm afraid though that this will not be possible as the wedding is outside in Pennsylvania in June and so it will most likely be quite hot and humid. My brother, his fiance, and everyone who I know who's tasted this cheesecake absolutely loves it though so I thought it was worth asking if you thought it might be possible to successfully make the cheesecake for their wedding despite the lack of climate control. . . have you ever tried the cheesecake for an outdoor summer wedding?

Thanks very much for your time and advice!

Rose
11/28/2006 08:57 AM

that should do it!

Anne
11/27/2006 03:59 PM

How do I convert a cake recipe to make cupcakes? Do I just shorten the baking time?

Rose
11/22/2006 07:48 PM

that must have been a long long time ago! it's amazing on your part that you would take the time to thank me. it's much appreciated!

Gena
11/21/2006 09:33 PM

I'm not sure where to post this but I want to say a much delayed 'thank you!'. I made my wedding cake for our wedding 5 years ago in our tiny NYC apartment. As I was getting everything ready in stages for the big day, I had so much trouble with the buttercream frosting. I panicked. This was before you had a blog. So, on a whim of despiration, I contacted your publisher to ask for help. She was so nice and informed me that you were in California meeting with Julia Child but suggested I email you. To my suprise, you emailed me right back with advice to use the neo classical buttercream instead of the traditional I had had so much trouble with. So, I just want to say thank you. You are a rare person to take such kind interest in strangers and their baking travails. Also, I love the blog. I just found it and I am addicted.

Rose
11/17/2006 07:51 AM

martina, i wonder if you are in italy bc the italian cake flour is excellent for american style layer cakes--often a problem with other european flours.

i actually published my recipe in "rose's melting pot."though out of print i think it's available on amazon and/or jessica's biscuit and probably for around all of $3.00!

Rose
11/17/2006 07:44 AM

su ching, please do a search on the blog for everything i've written about flour. that's the main problem you are having. the first essential is that the flour be bleached. then you might want to replace some of the cake flour with all-purpose even if not bleached as long as the cake flour is bleached.
in my next book i'won't be listing the finished heights partially bc there will be a photo of the cake and mainly bc it is too discouraging to pple who may not arrive at the same heights.
you're right--it is essential to have the butter between 65 aned 75 F so work fast after you've taken it out of the frig and allowed it to soften til you can press it down but it is still cool.
the stand mixer does a better job but as i also mentioned in the book a hand held electric will work if used on high speed and the beating is longer.

martina
11/17/2006 07:38 AM

Dear Rose,
I'm italian and I have just bought The Cake bible and The Bread bible (having waited for them from abroad for a long time). I'm astonished: never seen so wonderful books. For one who is interested in baking they are invaluable. And I have already tested it! Yesterday I tried to make Dobostorte for the first time; there isn't a recipe for it in the cake bible, but I put together biscuit de Savoie with 6 eggs(using confectioner's sugar for the sugar in egg whites), baked in six separate layer of 22 cm, and your classic buttercream with 4 eggs and 4 ounce chocolate.
It was very good, but not beautiful: as for the top layer I covered it with light caramel, but cutting it in wedges was impossible and it results in a disaster. What do you think? Could it be a good version for Dobos, or need more chocolate, or different layers? How do you do with decoration?(I've read on the web your preface of The pie and pastry bible, in which you say having long experience with it)
Thank you really very much for having written your books, Martina

Su Ching
11/17/2006 04:13 AM

Hi Rose,
I stumbled upon your blog one happy day, and have picked up a lot of useful information! Thank you for patiently answering questions.
I've been having a bit of problem recently with cakes from the Cake Bible, and hope to get your feedback.
I made the perfect all-american chocolate torte and it was all of 1 inch in height, but the texture was soft and moist. I weigh everything and used the recommended pan size, and used a kenwood major for the mixing. The cake rose to about the full height of the pan while in the oven, but after cooling sank back down to the level of the batter before baking. The same problem occurred with the chocolate bread, compounded I think by the fact that I used the wrong pan size (9x4 inch loaf instead of 8x3 inch). This time I used a small hand-held mixer as the kenwood was not available. After cooling it sank so much that the sides had a sort of caved-in look. The cakes were definitely fully cooked and the oven was not opened in between.
I'm wondering whether this is due to the cake flour I get here in Singapore. The brand provided at the most major baking supplies store unfortunately does not state the protein level, but I'm wondering if in general it is lower than american flours, thus causing the problem.
Could it also be due to our temperature (on average 29 to 30 deg C) making butter too soft?
Previously the problem was not so severe, though my cakes never reached the heights you had. I can't quite remember but I could have used a different brand of flour then. If I want my cakes as high as stated in the book, should I try mixing plain flour with the cake flour?

Rose
10/24/2006 10:16 PM

what a lovely compliment marilyn. i'm so glad you are enjoying my cake recipes and come fall of 2008 there will be 100 more!!! right now i am surrounded by baby cheesecakes, the most tender of grand marnier génoise, blackberry sabayon mousse cake--i think that's all since i gave away yesterday's efforts or should i say pleasures!

Marilyn Leahy
10/22/2006 05:20 PM

Yesterday I ended up with leftover bananas and decided I had to make cakes. I again used your banana sour cream recipe and it turned out beautifully light and delicious. I don't even like banana cake, but anything of yours is good.

The first cake was eaten while still warm topped with lemon curd. The second will have a sour cream ganache glaze.

There is never anything ordinary about your cakes. Thanks, Marilyn

Rose
10/05/2006 09:46 AM

p.s. in addition to zach's posting was my suggestions about making a smaller one and judging the consistency and several other suggestions so do look for it. i'm soon to post a way to follow links on your postings and new things that appear on the blog. this should make it easier in the future.

Rose
10/05/2006 07:56 AM

please put the words oven thermometer in the search box to the left and you will get all the information i wrote about oven thermometers. my first choice is the omega thermocouple (you can google this as well). not only is it accurate, it has a probe so the oven door doesn't have to be opened causing an innacurate reading and the temperature to drop. it's expensive but i've had miine for 20 years.
temperature is EVERYTHING when it comes to baking.

Shelly Arsenault
10/04/2006 10:09 PM

Rose,
You are correct. I did miss the posting and Zachs response. The problem is when making the three tier wedding cheese cake, directions say to leave it in the oven for 1 hr. after baking time of 50 min. without opening the oven door. I have as of tonight ordered the FoodPro Food Thermometer you mentioned in your book in hopes to be more accurate with the oven temperature. Is there a way to check the temperature during the cooking time without disturbing the cake? Cheese cake is all new to me. The batter was delicious and I'm sure the cake is even better. Thank you.
Shelly

Rose
10/04/2006 12:24 PM

shelly it seems you missed my posting and zach's in response to this. please do a search on the blog. meantime here's what zach wrote:Shelly,

It would be interesting to know what the internal temperature of the cheesecake is when you take it out of the oven at 50 minutes. If it's quite a bit below 150, that's a good indication it might be underdone and that your oven is running slow. I usually follow a rule of thumb that any cheesecake should make it up to an internal temperature of 150 (taken in the center with an instant read thermometer) to ensure coagulation of the eggs has the best chance. I've used this as a guide as I've made cheesecakes in different ovens, to know I'm at least where I need to be temperature-wise (I always bake mine in a water bath). And then of course there should be the important visual clues that Rose mentioned.

One warning about thermometers, if for some reason you were doing this with a cheesecake you did not bake in a water bath, the hole caused from the probe can make the cake crack - but I've never had this happen for one baked in a water bath. I've baked about 150 cheesecakes over the last three years and have never had one crack from the probe - and the 150 temp., along with the visiual clues, has helped a lot when deciding if its done. However, if it's 150 and still jiggles quite a bit around the edges and seems liquidy, it's still not done. Take it up to about 160 (which at 325 degrees usually takes my oven about another 10 minutes).

Shelly Arsenault
10/04/2006 12:11 PM

Hi Rose,

I attempted to recreate your three layer wedding cheesecake but did not do so well. It refused to cook all the way through. I checked oven temp. and it appeared alright. Can I cook it longer and if so how much. Can you give me some tips please? Thank you.
Shelly

Marilyn Leahy
09/24/2006 07:10 PM

The old recipe for a date/chocolate chip cake (such as the one in the Nordic Ware cookbook)is a good "keeper." I use 1/2 coconut oil to increase it's keeping qualities. It also adds an exotic touch. Most of these recipes call for too much water. I find 3/4 c. water to a cup of chopped dates is better than 1 to 1. I made a batch of mini-cakes today for the far-flung ones.

Marilyn Leahy
09/23/2006 09:01 PM

Or you could make some more...

That is what my kids are always telling me. :)

Rose
09/23/2006 08:59 PM

this is so funny: just this afternoon i had a sudden hunger fit for chocolate and scrounged around in the freezer and found a barcelona brownie at least 6 months old in the shape of a madeleine. i gae it about 8 seconds in the microwave and it was gorgeous. i remembered this is a fantastic recipe but not quite just how very fantastic it is until i tasted it again. i have two left and will ration them out very carefully.

Marilyn Leahy
09/23/2006 08:55 PM

Rose I just finished the first batch of barcelona brownies. Another instant classic for our family has been born. I wanted to test drive them first, so I made some for a fundraiser event tonite. I had to get them out of the house quickly for fear that they would get eaten. They are the BEST brownies I have ever had. Most are wayyyy too sweet or too cloying. Perfect texture, perfect sweetness, perfect moistness.

Instead of your financier's pan I used my airbake brownie pan (1/4 sheet) and they came out perfectly baked after 40 minutes. I increased the receipt by 2 and 1/2. I forgot to add the nuts, so I just sprinkled them on the serving plate and placed the finished brownies on top of them. I also squiggled the ganache as decoration rather than as "plugs."

Rose
09/20/2006 02:20 PM

it's almost impossible to over beat so possibly underbeating. you could try using bleached all-purpose flour which would give a little more structure.

Tom B
09/20/2006 10:10 AM

I've made a large-scale Chocolate Genoise from The Cake Bible a number of times, including wedding cake for 350 and, most recently, a birthday cake for 100. I love this recipe!

While the cake is always delicious, it sometimes comes out very delicate -- too soft for all but the slightest touch of syrup and nearly too soft to frost.

Any ideas about what's causing that? Am I underbeating my eggs? Overbeating them? Underbaking? Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Rose
09/18/2006 03:41 PM

two things that might help:

try rumford baking powder available in many markets and all health food stores. it's calcium not sodium so no bitter after-taste.

if the layers are dense either it's the temperature of the butter or you're not beating long enough. the butter should be cool to the touch but squishable 65-75 degrees. i don't know if you're using a stand mixer but if not, beat on high and longer. the batter should lighten in color and fill the pan at least half full if you've beaten it well enough.
and do let me know--the white velvet cake bible cake is a lot of peopole's #1 favorite.

Donna
09/18/2006 03:30 PM

This is a basic question, but a desperate one. I cannot figure out how to make a basic white cake from scratch. I am a great cook, and my kids love all my cakes except my white cakes, which they won't touch.

I have two problems. The first is a serious bitter aftertaste from the baking power, and the second is that the layers are very dense, especially at the bottom, as though they've fallen. I keep trying every year (I won't buy mixes, so birthdays are just torture trying to find a good recipe that will work), but so far no success. I have the Cake Bible, but I'm even failing at those recipes. Any ideas?

Thanks

Rose
09/17/2006 07:40 PM

i promise you will not regret it and you'll be the most popular mom!

Marilyn Leahy
09/17/2006 07:21 PM

Brilliant suggestion! I can see I will have to buy a new baking pan to keep up with demand.

Rose
09/17/2006 02:31 PM

send them the barcelona brownies (they're on the blog)of course cookies are always a good choice.

Marilyn Leahy
09/17/2006 02:11 PM

Rose, all the kids are back at college so I am looking for treats to include in care packages. The chosen goodies have to withstand at least a week in the post. Obviously no frosted cakes would survive, but what can I send besides pound cakes?

Marilyn

Rose
09/07/2006 11:56 AM

thank you dear juliana.

Juliana
09/07/2006 11:48 AM

I will also be praying for you and your family too, Marilyn.

Juliana
09/06/2006 05:33 PM

Hi Rose,

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Rick. I will pray for him and his loved ones.

Rose
09/03/2006 03:16 PM

thank you marilyn.

Marilyn Leahy
09/03/2006 02:40 PM

Now I can't wait for your new book!

Thanks for the encouragement about the french version of cream cake. It's nice to know that it will turn out well, thanks to your passion for detail, even if it isn't very much like the french cake.

I will certainly keep rick in my prayers. We are also battling cancer in our family.
Marilyn

Rose
09/03/2006 02:02 PM

thanks for reporting about the pa cake in the nordicware pan--i've been wondering how it worked! i'm sad to report that my very dear friend rick hecomovich is waging a fierce battle with cancer so i'm trying to round up as many prayers for his well-being as possible in cyberspace. he's worked at nordicware for more years than i know and has always been so enthusiastic and helpful to all bakers.

on another note, your thoughts for the pastry cream cake are just as i would approach it.

thanks for the encouragement re the boston cream pie. you'll be happy to know that i have a stellar recipe for individual ones--it's a long story (which of course will be in the book) but they blow the bigger version out of the water! the short story is that the idea came from a baker who used one of my cakes from the cake bible in a highly inventive way and it became such a hot seller he took a job in a s.f. restaurant on the condition that the recipe would belong only to him if he left--which he did--but gave me the recipe.

Marilyn Leahy
09/02/2006 08:04 PM

Hello again Rose

I am making a second batch of your Pineapple Upsidedown Cake since the first one went so fast. I am using Nordicware's new pineapple cakelet pans and your receipe seems to be just right for six cakelets if you push the dough well into the leaf detail areas.

I have long wanted to recreate a favorite cake we had while in France; a tender yellow cake with pastry cream filling and topping decorated with glazed seasonal fruit. Genoise for the cake, don't you think? And I will lighten the cream with whipped cream.

BTW, as you are working on another cake book, are you interested in including a recipe for Boston Cream Pie? It always seemed to not quite live up to it's potential. I am sure you could make it memorable.

Marilyn

Rose
09/02/2006 10:17 AM

i've put the keeping time for every cake in the cake bible bc i tried it out at room temp, refrigerator, and freezer. whenever i made a new cake recipe such as for a wedding or special occasion i always tried it out this way to be sure. every type of cake is different. i don't even know the recipes you are using but what i suggest since time doesn't allow this time to make a test cake that you look at the cakes in the cake bible that are similar and judge from there.

Joanne
09/02/2006 03:54 AM

Dear Rose,
I am covering a chocolate mud cake with rolled out icing for the first time. I need to have it done in 1 weeks time and was wondering how long it would last if I were to cover it 6 days before the event. I don't want to risk it tasting stale or dry if I prepare it too early.

Thanks

Rose
09/01/2006 04:55 PM

cake flour is always bleached. it is lower in protein than pastry flour which may or may not be bleached. pastry flour is lower in protein than all purpose.
i can advise you definitively about my recipes but in general your better off using what the author calls for as a recipe has a balance of ingredients and changing them will change the results. if you want to try substitutions best to do a small sample cake.

Mary
09/01/2006 03:21 PM

Is there a difference between cake and pastry flour? I have a recipe calling for all purpose flour in a lemon wedding cake. I understand the cake is more like a pound cake, with the addition of ricotta cheese and lemon syrup. It also calls for low fat ricotta and I am a firm believer of not cutting the fat in my baking. If I use regular ricotta, would this change anything other than making it richer tasting? If I use all purpose flour, would that be detrimental to the cake's outcome? Thanks!

Rose
08/29/2006 07:29 AM

thank you alicia and brava! weighing makes baking so much more easy, faster and more reliable as well. there's a theory that the reason americans stopped weighing (everyeuropean i've ever known has a kitchen scale) is because on the wagon trains in the wild west days they had to discard anything that was not absolutely necessary so they learned to rely on the volume method since there was always a cup!

to answer your question, any batter with leavening cannot be held overnight in the frig as 1/3 to 2/3 will dissipate from the moisture of the batter.

my brownie batter can be held overnight in the frig and the financiers i am working on right now for my new book actually benefit from an overnight stay--blending the flavors and firming the texture for dispensing into the small molds.

Alicia
08/29/2006 12:45 AM

Rose,

I have a question, but first let me say that I think you're a great teacher and I appreciate your scientific style... I weigh all my ingredients based on your carefully created weight chart... And it is common for me to actually bring your Cake Bible with me when I leave the house, and carry it around for a chance to read! I love it! This is great to read your forum, too :)

Anyway, is it possible to achieve good results by mixing the cake batter the day before baking and keeping in the frige overnight, for scheduling purposes?

Thanks!
Alicia

Rose
08/22/2006 11:48 AM

i think that both but not the genoise jeffrey would work--maybe that one would too but it's a different sort of cake from usual so not sure.

Juliana
08/22/2006 10:46 AM

The chestnut genoise, white genoise, and fudgy genoise jeffrey are baked in two 9 x 1-1/2" pans. Can I bake 2/3 of the recipe in one 9 x 2" pan or even in a 9 x 3" pan?

Rose
08/22/2006 09:31 AM

but the genoise is baked in a one 9 x 2 inch pan. the biscuit, however, is baked in 3 9 x 1 1/2 inch pans so 2/3 recipe could be baked in one 9 x 2 inch.

Juliana
08/21/2006 10:08 AM

Thank you very much, Rose. In fact, thank you for taking the trouble to answer all my questions. You make things so easy to understand. You are a great teacher!

By the way, when you use more than one cake tin for your layer cakes, you usually state that we can do 2/3 the recipe for 1 layer or 1-2/3 the recipe for 2 layers (if using 2-inch high pans), but you did not mention this for your genoise cakes or biscuits. Can the same be applied to your genoise cakes and biscuits because sometimes I just want to make one layer?

Thanks.

Rose
08/20/2006 05:27 PM

juliana, my first thought when reading your questions is "why is the moon blue?" there is some truth to this response because some things are quite simple the nature of the entity. to be more specific, cake is a structure based on egg more than flour so it uses low protein flour and people have come to prefer soft and tender crumb. bread on the other hand is based on a strong gluten network and is often used as a sandwich (in bistros, left over bread has even been known to be used as a sponge to clean the table!). people expect more texture in bread.
definitely the structure affects the taste--this is a very interesting point you've brought up--a perfect example is when using unbleached flour for cakes and the butter drops out of suspension. the entire texture is no longer soft and tender and even the flavor is weird though the actual ingredients aren't really different except for the unbleached flour that is, which would not account for the change of flavor.

Rose
08/20/2006 05:23 PM

kim, thanks for the feedback. i'm happy to know there are more happy bakers in this world!

Rose
08/20/2006 05:22 PM

helen, the perfect solution to making my chocolate cake richer without being denser is to apply a ganache glaze to the interior of the cake. (you are going to LOVE this!)i've only done this on a 9 inch layer so you're going to have to work out the proportions but it's easy.
for a two egg recipe, use 3 ounces/85 grams of bittersweet chocolate 51 to 61% but no higher, and 6 ounces/175 grams of heavy cream.
when the cake is baked, as soon as it comes out of the oven, poke deep holes with a wooden skewer all over the cake and brush in half the warm glaze. actually i found the directions i wrote up for the 9 inch layer:
While the cake is baking, prepare the glaze:
Break the chocolate into pieces and process in a food processor until very fine. Scald the cream (heat to the boiling point. Small bubbles will appear around the edges), and with the motor running, pour it through the feed tube in a steady stream. Process a few seconds until smooth. (Alternatively, grate the chocolate, place it in a small bowl and stir in the scalded cream until the mixture is uniform in color. Transfer the chocolate glaze to a small bowl and keep it warm.
When the cake is baked, place it still in the pan on a rack and with a wooden skewer, poke holes all over the top. Use a brush to dabble half of the chocolate glaze onto the cake. It will take about 10 minutes. Invert the cake onto a flat surface, such as a card board round or plate, which has been covered with plastic wrap or waxed paper. Peel off and discard the parchment and poke holes all over. Dabble with the remaining glaze, brushing a little onto the sides of the cake as well. Cool completely, for 1 or more hours, until the chocolate is firm to the touch.
do let us know how you liked it. since you have so much time i'd encourage you do to a trial version.

Juliana
08/19/2006 12:10 PM

Hi Rose,
Why do bakers aim to have large holes in bread but small, even holes in cakes?
Does the crumb size affect the taste of bread and cakes, or is it just for aesthetics?

Thanks.

Helen
08/18/2006 03:06 PM

I posted this in the wrong place so i will do it right this time.

I am making a chocolate wedding cake for my own wedding and tried your American Chocolate Butter Cake which was great but I would like something richer without being denser. I made a mud cake last night which was great but more like a desert. I am making it for 130 people and probably in 3-4 layers with your milk chocolate ganache. Any sugestions? I love your Cake Bible!

Thanks, Helen.

Kim
08/11/2006 03:24 PM

Hello again Rose!

Thanks so much for your help! I baked another batch of cupcakes using less baking powder, which did help the volume. I think, though, that my main problem was that I was underbaking them too! (how embarrassing!) My oven runs a bit hot, so they were getting brown on top before they were really done in the middle. I tried baking them at a slightly lower temperature, for a longer time, and I'm very happy with the results! If it weren't for you and the Cake Bible, I would never have thought to fiddle with the oven temperature, and I certainly never would have guessed about the baking powder! Thanks so much for all you do! :)

Kim

Rose
08/11/2006 02:03 PM

i use my fingers. and i add the whites to a separate little bowl before adding it to the whole amount in a larger container just to be safe in case some yolk should get into one--it won't ruin the whole batch should you plan to use the whites to make a meringue where a trace of fat will keep them from beating to stiff peaks.

Marilyn Leahy
08/11/2006 01:55 PM

I am separating 12 eggs for your golden genoise to be made up as madeleines (my family is soooooo spoiled). And I behold a question about eggs. What is the quickest, safest (in terms of not breaking the yolk) and easiest way of separating eggs?

Marilyn

Juliana
08/08/2006 09:05 AM

Thanks very much, Rose.
I'll let you know the next time I bake it.

Rose
08/07/2006 03:26 PM

it should work fine to use the same weight buttermilk as sour cream.

it's not the sort of batter that can support sultanas. you'd need a carrot cake for that. perhaps if you used a stronger flour but then it would be less tender. one thing you could try is tro sprinkle the sultanas (dusted with flour after moistening) on top of the batter after it has begun to set--say 10 minutes into the baking.this could worki. less us know.

Juliana
08/07/2006 12:01 PM

Hi Rose,

Can I substitute the sour cream in your Cordon Rose Banana Cake (pg 69) with buttermilk because I have leftover buttermilk?
If it's possible, do I use the same weight of buttermilk as sour cream?

Also, I tried to add some sultanas into your Buttermilk Country Cake but they keep on sinking. I soaked them in water for about an hour to plump them up so that they wouldn't draw in the moisture from the batter and dry up the cake. Then I patted them dry and sprinkled them into the batter after pouring the batter into the pan. But they sank.

The second time round, I folded them into the batter before pouring into the pan, but they still sank.

How do I keep them from sinking?

Thanks.

Kim
08/04/2006 02:47 PM

Thank you so much, Rose! I can't wait to try another batch! I will let you know how it turns out. :)

Rose
08/04/2006 02:22 PM

thanks kim! that's exactly what i needed to know so it has to be that your measuring spoons are slightly larger. i bet that cutting back the baking powder by 1/4 teaspoon will do the trick. you might even try 1/2 teaspoon if you want slightly rounded rather than flat. i like flat if i'm stacking one on top of the other but rounded if served individually.

do tell me how it works for you--i'm 99.9% sure that since you're weighing the major ingredients that's the problem.

Kim
08/04/2006 12:20 PM

Hello Rose,

I am using Softasilk cake flour, and I measure it by weight.

Rose
08/04/2006 10:09 AM

thank you kim!

please tell me EXACTLY what kind of flour you are using.

Kim
08/03/2006 04:23 PM

Hello Rose!

First of all, thank you so much for writing the BEST cake baking book in the world!

I've been baking cupcakes using your All Occasion Downy Golden cake recipe. The texture is incredible - soft, light, fluffy and melt-in-your-mouth. The only problem is that the cakes rise beautifully in the oven - but then about 5 minutes after I take them out they begin to sink in the middle. What do you think could be the problem? I'd love for them to be just slightly rounded on top, for the sake of presentation.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Rose
07/31/2006 02:58 PM

an american "dry measuring cup" (for those who don't know it is a cup with an unbroken rim as opposed to a "liquid measure" that has a spout is also 8 ounces or 238.35 ml. but please understand that for greatest accuracy liquid ingredients should be measured in a liquid measure and dry ingredients in dry measur, reliable, and easiest of all!

Juliana
07/31/2006 01:57 PM

Hi Rose,

Sorry I didn't explain myself clearly.

I am trying to convert American recipes (I got from the internet) using cups and spoons into the metric system because we use the metric system in my country. But I don't know how much volume is one American dry measuring cup.

Since 240ml of flour will weigh differently from 250ml of flour, I may have to scoop and then weigh ingredients to convert the recipes, but I only have a 250ml cup. So if an American dry measuring cup is 240ml, I will have to try to remove 10ml (2 tsps) of the ingredient from the cup.

Juliana.

Juliana
07/31/2006 01:55 PM

Hi Rose,

Sorry I didn't explain myself clearly.

Since 240ml of flour will weigh differently from 250ml of flour, I may have to scoop and then weigh ingredients to convert the recipes, but I only have a 250ml cup. So if an American dry measuring cup is 240ml, then I will have to try to remove 10ml (2 tsps) of the ingredient from the cup.

Juliana.

Rose
07/30/2006 04:43 PM

the beauty of the metric system is that the ml respond to the weight of water. so an 8 ounce cup of water = 238.35 grams or 238.35 ml. isn't that lovely?!

Juliana
07/30/2006 01:24 PM

Thanks Rose.

By the way, how much volume is one American cup? 250ml or 240ml?

Juliana.

Rose
07/24/2006 10:03 AM

2 cups is NOT half of 8 2/3 cups!

the amount of baking powder/baking soda for each size pan is listed on the chart in the book.

the amount of batter for each size pan is also listed.

if you prefer, you can simply make any amount of batter and fill the pans no less than half full and no more than 2/3 full and use the excess batter if there is any to make cupcakes.

Juliana
07/24/2006 09:35 AM

Thanks Rose.

What I mean is: do I just half the proportions of the ingredients, or do I have to change the baking sodas or baking powders a little?
The 6 inch x 2 inch deep pan is for 2 cups.

Juliana.

Rose
07/23/2006 05:29 PM

measure the volume of the pans and you will know how much batter you need.

Juliana
07/23/2006 12:35 PM

Hi Rose,

If I want to bake small quantities of your 9-inch cakes in 6-inch pans, can I just half the recipes for 9-inch cakes?

Juliana.

Rose
07/15/2006 11:07 AM

yes--it's the chocolate bread on page 28 and a real favorite of many!

Juliana
07/14/2006 12:32 PM

Hi Rose,

On page 1 (illustrations section) of The Cake Bible, you have a chocolate type of cake that was baked in a loaf pan that is not named. Is it the photo of "chocolate bread" which has the recipe on page 28?

Juliana.

Rose
06/28/2006 08:51 AM

laura,a convection oven, if not turned down 25 degrees would bake the cake faster and make a stronger structure. sounds like the structure has to be weaker if it's falling. i don't know what kind of flour you're using but if it's cake flour, try using half BLEACHED all purpose flour (by weight). by volume it would be less.
first i'd try using someone else's oven since your cake seemed to have no problem until you changed ovens to convection. that way you'd rule out that possibility.
let us know and good luck!

Rose
06/28/2006 08:49 AM

pam, you're right, that is the only mistake in the first edition of the cake bible. the correct amount is 8 ounces or 1 cup (16 tablespoons).
12 tablespoons would be 6 ounces.

LAURA WYATT
06/23/2006 09:38 PM

I have just made a apple cake that I have made many many times. The last three times Ive made it it has fell.I have a new convection oven and changed my baking powder for the last cake. Please help it is one of my best recipes that I compete with at fairs. Four blue ribbons .If i took the ones ive been making I wouldnt even win a honorable mention.

LAURA WYATT
06/23/2006 09:37 PM

Pam Washington
05/21/2006 04:57 AM

In "The Cake Bible", the butter conversions aren't consistent in butter cake section. For instance, in Perfect All-American Choc Butter Cake, 12 tablespoons of butter is converted into 8 ounces or 227 grams of butter. Isn't 12 T of butter the same as 3/4 cup or 12 ounces of butter, not 8? Is there an errata page for "The Cake Bible" that corrects these recipes?

Rose
05/14/2006 12:12 AM

you have no choice but to refrigerate a cake that has filling like cream cheese. it could sit out for a few hours but not longer than that. it won't sweat unless the refrigerator is very cold and the room very hot.

Pamie
05/10/2006 01:23 PM

I am about to make a four tier wedding cake. It will have in one cake lemon curd but the the other three have whipped cream mousse and one with cream cheese filling. The cakes I spray with Rum or Vermouth. Sealed with Butter Cream. How long can it sit out before delivering it. I am a new cake designer and wreck doing this cake. I would like to start early...just in case I am make a huge mistake. I was told cakes are preserved by the sugars and alcohol...and that there is no worry if left out a few days. I would love any input on this matter. I would refrigerate the cake but I am worried it would sweet once taken out... Thanks for the feedback...

Jo
04/30/2006 07:19 PM

I made buttercream for the first time using your Neoclassic recipe and was thrilled that it turned out so beautifully. I want to try making a meringue buttercream next. My question is why do buttercream recipes call for either egg whites or egg yolks but not whole eggs?

Tom
04/06/2006 12:22 PM

Dear Ms. Beranbaum,

I have, for years now, hosted my family's Easter celebration and I have, for even more years, made all of my cakes from "The Cake Bible". The "White Lily Cake" and the "Rose Trellis" have been our Easter desserts for more than a decade. Thank you so much for adding to my family's traditions!

I'm now the proud father of two young children. For their amusement, I just purchased the "Bunny Cake Pan" from Williams-Sonoma. (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/sku7628514.jsp). Now I'm facing the quandary of figuring out what cake to bake in that pan and how to dress it. Could you suggest a cake recipe that would bake well in a shaped pan and that would, upon completion, be sturdy enough to stand? I'd like my bunny to be white. Could you also suggest a buttercream or other topping that would compliment the cake?

Thanks!

Rose
12/01/2005 01:01 PM

yes! i saw it at barnes and nobles a month ago. the cover has a small (quarter size) round reddish color indication on the upper right side that says in white writing revised ingredients and equipment sections. it's the 34th printing.
incidentally, the bread bible and all future books of mine will never again fall apart because i now insist on a stitched binding!

Stephanie
12/01/2005 11:59 AM

You write in your reply to Jessica that "the first revision of the cake bible has just come out". I immediately went to Amazon to order a copy since my 1988 copy has been used so much it's falling apart. However, Amazon doesn't list a 2005 edition. Has the revision hit bookstores yet?