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How to Get a Crisp Brown Bottom Pie Crust
RONI QUESTION
I love to bake and have done so successfully for many years. The one thing I can't seem to do is to get a bottom pie crust to brown. I have used a Pyrex pie pan, a Pampered Chef ceramic pan, a French ceramic pan and a shiny metal pan. I have tried a number of pie crust recipes, too! Please help..Thanksgiving is coming, and I always make an apple pie. Thanks
ROSE REPLY
i feel strongly that if a bottom pie crust is soggy there is no point in having more than a top crust on the pie! i addressed this in my book “the pastry bible” where i give the technique for juicy pies of letting the fruit sit with the sugar to leach out the juices and then reduce them and return them to the fruit. this way you only need to use about one-third of the thickening agent which results in a more pure fruit taste and you won’t be left with a pool of fruit juices on the bottom of a soggy crust after baking the pie.
but this alone will not brown the crust. to achieve this, i bake the pie directly on the floor of the oven for the first 20 minutes of baking and then raise it to the bottom shelf. different ovens bake differently so you may need to leave it on the floor of the oven for a longer time. the best way to find out is to use a pyrex plate the first time you do this so you can see through it and gauge when sufficient browning has taken place. if your oven is electric and has coils on the bottom, the best alternative is to use a baking stone on the lowest shelf and preheat the oven for at least 30 minutes to ensure that it is heated fully.
i have recently designed and produced a special pie plate that is ceramic with deeply fluted sides to create a beautiful border effortlessly. it also does a great job of even browning of the bottom crust. it also has my favorite pie crust recipe decaled permanently into the bottom inside of the plate.
you can view it on www.laprimashops.com
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Denise, here is the recipe:
http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/recipes/RLB's%20Cream%20Cheese%20Pie%20Crust.pdf
Reply to this Posted by: Rozanne | July 21, 2008 9:01 AM #
what is the recipe with the cream cheese is it on this website. thanks denise
Reply to this Posted by: denise | July 21, 2008 8:50 AM #
What kind of apples are you using Theresa?
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | March 31, 2008 5:27 AM #
Theresa, try slicing your apples thinner--Rose has a note about this in her recipe. If your slices are too big, it leaves small gaps. When the pie cooks, the crust sets and holds, but the apples cook down and fill in those gaps, leaving a space between the crust and the apples.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | March 30, 2008 8:59 PM #
Theresa, perhaps you need to make some slits or cutouts on the top crust, so the steam inside the pie can scape thus preventing bubbling up the top crust.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | March 30, 2008 7:55 PM #
Why do my apple pie top crust rise with a space in between the fruit and the crust? I am hoping you can help.
Reply to this Posted by: Theresa | March 30, 2008 7:23 PM #
it's not only the brand, it could be the way the apples were stored. but these things can vary so you've been getting good advice about boiling down the liquid more or letting it sit longer to exude more liquid.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 8, 2008 2:05 PM #
You can also cook the syrup longer until there is less liquid. The last time I made the pie, I had almost no liquid at all...guess the apples were too dry. I had used Golden delicious. What variety were you using?
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | January 8, 2008 1:27 PM #
Hi Brad - What kind of apples did you use? You might experiment with several varieties to see which you like best - some give off more juice than others.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | January 7, 2008 8:51 AM #
This weekend I made your american apple pie as well as blueberry. I used your flakey cream cheese crust which I is the best crust I have ever made (I added a teaspoon of cofecttioners sugar to make it a little sweeter(.
Here is my question, How do I reduce the liquid in the pie. I let the apples sit and than drain them, as instructed, Reduced the liquid to a syrup. Poured it over the apples and than put the apples into the pie plate. There was still alot of liquid left. Any suggestions.
Reply to this Posted by: brad | January 7, 2008 8:31 AM #
http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/pine-apple-tart.htm
The Pine-apple Tart.
Flaky cream cheese pie crust coated with sweet milk chocolate, filling is fresh pineapple puree, topping is fresh red apple slices drunken with william's pear liquor and shiny apple jewel glace.
The liquor and glace kept the apples fresh for days. The chocolate kept the crust crisp. Refrigerated.
I wasn't sure if pineapples go well with apples when I designed this tart, but at least it rhymed. Indeed I think the tart was well balanced and all over delicious; most definitely chocolate goes well with pineapple as you do find fresh pineapple sticks coated with chocolate.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | December 4, 2007 6:26 PM #
Thanks for the quick response. I generally find that I need to add the maximum amount of liquid to pie crust - maybe it comes from living in a dry climate. My deep appreciation for your bibles. They have made a believer of me.
Reply to this Posted by: eve | December 3, 2007 12:07 AM #
this is a much more tender dough than the usual strudel dough. but first let me address the error.
originally the recipe was for 2 rolls therefore the 1 teaspoon of sugar that should have been changed to 1/2 teaspoon as it is in the chart.
there is no other mistake in the ingredients. if you look at the basic pie crust you will see that there is more liquid for this one and less butter. also that after kneading this dough it becomes smooth and satiny. if you need to add more liquid to achieve this it's fine. a hungarian friend of mine adds vodka to slightly dry dough to moisten it but prevent it from developing more gluten. but if you find the baked pastry too tender to your taste it's fine to add a little more water.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 2, 2007 11:57 AM #
There appear to be 2 errors in the recipe for Hungarian Poppy Seed Strudel (Pie Bible pp 401-404) - one minor, the other serious.
Minor error - the ingredients for the dough call for 1/2 tsp sugar. The directions for making the dough says to add 1 tsp of sugar for proofing the yeast.
Major error - the only liquid called for in the dough recipe is a scant 1/4 cup of water used to proof the yeast and 1/2 an egg yolk (the butter is solid). The resulting dough is extremely dry and does not rise properly and has no tensile strength. When I was making it, I thought maybe a yeast dough for strudel is supposed to be different than other yeast pastry doughs that I have made, but after producing a very tasty strudel that fell completely apart as it rose and baked, I am thinking the recipe needs water or milk or something wet. Has anyone else had this problem?
Reply to this Posted by: Eve | December 2, 2007 12:52 AM #
Since I only got a tiny bit of liquid I didn't even try to caramelize it...that's why I added the flour. I wasn't sure how much liquid the fruit would give off in the oven and I didn't want a mess. The flavor was wonderful...and i loved the crust. The filling was a little on the dry side...but the sweetness level was perfect! I'm going to try again with different apples...looking forward to the result of caramelizing the liquid...sounds wonderful. Thanks again for all your help.
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | November 16, 2007 4:48 PM #
i never actually used golden delicious and suspect that it is a dryer apple so adding flour would make it less juicy. will be interesting to see but i've made this pie even in france and always get more or less the same amount of liquid after one hour.
the only problem with getting less is that you have less to caramelize but it should be good--golden delicious is an excellent apple.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 14, 2007 5:47 PM #
Rose:
Well...I made the apple pie last night. As usual...I ended up baking way into the night/morning. My significant other just looks, does the head shake of disbelif...and goes to sleep. Anyway...I hit a little bump in my pie road. The day before I was planning on assembling the pie,I made the dough for the crust (I used the flaky pie crust recipe using the heavy cream...sounded yummy and wanted to give it a try). I refrigerated it over night, and yesterday I began assembling the pie. I used Golden delicious apples. I peeled and cored them and then sliced them in my food processor with a 1/4" slicing disc (yes...I'm obsessive about that too...just like the uniform cupcakes). I added all the lemon juice and all the sugars, salt spices etc and let it sit for an hour. Now, when I sliced the apples they weren't terribly juicy...and to my horror (lol) after an hour of sitting they had only given off about 2 tablespoons of liquid. I had no liquid to cook down and concentrate. I put them in the strainer and shook...and it gave off almost nothing more. I didn't have any time to wait...since it was approaching 1 am. So I tossed in a little flour so the pie wouldn't run all over the place and assembled and baked the pie. I put it on the floor of the oven, shielding the edge of the crust. After about 30 minutes I moved it up to the shelf, and when I took it out it looked beautiful. (I baked the scraps of the dough...to taste the crust...YUM!). I'm serving the pie tonight. If I had waited longer would I have gotten enough juice to cook down? Were the apples just too dry? I'll let you know how the pie turned out...but with the flour as thickener I'm just expecting a ho-hum result. I'll try again soon...I'm looking forward to using your method.
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | November 14, 2007 4:18 PM #
no but i wish i had!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 13, 2007 8:24 AM #
re: apple pies, I am tempted to make one in Italy using their famous Val Di Non d.o.p variety
http://www.italianmade.com/foods/subcat24020.cfm
apparently some apples are native from Italy!
Have you tried this apple? will it be worth the effort to bake one and carry it all the way to Hawaii?
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | November 13, 2007 1:55 AM #
Karen,
Rose updated the plastic-bag technique somewhere on this blog. She now recommends using latex gloves to knead the dough.
Rose does have a recipe for an all-shortening crust and a 50/50 crust. I have tried all of these, and the butter is equally, if not more flaky, and it has a better flavor. The only benefit I have noticed to using part crisco is that a refrigerated baked pie (such as a custard pie) stays a little crispier. I have also read that the crimping holds a bit better with crisco, but I haven't noticed a big difference myself.
Re: vodka, I think the idea is that vodka does not form gluten with flour like water does, so the crust won't be tough. If you use a lower gluten flour, like pastry or wondra flour, and follow Rose's liquid amounts, your crust will be perfectly tender and flaky as well.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | November 11, 2007 3:39 PM #
Hello Rose,
I am new to this website. I recently bought your Cake Bible and the Pie and Pastry Bible. I love baking and I am excited to try these informative books!! I am a little intimidated by the pie dough instructions because I am not accustomed to kneading pie dough in a bag, etc. I am wondering if you have an instructional video on-line or for purchasing? It would help me to observe the method.
I am also curious as to why you don't use the usual combination of butter and shortening in the recipes? I had read that butter alone did not provide as flaky a dough as those with shortening too. Obviously, you are the expert. I am simply curious about your reasons.
Finally, America's Test Kitchen has recently placed a new pie dough recipe on their website. The recipe uses vodka and I would love to know what you think of this method? They have instructional videos and explanations on their cook's illustrated website.
Thank you very much for your consideration of my questions. I appreciate your time!
Reply to this Posted by: Karen Levin | November 11, 2007 2:53 PM #
Rose, thanks...you're the best! I was certain that your methods would work perfectly...I just wasn't sure about cooking the apples...and was wondering what you thought. I have one of those metal shields to protect the crust...so no problem there. I'll keep you posted.
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | November 11, 2007 12:59 PM #
i think you'll be totally happy with my method of concentrating the juices. it will give you better flavor and texture than cooking them on stove top and there will be no spaces! i look forward to hearing the result!
by the way, be sure to protect the edges with a foil circle right from the beginning of baking.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 11, 2007 9:43 AM #
Rose:
Hi...back with another question. I'm going to be baking some apple pies...and I don't do a lot of fruit pies (I just don't love cooked fruit...and If I'm going to be doing all that work...I want to make something that I like!)...but I've been asked to do them for a party. I will be following your recipe in the pie and pastry bible...so far you've never let me down!...but a baking pal insists that one should cook the apples on top of the stove first...says that the filling comes out more compact...less space between the crust and the apple. Have you ever done this? what's your take on it? don't the apples come out too mushy in the end?
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | November 11, 2007 7:23 AM #
while we're wishing, i wish they'd make the standard depth and not the deep dish that cap chef makes!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 7, 2007 8:35 PM #
Rose, what is amazing is that I also asked Lodge to begin making pie plates. This was after I bought the Camp Chef, and I expressed to Lodge concern that the Camp Chef products are made in China (?lead?). I never heard back from Lodge, but it could be that I made a mistake when typing in my e-mail address, as I noticed I had here on my first post (.netk). I like the pre-seasoning on the Lodge better; so I still hope they will make the pie plates at some future time.
Reply to this Posted by: Kerry | November 7, 2007 7:27 PM #
kerry--it's amazing--i presented the same idea to lodge not realizing someone had already done it! i can't wait to hear the results. good thinking about compensating for the continued baking. note that when i bake on the bottom of the oven it's only for the first 20 min or so. burnt crust is of course unpleasant. if prepheating the pie pan i'd do it on the oven shelf and not on a baking stone.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 7, 2007 8:15 AM #
Actually the pie crust that turned out so good was in a clear Pyrex pan. I bought the cast iron with the thought of preheating it for frozen pies (which I have not yet tried). Since you can have the pie all made up, frozen, and in no plate, it seems like it might be a perfect solution. I will report back - hopefully it won't explode in my oven! A problem might be that the pie will continue to bake long after it is removed from the oven. I will have to compensate. Anyway, Camp Chef is the only brand of cast iron pie plates I've found. Their url is http://www.campchef.com and it is under the category of Cabin Kitchen Cookware for $19.99. Amazon sells it for $16.99.
Reply to this Posted by: Kerry | November 7, 2007 5:28 AM #
kerry where did you find a cast iron pie plate? the only problem with cast iron is that it's slow to heat but once it heats it retains the heat. glad to hear it worked well for you.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 6, 2007 8:37 PM #
from freezer to oven rack but not from freezer to oven stone as that would probably prove too much of a shock.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 6, 2007 8:30 PM #
I think the Emile Henry will work. That is the pan I use and I typically refrigerate before baking and I bake on a stone. Rose says they can go from the freezer to the oven too (p. 664). Kerry, for more general info, see pages 17-20.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | November 6, 2007 7:44 PM #
Kerry - I wouldn't risk putting my cold/frozen Emile Henry into a hot oven either. I would use metal pie pans instead.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | November 6, 2007 3:09 PM #
Thanks, Matthew. I thought I saw someone write once that you could take the Pyrex from freezer to oven. But I guess not. However, is that something you can do with the Emile Henry clay/ceramic pie plates?
Reply to this Posted by: Kerry | November 6, 2007 1:12 PM #
Oh, and as far as breaking, don't try it with the Pyrex.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | November 6, 2007 8:50 AM #
Kerry,
No need to agonize. Since you have the P&PB, keep reading, and you will find complete instructions for baking frozen pies. Basically, the only difference is extending the baking time.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | November 6, 2007 8:49 AM #
Hello, I am ready to make pies using the Pie and Prstry Bible; and, for the first time, freeze them. But I agonize over how to bake the frozen pies. My thought was to preheat the pans to ensure bottom browning. In other words, I would put my stone on the lowest rung, and preheat my pan along with the stone. Then place the frozen pie directly into the preheated pan. I'm not worried about breaking the aluminum pan, but will any of these break: Pyrex, Emile Henry, cast iron? Has anyone tried this?
Reply to this Posted by: Kerry | November 6, 2007 6:02 AM #
they can sit at cool room temperature for several hours.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 3, 2007 9:31 PM #
How do I store a cooked pumpkin pie? I am making a lot for Thanksgiving. How long can they sit at room temperature?
Thanks!
Reply to this Posted by: EMMA | November 3, 2007 1:12 PM #
Absolutely with Matthew and Bill!
If prepping ahead is your goal, you could keep the unbaked shell in the refrigerator for several days or frozen for months. Then bake it straight from the refrigerator or freezer, moist proof it, and fill it just ahead of time to chill your wonderful fresh fruit and whipped cream pie prior to serving.
I am hungry.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | October 19, 2007 3:44 PM #