Raw Egg Safety Regulations
Nov 22, 2005 | From the kitchen of Rose
Erica Question:
Good Morning Mrs. Beranbaum,
I purchased your book about a year ago and I think it is great
I am planning to use your buttercream icing recipe for a wedding cake that I'm doing in December. I wanted to know if I should forewarn people about the use of raw egg yolks? Actually, I was also wondering if the yolks were cooked a little when I add the heated sugar/corn syrup combo?
Thank you for your time. -Erica
Rose Reply:
food safety experts agree that the highest risk is for young children, the elderly, pregnant, and those whose immune systems are impaired. the hot syrup is not sufficient to eliminate all risk.
since i'm not a food safety expert, i'd like to direct you to the american egg board: www.aeb.org.
they recommend the following:
1) use the buttercream recipe on their website, or follow the guidelines for recipes you may want to adapt
or
2) use pasteurized eggs in the shell available in some markets (pasteurized is marked on the carton)
or
3) use egg product (liquid or frozen eggs). at the present time these are available mostly to food service.
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Rose Levy Beranbaum in reply to comment from elma
09/23/2010 08:41 PM
elma, i haven't made either but i can tell you that the only benefit of candy melts is when making chocolate decorations. they don't contain cocoa butter but rather a shortening that makes tempering the chocolate unnecessary as it will not 'bloom' or form that unsightly greyish white coating. real chocolate with cocoa butter will harden just as well and it sounds like what you're doing with it is mixing it in with other ingredients so bloom is not a problem.
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elma
09/23/2010 03:58 AM
Hi Rose,
I would like to know if you make cake balls or cake pops? my question is regarding the candy melts used in making cake balls. Here in my country, there is no candy melts being sold in any baking supply stores they only have the bar chocolates used for ganaches or cakes. Can i use this instead? do i have to add something to the chocolate to harden it?if so what do i do?
Thanks, i have two of your books - the cake bible and the heavenly cakes! i love the recipes!
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hector in reply to comment from Julie
05/18/2010 02:18 PM
i am sorry you had such mishap. instant read digital thermometers are now widely available, i wouldn't leave the house without one. for sugar/caramel readings, always stop the cooking 5 to 10 degrees under; by the time you turn off your stove, the temperature will jump up this much. sugar heating behaves in increments of 5 to 10 degrees rather than 1 degree, when reaching upper temperatures
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Julie in reply to comment from Aileen
05/18/2010 09:40 AM
Hello, Aileen, I'm not Rose, but I have made this before so perhaps I can help.
Sounds like the first batch had the sugar mixture exceed 285F. Consider checking your thermometer in boiling water, and be sure to remove it from the heat promptly at 285F. Work quickly to add vanilla and soda and pour it immediately onto the nuts.
As for the second batch, perhaps the mixture crystallized? Try stirring less, just enough to prevent burning.
Good luck!
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Aileen
05/18/2010 07:44 AM
I have been trying to make Rose's Mahogany Buttercrunch Toffee. First attempt last night turned out great in texture and appearance but it was burned so had a bitter taste and was inedible. Had another go this morning. It was bubbling along nicely and just before it reached 285 degrees it turned from a liquid bubble to a sugary mass - I assume it seized. What did I do wrong? Hate to give up on this.
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Brianna
02/18/2010 05:34 PM
They probably blamed their foodborne illness on "stomach flu" or a hangover. People are notoriously bad pinpointing what made them sick.
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Shannah Zorn
08/08/2009 08:26 PM
Hi,
I just made the neoclassic buttercream recipe from The Cake Bible, and it is possible to get the egg yolks up to 160 degrees when adding the hot syrup/sugar mixture. Heat the egg yolks to around 120 in a double boiler with a little bit of butter before adding the boiling syrup/sugar mixture. I have used this recipe many times with unpasteurized eggs and have fed wedding cake to hundreds of people. I have yet to hear of anyone getting sick.
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Mary
12/05/2007 08:47 AM
Hi Rose,
My husband makes a chocolate mousse "cake" that calls for many raw eggs. We were always nervous serving it, especially to elderly guests. We followed guidelines found in "Cookwise" by Shirley Corriher for killing salmonella in eggs without cooking them. We set up a waterbath at 165 degrees F, separate the eggs into mason jars and place them in the waterbath for 20 minutes. This prolonged low heat kills the bacteria - the same effect as a quick kill at a higher temperature. Be sure to continually swirl the jars to be sure that the eggs are heated evenly.
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Hector
10/05/2007 02:03 PM
Beth, don't quote me on this as I am not a certified food safety officer. But I feel cooked eggs do-not bring any danger of salmonella as uncooked.
So, cooked eggs, should have the same handling and shelf life as most other ingredients in your pie.
If you have a wine cellar, store your pies there, at about 55 degrees. It is a wonderful environment to store as room temperature! (not too cold, not warm). Things that can't be refrigerated shouldn't be refrigerated ok? (can get soggy, condensate, etc).
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Beth
10/05/2007 11:21 AM
This is a separate issue, perhaps, but I'm getting ready to try the pumpkin pie recipe from the Pie and Pastry Bible. I normally refrigerate custard pies, as I remember reading that they should be kept cool because of the custard. But in the pie bible it says that the pie can be left out, for 3 days I believe. I'd like some advice, if anyone has it. Also on egg safety, I travel to Italy usually once a year, and have several times had sabbatical years there. In Europe they tend not to refrigerate eggs at all in the stores. I never feel good about buying them in the summer, as a result. Are we just super vigilant about eggs in this country? On the other hand, I have heard of people getting sick from eating eggs in Italy.
Best,
Beth
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Hector
10/05/2007 04:27 AM
Gwyneth, I freeze eggs, separated, and was able to whip heavenly cakes with them, genoise, biscuit, butter ones, etc. Also, yolks for curds, cremes, etc.
I've not tried frozen whites for mousseline buttercream though, but I don't see why wouldn't it work. Neither for bavarian creams, wherever eggs don't get further fully cooked. Just in case.
Cake Bible, under ingredients, mentions how to deal with frozen eggs.
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Gwyneth
10/05/2007 02:30 AM
I read in another section that Hector used frozen egg yolk in one of the other threads. Can one seperate and freeze the unused portion of the egg for later use? I hate throwing things away that are perfectly good but aren't called for in that particular receipe.
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Patrincia
08/23/2007 06:29 PM
Cathy - that should work well for you.
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Cathy
08/23/2007 04:57 PM
I just found some pasteurized egg whites and eggs (liquid in the carton) at the grocery store. They are a Kroger (Ralphs here in CA) brand and called "Break Free." I am anxious to try them.
Hope this helps those who are looking.
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Rose
08/22/2007 04:18 PM
the cooking time normally brings it to 140 to 150 degrees F. you could bring it to 160 or use pasteurized eggs.
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Kimberly
08/22/2007 04:10 PM
I recently made the Chocolate Oblivion Truffle Torte and was wondering about the eggs in it. It was absolutely delicious, but I was wondering if the cooking time was enough to kill all the bacteria in the eggs. Thanks.
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Theresa
08/22/2007 02:40 PM
Thanks, Matthew and Patrincia - I will check this out!
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Patrincia
08/22/2007 02:18 PM
Hi Theresa - yep, I've purchased them many times, but I haven't seen them in 4 or 5 years now - can't remember the brand name. If you do a google search for "pasteurized whole eggs" you'll get a lot of hits. I would used them for meringues and other recipes that called for raw eggs (at the time my children were young, so I was a bit more apprehensive about that sort of thing). If my memory serves me correctly, they weren't terribly expensive either.
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Matthew
08/22/2007 02:13 PM
This website lists locations that stock these eggs (or how to request them at your local store):
Safe Eggs
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Theresa
08/22/2007 01:31 PM
Patrincia, I didn't realize they pasteurized them right in their shells! For myself, I have no hesitation to "clean" the beaters, bowls, etc. of raw batter with unpasteurized eggs (major perk of baking!), but if you're cooking for elders or children, it would be nice to have that extra level of safety.
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Patrincia
08/22/2007 12:00 PM
I used to be able to find actual pastuerized eggs (whole eggs in their shells) when I lived in the mid-west, but I haven't seen them since I've moved back east. Has anyone else seen these egge?
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Theresa
08/22/2007 07:25 AM
Rozanne, that's good to know. Does anyone have a U.S. brand name of pasteurized egg whites for me? I've seen things like "Just Whites" (or is it "All Whites"?) in cartons at the supermarket, but I don't know if they can necessarily be used the same way as regular egg whites in terms of beating for meringues, etc.
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Cathy
08/21/2007 09:28 PM
I'll look for it here. I understand what you are saying. I'm thinking of children's birthday parties/baby shower cakes....(!) Want to lower the risks as much as possible. Thanks, Rozanne.
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Rozanne
08/21/2007 09:21 PM
Cathy, I am referring to pasteurized liquid egg whites sold in cartons. At least that is how it is sold here in Toronto. I have two kids and I am always concerned about stuff like this and so far the pasteurized whites have worked very well.
Rozanne
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Cathy
08/21/2007 05:56 PM
I'm sorry--I just read Rose's responds above. The syrup is not enough to eliminate all risk.
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Cathy
08/21/2007 05:47 PM
Rozanne, No, but I am learning that pasteurized eggs are safer. Is that what you are referring to--reg pasteurized eggs/whites, right? Thank you; this is good to know.
I did also read last night here that the temp for killing salmonella is 160 degs, and the sugar syrup that you pour into the egg whites is 250 degs. So it appears that it would take care of any problems by the mixing of the syrup. Is this correct, Rose?
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Rozanne
08/21/2007 03:29 PM
Cathy, have you tried pastuerized egg whites? I use it for the mousseline buttercream all the time and it works like a charm.
Rozanne
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Cathy
08/21/2007 12:52 AM
Rose, the egg products you mention in #3 above is not the same as egg substitute now found in grocery stores is it? Would you ever recommend egg substitute for someone concerned with egg safety in buttercreams?
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Rose
01/27/2006 11:07 PM
if you'd like to my best yellow cake recipe, just put the name rose's favorite yellow cake recipe in the search area to your left and it will appear. all you need to do is fill the cupcake liners almost to the top. they will take 20 to 30 min. to bake.
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nikki
01/23/2006 09:06 PM
hey rose, dont really know who you are, but i figured you could help me. i need to know how bake cupcakes from scratch step by step? silly question but nobody knows. i have to demonstrate in front of my class. i know how to bake, but i dont know all the ingredients for scratch cupcakes. please respond asap. thanx a whole bunch-nikki
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