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A Quick and Easy Sourdough Starter
INGE QUESTION
Feedback: I love to bake bread and would like to have an easy starter for sour dough bread.
I have several but they are pages long and I need a short, to the point starter. I have a bread machine but prefer to bake bread in loaves.
ROSE REPLY
there is a reason that instructions for sourdough starters are pages long. once you have developed a starter it only takes minutes once a week to keep it alive for years, but establishing a healthy starter is an achievement which feels akin to a miracle and miracles don't happen overnight. there is an answer for those who want an easy but excellent starter and that is to purchase an established one. king arthur is a great place to get a sourdough starter and you can also find other places on line.
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Does anyone have an idea how Schlotski sandwhich shops make those wonderfull buns? I've tried to pry info out of shop employees, but they plead ignorance.
Reply to this Posted by: Doyle Gougler | October 4, 2008 10:23 PM #
Hi Tiina, long discussion, well blogged here, do a search, you will find all answers.
Be sure you use bottled water, as tap water may contain too much chlorine. For bread baking and weekly starter feeding, you can use Britta pitcher water.
I would keep following the instructions of The Bread Bible, things will occur on a very approximate schedule. It is so alive, that it depends on the air, temperature, the flour, it is all good.
Kitchen room temperature is best than cool pantry. I would say around 70 is best.
Do report back, and don't give up, my starter took longer than expected, and it often showed signs of streaks every day or other day or so, keep refreshing for the weeks stated, as long as you see activity. The bad bacteria (dark colored streaks) will appear, as the good bacteria reproduces and takes over. As long as you keep things relatively clean (it doesn't have to be an sterile environment), and as long as you keep feeding, the good bacteria will set, and you will no longer see dark streaks.
Some of my friends have left forgotten my established starter that I gave them, for months in the refrigerator. The starter becomes darker with think dark streaks. I have them re-start the feeding schedule, and the dark streaks dissapear.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | January 27, 2008 10:52 PM #
Hey! I was just trying to make a sourdough starter using the instructions in the Bread Bible. I did all the correct steps. I used organic rye flour and bottled water, and i put the mixture in a four cup glass measuring cup. Then i put plastic wrap over the top and on top of that i put a lid that came with the glass measuring cup. It fits over it like tuber-ware. I left it in my cool pantry area and two days later nothing had happened. It still looked like the same blob of rye and water. After that i left it out in my kitchen a day or two more. I thought maybe my pantry room was too cold and being at room temperature might make it active, but all that happened was it turned slimy and mold started to grow on it. What did I do wrong? Was putting the tight fitting lid on top a bad idea? or maybe the flour i had wasn't orgnaic. I got it in the health food section of Publix. It's called Hodgson Mill. It claims it's all natural and stone ground on the label and the only thing in the ingredients list is 100% Whole Grain Stone Ground Rye Flour. What's going on? Please help! I've had so many sourdough starter failures i would just like to get it right once!
Thank you a bunch in advance!
Reply to this Posted by: Tiina | January 27, 2008 9:49 PM #
This is Basic Sourdough Bread, replacing 25% of the final water with honey. Honey imparts a softer and fine crumb. The crust was dark since I kept baking at 450oF instead of 400oF (lower for high sugar breads). Dutch oven method.
Silpat has -nothing- to do on this bread, it is just lining my baking sheet as I often do like to use a baking sheet as a food tray!
I made a 4 side, square slash, with a lightly oiled serrated knife.
Wanted to report, for all of you that find difficult to transfer a wet dough into the dutch oven. Try this. Do your final rise/shaping on a large parchment paper. When ready to bake, lift the bread with the parchment paper, and drop it together with the parchment to the dutch oven.
If you have problems with a wet/spongy bread, you can remove the bread from the dutch oven and parchment after 15 minutes (when the crust has set), and bake directly on a baking stone for the remainder time. The baking stone will help absorb moisture.
Enjoy
http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/BasicSourdoughBread-DO-with-parchment.html
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | January 27, 2008 2:39 PM #
Chris, THANK YOU for reporting back. Welcome to the starter group! We are plenty people with starter on this blog.
My starter has changed my life, it is a true living member of my family that I need to feed and care.
I've just made bread at my home in Hilo, and the Basic Sourdough Bread took ages to rise (to reach twice in volume) since Hilo is 10 to 20 degrees cooler than Honolulu.
I never let bread rule my life, but I do run my life around bread. Slow rises can break my sleeping cycle: the bread often reaches the risen-ready stage on the middle of my sleep. I used to wake up on the middle of my sleep to care for dough, but instead now, I use the refrigerator to further slow it down so it is risen-ready when I normally wake up! There are postings on this blog on how to use refrigeration when dough becomes untimely!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | January 2, 2008 3:58 AM #
Hi Rose-
I posted on November 9 questions regarding a sourdough starter that I was experiencing difficulties with. I am happy to say that I finally have a healthy, happy starter that is very tasty. A little patience was all that was needed.....I appreciate the advice and enjoy seeking information from your website. Also, thanks to you Hector, for the words of encouragement. I enjoy reading your words of wisdom.
Reply to this Posted by: Chris | January 1, 2008 9:33 PM #
agreed, I was also told that not long ago the train and mail system in Italy was very third world country (no offense on this general saying).
I took my local friends to try Brunch (a new thing for them), but first they had to have collazione first before leaving home! Eating is the most sacred part of the day as they say!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | November 12, 2007 1:29 AM #
forgive me for saying this but i've heard there are so many strikes in italy (and i know there are in france) that they are accustomed to handling them. except that when lufthaunser begged us to take a plane from germany to bologna instead of florence and promised a bus to take us to the intended destination of florence, no one in bologna had any awareness of this situation though there wound up being 20 people who had been rerouted. by the time we got to florence, almost the entire airport was closed. our rental car agency, sixt also didn't bother to wait for us. utilizing my high school italian, supplemented with opera, the god father, and art history such as the word pieta, i persuaded the police to find us a room not far from the airport. when he told me that there would be collazione i thought that meant they would collect us by taxi but no--it turned out to be breakfast---a word i hadn't encountered!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 11, 2007 7:53 PM #
Cindy, miss blogging, but quickly, yes the strike was on the train system on Friday. I was going by train from Venice to Florence, so I got a few delays of not more than 10 minutes. They are so organized here that even when on strike, the strike is only from 9 am to 4 pm, and not longer than 1 day long!
Will report soon about so much food my camera and myself have been eating in Italy!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | November 11, 2007 3:25 PM #
Hi ,Hector, heard that there 's strike in Rome or so ,does that affect you?
Reply to this Posted by: cindy chiu | November 10, 2007 6:29 AM #
Chris, dont give up. My starter took 2 months of daily or every other day feeding at room temperature. And I live in hot weather. Hot weather was causing my new starter to behave differently with too much activity before actually setting the starter.
That was over a year ago, and I am so happy now, because my starter works! and it is so easy to feed once a week, refrigerated, stiff starter. I am vacationing in Italy now, and brought my starter, and baked bread!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | November 10, 2007 2:19 AM #
coincidentally i just read this on the bread baker's digest:
From: yguaba@yahoo.com.br
Subject: Re: Sourdough help
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:58:42 -0800
Sourdough starters are *really* easy to make. My apologies to all who
have actually paid for starters, but it's like paying for chopped
onions instead of chopping them yourself.
Here's one possible way to start a sourdough culture. (1) Mix 1 1/2
cups rye flour (dark rye, if possible) with 3/4 to 1 cup water. Cover
and forget about it for a day. (2) Combine half of the previous day's
rye batter (don't worry if it doesn't smell good) with 1/2 cup rye
flour, 1/4 cup unbleached white flour and 1/2 cup water. Repeat this
process after 12 hours. (3) Combine half of the previous day's batter
with 1/2 cup unbleached white flour and about 1/2 cup water. Repeat
after 12 hours, and twice a day from then on.
By the fifth or sixth day your newly cultivated starter should be
rising nicely and the strong, foul smell should be gone. When you see
it's really nice and active, it's ready for use.
As for what factors affect starters, the most important one is
without any doubt the local flora of fungi and bacteria (in the air,
in the rye flour etc). I moved to Canada from Brazil just over three
months ago, leaving behind the sourdough starter I had been
cultivating for four years or so. I've now had a locally cultivated
starter for about two months, and it makes great bread.
They behave *completely* differently, though. For one thing, I'd
always read that when you first start the culture with rye flour, the
smell is awful. In Brazil I never got the bad smell; here in Canada
the thing stank to high heavens.
In Brazil I used to keep my culture in a *very* cold fridge (3º C
max.), and only needed to feed it about once a week (taking it out of
the fridge before using, of course). If I didn't use the culture for
two months, it would look like a soup gone bad, but the smeel wasn't
bad, and I could revive the starter by feeding it a couple of times.
Here in Canada, my starter (also kept in a cold fridge) needs feeding
more often, or it will look horrible after just a few days.
In Brazil my culture was active even at fairly low temperatures:
bread would rise, albeit very slowly, in my cold fridge. Here the
bulk fermentation of a batch of Vermont Sourdough (I should call it
BC Sourdough) at room temperature (about 21º C) will take a whole
day, so I usually put it in a really warm place, like an oven that's
been turned on for a minute or so. But it will produce wonderful
bread regardless.
My Canadian sourdough bread is a lot more sour than the same bread
when I made it in Brazil. In fact, the whole flavour is different. (I
tend to prefer the Canadian sourdough, but that may have more to do
with the great bread flour that I can buy here which cannot be found
at all in Brazil.
To sum up, I suspect that New Zealand sourdough will be completely
different from either Brazilian or Canadian sourdough. That's the
beauty of it! Keep us posted on how your sourdough turns out, and
what it tastes like.
Erik
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 9, 2007 9:11 PM #
i can't see how it could have starved when you continued to feed it. everyone who has ever had a problem with starter has succeeded but sometimes it takes longer than you think it will especially in a cold area.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 9, 2007 9:08 PM #
Hi Rose - I have tried a couple of times to start a soughdough starter from scratch, following instructions from the Bread Bible. Each time, I have had success through day 3-4. I start with the recommended organic rye flour and am using bottled water. I experience the faint aroma and bubbles - and on day three I see a double volume increase that deflates and falls. On days four and five, I continue to follow the instructions, but see no activity after the defation on day three - no bubbles or increase in volume. I did continue to toss half and feed for another four days, to no avail. It appears gummy. I have read elsewhere that the starter could have starved? Do you have any recommendations?? I live in Oregon and have heard that sourdough from the Pacific Northwest is tasty. Any help will be appreciated. I am attempting another.....
Reply to this Posted by: Chris | November 9, 2007 4:19 PM #
Caro and Carina to everyone, I could not resist but share this short posting. Hope I awaken your senses. Miss blogging, in Italy now until nov17.
...just woke up at 4:45 am with that feeling of not having slept well for a week. I am really getting tired of this 11 hour jet lag time difference between Hawaii and Italy. I went to the couch next to my bed to check the progress of the Basic Sourdough Bread, it looks beautiful, very round/tall ball and rising... the 00 flour must be strong! My little infrared thermometer indicates 65oF
Then I went to the kitchen to check my starter I've fed yesterday and placed in the fridge. When I opened the fridge, the "stink" smell of a fresh truffle I bought in Bologna for Luca's parents was obvious! They are waiting for one evening/weekend to get the family together and enjoy the truffle freshly shaved over pasta.
At the kitchen, I was staging The Bread Bible to photograph something and immediately blog it (I am having blog withdraws, lucky thing I only blog on this site!). Could not take the photo 'cause I did not realize everyone's bedroom door was left opened since the weather isn't that cold yet, so I was waking up everyone with the noise I was making in the kitchen! When I noticed I immediately put everything away and turned the lights off and went back to my bedroom, and now you have me awake and blogging!
I wanted to photograph The Bread Bible next to the bread, and with the flour 00, the truffle, and perhaps my pillow too!. It is the first time I had to literally 'sleep' with my bread to keep it warm and rise properly!
So, you will just need to close your eyes and make the photo with your imagination!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | November 6, 2007 11:39 PM #
where did you send the photos?
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | September 17, 2007 6:40 PM #
yesterday I decided that i am a coward, and won´t be trying the sourdough now. Anyway, thanks for your help with this. I print each one of your answers.
I sent you some images of my new bread, not very beautiful, but i am very proud of it (like all mothers are of their offspring)
Reply to this Posted by: Silvia | September 17, 2007 6:36 PM #
Silvia, anyone will do, just keep in mind to stay as far as possible from bleached and from whole wheat.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | September 17, 2007 5:53 PM #
Finally, i'm beeing paying lately with the idea of "my own sourdough starter".
I have just a couple questions about the flour. All I have here to choose from is: AP bleached flour; unbleached (it seems unbleached to me, more yllowish than the AP)enriched flour; unbleached strong flour, unbleached pastry flour and whole wheat flour. Neither organic nor rye flours. Which one of them would be better to start my starter with? And to feed it? Thanks in advance
Reply to this Posted by: Silvia | September 13, 2007 4:10 PM #
Ingrid, personally I NEVER use commercial yeast when baking sourdough. Using commercial yeast is a technique mostly used in bakeries to expedite the sourdough bread baking process.
YES, make your own sourdough starter using The Bread Bible, exactly. The gray/brown/tan/citrus liquid the forms on the top after a day at room temperature should be scooped out with a spoon right before you feed it. Keep doing this daily for about 2 weeks (daily feedings, room temperature).
After these 2 weeks, convert to stiff starter and refrigerate. Feed once weekly. At this point there should not be any streaks of color. The color will be uniform, and of the tan shade of your flour color you used. You will notice on your weekly feedings that the starter will have risen. Most likely this growth will be a little during the first weeks, but eventually it will be double growth.
Keep up the good work.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | August 26, 2007 4:24 AM #
Thanks Hector, very reassuring. I tried my first loaf from a starter that used commercial yeast. It was very good and now I'm feeding that starter. I started another with just wheat flour and water (following Rose' instructions) and after a day at room temp the top layer was grey, not brown. I stirred it and put it in the fridge. Should I start over or keep feeding this one? I certianly don't mind experimenting.
Reply to this Posted by: Ingrid Johnson | August 25, 2007 11:08 PM #
Ingrid, I have had that happen during my starter creation, and I am still alive and all the hundreds of people I have fed. If you want to be extra safe, wash your hands and utensils well before and after handling your starter during its creation (before to avoid adding more germs than necessary to the starter, and after to avoid any starter germs to contaminate you!). Really, the amount of bacteria, even if bad, is minimal (not more than a rotten tomato I would say!)
During the creation of your starter, you should avoid this golden brown tinted liquid, by refreshing sooner. But if it happens, just scoop it out, and you will notice after a couple of days of refreshing it will be gone.
It took me about 4 weeks to create my starter, I live in very hot weather and this golden brown tinted liquid appeared each time my weather was too hot and I did not have a chance to refresh sooner to compensate. Toward the end of the 4 weeks, it was happening much lesser.
After 4 weeks I converted my starter to stiff and kept it refrigerated with weekly feedings, and the yellow liquid or any streaks of colors do not appear anymore. This is when I know it is ALL good. At this point I don't keep things sterile anymore! (just the usual clean kitchen)
Welcome to the sourdough group, I call it magic because it is amazing that you can make bread with just flour, water, and salt! (sans the dozen other ingredients of commercial breads!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | August 24, 2007 6:48 PM #
Hello,
After much hinting I got The Bread Bible for my birthday. I am just beginning to try a sourdough starter. I'm a bit paranoid about determining if it is growing the "bad bacteria" that produces "streaks of color." (I'm a bit more cautious about bad food because I am pregnant.)Could you describe this a little clearer? Is there a certain color that is bad? Is it common? I noticed a little golden brown tinted liquid on the surface of my starter. Am I right to assume that is the alcohol and not something bad?
Reply to this Posted by: Ingrid Johnson | August 24, 2007 3:43 PM #
it sounds like it got contaminated. i wouldn't use a starter that has an odd color of any sort.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 28, 2007 4:33 PM #
I have been using sourdough for close to 30 years. I was told that if the liquid on top turned a reddish tinge it was bad. Is this true? Or would it have something to do with the type of flour I used when expanding the dough. Mine was reddish a couple days ago when I went to use it and it seems to be acting funny. When I mixed the flour/water in to set over night it just separated again - dead? So I added sugar, It bubbled but did not hold and so separated again. I then tried rye flour (a flour sourdough loves!) and again it bubbled a bit longer but now is separated again - 8 hours later. Should I start a new batch or continue trying to recover this one?
Kathi
Reply to this Posted by: Kathi Wiedenhoeft | May 28, 2007 9:42 AM #
http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/BasicSourdoughBreadDO-silpat_uncovered.html
With bleached flour, here is what happened: basic sourdough bread spreaded sideways in spite of baking it on the baby lodge dutch o. It was equally delicious though.
I made 2 loaves of basic, and 2 loaves with raisins. For the raisin bread, I substituted by weight the amount of water with soaked raisins (soak your raisins in hot water, covered, until it cools off).
These loaves were final shaped on a WELL floured siliocone mat, uncovered. Convection was used throught the entire baking. The baked bread was inmensilly less spongy.
The raising bread was baked at only 400oF to prevent over burning.
Breakfast was great this morning.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 24, 2007 1:48 PM #
RE: making Basic Sourdough Bread with only expanded starter, all I did was skip Step 3 (I didn't add the final flour and rising and shaping). I allowed Step 2 to rise until doubled for about 2 hours in my oven set at 100oF convection (bread rise setting), and then bake it. Nice golden crust and tangy flavor.
RE: making genoise quintuple? I think you will need a 20 quart mixer!!!!!!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | March 30, 2007 3:32 PM #
we measured the bowl and it rises that much in the bowl (not during baking though).
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 30, 2007 8:22 AM #
Rose - will the genoise recipe really be able to be mulitplied by 5?
quadruple = 4 units
quintuple - 5 units
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | March 30, 2007 8:16 AM #
p.s. matthew--funny you should question the word quintuple bc in my new book i was going to write that génoise batter quintuples but i wrote quadruples instead bc i wasn't sure quintuples was a word or if it were if anyone would understand it!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 30, 2007 1:15 AM #
guys--it could be that it's after 2 am but though i've read these postings at least 4 times--i can't entirely follow what hector is doing--you don't mention how long it takes to rise without going through step 3--but if it works--stay happy with it! i'm too tired to read it again!i think it's one of these things that's easier to do than describe. if i understand correctly,you just baked it a day sooner with a higher amount of sourdough and that's why it's so orange and dense.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 30, 2007 1:14 AM #
corrected:
Matthew, good question!!! No, I didn't just add more flour/water to get a big Step 2. I followed the recipe from the beginning, but I doubled/tripled/etc many times more. I started from Step 1 with more starter than the recipe calls. When Step 2 was done I weighted it and took only 1008 grams and added 16 grams of salt (Step 3 uses 6 grams of salt for 504 grams of dough, for I added 16 grams to my 1008 grams of dough.... add the water, flour, and starter from step 3 and it is 504 grams). And NO, I have never yet added yeast to this recipe, because I don't think I should. My breads are coming very nice and the rise is fantastic. I think yeast is added when you want to speed up the process, but I do love watching my dough rise slowly....... I started making Basic Sourdough Bread because my roommate is sensitive to sugar and yeast (some erroneous allergy tests after all). The first time I tried it, I felt that a miracle has happened where only flour, water, and salt can make a bread. Also, the bread is "fat free" since you don't add any butter, milk, or dry milk (plus less to worry to stock in your pantry). I make this bread about once a week, and sometimes plenty of it. I have estimated that the shelf life of this bread is 1 week at room temperature or 3 months frozen!!!!! I also managed to store it in my refrigerator for about 1 month without a problem of humidity... well my refrigerator is set to 32 degrees(The acid in it is a good preservative). I like to toast slices and make paninis. Also, by far, the best baking method I use, is to do the final shaping in my lodge cast iron dutch oven, and also bake it in there. It is good and practical and the bread does not loose volume during the baking. Sorry I write sooooo much!!! and welcome to the Basic Sourdough Bread community.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | March 18, 2007 3:17 AM #
Matthew, good question!!! No, I didn't just add more flour/water to get a big Step 2. I followed the recipe, but I doubled/tripled/etc many times more. I started from Step 1 with more starter than the recipe calls. When Step 2 was done I weighted it and took only 1008 grams and added 16 grams of salt (Step 3 uses 6 grams of salt for 504 grams of dough, for I added