Bread Questions

Dec 02, 2005 | From the kitchen of Rose

A New Bread Coming Soon
those of you who are avid sour dough bread bakers, start getting your starters ready because in a few weeks i’m going to post one of the best bread recipes i’ve ever tasted from the wonderful restaurant primo in maine. i’ve tested it every which way but lose and have to admit that price, baker/co owner, is 100% right when he said you have to have a starter for this bread to come out right. it’s a carmelized onion focaccia and you’ll LOVE it!

Manrique Question:
Dear Ms. Levy Beranbaum,

I recently bought a copy of The Bread Bible and I read it when I go to bed! I also try out some recipes, of course. Thank you for your such an interesting book.

I've been trying to make baguettes and I'm getting better at it. I do have a question regarding the scrap dough described on page 337. You describe the mixture as "very soft and sticky" but I find that 57.5 grams of flour plus 1.2 grams of salt do not get soft and sticky if I add two tablespoons plus 2 teaspoons of yeast water. Are the quantities that you indicate correct?

Thank you very much for your time.

Regards,

Rose Reply:
i notice you are writing from another country so i bet your flour has a higher protein content and is therefore absorbing more water. OR you are measuring and not weighing and getting more flour than i specified. either way, add more unyeasted water until you get the proper consistency.

Christine Question:
Hi Rose,

I love this new site. Thank you for all your hard work.

Here's my question. When I want to double a yeast bread recipe, should I also double the amount of yeast? One cookbook I consulted says you should double all the ingredients except the yeast. Maybe you've discussed this in "Bread Bible," (which holds an esteemed place on my bookshelf, by the way) but I haven't been able to find the answer.

Thank you!

Rose Reply:
thank you! i always double the yeast when i double the recipe. i have also read that less yeast is required when recipes are increased but i’m quite sure, especially from experience, that this refers to larger increases. yeast and bread dough seem to behave differently in larger amounts.

Cheryl Question:
Hi Rose;
I have baked from your books for years, and love the Cake Bible, and the Pie Bible and am working my way through the Bread Bible. I've loved everything but tonight I finished baking the panetonne and am somewhat disappointed on two accounts. One, it is barely sweet--almost a non-sweet taste, I would say--and second, the flor de sicilia (which I measured very carefully) has left the bread bitter. I did not alter the recipe at all and it rose beautifully and has a great texture. Is is possible that more sugar or corn syrup should have appeared in the recipe?

Thank you for your help.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Barbara Question:
If I use the mini paper molds (individual serving size) instead of the 6”x4” size, what adjustments in time do I need to make at step 8 (final shape and rise) and step 10 baking)?

Thanks very much. Your recipes are always the best ever!

Rose Reply:
smaller panettone bake for 25 to 35 minutes. since the unbaked dough will rise to almost 3 times its height, and it’s nice to have it rise a little above the paper liners during baking, i would fill them about ¾ full.

Joyce Question:
Hi, I have a recipe from a 1941 cookbook that calls for 1 cake of yeast. Can I use the fresh yeast sold in supermarkets are they the same weight now as then? Also what would be the measurement for active dry yeast?

Thanks for all your help. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Rose Reply:

i can’t tell you the size of the cake of yeast but i can tell you about how much yeast to use in relation to the amount of flour in the recipe. also, i’m a great beliver in instant yeast. for 1 cup of bread flour use about ¼ teaspoon instant yeast. if using active dry add a tiny bit more. if using all purpose flour instead of bread flour use a scant ¼ teaspoon instant yeast. these proportions are for the basic hearth bread but if you’re making a bread with a lot of eggs and butter such as a brioche you will need to double the yeast

Lou Question:
Hi Rose,

First, let me start by telling you that I have all of the "Bibles" and they are fantastic. I have yet to have a recipe not come out perfect and I cannot thank you enough for that. Your cheescake and flourless chocolate cake are amazing and I have been asked countless times to make them for friends and co-workers. My new favorite is the Linzertorte. I have a bread question that I hope you can help me with.

My favorite bread is the Italian bread that is is found in all of the good bakeries (especially the ones in the Bronx). It is called a Bastone and it is torpedo shaped and covered with sesame seeds. I have searched high and low and cannot find a recipe for it. I have made your Ciabatta and Puglise and they were great, so I am hoping you might have a recipe.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this.

Regards,

Rose Reply:
thank you so much lou for your kind words. i’m sorry to disappoint you but this is not a bread that i have pursued. have you checked carol field’s book “the italian baker?” if she doesn’t have it i don’t know who would. do try the primo focaccia that i plan to post in a few weeks. i think it might make you forgive me for my lapse!

Sarah Question:
Hi! I made your chocolate chocolate chip bread twice and I think I'm doing something wrong. Everything goes really good until I add the second half of the cocoa paste in two additions. Once it is all incorporated the batter starts to look kind of grainy and possibly loses volume as well. The final product loses some butter which you can actually see almost condensing on the parchment paper used to line the loaf pan, and the flavor is almost a little watery. I followed the timing instructions exactly. Am I overbeating or something?
thanks,

Rose Reply:
it sounds to me like the butter is too cold and can’t stay in suspension. it needs to be soft but squishable (65 to 75 degrees F). it shouldn’t be too soft or warm either. as for the flavor being watery—i wonder what kind of cocoa you are using and perhaps you should try another as this quick bread is intensely chocolatey. try the organic green and black which is fantastic.

Betsy Question:
Dear Rose-- Love your Bread Bible.

Question: I have been trying to perfect the sacaduros and am running into a few snags.
The dough looks exactly like your drawings but the finished product does not look like the last drawing. I just don't feel like they poof up enough during baking. I have been baking bread for a long time so feel like I know what I am doing.

So my question is: do the rolls need to rise for a bit before you bake them, or only while you are getting the whole pan of them ready?

Also--what causes the outer part of the roll to be "too" hard?

Thanks a million.

Rose Reply:
at daniel they did not let them rise before baking but maybe since they were doing a larger quantity they started to rise by the time the last ones were done. it wouldn’t hurt to try letting them rise a little. is suspect that would solve the problem. i was there a couple of weeks ago and found myself giggling bc the saccadoros were so hard on the outside i had trouble breaking into them with my fingers! they are a special treat so they are not always available. now that you’ve made them you know why—they’re very labor intensive!

if you would prefer for them to be softer, you could add some oil to the dough. when i want to make softer hamburger buns from my basic heart bread recipe i just add ¼ cup oil for 1 pound/3 cups flour.

Mitch Question:
I have made your recipe for sacaduros rolls. They are delicious but I am having trouble in having them open up during baking. I think I am sealing it too much when I cross over the dough. Got any hints?

Rose Reply:
i’m thrilled to hear you’re trying this recipe as my editor and i deliberated long and hard as to whether to sacrifice so many book pages to it! please see my reply above re letting them rise a little after shaping and yes, seal a little less firmly as they won’t open if sealed too tightly.

Hector in reply to comment from Tea
05/05/2012 03:40 PM

Tea, what filling and what cake did u use? What u experienced is common if the filling is soft and the cake heavy. U may consider using a type of cake that is lighter or a filling that has more consistency. The thickness of the filling is also consider, also if there are any fresh fruits that can hold the layers, and also how far from the edges u spread the filling.

Tea
05/05/2012 02:54 PM

Cake filling question: I made a 4 layer cake, 3 layers w/filling. The filling weight down the cake so that in a few hours the support sticks poked through the top and the sides looked squashed. How is the supported with filling?

Rose Levy Beranbaum in reply to comment from Elayne Mott
06/13/2011 07:33 PM

elayne, the bread bible also explains about how to soak hard grains overnight and how much water is needed to do this.

Hector Wong in reply to comment from Elayne Mott
06/13/2011 07:29 PM

Elayne, i replace 10% of bread flour by weight on my bread recipes, with grains such as red wheat berries and kamut seeds. often, i replace up to 50% indeed, but it changes the texture a bit.

Bread Bible explains in detail much more, and what to do to compensate on water. whole grains usually require adding more water.

Elayne Mott
06/13/2011 06:41 PM

Recently I was given a container of Old-Fashioned Steel Cut Oats... I would like to use this in making bread....is this a good or bad idea? If good, what amount would I use in a recipe?
Thanks.

Elayne
countrymouse@ns.sympatico.ca

Serene in reply to comment from Hector
08/30/2010 01:35 AM

Thanks very much for your advice Hector :)
Have an awesome day ahead!

Hector in reply to comment from Serene
08/29/2010 11:44 PM

Serene, it should work. You can also freeze prior the first rise. Honestly, what I would do is make both loaves and freeze the baked bread.

Serene
08/29/2010 11:39 PM

Dear Rose,

I have just started to learn how to make bread and i have failed many times, as my bread always came out with a really tough crust. So i decided that i should switch to use your Basic Soft White Sandwich Loaf recipe in the Bread Bible. As the recipe yield 2 loafs, I like to ask you if it is ok for me to freeze part of this dough after its first rise for a few days until i'm ready to bake it? I understand a rich dough like brioche can be frozen after its first rise, but not sure of other kinds of bread dough.

Many Thanks! :)

Rose in reply to comment from Liz Tree
02/17/2010 10:55 PM

i would get an electric oven with convection option.

Liz Tree
02/16/2010 02:44 PM

Please help!!!!!! Gas or electric for Artisan Bread???
Hello, please advise. We are buying a new range, for sure gas cook top, but what is best for bread gas or electric oven??????
Thank you!!!!!!

Rose in reply to comment from Nona Odom
02/15/2010 11:53 AM

vital wheat gluten will help. but that in the search box or look at what's recommended in my book or on the box of the vital wheat gluten!

Nona Odom
02/14/2010 07:29 PM

Hello again...I let my bread rest as you suggested, and that really helped...another question I have is when I make wheat bread (I use Montana Wheat for all my breads)...it does not seem to rise as well as the white four, any suggestions? (I usually use 1/3 wheat to 2/3 white.)

Rose in reply to comment from Nona Odom
02/09/2010 08:45 PM

nona, that has happened to me, even when baking one loaf and i think it's the shaping. it really helps to let the dough sit (covered) for 20 minutes before shaping so it can relax. for some reason it never happens with beer bread.

Nona Odom
02/09/2010 06:46 PM

My loaves of bread go into the oven looking very nice...but come out one side higher than the other...like it has split on the side. I thought since i bake two or three at a time the loaves that are closer to the sides of my oven were getting too hot and rise faster...so tried just one loaf and got the same results...I am going crazy trying to figure this out.

Matthew in reply to comment from Beth
01/15/2010 09:00 PM

Beth, there is a recipe for it in the Bread Bible.

Beth
01/15/2010 05:21 PM

I need a recipe for a pullman bread pan. Its 13 inches long, and I tried the recipe from King Arthur's website, and my family did not like it. Does anyone including Rose have a recipe for a decent pullman white bread please?

Leota Schiermeister
02/26/2009 01:08 PM

I have baked bread for years and for what ever reason I have never thought of substitute flours. I have found a whole wheat recipe for 45 a calorie a slice bread.Is it possible to exchange white bread flour for the wheat flour

Rose
01/26/2009 08:47 PM

i feel quite certain the problem is the shaping. when making wholewheat bread make sure it is moist enough so that when you pinch the bottom seam it will hold together. also be sure to let it rest covered for 20 minutes before shaping the loaf. this results in the most even rise and best shape.

Joan Smith
01/24/2009 03:42 PM

I like to make whole wheat bread and am happy with the taste and texture of my recipe but after baking, the sides are not even (I think they call this an uneven shear?) How can I correct this? What causes it? I googled this and your site comes up, but I cannot find the answer. I did have fun reading all the questions and comments and am glad I found you. I also tried the no-knead bread and liked it enough to make it three times. I even liked it with 100% whole wheat. Thanks for your help.

Rose
07/22/2008 04:22 PM

it would surely help to dimple the bread before shaping it to prevent large holes.

hector
07/05/2008 11:18 PM

be sure your previous rises never goes over double or what recipe indicates. when this has been excedded, yeast is exhausted thus final rise won't be as high as indicated plus getting the characteristic flat top.

Melissa
07/04/2008 11:15 AM

Hi,
I was wondering why when i make bread after i shape my loaves and place them to raisse a second time does my bread rise but never double and my tops are flaat?

Annie
06/27/2008 10:46 AM

It could be that you are not rolling the dough up tightly enough. There needs to be some tension in the dough while you are rolling it up and it's advised to pinch each turn to seal it before continuing. If you have The Bread Bible look at pages 66, 67, and 68 where it is well explained. Also, make sure you don't have too much flour on your work surface as the excess flour can form streaks in the dough which inhibit if from melding all together.

AS at Mediocre Chocolate
06/26/2008 12:35 AM

What causes large tunneling in bread? I developed a recipe for soft sandwich bread inspired by your Ricotta Loaf, but with wheat flour and no egg. The first time it was amazing. Since then when I tried a double batch or increasing the recipe,it has had huge tunnels. What could be causing this?

amy
05/30/2008 06:58 PM

thanks. a very handy dandy link to have.

Barbara A.
05/30/2008 04:36 PM

Amy, if you are converting from ounces to grams or vice versa, you can use www.onlineconversions.com -- I use it at work when I am talking to a customer that lives in a "metric" country.

Hector
05/30/2008 01:47 PM

Hi Amy, I am so sorry, but that is maybe the ONLY ONE project I haven't finished.

Now I use my Mac computer, it has built in widget software to do this.

amy
05/29/2008 09:22 PM

Hector - somewhere in these myriads of postings, I read one from Rose to you regarding the creation of an excel worksheet to simplify the process of metric conversions. I wonder if you had (in your spare time, ha, ha) done it and if you'd be willing to share it.
I'm very poor in math and have to run to the internet each time I encounter this kind of problem.

Rose
03/08/2008 04:34 PM

yes, make your own mix from the grains i suggested and you'll be much happier.

Annie
03/05/2008 04:33 PM

Hi, Rose!
I just started making some breads from the bread bible recently (the basic white loaf and the tyrolean ten-grain torpedo). The white loaf was delicious, but the ten grain had no flavor. It is a beautiful loaf and very crunchy, but flavorless. I used a 10 grain hot cereal mix from bob's red mill. I followed the recipe pretty much verbatim. Can you give any input/help?
Thank you.

Hector
03/04/2008 11:19 PM

Mattie, that is great news! starters are the most lively things even when it doesn't seem so!

Mattie
03/04/2008 09:50 PM

To Louise Allen & Hector- I wanted to report that my bread (French Country Boule) made from my "sluggish starter" turned out amazing! For the record, it took 5 days to turn this project from beginning to end, but it was well worth it! If I were camera and computer saavy, I would post photos--great crust, nice holes (not as large as the very active starter breads I have seen here, but impressive all the same!) And the taste was wonderful. My office staff enjoyed it too! Anyway, moral of the story--press on and have fun! I did! In the meantime, I am working on jump starting this sluggish starter. Hopefully it will do its doubling soon--I am ready for more sourdough! Thanks again for your encouragement and tips.

Jennifer
03/04/2008 01:15 PM

Just found your site- looks fantastic!
Im hunting for a whole wheat crumpet recipe- any ideas where to find one?
Thanks!

Mattie
03/02/2008 08:20 PM

Thank you! My starter for step 1 doubled after 24 hours! Because I hate to waste and love a challenge, I have "pressed on" and expanded a second time. After 10 hours it has doubled. I will refrigerate til tomorrow and proceed with bread. It smells wonderful and I am encouraged because of all your postings! I will also try to revive my starter with organic rye--good suggestion. I have had to revive it once before. For those of you regulars on this blog, forgive me & disregard my post on the sourdough starter section. I was impatient and wanted to capture the attention of someone who might be able to help me! Bread bakers are such awesome folks! Thanks again!

Hector
03/01/2008 07:49 PM

Mattie, from 1/3 cup to 1/2 cup THERE IS activity! I get this every now and then, so no worries. To bring to speed a lazy starter, more active, keep feeding it each time it doubles, about 2 or 3 times, the starter will become more active (rising time will be faster each time). 78-90 degrees isn't necessary, plus what a pain to keep oven light on/off. Room temperature as low as 60 degrees will do, it may take about 12 hours to rise, just forget about the starter and come back to it after half day!

I live in the tropics so room temp is never an issue, but when I spent my winter in Italy, room temperature was 45 degrees, specially at night! What I do is keep my starter in my bedroom near my bed with me when I am sleeping, and during the day I would move it near the heater.

Here is my picture "sleeping with the starter," Torrebelvicino, VE, Italy

Louise, I keep 100 grams, too!

Louise Allen
03/01/2008 04:00 PM

I sometimes have a problem when feeding a small aount of starter. I have tried with good success the suggestion posted elsewhere on this blog to use organic rye. It seems to help activate the starter.

Also, because I have a problem with small amounts, I tend to start with 100 g when feeding. Rose – what do you think about that?
Good luck and let us know if it works. Louise

Mattie
03/01/2008 03:44 PM

I think I have a dead starter! I am attempting basic sourdough from the BB with my starter birthed about a year ago via the BB. I am in the first part of expanding the starter (fed 25 g of starter with 50 g flour + water) yielding 1/3 rounded cup. After 7 1/2 hours it has barely risen to just under 1/2 cup. What do you suppose happened? The temperature where it is sitting to rise is in an oven with a light on (78-90 degrees) I turn the light on/off to control the temp. Do I need to birth a new starter? It has never risen to the level others I have seen on your site rise. Help!

Danny Gellert
02/29/2008 03:01 PM

Hi Rose,

I made English Muffins from the Bread Bible last weekend. Can't believe how perfectly they turned out. This weekend I'm making bagels. But what I really want to make is Montreal-style bagels. Any advice on how to achieve good results? Can you suggest modifications to the Bread Bible bagel recipe? Thanks for all the great advice.

Rose
02/19/2008 10:17 AM

it was a long long time ago--king arthur. you should try googling if they no longer carry them.

Matthew
02/19/2008 09:48 AM

Do you recall your source for crumpet rings? I'm having a hard time finding the size specified in the BB--especially the correct height.

Hector
02/19/2008 03:11 AM

Navaz, I love the tall layers, and also how you left the spatula marks which makes things looking delicious!

Patrincia
02/18/2008 03:43 PM

Navaz - I LOVE your cake! Your scroll work and borders are stunning, and I know it tasted fantastic!!!

Rozanne
02/18/2008 10:34 AM

Excellent job! You are talented.

Rose
02/18/2008 10:17 AM

i can't believe this is your first--brava!!!

Matthew
02/18/2008 10:06 AM

It is really stunning Navaz, especially the gold!

Navaz
02/18/2008 02:19 AM

Oops, I'm had trouble with posting a photo. Here it is! p.s.-- more pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/16478775@N06/2273156011/

Navaz
02/18/2008 01:56 AM

Rose,
I just finished my first wedding cake ever (I even got paid for it)! The top 2 tiers were your white butter cake and the bottom was the chocolate butter cake, all filled w many pounds of strawberries and white chocolate ganache, and frosted with white chocolate ganache (which I have to add held up beautifully for 26 hrs with no refrigeration!). I "airbrushed" the filigree on the ganache with gold dust by blowing gold dust onto it through a straw so my line of fire would be more precise. The bride and groom said it was the best wedding cake they had ever had, and the restaurant that otherwise catered the wedding told me that people had asked them how they could buy more cake to take home, since they thought the restaurant had done the cake! Needless to say, after half the guests had seconds and some had thirds, there was no cake left at the end of the night. Now one of the guests has asked me to do her upcoming wedding too! Again, I owe it all to Rose and the unsurpassed taste of her cake recipes--so thanks, Rose!

Rose
02/16/2008 02:30 PM

please do a search for cuisinart mixer on this blog as i know i've talked about this before. i would get the cuisinart instead of the kenwood but it's a toss-up between kitchen aid 6 quart and cuisinart 7 quart. they are both fantastic mixers but it really depends on what you do the most. on each of their sites they have all the features so you will be able to do a comparison.

Jeannette
02/16/2008 09:43 AM

i really don't know what you did wrong or right(!!) but all I do know is that I made this bread from the same website following the same instructions and mine turned out perfectly, SORRY! I am also quite a novice with breadmaking by hand but was intrigued by the recipe and the video and I was quite pleased with my loaf, nice flavour and very crusty. However, it wasn't my favourite bread so I have not repeated it since. I know there is a lot of information on this site to help you so you'll not be without hints and tips for next time you attempt it1

Matthew
02/16/2008 03:02 AM

Russ, you'll find plenty of information about this bread by searching this blog. Here is a place for you to start reading:

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2006/12/noknead_balloon_bread_loaf_10.html

Russ
02/16/2008 02:14 AM

Has anyone tried the New york times No-Knead bread??? To me the finished pictures looked really, really good, nice crusty crust, moist and airy interior and looked delicious, and I saw the recipe posted on various baking web sites, stating that this was a good bread recipe for beginners. So, being a beginner and wanting a GREAT bread dough recipe, I thought I'd try this one. I did and the proccess was not as expected so, before I try it again I need to know what I did wrong or if what I did was right, yea right, the raw dough just seemed to hard, actually to soft to work with, it was a like thick sticky glue. I followed the recipe measure by measure, mix by mix, and Knead by Knead which I didn't have to do for this bread recipe, which is good I guess. I did let it sit for 18 HOURS, MAY I REPEAT 18 HOURS, on my counter, covered, at room temp., as instructed, after which, the recipe instructs you to place the dough on a floured board. I think I failed at this point, but probably during the mixing. I had to pour or scrape the thick gooey, very stickey dough onto my cutting board, like some really wet Play-do. I didn't know if this was what it was suppose look or feel like, since there was no pics of the uncooked dough on any web sites. The recipe says QUICKLY form it into a ball and put onto well floured, non-terry clothed towel. Well I QUICKLY TRIED..... and TRIED...... to form it into a ball, but COULDN'T, how do you form a dough that has the consistancy of Elmer's glue into a BALL? It kept spreading out like a really thick glue or waterey plaster, if it was red it could of been " THE BLOB" and the dough stuck to my hands so much, even though they were covered with flour, that if I put my hands in the oven I could of made bread gloves. It was like a GOO that formed it's own shape, I couldn't form nothing, no ball, no loaf, no rolls. There I was thinking with this goo dough stuck on my hands, is this what the dough is supposed to be like. I wasted a lot of the dough trying to get it onto the floured towels and then thinking, how am I going to bake this *#**. I needed some pics, of the pre-baked dough to know if I or the dough was right. Imagine, me in the kitchen with dough/Blob covered hands, trying to read the recipe, to see what I have to do next with the BLOB or needing something out of the cabinet, or needing to scratch some body part and can't touch NOTHING, thank god I pre/heated, and still thinking, this dough's not right, but let me finish, maybe it's supposed to be like this, after all there is no pics of the raw dough. Then the recipe said to QUICKLY form a ball out of the dough and place it in a WELL FLOURED TOWEL, and cover with another well floured towel, non terry cloth. Well the dough did not rise, just spread and even though I had the towels really covered with flour it stuck to both towels I could not get all of the dough off of the towels. Can any one tell me what I did wrong with this recipe, because obviously I did something wrong or if I did this right, let me know so, I won't try this recipe again.
Only kidding, please if you have ANY good bread recipes or know what I did wrong with this one let me Know and thanks in advance for any Info. LET'S BAKE PEOPLE...KNOW WHAT YOU EAT...

Lauren
02/15/2008 08:07 PM

I'm looking to buy a new stand mixer at the moment, after my own broke down. I'm Interested in either a Kenwood or Kitchenaid, and as one of the few who have actaully used both, which would you recommend? The Kenwood seems to have better specs but the Kitchenaid carries a reputation. I am also living in Australia so the range is slightly limited.

Many Thanks :)

Rose
02/14/2008 12:57 PM

good advice. but one thing more--freezing always kills some yeast so add extra if you're planning to do this.

Hector
02/14/2008 12:54 PM

Dear D, that is a technique often used for home bread baking to prevent having to stay up or wake up to the mercy of rising dough!

Right after you shape your rolls on your baking pan but before allowing to rise, refrigerate for up to 12 hours. The cold will retard the final rise. Allow your refrigerated buns to reach room temp, about 1 hours or 2, before baking; dough may continue to rise during this time.

If you freeze instead, I would remove the frozen pan the night before and leave it at room temp inside an airtight bucket. In the morning it should have thawed and risen!

The above is how I surprise my guests with fresh baked goods for breakfast.

DKinMIA
02/14/2008 09:55 AM

Quick question regarding making cinnamon buns/sticky buns.

I'm having a house full of guests and will be preparing a brunch one week from Saturday. I have a fantastic recipe for Cinnamon Buns but I don't want to get up super early to make them as some of my guests will be sleeping in the family room and I don't wish to disturb them. Can I prepare the rolls early and refrigerate or freeze them? How early can I prepare them? Do I need to make any adjustments with the recipe or baking time?

Please help!

Thanks,
D

cher
02/04/2008 06:40 PM

I baked a chocolate bread . When I cut it it would not cut it just crumbled. What did I do wrong?

Louise
02/04/2008 05:27 PM

As a follow up - Montana does not sell pumpernickel. I found Barry Flours http://www.barryfarm.com/our_store.htm by searching goggle. I placed an order and will let you know what I think (though I have never baked with pumpernickel flour before so I have no comparison). Louise

Rose
02/04/2008 04:08 PM

that's worrisome! try montana flour and grain 406-622-5436 and or google.

Louise
02/04/2008 03:58 PM

So, your suggestion is to make the sourdough pumpernickel bread per the instructions in the BB - but shape, boil and bake like the Levy's bagels? Hummm..... sounds interesting. I am definitely going to try it and let you know. My only problem is finding pumpernickel flour. I have not been able to find it in the lccal grocery store (and I live in S Florida - you would think I could find it) and it is presently unavailable (not just backordered) at King Arthur. Any suggestions on where to find it?
Louise

Rose
02/04/2008 03:44 PM

louise it's enviably stunning!

re the ww bagels, you'll need to experiement bc ww flour needs more water. i think the sourdough pumpernickel might make a great bagel without any adjustment though.

Louise
02/04/2008 03:38 PM

I made Rose's Brioche Dairy Challah from the BB and it was divine. So light, moist and a great crumb. Here are the pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23486197@N03/2242947222/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23486197@N03/2242152101/

I will have to make more dairy meals for the Sabbath so that I can make this challah.
Rose - thanks for such a wonderful bread and the idea to use it for Challah - even it is a bit unconventional in its appearance.
Louise

Louise
02/03/2008 05:53 AM

I want to make whole wheat bagels. Any suggestions on a recipe? Rose - I do not see one in your book - is there a way to adapt your recipe for Levy Bagels for whole wheat bagels and pumpernickel bagels? thanks, Louise

Louise
02/03/2008 05:48 AM

I made "everything" bagels - yumm yumm - and wanted to pass on how I made the "everything." I bought minced garlic in oil in the produce department of my grocery store. I added (dehydrated??) minced onions (from the spice department)right in the jar and let it sit overnight. When it was time to bake the bagels, I put the garlic/onion mixture in a small bowl and added sesame seeds, poppy seeds and sea salt to the mixture. It could not have been better. It was just like the everything bagels in NYC. The oil in the minced garlic was just the right amount to keep the mixture together. My only suggestion is not to put too much on the bottom as it tended to burn - in fact next time I am not going to put any on the bottom.
I am also thinking of making salt bagels with the flavored salts - like rosemary salt. Doesn't that sound good?
Louise

Rose
01/21/2008 09:44 PM

actually bialys don't have added starter bc starter has a strengthening effect in addition to relaxing the dough for shaping. in order to keep the depression in the center you need a weaker dough though matthew you're right that the flavor of the onion and poppies adds a great deal so leaving out the starter is not a big compromise!

Matthew
01/21/2008 04:23 PM

I've baked a double recipe. I left the temperature the same and it baked in almost the same amount of time--maybe 5 or 10 minutes longer--it's been a while since I did it, so I can't remember for sure.

Sherry
01/21/2008 04:06 PM

Thanks, Matthew. Just out of curiosity have you ever baked a large sourdough loaf from this recipe? If so, did you adjust the temperature?

Matthew
01/21/2008 03:52 PM

Sherry, at the latest, I would divide it before the final shaped rise (step 5), being careful when you divide the dough not to deflate it too much. I think earlier would probably be even better. I think the other dough should probably be okay--the worst thing would be that the gluten would be weaker from over rising or from more acid development--so the bread might spread out more during baking and have a denser crumb. It may not be as perfect as the others, but it will still probably taste good--and it might be just the same since it was a relatively small time difference.

Sherry
01/21/2008 03:24 PM

I'm in the process of making several loaves of sourdough bread, and have a question for future reference. I doubled all ingredients right from step 1...I failed to see your reference at the end of the recipe about using all 100 grams of four in step 2 until it was too late, so I had some starter to throw out...I made four double batches so I would have eight loaves. I refrigerated the dough overnight after step two rising. In step 3 after adding salt and kneading 4 more minutes I divided two batches of dough into single batches (4 loaves) and they are rising now. Since I ran out of containers of the right size I put the full third batch in a bigger container. I made a large loaf recently, but wasn't happy with the results since it burned a little on both top and bottom before it finished baking. Can I still divide this into two smaller loaves at the end of step 4 after the second business letter turns and rise 4 hrs.? Or can I divide it at the beginning of step 5 AFTER it has risen 4 hours? Another question is about the 4th double batch of dough...it rose longer than called for after the all night refrigeration. It was on the counter for about 3 hrs and I put it back in the fridge. Will it be okay until tomorrow? I'm hoping I don't have to throw it out. My family LOVES this bread and that's why I'm trying to do so many loaves at once...I think I got in over my head, though!

THANKS for any help you can offer!

Matthew
01/21/2008 02:10 PM

You need to add salt to compensate for the extra dough--use a stiff starter. Check the other recipes on the blog for the amount of extra salt to add to the starter. If you use a liquid starter, then you would probably need to add a bit of flour too. The purpose of adding it to the water is to moisten it slightly so that it will incorporate better into the dough. You could drop it into the sponge or just add it in pieces while kneading--it should still mix in okay I would think.

I would add 19g of gluten to the full recipe (1 tablespoon plus 2 teaspoons).

I'm guessing the bialys don't have a sponge because the onion poppy seed filling provides enough extra flavor.

Louise
01/21/2008 01:58 PM

Rose - thank you for your reply. If Harvest King is 11.7% and King Arthur Hi Gluten (Sir Lancelot) is 14% - does that mean that Harvest King needs a little Vital Wheat Gluten to use it in a high gluten recipe?

My next conquest is bialys - but reading the recipe raised a few interesting questions. Why do bagels have a sponge and bialys do not? Do you suggest adding a starter and, if so, how much, when and what adjustments are made to the recipe.

thanks -and my mah jongg group who will eat the bagels after I bake them tomorrow morning thank you also.

Louise

Louise
01/21/2008 01:50 PM

Matthew - thank you for your reply. I literally just finished kneading the bagel dough when your response came through and so far I did ok - I guessed correctly per your response.

I realized I had a few more questions.

I added a starter per Rose's and Beth's (who is my cousin in KY - I am in Fla) exchange. I did not not know if I should use a stiff starter or a liquid starter and, did I have to do anything special since I was adding a starter? Was I supposed to reduce the flour or water in the recipe? When do I add the starter? The tradional challah on the website says to tear it into the water at the beginning - but it does not have a sponge so the format is different. I guessed and will be curious if I guessed correctly. thanks to all! Louise

Rose
01/21/2008 01:50 PM

harvest king is 11.7% protein and is made from 100% winter wheat. this means the wheat is grown in the south where the winters are gentler and results in a relatively high protein with high extensibility.

Matthew
01/21/2008 01:41 PM

Louise,
High gluten flour is about 14% gluten; king arthur bread flour is 12.7%, so you could add extra gluten to 1.3% the weight of the flour called for in the recipe. I had a hard time finding the exact protein content for harvest king. On the nutrition information it say 4g protein per 30g flour, which would be 13.33%. That seems too high since this flour is slightly softer than bread flour. There was probably some rounding for the nutrition information, because even 3.5g of protein would reduce the number to 11.66%. Not knowing the exact protein content, I think you would be safe to add 1.5% gluten (for the full recipe that would be a little over a tablespoon). In the recipes notes, rose says you can go up to a 1/4 cup.

For your other questions, you only let the sponge sit as long as it takes to mix the flour blanket. The waiting period takes place after you cover the sponge with flour (I recommend doing it overnight in the fridge).

I use malt powder, and I added it to the blanket, but it is a dry ingredient and doesn't really mix in enough to affect the sponge. Since you are using the syrup, I would add it when mixing as Rose recommended earlier. It seems like it might clump with the dry flour mixture otherwise.

Louise
01/20/2008 01:39 PM

A follow up bagel question, if I use the Harvest Gold flour, should I add any vital wheat gluten? If so, how much? thanks, Louise

Louise
01/20/2008 11:36 AM

Rose:
Well today is the day - I am going to attempt the bagels! I have my King Arthur starter all ready (I gave up on making my own starter as I could never get it to start). I even found that my Whole Foods has the barley malt syrup. So, I have a few questions:
1. I cana not find high gluten flour today - should I use Harvest King or King Arthur Bread Flour?
I am confused about the sponge.
2. do I let the sponge sit at all before I add the flour blanket?
3. The BB says to add the malt in with the flour ingredients that make up the blanket. But your earlier reply to Beth said “ i would add the barley malt syru just before mixing the dough as if you put it in or on the sponge it can make it grow to quickly” I am using the barley malt syrup - when should I add it?

Thanks so much!
Louise

HOpe Santoro
01/03/2008 07:13 AM

please post directly on the blog so other ppl can answer--someone else asked this same question recently so you could try a search as well. thanks for the recipe!

On Jan 2, 2008 3:19 PM, hsantoro1 wrote:

Dear Rose:

I would like to make the basic Hearth bread in your Bread Bible book, but do not understand-- for a better flavor in the notes at end of recipe you say to allow the sponge to ferment 1 hour at room temp. and 8 to 24 hours in Fridge. Now is this mixture that is refrigerated, the sponge plus the flour mixture added to the sponge?
If so, if using the mixer with dough hook the next day when it is taken from the refrigerator, is it necessary to bring it to room temperature before continuing to knead the dough in mixer and is this when the salt is added?

Would appreciate hearing from you, as I have never worked with a sponge(or starter)before.

I make a delicious Italian flat bread from my mother-in-laws method that takes 6-7 hours from start to finish before it is baked on a cast iron sheet that has been heated for 30 minutes, using only 6 cups bread flour,
l tsp. rapid rise yeast 2 1/2 tsp. salt, 1 tsp. sugar,2 1/2 cups spring water, 1 tbs. extra virgin olive oil. Mix in food processor. Heat liquid to 75 degrees. Mix it for about 40 seconds. Take out of processor. Let it rest in ball after lightly kneading, covered for about 10 minutes, then lightly knead it and put it in a covered bowl that has been oiled and let rise for 2 1/2 hours covered with heavy blankets. Punch down put back in oiled bowl and let rise for another 90 minutes. Punch down again and separate into two equal balls and let rest for 1 hour on floured bread board covered.
At the end of that rise, shape into to 12 inch disks which I dimple down and cut a hole in middle and place on
peels covered with corn meal. Let rise another hour, then slip onto preheated cast iron in oven 400 degrees
(put ice cubes in bottom of oven in cast iron 7 inch fry pans) and bake for 20 minutes. Can also be shaped as I learned in your book into 2 batards, slashed down the middle and spritzed with water before baking.

Am only sharing this with you as the bread is the most delicious bread and can't seem to make enough of it
to give to friends and family.

Would like to make your basic hearth bread as a sandwich style in bread pans.

Will wait for your reply. I also have a freezer full of bread to have for family and friends, as I laughed when I read the same of you in your book.

Thank you,
Hope Santoro

--
Rose Levy Beranbaum - -
- - - Visit http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/ - - -

Rose
01/02/2008 09:31 PM

i use it for every bread except for the soft white bread sandwich loaf and the pain de mie bc i want them to be soft and almost cake-like.

Louise
01/02/2008 09:28 PM

Not to belabor the Harvest Gold Flour issue - but I am still confused. You said it is for bread - but is it for bread that calls for all purpose flour or bread that calls for bread flour? For example, your traditional challah in the BB calls for all purpose flour. Would you use Harvest Gold which is a bread flour? Thanks! Louise

Rose
01/02/2008 06:00 PM

it is used only for bread.

Louise
01/02/2008 05:57 PM

Do you use the Gold Medal Havest Flour Better For Bread also for cakes, cookies etc? the name is confusing - is it a bread flour or an all purpose flour that is good for bread? Louise

Rose
01/02/2008 12:50 PM

and it is indeed better for bread!

Rose
01/02/2008 12:30 PM

this is indeed the harvest king!

Louise
01/02/2008 08:07 AM

Rose - my local grocery store sells Gold Medal Havest Flour Better For Bread. Is this the flour you have been recommending? Is it a substitute for recipes that call for all purpose flour and/or bread flour? thanks! Louise

Louise
01/02/2008 08:06 AM

Rose
12/22/2007 02:56 PM

oven temp the same, amount of ice the same, baking time longer--compare it to other recipes in the book of larger size.

Anonymous
12/22/2007 02:29 PM

Hi,

I'm wondering if the oven temp. would be the same if I doubled the sourdough recipe to make a large loaf. Any suggestions on time it would take to bake? Also, do I still use 1/2 c. of ice in the bottom of the oven?

Thanks.

Beth
12/19/2007 12:05 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, Rose. One of our friends bakes bagels frequently, and I had bought him some Lancelot flour and malt powder, but I'm quite sure he doesn't have your recipe. I'll pass it on to him. It's his wife that wants the bialys (aside from me and my husband). Bialys were my favorite when I was growing up. I'm quite sure we don't have bialys in Kentucky, so if I want to experience them again, they will come from my kitchen.
Rose, you have spoiled us. I wish I could get assistance from the authors of all the cookbooks I use. I have always considered baking to be the ultimate alchemy (I started baking in my teens), and you are the ultimate chemist/magician.

Beth

Rose
12/19/2007 11:54 AM

actually adding starter causes the bread to rise a little faster but the reason i put the dough in the bag is to keep it from rising too much. if you can't pat it down during the first few hours of refrigeration try putting a weight on top. over-rising weakens the gluten which is no doubt why the crumb is more tender than you expected.
i have to confess that thanks to your questions about the bagels, i solved the mystery as to why my last batch seemed to low in salt. when i added the extra starter i halved the salt instead of doubling it! i've been spinkling the resulting bagels with salt bf buttering. what a difference salt makes to the flavor.
i ADORED the bialys --you're all in for a treat.

Beth
12/19/2007 11:48 AM

BAGEL REPORT!

Rose, I just got finished eating my first bagel. It was absolutely delicious, and I can't wait to hear my husband's response to them. Thanks so much. Also, bialys have been requested by several friends, so they are in my future as well.
That said, I think I miscalculated in one area. I was making a half batch, with 75g stiff starter added, and it was sitting in a 2.5 quart bowl overnight in the fridge (I did the sponge for about 1.5 hours late yesterday afternoon, then mixed the dough and went through the first rise). When I got up this morning the dough had risen over the top of the bowl. That's unusual for me, in that I usually have trouble getting anything to rise! Having gone back to check a different area of the book this morning, I see that maybe I should have put the dough in an oiled bag, though at this point I couldn't have checked on it much anyway, as I was soon going to bed. Any suggestions? The outsides of the bagel are wonderfully chewy and delicious; the inside is a bit more tender than I expected, and I was wondering if that was because of the starter, and because it rose too much. Of course it's so long since I've had a "real" bagel that I don't know what it should be like any more. It was delicious, however,and makes a "normal" bagel seem absolutely tasteless in comparison.
I, too, have been staying up way too late every night with the Bread Bible as my night-time reading. It's addictive.

Rose
12/18/2007 04:20 PM

yes. and i can't wait to hear how much you're going to love them!

Beth
12/18/2007 04:03 PM

Thanks, Rose. One more question. Is an "envelope" turn the same as a business-letter turn? I couldn't find it in the book or on the site.

I'll let you know how things go.

Rose
12/18/2007 09:03 AM

i would add the barley malt syru just before mixing the dough as if you put it in or on the sponge it can make it grow to quickly. yeast loves this food!
i add the starter--for 75 grams add 1/16t salt, or use as much as 150 grams and add 1/8t salt.

Beth
12/18/2007 07:24 AM

QUESTION ABOUT LEVY'S BAGELS

Hi, I just realized that my hi-gluten flour has been in the house for a few months, so it's time to take the plunge and make the bagels. I have 2 questions.
1. At this point I have King Arthur's barley malt (organic) syrup in the house. should I place that over the sponge, and then put the "flour blanket" over it, or should I mix it in with the liquid in the sponge? It doesn't seem right to mix it in with the flour for the blanket, but since I've never made it before, I don't know.

2. Would you recommend adding 75g of stiff starter in the final mixing? Thanks so much. I'm really looking forward to trying these homemade bagels, as I've been disappointed with other attempts with other recipes.

Rose
12/17/2007 08:06 AM

about 25% of the yeast dies on freezing. try increasing the yeast but i agree with matthew that it's better to bake and freeze.

Miriam
12/17/2007 07:55 AM

Thanks for the quick reply about freezing shaped bread dough. I do know that there IS a way to do this successfully - frozen challah dough is sold in stores - you are to let them come to room temp. and rise again before baking - and they come out fine (for store bought ;-) In my recipe books they also give the instructions for freezing the shaped (challah) dough after at least one rising period (which I've done) So - does anyone know what might be the problem? Again, each time I have tried it - taking shaped dough from freezer and letting it sit for about 4 hrs, then baking it) the challah comes out with tons of tiny air bubbles, chewy, and tasteless (not like the rest of the batch that was baked right away).
Thanks for anyone's thoughts on this!

Matthew
12/16/2007 10:16 PM

Miriam,
Your best bet would be to go ahead and bake it and then freeze it for later use, preferably in slices. Just a guess, but I suspect part of the problem is that it is not coming to room temperature evenly.

Miriam
12/16/2007 08:26 PM

I have been unsuccessful in my frozen challah (already shaped) dough coming out. I have tried it 4 times - all with the same problem occuring. I let the dough rise 2 times, then shape the dough and freeze it. I let it defrost a few days later for about 4 hours, then bake. Each time it comes out with tons of airholes, too chewy, and tasteless. I can tell that it hasn't worked just by looking at the bottom of the baked loaf. I also tried freezing the dough after only one rising, with EXACTLY the same results. I know the recipe is good, since I baked the rest of the batch right away, and it came out great - as long as it wasn't frozen. I know there is a way to do this successfully...please help!!

Rose
12/15/2007 09:25 AM

fresh yeast always needs to be dissolved in warm water (i'm sure the instructions are in the book but i'm not near one right now.) you need to proof it to be sure it is active, using a pinch of sugar. use some of the liquid designated for the rest of the recipe and when it is filled with bubbles add it to the dough before adding the butter and not before it sits for several hours. the beauty of the instant yeast is that you CAN add it to the flour without proofing which is why i do it the way it is done in step 2 but it doesn't need to be added until later on as you already have the right amount in the sponge to begin fermentation.
you should really do two loaves--one with instant yeast and one with fresh to see if you can tell the difference in the baked loaf!

Lauren
12/14/2007 10:29 PM

First off, thank you for creating such a fantastic bread book, it has certainly enriched the lives of many (including myself and my hungry family!).

I'm a sucker for fresh compressed yeast and wanted to know how to use it in relation to your basic white loaf recipe. In step two you sprinkle the instant yeast over the sponge, can this be done with fresh yeast? Would it be better to save a few tablespoons of the water from the sponge and use it to dissolve the fresh yeast later on?

Thank you for all your help!

Beth
12/13/2007 07:15 PM

Today I took Rose's suggestion and added 75 grams of stiff starter (whole wheat in this case) to a whole wheat loaf I make from the King Arthur Whole Grains Cookbook. I really like the difference I see. In this case it's already quite moist without the starter (the recipe has butter, milk powder, and potato flour), but I like the texture better. I've also been trying Peter Reinhart's recipes from his new whole grain cookbook (soaker + biga), but haven't yet reached perfection with that. The next one I try will use starter in place of the biga. I'm new to using starter, only started last week when my cousin Louise suggested I try the new challah recipe.

Sherry
12/13/2007 05:53 PM

Beautiful bread!!! Thanks for sharing! Are all those recipes in The Bread Bible?

I made a large loaf of sourdough last night and put the ice cubes right on the bottom of the oven like you suggested. It was scrumptious with blackberry jam!

Hector
12/12/2007 05:49 PM

Sherry, I've been thinking about you while having a slice of frozen bread, and put together these pictures I previously posted. Hope you get a good hang of how much you can play with!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/BasicSourdoughBreadALL.html

Hector
12/12/2007 01:02 PM

HI Sherry, it is desirable to have an 'ugly' cracked crust on artisan breads. I don't use a basket or a cloth with flour because I am just too lazy. I rise my bread free form on parchment paper and covered with a large upside down glass bowl. When I bake, I slide the bread with the parchment directly on the baking stone.

No, a pan of water is not the same as ice cubes melting on a hot surface. You get more steam with the ice. Try get an inexpensive small cast iron skillet for this, yes it will rust. You can also use preheated tiles, but the tiles most likely will crack due to the temperature shock, not the same tile where you place the dough, but another tile on a lower oven rack or directly on the oven floor. You can just leave these cracked tiles there all the time, after a few cracks it won't crack more. In the simplest scenario, drop the ice cubes on your oven floor or on a preheated thick baking sheet.

I place this ice cube surface on the sides of the oven, so it isn't in the way.

Larger loafs work fine.

Good luck!

Sherry
12/12/2007 11:14 AM

Thanks, Hector! Don't know why I didn't think of slicing the sourdough before freezing...especially since that is what I do with my whole wheat bread! However, I do always wrap it tightly in saran and then put in a freezer bag. And, I do let it thaw before slicing. The crust actually seems to let go of the bread and then just peel off. Do you let your bread rise in a basket before putting it on your baking sheet? I've wondered if that could be my problem because with any other recipe I've used I get a much prettier, but less tasty loaf. I put a cloth dusted with flour under the dough in the basket...otherwise when I peel off the cloth the dough falls...so when I turn the risen dough out onto the baking sheet that means the flour is now on top of the dough. So when it is baked there's browned flour on top. Does that make sense to you? Last night I skipped the basket step and just put the dough right on the baking sheet to rise as a free-form loaf. I let it rise for an hour and then put it in the fridge overnight. This morning I set it on the counter while pre-heating the oven for an hour. It looks and smells good, but I haven't tasted it yet. The crust does look a little "bubbly", though. One other thing I thought MIGHT be a problem is that I put a pan of water in the bottom of the oven while it is pre-heating for an hour. Is this too much moisture? The recipe says to pre-heat a cast iron skillet and drop ice cubes in before you put the bread in. This not only rusted my skillet, but it was hard to move the hot stone out of the way and throw ice in there without having heat escape.

Have you tried baking a larger loaf than this recipe makes? Would I just double the recipe and make one loaf out of it?

Thank you SO much for your response. I'm very glad to find a place to post questions and get answers! :-)

Hector
12/11/2007 06:43 PM

Sherry, let me cheap in, as Rose's sourdough is the bread I bake the MOST.

I do as you do, bake several loaves and freeze. When I freeze, I slice the loaf first, and freeze 'bundles' of bread slices separately, as much as you can eat comfortably in a couple of days. I seldom freeze the whole loaf. Always wrap tightly and airtight with several round of plastic wrap and or foil. I don't like to freeze with air (like on plastic containers or loose freezer bags).

To thaw, I take it to room temperature, with the wrapping still on. The condensation will occur outside the wrap. Once thawed, remove the wrap. Never unwrap when still frozen. I actually prefer to thaw overnight in the refrigerator, wraps on.

I always reheat the bread, usually on my panini press or on a bread toaster.

As said, it is as good as day one!

Moreover, when you indicate the crust falling off when slicing, are you slicing the bread still hard frozen? If I freeze a whole loafe, I always slice a thawed bread.

YES, I get caught on the midnight crunch and need to 'slow down' my baking. NO, by leaving your dough in a cool place overnight, it will still rise, so it will over rise.

It really depends how cool you mean cool.

A good reference is to use the refrigerator and you do need to just test your conditions. A dough that has been let do its first rise at room temperature, just punched down, so this is dough active and at room temperature; when placed in the fridge, it will continue to rise for about 2 hours (indicated on The Bread Bible, as the time it takes for the dough to chill fully). After the 2 hours, you can leave it in the fridge for 8 hours or actually even a day or so.

When ready to bake, I punch down the refrigerated dough, let rise at room temperature about 6 to 8 hours until doubled, and bake. This final rise may very well take longer than usual, because your dough starts from refrigerated temperature.

You can have unbaked bread in the fridge indefenitelly if on a feeding cycle, and bake as you have time! Keep expanding your dough, and take out the amount that you will bake for the dough. You will need to do some math on the amount of salt.

Sherry
12/11/2007 06:24 PM

I LOVE the recipe for sourdough bread in your cookbook....it tastes so wonderful. I have two questions. Because this is such a long, drawn-out process I feel like I need to make several loaves at once to make it worthwhile. I freeze the extra loaves and when I take them out of the freezer the crust looks awful. It turns whitish and cracks into little pieces all over and most of it just falls off when I slice the bread. The taste isn't affected, but I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong to make it do this. I only notice it on frozen bread.

The other question is what to do when it's getting late and I still have the last rising and baking to do. Can I leave it in a cool place overnight and bake the next morning? It never seems like there are enough hours in the day to do all the mixing, doubling, and rising, and still get the bread baked before 10 or 11:00 at night. Maybe I'm trying to do too many loaves at once. Please help! Thanks!

Rose
12/11/2007 08:52 AM

that's bc there's hardly any salt to eat up the moisture!

Matthew
12/08/2007 06:23 PM

One more thing--I was shocked at how big the holes are inside, considering how much lower the hydration is than the ciabatta.

Matthew
12/08/2007 06:22 PM

Thanks. I just had a slice. It is very good--certainly surpassed my expectations for low-salt, just like your description says. It is really like making a ciabatta--I don't know why I didn't make that connection beforehand.

Rose
12/05/2007 02:54 PM

more flat on top than rounded.

Matthew
12/05/2007 09:17 AM

Rose,
I'm planning to make the Tuscan bread this weekend--just stirred up the biga. I'm trying to visualize the finished bread based in the given dimensions. Should it be a thin slightly oval disk? I'm not that I've ever seen this type of bread. Will it be rounded on top or flat?

Anonymous
12/03/2007 11:07 PM

Once again, I want to thank you for your books and for your blog! I have discovered a site entitled steambreadmaker.com I am wondering if this is the sort of steamer that is recommended for bread making, since the Baker's Catalogue no longer sells the one that was suggested in your book. Thank you in advance for any input. I appreciate it! - Sincerely, Karen

Rose
11/19/2007 12:57 PM

audrey, my best basic bread recipe is right on the back of the "harvest king" flour bag!

Rose
11/18/2007 11:23 PM

thanks shuang for testing this out--it will of great help to many people.

marian, most breads can be "retarded" in the refrigerator and then removed to room temperature for one hours before proceeding to the next step. and of course you can judge which breads require the least continuous time by looking at the rising times at the top of each recipe.
don't be a slave to the bread's schedule--make it conform to yours!

Marian B.
11/18/2007 11:19 PM

I love your bread bible and have tried several of the breads - my family especially loves the focaccia and ciabatta. We are usually gone during the day - either work or play - and would love a recommendation of some of your breads that dont need interaction every few hours - as i only have time at the beginning and end of the day. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Shuang
11/18/2007 09:28 PM

For those live in southeast Asia, I have tested and proven that the local flour here, even if it's called bread flour, is not suitable for making the Rose's bread, or any other artisan bread. I held all other factors constant, made a loaf with Gold Medal unbleached all purpose flour from the US, and another loaf with the local Singapore Red Man flour (wheat probably grown and processed in Malaysia). Even though the Red Man flour says that its protein content is 13%, which sounds very high, the bread comes out not risen fully, the crust pale, the inside gummy. The US flour produced a much better risen loaf with rich dark golden shiny crust and great texture inside. So just have to bite the bullet and pay more for the right raw materials.

Rose
11/14/2007 10:26 PM

i'm delighted to be a part of it--i've been saving that pun for many years now.

marie wolf
11/14/2007 09:54 PM

"Fetacomplis" is now in Chapter 23--my main character is musing about her father's jokes and remembers this as one of his favorites. She didn't get it until she started taking French lessons when she was 16, and then she realized that he'd taught her her first multi-lingual pun.
Thanks for the addition to the plot!

Rose
11/13/2007 05:59 PM

i'll take responsibility for it!

marie wolf
11/13/2007 05:37 PM

Groan! (If I end up using that, I'll give you credit!)

Rose
11/13/2007 12:35 PM

marie, you could put feta cheese on the olive bread and call it "fetacomplis"!!!!

Rose
11/11/2007 07:46 PM

every time i get this comment i go to the frig, weigh out the dry milk and get the same result: 1 T=10 grams, 1/4 cup=40 grams. so it must be that i'm using the king arthur dry milk. if you use another variety, go by weight.

marie wolf
11/11/2007 03:12 PM

Tanya,
I was thinking that your scale might need adjustment, so I weighed out 1/4 cup of instant non-fat dry milk on my own scale--I also got .75 ounces. All I can say is that I have always weighed the ingredients for the breads in The Bread Bible, and have never had a problem, so I would also say measure by weight.

Hector
11/11/2007 02:27 PM

Tanya, I would measure by weight.

Tanya Metaksa
11/11/2007 01:27 PM

I just purchased your Bread Bible and was trying to make the Sandwich Bread. Your recipe calls for 1/4 cup of non-fat dry milk and the equivalent weight is 1.5 ounces. However, the dry milk that I have does not correspond to the same weight: for 1/4 cup the weight I get is .75 ounces. What do I go by the measure or the weight. Thanks for your help.

Tanya Metaksa

AUDREY ARNOLD
11/10/2007 06:34 PM

ABOUT FORTY YEARS AGO, I USED TO MAKE HOME MADE BREAD FROM START TO END. MY KIDS ALWAYS HAD IT BEFORE THEY WENT TO BED WITH HOT CHOCOLATE. I ALWAYS BOUGHT FLOUR IN BIG BAGS AT THE IGA STORE. I CNT REMEMBER THE NAME OR IF THEY EVEN MAKE IT NOW. BUT MY KIDS ARE GROWN UP NOW AND WANT ME TO TEACH THEM HOW TO MAKE IT ALL I WANT IS A RECIPE FOR PLAIN WHITE BREAD, THAT HAD TO RISE A COUPLE OF TIMES AND BE KNEADED, CAN YOU HELP ME PLEASE THANK YOU AUDREY

marie wolf
11/10/2007 12:07 PM

Thanks!
Olive bread is perfect--and it has the side benefit of giving me an excuse to make it again. It's Jim's absolute favorite!

Rose
11/10/2007 11:53 AM

although that's not quite as subtle a dig as stolen--i mean stollen!

Rose
11/10/2007 11:52 AM

what fun! absolutely olive bread!

marie wolf
11/10/2007 10:53 AM

Hi Rose,
I'm writing a mystery novel for National Novel Writing Month (nanowrimo.org), and my two main characters are both lawyers and amateur bread bakers. One is of Greek heritage, the other is German. They dislike each other through the book, but I want them to appreciate each other by the end, and I plan to have each of them bake the other one a loaf of bread of the other person's culture. I was thinking the Greek lawyer could bake a loaf of stollen, but am unsure what kind of (Greek) bread the German woman could bake for the Greek woman. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Marie

Patrincia
11/09/2007 08:17 PM

Liz - I can direct you to an excellent oatmeal roll recipe.

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Oatmeal-Dinner-Rolls/Detail.aspx

Liz
11/09/2007 08:12 PM

Do you know of any very tasty bread recipes that use breakfast cereal, ie All Bran, Cheerios, Raisin Bran, Corn Flakes, etc.? I am trying to find ways to feed my 14-month old cereal, when he won't eat cereal but will eat bread. Quick bread or yeast is fine, but I use a bread machine because that's all I have time for. Thanks very much!

Rose
10/31/2007 04:52 PM

stunning cake navaz! please do send more photos of the finished wedding cake!

Hector
10/31/2007 01:16 AM

OMG, and I was discarding all that when making Golden Genoise!

Matthew
10/31/2007 12:47 AM

I finally saved up enough gappe (browned milk solids from clarifying butter) to make the fougasse in the bread bible. For anyone interested, it took 10 sticks of butter (2.5 pounds) to reach the 50g for the recipe (but 9 almost made it). It has such a wonderful fragrance when it is dissolved in the warm water.

Navaz
10/27/2007 02:51 AM

Hi Rose!
just wanted to show you my first tiered cake! I've been making cakes for years with your recipes from The Cake Bible, and I made this one for a 3-person birthday party. The top tier was a 3 layer rum soaked chocolate genoise with tiramisu cream in between, the middle tier was 3 layers of all american chocolate butter cake with strawberries and whipped cream in between, and the bottom tier was 2 layers of chocolate domingo cake with german chocolate coconut-pecan filling. All the cake layers were made with recipes from the Cake Bible and the outer frosting was Rose's chocolate ganache. The letters were hardened gumpaste painted w gelpaste and dusted w gold luster dust. Because of this cake, I got asked to do a wedding cake in a few month's time that I'll actually get paid for, and I just finished giving the samples to the bride today. I wanted to put in a link to the pictures of the birthday cake and some other ones I did, since I owe it all to Rose. I'll be sure to send you pictures of the finished wedding cake!
Cake Pics

Nancy
10/02/2007 06:28 PM

I have been playing with that one lately- I use Bob's Red Mill 5 grain cereal (redily available here), then add lots of toasted walnuts, pumpkin and sunflower seeds. I christened it California loaf because of all the nuts!

Rose
10/02/2007 05:17 PM

it's the 10 grain tyrolean bread in the bread bible but note a slight change which i also posted today in the errata section that the dough will not be very wet in stage 4, it will be on the dry side.

Colleen
10/02/2007 05:13 PM

I am a huge fan and I have all of your cookbooks. I'm an obsessive baker, mostly of bread. I saw you on Master Class at Johnson & Wales last weekend on PBS when you made a 7-grain bread that looked amazing. I searched The Bread Bible and could not find the recipe. I was wondering if you could post it, please?

--Colleen

Hector
10/01/2007 02:03 PM

How about placing the proof box on top of your refrigerator, radiator, heat vents, under a lamp, next to your dog, under your car's windshield or near other source of warmth? Greenhouse effect that is, without having to add/maintain water/moisture in?

I do the same but on the reverse, to slow the rise when I plan to sleep thru my night! I place the proof box outdoors where it is cooler at night.

Rose
10/01/2007 01:05 PM

p.s. i only add the hot water when it's cold in the room or if the dough for some reason is rising very slowly and i don't have the patience to wait!

Rose
10/01/2007 01:04 PM

i use about 1 cup of water from the instant hot tap which is below boiling and change it every 30 minutes. this keep it at about 80F which is perfect.

yes--adding a lot of moisture and too much heat would conspire to make the bread softer.

Hector
10/01/2007 01:23 AM

Matthew, Shuang, THAT is something I would never experience (69-71o)!

I don't think the bread is ruined when rising too warm vs cold rise, it is more a factor of flavor development. Cold rise normally develops more flavor.

The issue with warm rises is that your bread can over rise too quick to notice, but if you pay good attention or sit/watch it all day long, then you can determine when it is done rising and don't over rise it.

Matthew, for artisan free form breads, risen in a proof box with hot water, the humidity is a lot higher, so I think this makes your ball spread sideways!

Hundreds of factors affect bread, and I always remember this part from TBB when Rose complains how unpredictable is to bake the same bread or how difficult it is to bake the same exact each time. Unless you are in a controlled commercial environment, home breads vary with fun. Just yesterday, I dropped a very wet and structurally weak batch of Basic Sourdough Bread on a hot rectangular 'jelly roll' pan pizza stone, it turned almost into literally flat bread that needed only olive oil and rosemary to make it into focaccia.

Matthew
09/30/2007 10:19 PM

That's a good question. It has been hovering around 69-71 now that it is cooler. That is part of the reason I started using the box, but perhaps the box is getting too warm.

Shuang
09/30/2007 09:58 PM

Matthew, may I ask you why you started putting hot water next to your dough? What is the temperature in your house? I have read from several places that temperatures too high is not good for the fermentation process, contrary to my earlier belief. Actually some expects recommend "cold rise", leaving the dough in the fridge for a day to ferment. So how about if you try leaving out the hot water from your proofing box?

Matthew
09/30/2007 08:21 PM

I recently started using a proofing box with a cup of hot water on the side. I find that the dough is spreading out too much and not holding its shaped height well during proofing. My shaping technique hasn't changed and it has worked well before with these recipes. Is this something I should expect using a proofing box or do you think something else is amiss?

Rose
09/25/2007 06:49 PM

if i remember correctly, the ones i've had use almond paste in the center instead of the dough ball. best to google and see what other's suggest as variations. should be easy to adapt.

Sarah
09/24/2007 01:07 PM

My husband has made your wonderful wheaten croissants a couple of times and they are truly spectacular. We are keen to adapt your recipe to make croissants aux amandes. Do you have any suggestions on how we might do that? Thanks!

Rose
09/23/2007 04:52 PM

also, always add some oil to the dough so the crust is softer--judge from the amount recommended in the burger buns which actually were in the wa. post not the ny times. but the link is on this blog.
i like about 4 ounce of dough per bun--they turn out about 4 inches in diameter.

Hector
09/23/2007 04:21 PM

Nancy, that is such a great job you are doing, converting your town into a bread connoisseur group. Do a search on this blog, Rose has an excellent hamburger bun recipe that actually printed in the New York Times (I think, or other).

Besides that, I would also try making a very wet Basic Sourdough Bread (by using a lower protein flour, or by baking the bread in a loaf pan instead ofdirectly on a stone). The moist bread will slice beautifully, still have a great artisan crust, and when toasted or grilled for burgers or paninis, the moisture turns into crisp bread with such wonderful chewy not-teeth-clinging crumb.

Nancy Sullivan
09/23/2007 12:16 PM

Rose, I have been baking your breads for folks in my small town for several years now, and now several want me to make hamburger and sandwich buns from the loaf doughs. Any advice on converting the recipes (especially the artisan types like Olive and Sourdough Rye)? What weights should I use? I think the cheddar loaf would make great hot dog buns for a really good spicy sausage...

Rose
09/22/2007 01:22 PM

probably fermeneted too long so that the yeast ate all the sugar not leaving any for browning. you could try adding a little honey to the dough or sugar. or bake it uncovered at the end to deepen the color.

Shuang
09/21/2007 10:51 AM

I have a problem with the finished product. My bread doesn't have the nice rich golden color. It looks pale and light yellow. Why? I read somewhere that the fermenting process produces sugar that caramalizes the dough causing it to turn rich golden when baking. What is wrong with my dough? I thought I ferment it enough time when I use the no-knead bread recipe and let it sit for 18 hours. Is it my flour? We have very limited choices of flour here in Singapore. The plain flour says it has 13% of protein, which is enough for making bread, while the bread flour does not give any breakdown of different elements. Do you think they could've done something to damage the natural goodness of the flour in the mill by not processing it right?

Hector
09/20/2007 02:23 AM

Shuang, 80 is not that terrible and actually a nice temperature to make initial rises.

You can try:

1- Place your bread rising container directly on your floor, which is the coolest part of the house.

2- Rise in the refrigerator. After you knead, place your dough in the refrigerator overnight or up to 36 hours. Dough will rise for about 2 hours until it reaches cold. My panettone sat at room temperature only for a couple hours, then in the fridge for 2 days.

3- Another way is to place ice cubes in a cooler and put your dough there. If your nights drop to 70s, then proof outdoors!

Shuang
09/20/2007 01:46 AM

I have read in several places that says it's best to let the dough rise in a cool environment for long hours, to get the best flavor. I live in hot Singapore when evening temperature all year round is no less than 80F degrees. Does anyone have any suggestions how I can achieve the slow rising in cool environment effect here?

Silvia
09/19/2007 06:23 PM

I´d die very happily in one of your Golden Cages, what a sweet death!

Hector
09/19/2007 02:35 PM

Silvia, if I bake outdoors, I will be in 'that' great company, too! Glad my home kitchen is surrounded with insect screens.

Once, I served a beautiful Golden Cage outdoors... it worked better than any of those fly glue strips!

Silvia
09/19/2007 01:34 PM

Thanks, Rose.

Rose
09/19/2007 01:02 PM

yes--temperature is lower at higher altitude.

Silvia
09/19/2007 12:43 PM

Rose, I have a question. I always measure the temperature of my bread, with my cheap, hard to read, analogic instant thermometer. The temperature is always some degrees lower than the ones stated in the BB.As it could be a problem of the thermometer, I plan to buy a new one soon, but...
Could it be an effect of the higher altitude?
PS: I imagine, no one of you will ever eat anything made in my kitchen, after reading my last post!

Silvia
09/19/2007 12:01 PM

Hector, we have more than cockroaches! In my kitchen I coexist with all sorts and sizes of ants, a myriad different species of flies, bees, wasps, moths, beetles... Some beautiful green lizards (and not so beautifulm imported geckos)visit me now and then and many times I've had to shoo away from my food some hungry birds or curious hummingbirds. A family of squirrels damaged the beams in my roof, and years ago, I was honoured by the visit of a small (harmeless) snake, that my cat caught happily...But I have only had one little mouse! And please, dont think I live in the country, no...´
Perhaps I notice all the little creatures in my kitchen, because I like to watch them...There´s only concrete around my house.
Jeannette, I guess all our rules are "normal" to us!!!

Jeannette
09/19/2007 03:19 AM

How interesting it is to read about weather and humidity conditions in different parts of the world. When something drastic happens, such as a typhoon or earthquake we hear about it on the world news but we don't tend to think about conditions which are ongoing day to day events in people's kitchens!! Here in the UK we are, I suppose, very lucky in that we only have to use "normal" rules of food safety such as refridgeration and covering foods to protect from flies.

Anonymous
09/18/2007 08:17 PM

I used to live in Denver, which is a very very dry place. If you don't keep your bread airtight overnight, the next morning you will have crackers. :( A bit of exaggeration, but almost true. Now I live in Singapore, and it is very very hot and humid! Everything gets soggy and moldy. I have to keep all my health supplements in the fridge. Sometimes I leave a multivitamin pill out for my husband at night and he forgets to take it, the next morning, the pill has black spots all around it. If the kids leave any morsels of food on the table, pretty soon there will be armies of tiny ants all over the place. But I press on with my bread making efforts because the store bought alternatives are simply not acceptable in every respect, except for price. So I appreciate Silvia's suggestion of freezing the bread and reheating it. Will try that next time.

Hector
09/18/2007 08:16 PM

Silvia, it is a little hard to tell in Hawaii by the weather report. About 60 to 70%. We have constant trade winds and the ambient temperature is in the low 80s during the day and mid 70s during the night. If it rains, and it is hot, then we are 'humid sticky' but otherwise it isn't sticky at all in Hawaii.

And us too, I never leave anything at room temperature, not even oranges! Every now and then, some fresh green fruit, like bananas, papayas, (passion fruit now), are left at room temperature, but when near ripe, you stick them in the fridge!

I can leave cookies and dry cereal and grains at room temperature, but that must be airtight, specially for cookies and cereal otherwise they turn stale (not crisp anymore) in a matter of hours.

Loved how you describe pura vida as biodiversity. There are roaches in Hawaii, and no matter how much I describe this, every newcomer is always totally blown away to see roaches everywhere. Try taking a night stroll at the park or at the beach pass 7 pm, and you will know.

Yes, I keep my bread in the freezer. I love making bread with sourdough because that stays refrigerated very well for weeks, and most definitely you need to reheat them. I use the broiler or a panini press. I really don't like to turn the bread into traditional toasted toasts!

Silvia
09/18/2007 07:05 PM

How humid are Hawaii and Singapore?

Here in CR, homemade bread, especially if ot doesn't have fat and eggs, doesn´t keep its quality for much time after baking. Perhaps it's the humidity, but if left at room temperature, unwrapped, first the crust softens and then the whole bread hardens or gets rubbery. Anyway, I wouldn't let any food unwrapped in the kitchen, as there are so many bugs round here (even in the cleanest house!!).That´s what scientists call " a great biodiversity"!!! (I don´t cherish that diversity in my kitchen).
Sometimes it helps to keep it in the fridge, (or frozen) in a plastic bag. it won't be the same, but after a few minutes in the oven it will taste delicious again. My mother keeps it ina a paper bag, but that won´t keep the bread from staling quickly (and paper bags are not immune to some bugs).

I imagine commercial bakers need to use a lot of preservatives in their breads.

Silvia
09/18/2007 06:44 PM

These words, coming from you, Rose, are the best compliment possible!
Even if my bread is far from perfect, i found it beautiful and especially, tasty. It's difficult for me to believe that I´m baking *real* bread.
Thanks, Rose and hector and everybody here!

Rose
09/17/2007 07:20 PM

thank you hector and silvia--it is perfection!

Hector
09/17/2007 06:58 PM

Gorgeous bread and picture from Silvia. Pan de Canela

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/bloggers/SilviaPanDeCanela.htm

Hector
09/10/2007 12:50 PM

Shuang, I've been thinking about this common "problem" and reading Patrincia & Matthew's replies, it is something I’ve learned to accept and love. Yes, you do need to store airtight and commercial bread lasts longer.

In general, breads with higher amounts of fat and/or dairy will stay ‘first day fresh’ longer than breads w/o fats. I share you my experiences with panettone, with focaccia, and with basic white loaf, these stay ‘first day fresh’ for several days.

Breads without fat/dairy, like basic sourdough bread, will stay ‘first day fresh’ only for hours! After that, pop them back in the oven or toast them, and they will ‘revive.’ One beauty of baking with sourdough (real sourdough) is that it contains natural acids that function as preservatives and moisturizers! I have stored sourdough bread at room temperature for about 5 days, in the refrigerator for about 1 month, and in the freezer for about ½ year, when I reheat these (usually on my panini press), they become wonderful if not better than fresh!

If you read the label on commercial breads, especially white sandwich loaf, they contain so many things to extend shelf life. Some give an off taste, some are not very healthy. For example high fructose corn syrup which will keep your bread moist for months! You will find preservatives, too.

Keep up the good spirit of baking home breads, it is such large world. There are so many types of bread, soon you will find your favorite ones and no longer buy or think of store bought commercial breads! If The Bread Bible list of breads isn’t sufficient, I am sure Rose has already enough new recipes to write Bread Bible #2 (I think this book is called Rose’s Heavenly Breads).

Matthew
09/10/2007 12:28 PM

Shuang,
Homemade bread will always taste best the first day. Rose does recommend slicing and freezing, as Patrincia said. I've never experience, however, a strong change in flavor over a day. Perhaps you could offer a bit more detail--what breads are you making and how, specifically, is the taste changing? Homemade bread has a relatively short shelf-life compared to commercial, but most should be fine on the second and third days--and then it is usually the texture that changes, not so much the flavor.

Patrincia
09/10/2007 09:23 AM

Hmmmm, I guess I'm not an experienced enough bread baker to answer. How about slicing leftovers and freezing them... have you tried that? Sliced thaws pretty quickly. You just have to be sure to wrap it well before you freeze it.

Shuang
09/10/2007 09:01 AM

I used a plastic bread container which I believe, is quite air-tight. When I was using my bread machine to make bread using the recipes given by the manufacturers, the bread didn't taste as good as Rose's when fresh, but they don't lose flavor much when kept in the same container. Any idea why?

Patrincia
09/10/2007 08:06 AM

Well, bread can absorb odors/flavors from the air, which can affect the way it tastes. How are you storing your bread?

Anonymous
09/10/2007 04:29 AM

As a beginner, I have now successfully made a few loaves of Rose's bread. The bread tastes great when they are first made but after a day, the taste totally changes. I wonder why! I live in Singapore and so many factors, including flour,water and room temperature, might play a role in this. But does anyone have any idea? Does anyone have the same problem?

Matthew
09/08/2007 01:45 PM

Thanks Rose--you hit the nail on the head. I used more flour for batch 4 and they finally opened up!

Rose
09/08/2007 10:48 AM

as this is a humid time of year the dough is probably more moist and is sticking. try using a bit more flour in the final shaping.

Matthew
09/08/2007 08:46 AM

No, I don't think that the window ever fogs over. Is your idea that I should use more steam to keep the dough moist so that it will expand more? I thought of that too, and maybe I will try it--the tops are covered in dry flour, however, so I'm not sure how much it will really help. I decided to try increasing the hydration of the recipe today to see if that changes anything.

Hector
09/08/2007 04:48 AM

Matthew, just a wild guess, are your ice cubes sizzling during the first 5 or 10 minutes to a point where your oven glass windows is fogged?

Matthew
09/07/2007 10:32 PM

I'm hoping someone who has made the sacaduros from the BB can offer me some advice.

I've made them every night for the last three days. My problem is I can't get them to open up when they bake. They taste wonderful, and I don't mind continuing to experiment since the problem is only aesthetic.

Round 1: After I baked them, I did a search here and read the advice offered. I think that I folded them too tightly on this try.

Round 2: This time I sealed them less firmly and allowed them to rise a bit as suggested. They did look exactly like the pictures, but I only had 1 or 2 "petals" pop up here or there.

Round 3: I formed them the same way (3 rounds of folding, 6 folds each), but this time I baked them as soon as I formed them. I had the best results with a few more opened "petals," but still not like the final picture in the book.

From round 3, I gathered that an under-proofed dough is better since it offers more oven spring to open up the rolls. After that, I am at a loss as to what else I should try. Perhaps there is something apart from oven spring that helps to open the rolls that I am not thinking of. I appreciate any advice or suggestions!

Matthew
09/06/2007 11:06 AM

Rose,
I have a few questions about the Beaujolais Sunflower Bread variation on page 397.

I have been using a commercial 10-grain mix. You say to toast the mix with the sunflower seeds, but toasting is not part of the main recipe. Would you also recommend toasting the grain mix for the regular recipe, or is this in reference to the homemade mix instructions?

Secondly, the grains in the commercial mix are chopped to about the size of coarse sand. Do you use the sunflower seeds whole, or do you chop them? Do you also chop the homemade mixture?

Hector
09/04/2007 04:38 PM

Silvia, regarding making a braid with any bread dough, I would think you could. To make a braid "dough needs to be stiff enough to hold its own shape."

Try read the Challah recipe and look at the percents. It has a lower water %.

What I did is reduce the Basic Sourdough Bread to 50% less water. At this point, the dough held by itself when I made the torpedo rolls. One time, recently, I added more than 50% water, and the braid just spread flat, this is when I placed the dough on that yellow rectangular baker that you all liked.

Let me tell you one thing after eating the latest braids I made. They were heavy, a little dry, rock hard to cut after the 2nd day. I used this for grilled paninis and bruscheta so it worked ok, was edible (and delicious) after grilling them. I made sure I had someone I trusted slice all this hard bread, assemble the paninis and take them to the grill. I didn't want my guests to handle the bread cutting on their own, they would have said "old bread."

I suspect that these braid were so heavy because it had 25% whole wheat.

Happy braiding.

Hector
08/08/2007 09:25 PM

Shuang, the purpose of setting your bread on a well pre-heated cast iron pan or on a pizza stone is to gain oven spring. What happens with bread dough once it touches a very hot surface, is that the part of the dough that is touching the hot surface will cook within 5 minutes thus not expanding or spreading any more, so now the bread has a chance to only expand upwards. This upwards expansion is called oven spring (like the dough jumping up like a spring or coil).

Brick and cast iron retains heat well and work well for oven spring. The advantage of brick is that it also absorbs moisture. Pizza stone is brick. Unglazed quarry tiles is the same brick.

Be aware, that you also need steam during these 5 minutes, otherwise the surface of the dough will also cook this fast and not expand. The steam also creates a nice 'wet crust' that later turns into a 'crispy crust,' this wet crust effect is called gelatinization (like gelatin looking).

I gave up on pizza stones because they crack so easily, specially during thermal shock. The unglazed quarry tiles crack too, but they are much less costly.

I would recommend using cast iron if you have a dutch oven with a lid. Do a search on this blog regarding the properties of this method.

Happy bread baking

Shuang
08/08/2007 08:51 PM

Thank you for your reply about the pizza stone and cast iron pan. I was thinking to use the pizza stone to set the bread on to bake, in lieu of the cast iron pan that the recipes here call for. Would that work?

You would be surprised how little they have here in Singapore. It's a city state, with basically no manufacturing. Everything is imported so there is no plants for ceramic or oven producing. I had been using a metal cookie sheet with an aluminum foil on it to bake my bread. What problems does it cause to the quality of my bread? Could you please enlighten me of the advantages of using unglazed quarry tile? There must be a good reason since many specialty baking site say to use that. Thank you very much!

Silvia
08/08/2007 03:39 PM

I take no offence in admitting that shaping the bread is difficult for me, and I'm also a perfectionist!

Yes, you're right, people have been admiring my bread, because it´s so different to common sandwich bread, both in outlook, aroma (this has been a true shock to many people, that sandwich bread can actually smell deliciously), shape and texture.

It´s like comparing a cozy hand knit sweater to a plain commercial one

Hector
08/08/2007 03:17 PM

By commenting on the way the loaf was shaped, I don’t want to imply that your shaping skills are poor! Indeed, I think you did a wonderful job. People look for true hand and home made things with all its bumps. My breads that cause more attention are the ones that have such irregular top crust, and they are perhaps more interesting and delicious to eat!

Yes, perhaps the high altitude factor.

Silvia
08/08/2007 02:34 PM

I've been wondering if i should use a bit less yeast, as at a higher altitude, I'm supposed to do that.
I'll try the wholewheat version, too. And this weekened I'll try the basic hearth bread. Ina a couple weeks i expect to try the sourdough bread, that's exciting!
I know my shaping skills are very poor, but that's a matter of practice.
Thanks for everything

Hector
08/08/2007 01:58 PM

Hi Silvia, I’ve just read your concerns posted on the blog a bit upper on this topic.

First of all, I DON'T SEE ANY THING BAD with your bread.

The issue of irregular rise with 'top crust had bumps,' I think it is because the loaf was not folded/shaped properly when for the final rise (when you placed the dough on the loaf pan), it was mentioned by Rose. You will get better with practice. It seems that the bread rose according to the business turns folds that were done. Another possibility is irregular oven temperature or air flow. But I wouldn’t worry more on this subject, the beauty of home made bread is these hand made traits. It is an artisan craft, not a machine production. I actually thrive for a very irregular top crust on all my breads!

I don't think you over proofed your dough, because the top crust is not dimpled, and because the bread texture just looks fantastic (I don't see any smashed or weakened areas). There could be a possibility that the yeast you used is a little stronger and/or the flour you used had stronger protein. Regarding yeast, the power goes away with time and with brands and methods of production, and in general, it would be impossible to make a bread that will look identical to someone elses. In fact, Rose starts TBB saying that often each time she bakes the same bread it comes out slightly different! But again, this is all good!

I made this bread once, and it came out as fantastic as yours. Try the whole wheat version (which has only a small % of whole wheat flour). Also, try using sourdough starter!

Silvia
08/08/2007 01:48 PM

hector, thanks, you're so kind and willing to help!!!

Hector
08/08/2007 01:44 PM

Here are the pictures from Silvia's first sandwich bread. The bread looks fantastic to me! http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/bloggers/SilviaRLBSandwichBread1.htm

Hector
08/07/2007 11:39 PM

Shuang, is the cast iron pan referring as a place to drop the ice cubes or as a place to set your baking sheet with the bread on? If it the place to drop the ice cubes then DO NOT use the pizza stone, it will crack from temperature shock.

A pizza stone in the USA is a simple round disc made of clay, it isn't something made of any 'special material.' I am sure in your country you could find clay tiles or ceramic tiles that are unglazed (non painted) or that are made from a food safe source (made from the same material as cooking clay pots or clay plates). I use what we call unglazed quarry tiles. Try find a place that builds brick ovens or ceramic dishes and see if they can sell you a few 'think bricks or tiles.

Again, if the cast iron pan is referring to the place to drop the ice cubes, if you don't have it, use a thick baking sheet instead. Never a stone.

Hope this helps.

Shuang
08/07/2007 10:26 PM

Another question:
I don't have the cast iron pan that many of the recipes call for on this site. I looked around for a pizza stone, but the only kind available here is $400 each! Don't know what it is made of. But I managed to get someone to bring one from the states, and it will arrive in a few days! Can I use pizza stone instead of the cast iron pan? If so, what do I need to do to modify? Thanks a bunch!

Hector
08/07/2007 02:53 PM

Shuang, I think you can! Bread making is a multi-millenium old practice as old as human kind, from what you write I think you have all the basic ingredients and equipment.

Sea salt is salt extracted from the ocean. Most salts are. Most of the coarse salt is also sea salt, so go for it!

Shuang
08/07/2007 03:04 AM

Hello Rose,

I am, for the time being, living in Singapore. We cannot stand the plastic-like bread they have here, so I started making my own. I have an old Zojirushi bread machine and used it many times. After I got bored with that, I realized making bread from scratch is really fun. I have my own sourdough starter, and have made many loaves of plain sourdough bread. I am very happy that I stumbled upon this site! My question is, with the limited bread making supplies (flour, yeast, baking equipment) and the year-round hot weather, am I still able to make the fancy bread you have on this site? For one, I don't know what is sea salt. How is that different from the regular salt for cooking? They do have coarse salt here, and can I use that instead? Thanks a lot.

Shuang
08/07/2007 03:03 AM

Hello all,

Silvia
08/06/2007 05:55 PM

Soon, I hope, I will also be baking sourdough bread, Hector. I wasn´t thinking about it yet, but your photographs make me enthusiastic!

Hector
08/06/2007 01:22 AM

This is a Basic Sourdough Bread with 50% less water on the last flour addition. It is about 2.5x recipe: I did not discard any starter after the first feeding, adding proportional amounts of water and flour, so the recipe amount kept increasing. The final rise was only 50%, this is for sure a much denser bread. Braided as a 4 strand challah, and sprinkled with Italian herbs.

Having a few sandwiches for dinner, in my opinion it has the texture and density of a plain white loaf sandwich bread but with a whole lot taste and crust! Read The Bread Bible notes on % of flour, moisture, yeast, etc, and you 'could' shape your bread to anything you wish! This is a sugar free, commercial yeast free, dairy free, and -except for the light brush of extra virgin olive oil on the surface- a fat free bread! Enjoy, and wish you could smell the bread thru your computer screan.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/BasicSourdoughBread50percentlesswateronlastflouraddition.html

Rose
08/05/2007 09:21 AM

silvia, you have a beautiful attitude. thank you for your note.

Rose
08/05/2007 09:18 AM

tyler--big muffin pans are referred to often as texas muffin pans. try googling or fante's in philadephia.

Rose
08/03/2007 03:42 PM

yes--dough is full of air and bubbles. dimple it so no large air pockets in finished bread.

Silvia
08/03/2007 03:28 PM

Hector, it´s lovely to have so much to learn, isn´t it???

Silvia
08/03/2007 03:26 PM

Rose, I used the "strong flour", trying to make up for the weakend gluten in the bleached AP flour (that was my theory). Now that i think of it, perhaps I overknead a bit...it´s difficult the exact point (yes, I know, practice!), as the bowl of the mixer got stuck!!!
Question: when the dough is going to be shaped, should it look uneven, bubbly?
Thanks for your help!

Hector
08/03/2007 02:40 PM

Silvia, thanks for reporting. Your concerns are 'advance level' and I am glad Rose has an explanation. I will keep this noted (re: excessive mixing and over rising tearing the gluten structure).

Rose
08/03/2007 11:58 AM

sounds like this was the case from your results. but bottom line if the taste was good and the internal structure pleasing i wouldn't worry too much! just try different flour next time and see what happens.

Silvia
08/03/2007 11:53 AM

Rose, the texture of this bread is surprisingly soft, and light, in spite of the "strong flour". I kneaded the batter until shiny, elastic and sticky, as stated...or so I think.
You mean, the second rise was too long, and the final rise too short?
Thanks for your help!

PS: the loaf measures 6 inches high

Rose
08/03/2007 11:12 AM

for starters, i prefer a lower protein flour for a softer texture. the ragged skin would be caused either by too much mixing or over rising which tears the gluten structure. if it ballooned in the oven this means the shaped final rise was not adequate.

Silvia
08/03/2007 10:31 AM

Yesterday was a holiday, so i decided to try Rose´s Sandwcih Bread. Everything went fine, I used a rest of "strong flour" mixed with all purpose,amd followed closely the instructions. The only problem was, when i got to the point of shaping...I couldn´t get the "skin to get tight", it looked ragged and irregular, not the neat little "package" the illustrations show. Perhaps I had let the dough rise too much? Once in the oven, the dough just ballooned!!!It rose and rose and rose...but it also developed some strange "tumours" and also split. I wish i could show you the photographs, i'd like to know what happened. Anyway, even if not precisely beautiful, the bread tastes great and it has made me very happy.

Hector
08/01/2007 07:52 PM

Silvia, exactly! To make bread just toss flour with water and a few more things, and bake!

Regarding not wasting anything, it is such good practice for all aspects (even results, accuracy, economy, respect to nature and society, and perhaps even a source of a new food invention!). When my breads comes out too wet or spongy with lack of strength, it makes the most wonderful grilled paninis! When my bread comes out dry or burned, it makes the most wonderful bread crumbs! And so on. Not sure if you knew this, I started my blog days here when Rose shared a picture of the panettone I made last Xmas. I made so many panettones and still think I haven't reached perfection, but each time I made one, I loved the experimentation (flour types, kneading style, etc). I made 40 panettones total, in batches 6 at a time, that it burned my mixer (no joke).

I apologize about big cake pictures, by the time you see them you may be dissapointed from so much expectation. Anyhow, remind me after you see the big cake pictures, that indeed I had zero waste. There were 2 recycled items (baking/pastry goods) that were used at the party that would otherwise go to food waste. You can probably guess one of these items from the pictures, but the second item I will need to tell you. And just today, I have found a 3rd item, and that I will post a picture maybe tomorrow morning after I have it for breakfast.

BAKE YOUR LIFE AWAY!

Silvia
08/01/2007 07:39 PM

"Bake your life away. /H"
Love that, hector, I'll adopt is as my motto!
yeah, I have been thinking (philosophyzing?) about all this. I love to learn the scientific part of baking, but after all, my grandma baked great bread for years, duringthe terrible ingredient shortages of WWII (she had a small bakery)(and without Rose or harold mac gee!)
And the waste should be minimal, now that i think it, as my coworkers don´t know the meaning of "unendible"!!!

Hector
08/01/2007 07:29 PM

Silvia, I would just bake and bake and bake and bake! I make basic sourdough bread weekly, sometimes I use bread flour, sometimes I use AP, sometimes bleached, and sometimes not. The results vary, but the bread comes out always edible. I have tried to strenghten the bleached flour with 100% whole wheat flour, and it helps, but I don't really like the whole wheat taste on my basic sourdough bread. Sometimes I add gluten, too. Kneading by hand develops the gluten (strengthen), too.

Rose's introduction on TBB, she says that she could not be considered a bread baker because each time she made the same bread it would come slightly differently! But some well known bread baker told her "that is the beauty of bread baking." I agree, that the beauty of bread baking at home is that you let nature do its thing. If you want to have the same bread all the time, you need to be in a commercial environment, with controlled temperature, moisture, and the use of chemicals to buffer variables!

Just remember, that before all these great science and great cookbooks, people will make bread by eye! Toss flour with enough water to form a ball, let rise, and bake!

Regarding long rises, it is more of a matter of how active is your starter (or yeast) and the temperature of your room. Even if you always use the same "good" flour, the rising times changes!

Bake your life away. /H

Silvia
08/01/2007 06:21 PM

Oh, forgot to tell I'm choosing a "test recipe" from the BB (any suggestion'd be wellcome), and will be trying it with different brands of flours... I know, one has to experiment! (and that´s something I love!)

Silvia
08/01/2007 06:18 PM

I' ve being doing a research on flour (Rose's books, McGee's, botany books, lots of websites....),and I've found a wealth of information, but not necessarily the one I´d wanted to find. That is, data about the flours you can find here in supermarkets. For example, it seems that Gold Medal AP here has 9,5% protein and is bleached...other AP flours (with higher protein %) don´t tell if they´re bleached or not. Is there a way of knowing it (colour, odour, texture, a test???).
As I´ve been reading about the problems of baking at higher altitudes, this worries me. I should be using stronger flour (unbleached), shoulnd´t I? And some places don´t advise to use instant yeast, either...or reduce the quantity substantially (how much is enough??), and also, to use less water.
Yes, I know, I have to experiment, but would thank any shortcuts...wasting time and materials saddens me... the most important question are: is there a way to know when a kind of flour has been bleached (BTW, customer´s services aren´t very nice to homebakers, here)? And, in any case, how could one "strengthen" the flour, adding more (how much)? I've been looking for gluten flour, but havne´t found it. Is a longer kneading time a way to strenghten the dough? Should long rises last the same time?

I hope I am not bothering you all, and I apologize in advance in case i do.

Hector
07/31/2007 06:56 PM

sorry, that was me, Hector

Anonymous
07/31/2007 06:54 PM

Silvia, if you own Rose's Bread Bible and Cake Bible, you will have all your flour questions answered and for good.

Bleached vs Unbleached. The first weakens the proteins and makes the flour more white. It is desirable for cakes and pastry doughs (low protein). It is UNDESIRABLE for bread where you need stronger protein to hold the bread and have the particular bread feathery texture.

Do a search on this blog, there is all the information about flours, bleaching, protein, and numbered flours as found abroad.

Silvia
07/31/2007 05:37 PM

I have just found information here, about the flours. Now i am beginning to understand (or so I think),why sometimes my cakes sink in the middle, sometimes they don´t, and other "accidents" that have happened, whwnever I have had to change the flour.
I'll have to do my own research and "taxonomy" of the local flours.

Silvia
07/31/2007 05:22 PM

Hector, My boss (a bread baker, also), *wanted* the book, as soon as he had seen it!!! It´s *the* book he needs, he said!

I don´t know if this is the place to make the following questions, but, i still don´t understand well, when and why one should use unbleached or bleached AP flour. the nomenclature and the data on flours here is very confusing I(*if* you fing information).

Matthew
07/30/2007 11:16 PM

Cindy--the recipe is in the Bread Bible.

Cindy
07/30/2007 09:39 PM

Hi. I just saw Rose making a 10-grain torpedo bread on one of the Johnson & Wales Master Class on PBS. Who knows where can I get the recipe for this bread? I want to start making bread and this looks like a healthy and wonderful looking bread to start with. Thanks.

Tyler
07/30/2007 08:20 PM

Hi. I was wondering if you knew where to purchase a big muffin pan? Like the cupcakes at Dean&DeLuca, those size. Because I think the one I have is too small. Or do you have a recommendation for a muffin pan?

Hector
07/30/2007 07:06 PM

Silvia, I find baking a way of culture, live, and living!

Love your category called "baking literature." Many of my friends have spotted at least one of Rose's books on my coffee table or on my night stand! They love to read it for leisure, too.

Silvia
07/30/2007 05:25 PM

Rose, I've been avidly reading the BB this week. I should better say, I've been studying from it, or researching, because the feeling is so remarkably similar to that of academic research. I mean this as a compliment, don´t missunderstand me: your book is so meticulous, coherent,and informative... BUT, it also makes for wonderful bedtime reading...it should belong to its own literary genre, "baking literature", between art, craft and science.
Your remarks about the importance of bread in the lives of man reminded me the ancient indigenous myths, about men being made of corn (you-are-what-you-eat), and the inextricable bonds that therefore are created between humankind and food . of course, I´m thinking of corn tortillas, our central-american "bread".
I've also been trying some of the recipes, but I guess I am having a bad-bread's week.
I am very very grateful for the very grateful moments thta both your cake bible and your bread bible have given me (and I know, will be giving me in the future). i ahve recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia (apart suffering the effects from the carpal , tunnel syndrome),and your books and baking have made many painful,sleepless nights feel fruitful, interesting and rather short! Apart from the joy of seeing my baking skills improve and also, fulfilling a child´s dream: learning to bake properly,and learning about what baking is about.
Regards and thanks.

Rose
07/18/2007 01:38 PM

aviva, just one thing to add to the above responses re bread machine. read the manufacturer's directions and check out my posting on the zojirushi.usually the liquid goes in first.

Hector
07/16/2007 03:55 PM

Aviva, I follow Matthews description as well. The rule would be to always allow the dough to reach room temperature before baking. I refrigerate my dough at any of the bread making stages, estimating that 12 hours in the refrigerator is like 2 hours at room temperature (it takes about 12 hours for the dough in the refrigerator to rise as high as 2 hours at room temperature), these numbers vary depending on your refrigerator temperature, your room temperature, and your yeast activity, it goes with experience.

Refrigeration is such a time and life saver for bread making, and it does increase flavor!

Matthew
07/16/2007 11:50 AM

Aviva,
There are a lot of ways you can approach refrigerating dough. I will give you the procedure that has worked best for me. Do the final shaping for the bread (loaf or free form). Allow it to rise for up to an hour and then cover and refrigerate it over night (a disposable plastic shower cap with elastic works great for covering loaf pans as it will give space at the top for the rising loaf). The bread will continue to rise slowly overnight and develop more flavor. Remove the bread an hour before baking to allow it to come to room temperature (keep it covered and do not deflate it). Preheat your oven during this time and you will be ready to bake.
If the dough is extremely active, you may want to reduce the rise time before refrigeration.
It is also possible to refrigerate the dough before the final shaped rise. You follow a similar procedure, but as you mention, deflate the dough before refrigerating it. Again, if the dough is extremely active, you may need to check it every few hours after putting it in the fridge to deflate it again. Bring it to room temperature for an hour, and then do your final shaping and rising.
I am a little more cautious about using this second method because it is possible to exhaust the yeast before the final rise. You need to take into account total the number of rises, the quantity of yeast, and the amount of "food" for the yeast in the recipe to decide if this method will work well.

Aviva
07/16/2007 08:08 AM

If I have a recipe for old-fashioned bread making, with the kneading for 10 minutes, etc. can I use the exact recipe and just dump the ingredients in a bread maker?

Also, if I am making bread the old-fashioned way and I have mixed it, and I'm not going to bake it until the next day, I'm confused when/how I refrigerate it. Is it after it has risen in a warm environment, and I punch it down(pizza dough), then refrigerate it? Is it without rising and when I'm ready to use it, I bring it out to rise?

Thanks a lot for your help!!

Matthew
05/27/2007 10:27 PM

Thank you. I tried 85 and that seemed to be a little too much. I'm going to try 75 later this week.

Rose
05/27/2007 02:06 PM

i think the only way to do it is by % of the volume or to make the full amount and bake the extra as rolls! (which is how i discovered the hamburger bun--as i wrote in the wa. post article this week!)

Matthew
05/27/2007 01:32 PM

Rose,
In chapter 4, I am trying to convert the 9x5 loaf recipes to 8.5x4.5. The average weight of your 8.5 recipes is 607g and 9x5 is 1038. I tried scaling by this ratio (about 60%), but that didn't work well. I am going to try by volume today (85%) and see if that works better, but I thought maybe you have already figured this out.

Hector
05/14/2007 01:26 PM

Rose, do a search on the blog, Matthew has already shown us how to post links of photos!

Hector
05/14/2007 01:18 PM

Matthew, YUMMY!!!!!!!

Matthew
05/14/2007 11:10 AM

To post a link to a photo, you need to add “tags” around the link to your picture.

1. Type this tag and paste your link between the quotation marks:
<a href=“”>
2. Type the text you would like to display as a link
3. Close the link with this tag:
</a>

This is a sample:

To post the photo itself, type this tag and paste your link between the quotation marks:

I haven’t used this method because I thought you might prefer links rather than photos pasted directly in the blog.

I upload my photos to a free account at I created at flickr.com. If you right click your photo and select properties, you can see the link to your photo (it should have the word static in the URL). You can use that URL as the link to your picture, but you could also use a link from another site.

Finally, I recommend you use the preview button to make sure your link works before you post.

Rose
05/14/2007 07:47 AM

matthew, that is totally stunning. i'd really appreciate if you could tell us all how to post a photo in a blog posting!

Patrincia
05/14/2007 07:44 AM

Matthew - beautiful loaf!

Matthew
05/13/2007 11:38 PM

I made your beer bread from the Bread Bible for the first time this weekend, so I thought I would share a picture.

As you said, the flavor of beer wasn't really perceptible in the taste; when I smelled a slice, however, I could detect the faint aroma of beer. This is one of those breads that makes that wonderful crackling noise as it cools. I am learning that I can expect to hear it when I bake one of your breads that calls for misting the boule before baking.

Rose
04/11/2007 10:55 AM

rice flour really makes a difference. do try it!

Barbi
04/11/2007 10:48 AM

Hi Rose, I have been working my way through the Bread Bible for the last year, and I just want to thank you for teaching me how to make great breads. I have had a problem with my sourdough sticking in my unlined cane bannetons, then deflating when I try to unmold to bake. I have tried more flour, but this just seems to increase the amount of 'paste' that is glueing my dough to the basket. I also tried using a floured cloth napkin to line the bakset, with no luck. I always weigh all ingredients, and on those occasions when the dough doesn't stick, I get beautiful, light, holey loaves. Any suggestions you have would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

Rose
04/11/2007 09:14 AM

slightly more dry.

chrissy
04/11/2007 08:40 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. Will adding more flour make the bread dry?

Rose
04/10/2007 11:11 PM

probably a stronger protein flour or added wheat gluten would be the solution. you could also try a stiffer dough, i.e. more flour.

chrissy
04/10/2007 09:14 AM

i just made my grandmother's italian easter bread (it's like an egg bread). it tastes the same as her's did, and has the light, airy texture as her's (plenty of holes), but it isn't as high. i let the dough rise overnight, then punch it down, shape it onto a cookie sheet (all as she did), and let it rise again before baking. my dough spreads out and up, while her's went mostly up. so her bread was about 4-5 in high, and mine only comes about 2-3 in high. i am not that familiar with baking bread, but do you know what i could be doing wrong? should my dough be stiffer, so it rises up instead of spreads out? i really appreciate any help and advice that you can offer!

Rose
01/19/2007 06:37 PM

o.k. harvest king back in morton williams bleecker street--i suspect it's selling out due to all this no knead bread after all it's not no knead flour!
i can't wait for my new little cast iron 2 quart lodge pot to arrive--i'm dying to try a half loaf size.

Rose
01/18/2007 08:51 PM

genie, for a short time my local supermarket didn't have any harvest king but at my nudging they restocked.

gently.
o.k. just kidding--go through the book--the instructions for shaping are there and they are beautifully illustrated.
sadly, though king arthur and steam master swore up and down that they would keep this item in stock it is no longer in existence except on e-bay!

Jerry
01/18/2007 07:41 PM

Rose: The Bread Bible is great! Two questions re your baguette recipe. On p 338 you say "give the dough a gentle business letter turn." How do I do that? On p 339 you mention a "Steam Master." Can't find that in the equipment section. What is it/where can I get one?

Genie
01/18/2007 01:32 AM

I have the same question as Lina (Dec.10):
I have been unable to find gold medal better for bread flour in the local grocery stores. Has it been taken off the market? Strange.

Rose
12/21/2006 02:18 PM

it's one of the things that weakens structure. please do a search on the blog for high altitude (for more info)

Lori i
12/21/2006 02:14 PM

When making zucchini bread in a high altitude, my bread always falls. Is it the amount of baking soda or baking powder I am using? I have been using 1 tsp of baking soda and 1/4 tsp of baking powder and am baking the 2 loaves at 325 degrees for 1 hour.

Thanks,
Lori

Rose
12/20/2006 10:34 PM

thanks for the link laurel.
hector, feathery and silky is a great description and makes me want to jump right into making the dough.
marron glace are not the same as marron in syrup. they're preserved in a sugar syrup and are dry.
do what the french invented for too many egg whites--make financiers!

Hector
12/20/2006 02:22 PM

Dear Rose, I am achieving the results I wanted for panettone. I owe it all to you. Your recipe is EXCELLENT, and I follow up pretty closelly. As I wrote, I only substitute the chesnuts by doubling the amount of raisins and adding equal volume of citron/candied fruits. Question 1: what gives the feathery texture? Can I guess the feathery texture comes from the business letter turns? Question 2: I ran out of panettone paper pans, so I used my lodge cast iron dutch oven with 3 times the recipe, the panettone came out wonderful, but the bottom of the panettone came out a little smashed (the holes were smaller and the texture was heavier); perhaps it is best to use a narrower pan to better support the dough when rising or perhaps I need to put the pan on a cooling rack during the final rising? The cooling rack would allow warm air to flow under and improve rising on the bottom?

Hector
12/20/2006 02:16 PM

Are we talking about marron glace? Those things are famous in Italy and France, but I haven't tried them myself. Marron Glace = Chesnuts in Syrup?

Laurel
12/20/2006 09:27 AM

Dear Rose, fellow bakers can find imported Chestnuts (Marrons) whole in syrup at www.markys.com. They are imported from Sabaton France and come in a 36 oz can. Marky's can also be contacted by phone (305) 758-9282. I have also used honey in Panettone with success to stretch the chestnut syrup. Best holiday wishes to everyone!

Hector
12/20/2006 01:34 AM

Yes, I agree, to use only 1/4 tsp of fiori di Sicilia, on the panettone recipe on page 511. This is my first time trying to bake panettone, and I have done so far 3 panettones, each with varying results as I am testing different variables. I believe I am a panettone conosieur, I have been consuming panettone every Xmas and my neighbor used to bake it when I was a child. My roomate is from Italy and we spent last Xmas there (with lots of panettone as implied). I agree that this recipe has just enough sweetness added (in the form of corn syrup, not sugar); however if you let the dough rise more than double at any of the stages of development, "the yeast will get to the sugar before you do." Regarding the fruit content: I haven't tried chesnuts, and I believe the chesnuts in syrup contribute greatly to the sweetness of the panettone. Panettone with chestnuts are sold in Italy, but they are not that popular. Instead of chesnuts, I suggest doubling the amount of raisins as indicated (36x2 grams). In addition, measure the volume of the raisins and add half this volume of citron (only about 28 grams of citron because it weights less than raisins). The citron I recommend is the one imported from Italy (it isn't so pungent, it is cut very small, and it sort of dissapears in your panettone). If you like to bite into candied fruit, add an additional 28 grams of grocery-store citron (comes in different colors, and cut bigger). Finally, the business letter folds are a must and be generous with the flour dusting between the folds, I believe this gives the gorgeous feathery silky texture; in addition, I am giving an extra business letter fold at the final shaping which makes a wonderful crust design (I don't use sizzors to cut a cross, I am too nervous to touch the panettones delicate dough). Good luck, the only problem I have is that I don't know what to do with all the extra egg whites!!!!!!!!!!

Rose
12/15/2006 03:51 PM

i'm deeply pleased to hear this! i once taught at the saucy sisters cooking school i believe in anchorage. i wanted to the press release to read "new yorker brings snow to alasaka" so one of the recipes i taught was lemon snow!

some authors write that you need to decrease the yeast porportionately for large volume and i suspect the reason is that the shear insulation factor of the larger mass of dough causes it to rise faster. but since it's a pretty slow rise as is, and this is a cold time of year, i would try 4 to 6 loaves using the same amount of yeast as usual. i'm assuming you have oven space or can retard the dough. when you overload an oven it takes longer to come back to temp. so should start maybe 25 degrees higher. and of course you need air circulation. please do report back!

Tanya Pashkowski
12/15/2006 02:35 PM

Dear Rose:

I too have spent years trying to develop an open crumb. Let me just say that one trip through the ciabata receipe from "the bread bible" has done the trick. I've been baking all my own bread, (I live in the Alaska Bush) for 40 years. I've tried to develop a bread with an open crumb several times a year, year after year. You do such a good job of explaining just why I should be shipping in a specific type of flour. The freight bills on flour are high, but not as high as price of a loaf of "C-" commercial bread so your book has been a godsend in that department as well. On to my question. How many loaves of ciabata can one safely make using the "doubling" rule? I've been thinking about making some for a community pot luck, but producing two loaves at a time, just doesn't quite cut it. I know that large quantities of yeast and flour behave -- well -- unexpectedly. What you think?

Rose
12/10/2006 11:38 AM

harvest king flour in the green and beige bag has taken it's place and many people including myself consider it superior. my recipe is on the back of the bag.

Lina
12/10/2006 11:23 AM

I have been unable to find gold medal better for bread flour in the local grocery stores. Has it been taken off the market. The pillsbury bread flour doesn't do wll in my bread machine.
Thanks
Lina

Rose
12/08/2006 08:16 PM

i think it's great with good quality candied orange peel and golden raisins soaked in rum.
but for the chestnuts--it has to be packed in syrup not just roasted. candied would be good too and probably means in syrup but would be good even if not. i'm surprised it has become so hard to find. i bet williams sonoma has it--probably very expensive. i know albert uster has it but they sell to restaurants so they have minimum orders.

Kyle
12/08/2006 03:32 PM

I'm making the panettone from "The Bread Bible" for the third year. I always substitute homemade candied orange peel for the chestnuts with great success but I wanted to try the chestnuts this year. I haven't found chestnuts in syrup (and I've seen others online that had the same problem). I can find insanely expensive candied chestnuts or shelled chestnuts with no syrup. What am I really looking for?

Rose
12/04/2006 08:57 PM

joy, a yeasty taste is not what bread bakers are looking for in fact too much yeast prevents the development of other flavors that result from a longer slower rise.
i hate to say this but sounds like you need to understand the making and sustaining a starter and i really think you should get "the bread bible" and read more about it. this is not something that can be posted as a blog entry--it is far too complex.

Joy F.
12/04/2006 08:50 PM

I can never get the yeasty taste in bread makeing. What can I do? Adding more yeast doesn't do it.
Also, I have made many loaves of sour dough bread and now am haveing terrible luck, it will not rise, and this is the the second starter I have started.
thank you, I have just found this site and really enjoy it.
JOY

Scott
06/30/2006 01:33 PM

Saccaduros are fun to make. Like Betsy, I have trouble getting them to puff up enough. Maybe living at about 4500 feet is part of the problem. Last night I tried something that was a big hit. I filled the saccaduros with a mixture of melted butter, cinnamon, brown sugar, granny smith apples, raisins, and walnuts. Might not be authentic, but they were sure delicious and fun to make.

Rose
06/09/2006 04:00 PM

first, make sure the seam is at the middle of the loaf on the bottom. then, be sure there is nothing on the side of the pan that isn't as rising as fast impeding the rise. perhaps you could grease the pan more heavily to make sure it rises easily on both sides. and turn it after the first 20 minutes of baking. if none of this works, try another pan! and do please let me know.

another thing that can help is to slash the top of the loaf right along the middle so that it can open up evenly on both sides.

Milt
06/08/2006 09:47 PM

First of all let me say how much I enjoy The Bread Bible. I've baked about thirty loaves of the Basic Soft White Sandwich Loaf which always taste wonderful; however, during baking, most loaves pop up on one side of the the loaf pan, making them look rather alien. The dough is stickey and I roll each loaf tightly, sealing with each turn. Moveover, I follow the recipe to the letter. Any suggestions?

Elissa
05/02/2006 11:56 AM

TELL ME WHERE DOSE THE BRED COME FROM

Rose
12/29/2005 08:03 AM

the recipe is in my book "the bread bible" on page 511. if you make it, use only 1/4 teaspoon of the fiori di sicilia--it is very intense but wonderful.

Amy Hall
12/28/2005 11:12 AM

I foind a comment on the Panettone with Chestnuts. Unfortunately, I got lost reading through it.

Can you please email me that particular recipe?

Rose
12/17/2005 05:17 PM

over the frig can be a nice warm spot!

Lyla
12/14/2005 09:53 PM

In this cold weather is there a better warm place to start sourdough starter than by the oven light? I use my oven quite often.

Rose
12/06/2005 11:14 PM

Note from Lynda who wrote the following:
I have a question about bagels. Since we took the class at the FCI with Amy Quanza 3 yrs ago, I've enjoyed baking bagels the most! When I top them with minced garlic for everything bagels, the garlic always burns. How can I avoid this?
Reply from Rose: You are so right! burnt onions can have a delicious carmelized flavor but burnt garlic is acrid and nasty. i don't know why anyone would put them on top of a bagel bc the high heat necessary to bake them always burns the garlic. i've never seen a garlic bagel where the garlic wasn't burnt!

Rose
12/06/2005 11:00 PM

Note to Cheryl re the Panettone: i just discovered your question got lost between two others and i never answered it. no--there is no mistake in the recipe as regards sweetness but if you prefer a sweeter bread you can certainly add sugar. i agree with you about the fiori di sicilia which can be far too intense. i now use only 1/4 teaspoon. i love the special flavor it gives but in excess it is so volatile it can seem almost petroley!

Thank yous

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