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Cake Questions

Dec 30, 2005 | From the kitchen of Rose

Update Nov 2007: Have a new question? You should visit the new Cake Questions section of the forum, or the more recent blog entry, Cake Questions Too.

Jessica Question:
Hi!

I live in Australia and decorate cakes for friends and family. I just discovered an old copy of your book the cake bible in my local library. I think its great so I have looked up your site. I was just wondering if the book has been revised and updated since first being published? I notice that mud cakes are not covered at all in the book I borrowed and there are some other modern things missing too. Anyway I know you're busy so thanks for your time. Keep up the good work.

Rose Reply:
thank you for asking. in fact, the first revision of the cake bible has just come out but i haven’t added any new cakes. what i revised was the equipment and ingredient sources, how to adjust batter for the more current pan sizes that are 2 inches high instead of 1-1/2 inches, and the chocolate sections because people don’t talk chocolate brand anymore, they talk percentage of chocolate mass!

i am, at the present time, working on a comprehensive four color cake book for wiley which will be out in the next two or three years and it will include some of the newer cakes.

Cheryl Question:
Is it possible to attach ribbons made from fondant around the bottom edges of the tiers of a buttercream frosted wedding cake? How and at what point in assembly would you attach them? Thanks.

Rose Reply:
the answer is yes! i would apply them after the cake is assembled. they will stick to the buttercream so you should have no problem holding them in place.

Stacey Question:
What is the difference between your "favorite yellow cake" in this blog and the yellow cake in the Cake Bible in terms of taste and texture? Also, I recently made a French buttercream that tasted like a bowl of butter and a powdered sugar and butter frosting that tasted like pure sugar. What is the best vanilla frosting to use for cupcakes?

Rose Reply:
my favorite yellow cake on the blog is the same as the one in the cake bible. i put it in because i wanted everyone to have it even if they didn’t have the book.

not everyone likes french buttercream. some people prefer the sugary, slightly gritty texture of powdered sugar buttercream to the satiny texture of the french variety. in any case, it’s going to taste like butter and sugar because that’s what it is. but it should also be flavored with pure vanilla extract. and of course there are many possible additions to buttercream such as coffee, orange, praline….

Melvin Question:
thanks for writing. i made the cheese cake but i was a little lose the next day i used low fat cream cheese was that a mistake? or should i have cook longer? thanks

Rose Reply:
i strongly advise against using low fat products in baking. they will adversely affect both taste and texture. better to cut smaller servings!

Rene Question:
Dear Rose,

I love baking and always have. And now I have the priviledge of helping a young woman, who is like a sister to me, with her wedding cakes. Unfortunately what she wants is a fair distance out of my league. I am hoping very much that you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me.

A single cake, I could do. What she wants to have one cake on each table, which turns out to be about 40 individual creations. (Ouch.) She is hoping for 2 tier cakes (around 8 and 6 inches.) We are tentatively planning 7 different designs with fillings including everything from dacquois to conserves.

It is the sheer volume that puts me out of my depth. It means that everything must be done as far ahead as possiblem, which I have very little experience with. I usually serve my cakes as soon after I make them as possible. Your Cake Bible is helping me a lot because it has so much information about storing each of the components. I am just trying to work out some logistics.

Is it better to prepare the components, store them individually and then put them together as close to the wedding date as possible OR is it better to put the cakes together and store them (for as long as 4, even 5 months?) ready to be decorated? Or could we even decorate them so they are ready to be tiered and finished? I really don't know.

I could just not begin to thank you enough for any guidance you could give me. I love this girl and want to do everything possible to help her wedding day be just the way she dreams of it. I just don't know how the best way to organize this size of a baking project.

Since I am here writing, I have a side question: what is your experience with using flower petals IN your cakes and buttercreams. I have seen these recipes, but have not tried them. Are they a pleasant suprise? Or more novelty, less than delicious?

Thank you, by the way, for all of the help your books have given me in pursuing my favorite hobby. :) Now that I know you have a blog, I look forward to enjoying that too. :)

Sincerely,

Rose Reply:
you are a saint!!! most professional bakeries when they make cakes ahead store the layers unfrosted in the freezer (well-wrapped). but this may be bc this gives them the option to use them with different buttercreams as the orders come in. but it is also easier to wrap an unfrosted cake. to freeze a frosted layer you would have to freeze it first and wrap it after the buttercream has set. so probably the best approach is to freeze the layers.

when you make cakes ahead, it is helpful to use a little simply syrup sprinkled on the layers to keep them from drying.

we all hope you will send a photo of this massive undertaking so we can post it to the blog!

re the flower petals, i don’t imagine they would offer much in terms of flavor or in texture. there are wonderful extracts such as the rose syrup carried by la cuisine in alexandria.

Bill
11/04/2007 08:04 AM

Patrincia:
I piped the roses with a flower nail, first piping a central cone. I don't find that it takes all that long, especially since I'm only doing a few flowers. (When using the mbc, the center cone is very soft, and the flower moves around a lot while I work...but they came out just great!) I also pipe the roses at the dining table...away from the kitchen...and away from the heat.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
11/03/2007 09:18 PM

bill it seems that no matter what happens you always come up smelling like a rose! that's really horrifying to have lost batter and scale to a sink of soapy water but so good of you not to disappoint the family.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
11/03/2007 09:13 PM

kalustian in ny and mail order sells grated and flaked coconut. i've never seen chocolate curls for sale but you could try googling.

Patrincia
11/03/2007 09:56 AM

Hi Nushera - I tried making them again on a pointed plastic fondant tool. The plastic was very slippery and I had a bit of trouble turning it in my hand. And like you, I found the buttercream slid a bit. I haven't tried the dowel yet... that will be next.

nushera
11/02/2007 11:50 PM

Hi Patrincia- today i tried to pipe roses on pencil(leadless) and ballpoint pen(inkless), they seemed to "slip down" slightly. then experimentally took a dough hook from the hand mixer and piped on the straight end- those were the best and quickest. and i am sure theMBC must be chilled for a couple of minutes if piping this way, ie, without the center-cone.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 08:26 PM

Oops, a 1 1/2 lb coconut will yield 3 3/4 CUPS of grated coconut.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 08:24 PM

Hi Tara - I don't know if anyone else can tell you where to find shaved coconut, or white chocolate curls.

Have you ever covered a cake with white chocolate shavings or curls before? The white chocolate melts very quickly in your hands, so I've found it's easier to scoop and press the chocolate with an offset spatula (but it's a bit awkward and time consuming).

You can easily shave coconut using a vegetable peeler or mandoline slicer. Page 352 of the cake bible says a 1 1/2 lb coconut will yield 3 3/4 of grated coconut (10.5 ounces/300 grams). I would think you might get a large volume if you shaved instead of grated. The fresh coconut can be refrigerated for a week, or frozen for up to a year.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 07:59 PM

Oh no Bill..... I'm so sorry about your cake disaster, and I'm even more sorry you lost your scale in the process. I nearly had a heart attach today when I discovered my kitchen scale was missing... one of the kids had borrowed it for her science experiment and forgot to return it (shew!). Maybe there's a silver lining to your story - a possible upgrade to one of Rose's favorite My Weigh scales???

I tried making the Mousseline buttercream roses on a pencil like the ones in the video that Nushera shared with us. I really don't like the idea of building a rose right there on the pencil lead, so I covered it with plastic wrap (I know, it's not real lead). Anyway, let's just say it did NOT work out for me. I've done roses before, but I think my kitchen was a bit too warm after cooking and baking all day, because my rose petals kept drooping down immediately after I piped them. Also, the plastic wrap did tend to get in my way a bit. Anyway, maybe a sharpened dowel would work??? I'll have to experiment some more and report back.

Tara
11/02/2007 07:57 PM

I am going to be making a wedding cake for New Year's Eve. The cake that was chosen was featured in a Martha Stewart's Wedding magazine; it's covered in coconut. The bride is not sure if she wants to go with coconut or white chocolate curls. It's going to be a rather large cake and I have been looking on the internet for places that would have shaved coconut (not shredded). As well I'm wondering if there is a place that sells chocolate already in curls that you may know of. Time is an issue, that's why I'm looking to buy either the coconut or chocolate ready to use. I would appreciate any advice. FYI I love the 'Cake Bible'; it's my very favorite cook book (& I have many cook books)! Thanks, Tara

Bill
11/02/2007 05:12 PM

Oh...and when I did finally get the chocolate cake iced with the mouseline buttercream I was just too tired to make some decorators butter cream to do the roses that everyone in my family expects on birthday cakes...so...it says in TCB that the mouselline can be used to pipe roses...I actually didn't think I could do it because it seems so soft to me. Anyway...I added a little paste food color to the left over mouselline...loaded my pastry bag...and piped the most beautiful roses...I was shocked at how well it holds it's shape. Rose...thanks again for your amazing books.

Bill
11/02/2007 05:02 PM

I also thought I'd relay my most recent cake disaster. I was asked to do two birthday cakes for my nephews...their birthdays are 2 weeks apart and there was to be one party for the two. There would be a Carrot cake for one and a chocolate butter cake with mousseline buttercream for the other. The party was set for last sunday. I did the carrot cake on Friday night (it keeps really well) and saved the chocolate for saturday. I overslept saturday morning...had to work during the day...so the chocolate cake got pushed off until saturday evening...the night before the party. I didn't actually get to it until after 11 PM...and my kitchen was still a mess from dinner. I decided to get the cake in the oven and then do the dinner dishes and cake bowls and utensils together. I had the batter done and was weighing it into the pans, when the whole thing...pans, scale, bowl of batter fell into my sink filled with Soapy water AHHHHHHHHHHHH! I had to start over...praying i had enough cocoa and vanilla (which I did). My scale was ruined and I had to use measuring cups. By the time I finished the cake (including the decorations), cleaned the kitchen and wrapped the presents it was 6 AM...slept for about 4 hrs and went to the party. The cakes- Yum! but I was beat.

Patrincia
11/02/2007 03:43 PM

Hi Bill. It is fantastic! I've never covered the Chocolate Oblivion Truffle Torte with Creme Ivoire, but since the torte is chilled for a few hours, I can understand why you had some trouble with the Creme Ivoire firming up so quickly - btw, great way to overcome that little bump in the road!

I made the Golden Almond Cake today (pg 37) - I had forgotten how truly moist and delicious it was.

Bill
11/02/2007 02:52 PM

To Hector, Patrincia and Sabrina:

Thanks for all your input! So here is how it went with the oblivion Truffle Torte. First of all...this is the first time I made this recipe. It was simple, fast, and came out perfectly! Next was the Creme Ivoire. I've never done this either...I'm wondering if it was too cold in the room...or if I didn't put enough oil in (perhaps I measured wrong) because I had some trouble with it firming up too fast. So...I turned on my oven for a few seconds...just to warm it a little, placed the cake, with the setting creme ivoire on it in the oven...waited a few seconds, took it out, and swirled the icing with a spatula...I gave up on the idea of glazing...it looked lovely and tased amazing! Definitely a keeper!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/31/2007 05:12 PM

prot, i've heard that soy milk works as a substitute for whole milk but have not tried it myself so i guess you'll need to experiment. but do report back as i'm sure many people would benefit.

Hector
10/30/2007 06:28 PM

7 pm, leave the winter clothes!

Patrincia
10/30/2007 06:04 PM

Hector - What time shall we arrive for Thanksgiving Dinner? :)

Hector
10/30/2007 05:53 PM

ok, ok, here is more of Hector's current project!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/thanksgiving/Rose-s-Celebrations.html

Patrincia
10/30/2007 05:11 PM

That Hector... He's a Keeper!!! :)

Hector
10/30/2007 04:25 PM

Joan, thank you!

Joan
10/30/2007 03:44 PM

Hi Hector - You know, I read these comments every day, and seldom say anything, but it is always with awe that I enjoy your remarkable insight and empathic comments. I am amazed, I laugh and giggle, and am just thoroughly impressed with the way you handle your expertise. Today is just one of those days I pop up to say so, such a pleasing interchange with Bill re crumb coating the bottom vs. the top. Regards, joan

Joan
10/30/2007 03:43 PM

Bill
10/30/2007 02:11 PM

Hector and Patrincia:
Thanks! Perhaps I'll spread a thin layer of the white chocolate butter cream...let it firm in the fridge, and then pour the glaze over for a smooth finish. Thanks to everyone for your help. It looks really yummy...serving it tomorrow.

Bill
10/30/2007 02:05 PM

Sabrina;
Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

Bill

Sabrina
10/30/2007 01:57 PM

Hi Bill, I actually did just this last week (if it is the oblivion truffle you are talking about). It worked just fine, I glazed it upside down and didn't do any preliminary coating. I only did one coat as I was just playing around, and you could see through it just a bit in a few spots, but with two coats of glaze I think it would produce a nice off-white coating. It was a delicious combination!

Patrincia
10/30/2007 01:43 PM

Hi Bill - Are you talking about the chocolate oblivion truffle torte? If so, you shouldn't have any crumb issues, so "bottoms up" to you! :)

(my only concern is that the white chocolate glaze won't be thick or opaque enough to cover the dark brown chocolate color of the torte - it might look a bit translucent)

Hector
10/30/2007 01:28 PM

Hi Bill, good question. Sure you can, but may I suggest you crumb coat it first with a thin layer of your glaze (with a spatula) to moist proof it, then you pour your glaze. See, the bottom of the cake is way more porous than the crusted top, and it could soak up glaze instead of letting it run fluid.

Bill
10/30/2007 01:21 PM

Hi bloggers. I've got a question, and since Rose is away, I'm hoping someone will know the answer. Last night I baked (and I've forgotten the name of the cake in The cake bible) but it is the flourless chocolate torte-type cake where you fold the egg foam into the melted chocolate/butter. The instructions in the recipe tell you to invert the cake to take it out of the pan and then re-invert right side up to serve. I am planning on glazing this cake with white chocolate glaze. The top of the cake, although flat, is a little lumpy (I didn't smooth it out completely...I thought in the oven it would smooth out more than it did). Since the top is essentially flat, is there any reason why I can't glaze the cake upside down...to get a smoother surface for the glaze? I don't think it will crack since the cake is essentially flat...but I'm not sure. Any ideas?

Patrincia
10/29/2007 04:45 PM

Gordon - a couple of reasons for your cracked top might be:
overmixed batter, oven too hot, cake baked too long, or it might have been placed too high in the oven.

Andrea - I like gas on top, and electric in the oven.

Hector
10/29/2007 03:57 PM

Gordon, this may also help:

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2005/11/rounded_vs_flat_cake_layers.html

Hector
10/29/2007 03:52 PM

Gordon, what you describe is most likely caused by improper oven temperature. Did you verify your oven temperature with an oven thermometer? Too cold, too hot? Did you bake at the middle rack?

Also, the Chocolate Cake Domingo is a very wet cake, perhaps you over baked?

Gordon
10/29/2007 03:36 PM

On 10/27/07 I wrote asking a question about a problem I had with the Chocolate Cake Domingo but the question listed under my name is about gas/electric ovens. Don't know how this happened but I would like to know why my Domingo cake split into three large parts, from center out, and took over 40 minutes at 350 to bake?

Gordon
10/29/2007 03:35 PM

prot srimekhanond
10/29/2007 02:49 PM

hello Rose.
i wonder if i could use soy milk to substitute milk when i bake a cake or bread. For sure it'll came out with diffrent smell (i think) but would it work? maybe it has less fat..?
the area i live i also could easily get Job's Tears Cereal milk and a lots more like corn milk, rice milk ect.

is there a trick or a guide, if i'd like to do experiment on these milk? so i could waste less food!

thank you so much in advance.
prot srimekhanond

Hector
10/29/2007 12:04 PM

Electric ovens are preferred for home baking, they heat faster and are more even than gas.

However I do prefer gas because gas is way more cheaper than electricity in Hawaii! and I do line with tiles and preheat my oven for hours and bake for hours, too.

But if I try to toast, roast or bake, something quick in my gas oven, forget it, it just takes too long to get ready.

For stove top, gas is preferred than electric because gas burners are easy to control temperature and don't have residual heat, but for boiling water electric is much faster. Also with gas stove top you need to have a good exhaust hood. Try induction stove, too! My ideal stove is 2 gas burners, 2 electric, and 2 induction.

Andrea
10/29/2007 09:41 AM

I was just wondering... Which is better for baking, Gas or Electric?

We have been talking about redoing our kitchen for a while. I have always used gas for both stovetop and baking, and I find that electric stovetop cooking gives the air a metallic taste, so I avoid it at all costs. However, I am considering installing a double oven to accomadate the amount of cooking and baking that I do, but all I can find is electric.

Gordon Rockhill
10/27/2007 07:19 PM

I tried the Chocolate Cake Domingo. Followed instructions to the letter. Cake split three ways at the center came out looking something like Grand Canyon. Cake took longer than 40 minutes to bake, cracks started opening at about 35 minutes. What happened?

Chris
10/27/2007 05:12 PM

Thanks, Matthew - I found the posts you were talking about, and will try the recipe this weekend!
Chris

Matthew
10/23/2007 01:58 PM

Chris,
If I remember correctly, the Golden Luxury cake works well for this. Search for posts by Elicia. She made a carved cake this year.

Chris
10/23/2007 01:05 PM

Hi Rose,
I just got your 1988 book, and was wondering which of the recipes for a white or yellow cake would be the most suitable for a carved cake? I am making lots of animals, cars, etc. and have a wonderful chocolate cake recipe, but have yet to find a white or yellow cake recipe that is almost as firm as pound cake, but one that can be baked in layers. Thank you for any suggestions you (or others) can offer.

Hector
10/22/2007 01:19 AM

I have the same issues. This last Dora cake I made, the Mousseline Buttercream had the works of Grand Marnier. But I've asked the mother for permission, and informed her that most of the alcohol should have evaporated by the time the cake was served which was 1 week later after I whipped the mousseline.

Mila
10/21/2007 10:17 PM

For kids you can use not the alcohol flavoring but just reduced juice from the frozen raspberries and if you add raspberry puree or concerve to the whipped cream it's going to be enough of flavor. I don't use anything "alcohol" in kids' cakes. They're happy with just fruit and berry cakes :)
I also wonder... will the boiling of syrup "kill" the alcohol and just leave it's flavor?

Alexandra
10/20/2007 05:07 PM

Thanks, I had planned on using Chambord or Framboise.
I am wondering, however, if I'll need to make an additional, simple chocolate cake for the kids? How pronounced is the alcohol flavoring? I'd also planned to use liqueur in the raspberry whipped cream.

Mila
10/20/2007 02:19 PM

Alexandra, i don't think that the cake will taste like a truffle if you use raspberry whipped cream with no chocolate added to it. But you can use ganache just on top of the cake and just syrup and cream between layers. I've made one like this 2 days ago, added Chambord to the syrup.

Mila
10/20/2007 02:15 PM

Oh yes, sorry i didn't put the syrup as it is like a part of genoise to me :)

Alexandra
10/20/2007 02:13 PM

I just bought the Cake Bible, so I haven't yet made the moist chocolate genoise.
I'll give that a try by doing a practice genoise before I decide on the final version. I don't really want a cake that is like a truffle; I'd prefer something cakier in texture. Do you think keeping the ganache covering fairly thin will achieve that?

Hector
10/20/2007 01:57 PM

That is heaven, a layer of chocolate ganache and a layer of raspberry cloud cream!

By all means on the moist chocolate genoise, and don't forget to apply syrup as it is required. The only time I don't apply syrup on the moist chocolate genoise is when I am making 1" thick little cake cutouts and top it with a big buttercream rose.

Mila
10/20/2007 08:18 AM

Alexandra, I'd also choose chocolate genoise + raspberry whipped cream. I also once tried covering the cake layer with chocolate ganache (in a thin layer) and then raspberry whipped cream on top and then all the rest of the layers in the same way - i liked the result sooo much! It tasted like some kind of raspberry truffle cake.

Mila
10/20/2007 08:18 AM

Hector
10/20/2007 03:27 AM

Alexandra, have you tried the Mousseline Buttercream with the raspberry variation? If that is still too heavy for you then, YES, use a whipped cream topping. The Mousseline Buttercream is so light and not so sweet compared to the "traditional buttercream."

In my opinion, the Moist Chocolate Genoise is the best chocolate cake you can have. The flavor is intense! and the cake is quite dense similar to a butter cake. Both reasons because it uses a whopping 8 oz of chocolate. This cake matches well with a raspberry whipped cream filling. A chocolate ganache frosting is such great finale.

Just a suggestion, because it is really a matter of personal preference. Cake is cake, as a matter of fact.

Alexandra
10/20/2007 02:59 AM

I'm looking for advice on mixing components from _The Cake Bible_. I want to make a chocolate raspberry layer cake. I envsion a chocolate layer cake with raspberry whipped cream filling and a chocolate ganache glaze or frosting. I prefer butter cakes to genoise but read in _The Cake Bible_ that that butter cakes should not be refrigerated while whipped cream must be. I'm not a fan of buttercream. I find the high butter content unpleasantly heavy. I'd like a light, airy, creamy raspberry filling. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I can create a cake that meets my taste specifications?

Matthew
10/20/2007 01:14 AM

Debbie, yes, Mila is right. The chocolate already contains sugar. This is one of my favorite chocolate buttercreams (probably because it is really almost a ganache).

Mila
10/19/2007 11:48 PM

Debbie, yes there's no sugar but there's 1 pound of milk chocolate and 8 oz of dark. I think that that quantity of milk chocolate will give this buttercream a perfect sweetness.

Debbie
10/19/2007 09:49 PM

I'm trying my first scratch birthday cake and am trying the all occasion yellow butter(for Mom's 88th) and wanted the choc. buttercream. Does the recipe on pg 250 of the Cake Bible not have sugar? A little confused after looking at the other recipes.

yvonne arencibia
10/18/2007 06:40 AM

Dear Rose:

I made your All Occasion Downy Yellow Butter CAke and I iccing with fluffy meringue, and it came out delicious. thank Yvonne

Bill
10/17/2007 05:32 PM

Uncle Ed:
Yes, I made the carrot cake...posted a message about it on another thread. It was delicious...but I really couldn't taste that much of a difference between the cake made with butter and the cake made with oil...so it's back to oil for me. Clarifying the butter was just another step that I don't need to do. And besides, butter is so much more expensive than oil.

uncle Ed
10/17/2007 08:45 AM

Bill-
Did you make the carrot cake?
How did it turn out?

WGN
10/11/2007 08:02 PM

I've never made 7-minute frosting before. Many of the recipes say to use it immediately, but does anyone have any comments for the way it holds up to refrigeration? I want to make a cake and refrigerate it overnight, but do not want it to dry out, harden, or crack like decorators (confectioners sugar) frosting.

Bill
10/10/2007 10:07 AM

Patrincia and others:
I will be making the carrot cake for my friend's birthday party. (Baking Sunday night, party on Monday evening) I am using my sister's recipe which she got from Gourmet Magazine and changing out the oil for clarified butter. I will report back on Tuesday with the results. I know it won't be as moist but the flavor has got to be better. I just hate measuring 1 1/2 cups of oil as the first ingredient in a cake (YUK)

Patrincia
10/10/2007 09:28 AM

Bill - I'll be curious to hear your results too, although I'm kind of on the fence about which would be better healthwise (but then again, who eats cake for the health benefits, right?).

Anon.
10/10/2007 09:17 AM

Bill-
You're definitely gonna have to report back to us how the carrot cake turns out...if it turns out good, then we all might want the recipe!! (I don't like oil in my cakes either!!)

Bill
10/10/2007 08:52 AM

Rose:
Thanks again for your help...I figured the clarified butter would work...just wanted to be sure. Now...Last night at about 10:45 PM I thought to myself:"I Need Cake" (I have to get up at 6:15 AM for work) So I cracked my new Cake Bible and made the White Chocolate Whisper cake for the first time. I made a lime curd mouseline butter cream...and finished at about 1:30 AM. I just want to say OH MY GOD IS THAT CAKE GOOD!. I never really liked white cake so I never made the white cakes in the cake bible...but the white chocolate intrigued me. It was amazing. Thanks so much again for all your wonderful recipies.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/09/2007 08:35 PM

scot, i quite agree! and i do think fresh coconut milk would work well as a substitute for the milk.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/09/2007 06:16 PM

i hope you kept the loose pages--it's convenient to work from them!

look up butter in the ingred. section to see what % is pure fat--or just clarify the butter and you will have "butter oil" which has the same fat content as oil. it should work but will offer a different texture.

Bill
10/09/2007 05:48 PM

Oh...and by the way...I just bought my second copy of the cake bible! (My first one has completely fallen apart). It is nice to have a fresh new copy...although the old one had character...and a big cocoa/water stain on the second page of the chocolate fudge cake recipe.

Bill
10/09/2007 05:42 PM

I've got a question regarding carrot cake. My sister has a favorite recipe...and I have to admit that it is quite good. The recipe has a very large quantity of oil...sort of like a muffin recipe. I was thinking of making it and using the white chocolate/cream cheese frosting in the cake bible to frost the cake. Here's the question: Could I substitue clarified melted and cooled butter for the oil? I just think that butter would be so much more flavorful. If I did...would I use the same amount of butter as oil by volume or weight? (or would they be about the same?)

Scot
10/08/2007 06:18 PM

hi rose. recently bought the cake bible -- white chocolate whisper cake is my favorite. question: can i substitute juice from a fresh coconut for the milk in that recipe? thanks!

Patrincia
10/08/2007 08:51 AM

Hi Yvonne - I'm not Rose, but maybe I can help. Yes, you can use Rose's meringue based buttercreams for all the decorations on your cake (they taste so much better than the crisco variety).

Your chocolate cake sounds like it was under baked. Were you using one of Rose's cake recipes?

yvonne Arencibia
10/08/2007 07:50 AM

Dear Rosa:

I planning to make a cake for my husband, It is 12". I want to decorate the top like a baseball field, my question is:
Can I icing the cake with Italian meringue, (your recipe) and decorate the top with buttercream icing, (the one that has crisco, meringue powder and powder sugar), or can I decorate everything with the meringue with the syrope at 250 temperature. I am going to use for decoration tips 3, 16 and 21 only.

Another question: I made a chocolate cake, raised to the top, and when I took from the oven sank, and around was separate like 1/4 inch. What was the reason. I expect your wise answer as always. Thank Yvonne

Patrincia
10/08/2007 07:28 AM

Gail - type "blogger Aaron" in the search box and you'll pull up a thread that talks about this problem in detail.

Gail
10/07/2007 10:56 PM

I just made two 9 inch layers of the chocolate butter wedding cake. It turned out so dry that I will just throw it away. I dont believe I overcooked it. I used real butter. What could I be doing wrong?

Veronica
10/05/2007 07:34 AM

Hey Hector. Glad you liked the beer mug cake. I have to say, it never crossed my mind to add beer to the buttercream. That would have been interesting. Must try. I'm sure I'll do it again for the christmas function for my husband's shooting club. Either the beer mug or a cake shaped to look like a cooler with beer cans stabbed on top and some gelatine squares to look like ice cubes. Hmmmm!

Hector
10/04/2007 02:25 PM

Jewel, try TCB's cream cheese frosting with real white chocolate, it has a very similar texture to buttercream, and yes, you can pipe buttercream on 'this' cream cheese frosting. It isn't a 'normal' cream cheese frosting; the real white chocolate adds a very nice texture and holds well. The taste is the best cream cheese frosting I've ever had!

After applying it, chill you cake until the frosting has harden, then apply the buttercream picture transfer.

jewel
10/04/2007 01:11 PM

dear rose,
I need to make a birthday cake for a friends daughter and she want a redvelvet cake with creamcheese icing, but she also want a picture of the bratz on the cake so I was thinking I could do a buttercream transfer but I dont know if buttercream and creamcheese icing mix.Meaning creamcheese icing on the cake and the art in buttercream. Do they? Also is this the way to do the cake or should I try some thing else can I do it in all cream cheese icing will it hold up? I'm so lost and I really want to do a good job.I've done other cake before but in one or the other.

Thanks for your help ahead of time

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/04/2007 11:21 AM

just so you know for future, i always (at least i try almost always) to give alternate methods if they exist so i'm afraid you do need a food processor of full size.
do check the many other recipes in the book to see if any fit the restriction guidelines.

Andrea
10/04/2007 09:47 AM

I have to make an icing to cover a child's birthday cake. The problem is that the child is allergic to soooo many things, including dairy, nuts and some vegetable products (he can have food with corn oil, but not vegetable oil or shortening). I was thinking to use the poured fondant from the TCB because of the simplicity of the ingredients, but I do not have a full size food processor, just the little two cup one that you can use to chop up garlic an small amounts of onion, and such. Can I use a blender or other appliance? Or are there any other icings that may be more suitable?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/01/2007 01:37 PM

this sounds like a recipe for disaster! you can't deviate this much from the original recipe unless you follow substitution guidelines such as the ones for chocolate to cocoa in the cake bible.

keep in mind that sour cream has more fat than buttermilk (see ingredients in cake bible) and of course cocoa has less fat than chocolate so you have to balance out all these things. it can be done but it takes a lot of planning and then i would try it before hand as there are always surprises! do report back.

cherry puré and fudge sounds fabluous!

Yvonne Arencibia
10/01/2007 07:32 AM

Dear Rosa:

I am planning to bake a German chocolate cake for my son's birthday. the ingredients are:
4 onz. of chocolate semisweet
1/2 cup of boiling water
4 large eggs
2 stick of butter
2 cups of sugar
1 teaspoon of baking soda
1 cup of buttermilk
2 cups of all purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon of vainilla

My daughter brought me 2 pound of Perrugina(famous brand)chocolate powder from Italy, is due since may, 2006. My question is: Can I sustitute, the chocolate that I have to melt with 1/2 cup of water with chocolate powder, and instead water added 1/2 cup of sour cream, I would like the cake be special, I planning to filled with one layer chocolate fudge and another with cherries pure. I would like your suggestions as always. Thank Yvonne

Linda
09/28/2007 07:47 PM

Hi Rose,

I am having a problem with my favorite yellow cake (Sylvia Weinstock's classic yellow cake) and a few others when I make them using your two stage method. I get this thick dense gummy looking layer at the bottom. Can you please tell me why does this happens? I've been told that it could be the batter isn't mixed long enough...following your instructions I mix a total of 2 1/2 minutes stopping and scrapping the bowl regularly. I notice my CIA Baking and Pastry book mixes the two stage batter for a total of 10 minutes. Please provide your input on this.

Here is the recipes I've tried the two stage method with both are high ratio recipes:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/02/09/sylvia.weinstock/yellow.cake.html

and

http://www.baking911.com/asksarahbb/index.php?showtopic=2552

I really love the velvety texture other than the gummy layer of the cakes and much prefer the two stage method if I can over come this one problem.

Thanks

Hector
09/27/2007 02:05 PM

Veronica, the mug cake is awesome! Did you try to add some actual beer to flavor the buttercream?

Elicia, got a question for you (btw, where are you????? we miss you blogging). I am baking with Wilton's 3D panda bear pan and debating on using whole-egg-Golden Lux or the Yellow Butter Wedding Cake. I think the Golden Lux deserves to be served with a more 'pure' frosting rather than this artificially dyed multi-color frosting I'll use to shape this cake into Dora The Explorer. Plus perhaps, Dora will not be cut/served, so it may just go to waste! So, a more traditional 'simpler' butter cake may suffice?

As for what will be around Dora (and served), that I am not cutting corners! More on this later.

Veronica
09/27/2007 12:40 AM

Tracey. an after thought. You could even use those wafer cigars. I think that's what they're called anyway. I used them to cover my holy communion cake if you go back and have a look in my space. I thought if you stick skewers in the side of the cake and because the wafer cigar is hollow it would easily feed onto the skewer. And for the curve on the handle you could use a bit of one of those straws that bends and then another skewer to make it stronger. I hope I've made sense.

Veronica
09/27/2007 12:33 AM

Tracey. I'm glad you liked the cake. I used lollies for the handle. They are called musk sticks. Not sure if you've heard of them. But you could even use licorice. I stabbed long skewers into the cake to help support the musk sticks and create the shape. Then using a long piping nozzle I covered the skewers and lollies with buttercream taking great care and then into the fridge to set. I think with licorice you could stick the skewer right through the center and then into the cake. I hope I've explain myself ok. If you what to know anything else just ask. Look forward to see your cake if you decide to go ahead.

Bill
09/26/2007 06:23 PM

Rose:
Once again...thanks for your amazing recipies. I recently made your Genoise Classique. The last time I used limoncello in the syrup, filled it with lemon curd and frosted it with mousseline buttercream that had lemon curd beaten into it. Great success! This time I used lime curd and lime buttercream. I made it for a friend who loved the icing but said "I don't really like the texture of a Genoise!" (Can you believe that! but you can't account for taste). So here's my question. If I was going to pair the lime mousseline buttercream with a butter cake...which would be my best choice?

Bill
09/26/2007 06:19 PM

Patrincia:
I've been storing the cake in a plastic cake keeper in the refrigerator. I live in New York City...very humid in the summer, very dry in the winter...time of year doesn't seem to make a difference. I just don't know AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Patrincia
09/26/2007 05:56 PM

Bill - back to your angel food cake... the only thing I can think of is the humidity of the air where ever you are storing the cake. Angel food has a high ratio of sugar, which readily absorbs moisture from any and all sources. Where have you been storing your leftovers?

Tracey
09/26/2007 12:07 PM

Veronica, your beer mug cake is wonderful! How did you attach the handle? Is it cake, or something lightweight like styrofoam? I'd love to try it for my husband's birthday. Thanks for the inspiration!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/25/2007 11:07 PM

your little boy really takes the cake!!!

Veronica
09/25/2007 11:02 PM

Now I have egg whites. hmmm what to do. So I decided to try the white chocolate whisper cake on pg 50. WOW. Highly recomend it.

Veronica
09/25/2007 10:58 PM

The cake came out perfectly. Here's a picture of him and the cake. Funny. There is also a picture of the beer mug birthday cake I did for my husband.
http://z1x2c3v4b5n6m7.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!4E90CD9DF0179897!416&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=&_c=PhotoAlbum

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/25/2007 09:31 PM

reminds me of my cousin when she was little and saw a chocolate glazed cake i made. she was so amazed and delighted she put her hands over her face. then she smelled it and got the tip of her nose print on the glaze. it's so wonderful to give children this unforgettable joy.

Hector
09/25/2007 09:20 PM

Veronica, baking with children is one of the most joyful things I've experienced, and when big enough they can be very handy and helpful, specially to cut and portion cupcakes! Thanks for sharing the human side of baking.

Veronica
09/25/2007 09:12 PM

This morning I felt like baking. I decided on baking the all occasion downy yellow butter cake. My 2.4yo son had to pull up a chair to watch the mixer going around. He looked up at me with his big eyes when I turned the mixer off and said "hmmmmmmmmm". Oh the joy in his voice as he shouted " yeah" when I gave him the beater to lick. Every child loves that job. Now it's baking beautifully in the oven and every so often he goes to check on it and says "hmmmmmmmmm". Can you tell that he loves cake.

Bill
09/23/2007 08:48 AM

Patrincia:

Yep...I let it cool, on the neck of a bottle, until it is completely room temperature. It may be the recipe. It doesn't happen right away...but after a few hours the bottom (or top before the cake is inverted) becomes all wet and soggy. Don't really know where the problem is. I'm going to try a different Angel food recipe next time or perhaps the Biscuit as per Hector's suggestion. Thanks so much for your input.
Bill

Bill
09/23/2007 08:46 AM

Hector:
Thanks for the info...I will try the Biscuit. As far as the Buttercream recipe...I ment to bring it with me to the office today (yes I work on Sunday AHHHHHHHHHHHH) But alas, I forgot it. I won't get a chance to get to it today, but I will definitely post it for you either monday or tuesday.

Bill

Andrea
09/22/2007 08:38 AM

Hector - I did use White Chocolate that contained Cocoa Butter. That ingredient was the sole reason that it took me a while to get to make that cake, since it was very hard to find. I searched every grocery store, and there are no real specialty stores here, but I finally found it in Walmart, of all places.

Hector
09/21/2007 11:49 PM

OMG, now I am feeling blue trying for true blue!

Andrea, did you use white chocolate that contains cocoa butter? Most white chocolate contain only vegetable oils and THAT could make a difference in texture. Mousseline is GREAT.

Patrincia
09/21/2007 10:24 PM

Hector - I don't know if this will help you at all, but sometimes red cabbage (which is really purple in color) turns kind of bluish when you cook with it. If you could find out what the chemical reaction is, you might be able to recreate that reaction with the blueberries.

Also, I googled "natural blue food color" and found a supplier that supposedly carries a true blue food color made from all natural ingredients.

Rozanne
09/21/2007 09:52 PM

Elicia, I would have gladly made a cheesecake but my brother wants a genoise.
Hector, I think your buttercream will turn purple if you use blueberries to colour it. I'm really curious to see what you will use to colour it blue. Any ideas yet?

Andrea
09/21/2007 09:33 PM

So I finally got a chance to try the Golden Luxe cake, but I am sure that I did something wrong, because everyone loved the taste, but not the texture. I did not adjust the eggs as Elicia suggested, because I used a shaped cake pan (Baby Carriage), but not a "stand-up" or 3D cake pan. The problem was that the cake, while moist and delicious, crumbled when it was cut into. I would say that about a third of the cake was left on the cake board because it was simply crumbs. Having reread Elicia's earlier note about the eggs, would I be correct in assuming that the whole eggs are necessary in this type of pan as well since it requires a longer baking time?

I also finally got the courage to try to make the Mousseline Buttercream today. Having only used the "Wilton" recipes, which are so simple, I was a bit intimidated as first. Of course, I have gotten over that as soon as I finished making the Buttercream, which is the BEST tasting I have ever had, and I have resolved to make a large batch of this and freeze it in 3 cup containers so that I always have some on hand. I made it as a Chocolate Mousseline to crumb coat a Chocolate Mayo Cake and then I got more adventurous and made the Chocolate Fondant (absolutely delicious) to cover the cake. (The cake was requested by a severe chocoholic, though the decorations were of my own choosing). Having never EVER worked with fondant before, I was nervous, but it worked out well.

Hector
09/21/2007 09:10 PM

In fact, one of the ingredients in chocolate is coffee? or to the least, cacao has a lot of caffeine!

Patrincia
09/21/2007 09:03 PM

Bill - are you letting your angel food cake cool completely before you remove it from the cake pan?

Patrincia
09/21/2007 09:01 PM

Oh Hector, I agree... just a touch of coffee flavor adds such depth to the chocolate buttercream (ganache too). I like to use espresso powder disolved in a little liquid.

Hector
09/21/2007 07:47 PM

Bill, do post your buttercream recipe, as I would like to compare method and technique. It sounds delicious.

If I may add my 2 cents, my favorite chocolate buttercream is the mousseline buttercream with the chocolate variation. It isn't as sweet, and if you want it intensely chocolate use a 60% or higher cacao bittersweet. In fact, you could also add more chocolate than what the recipe states. Adding Kahlua or Frangelico, makes the buttercream come ALIVE, not saying that it will taste alcoholic, but in my opinion, specially Frangelico, the liquor makes the chocolate flavor more intense as if you were eating it at a chocolate farm in Costa Rica! (the stale, dry, preserved chocolate becomes organic again). In fact, the best chocolate confectioneries have all some liquor added, you can't taste the alcohol, you only do the flavor. Mousseline also has an incredible shelf life and room temperature handling.

I favor Biscuit de Savoie or Biscuit Roulade over Angel Food cake. Give it a try, it is heavenly with cream and berries. I believe Angel Food cake is the USA version of Biscuit (which is French... or Italian since Savoie is a French speaking town in Italy!).

In all cases, do trim off the top and bottom crusts, they will get worse (soggier) when frosted. I know that the crusts 'can' be the tastier and most decorative parts of the cake, but do try without, skinned frosted cakes do taste great.

Bill
09/21/2007 06:16 PM

I've got another question, this time regarding Angel Food Cake. There is no recipe for Angel Food in The Cake Bible (just the chocolate Angel Food) and I know that a lot of people find Angel Food too sweet...but it is one of my Mom's favorites. Here's the question. The recipe that I've been using is really yummy (yes very sweet) but good, and everyone seems to like it. The problem is that the top of the cake (or the bottom, if you invert it after taking it out of the pan, gets very wet. Is this because of the high level of sugar? Am I doing something wrong? Do all angel foods do this or is there a problem with this recipe? Mom will be coming over for dinner in a few weeks and I was planning on baking an angel food cake for dessert, splitting it, and filling it with whipped cream and straw berries. Any thoughts?

Bill
09/21/2007 05:59 PM

Rose:
Thanks for the tip on the Jefferson Market. I don't usually shop there, it is a little out of the way for me (I live on East 59th) but I hear it's great. I should definitely give it a try. Again...thanks for all your wonderful advice, your amazing books, and this website. I'm heading home now and will be baking a big batch of cup cakes on sunday (using the Chocolate Fudge cake recipe) and a chocolate buttercream recipe that I got from a friend (it incorporates some dutch processed cocoa in addition to the melted chocolate...it is just a little more intense than a typical chocolate buttercream but not as intensely chocolate as ganache. If you're interested, I can post the recipe for the buttercream here.

Bill

Hector
09/21/2007 02:13 PM

Elicia, I did what I could to deliver this cake for my friends baby shower tomorrow. Clearly, I am 'too' concentrated with the charlotte and mango/passion projects.

I started with naturally apricot mousseline buttercream which I had stored. Adding dried blueberries to achieve baby blue and strawberry conserve to achieve pink. But the apricot base color deviated into unappetizingly shades. I felt that I've lost my magic, really. So, I 'recoursed' to food coloring.

But taking this into good experience, I still need to achieve a blue mousseline, naturally. I plan to make a finely strained pure with the dried blueberries, assure it is blue, and add it to PLAIN mousseline buttercream. I need to make ocean motives to top 'cut-cupcakes' for this Dora The Explorer At The Beach cake. Dora will inevitable be a tongue painter! red outfit, black hair, you name it.

Questions, are blueberries blue? they seem purple to me!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/21/2007 08:50 AM

deborah--when you say the 6 inch cake started separating i assume you mean that it curdled or fell apart. since the other layers weren't affected this way it probably got severely over-baked.

Elicia
09/21/2007 07:06 AM

Lovely roses as usual, Hector. But I wld rather you use raspberries and blueberries for colouring, haha! What made you decide to try paste colour? Your natural shades were just so amazing!

Hector
09/21/2007 04:49 AM

This is a tongue painter! Not sure if I love it or hate it. The best part is piping that delicate irregular pink trim on the cake base, that I love.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Color-it.html

Elicia
09/20/2007 09:43 PM

Hi Silvia, I used whole eggs (1 to replace every 2 yolks) coz Rose advised that it wld prevent overbrowning of crust from the longer baking period of 3D cakes. With cupcakes, its the reversed!

Hi Cindy - my TCB version uses cake flour. The original baking powder amt is 1 tbsp + 1.5 tsp (similar to 4.5 tsp actually). For cupcakes, increase it by another 0.5tsp. I think your structure is too strong and oven temp is too high - try reducing the temp by 25 degrees Fahrenheit. Its a lovely cake, so I hope you'll try it again.

Oh Hector - "golden luxed" - loved that! Well you were responsible for getting me "rosed up"! Well, we have coconut here as its an essential ingredient in local cooking! Thks for the insight on passionfruit - I've never seen them before I made that batch of curd! I have 3 more cupcake orders to go (one with tedious fondant work) - so I'll try to gather the pics and email you soon - some of the pics are in my hubby's mobile!

Oh Rozanne - do freeze - it doesn't affect the texture at all. Or try Rose's cheesecake - it keeps very well for weeks in the fridge!

Back to my cupcakes!

cindy Chiu
09/20/2007 09:13 PM

Hi, Elicia,I want to know what kind of flour do you use for the golden luxury cup cake and the final amount of baking powder. I remember the recipe in TCB call for 300 gm of self raising spongeflour and I cannot get that . I used cake flour and have to measure the baking powder. I have a recipe which recommend 1.5 tsp bpd and 0.5 tsp of salt to 100 gm of flour to convert it to self raising flour. For 300 gm of flour that means 4.5 tsp.But I was afraid that would leave a strong aftertaste so I only added 3 tsp bpd, and I used 2 yolks and the rest of weight whole egg. I baked it in a 8 in cake pan . The cake came out having a dome in the centre and cracked in the middle like a small volcano in the middle of the cake.Should I increase the bpd to 4.5 and lower the oven temp a bit to achieve a flatter and more even top? Any advice appreciated and thank you.

Silvia
09/20/2007 02:56 PM

>...then I realised it was because I've gotten so used to making the Golden Luxe with whole eggs (stronger structure) instead of egg yolks....

Elicia, why did you use whole eggs, do you live at a high altitude? And how many of them? Living in a high altitude, I always need to make the cake's structure stronger, and it would be very helpful for me to hear about your experience. And I'a also love to see your cupcakes!

Hector
09/20/2007 02:17 PM

Elicia, what a accomplishment. When you get some pictures please email them to my hotmail account inkasoy@hotmail.com, so I can share them here!

I am totally Golden Luxed! and you are responsible for that!

Hector
09/20/2007 01:55 PM

Rozanne, you can always freeze! and for months.

Be sure you put a sign on your fridge for your guests saying "cake in progress, do not open or store anything." It sounds harsh, but I am serious about this, if they store a case of pop or bear, your fridge will take about 2 hours to recover its temperature, and 'that' is what kills your refrigerated or frozen cakes. Let me tell you, one time, one of my guests left the fridge doors open so it would cool the kitchen while he was having his lunch!

When I made the big cake, I had a chest freezer, and that NOBODY was allowed to open. I prefer to freeze cakes than leaving in the refrigerator, specially when you are talking of the 1 week mark. Of course, there are some cakes you can't freeze.

Deborah
09/20/2007 12:20 PM

Rose:
I made the 3-tier wedding cheesecake from The Cake Bible. I had to make it in two batches, and I believe I split the ingredients correctly. The cakes were refrigerated for 11 hours before unmolding the 6" cake and returning it to the refrigerator. After about 30 minutes I noticed it cracked and started separating. Any thoughts on what happened?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/20/2007 12:17 PM

jefferson market on 6th and around 10th always has it!

Bill
09/20/2007 12:06 PM

Rose:
Bill here. Actually, I live in midtown Manhattan. (That's why space is at a premium...but supermarkets do tend to carry unusual items (like Lyles refiner's syrup)...but try to get a regular grocery item...Impossible! Sometimes I have to go to NY cake and Baking to get cake flour!

Rozanne
09/20/2007 09:59 AM

Thank you for all your help Hector. I will let you know how it turns out. I was planning on making it on Wed. but due to the fact that I will be having guests (from Sydney) staying with me I was wondering if making it on Sun. would affect the quality of the cake. They were not supposed to stay with us but changed their minds and in the process ruined all my plans and this is how my confusion began. Oh well! The cake is for the 29th of Sept. It is for my brother's wedding. My fridge is going to be full of cakes. Fortunately I have another small fridge. Thanks for your tips on the temp. of the fridge.

Elicia
09/20/2007 04:14 AM

Had an exciting and tiring day - delivered all the food for the wedding registration reception (yes, I cooked everything!), and everybody was so excited over the raspberry hearts cupcakes! They were taking photos etc! Already the bride called me and said they wanted to order cupcakes from me! I've gone cupcake-mad!

Days of baking/cooking means a long long list of comments to read on this blog! So just want to pipe in on my vote for the Golden Luxe Butter Cake! Only disadvantage is that the Varlhona white choc is costly!

FYI, I finally made the most perfect cupcake with that recipe. I initially had a doming problem - then I realised it was because I've gotten so used to making the Golden Luxe with whole eggs (stronger structure) instead of egg yolks. So - I went back to the original recipe of yolks-only, increased the baking powder as per Rose's advice for cupcakes, lower the oven temp by 15 degrees Celsius - and I got the most beautiful cupcake - ever so slightly domed (almost flat - great for glazing), and an extremely soft and fluffy moist texture. It is less dense than the recipe baked in a large cake tin, but absolutely delicious and pairs so well with fruit mousselines and Creme Ivoire!

Am on my way to ordering another 5kg of white choc - will be baking lots of Golden Luxe Butter Cupcakes over the next few weeks!

Hector
09/19/2007 11:54 PM

Rozanne, sorry for the confusion. Re: refrigeration life, do what fits your schedule best. There won't be much harm done if you do it on Wed! Just 'try' to refrigerate it asap (don't leave the cake at room temperature and go away to do something).

I prefer to first refrigerate the cake unwrapped until the frosting has harden and will no long stick, about 2 hours. Now wrap tightly with plastic wrap. And if you have the room, now put that wrapped cake inside a cake box (it isn't necessary really, the box is just to protect again smashing the cake by something else in your fridge).

How long it takes for a frosted refrigerated cake to reach room temperature? It is answered in TCB. 4 hours I think. When you take out the cake from the fridge, remove the plastic wrap so it won't stick to the cake as it thaws.

I don't think why you would need a styrofoam box, unless you are handling frozen cakes, or you want your refrigerated cake to take longer than 4 hours to reach room temp. Don't refrigerate or freeze a cake in a styrofoam box because it will take hours if not days to reach your chill!

Rozanne
09/19/2007 10:33 PM

Thank you Hector. Now I am confused. Should I wait till Wed. or make it on Sun?
Anyway, if you don't mind may I ask you a few questions...
Do you know how long it takes for a refrigerated genoise iced with buttercream to come to room temp. in an air conditioned room? Re wrapping the cake in several layers of plastic wrap, can I put it in a cardboard cake box and then wrap the box in plastic wrap? Or do I have to use a plastic or styrofoam box? I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions. I have never had to keep a cake for so long.
Thank you.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/19/2007 09:01 PM

cathy, i just want to point out that i wrote about not liking the way cakes bake in 3 inch high pans unless they are génoise. if you deviate from my recipes and pan recommendations you will have to experiment on your own to find a satisfactory result. i'm sorry i can't help but i can only recommend what i find to be the best.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/19/2007 08:51 PM

bill, you must have come from the uk?
there is a category in the section on the left for pies, and then general or i forget what other category. you can always post anywhere but if you check out all the listening on the left of the blog you'll find a lot of interesting things.

cathy--everything i know is on those charts so instead of my looking at them i'm going to ask you to do so!

Hector
09/19/2007 07:57 PM

Oh Cathy, you are correct.

Cathy
09/19/2007 07:50 PM

Hector, when you said two thin layers, did you mean bake two separate cakes at sep times? My pan is 3" high. Won't that hinder the baking process if the batter does not come at least 1/2 up the pan?

Cathy
09/19/2007 07:47 PM

Rose, should I use the same baking powder amount for level 6/sheet cakes--6.13g white base--for the 3/4 sheet cake? I guess I should divide that amount between my two batches..?

Is there anything else I should consider re baking powder for this large of a sheet cake?

Bill
09/19/2007 04:46 PM

I haven't found a place on the website for pie and pastry...I'm a computer dork...so I'm making this posting here. I recently made the pecan pie in The Pastry Bible. First of all... it was amazing. I don't like pecan pie...I made it for my sister...and she loved it! (I did too...and I usually hate the stuff). One of the good things about where I live is that I was able to buy Refiners Syrup, as well as brown sugar from Mauritius in my local supermarket. When I tasted the refiners syrup (I was curious) it took me right back to my childhood. When I was a kid in the 1960's my grandmother used to buy these lolly pops that were in animal shapes. They were very smooth in your mouth and came in a plastic bag with a little red plastic locking device on the top of the bag. Does anyone remember these? Are they still made? They had a very unique taste. The refiners syrup tasted exactly like these lolly pops (it was probably used in their production). I loved them as a child and would love to find them again.

Hector
09/19/2007 02:59 PM

Bill, I feel for your 'premium space' limitations. I had to get rid off a corner coffee table to place my little 12-bottle vinotemp. Then, I got rid of my guest room's desk to place a chest freezer. At this pace, I plan to get rid off my dining table to place another freezer under. Fortunately, I have tons of table cloths and rugs, where these appliances sit disguised!

Oh, and my kitchen refrigerator is always full of great baking stuff and ingredients that I don't let anybody put any of their foods or drinks inside when entertaining (the constant opening/closing of the doors drives my thermometers nuts). What I do is block access to my refrigerator by placing one of those fancy stainless steel kart-coolers in front where guests can stuff it with whatever they want!

Cathy, you could bake 2 thinner cakes and fill the layers with something yummy.

Rozanne, I think you will be ok to refrigerate your genoise for that long. It really depends on how much the temperature fluctuates in your refrigerator. Specially, don't let ANYONE place a warm six pack of beer or soda in your refrigerator, because that takes about 3 hours of temperature fluctuation! Also, keep the cake airtight, use several layers of plastic wrap for example.

Also, something that I found helps to extend refrigeration shelf life, is to minimize the number of room temperature hours. For example, usually I bake at night, and let the cake cool at room temperature overnight; instead, I stay up a little later and refrigerate the cake as soon as it has cooled (2 hours or so).

Regarding the syrup stuck when making mousseline, try using a ceramic bowl or gravy saucer, instead of a glass pyrex. The ceramic retains heat better than glass, thus there is a lot less stuck in it. I also find that if the ceramic bowl is at 80oF, it is much better, too, this I found out when dealing with the syrup during cool evenings, sometimes as low as 65oF.

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:45 PM

Oh! I also meant to ask....in a chart I found, it indicates that as the pan gets larger, the temp of the oven should go down to 325 deg. Would you agree with this for a 3/4 sheet cake? It looks like it could take up to 75 mins for it to bake...

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:15 PM

Thank you Rose and Bill for answering my above ? about the 3/4 sheet cake pan and batter. I am so relieved there is a way!

Cathy
09/19/2007 12:12 PM

Great questions! Bill leads me to a related question...when I make Mousseline BC, it seems like much of the syrup (cooled) ends up sticking to my measuring cup by the end of my additions to the eggs. I always wondered about whether this made much difference in sweetness of the end bc.

Can I microwave the liq measuring glass at the end to get the rest of the syrup into the mixture?

Bill
09/19/2007 12:06 PM

Rose and Matthew...it's so simple...Why didn't I think of it?...I've been baking for years!

Thanks so much

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/19/2007 11:59 AM

that's a first!

o.k. i'll add one thing--if you weigh it out it will cool off too much so you'll need to microwave it to make it liquid.

Matthew
09/19/2007 11:58 AM

Whoops--looks like we answered at exactly the same time!

Matthew
09/19/2007 11:56 AM

Bill--it seems like you could just make a larger amount of syrup (since those ingredients are so cheap), and then weigh out the amount you need just before adding it to the eggs.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/19/2007 11:56 AM

the problem is that until the water boils out you won't start getting to the right temperature--temperature and water content are synonomous. what you could do is make more syrup and only use part of it!

Bill
09/19/2007 11:52 AM

Rose:
I've recently discovered your blog...and I love it almost as much as I love your wonderful books. I'm ready to buy my second copy of the cake bible...I've used mine so many times that the pages are falling out! I have a question. I usually make extra buttercream and freeze the leftovers for cupcakes (as you suggest). Recently, though, with no room in my tiny freezer, I wanted to make a small batch of mousseline buttercream to frost a single layer genoise. Problem: the small amount of water in the syrup made it difficult to get the entire end of the thermometer submerged. Is the amount of water crucial? Does the excess boil out? I'd appreciate your input before I give it a try...

Rozanne
09/19/2007 11:40 AM

Thank you for your respons Rose and Bill. I guess I will wait till Tues. or Wed. to make the cake then.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/19/2007 10:16 AM

agreed--it won't be quite as wonderful but still wonderful!
cathy, 2 inches are ideal but 1 inch still allows for circulation so that should be fine.
re mixing the cake in two different batches, i would have absolutely everything ready to go and then do the batter in the 6 quart, immediately do the batter with the hand mixer (if you had a second bowl for the 6 quart that would be better still) and mix the 2 together. it only takes a few minutes to mix my batters so that's why i think this would work the best. and although you can't overload the 6 quart with the whole batter, once you take out the paddle there will be room for the rest of the batter--i hope--and then you can just stir the two together with a large spatula. OR quickly transfer both batters to a larger bowl, stir them together, and fill the pan. whew!

Bill
09/19/2007 10:15 AM

Cathy:
With respect to your oven...I live in Midtown Manhattan where space is at a premium...and I have a 24 inch range...giving me very little internal oven space. I do have a good oven...but often have to put my pans very close to the sides...and may cakes come out fine...even, with no problems. I would say, as long as you have a good oven, you shouldn't have a problem. As far as the large quantity of batter: If you are making a butter cake, and using the two stage mixing process that Rose uses in her book, the batter can be mixed pretty quickly. I would make two batches in the mixer, and then mix them together by hand in a big bowl (I would probably use a stock pot (that's the only thing I have big enough) and then pour it into the pan. The 6 minutes or so that it will take to mix up the batter shouldn't make a difference...I wouldn't keep the batter in the fridge for 1/2 an hour...that would cause a problem with the levening agent. Good luck

Bill
09/19/2007 10:07 AM

Rozanne:
I have made a genoise that was iced with buttercream. I served it on Day 2 after baking, but kept the leftovers in a plastic cake keeper in the refrigerator for a week. It held up pretty well. It wasn't as perfect as it was on day 2 (it seemed to get a little soggy...almost as if the humidity in the cake keeper affected the genoise)...but it was still delicious. Perhaps since your cake will not be cut, the sogginess won't happen. In any event...even with the extra moisture, the cake was still delicious...good enough to serve to company.

Cathy
09/19/2007 09:48 AM

I just got my new 3/4 sheet pan, and while in the oven, it has only about an inch between it and the oven sides on the right and left. I know you should have 2 inches. Do you think I will have a problem with this?

Also, I just measured last night and found out it will take 10 qts of batter to get it 1/2 full (3 " sides). I have my 6 qt mixer. I'm wondering if I should 1 of two things: 1) mix both in my 6 qt and hand mix the rest simultaneously 2) (I don't know if I should do this) mix 6 qts of batter, refrig in pan in frig, then the rest and pour into same pan to add to it. Would this be okay or would it break down the structure of the cake somehow?

Thanks everyone!

Rozanne
09/19/2007 09:14 AM

Hi everybody,I was wondering, if I make a genoise on Sunday, decorate and refrigerate it the same day, will it still be good for next Sat? I know Rose mentions in the Cake Bible that the finished cake can be refrigerated for 5 days. Do you think the extra 2 days will affect the cake?
Thank you.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/18/2007 09:37 PM

sweet... i feel your joy!

Hector
09/18/2007 07:11 PM

Silvia, thank you! It isn't 'my cake' it is Rose's, and indeed it is a deluxe version of a butter cake. The use of white 'real' chocolate, replacing part of the butter, sugar, and milk, turns a traditional butter cake to a very fine crumb cake thanks to the emulsifiers in the chocolate (Elicia attests). Now I am in a bind deciding which is the best butter cake on my list: from airy to firm, the Golden Genoise, the Golden Lux, or the Buttermilk Country Cake.

Bill, that is a PERFECT combination, genoise with limoncello and with a lovelly lemon buttercream, which is the king of the flavors on buttercreams.

Silvia
09/18/2007 05:24 PM

I hate to be repetitive, but hector, your cakes look all great and delicious.
The crumb and colour of this cake seem lovely to me.
Nice to have your opinon about these kaiser pans, as i´m planning to order a couple of them

Bill
09/18/2007 05:17 PM

Rose:
I am a fairly experienced baker and cake decorator (not for a living...but for any and all functions for work, friends and family). I've had The Cake Bible for about 5 years and it is truly my bible. Every recipe that I've tried has worked perfectly and they are truly delicious. I recently made my first Genoise (I guess I just never got around to it). I split the layer, used Lemoncello liqueur in the syrup, filled the layers with lemon curd, and iced the cake with Mousseline butter cream that had some lemon curd beaten into it. Let me just say: OH MY GOD!. I wish you could have seen the look on my friend Cathy's face when she took a bite. It was one of the most gratifying moments of my baking career. Thanks for all of your wonderful recipies and all of the fantastic technical information you give.

Hector
09/18/2007 03:11 PM

Jennifer, it is made by Kaiser (Germany), and actually widely sold in the U.S. Do a search in Amazon, under Kaiser Tinplate Springform, look for the ones with 2 removable bottoms, one flat, one tube. The tube has the indentations.

I am surprised of how well the cake baked in spite of not been an aluminum pan. I think the wide tube helps in heat conduction, you can't go wrong.

jennifer
09/18/2007 01:41 PM

Oh Hector!

I loooove that cake pan! right side up or upside down the cake looks great. Where can I get one?

jen

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/18/2007 09:58 AM

it's being revised and translated in spain right now (do a search on the blog and you'll see the publisher etc.) and should be out within the year!

yvonne arencibia
09/18/2007 05:28 AM

Dear Rose:

I have your bible book in English, but by any change do you have it in Spanish language. It will be a great help. Thank Yvonne

Rebekah
09/17/2007 07:26 PM

I am looking for a good Della Robbia Cake. My mother used to have a Wilton book with the most beautiful cake in it. It was a white cake, icing unkown (but white and SMOOTH)with deeply colored fruits and leaves done in a wreath around the top. I do not know if they were piped or formed from paste. The date of this book would be about 1960. In the meantime, if anyone has a non-angel food Della Robbia recipe, please let me know. The cake I am looking for is a decorated, frosted cake. Thanks!

Rozanne
09/17/2007 11:51 AM

Thank you Rose. That's what I thought but wanted to check with you to be sure.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/17/2007 10:06 AM

no need to use cream of tartar as the whites are beaten with a significant amount of sugar so no risk over-beating.

Rozanne
09/17/2007 09:49 AM

Liz, I know what you mean about having nights only to get things done. I have two little girls and I am always trying to find shortcuts and easy ways to do things. Sometimes I make Swiss Meringue buttercream using the same ingredient quantities as Rose's Mousseline buttercream recipe. I use pasteurized egg whites and don't use the cream of tartar. I have left cakes iced with this buttercream at room temp. and it has been perfectly fine. However I have not used it under fondant. I hope this helps you somewhat.
Rose, do you think I should use the cream of tartar or would it not serve any purpose in the Swiss Meringue recipe? Thank you.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/17/2007 07:16 AM

gorgeous hector--and empowering for everyone to realize that one can turn out great cakes without highly specialized equipment--it's just not quite as easy.

Liz
09/17/2007 06:38 AM

Thank you, Rose! If anyone has any opinions regarding swiss meringue buttercream i woud realy appreciate your comments!

Hector
09/17/2007 12:00 AM

This is my first Golden Luxury Butter Cake.

I baked this at my friends kitchen, without any 'specialized' equipment. It was a standard electric home oven with exposed heating elements. I placed one rack on the very top holding a large and heavy rectangular Lodge griddle, preheated for 45 minutes. I believe this contributed to the even baking.

The kitchen scale was a $4.99 Walmart diet scale, I thought it should belong to my niece's doll kitchen, but it worked ok for its use. I carefully measured by volume and verified by weight as accurate as possible.

The pan used is a spring form with a savarin tube base, made of shiny tin.

Enjoy,

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/GoldenLuxuryButterCake.html

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/16/2007 10:56 PM

mousseline buttercream (page 244 cake bible) would be fine but i can't attest to swiss meringue buttercream as the egg whites are only brought to 140 to 160 degrees F so may lack the stability. if you prefer to use this buttercream you need to do a test sample to see what it is like after sitting at cool room temperature for 2 days. maybe someone else on this blog has experience with swiss meringue and will comment.

Liz
09/16/2007 10:16 PM

Hi Rose!
I am a huge fan of Swiss Meringue Buttercream. I want to know if i can fill and crumb cakes with smbc, cover in fondant, and decorate them one day ahead of an event, at room temperature. I live in CT and the weather is getting cooler, so heat and humidity shouldnt be an issue any longer. This is my biggest issue-i have refrigerated fondant covered cakes that were filled with smbc and added gumpaste decorations the day of delivery, at room temperature, but it is getting increasingly hard to do that. I have two small boys and really only have nights to work on my cakes. Thanks! ps-love your book :)

Hector
09/15/2007 11:26 PM

Tracey... beautiful!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/15/2007 01:30 PM

tracey, thanks for sharing your beautiful cakes. i too loved the peter rabbit cake (did you all see the new beatrix potter movie?--very moving). and i loved the use of blueberries--then discovered you are from ME.--land of marvelous blueberries.
futtercream--great descriptive name!

Jeannette
09/15/2007 11:34 AM

I have just had a peek at your BEAUTIFUL cakes , Tracey, you should be very proud of those, I particularly liked your Peter Rabbit cake as I live not too far from The Lake District where the stories originated, and I have books and figurines of the subjects you have on your cake I notice you live in a lovely area of the States too, we holidayed there 10 years ago to see the Fall colours and it was beautiful.

Matthew
09/15/2007 11:29 AM

Your cakes are beautiful Tracey!

Rozanne
09/15/2007 11:29 AM

Tracey, I love your cakes. Specially the wedding cakes with the basket weave.

Tracey
09/15/2007 10:24 AM

A belated thanks to all who wrote in re: my question about "buttercream" with no butter (for a "vegan" who's OK with eggs, but no cream, milk, butter, etc).

I used half Crisco and half Soy Garden butter-substitute to replace the butter in Rose's tried & true Neoclassic buttercream (a recipe I adore, and which has served me well through many a cake!).

The results were dreadful, not surprisingly. The overwhelming artificial butter flavor made me glad that I used half Crisco. The texture would have to be described as pourable, rather than pipe-able. I added in quite a bit of powdered sugar to offset the nasty taste and to thicken the frosting.

In the end, I used the "futtercream" (fake buttercream), as they had specifically requested a Soy Garden buttercream, but had to keep the sheet cake in the pan (frosting too runny for stand-alone) and topped the cake instead with rolled fondant and silk flowers surrounding a lamininated glossy photo clip suitable for a baby shower, and personalized for the event. Not a shining moment!

I will stick with Rose's philosophy from now on. I'm happy to make a cake for a customer the best way I know how (with natural, top-quality ingredients) but will regretfully have to decline any requests for anything else -- even for a close acquaintance, as this was.

Thanks again for all your input. Some of my much more successful cakes -- ALL THANKS TO ROSE'S WONDERFUL BOOK! -- can be viewed here, if anyone's interested: http://www.wingshillinn.com/dining/baking-and-delivery/

Cathy
09/15/2007 09:47 AM

Hector, once again, thank you. This is extremely helpful and answers all my questions. I plan to do it today and will let you know how it goes!

Hector
09/15/2007 04:37 AM

Cathy, let me tell you, tonight I've opened a jar and it was eaten half empty! Who would think that jam can be eaten with your dinner bread! People said the taste was pure, simple, you could taste the fruit.

answering: (1) this is usually traces of fat or protein as if you would be boiling bones and vegetables to make stock. Use a slotted skimmer. (2) be sure to not screw the caps tight, Ball recommends just two-fingertip tight or as much as you can tighten with the strength of your your thumb and index fingers, 10 minutes starts when the water boils and with the jars in. (3) remove the rings and lift the jars by holding the lid, if the lid doesn't come out or if you try to detach them with your fingertips then it is a good seal, thus the lid would come off only if you pop them out with the edge of a spoon, also the center of the lid will be concave in, not popped out. (4) I've asked this question to myself over and over too until I found the answer, the lids are only fingertip tight, sealed enough for water not to come in at normal outside pressure, but inside as things heat up then things expand thus expanding pressure, the air is force out first since it is upright.

Cathy, you need to get the little paperback book from Ball called Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving. I got it after Rose told me that these questions are addressed in the book. Or, go to the Ball website, they have a pretty complete guide on what happens during canning.

Happy conserving a la Cordon Rose.

Cathy
09/15/2007 12:15 AM

Okay friends.....I got all the necessary equipment and can't wait to try the strawberry conserve. However, upon re-reading the recipe, I realize I have many (possibly embarrassingly simple) questions about preserves in general. The only exposure I have ever had to canning/preserves was when I was a little girl visiting relatives. And all I remember then was the smell of pickles filling the whole house. :)
Therefore, if you can patiently help me, I would be so grateful.

1) On page 333, Rose mentions to skim the white foam from the surface. What causes this white foam? What is this? What kind of tool can you use to skim it off?

2) When you put the jars (with caps screwed on) into the water bath, covered, Rose says, "for 10 minutes after the water comes to a boil." Does this mean the water will continue to boil with jars in the water bath?

3) Rose says, "Remove and allow to cool before checking the seal." How do I check the seal? What would it be like if it is right? (I know I am displaying pure ignorance here!)

4) On pp. 334 top--Is this paragraph describing what is going on during the process? She says, "They must be upright to expel any air inside the jars, producing a vacuum which seals the jar." If this is in fact describing the process on the previous page, I thought the jars were "sealed" because the lids are already on while in the water bath. If the jars have the lids on...how do they expel air with the lid on?

Again, thank you for being patient with me! I know most, if not all, of these questions are pretty simplistic for those of you who have done this.

Patrincia
09/11/2007 09:47 PM

Cathy - do report back on your preference re conserve vs puree.

Elicia
09/11/2007 08:26 PM

Puree gives a smooth even texture, but I like to add conserve for a nice 'organic' feel. It works the same!

Hector
09/11/2007 04:48 PM

Cathy, absolutely!

Cathy
09/11/2007 04:33 PM

Thank you both! I look forward to trying the conserve. I do like the puree added as well, but want to taste the difference between the two.

I just ordered the wild strawberry essence from La Cuisine to add to it. Do you use it in the conserve as well, Hector?

I'll let you know how it goes!

Patrincia
09/11/2007 03:26 PM

I haven't tried the conserves yet. I do like the smooth texture and even color the strawberry and raspberry purees add to buttercream. I first added them to the neoclassic buttercream, which tasted wonderful, but the color was a little peachy becuase that buttercream is kind of yellowish. Then I added the purees to the whiter mousseline buttercream and found heaven... the color and flavor is amazing!

Hector
09/11/2007 03:00 PM

u r correct! I used the proportions for the Silk Meringue Buttercream. 1/2 cup conserve for 4 cups of buttercream (page 243). It worked wonderful with the mousseline buttercream. By the way, I do add the full amount of liquor, so this buttercream is thinner than without.

Patrincia
09/11/2007 02:43 PM

Hector - are you sure you mean Conserve? My copy says you can add 3/4 cup strawberry or Raspberry Puree into the mousseline buttercream recipe.

Hector
09/11/2007 02:02 PM

Cathy, I follow the amount indicated under in TCB. At the end of the MOusseline Buttercream recipe it tells you how much conserve to use.

The strawberry conserve comes out lumpy, almost with whole strawberries. It is up to you if you want to puree it or run it thru a strainer, prior to canning, or at the time of mixing with the buttercream.

I LOVE the Mousseline Buttercream with any Cordon Rose conserve!

Cathy
09/11/2007 10:52 AM

Hector, When you use Cordon Rose Conserves (I'm going to try the strawberry) to mix into the buttercream (Mousseline), how much do you mix in?

Also, in the process of the conserves, do I puree at any time? Or are the conserves lumpy thus making the buttercream with conserves lumpy? (Actually I like texture!) This will be my first time canning/with conserves--so all of it is completely new. Have been reading everything written here for tips!

Patrincia
09/11/2007 08:40 AM

Yvonne - yes you can decorate with the mousseline buttercream. You can find the recipe in The Cake Bible by Rose Levy Beranbaum (check your local library).

Hector - I'm going to guess 'Mousseline Buttercream' is Rose's way of dressing up the words 'Italian Meringue Buttercream'. (am I right?)

yvonne arencibia
09/11/2007 06:40 AM

Would you pls. give me the mousseline buttercream recipe, can I decorate the cake with this cream?.

Hector
09/11/2007 04:31 AM

Oh Elicia, I've just read a bit behind and realize you now LOVE the mousseline with raspberry!

Hector
09/11/2007 04:29 AM

Rose, are you the inventor of Mousseline Buttercream? What is the history of this name?

Elicia, YOU NEED to try this buttercream with Cordon Rose Raspberry Conserve, or the Dark Chocolate variation. These ARE THE BEST! I've just came back from a last minute gathering at a local restaurant, and I brough a small wreath of my rose 'cupcakes' that I had frozen. What a easy way to get attention!

Elicia
09/10/2007 10:48 PM

Oh Rose, fruit buttercreams are unheard of here, although many wld do fruit whipped cream! Local buttercreams are basically sweet - vanilla, choc, coffee, pink (strawberry without strawberry flavour!) - and the choc and coffee uses artificial flavourings with a terrible aftertaste! The commercial buttercreams are also greasy (too much shortening?)!

I have a hot and humid kitchen but have never experienced any problems with mousseline. Your instructions are perfect to a tee - and I have to say that beating the butter at the beginning helps! Rebeating is also so easy unlike some other recipes that I have which do not retain the same consistency after thawing!

Even when sitting at room temp, the mousseline holds it's shape very well despite gg very soft. And, it's just the right amt of sweetness.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/10/2007 10:40 PM

see why the new book is going to be called "rose's heavenly cakes"? heavenly is the word that best describes delicious desserts.
it's so gratifying to see all these ppl making mousseline when in the past i got notes about how it didn't work and curdled! it just killed me bc i knew how wonderful it was and how temperature sensitive and tempormental it could be.

Elicia
09/10/2007 10:07 PM

Oh Hector, I seem to just hit a stroke of business luck! I've always gotten some requests far and between, and mostly from friends and ex-colleagues. Somehow, it seems to have built-up a bit lately - maybe thks to the 'complimentary' cakes I made now and then for my hubby's clients and my friends!

Am particularly excited abt this one project that requires cupcakes for a particular product launch. I'm working on the flavours and look of the cupcakes to match the concept of the product (it's a fragrance) - the customer was quite impressed with the suggestions. The cakes will be given to prominent people from the press and that may be really good for me!

I also realised I have to revise my pricing - have been charging customers way too little compared to other homebakers.

And Hector, I've been really inspired by your insistence of using natural flavours, and I've decided to join the boat - will make that a sell-point for my cakes, ie to use natural flavours and colouring wherever possible.

And Rose, I just made another batch of mousseline flavoured with raspberry conserve and GM - hmmm... just so heavenly! Thks for the great recipes - buttercream never tasted better! Also, I think mousseline is just so easy to whip up compared to some other more complex recipes I have!

Elicia
09/10/2007 09:57 PM

Well, the average bakeries here all have that identical flavour in their cakes, and anyone who loves cakes shld be able to tell. It's a lot harder though, to tell when tasting cakes from more upmarket bakeries. I think sometimes we also think we can tell the diff but we may have been swayed by the image of the bakery rather than the taste of the product (eg a bakery boasting 'homebaked' goodness may seem more 'homebaked'!) - especially if the marketing and packaging of the product seems all rustic and homey!

Hector
09/10/2007 04:40 PM

In college, I never finished my double major in Photography because I got flunked from junior portfolio review. I put so much effort to put together my portfolio, and it was totally original and creative, but the reviewers said “too much techniques and technology, but too little or none subject.” This was about 1 decade ago. I did accomplish one thing: even today everyone at that college remembers my portfolio!

Patrincia, often I wouln't be able to tell what is home-scratch from commercial, by just looking or tasting a cake with emulsifiers. There are a few commercial bakeries out there that do scratch, and a few home bakes out there who bake with commercial batters! At one point, I made a cake by buying all the layers cakes already made, shipped frozen from some factory! I do now bake and make everything from scratch, but I do use a lot of freezing!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/10/2007 01:48 PM

and some people THINK they can tell and are mistaken! i'll always remember an art teacher looking at my portfolio and accusing me of "copying." i told her which i had indeed copied and which came out of my imagination and she didn't believe me!

Patrincia
09/10/2007 01:39 PM

Hi Juliana - sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you liked the taste of cakes made with emulsifiers/stabilizers because of the following statement:

"Cakes that are baked with these stabilizers have small and even crumb, and are soft and spongy.... ...Also, they don't seem to have a bitter aftertaste as compared to those from cake mixes..."

Personally, I think cake mixes that contain stabilizers have an inferior crumb to the scratch recipes from the cake bible, which do not contain stabilizers.

So I guess my answer to your questions remains the same - some people can tell and some cannot.

Juliana
09/10/2007 01:27 PM

Patrincia, I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I like the taste of cakes baked with emulsifiers.

Not all stabilizer/emulsifier-based cakes have a bitter aftertaste, and perhaps with time, one really good stabilizer/emulsifier will be invented (or has already been invented?) that will be able to impress die-hard scratch/homemade-cake fans as much as Cobasan has done for cream users.

The only thing that appeals to me for stabilizer-based cakes is the appearance. Afterall, they are designed to make the cake look, feel, and keep perfect --- the smooth, even crumb and the soft texture and the longer shelf-life. Also, as Elicia has mentioned, which I totally agree, anyone can make a perfect cake using these because they make the batter very stable, and hence, difficult to deflate. It's like a cheat ingredient for successful baking. You can literally let your batter wait to be baked.

By the way, some people may argue that baking powder and baking soda are also cheat ingredients and cakes made with them are not totally scratch cakes. Just like for bitter-tasting emulsifiers, aluminium-based baking powders do have a distinctive taste, and now that non aluminium-based baking powders have emerged, one day the non bitter-tasting emulsifier might just be an essential tool in the home baker’s kitchen.

I agree that homemade cakes are better, but it's not just the taste that makes me say that, afterall not all emulsified cakes taste bitter.

I can't talk about freshness either because both commercial cakes and homemade cakes can be stored in the freezer before frosting. The TCB mentions that some unfrosted cakes can be stored in the freezer for as long as 2 months.

I learnt how to bake home-made cakes before I knew cake mixes existed. To me, I appreciate the effort that goes into making a homemade cake. It makes the gift of the cake more meaningful.

Without a stabilizer, homemade cake batters are more fragile, so we need to pay attention to the mixing and the folding of the ingredients. So a person who gives a not-so-perfect homemade cake would still have put a lot of heart and soul into making it.

But still, my question is, can we always tell if a cake is homemade or not? Hector and Elicia, since you have tasted different types of emulsifier-based cakes before, and since Elicia has successfully made 1" sponges with smooth, even crumb, can you both tell if a perfectly-made cake is homemade or not? I wonder how the host of the show did.

Hector
09/10/2007 01:20 PM

Elicia, you go! sounds like you have a great business.

Elicia
09/09/2007 10:28 PM

The ovalette/sponge emulsifier does produce a very fine-grained, smooth sponge/genoise. I have been trying to emulate it without the emulsifier, and have come close only when the genoise is baked in a 1" sheet, with very little flour and a combination of whole eggs and yolks. There is a sense of satisfaction I guess!

Commercial bakeries use it because just abt anyone can mix the batter as it will not deflate whatsoever! I've managed to achieve 100% success with genoise containing lots of egg yolks and butter (means no deflating whatsoever) by using Rose's methods - a large balloon whisk (in this case, my Kenwood mixer whisk) and melted clarified butter kept slightly warm.

Same goes for choc emulco - it produces a dark and very moist choc cake that's difficult to emulate. This one, however, has a bitter aftertaste in my opinion. I can get close results by combining cocoa powder and choc in the recipe - close and still testing...

I personally refuse to use these items as I want my cakes to have a homebaked character! To me, that's a sell-point when I promote my cakes to my customers! They know it will taste decidedly homemade, delicious, and have to be eaten fresh!

If I'm the customer buying from a homebaker, I don't expect the cakes to taste exactly like those from the bakeries, rather the cakes shld remind me somewhat of the old-fashioned cakes from my grandmom's kitchen!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/09/2007 09:09 PM

well said hector!

Hector
09/09/2007 08:12 PM

Juliana, I think I know what you mean. I have these German friends who knows a lot about everything and about foods and pastries. One is a biochemist. I present them my best cakes and they say in between bites: add a drop of emulsifier to make the crumb "smooth" or "completelly perfect."

My personal taste is in favor with cakes w/o emulsifiers. Not only the bitter aftertaste, but I have learned to appreciate and enjoy chewing on the imperfections of a "crafted cake" done w/o emulsifiers by an artisan baker.

I have enjoyed wonderful and perhaps even superior commercial/emulsified cakes out there. But, one plus, when making pastries in small scale at home, are the other ingredients you add to your cakes can be better controlled and selected, for example using higher quality frostings, fruits from the season, well made jams, creams, etc.

One thing I tell you, when I taste commercially done chocolate cakes, nothing tops TBB's Triple Chocolate Cake. Chocolate cakes are very popular, and indeed chocolate is one of those ingredients were a bitter aftertaste can be desired (bitter chocolate) but often highly damaged with the addition of emulsifiers or other chemicals commonly used on chocolate baking.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/09/2007 05:25 PM

engineers at proctor and gamble won patent awards for their emulsifiers so believe me if there were some that didn't have that offensive flavor they would have come up with them!
who knows what the future will bring but all i can tell you is that for now i have yet to discover such an animal!
actually that's not entirely true bc cobasan which i love so much for heavy cream is a stabilizer/emulsifier (i think the terms are synonomous) and gives no taste to the cream. but for cakes i don't know of any such thing.

Patrincia
09/09/2007 03:18 PM

I think some people will be able to tell the difference while others won't. Some people have a more developed "palette", or more sensitive taste buds, and they can easily taste things that others cannot.

If you don't mind the flavor of a cake made with the kind of stabilizers you mentioned, then great, but know that someone else's taste buds may not agree with yours. I know a few cake decorators who think cake mixes and shortening based frostings taste fabulous, while I think they taste absolutely disgusting! So I guess it all boils down to choosing what tastes good to you.

Juliana
09/09/2007 02:05 PM

Why would I want to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier one?

Because I wanted to compare 2 different scratch recipes, one made with emulsifiers, and one without. And I am not talking about comparing a scratch with a cake mix. I know what cake mixes taste like and, yes, Hector, I do bake cakes from scratch, including the cakes from TCB.

I wanted to know if I could tell whether all cakes that are good in appearance and taste are made with emulsifiers or not. Since Rose has mentioned that the bitter aftertaste is contributed by the emulsifier, then it doesn’t matter whether it is a scratch cake or from a cake mix.

Rose, can I ask if a cake stabilizer is actually an emulsifier, or if it has emulsifiers in it? In my country, and in several Asian countries, we can find cake stabilizers like “ovalette” or “SP stabilizer” in bakery supply stores. These are easily available to the public. Some people call them emulsifiers. That's why I am confused about whether they are emulsifiers at all or whether they have some emulsifiers in them. My questions from the previous entries were based on my confusion with these items. Could someone have come up with something that works like an emulsifier, but doesn’t have the bitter aftertaste? If these are totally unrelated to emulsifiers, then my questions in the previous entries can be ignored.

Cakes that are baked with these stabilizers have small and even crumb, and are soft and spongy. They have a longer shelf-life than ordinary cakes, especially good in a humid country like mine. Also, they don't seem to have a bitter aftertaste as compared to those from cake mixes. Otherwise, they wouldn't be so popular with the customers in bakeries and hotels.

You can say that the recipe is a scratch recipe because all ingredients are from scratch. We need to mix plain or cake flour, eggs, liquid, fat, sugar, etc.... like in a scratch recipe.
The percentage of stabilizer used is about 2% of the flour weight (if I remember correctly) and the percentage of the other ingredients used would be adjusted to factor-in the stabilizer.

Some time back, I watched a particular show on tv. Someone had made a cake for the host of the show and when the host tasted the cake, she could tell if it was home-made or not. I guess home-made cakes taste different from commercially-made cakes, but in what way? Afterall, commercially baked cakes are also made from scratch.

I suppose it must be related to this stabilizer thing. So if we have a well-made home-made cake (even crumb, soft, spongy, etc) and a commercially-made one, how do we tell the difference?

Andrea
09/07/2007 12:33 AM

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I converted all my recipes from volume to weight several months ago, and it has worked out very well for me. The conversion tables were the primary thing that drew me to the Cake Bible, and I immediately fell in love with this book. It has not left my counter since I got it, as I read through it daily.

I already made the Chocolate Mayonaise Cake several weeks ago, and I know that every other cake I attempt will come out perfectly as well.

I am definitely going to try the Golden Luxury Butter Cake in the next week, but I have one concern. I have been unable to find REAL White Chocolate. I keep finding the baker's white chocolate, which does not list cocoa butter as an ingredient. Should I be looking on the candy aisle instead of the baking section?

My true reluctance in letting go of the other recipe is that it is the only yellow cake I have ever made that my husband liked, and only with the pudding added (I made it once without the pudding, and he knew as soon as he tasted it). BTW, The pudding that I have been adding is the ready-to-eat kind you buy in the refrigerated section. It wasn't my first choice, but it made it easier to just use what I needed and not waste anything. Actually, when I first started trying to find out how to adjust my recipe "fix" it to his liking, I called some friends who went to culinary school. I thought that since pudding is primarily eggs, milk/cream, sugar and vanilla, they could suggest how much to adust these ingredients since they are already part of the recipe, but none of them seemed to know anything about scratch baking and it was they who told me to add the 6 oz cup of Jello pudding. In any case, it seems that this recipe is being retired in favor of more reliable recipes.

Oh, and Elicia, I love the Wilton's Cake Release. I used the wilton palm tree cake pan for that Choc Mayo Cake, and it came out beautifully, and so smoothe that I could see exactly where the lines were supposed to go for the decorations. Thank you for the encouragement to try this recipe, and the advice about the eggs is very helpful.

Elicia
09/06/2007 10:05 PM

Hi Andrea, All I can say is that the Golden Luxe Butter Cake was a real success for the 3D bear. I didn't use all yolks because Rose did advise that 3D cakes take longer to bake and you will have a darker crumb with yolks. I simply substituted 1 egg for every 2 yolks - you won't have a major problem with this substitution as the white choc tends to 'emulsify' the ingredients - the result is a lovely moist n fine crumb that looks dense but simply melts in the mouth!

Although I iced the cake with buttercream, I still brushed the cake with lemon juice laced syrup - the lemon brings out the unique flavour of the cake and cuts the sweetness a little.

As advised abv, do remember to wrap the pan with wet kitchen towels, shaping around the whole pan with foil - if not, the narrow areas (eg bear ears) will have a thick crust! I use Wilton's Cake Release to prep the pan - best ever release and crumb - I almost didn't want to frost the cake as it was so perfect!

I strongly urge you to try it!

nushera
09/06/2007 09:05 PM

Andrea, while following the 2-step method, r u weighing the ingredients or measuring by volume only? i faced the same problem as yours(partly soggy just above 1cm above the bottom; but rightly fluffy below and above that portion). what i have found is recipe of foam-type cake is more 'forgiving' than that of butter-cakes. you must weigh the ingredients to get them perfectly done. Hope this helps.
one more thing, pls start trying Rose's recipes (i'm sure your preference will GREET Rose's fav yellow cake which uses sour cream as well as butter and the cake's texture is unique: tender n fluffy but moist too)- incorporating pudding-mix will become a pre-rose chapter in yr baking history!

Patrincia
09/06/2007 08:39 PM

Juliana - I think you will find the differnces between a cake mix and a scratch recipe like one of Rose's are like night and day. Mixes definitely have a chemical flavor and bitter aftertaste, and I find they are not tender, but rather rubbery with rather large and uneven air holes. However, Rose's recipes are buttery sweet with no negative aftertaste, they have an excellent "fine" crumb with very small air holes, and they are melt in your mouth tender.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/06/2007 05:19 PM

juliana, as i said, the bitter taste comes from the emulsifiers. if there are also preservatives they will contribute even more bitter taste.
these emusifiers are not available to the public so if you want to do a comparison, as i suggested: buy a cake mix, mix it, bake it, bake a cake of a similar type from scratch and then look at the crumb with a magnifier and taste them to compare them.

Hector
09/06/2007 03:14 PM

This topic comes handy! I've been asked to make a Dora The Explorer cake. Found this version, using the 3D panda bear, looks pretty good, like a baby Dora, perfect as this is a 1 year old birthday party, for 100 people (not 1000...) I will bake "Elicia's" Golden Luxury Butter cake.

HOWEVER, I am NOT looking forward to use all that food coloring on the Mousseline Buttercream, so that is still up for discussion. On the extreme end, I feel if you are going to make edible art (lots of hard cakes, 3d sculpting, fondant, sugar candy, and royal icing) you might as well just use the real plastic doll instead? I do admire the work of the sugar artist making edible art; it is a credit hard earned and can't be taken away even if not too edible.

Rozanne
09/06/2007 02:52 PM

Andrea, I have baked several 3D cakes using Rose's recipes from the Cake Bible and they have turned out really well. I have used the Chocolate Fudge cake (pg 60) and I know Elicia (a fellow blogger) has succesfully baked 3D cakes using Rose's Golden Luxury Butter cake (pg 48). Just remember to wrap the cake pans in wet paper towels and then in foil to prevent the sides of the cake from overbaking.
Yes, you can still use syrup if you are using buttercream to ice the cake.
Rozanne

Matthew
09/06/2007 02:49 PM

Andrea,
It was my impression that people who add pudding to cake do not make the pudding separately and stir it in, but rather combine the two dry mixes together. I can't say for sure because I've never tried it, but you might look around for recipes and see how this is handled. You should also search the blog for postings from Elicia on her 3D bear cake using Rose's recipes.

Andrea
09/06/2007 02:04 PM

the pudding idea came about because I was using a "Stand Up Teddy Bear" Cake Pan and I needed a denser cake. The instructions suggested using a "Pudding in the Mix" cake mix, but since I do scratch cakes only, and my husband was pushing me to add it, I did. He is so picky, and he really likes the way it comes out. No one else has noticed the undercooked layer, but it bothers me.

If I ditch the pudding and use syrup instead, it will not have the effect that he is looking for, nor will it be dense enough to use in the deeper cake pans, though I could use that for cakes that are not intended for him. Can you still do syrup if you are using buttercream to ice and decorate?

Also, in terms of changing the mixing method to the two-step, I made the same cake without the pudding, and it came out perfectly. I have also made several cinnamon coffee cakes with the converted mixing method, and they have come out fine, so I do not think the mixing is the primary issue, unless it is that I am underbeating???

I will definetly be trying many of the cakes in the Cake Bible, and will probably eventually abandon the other recipe in favor of those in the book.

Hector
09/06/2007 01:32 PM

Juliana, why would you want to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier recipe?

Yes, the crumb on an emulsifier recipe is different than a scratch one. The cake box / emulsifier recipes have a crumb that I call it "boring." It is even, plain, smooth, plastic, artificial, almost like biting into something non-living or into cake made of something synthetic?

It would be a hard comparison to do emulsifier vs scratch. The crumb from any type of cake is unique on its own, each different. There are many types of scratch cakes, each has its own crumb characteristics.

I encourage you to bake from scratch, and I hope you will agree that cakes from scratch to taste and feel better!

Hector
09/06/2007 01:23 PM

Andrea, I know you will not want to hear this, but I strongly encourage you to try one of Cake Bible's recipes! It is somehow confusing to use another recipe with the technique in Cake Bible. The chemical and physical reactions between the ingredients is well calculated in Cake Bible: sugar, flour, fats, liquid, you can't just use a recipe but change the mixing method and expect well results.

If I may, for your original recipe, to make it more moist, try adding syrup after baking it.

Andrea
09/06/2007 01:14 PM

I have a classic yellow (or white) cake recipe that I have been using for several years, and as it was the first one to ever work for me, and everyone I have made if for loves it, I am very reluctant to abandon it permanently for one of the great recipes in the Cake Bible. The problem with the cake is this... When I first made it, my husband suggested that it could be a bit moister and insisted that I add pudding into my batter. After reading everything I could find on this topic, which really didn't say much, I decided to just add a 6 oz cup of the prepared vanilla pudding to my recipe while I continued to try to figure it out. I would add it to the butter and sugar after they were creamed and before the dry ingredients and milk. This worked well, making the cake both moist and firm enough to use in some deeper shaped cake pans. Then I read about the 2 step method in the Cake Bible and decided to convert this recipe. The problem now is that there is a layer of undercooked batter just about a half inch from the bottom of the cake, and I think it is from this addition (though I could be wrong). I don't really know when to add the "extra" ingredient in the two step process. Right now I am wisking it in with the liquid before I add it to the dry ingredients. Perhaps a better question would be what I could use instead of the pudding that will give the same effect. I am not professionally trained, completely self-taught in the baking and decorating, and no one I know bakes except for those boxed mixes that I really dislike.

Any help is much appreciated.

Juliana Teo
09/06/2007 12:22 PM

But cake mixes don't usually just contain emulsifiers. They also have preservatives which may cause the bitter aftertaste, right?

Apart from taste, does the crumb look different?

I am curious to do a comparison myself but the problem is that I don't know how to convert a scratch recipe into an emulsifier one or vice versa.
Rose, can you help?
Thanks.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
09/05/2007 01:39 PM

all you need to do is make a cake mix and a scratch cake and you'll know first hand that the one with emulsifiers has a bitter aftertaste.

Juliana
09/04/2007 11:52 AM

Does anyone know how to tell the difference (by looking and by tasting) between a cake that is made with emulsifiers and one that is not made with emulsifiers?

Patrincia
09/03/2007 11:18 AM

Hi Yvonne - your cake is definitely under baked. If your cake is browning too much before it's done baking try lowering your oven temp 25F, and extend the baking time. You might also try lowering your baking rack too.

Yvonne Arencibia
09/02/2007 09:36 PM

I would like to have your help. When I make a rum cake I always use selfrising flour, I follow the instruccions, and the cake raise pretty well, as soon I am taking from the oven it sank in the middle, or if I use a tookpick to see if is done, is like a souffle, sank inmediatly. Thank in advance.

Cathy
08/29/2007 01:02 PM

Thank you all so much. You have helped me tremendously as I think of this next creation. So many great ideas and suggestions....thank you!

Su Ching
08/28/2007 10:40 PM

Hi Cathy, just to share a bit from my experience, and whatever I can remember from Rose's book. Marzipan is usually put on the cake which has been frosted with (thin layer) buttercream, a thin smear of jam is put on, then the fondant is layed on top of it, because fondant doesn't stick very nicely to buttercream. This also helps the fondant achieve a more smooth, even look. In humid climates like mine here it seems to help fondant not to 'melt' from direct contact with moist cake or buttercream, so it can be made a little thinner.

To my feeling, the somewhat hardened sugar paste covering a cake seems much more unpleasant than fondant, which is at least chewy. I've tried adding lemon oil and white chocolate (inspired by Rose's dark chocolate fondant), which gives it a different dimension rather than simply 'sugar sugar sugar'. I suppose you could try playing around with different flavours like to that achieve something more tasty.

I've also tried covering a cake only with coloured marzipan and skipping fondant totally. But I found it harder to achieve a smooth look because it is less malleable than fondant (which goes around odd curves so well because it changes shape so nicely!), but maybe I had it too thin then. If it was a thicker maybe it would be nicer? Anyone with other comments?

About blue and red tongues, haha that's so funny... Hector is the expert on natural colouring that won't be so hideous! I think he's mentioned beets for red? Perhaps blueberries for blue?

Elicia
08/28/2007 10:27 PM

Pistachio paste will have a nice green hue - though not dark green.

If you have to use fondant, try flavouring them with those concentrated flavourings - they have everything from champagne, raspberry to creme de menthe! Or use Rose's recipe of replacing the water with orange flower water or rosewater - that provides a nice subtle flavour as well.

I also prefer not to wrap the cake with fondant - just use the sugar pastes for small decorative items. Buttercream and choc glazes are the best options to cover a non-refrigerated cake. Check out Rose's Creme Ivoire - a wonderful ivory white choc glaze/buttercream that is quite firm and provides a smooth surface for decorative work. Must use high quality white choc though!

nushera
08/28/2007 05:47 PM

Hector- for green tint: how abt the kiwi fruit, lime zest...

Cathy
08/28/2007 03:54 PM

Thank you, Hector. I knew I could count on you for some ideas apart from paste. :)

I really dislike fondant and never put it on my cakes b/c I have never found one that tastes good. I do use sugar dough for flowers and miniatures. I might need to cover a cake with something of the sort.

Can anyone tell me the different functions sugar dough/gumpaste, fondant and marzipan take?

I know sugar dough dries hard, but when it is put on a frosted cake while still pliable, it doesn't seem to get too hard. Would this work to cover an entire cake?

I am creating a sculpted flag and various others to make a big picture...and I don't want to give people blue & red tongues. :)

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with experience on these.

Hector
08/28/2007 01:38 PM

Cathy, in my experience, liquors don't have much tint. And I almost never use color paste.

Think of a fruit or vegetable that is very very green, run it thru a fruit juicer. Then reduce the liquid with some sugar (almost like making a jelly). I would try spinach, it is very green, and reduced with sugar will taste great! For red, you can use beats. For orange you can use carrots. Green grapas may do, too, as these reduce well into a jelly.

Cathy
08/28/2007 12:08 PM

I am trying to tint the Mousseline Buttercream a green w/o a lot of color paste. How would you do this?

I saw some green apple liquor in the store the other day? Any thoughts?

Cathy
08/28/2007 12:03 PM

Thank you Nushera and Patricia! I love the flower nail idea--it is hard to imagine that little flower nail would do such great things! :)

nushera
08/26/2007 07:32 PM

thank you, Patrincia. you are always a great source of ideas n suggestions.

Patrincia
08/26/2007 07:23 PM

Oh hi Nushera! I've known about the waxed paper technique (and the tape on the back of the ribbon technique too - yuck). I haven't tried coating the ribbon with the waxed paper myself, but from what I've read, some say it works great while others say there is still some grease absorbed along the edges of the ribbon or the waxed paper only works for a short time before it breaks down. I guess I'll have to give it a try on a family cake one of these days. I think the best suggestion I've seen so far is to coat the ribbon with a flavorless oil and then blot away the excess before placing it on the cake. Also, making "ribbons" out of colored fondant seems to be another good option.

By the way, great tip about the flower nail - I had completely forgotten all about that one.

nushera
08/26/2007 07:04 PM

Veronica- thanks a lot.

Cathy- u can try using a flower-nail(metal one), sprayed and flat-side-down, in the middle of the batter. it works amazingly, sp in butter cakes. u will get the middle and the sides done nearly at the same time!

Patrincia- i've just read something on using ribbons in decorating iced cakes that i want to share with u. to prevent the ribbon from picking up grease from the cake and become discolored, the back of the ribbon can be lined with waxed paper. to do this, use a warm iron to bond the paper to the back of the ribbon. isnt it easy?

Cathy
08/25/2007 01:43 PM

Thanks Patricia. I love those baking strips.

Patrincia
08/25/2007 12:49 PM

Not really - but I wouldn't try baking a cake that large without using insulated baking strips around the pan (be sure to soak them very well first). Also, the proper oven temperature is so important - if you don't already have one, a good oven thermometer is a must!

Cathy
08/25/2007 12:48 AM

Thank you, Patricia. I so appreciate it! When you did it without, did you have to do anything special?

Patrincia
08/24/2007 09:05 PM

Hi Cathy - yes, the baking core and heating core are the same. I think I've read that heating cores should be used for cakes 12" in diameter or larger, but I've successfully baked up to a 14" cake without using one.

You start by preparing the heating core the same way you prepare the cake pan, fill the cake pan with batter, put the heating core in the middle with the open end up, fill the core with enough batter to fill the core to the same height as the batter in the pan, then bake as usual. When done, remove the little cake from the core and pop it into the hole in your cake.

Cathy
08/24/2007 06:51 PM

Is there a rule-of-thumb concerning when to use a baking core? Is this the same as a heating core (CB p. 454)?

Is it used in larger cakes to make sure baking is even? If so, how large? 12"? 14"??

Veronica
08/24/2007 04:35 AM

Hi Nushera. I can't say I've had that happen to me (the colour spreading). All I do is I colour a small amount of buttercream with wilton icing colour. I coat the inside of the piping bag with thin coat of the coloured buttercream and then fill the middle of the piping bag with the white buttercream. Star nozzle on the piping bag and your off. Simple and quick to do but I think it looks really pretty.

nushera
08/24/2007 03:30 AM

Veronica, your cakes are lovely and cute. could u pls tell me abt the piping trick in Lidya7-Bee cake - how did you get the edges of the rosettes(or swirls?) distinctly tinted? i have tried it but it spreads like tie-dye!

Veronica
08/24/2007 02:47 AM

Thanks for looking and sharing Hector. I most certainly have tonnes to learn, but that's the fun of it. The dirty plates usually occurs when there is a knock on the door or there is someone tugging at me wanting something. So in the end I run out of time or I forget. The strawberry maria I did with a frozen wild berry mix. I couldn't get fresh or frozen strawberries when I did the cake. The recipy also asks for a Genoise au chocolat, but I wasn't brave enough to attempt it so I ended up doing the chocolate torte on pg 56. I ended up with puree left over and so I drizzled it over the cake. It was delicious. With every cake I do I always learn something for next time.

Hector
08/24/2007 02:13 AM

Veronica, your cakes look delicious and I am certain your family were very happy. Your bees are perfect!

There are a few tricks you can still learn, feel free to ask, and I will share all my secrets (which are far from everything and all the knowledge we pull together on this blog!)

One I can share with you is that to keep your cake platters clean, don't forget to use strips of parchment, foil, or plastic wrap when frosting, snd then slipping them out when done. small suggestion from watching one of your 'dirty plates' buy I think you may just have forgotten since most of your other cakes look clean!

You have inspired me with Strawberry Maria. "Your" version really intrigued me until I've read your comments on what it was. I have always wanted to do it, but it will need to wait since I am about 2.5 cakes behind on my schedule!

Good luck with your son's funny video show entry!

Veronica
08/23/2007 11:15 PM

Thank you all so much for looking and your comments. I only wish I'd captured my son with the bee on my video camera and sent it to the funny video show. Who knows!

Patrincia
08/23/2007 11:31 AM

Veronice - lovely cakes. I love the bee story too (sooo cute!). One word of caution if you should choose to make the buttercream with margarine - it's pretty hight in salt compared to unsalted butter, so maybe check the sodium content of a few differnt brands first. Also, stick margarine is slightly firmer than the tub variety.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/23/2007 08:46 AM

if i don't stop looking at this blog my husband is goingn to leave on vacation without me! but i jsut have to say veronica that your bee story is hilarious and your cakes are adorable.

and cathy--keep up the good work!

Elicia
08/22/2007 11:55 PM

Cathy, your cakes are lovely and so thematic! Basketweaves are tedious to pipe... I salute your patience!

And Veronica - those are some pretty and creative cakes! Keep going!

Veronica
08/22/2007 10:58 PM

Tracey I can vouch for Su Ching's suggestion of using margarine for making buttercream instead of butter. I have made buttercream with both butter and margarine. The butter one is definately harder in consistency. The margarine one is softer. My daughter loves the buttercream with margarine so I always do her birthday cakes with it. Please have a look at the cake I make for her birthday. I made the bees from the cake bible. I tried bees but I think they came out more like bumble bees 51 in total. I think they looked real enough because my 2 yo son took one and threw it on the floor and stomped on it. He'd been stung before. I'd love everyone's opinion. Please be gentle with me though I'm merely an enthusiastic amateur who loves making cakes for family. Here's the link to my space. http://z1x2c3v4b5n6m7.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!4E90CD9DF0179897!416&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum

Patrincia
08/22/2007 07:30 PM

Yes, I have to admit I was beaming the entire day (I was so relieved that it turned out so well - it was my first wedding cake).

Cathy
08/22/2007 06:24 PM

It looks fantastic too, Patricia. Very nice! How fun to hear everyone go on over it!

Patrincia
08/22/2007 02:29 PM

Thanks Theresa!

Hi Cathy - The chocolate buttercream is quite a bit lighter in color than the ganache. I used semisweet chocolate for the ganache on the wedding cake shown in the link above. If dark is what you're after, go for the ganache (and it's way easier to make than buttercream too). By the way, the entire reception hall was completely filled with the aroma of chocolate (you should have heard the gasps as people walked through the doors! - even the chef came out of the kitchen to see what all the fuss was about).

Theresa
08/22/2007 01:23 PM

Dang - my links never work! Try this one: http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/03/i_received_this_lovely_not.html

Theresa
08/22/2007 01:21 PM

Cathy, check out Patrincia's wedding cake with ganache frosting! www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/03/i_received_this_lovely_not.html

Cathy
08/22/2007 12:54 PM

Thank you, Rose. That saves me quite a bit of time from experimenting!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/22/2007 12:15 PM

cathy, if you want a dark choc. frosting ganache is it. the only way to make choc. buttercream that dark would be paste food color. i wouldn't go there!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/22/2007 07:33 AM

veronica, i was offered the option of 'buttered' popcorn at the movies. with great excitement i asked "is it actually butter?" the girl asked her supervisor and came back with: "soy oil"! to which i said "then why don't you call it 'oiled popcorn.'(i'm sure it's bc no one would want it then)

Su Ching
08/22/2007 04:28 AM

Hi Tracey, I thought what a challenge you have on your hands! Out of curiosity I did a search and found this link: http://www.vegan-food.net/recipe/356/Chocolate-Cake-with-Chocolate-Icing/
The icing uses margarine and carob, which are all from plants. I suppose you could also try substituting butter with margarine in other recipes?
There were other sites that talked about using vegan cream cheese which is essentially firm silken tofu blended with other stuff to flavour it, it doesn't sound like a very firm mixture for piping but I guess you could always try it for fun? You never know what you could get! All the best.

Veronica
08/22/2007 12:22 AM

Tracey. I have to say I had a bit of a chuckle when you said "no butter buttercream". The only thing I can think of is Free Range Cows. Here in OZ we call it free range you refer to it as organic. In your post you said the person wanting the vegan cake didn't mind organic eggs. How about organic butter. Not sure if there is such a thing. In my mind a happy free roaming cow would produce organic milk to make organic butter. Perhaps you can be the one to come up with a fabulous recipy for no butter buttercream. You'll have to rename it of course, you can't call it buttercream if it doesn't contain butter. I have had to cater for a vegan an it is difficult because there is a lot they don't eat. Good luck

Cathy
08/21/2007 09:36 PM

Rose,

Your ganache's are wonderful, but I am wondering if there is a way to make your chocolate buttercream so that it ends up looking very dark. Is there a way I can use the Special Dark Cocoa? When I tried melted bittersweet at one point, it still was pretty light.

Cathy
08/21/2007 07:15 PM

Hector, thank you for your encouragement. Yes, it was all Mousseline--the crumb coat was Mousseline with Raspberry liquor so I was able to boost the raspberry flavor of the cake (the ras liquor also added in a wash for the All am choc cake). It wasn't too overpowering.

I made the head of the bassinet by carving 2 small almost square layers of the choc cake, then 4 arches from the four corners of a 9" round with raspberry mousseline filling in between. The arches sat up on top of the squares laterally and were stabilized with straws.

I think I might try stacking all the layers horizontally next time, however and carving the arches at the top next time. It will make the cut pieces look nicer when served.

I have to tell you...I just got word about 2 orders for parties--one with a congressman attending. Both cakes need to feed about 80-85 people. I am shaking in my boots with fear and excitement combined!

I was just adding it up....I'm thinking about some suggestions...if the cake is the main dessert, I should probably be more liberal with the portions. So what about 12, 9, and 6 inch 3 layer cakes? I calculated that this would feed approx 80. What do you think? Any suggestions?

Also, I don't know how many of you make sugar dough flowers, but I want to offer this to them, as I have learned how to do them and love the look. I know everyone is in a different part of the country/world(!) here, but just to give me an idea....how much do you charge per flower or nosegay?

Tracey
08/21/2007 06:58 PM

I know it won't actually be vegan -- that was her label, not mine. "My daughter's vegan ... but eggs are OK if they're organic, or at least local! Just no dairy." Her concern is no milk or butter at all. Not a problem with the cake -- I have a great recipe for chocolate cake that happens to be dairy-free. But the frosting is my concern. I told them I'd experiment, but that I couldn't guarantee taste or appearance if they really want me to use Soy Garden! Crisco is a good idea; I'll ask her, and give that a test run, too. I guess I was hoping against all hope and logic that someone would have a fabulous no butter "buttercream" recipe! Thanks.

Hector
08/21/2007 06:34 PM

Cathy, your pool and bassinet look wonderful. How did you make the roof of the bassinet? Your icing consistency looks PERFECT, was all that mousseline buttercream? Did you use fondant for some of the props? I bet you the weave took hours to make, and I hope your customer appreciated that!

On a conventional home oven (w/o convection and with bottom heating), lowering or rising your oven rack has DRAMATIC effects on cake baking, as you can see. At the same oven temperature, for the same cake and pan, you will get 3 very different results when baking on the middle rack vs a rack higher vs a rack lower. Higher means hotter because hot air accumulates, this seems contradictory since the heat comes from below! There are other factors like heat from the oven walls, baking stones, etc.

When you mention 'crack on top a the last 5 minutes' was that a dome? or just a crack? If it is only a crack w/o a dome, then I would say you have achieved oven perfection. A crack w/o a dome is most likely not due to improper oven temperature.

You can't lower the temperature 'too' much, it will affect cake texture. I haven't proven this, but the rule that works for me is "use as high oven temperature as you can that would not dome your cake"

I don't think you will find all answers to your oven questions, the most answers you will find with practice on your own oven and with different types of cakes. Just remember the principles of oven placing and temperature. You need to bake many times the same cake and the same cake pan on the same oven to find what temperature and time to use. Also rack placement if the center rack is not available.

Matthew
08/21/2007 06:25 PM

Tracey,
Well, it won't be vegan if you use eggs. Are you sure the reason for omitting the butter is so that it will be vegan? I think from the discussion on Lori's project, the best most of us will be able to tell you is to try a test batch and see how it works. Crisco is vegan, so I suppose that is another route you could explore.

Tracey
08/21/2007 06:16 PM

Oops -- I'm sorry to be such a newbie -- I think I posted this in the wrong place!! (Below Rose's lovely deer photo)

*******

Hi, Rose, et al! I, like others have mentioned, am so excited to be able to "chat" with such a wonderful expert.

Has anyone made a vegan "buttercream"? Organic eggs are OK, but no butter. The woman who wants the cake assures me that something called "Soy Garden" is a great all-around vegan substitute for butter. But she's never actually used it for a frosting, or even to bake with, so it should be interesting. I'll be doing a tester cake for their baby shower next month, but they'd like to do the same for the wedding cake next year.

She wants a traditional cake (i.e., piped decorations), and I have no idea yet how a frosting made with butter substitute will spread and pipe. I searched for "vegan" and know Lori's making a vegan wedding cake, but couldn't find any details. Any thoughts?

Thank you ... and also for such a great resource! Tracey

Rozanne
08/21/2007 03:45 PM

Great job Cathy!

Cathy
08/21/2007 01:31 PM

Baking strips--yes. They're wonderful. Again, thanks for the tip about size. I am not too worried about height with a regular cake. But when I'm sculpting, I just want to make sure it doesn't get absurd(!) :)

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/21/2007 01:22 PM

sure bake a little longer and protect top with foil.

Patrincia
08/21/2007 11:42 AM

Oh Cathy, are you using baking strips to insulate your cake pans when they're in the oven?

Patrincia
08/21/2007 11:40 AM

Hi Cathy - I do mostly round layers, and depending on how much of a hurry I'm in, I might split (torte) the layers, or I might not. If I do decide to split the layers, I will use a thinner layer of buttercream between each.

Also, I don't worry too much about exact height of my finished cake as much as I worry about making sure the individual layers are all the same height. My cakes tend to be somewhere around 4 or 4 1/2 inches tall when finished.

Cathy
08/21/2007 11:08 AM

Thanks everyone, you are too kind!

Rose, thank you for clarifying. In the future, if I have to choose between the sides shrinking back a bit and a little wet or crumbs on the toothpick (both happening at the same time), should I just bake a few mins. longer with foil on top of the cake?

Patricia, that is actually what I ended up doing with the swim meet cake! 2 layers were 1 1/4 high, then I added a third 1/2 sculpted layer on top. It did look great-height-wise, and probably fed 28-30 people in the end.

When you make your two-layer cakes for a 9X13, you make 2-1 1/4 layers, right? You don't just split one layer making the layers 3/4 inch each...? I like more cake than that; otherwise the filling/buttercream seems to overwhelm it. But the serving size of approx 20 for a 9X13 would reflect 2-1 1/4 layers....?

Patrincia
08/21/2007 09:05 AM

Great job Cathy!!! I especially love your swim meet cake!

To address your 2" high cake issue - why don't you just stick to the 1 1/4" layers you've already perfected, but bake 3 of them? A 3-layer cake is a little more impressive looking when sliced :)

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/21/2007 07:16 AM

cathy, a cake baked in a 2 inch high pan doesn't result in a 2 inch high baked cake--usually 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches. if you did 4 times the rose factor that's what you should have gotten. if you did the 3.5 x the rose factor you would get the 1 1/4 inches that you did get so sounds right.

Theresa
08/21/2007 07:02 AM

Wow! Fantastic job on the bassinet, Cathy!

nushera
08/21/2007 01:37 AM

Oh Cathy, your cakes look wonderful! i am sure they are yummy as well- as they followed Rose's recipes. cant imagine you too get problems like cracked top or wet bottom in yr cakes...

Cathy
08/21/2007 12:27 AM

Oh I forgot! Here is the picture of the baby bassinet I did last week for a shower. Thank you for all your tips and advice about how to transport, etc!
http://letemeatcakebycathy.blogspot.com/2007/08/bassinet-for-baby.html

Cathy
08/21/2007 12:20 AM

Thank you, Patricia for the serving info. That seems reasonable.

I just finished a Swim Meet cake for a lady, and it turned out great! Here is the link if you want to see. http://letemeatcakebycathy.blogspot.com/2007/08/swim-meet.html

When I went to put it all together, however, I realized that my 2 9X13 All-Am Choc cakes did not rise to the needed 2 inches each, but instead were only 1 1/4 inches each. I weighed the batter in each to be the maximum amount per Rose's chart. I weighed everything, including baking powder precisely. And the cakes tasted fantastic--texture good too. Do you think I should just adjust the batter to be a bit more in order to achieve the height I need?

Also, Hector you have tried to help me on this recently....I had to bake another layer since I last wrote. Before I did, I lowered the top rack one more notch to place it in the somewhat-lower center of my oven. Then I watched very closely. (This is the cake in which I put more batter in than what Rose suggests to see if I could get it to the height of 2 inches.) It did not crack on top at all until the last 5 minutes. It was just starting to separate from the sides (9X13) prior to taking it out. When I checked with a toothpick, the bottom part of the toothpick was still a little wet. And the sides of the cake were done, if not a bit too much. What do you think? Should I try lowering the temp to 325 and baking a little longer? (My pans are not dark coated.) Should I just put foil over the top for the last 5 minutes in the future? What might you suggest?

Patrincia
08/20/2007 09:53 AM

Ruth - why don't you suggest the rum be added to the buttercream instead of sprinkled on the cake?

Shuang - if I were you I would only bake one layer at a time. Rose suggests pouring unbaked batter directly into a prepared pan and store it in the refrigerator until you can bake it. This method is preffered over storing the unbaked batter in the refrigerator in the mixing bowl.

Shuang
08/20/2007 08:39 AM

I have a bit of a problem. My oven in the apartment is very small. It's certainly not the standard US size. So I can't fit 2 cake pans to bake at the same time for those layered cakes. But that's the standard size oven here in Singapore. Do I have a way to work around it? Can I put one pan on the upper rack and one on the lower rack? Thanks.

Ruth
08/19/2007 01:55 PM

A friend wants me to make her wedding (of which I have made many), but wants the yellow cake sprinkled with rum. I do not want the cake to be soggy or the tiers will not hold up. Should I use a spray bottle and spray the rum on the cake? Drizzle the rum on layers with a spoon? What do you suggest?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/18/2007 08:49 AM

no! and also be careful to stay within the capacity of the scale.
hot atlanta? weirdly in hope it is 62 degrees inside the house--we had to turn on the furnace so what do you suppose i did at 8:00 this morning? start a baby no knead bread as turning on the oven will no longer be an endeavor in questionability!

Kyle
08/17/2007 05:46 PM

Rose, Would/should the tare funtion take the scale back to the first degree(1-50g for instance in your example) of accuracy. Greetings from HOT, HOT-lanta.
Kyle

Hector
08/17/2007 02:42 PM

OMG, Rose! thanks for the scale explanation!

Patrincia
08/17/2007 12:36 PM

By 8" cake I mean a two-layer cake.

Patrincia
08/17/2007 12:33 PM

Cathy - good quetion! You are right about the wedding cake portions being much smaller than typical dessert slices. The cake bible suggest an 8" cake can serve 35, but I would serve an 8" cake in my home to 12 people. So it seems reasonable to assume wedding cake portions are approx 3 times smaller than a standard non-wedding portions.

Cathy
08/17/2007 12:16 PM

Thanks Patricia for all your info and advice. Your answers were helpful and reassuring; I appreciate the time you took!

And Matthew--great news. I will look forward to launching into a genoise now!

Regarding serving sizes, I have seen Rose's chart for wedding serving sizes; however, I am wondering about non-wedding occasions. I don't want to be too skimpy with my serving sizes and wonder if there are standard servings per cup flour for regular events where the cake is the main dessert.

Matthew
08/17/2007 10:50 AM

Cathy,
I just wanted add that you don't need to wait for a stand mixer to make a g énoise, unless you're planning on making a huge batch. You can have success using a hand mixer.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/17/2007 10:18 AM

melanie, it's in the cake bible wedding cake chapter and to determine the difference in square shapes see the pan sizes in the equipment chapter and you will have the exact formula.

Theresa
08/17/2007 10:05 AM

Rose, that is fascinating. Thank you for this explanation. I have had the same thing happen and thought there was something wrong with my scale - now I know why!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/17/2007 09:41 AM

hector, about adding salt to things already in the bowl on the scale, it's important you, and everyone else, know that most scales are designed to have a smaller degree of accuracy at lower weights so if you already have lots of stuff in the bowl it will go into the next sector of accuracy for higher weights which is less precise. this is written on the box and reading materials that come with scales, for ex. it might say accurate to 1 grams with weights from 1 to 50 grams, accurage to 2 grams above that etc.

Patrincia
08/17/2007 01:48 AM

Hi Cathy - I've done a few wedding cakes and even more large, special occasion type cakes. I almost always use Rose's buttercake and buttercream recipes. Although the cake bible may suggest it, I don't think you necessarily need to have a cake come to room temperature for precisely 6 hours before cutting/serving. In my experience I think 1-3 hours is sufficient (smaller cakes need less time; larger or taller cakes need more time). Just be careful you don't try cutting a cake when the buttercream is too cold (firm) - it will crack like an ice covered lake.

I've refrigerated and frozen and/or refrozen batches of buttercream with no noticeable ill effects - I wouldn't go hog wild with this, but a time or two shouldn't be a problem. (btw, some recipes, like Rose's Strawberry Puree, can be frozen, thawed, and refrozen quite a few times without noticing any deterioration of flavors)

For storage at room temperature time on the various buttercream, I've always understood it to refer to freshly made, room temperature batches. If I were to take a bowl of chilled buttercream, or a chilled cake containing that same buttercream out of the refrigerator, I would assume it would have a longer "shelf life" so to speak. Actually, if you read the 3rd paragraph of page 357, you'll see, "a cake frosted and decorated with buttercream can be made 1 day ahead and left at cool room temperature (except for cheesecakes, which require refrigeration)".

Incidentally, for wedding cakes, I think the color and flavor of the mousseline buttercream is a much better choice than the classic or neo-classic buttercreams.

I agree with Hector that a cracked cake should taste okay, it just won't look quite as nice as you may have hoped it would. I will only put multiple pans in my oven if there is plenty of staggered space around each pan - I would not try 2 9x13s at the same time (not enough room for air circulation). Always avoid baking cakes too close to the top of the oven cavity - it's just too darn hot up there.

Oh, one more thing - I know you mentioned that you usually refrigerate unbaked batter, but did you happen to read Rose's suggestion in the cake bible about refrigerating that batter directly in the pan you plan to bake it in? If you follow that suggestion, you will get more "rise" than if you stored the unused batter in a bowl first and then poured it into the pan when you were ready to bake it.

Oh my it's late - happy baking!

Cathy
08/17/2007 12:04 AM

Interesting about the scale/salt. I had the same thing happen the other day with lemon zest. Nothing registered while I continued to zest away! I think you are right about that.

Do you need to worry about the layer baking underneath the upper rack layer in your oven in terms of the top of it getting done/browning correctly? I've had 2 9X13 cakes baking this way before (one on top the other directly below) and the one below it, of course did not brown at all on top. Does this matter?

I look forward to trying a genoise. I am currently saving for a standing mixer because I am still using only a handheld. As I have read about genoise in Rose's CB, I saw that one must mix for a long period, so I thought I should wait for the standing mixer for that. I am looking forward to genoise so I can finally use some of those great whipped cream fillings and frostings. I love the texture of those and would love to offer those to people.

By the way, I've been wanting to ask this question...(one of many to come I'm sure)...I love Mousseline Buttercream--the taste, texture, etc. is fantastic. But one of the best things about it is how long it can stay unrefrigerated! Especially considering butter cakes, which need to be out for 6 hours at room temp prior to serving (CB p. 536).

My question is, how do you use any other buttercream when preparing a wedding cake or big-project cake when those (Classic and Neoclassic) can only be out for 6 hours? It seems one would have no other choice than Mousseline since the butter cakes need to be out for at least 6 hours before serving. Just as soon as you are ready to serve, the Neoclassic needs to go back in...? Or do you just bake and put on the frosting the same day as delivery?

Also, when Rose states how long things should be stored--room temp, refrig, frozen--does that mean at one time? Or can you do it for several times w/o safety being a problem? For example, let's say I make some Mousseline one day, keep it out at room temp for 2 while working on a cake on and off, then refrig, then bring back out the next day for 2 more days....do you know what I mean? I just want to make sure I am doing it all exactly right--I would feel awful if I was responsible for someone getting sick!

I appreciate your encouragement with my home business. It is exciting and has happened pretty quickly. That is why I am all ears to hear from others, such as yourself, how all this is done with excellence. I am very grateful to Rose, The Cake Bible (which has revolutionized my cakes) and this blog, which puts me in contact with all of you.

Hector
08/16/2007 08:21 PM

Cathy, baking at home for business is the way to go! Good luck on your entrepreneurship.

I don't think cracked cakes affect taste, the most it does is leaving you with less cake 'cause you need to trim this off. The 'texture' on cracked cakes is a little different than on even baked cakes because either the baking powder was off or the temperature of the oven was too high. That's about it.

Something interesting happened to me last night as I was measuring 16 grams of salt for this bread I am preparing. I got a new salt grinder. I was grinding the salt directly on my bowl while measuring on my Soehnle Futura electronic scale. As I was grinding in more salt, I noticed that the grams increments was reading very slow on the scale and eventually it stopped registering even when grinding in more salt. So I kept grinding and grinding and grinding in more salt thus my bread is now a ball of salt.

My suspicion is that when measuring small amounts of grams or when adding small increments, the scale doesn't register well. Next time I will grind my salt ahead of time, gather it in a little bowl or bottle, and measure from here in scoops bigger than 1 gram increments. I think the salt was been added on the scale in such small 'dust' increments (less than 1 gram at a time), that the scale did not notice it! It would be a good idea to measure by volume first, then verify by weight on your scales when dealing with such small quantities.

No, it isn't a rule of thumb to bake only 1 layer at a time. But it would be the best and safest way! Once you master the temperature and heating flow of your oven you will learn by experience your limits and bake as many as it can fit! Write notes. In my case I can bake:

1- just one 9" round cake in the most mid rack.
2- two 9" round cakes side by side on a rack slightly above mid, plus 1 9" round cake in the middle of a rack below mid.
3- four 9" round cakes, two ea side by side per rack, with 2" clear spacing and dim convection turned on.
4- one giant 14" round cake alone in the middle.
5- etc, etc.

My 'rule of thumb' is that the worse place to bake is on the top rack (too hot), and you must always stay away by 2 inches or more from any oven wall (the walls burn). Baking on the bottom rack is acceptable.

To be honest with you, the main reason I prefer to bake genoise and biscuit is because you don't need to worry about baking powder!

Bake your life away.

Cathy
08/16/2007 07:36 PM

Hector,

I mean, do you think the baking/cakes cracked will affect the taste (not the wash).

Cathy
08/16/2007 06:33 PM

Hector,

I did weigh everything. And I think I did the calculations correct with the Rose Factor. I added 3 g baking powder to my batter prior to dispersing the final batter into my 2 6" rounds. I won't bake all of those layer together in the future. As a rule, do you just bake one layer/set of layers of same size at a time and leave the rest in the refrigerator until those are done?

A small home cake deco business has recently evolved for me, and I was baking these for some customers. I use a wash to moisten each cake. Do you think this will affect the taste of the cake adversely?

melanie
08/16/2007 06:01 PM

Hi Rose!
Do you have a good method of calculating how much cake to bake per number of servings needed? & how much different is it when a square is used? I need a three tiered square cake for 90 people.
Thanks!

Hector
08/16/2007 02:23 PM

Cathy, sorry to hear this. From what I read, baking all those layers together seems to have been a major factor, specially when you mention that the larger layer baked faster than the smaller layers! Cakes too close to the top of the oven will bake too fast. Cakes places too near any of the oven walls will get burned edges. Having a small convection fan helps me a lot when I bake multiple layers, but I never stuff my oven (when I do, I get similar results as you do). Since ALL your layers cracked on top, I think the measurement of baking powder was off. Did you weight?

Cathy
08/16/2007 01:32 PM

I just baked 2 6" rounds and 1 9X13 All-Amer Choc Butter cakes yesterday using the Rose Factor. My cakes cracked on top and the toothpick came out wet still after 35-40 mins for the 6". The 9X13 was done before the smaller ones (but still cracked).

Should I not have baked them at the same time? My oven temp was 350, and it has always been right in the past. I don't think I overmixed, either. Any ideas?

Cathy
08/12/2007 02:45 AM

The Baby Bassinet cake turned out beautifully and was successfully delivered without any problems thanks to many of you who helped me with some great tips! The base was made of White Velvet butter cake and orange buttercream filling and the head was Perfect All-Am Choc Cake with raspberry filling. Mousseline buttercream.

I thought I knew how to get a picture on here, but am having trouble. If I can figure it out, I will do it!

Thanks again!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/10/2007 11:40 AM

wanda, if the cakes are taking 5 to 10 min. longer than i specified you need to turn the oven higher in order to achieve the ideal texture. if a cake sets more slowly it will be coarser and possibly fall in the middle.

Patrincia
08/10/2007 11:14 AM

Hi Theresa - You are FANTASTIC!!! How can I thank you for going through all that trouble? You definitely answered a lot of questions for me.

You're right about the King Arthur people prefer the Vikings, but I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that they sell them in their catalog? I don't doubt it's a fabulous mixer though - I just wish the attachments didn't sink so deep down into the bowl.

Thanks a gazillion for your super-sleuth reporting!!!

Theresa
08/10/2007 08:37 AM

Patrincia - reporting back on the 7-qt Viking...

I filled the bowl with first 4 qts, then 4 1/2 and then 5 qts of water, and put the flat beater on to account for displacement. (I felt like Rose doing her scientific research!) What I found was that 5 qts seemed to be about the maximum you would be able to use, as it brought the water to the top of the "business" part of the beater. (There was another 1/2" of clearance between the top of the business part and the metal flange or collar on the beater that sticks out to protect the connection to the mixer head.) There was about 2" of bowl unfilled with water; at that part of the bowl, each inch equated to a quart of water, so I think the bowl is indeed 7 qt, but you are correct that you wouldn't really be able to mix 7 qts of ingredients. (If that is not clear, just ask and I will explain better. I think I have now put everyone else to sleep...)

The beaters are stainless steel. The manual says you can hand wash them or put them in the dishwasher. I tend to wash the flat whisk and dough hook by hand; the whisk I put on the top rack of the dishwasher. My thinking is that I want to make sure there is absolutely no grease on the whisk and I trust the dishwasher more than myself to accomplish this.

I have not had the problem of the bowl screwing itself in too tightly when making bread. It doesn't actually screw in; there is a recessed area for the bowl with two metal tabs (one on each side). The bowl has two slots in it; you place it in the recessed area and then turn to lock it in place. I always use two hands to put it in and remove it. Maybe the person had it on too high a speed for the heavy bread dough? The manual seems to recommend speed 2 for bread; I've gone a little higher than that - to 4 or maybe a little above. I think the manufacturers like to cover themselves by being cautious; for instance, I have heard that the KitchenAid manual recommends a lower speed than Rose does for bread. That being said, I am probably a wimp about the speeds. The only thing I have used speed 12 on so far is a cake made with whipped cream instead of butter. (I only used speed 12 to whip the cream; normally I would use speed 5 or 6 for a standard butter cake.) I tried it twice; once with the whisk attachment and then a double batch with the flat beater. I was surprised that the flat beater did such a good job of whipping the cream; the cake came out very well. (Though I certainly missed Rose's detailed instructions, instead of not-so-helpful advice such as "beat until fluffy"!)

At the risk of rambling on and on, here are a few more thoughts:

I find the tilt head helpful as opposed to a crank, but if you like to use an ice bath or a hot water bath frequently, I think you would want a mixer with a crank.

Since the Viking is not as widely available as the KitchenAid, you probably won't be as able to get competitive prices on it or any attachments.

Also, there is one plastic piece on the mixer - it is a small disk underneath the bowl. It is the only plastic piece on the whole machine. It appears to be a piece that could be easily removed and replaced if needed; perhaps that's why they decided to make it out of plastic. I mention this because some people may find this objectionable. It does not show, however, with the bowl in place (which is how I store my mixer, rather than finding another place for that giant bowl!).

And finally, as I said, I do not bake nearly the volume as most of the other bloggers here, so it would be entirely fair to give my high opinion of this mixer less weight than that of someone who does tons of baking. I can only tell you that my experience has been very positive. And the King Arthur people are very high on them. (But they may have more of a bread than a cake perspective. It has performed well on my cakes, however.)

Hope this helps... I wish you were a little closer and could come check it out!

Su Ching
08/10/2007 12:33 AM

Hi everyone, talking about mixers, I'm wondering if anyone can give helpful comments. I have a Kenwood which houses 6.7L, which I think I overstrained using it to mix rolled fondant for wedding cakes. The motor finally gave out after months of strain and is under repair now. Anyone with experience doing fondant in a mixer? I can't imagine sweating it out over several kgs of fondant myself, but don't want my mixer to kick the bucket again!

Hector
08/09/2007 08:25 PM

Wanda, jackpot!

Wanda LaLoggia
08/09/2007 07:30 PM

Vicki, I had the same problem with the butter cakes and tried everything I could think of. It turned out to be oven temperature. I got several thermoters and discovered my oven was running too cold. For a 350 degree cake, I now turn my oven to 380 degrees and that seems to do the trick. (I also usually have to cook the cakes 5 - 10 minutes longer than the range in the cookbook. Hope that helps.

Wanda

Patrincia
08/09/2007 11:30 AM

Thanks Elicia - I learn something new each time I transport one. (wonder what I'll know 10 years from now?)

Elicia
08/08/2007 10:57 PM

Just an indication, the Kenwood 7qts can take up to 16egg whites. The beater heights are also adjustable. Over here, Kenwood is readily available and is actually cheaper than the KA. KA is more of a novelty mixer due to its retro design! We don't get the Vikings and Sunbeams etc. Sometimes, less choice equals less headaches in selection, haha!

Creme ivoire is a beautiful ivory colour, not white-white unfortunately!

Patrincia, that was some transporting tips! Thks!

Joan
08/08/2007 07:13 PM

These discussions about mixers are helping me so much in my decision about what I want/need and why! Thanks. joan

Patrincia
08/08/2007 07:06 PM

Thanks Theresa! Can't wait to hear back.

Re the attachments - can you tell me if the flat, whisk, and dough hooks are stainless, ceramic covered, aluminium, etc? Are they dishwasher safe?

Re the bowl - I read that mixing action of bread dough slapping against the bowl actually made the bowl "super" screwed tight to the base (hence the difficulty removing it). I take it you haven't had that problem?

I thought I read something somewhere about being able to adjust the beater height up/down on the KA too - anyone know about that?

Theresa
08/08/2007 06:59 PM

Hi, Patrincia - I haven't had a problem removing the bowl. (It turns to lock in place but, as it sits in an indentation of sorts, sometimes I think it would probably be just fine even if I didn't lock it.)

At the store where I bought it, the saleswoman said that I might need to adjust the beater down with a wrench if it was not quite touching the bottom of the bowl (a one time adjustment). The instruction booklet mentions how to do this. I did not find it necessary on mine, but thought I should mention it in the interest of full disclosure.

It came with the standard 3 beaters - flat, whisk and dough hook. The back of the unit has wheels, which make it easier to move underneath my cabinets for storage. It's heavy enough that the wheels don't cause it to move around when it is in use (at least in my experience).

I'm trying to visualize 7 qts of ingredients!!! (I'll bet Hector can!) Maybe I will pour 7 qts of water into it and see where it comes to with the beater on. I will report back...

Patrincia
08/08/2007 05:40 PM

Hi Vickie - it's been my experience that when a cake falls after being removed from the oven, the cake is not completely cooked in the center. Hope that helps!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 05:26 PM

Hi Cathy - you are most welcome - it's my pleasure to help!

Yes, I would keep the cake in a box to guard against accidental bumps/debris (like the time my dear hubby put my unboxed cake in his car trunk and a propped up floor mat fell onto it - thankfully the cold, hard buttercream made debris removal quick and easy). Good thing I like to refrigerate my cakes before I transport!

I too find boxes are usually too big to put in the fridge, so just before I'm ready to deliver, I open the top of the empty box and place it upside-down over my air-conditioner vent for a few minutes - it quickly makes the box nice and cold. Then I box up my cold cake, tape the box closed, and viola - I'm set to travel (cardboard is a pretty good insulator). Don't forget to turn on the air in your vehicle.

Oh yeah, I like to put the empty box on it's side and slide the cake in (flaps will open/close like doors) - be sure to tape the flaps closed so your cake doesn't accidentally fall out of the box :(.

PS - I don't have an additional fridge either, but I did get the largest side by side I could find for a reasonable price (it will fit up to a 16" tier on an 18" base if needed).

Cathy
08/08/2007 04:21 PM

Thank you, Patricia. Yes, I'm using straws to keep layers together. Your tips are great about transporting....if I do keep it out room temp for a day, I should keep it in the closed box, correct? I wish I could keep it refrigerated, but the box will not fit inside the frig. (I don't have a separate refrigerator.)

vickie chappell
08/08/2007 03:52 PM

I am using a commercial convection oven and my pound cakes bake beautiful but fall after I take them out. What can I do to stop this? Vickie

Patrincia
08/08/2007 03:38 PM

Oh thanks for writing Theresa - have you ever had trouble detaching the bowl from the mixer? Do you think the bowl can hold 7qts of ingredients?

Theresa
08/08/2007 03:28 PM

Patrincia, I actually do have the 7-quart Viking mixer and love it. I was nervous, too, because of a few bad reviews on epinions (there were also loads of bad reviews of the KitchenAids, FWIW). I think you have to go and look for yourself and talk to people, as you are doing. When I actually looked at the Viking, I could see that the attachments were heavier and better quality than the KitchenAid that I was considering. On the other hand, I got the biggie for breadmaking, and as you know have not baked nearly as many cakes as most of the people blogging here. I bake fairly often, but have never made a wedding cake, for instance. I have had a very good experience so far with the Viking - absolutely no problems - other than getting used to such a powerful mixer after my little Sunbeam (which I still have and use from time to time!). I've had my Viking for about a year now and am still in awe! :)

Patrincia
08/08/2007 01:16 PM

Hi Hector - yep, I had read some of the bad reviews for the Viking, but I was hoping someone here might have first hand knowledge.

Anyway, I will look at the Bosch and the Electrolux. There is a 7qt Delonghi that looks very similar to the Cuisinart too. I will probably get the 6qt KA, but the thought of a 7qt capacity bowl is preferable, if it actually will hold that much.

Re the Wolfgang Puck - don't poo-poo Mr Puck :) - I got a set of his pots and pans as a gift about 10 years ago - since then I've upgraded to All-Clad, but I'm not about to give my WP stuff away - it's really good for "aluminum-disk-base-covered-in-stainless" stuff. The only thing I didn't like about them was the aluminum rivets - they never caused me any trouble, I just didn't like the way they looked after going through the dishwasher.

Hector
08/08/2007 12:16 PM

I am a bit certain that customer service for KitchenAid mixers in the USA is great, you can just call them for anything and if anything is wrong within 1 year, you get a new mixer. Also, appliance repair shops are much more know knowledgeable with KA mixers, they are highly serviceable and replacement parts are readily available.

The 7 qt contenders are a temptation. I believe Viking receives constant bad reviews. Cuisinart seems promising. Kenwood is a long time standing tradition of quality, but on the commercial / higher price point. I don't think Wolfgang Puck designs his own mixers, it is just a generic appliance factory copying features from other mixer and slapping his name badge on it.

Check also Bosch and Electrolux.

In summary, for the cost/benefit analysis, get a KitchenAid or two! The refurbished models are a true savings, perhaps you can even get 3! That way you also have more than 1 set of bowls and beaters which is almost a necessity.

And if you are serious about large batches, get a Hobart. They have no competition.

Patrincia
08/08/2007 11:57 AM

Oops, forgot to mention you should place a sign in your rear window that says, "cake on board" - keep people from getting to angry with you when you drive slowly on certain road conditions.

How tall will your cake be? I would suggest using straws or dowels to keep your layers from sliding - especially if you plan to deliver the cake at room temp!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 11:53 AM

Yep - the cake really will stay "fresh" because the buttercream will seal the moisture in. The buttercreams are very stable unrefrigerated for the lengths of time Rose states. I like to transport cold though, because the buttercream is firm when cold - isn't as easily marred if accidentally bumped into. I always transport in a box - just another added layer of protection for your beautiful work of art. I would suggests a non-slip mat under the cake inside the box, and a non-slip on the car floor to place the box onto. If you are planning on traveling on a bumpy road, a piece of foam is a good "cushion" to rest the box on. If you do travel with a chilled cake, allow time for the cake to come to room temp before serving (2 hours or so).

I believe the Mousseline is whiter than the Creme Ivoire Deluxe - white chocolate is very creamy in color. The Mousseline is pretty white really.

Cathy
08/08/2007 11:27 AM

Thank you, Elicia & Patricia! I really appreciate your thoughts. I will look into the mixers you are talking about and am looking forward to hearing any more from anyone with experience with those...

I would love to try the Creme Ivoire Deluxe buttercream....is it whiter than the Mousseline? The part I mentioned that is Perfect Am Choc Cake with raspberry filling is the head. The base part of the bassinet is White Velvet Cake with orange buttercream filling/icing. Would this white choc go with orange as well?

I think I'm needing some reassurance here....I am creating this odd-shaped sculpted bassinet that I will be delivering to a baby shower on Friday, and I read in CB last night under wedding cakes that Rose says you can decorate the day before and keep at room temp until the time. I will have to store and deliver it in a box b/c of its shape/height. My question...will the cake really stay fresh? I can't stand the thought of this delicious creation becoming stale!

Patrincia
08/08/2007 10:47 AM

Rose also recently wrote about the new cuisinart 7qt mixer. I read a review online about how the attachments go way down into the bowl, which functionally, makes it not hold as many ingredients as the 7qt bowl capacity should be able to hold - I haven't tried it though, so I really don't know if this is really an issue or not. I'm almost 100% sure that I'll be adding a 6qt KitchenAid to the 5qt model I already have, but would like to hear more about the 7qt Cuisinart from anyone who has it. I'd like to hear anyone's opinion on the Viking stand mixer and the Wolfgang Puck mixer too - anyone have any thoughts to share?

Elicia
08/08/2007 10:26 AM

Hi Cathy, I've used the Wilton whitener before and I think it is best reserved for fondant/marzipan - I think it is really meant for whitening pale yellow or ivory buttercreams/fondant. You will need a lot of it for darker shades and it will definitely affect the texture, not to mention taste!

Try Rose's Creme Ivoire Deluxe buttercream - the white choc will go well with the raspberry - you will have to experiment as to whether it pipes basketweaves well - it is ok for simple piping like shell borders, and it is a fantastic glaze - almost fondant-like yet so delicious!

As for mixers - check out Kenwood - I have the 7quart which has a better capacity than KA. Not sure abt the price in US though! It has a tilt-back function and a deep bowl that is still good for small amounts. Rose has written a little abt it in the PPB I think!

Hector
08/07/2007 05:53 PM

anytime!

Cathy
08/07/2007 05:32 PM

Hector,

Again, thank you! That is what I wanted--your honest opinion--why give anything else? I think I will try the double coat and in the future plan a little better. I will be sure to send a picture when I'm finished--

Thanks again!

Hector
08/07/2007 05:14 PM

Cathy, I am going to share with you my most honest and personal point of view. You know I am the man who has spent the past 2 months developing natural fruit flavors and colors on mousseline buttercreams! for a big cake =)

So here it is: Absolutely NOT, meaning don't do that. The main character of raspberry is the intense red color, so attempting to bleach it will be unnatural and contradictory? Try using artificial raspberry flavor, uncolored, if you wish, and add a few drops of lemon juice... lemon enhances the flavor of raspberry without any coloring.

Alternatively, to achieve very white Mousseline Buttercream, I use vodka as a liquor, or white wine.

Another thing I often do, it is more work, but it pays off: Use double coat! Meaning, first you frost your cake with your wonderful natural colored and flavored buttercream, and then on top of that coat pipe 'white' buttercream. A darker coat under your basket weave may add a very nice 3D effect, almost like natural basket weave shadows if you look thru. I've made decadent chocolate cakes with chocolate frosting, hidden under white buttercream!

If available, share a picture of the baby shower bassinet. It sounds wild!

Cathy
08/07/2007 04:52 PM

Thank you Hector! I just made the Mousseline today for the second time, and it is wonderful! I used a raspberry liqueur and added a raspberry wash to the Perfect All-American Choc Butter Cake, and it tastes divine.

Can I ask you this....I am preparing a sculpted bassinet cake for a baby shower and it will have a white basket weave around the outside. Is there a way I can use the Raspberry Mouselline Buttercream and add a "whitening" product (I think Wilton has it) to make it white again? (It turned pinkish with the addition of the liqueur.) Will that whitening product mess up the Mouselline do you think?

Hector
08/07/2007 02:33 PM

Nushera, that is a great idea, to use coconut milk and dry shaved coconut in lieu of fresh.

Cathy, Kitchen Aid's biggest mixer is 6 qt, and that is much better appreciated than the 5 qt. There is no mixer of 10 qt capacity for under $500. You could perhaps get 2 mixers, 6 qt, and you will be surprised how practical it can be to have 2 mixers rather than just 1 big one. I have a 6qt and a 5 qt, plus a hand blender and a 11 cup food processor.

Hobart makes nice 20 qt mixers which you could fit a 10 qt bowl, too, but these run over $2000; I would get it if you can. If you have the Hobart, you still need the 'smaller' mixers (6qt or 5 qt) to mix smaller things, up to 11 cup frostings, creams, regular sized cakes, etc, these things would get lost in a big bowl and not mix well!

Rose's Mousseline Buttercream is the one that has the best consistency and shelf life for piping. It pipes like a dream and will stay put for 2 days at up to 90 degree weather, no piping gel or meringue powder needed (you actually make your own meringue in the recipe).

Cathy
08/07/2007 12:29 PM

Thank you, Matthew for that clarification.

Matthew
08/07/2007 01:53 AM

Cathy, re: Rose Factor, the 13x9 rectangle listing is for 1 pan, not 2. The batter weight column clarifies this: for 2 9x2 pans, the weight is 750 grams ea., and for the 13x9, the weight is 1500 grams.

Cathy
08/07/2007 12:05 AM

Hello, Rose. I am so grateful for your Cake Bible and all the work you have done to make it the best. I am in love with all your recipes, am the proud owner of a new MY WEIGH scale (thanks to this blog!) and am having the time of my life decorating cakes now! A small business has even evolved, and I owe much of my success to you! Thank you!

I have a couple of questions I'm wondering if you or others out there can answer....I worked out with the Rose Factor the formula/recipe for the White base cake with 2 9X2 rounds and 2 9X13 sheets. When I was calculating, I noticed that the Rose Factors for both of those were a 4 on the Master Chart (p. 490 in the 1988 version). I thought this was strange since the 9X13 seems so much bigger, but I went ahead and assumed there was a reason. Well, when I made the batter, it only ended up filling (1/2- 2/3 full) the two 9X13s and none of the 9X2 rounds. Am I missing something here? Should the Rose Factor be an 8 for th 9X13 pans or did I do something wrong?

Secondly, I am eager to graduate from a hand mixer to a standing, and want to buy something that could handle the volume of cakes I am making. I've been looking at the Kitchen Aid Professional models on ebay, but just reread your section in the CB about needing a 10-quart Hobart mixer in order to mix a single batter for several cakes at once. Does Kitchen Aid even carry a 10-quart? It looks like from their site that even the Professional models are just 5 quarts. I want to be able to mix many at once and freeze layers. What would you suggest for under $500?

Lastly, when I took the Wilton decorating class, they taught us to use different icing consistencies depending on the decoration. Do you need to be concerned with consistency when using the true buttercreams like yours? Does one need piping gel and meringue powder at all?

Thank you again. I couldn't be more grateful for sharing all your hard work to benefit the rest of us out here!

nushera
08/06/2007 11:40 PM

Kristine, if the recipe calls for freshly shredded coconut and u have to substitute with the packaged stuff, u can add a little coconut milk and leave for some time so the dry shredded/ grated/desiccated coconut can be moistened. but i am afraid flaked coconut wont be the right substitute.

Hector
08/06/2007 06:43 PM

Kristine,

Chocolate (squares, block) has sugar in often also milk, also cacao butter. Cocoa has no sugar or very little of it, no cacao butter, and most definitely no milk. There is a complete explanation on The Cake Bible, with possible interchangeable substitutes.

Your recipe with coconut should specify what to use, freshly shredded, dry grated, or flakes.

Regarding 'dutch' as far as I know, it needs to have the specific word 'processed': it needs to say 'dutch processed'

I am sorry, I am not a cocoa expert, I use mostly chocolate (blocks, squares).

kristine
08/06/2007 06:35 PM

hi! these are my questions:

will using cocoa powder and butter/oil (3:1) instead of chocolate squares alter the texture and taste of my cake in any way?

when a recipe calls for shredded coconut, does it mean fresh? can i use grated instead? what about flaked coconut? how is it different from grated coconut?

what is the difference between dutch cocoa and dutch processed cocoa?

Patrincia
08/05/2007 03:21 PM

One final thought to add to my post above - be sure to use a white muffin batter. If the batter is yellow (from egg yolks), the strawberry juice will turn the batter orange.

Patrincia
08/05/2007 02:18 PM

Hi dianna - I used to get these delicious strawberry muffins at a restaurant I used live near. When we moved away, I decided to try to recreate them myself - and I have to say, they turned out pretty darn good!

Basically what I did was substitute strawberries in a blueberry muffin recipe, but there's just a tiny bit more to it than that. Here's what I did - first, I chopped enough strawberries to equal the amount of blueberries called for in the original recipe, then I sprinkled the strawberries with 1-2 Tbsp. sugar, then stirred together and let them rest for 10-20 minutes until the berries were nice and "juicy", in the meantime I prepared the muffin batter, then I stirred in the berries (including the "juice"), which gave the batter a nice pink-streaked appearance. Then I filled my muffin tins and baked as directed in the recipe - they looked fun and they tasted delicious! Btw, I sprinkled coarse sugar on top of the muffins before baking (just like the restaurant did), but they could easily frosted with your favorite frosting - Rose's Vanilla Buttercream would be fantastic!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
08/05/2007 09:05 AM

i'm afraid not. strawberries are mostly water and don't have the structure or fiber of bananas. make strawberry jam whipped cream or buttercream!

dianna
07/25/2007 02:37 PM

HI, i am sooo glad i found this blog. Almoust as glad as when i found the Cake Bible!! i have a daughter who has her heart set on a strawberry cake(with vanilla icing, mommy:D) but have been unable to find a recipe that i like. would i be able to switch strawberries for the bananas in your banana cake?

Joan
07/24/2007 08:06 PM

Hector: I can visualize me standing with hands in oven and hair sticking out all over head and body - yikes! I will keep on looking. Today I ordered a veg/fruit strainer for my 4.5 KA, so that should keep me occupied making buttercream for a while, and out of convection trouble. Thanks, as always! joan

Hector
07/24/2007 02:05 PM

Joan, you are welcome. I wish I could have given you a better answer, so I am still thinking about a good solution for you.

Perhaps you can get one of those inexpensive toaster ovens, but get a unit as large as you can find, like the ones with room for 3 shelves and 6-slice of toast. Then find a way to line the top and bottom of the oven cavity with quarry tiles leaving you enough room to put a cake in the middle with 2" clearance. Maybe you can use one shelf to put tiles on the top, and for the bottom rest the tiles directly on the heating element, and use the bottom shelf to put your cake. You may need to find or build your own shelf since these toasters normally come with only 1 shelf included It is very likelly there will not be enough room, so you may need to drill something to hang tiles on the top of the oven! Sometimes these toaster ovens have a heating element on the top a few inches away from the roof, so you may slide in between your tiles.

The tiles will give you very even heat distribution that you won't need to use the convection feature! The convection feature on these little toaster ovens is pretty much far from perfection.

Of course, what I am suggesting here may cause a risk of electrocution or fire, so please, be careful and don't quote me on this.

Good luck.

Joan
07/24/2007 10:10 AM

Thankd Hector. You are always so quick to respond and to help on any topic. I apreciate it so much. Will continue to research this now that I at least know what am looking for/not! Thanks, joan

Hector
07/24/2007 02:40 AM

Joan, the inexpensive convection ovens you refer to, I think are larger toaster ovens that claim to bake cakes. I do not recommend them.

Rose uses a countertop microwave oven, that has convection bake, and a turntable. The convection fan is very slow, you can't feel it. The primary reason of this oven is the turntable, which will bake your cakes amazingly even. It isn't inexpensive in my opinion, and it isn't that small. It is a very large countertop microwave oven (about 1.5 to 2.0 cubic feet), and it costs about $500.

If Rose is using a KitchenAid microwave convection oven, KA only makes them as built in ovens. About 2.0 cubic feet and $1000. They have the turntable.

Keep on searching and keep me posted of specific models.

Joan
07/23/2007 09:50 PM

Hi all - I would like to know if anyone can recommend a small [not pricey] convection oven? I have managed to locate several, but then occurred to me that I really don't know the qualities I am looking for/or not. I remember reading Rose commenting on huge fans in one that blew the product into the faces of the visitors when the door was opened. Thanks for your help.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/23/2007 09:11 PM

do a search on the blog for cake strips to see how to make your own. and when using black pans bake at 25 degree F. lower temperature.

Carol Morris
07/23/2007 07:29 PM

I'm enjoying reading your blog! My daughter have a very small cake business and are currently using one standard oven to accomplish this. I need to purchase a double oven so that we can get more cakes done faster. Does anyone have any recommendations on brands, styles etc...no high end ones please...we're just starting out. Thanks Carol

Kyle
07/23/2007 05:16 PM

Reynel,
In my opinion,
www.bookfinder4u.com
is the absolute best site to search for books online. It lists from cheapest to most expensive and includes websites from all over the world. It also has a 'wish list' feature, allowing you to keep up with books you would like to purchase in the future. I have found it very useful to locate out of print books.
K

Reynel
07/23/2007 02:43 PM

Hi Rose and everybody else.

Your book "The Cake Bible" is what I was always looking for although I only realised that when I found it on my boss's bookshelf!

I have a few questions.

1. I want my own copies of your books, but can't find them in South Africa. Where (online) can I find the most recent, most revised copies of "The Cake Bible" and "The Bread Bible"? I am worried that some sites online will only have earlier versions of the abovementioned books. What should I ask for or look for? What year, etc.

2. I have made the Chocolate Fudge cake, but could not find tins with measurements 23cm x 4cm. Most of the tins available in South Africa are 8 cm deep and from what I have read the height of a tin is important to produce a good cake. Could you suggest seeing that I can only obtain tins of 8cm deep how I should adjust your recipe. Alternatively, can I enquire from you where I can get the correct tins.

3. At the moment I bake mostly birthday cakes and use a rectangular tin (23cm x 33cm) a lot which is not an alluminium tin and which is black. This is the only tin of this measurements and shape that I can find. Will it help to slow down the absorbtion of heat if I cover the outside of the tin with heavy alluminium foil using the shiny side on the inside and the dull side on the outside.

I will appreciate your reply.

Thanking u for your assistance.

Kind regards
Reynel Kruger

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/22/2007 09:01 AM

hector, it is a dream cake unlike any other.
juliana, matzo is made with flour but is permissible for passover due to certain blessings. so indeed a cake made with it is 'flourless' only in the passover sense but not in the literal sense!

Juliana
07/22/2007 07:24 AM

Thanks Rozanne. Can you tell me what kind of flour is used in matzo because I read somewhere that it can be used to make Flourless Vanilla Sponge Cake. If it uses wheat flour, then it can't be called "flourless".

Hector
07/21/2007 10:41 PM

Regarding Absolutely Delicheeous, here is another for you Rose!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Lichee4Rose.html

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/18/2007 02:34 PM

angela, follow the instructions to the letter. if you're getting little bits of flour not mixed in i know you're not bc i addressed this. you have to reach to the bottom with your FINGERS.
i don't know what kind of flour you're using, or how you're measuring or weighing it so it's up to you to follow the directions that i very carefully set out.

Rozanne
07/16/2007 12:13 PM

Juliana, Matzo is a brittle, thin unleavened bread. Traditionally it is made of flour and water only. Ground matzo is called matzo meal.
Rozanne

Rozanne
07/16/2007 12:11 PM

Juliana, Matzo is a thin unleavened bread. Traditionally it is made of flour and water only. Ground matzo is called matzo meal.
Rozanne

Juliana
07/16/2007 11:04 AM

Hi Rose,

What is matzo meal and what is it made up of?

Angela
07/15/2007 06:07 PM

Hi Rose. I've been having so much trouble with the classique genoise cake. You said that it's almost impossible to overwhip, but mine keeps sinking in the middle. And if I get it right, it's too dense on the bottom, with little bits of flour not completely mixed in. Please help! I'm at my wits end with this cake!
Thank you, Angela

Hector
07/14/2007 07:32 PM

Cathy, I third the motion, whipped cream toppings should be resserved for moisten biscuit or genoise. Butter cakes don't do well with it, in my experience.

Patrincia
07/14/2007 04:38 PM

Hi Cathy - I don't think you would have a problem with your cake being unrefrigerated for a reasonable amount of time, but rose does specify refrigeration for storage.

As far as using whipped cream as a filling for a butter cake, I would be concerned that the whipped cream wouldn't be able to support the weight of a heavy butter cake. Adding cream cheese would probably help somewhat. Obviously the colder the filling, the better it would be able to support the weight of the cake. Please let us know what you decide to do, and know how it worked out in the end.

Elicia
07/14/2007 06:45 AM

Cathy, I believe whipped cream shd be reserved for biscuits and genoises. Try ganache, glazes and buttercreams for butter cakes.

I think it's good to be aware of bugs problem. I was in Melbourne last year and on one very hot day, I had a first-hand experience of bugs - lots of them! We get a lot of bugs in our humid weather but that experience in Melbourne was one of a kind!

Cathy
07/13/2007 11:32 PM

Do any of you see any problem with the creation of a Reese's whipped cream filling? I am planning to try chopped up Reese's mixed in with stabilized whipped cream/cream cheese as a filling for my chocolate cake. Is there something I should be aware of that I am not with this?

Thanks!

Cathy
07/13/2007 11:22 PM

I have a question....when you make a butter cake with a whipped cream filling of some sort, is it a problem with refrigeration/temperature? I know the butter cake must be a room temp to taste best, but also know whipped cream frostings should be kept refrigerated. Are you just careful to bring to room temp, but not let it set out over 2 hours? Or do you just never mix a refrigerated whipped filling with a butter cake?

I am now getting orders for cakes and want to make sure I do this right. Thank you for any help!

Cathy

Patrincia
07/13/2007 11:11 PM

Hi Jen - I hear Seattle is a wonderful place for foodies! I've never been there, but hope to visit someday!

As for your questions - Oh yes, there are most definitely certain times of the year when one would be faced with this very issue here in Virginia. Thankfully I was warned in advance by an experienced cake maker, and thankfully I have been able to avoid any mishaps (keep in mind I'm talking about situations when the buttercream or ganache has become very soft due to a high outside temperature).

We can get extremely warm temps here as early as March when the air is super thick with pollen. The heat can continue well into the fall when our flying bugs are at their worst (for 5-6 weeks I hear the clinking and clancking of ladybugs flying into the windows all day long - we get them by the gazillions). But then there are times when the air is crystal clear - I recently did a ganache covered cake for an outside event without incident.

I guess it all depends on where you live, and what time of year it is. One of my friends lives only a few miles away from me, but because her property is right next to a horse farm, there are flies everywhere, so there is no way I would put a cake outside at her house. Another friend lives in a town surrounded by orchards - when the fruits fall to the ground and start to rot there are so many gnats flying around you cannot escape them (they are absolutely everywhere - even inside the mall).

I can think of similar situations in other parts of the country too. I guess you live in a relatively non-buggy, fairly low-pollen, and overall more temperate kind of climate.

Jen N
07/13/2007 09:57 PM

Question for you, Patrincia...i provide cakes for quite a few outdoor summer weddings (10-20 per year), and most of my cakes are covered with Mousseline buttercream or ganache. I have never, ever, seen or had a complaint about insects sticking to the frosting! Is this a problem you've actually experienced? I wonder if our climate & bug levels are happily low in Seattle, or if I've just been lucky & should start worrying! Please let me know.

Best,

Jen N

Patrincia
07/13/2007 02:46 PM

Hector - Yikes! I've seen wedding cakes placed under a veil of netting or tulle - similar to the way you would drape mosquito netting over a bed (not that you need any more to do on your already incredibly busy 11-tier cake day!).

Hector
07/13/2007 02:29 PM

Patrincia, bugs will be a BIG concern for the 11-tier WYC cake! I think I will need to construct a giant dome?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/13/2007 12:33 PM

Yasmin, you wrote a few weeks ago when i was away about the slightly curdled appearance of the batter. this is normal in most of my butter cakes and as you pointed out the baked texture is great so not to worry!

Patrincia
07/13/2007 12:07 PM

Annette - Yeah for Mousseline Buttercream, but be careful about bugs and pollen sticking to the buttercream. Also, if it's a really humid day, you may get a bit of condensation on the surface of your cake if you take it outside while it's chilled. The condensation should dissipate in time, but I thought I should mention it if you hadn't thought about that already.

Hector
07/13/2007 08:14 AM

Annette, are you using Mousseline Buttercream? It is the most stable and with hold up at even 90 degree weather. HOWEVER, I am certain it needs to be in the shade, even at 75 degree weather! Try bring an umbrella?

Annette
07/13/2007 06:48 AM

Help! I am making an end of the season cake for my grandson's baseball team. My problem is the field really has no shade, how long do you think the cake with buttercream frosting will survive in 75 degree weather.

nushera
07/13/2007 03:34 AM

Patricia/Rozanne, my pre-Rose baking experience consists of meaningless(or nonsense) steps like cooling cakes in pans with a wet towel underneath, even in the oven with the door half-opened... the question of testing such prmitive methods need not arise at all!
Hector, i had tried to avoid the marks from cooling rack by not peeling the paper-lining, but it seemed to lock some steam -> moisture. in fact, those fine marks don't matter if the cake is going to be frosted. and when you have the magic recipe of MBC or Ganache by Rose, u can't avoid frosting even the bottom of the cake!!!

Patrincia
07/12/2007 01:40 PM

Hi Rozanne - that's exactly what I thought would happen. Colette said she gives the upside down cake pans a good thwack and her cakes come right out - maybe it's her recipe? Anyway, I just wondered if anyone else did it that way.

Rozanne
07/12/2007 10:25 AM

Patricia, I once cooled a cake completely in the pan (not intentionally) and it was a complete disaster. The cake broke into pieces and was a big mess. Needless to say, I had to bake another cake. So, even if you get the courage to do it, I wouldn't advise doing it.
Rozanne

Patrincia
07/11/2007 09:09 PM

Rose - I would think the cake would stick inside the pan too. I don't think I'm brave enough to give that a try.

Theresa - Hooray for pre-cut parchment rounds!!! I love them, but like you, have only found 8" and 9" ones (and ones for angle food cake that have a hole cut in the center). I can't find them for larger size pans though, so I cut my own for those. If the cake pan is wider than the paper, I simply overlap 2 pieces.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/11/2007 04:44 PM

thanks theresa for the leap of confidence but honestly i only test things that seem promising or make sense. i see no advantage whatsoever in cooling a cake in a pan and only a disadvantage in that it will continue to cook slightly and possibly stick to the pan.
of course silicone pans are different and the cakes need to be cooled in the pans.

Hector
07/11/2007 03:51 PM

Patrincia, some cakes like to be cooled in the pan, some not. Some like to be cooled upright, some upside down! I follow what it says for each cake in CB.

Theresa
07/11/2007 03:08 PM

I have to admit that I cheat and use the precut 8" and 9" parchment rounds from King Arthur. But I doubt they come in the diameters you folks would need! I keep the parchment on until I frost the cake - even when I freeze unfrosted layers.

I have never heard of cooling cakes in the pans! (But I'll bet if anyone has tested it, Rose has!)

Patrincia
07/11/2007 02:50 PM

Thanks Hector (you're funny!). No, I've never tried to build a brick wall, but I could use a little brick something or other on each side of my driveway entrance :)

So you cool your cakes with the parchment, I guess I alway take it off right away. I don't think I've ever left it on until the cakes were completely cooled, but I'll give it a try next time.

Speaking of cooling cakes, I was just reading an exerpt from a Colette Peters book about how she completely cools her cakes IN the pans, before she turns them out. Have any of you tried that?

Hector
07/11/2007 02:40 PM

Patrincia, your cakes are the most ultmost leveled I've seen. Have your tried to build a brick wall (literally), lots of leveling and offset spatula work?

Me too, I use parchment or wax paper to line the bottoms of all my regular pans with flat bottoms (round, square, oval, sheet, hexagon, heart), and specially on the larger or moister cakes. It guarantees that no pieces of cake remain on the pan during un molding. Also, if your cake baked with a dome, when you invert, the paper prevents that cake to crack! And of course, it facilitates handling while the paper is still on. I cool my cakes with the parchment still on, and peel it off just prior to frosting; when possible, my cakes are cooling on the rack , with the paper side down, so the cake never gets marks from the rack.

The many uses of parchment paper, I am even starting to make little envelopes with it to hold business cards!

Theresa
07/11/2007 11:49 AM

Patrincia, that's good information. I haven't bothered with crumb coating in the past as I am usually in a rush. Would probably be worth the extra few minutes, though, especially on cakes that are very moist. You have convinced me! Good tip on not flouring the pan as well.

Patrincia
07/11/2007 08:58 AM

Patricia - Hi. "Crumb coating" is a way of sealing in any loose crumbs to keep them from getting into your frosting. This can be done by applying a thin coat of glaze, piping gel, or even a thin layer of frosting. I like to use a very thin layer of frosting. I start by removing a small portion of the frosting from the batch and I transfer it to a smaller bowl. I will "crumb coat" with the frosting in the smaller bowl, that way any crumbs that get mixed in won't ruin the whole batch of frosting. To begin, coat your entire cake with a very thin layer of frosting (don't worry if you see the cake through the frosting). Once that's done, put it in the fridge to chill for 10-15 minutes (long enough for the frosting to be firm to the touch). Now, don't use the small bowl of frosting anymore - start using the big batch of frosting you set aside earlier - and voila, you won't have any loose crumbs mixed into your frosting :).

I should also mention that this technique works extremely well with Rose's recipes (like the ones found in The Cake Bible). I think standard box cake mixes and canned frostings will only add to your problems in this regard. Also, I know other like to four their pans, but for butter cakes, I never flour my cake pans (I think it produced excess crumbs). I just spray my pans with non-stick spray and line the bottoms with parchment or waxed paper, and I've never had a cake stick ever (got that tip from my sister who worked in a bakery for years). PS - for bundt pans, I spray and sugar the pan - the sugar adds a sweet little crunch to the crust).

Patrincia
07/11/2007 08:24 AM

Hector - Yes, I always to crumb coat, but I rarely, if ever, pull up any crumbs (especially when using Rose's cake recipes). I tend to put several thin coats of buttercream on my cakes (chilling well between each layer), in order to get a really nice, smooth, level finished product. That's just the method that I've developed over the years, and it works well for me.

Hector
07/10/2007 08:04 PM

Patrincia, regarding crumb coating, do you always do it? I find it that I don't. I have been frosting cakes without any professional training, but whatever I do seems to work! I frost my cakes at once, and there are zero crumbs.

Patricia
07/10/2007 07:44 PM

No Maam, I never heard of crumb coating. What is it?

Patrincia
07/10/2007 03:16 PM

No, not with white chocolate.

Jennifer Schmitt
07/10/2007 10:40 AM

Hey everyone,

Has anyone ever made "sour cream ganache" with white chocolate?

Hector
07/09/2007 02:26 PM

Jennifer, I also find that heating the sugar to 248-250 is critically "high." If I ever go over, it becomes too thick and your buttercream ends with solid pieces of candy. What I do is use all tools and techiniques I have to make sure I reach this temperature properly. I have a candy thermometer, and infrared thermometer, and my eyes and a cup of cold water to test the hard ball point.

I do find that if I want to play it "safe" and heat it only to 220 or so (the sugar mix stays at this temperature for a long time before jumping to 240), my mousseline is not as stable!

Jennifer Schmitt
07/09/2007 12:53 PM

A question for Rose:

I have been successful making your mousseline buttercream many times. Your recipe calls for raising the boiling sugar mixture to 248-250 degrees before adding to the egg whites. (i'm guessing you already knew that :-) )Anyway my new baking textbook, "On Baking" calls for the sugar "not to exceed 240 degrees" in it's Italian Buttercream recipe which is otherwise the same as your Mousseline. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the difference in temperature? I can promise that I have no plans to deviate from your recipe because it's always been successful. I just thougth there might be something I could intrigue my teacher with!

Jen

Hector
07/08/2007 11:12 PM

Kyle, canned lichees are just as good as fresh ones. I would drain the fruit for a few hours in the refrigerator, save the syrup to moisten your cake. Half a few whole lichees for decoration as I did, and coarselly chop a few to mix with your filling. As you chop the lichee you should save the juice that comes from it, too.

Kyle
07/08/2007 07:53 PM

Hector,
That is really pretty(and I'm sure deelish). Any advice for me to use my can of lychees I picked up a few months ago to substitue as far as handling and placement?
K

Hector
07/08/2007 04:26 AM

I tried to make a quiet entrance at the Chinese restaurant where my nephew's party was held. But the 'Absolutely Delicheeous' cake created such a commotion, that even the wisest and oldest Chinese man stood up to greet (me and the cake). I felt honored, and I always feel my Chinese relatives can be so sincere about food (if you know what I mean!). Lichee is definitely a cultural icon for them, and I think I could not have done any better to make this cake a worship to the fruit.

Last night, when tasting the whipping cream during the cake assembly, I felt it wasn't sweet enough. But my worries were short gone tonight when I tasted the slice of served cake. The whipping cream was truly less sweet and a bit tangy since I added some lichee juice while heating up the unflavored gelatin for the super stabilized method. Lichee is so sweet and moist (and also sticky) that the fruit stuck on the sides of the cake made the adjacent whipping cream sweeter than when it was made.

One possible improvement, believe it or not, would be to use canned lichee or to gently blanch the fresh fruit with syrup. I used fresh lichee on this occasion, and my brother questioned "seems like your lichee may be over ripe, I have just had one that was on the sour side!" Lichee can be so sweet or sour depending on what specific fruit you bite that blanching them in syrup would have made them all more uniformly sweet!

There won't be that many Absolutely Delicheeous this month because the lichee season lasts only 1 month, and because it costs me $3 per pound! (which aren't that many).

Bake your life away (and eat as much lichee as you get hold of).

Elicia
07/08/2007 02:27 AM

Oh Hector, I agree with Rose! Lovely cake! Really ingenious to decorate the sides with lychee! Yummy!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/07/2007 10:55 AM

utterly lovely--looks absolutely delicheeous! (i think your sister-in-laws are pulling your chain saying they're not into cakes!

Hector
07/07/2007 05:10 AM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Nicholas2.html

Another cake, just fresh of the oven. Made just to satisfy my sister's in-laws, she told me today they are not into cakes, neither into chocolate! This I call Lichee Shortcake (Biscuit de Savoie moistened with Grand Marnier). I am happy with how it came out together; I was very brave (and skeptical) to cover the sides with peeled half lichees inside out, showing the characteristic brown eyes of the natural fruit centers, then placing the whole red fruits on top! Whipping cream, and center layer filled with some pieces of fruit, too. It is a Lichee cake, nothing more or less!

Patrincia
07/06/2007 11:35 PM

Hi Chris - Under baked cakes indeed can indeed fall in the middle, but usually not until they are cooling. You mentioned that your cake started to fall in the middle DURING baking - it's probably an issue with your baking powder or baking soda amounts (they have to be carefully measured, and be sure they are fresh). Also, you could be using a different kind of flour than the recipe called for. If you do a search on this blog, you'll get lots of hits on this subject.

Michelle
07/06/2007 11:04 PM

I would think that the cake sinking in the middle could be due to underbaking the cake. I think this is usually the case with most heavier cakes (i.e. carrot, banana, etc). Was it browning? If it was browning at edges and looked "done" and baked for the correct ampount of time, your oven may be running too hot.

Michelle
07/06/2007 11:04 PM

I would think that the cake sinking in the middle could be due to underbaking the cake. I think this is usually the case with most cakes. Was it browning? If it was browning at edges and looked "done" and baked for the correct ampount of time, your oven may be running too hot.

Chris
07/06/2007 10:58 PM

What could cause a carrot cake to sink or fall in the middle during baking?

Patrincia
07/06/2007 06:01 PM

Jennifer - very exciting! Will you fill us in on the details when a final decision has been made?

Rozanne
07/06/2007 03:52 PM

Congratulations Jen!!! That is indeed good news. I'm sure you will come up with great creations. Afterall you have the Cake Bible as your reference and guide.
Rozanne

Hector
07/06/2007 03:49 PM

Jen, thanks for sharing your exitement. Congratulations on the baking for the restaurant. Do keep us posted what you whip for them!

Hector
07/06/2007 03:35 PM

Jennifer, I think my sister is used to my "creativity" or change of moods! She should be expecting this because I told her we won't be able to add any coconut shavings on the colored sides. For sure, it is difficult to deal this way if I was to do this for business with clients... I drift too much!

Elicia, yes, I piped these on parchment and froze them. I think the sticks will hold thru our dinner party which will be at an air conditioned restaurant. The cake is sitting in the refrigerator now, inside a glass cake dome which I will bring with me, it should stay pretty chilled. But honestly, I think the Mousseline Buttercream piped like these sticks will hold up just fine!

Oh boy, I have an audience tonight. My dearest friend Deanna has volunteered to watch me cake decorating tonight! Her children are hooked with Food TV, and they call me Alton Brown (with a smaller forehead!). I plan to bake a few 6 to 9" Biscuit de Savoie (can I do this in 1 hour?), and by the time Deanna and her kids arrive up we can frost and pipe. Maybe they can help me do the coffee bean chocolate dipping. In any case, I have a molded cake made of the delicious cake sides I cut off from my nephews now colorful cake; these scraps were too delicious to discard!

Elicia
07/06/2007 08:02 AM

Jen - congrats! Wonderful to be supplying cake to a restaurant! Keep us posted on the cakes you develop, ok?

Hector - Nice combination on the sides! Just one question - will the points of the buttercream sticks keep upright or will it be taken out of the fridge only briefly before serving? I assumed you attached them frozen. In any case, I believe your sis will love this 'labour of love'!

Theresa
07/06/2007 07:25 AM

Jennifer - congratulations! That is high praise indeed! Hope you enjoy developing the cakes.

Hector - that cake looks mighty interesting, but the question is - does your sister approve??? (Didn't she say "white sides"?)

Hector
07/06/2007 05:29 AM

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Nicholas.html

3 layer Biscuit de Savoie moistened with Frangelico. Light Whipped Chocolate Ganache pool. Fruit flavored Mousseline Buttercream sticks: cherry quick "Cordon Rose Raspberry Conserve,” and dehydrated apricot “Lemon Curd.”

Veronica
07/06/2007 02:54 AM

CONGRATULATIONS. You are allowed to be excited. How wonderful baking cakes for a restaurant. That is a major complement. Veronica in Western Australia

Jennifer Schmitt
07/06/2007 12:46 AM

Hey Everyone,
Just wanted to share my good news. I had 3 varieties of my cakes tasted by some chefs who are friends of my sister. They had nothing but praise for the samples. THEN, the one who owns a restaurant, asked to have some cakes developed to serve at that restaurant starting in the fall. I am so excited! Thanks to Rose, who makes it all so easy to understand! BTW the textbook for my baking course isn't nearly as helpful or informative!

Jen

Patrincia
07/03/2007 01:36 PM

Jo-Ann - I think Rose is still out of town, but maybe I can help. Rose's wedding cakes to serve 150 are 6-9-12 tiers. The recipe for the White Chocolate Cream Cheese Frosting is also scaled to serve 150, so I think you should definitely make 2 batches for a 6-8-10-12 cake. You can freeze leftovers, but depending on the amount of piping you do, you might not end up with any.

As for the lemon juice - I'm not sure if the actual lemon flavor is that discernable or if it's just in the recipe to "brighten" the overall flavor of the frosting. Page 237 has the same recipe in a much smaller size (makes 4 3/4 cups). Why don't you play around with it a bit? You could divide the smaller batch up and try several variations and see what you like.

PS to Rose if you're out there somewhere. I just noticed you call this recipe on pg 237 Buttercream, and on pg 525 Frosting. I probably have a copy that's since been updated.

Jo-Ann
07/03/2007 12:37 PM

Hi Rose,

I was looking at your Cake Bible recipe for White Chocolate Cream Cheese Frosting. Am wondering if you thought it would work for the chocolate wedding cake I am making for my friends Nov. wedding. My concern is the lemon juice in the recipe. Do you think I should omit it and replace it with vanilla extract because the cakes are chocolate? How much vanilla should I use?

Also I will be making 6", 8", 10", and 12" layer cakes, all to be assembled on separate cake stands. The frosting recipe says it is for a tiered wedding cake. Would this be enough for my 4 cakes or should I double it?

As always thank you in advance for your help.

Patrincia
07/03/2007 11:01 AM

Hi Patricia - we share the same first name :).

It's pretty hard to avoid crumbs, but there are a few tricks you can do to keep them from ruining the finished appearance of your cake.

Are you familiar with the technique called "crumb coating"?

Patricia
07/03/2007 10:38 AM

Ms. Rose, Please help me learn how to make a cake without crumbs so the frosting won't be spreaded with cake crumbs. Thank you Maam!

Yasmin
07/02/2007 04:43 AM

Rose, over the last two weeks I have baked the All Occasion Downy Yellow cake 3 times, The Perfect All American Chocolate Butter Cake 4 times and the White Velvet Butter Cake twice. All the cakes have turned out well, but a few times I noticed the batter getting a curdled appearance...esp in the Chocolate and white cakes. I assumed it was because one of the ingredients was not at room temparature....and took great care to correct this the next time, but the batter still had a slightly curdled appearence. Can you tell me where I am going wrong..?
The cakes, however, have been great!!
Thanks
Yasmin.

Hector
07/01/2007 10:13 PM

Veronica, yes and no. I made that cake, but I first saw it designed from fellow blogger Matthew, he posted a picture here recently. All you need is find fresh mangoes and lay it around like a rose.

Veronica
07/01/2007 08:23 PM

Hector, are you the creator of that beautiful cake on the left? I clicked on the link above and was drooling. If you are the creator please let me know how. I love to attempt it.

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