Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

Hi Veronica - Recipes that are designed to use Dutch-processed cocoa will specifically list it. You can use either one really, but you will get the best results if you use the exact cocoa specified.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | June 27, 2008 11:22 AM #

i need help!

i have several recipes for chocolate cakes but they don't specify if it is natural or dutch processed cocoa powder

how can i tell?

Reply to this      Posted by: veronica | June 27, 2008 12:32 AM #

Rose & Matthew, thanks for your help. I'm afraid I can't do the experiment as my Sharffen Berger tin now holds Cacao Barry which I buy in bulk. I have many UK cook books including Linda Collister who works on both sides of the Atlantic, and none of them specify which kind of cocoa to use, so I'm assuming all cocoa here is alkalized.

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | May 21, 2008 8:56 AM #

Just out of curiosity, I got out both kinds of cocoa tonight to see if I could find any other ways to tell the difference. Color is the most striking, but also texture. Natural cocoa appears clumpy, while Dutch is more finely powdered.

I dissolved a teaspoon of each in a little cool water and added a bit of baking powder to see if the pH difference would be noticeable. They both foamed, but the natural process foamed almost twice as high and the bubbles were larger. If you have natural on hand, you might be able to make a similar comparison just to give you another bit of evidence.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | May 21, 2008 12:43 AM #

Matthew, they do list the ingredients. The Cacao Barry just says "Cocoa Powder" and the Green & Blacks is "100% Organic Cocoa Powder". I also have an old tin of Scharffen Berger I brought back from the States and it lists the ingredients as "Cocoa" but I believe it may not be alkalized anyway. I'm guessing that it's only in the US that the label indicates whether or not it is alkalized.

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | May 20, 2008 5:39 PM #

You can usually tell by reading the ingredients--if it says alkali or alkalized then it is Dutch-process. Do these brands not list ingredients?

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | May 20, 2008 5:01 PM #

Thanks, Rozanne. In UK I have never seen 'Dutch processed' on a label but have to believe if Green & Blacks and Cacao Barry are DP then they all are. Fine by me. Thanks for your help.

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | May 20, 2008 3:07 PM #

Annie, I know the Cacao Barry - Extra Brute Cocoa Powder is Dutch-processed. I'm not sure about their other varities. Here's a link to their website.

http://www.cacao-barry.com/

You can choose the country and language you want the website to be in. The option is on the top left hand corner of the screen.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | May 19, 2008 7:39 PM #

Does anyone from the UK know if Cacao Barry's range of cocoa powders are Dutch processed?

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | May 19, 2008 4:30 PM #

Thanks for your advice,Patrincia, I was assured by Rose that the US version would be alright ,so long as i was aware of certain differences in ingredients, and i do consult this blog frequently, I feel I know all of you, I see your names so often, you all seem to be very proficient bakers. I am not really into cake decoration but a keen baker but after seeing all your efforts it is so inspiring I may have a go yet!

Reply to this      Posted by: Jeannette | September 15, 2007 11:41 AM #

I haven't the US version, but yes, there's a lot of attention in the UK version to UK-specific ingredients (especially when it comes to flour).

So far, I've made the Yellow Butter Cake and then the White Spice Cake (to use up the leftover egg whites). Both were beautiful :-) If this helps at all, the Yellow Cake recipe uses 300g of sifted self-raising sponge flour and 1 tbsp + 1 tsp of baking powder. I used Doves Farm Organic SR flour.

Reply to this      Posted by: Kate | September 15, 2007 11:37 AM #

Jeannette - do be careful with your US version... the UK version includes ingredients more commonly available to you. Do a search on this blog, you'll read a lot about it.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | September 15, 2007 11:26 AM #

Hi, Kate, I was interested to read your comments because I too am in the UK and I also have The Cake Bible, but mine is the US version which I bought on Amazon, second hand but as new. I have been a little nervous of making any of the cakes so far but I have made Rose's cream cheese pastry which turned out beautifully, I was really pleased with it. Now I know your cake was so successful I will have more confidence to try some of the recipes!

Reply to this      Posted by: Jeannette | September 15, 2007 11:16 AM #

Hi, Kate, I was interested to read your comments because I too am in the UK and I also have The Cake Bible, but mine is the US version which I bought on Amazon, second hand but as new. I have been a little nervous of making any of the cakes so far but I have made Rose's cream cheese pastry which turned out beautifully, I was really pleased with it. Now I know your cake was so successful I will have more confidence to try some of the recipes!

Reply to this      Posted by: Jeannette | September 15, 2007 11:06 AM #

Well, I never knew that! Knowing that G&B's is Dutch is quite a key factor, really!

Thanks too for the pointers. Am I correct in thinking that the bicarb in the recipe is to neutralise the acidity of the sour cream, rather than to do anything in relation to whichever type of cocoa is used?

Reply to this      Posted by: Kate | September 15, 2007 10:52 AM #

Kate, I recommend that you also read the section on cocoa in the "understanding cakes" section in the back of the book.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | September 15, 2007 9:05 AM #

Kate, I use the Green and Black's cocoa powder and it is Dutch-processed. Rose recommended it. So you can go ahead and make the Domingo Cake without having to adjust the leavening. Also check out the chart on pg 440 of the Cake Bible, Rose gives the weight of 1 cup of Dutch-processed which is 92g lightly spooned and 1 cup of nonalkalized cocoa which is 82g lightly spooned. I don't know if it will be on the same page (440) since you have the UK version. It is in the Ingredient and Equipment section under Weights.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | September 15, 2007 8:47 AM #

I recently found (and bought) a 1988 UK copy of 'The Cake Bible'. What a revelation it has been! The Yellow Butter Cake is quite simply the best cake I have ever made. My daughter took one bite and asked immediately for another slice. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to make your recipe UK-friendly.

I would like to make the Chocolate Domingo Cake. However, I'm confused about the cocoa. I've never come across Dutch-processed cocoa here in the UK, but I understand that it's different from natural or unsweetened cocoa. I usually use Green & Black's cocoa powder, which I assume is unsweetened.

The recipe calls for:

42g (1/4 cup + 3 tbsp) unsweetened cocoa (preferably Dutch-processed)
or
1/2 cup nonalkalised cocoa

Baking911 states ...

"There are two types of cocoa powder: alkalized, also known as Dutch-process, commonly used in baking recipes and nonalkalized, also called natural."

... and also,

"If you substitute regular cocoa for Dutch-process or vice versa, you may need to adjust the leavening system to achieve the correct pH balance. That's because besides leavening, baking powder and/or baking soda contribute to texture, color and taste."

However, the amount of baking powder (3/4 tsp)* and bicarb (1/4 tsp) appear to remain the same, regardless of the type of cocoa used.

(*I discovered the omission of baking powder from my edition of the book here in your blog)

Here comes my confusion ... Should I use 42g Green & Black's because it's unsweetened, or 1/2 cup because it's nonalkalised? And are the quantities of baking powder and soda for a cake using unsweetened/nonalkalised cocoa or for a cake using Dutch-processed cocoa?

Reply to this      Posted by: Kate | September 15, 2007 8:07 AM #

I need to proof better :(

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 10, 2007 11:27 AM #

Hi Syd - assuming you used the correct size/type of cake pan, perhaps your pan was placed to high in the oven? The heat can really concentrate up there, which can cause the top of your baked goods to become over baked very quickly. Try lowering your oven rack so that the cake pan - ideally it should sit in about the middle of the oven.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 10, 2007 11:26 AM #

Hi Rose,

You're a dear for managing a website like this! I love your Pie Bible and have tried a few recipes from the Cake Bible though I'll admit I'm a bit intimidated by some of the cake recipes.

I've made many angel food cakes before but not chocolate. I just tried making your Chocolate Lover's Angel Food Cake and was uncertain about its being properly done. The top had been deeply cracked for some time so I was concerned I would overcook the cake if not careful, but the tester always looked a bit too moist. Nevertheless, fear bested me and I took the cake out at 40 minutes, and set it out to cool upside down. Well, about 5 minutes later I heard an odd sound from the kitchen, and found the cake splattered on the counter! I had a good laugh, but after tasting the cake I realized I've GOT to get this right so I can serve it to company! It's too good to be true.

Could the cake have been too tender just from being not quite done or should I look elsewhere for my error?

Many thanks,
Syd

Reply to this      Posted by: Syd | August 9, 2007 9:52 PM #

Jane,
You HAVE to try the Green and Black's. Rose recommended it and I tried it. It is absolutely fabulous!
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | June 3, 2007 10:06 AM #

Thanks for the reply and info. Yes, King Arthur's is a blend of dutch with black, so the flavor and color are great in baking. I haven't tried Green & Black's yet- will have to give it a try.

Reply to this      Posted by: Jane D. | June 2, 2007 10:13 AM #

Rose, have you tried King Arthur's Double Dutch Dark Cocoa? It's a blend of dutch-process and black cocoas, and I LOVE It in baking. Your cocoa brownies are even more delicious with it.

Do you know what black cocoa is?
thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: Jane D. | June 1, 2007 11:26 PM #

I love the dutch processed cocoa. I have had both Dutch Cocoa and Dutch processed cocoa but find it extremely difficult to locate. Can you help me find it? Thanks

Reply to this      Posted by: Dortha Boling | June 1, 2007 7:27 PM #

I am looking for a good passover Dutch cocoa. The one I used to use was by Bakers choice and I can no longer find it. Do you have a good source for this? Specifically for my brownie recipe. Thanks in advance! Dawn

Reply to this      Posted by: Dawn Robins | March 29, 2007 9:30 PM #

Thanks for the information, Rose.

By the way, there are companies like this one (I think it's a Costa Rican company):
http://www.cocoa.co.cr/products.html

that advertise their type of cocoa and chocolate products.

The darker the cocoa, the higher the pH.

I used my pH meter to test the two types of cocoa I have because I was curious to find out how different in pH they were. I'll try to bake a cake with the same recipe using both of them and then tell you my results.

I suppose there shouldn't be any difference since no one has mentioned it before on the net.

Juliana.

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | July 16, 2006 11:52 PM #

Hi Rose,

I read that Dutch-processed cocoa powder varies in pH from 6+(soft Dutch-processed) to 8+(strong Dutch-processed). So if a recipe calls for Dutch-processed cocoa powder and I bake 2 cakes using ph 6.6 for one, and ph 8.3 for another, will there be a difference in the thickness of the cake or the softness of the crumb, etc, if I use the same ingredients and same proportion of ingredients for both?

I mean, if one type of cocoa powder is more alkalized than the other, then with the same amount of baking powder, wouldn't the batter for this one rise less during baking?

Juliana.

Reply to this      Posted by: Juliana | July 16, 2006 12:18 PM #

Thanks Rose. I am indeed in the tropics... :-) in humid Singapore! And, 2 more years to wait for your new book...!!! argh!

I'd just like to know if it's normal for pure cocoa cakes to taste slightly sourish - as my cocoa angel food cake did.

Reply to this      Posted by: Daphne | May 22, 2006 3:30 AM #

Oh I forgot to add that I use Van Houten's cocoa which I believe is Dutch processed.

Reply to this      Posted by: Daphne | May 21, 2006 8:32 AM #

Hi Rose

I made the Chocolate Lover's Angel Food Cake, and it turned out quite well for my first angel food cake I think - although I've made chiffon cakes before. The cake tester came out completely clean and the top sprang back when pressed, but once I loosened the cake from the pan, I found the top of the cake as well as the part next to the inner tube, sticky. Did it need extra baking time?

And, to my taste, it cake had a slightly sour flavour - something I've noticed before with a chiffon cake made with cocoa. Is this normal? How does one achieve a deep-coloured, rich chocolate cake with a chiffon texture?

Thanks!
Daphne

Reply to this      Posted by: Daphne | May 21, 2006 8:31 AM #