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My Method for Mixing Layer Cakes
Altaf Question:
I've tried your lemon poppyseed pound cake recipe. They are delicious, my family loved them.
My question is: the mixing methoed you used is strange to me ( To mix the dry ingredients then add the add butter,liqiude.
Can you please explaine the name of that method why did you choose it?
Rose Reply:
i appreciate your asking this! the lemon poppyseed is my signature cake. the method of mixing i use for all my cakes in which butter is softened as opposed to melted as in genoise or oil cakes as in chiffon, is called the two-stage method in the cake baking industry. it had always been used only with high-ratio shortening but my claim to fame is that i worked out a way to use it with butter. this method results in a cake that is faster and easier to make and is more even and tender in texture. there is no disadvantage to using this method but it is important that the butter be cool room temperature (65 to 75 degrees F.) tbe best description is cool but squishable.
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Rose,
I just finished a marble cake, using your suggestion from a previous post to use bittersweet chocolate in 1/3 batter for sour cream cake (4 oz chocolate per 10.5 oz flour); however, I used the yellow base cake, as I needed to convert recipe for a 16-inch wedding cake layer. Found it worked well (texture was lovely), though I may have preferred a more "chocolatey" dark marble. I didn't want to risk overdoing the melted chocolate in the batter. I know from an unfortunate experience that the two parts of the marble have to be of similar consistency to bake evenly together. What would you suggest?
Thank you, thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge!
Reply to this Posted by: Lisa | October 17, 2008 10:31 PM #
if you're not traveling with the cake there is no need to drive a stake through the layers but if you do, it will be helpful to drill a hole a little larger than 1/2 inch in the middle of each support round or cut a cross to make the sharpened 3/8 inch dowel penetrate better. alternatively you could cut a 1 inch long X in the middle of each support.
i wouldn't worry about small holes or tunnels which may be a result of the butter being too warm or too cold or mis -measuring--i.e. too little leavening can cause tunnels.
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | March 9, 2008 5:04 PM #
Rose...you rock!!
I am making a 5 tier wedding cake [4-6-10-14-18"]. I Have made your "Rose's favorite yellow cake" [and many others]. I Love it more than downy yellow butter cake due to the added flavour and texture from the sour cream. It is a dream to slice. 3 questions;
1] I will be driving a dowel throuth the centre of the 5 tiers to prevent any shifting. How wide of a diameter should this main dowel be. The rest of dowels in each tier with be 1/4". I understand I need to sharpen the dowel and drive it into the cake with a mallet. I have this vision of me standing on a chair, driving the stake into my newly finished creation, at the wedding hall and it getting STUCK!! How does it go through the cardboard cake board under each tier. Sharpened yes, but it it really going to be sharp enough? Common sense tells me to cut a round 1" hole in the card board cake boards to allow it to pass with ease?? I am concerned these holes may end up weakening the structure too much.
2. The cake I will be using is your "favorite yellow cake", from this web site. I have scaled the batter into 6" square and doubled the recipe for scaling into 10" square pans with great success. How do I go about adjusting the baking powder for the 14 and 18" pans [I will be using 9" semi circle pans for the 18" tier as my oven will not accomodate 18" pans]. Hopefully, and I suspect, you will just tell me I can use the "Rose factor" charts using the basic butter cake in TCB as my base recipe and adjust the baking powder according to the rose factors. RIGHT?? This would simplify things eh.
3. Sometimes [not always] there are holes or tunnels in the yellow cake above. Am I overmixing or under mixing and at what stage in your 2 stage process am I needing to address this?
Again, you are the best!! It was a happy day when I added your Cake Bible to my collection. It was like finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. By the way, who makes glorious cakes for you?
Sincerely greatful Valerie Matteo from Canada.
Reply to this Posted by: Valerie Matteo | March 8, 2008 7:23 PM #
Rose...you rock!!
I am making a 5 tier wedding cake [4-6-10-14-18"]. I Have made your "Rose's favorite yellow cake" [and many others]. I Love it more than downy yellow butter cake due to the added flavour and texture from the sour cream. It is a dream to slice. 3 questions;
1] I will be driving a dowel throuth the centre of the 5 tiers to prevent any shifting. How wide of a diameter should this main dowel be. The rest of dowels in each tier with be 1/4". I understand I need to sharpen the dowel and drive it into the cake with a mallet. I have this vision of me standing on a chair, driving the stake into my newly finished creation, at the wedding hall and it getting STUCK!! How does it go through the cardboard cake board under each tier. Sharpened yes, but it it really going to be sharp enough? Common sense tells me to cut a round 1" hole in the card board cake boards to allow it to pass with ease?? I am concerned these holes may end up weakening the structure too much.
2. The cake I will be using is your "favorite yellow cake", from this web site. I have scaled the batter into 6" square and doubled the recipe for scaling into 10" square pans with great success. How do I go about adjusting the baking powder for the 14 and 18" pans [I will be using 9" semi circle pans for the 18" tier as my oven will not accomodate 18" pans]. Hopefully, and I suspect, you will just tell me I can use the "Rose factor" charts using the basic butter cake in TCB as my base recipe and adjust the baking powder according to the rose factors. RIGHT?? This would simplify things eh.
3. Sometimes [not always] there are holes or tunnels in the yellow cake above. Am I overmixing or under mixing and at what stage in your 2 stage process am I needing to address this?
Again, you are the best!! It was a happy day when I added your Cake Bible to my collection. It was like finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. By the way, who makes glorious cakes for you?
Sincerely greatful Valerie Matteo from Canada.
Reply to this Posted by: Valerie Matteo | March 8, 2008 7:22 PM #
Apricot glaze question?Is the glaze supposed to be hard after appling to the cake?I did let it boil and it is more of a rubbery texture rather than hard.Thanks for any help you can offer.Darlene
Reply to this Posted by: Darlene | February 11, 2008 8:02 AM #
Donna, re: White Velvet, I believe the Rose Factor charts are for 9x2 pans, whereas the recipe in the beginning of the book is for 9x1.5 pans.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | August 4, 2007 9:29 AM #
p.s. keep in mind that unless the square pan is perfectly square and not tapered, you will have to fill it with water to know the exact volume.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 4, 2007 8:29 AM #
sorry--i've been thinking about it and maybe the solution to it balling up in the mixer is first to cream it by hand the old-fashioned way til it softens a bit. sure you can try the dough hook if that works instead.
as for the genoise--yes you can bake it in square pans--just figure out the difference in volume as per the cake bible pan size recommendations.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 4, 2007 8:27 AM #
may be Rose and Hector are too busy to reply. Is there anybody else... Elicia, Patrincia, Matthew, Zach, Rozanne, Lori,...to solve the problems of the above 2 posts?
Reply to this Posted by: nushera | August 3, 2007 7:40 PM #
i have 2 questions:
1.while following recipes using the 2-stage method the mixture tends to ball up thru the beaters. though it becomes ok when all the liquid ingredients are added . can i mix all the ingredients using the dough hooks(i use a hand-held mixer) before finally beating them with the beaters?
2.is there any rule of thumb as to adjusting the amount of flour or eggs in sponge type cakes when baking in different size pans(ie, with different height of batter)? can i bake the French Genoise dividing the batter into 2 8" square pans(instead of 1 9"round pan)?
thanks in advance for any help.
regards, jenna.
Reply to this Posted by: Anonymous | August 1, 2007 2:44 AM #
Hi,
Why does the batter amount of the White Velvet Butter cake recipe on pg. 46 not equal the 9" White Butter cake/Rose factor cake on pgs. 490-491? Do they have differnt application?
Thanks,
Donna
Reply to this Posted by: Donna | July 29, 2007 10:05 PM #
Thank you very much, Rose.
Reply to this Posted by: Babs | June 17, 2007 3:47 PM #
you're right, apricot glaze is sufficient to seal in the crumbs before applying a single final coat of buttercream.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | June 17, 2007 11:55 AM #
Rose, I have a question regarding "crumb coating" a cake. I plan to use your white chocolate cream cheese buttercream for the final frosting. If I brush heated strained apricot preserves over the entire cake, do I still need to put a first coating of buttercream on the layers before I put the final coat of your white chocolate buttercream? Or should I put a watered down thin layer of this buttercream and then frost the cake with the regular white chcocolate cream cheese buttercream?
I tried to ask this question earlier, but I think it got buried under other questions. Thanks very much.
P.S. Am I wrong, or years ago, did cake decorators just brush the cake layers with an apricot glaze to seal in the crumbs, and then put a single final coat of buttercream on the cake?
Reply to this Posted by: Babs | June 17, 2007 9:34 AM #
Betsy - I believe the Shufra is from Holland, but I don't know if it's dutch processed or not (also think it's Kosher). What are the ingredients? If it says something like "cocoa processed with alkali" then it is dutch-processed, but if the only ingredient is cocoa, then it's not dutch-processed.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 20, 2007 4:39 PM #
the proof's in the cake! if you want to use it try a small test cake and compare (a 1 egg formula is about right for a 6 x 2 pan.)
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 20, 2007 7:44 AM #
Thanks Rose and Patrincia. I did read that blog post about the dry chocolate cake a while back and had a big aha moment, so thanks for the reminder. Will send photos...
One other question: We went to buy cocoa for the cake and the store owner was trying to talk me out of buying the more expensive Droste and buying Shufra instead. I asked if it was dutch processed and he said that it was and that he knew it was b/c other customers had asked and so he called the company. Anyone ever used this?
Reply to this Posted by: Betsy | May 20, 2007 7:39 AM #
Betsy - Congratulations to you both.
Good choice on the cake - I used The Cake Bible to make a ganache covered, chocolate butter wedding cake. The smell of chocolate permeated the entire reception hall, and I can't tell you how many people commented on how amazing it smelled (but even more of them commented on how amazing it tasted!).
One word of advice on the chocolate butter cake: be sure to read the thread entitled "Blogger Aaron Solves Dry Chocolate Cake Problem!" (you can find it by putting "dry chocolate cake" in the search box above).
Have a blessed wedding!
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 19, 2007 7:18 PM #
what a lovely story--i wish you both great happiness.
i have to say i really recommend three tier and the sheet cake(s) to supplement as they are so much faster to cut but if your dream is of a towering cake, then for the bottom 15 inch tier use 1/4 inch wooden dowels. send photos!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 19, 2007 1:18 PM #
Rose,
My fiance and I have been using the cake bible to make many delicious cakes over the years, including about 10 wedding cakes for friends and family. We owe much of our success to your book and helpful advice. Next weekend we'll be making our own wedding cake (chocolate butter cake with ganache and orange mousseline buttercream, I think) and we have a question.
Usually we make 3 tiered cakes, but this time we're going to try 4. In the cake bible, you suggest using wooden dowels in the bottom tier to support the other 3 tiers. How big in diameter should these dowels be? Thanks
Reply to this Posted by: Betsy | May 19, 2007 12:32 PM #
yes lovely patrincia. and i think they would make terrific cup cakes!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 18, 2007 5:16 PM #
Thanks Patricia!!
Reply to this Posted by: Michelle | May 18, 2007 5:01 PM #
Here is Rose's response from a past posting asking the same question:
cupcake-size is usually around 20 minutes, smaller start testing after 10.
fill the liners about 3/4 full. if using silicone pans you won't get dipping in the center but with paper or foil cups which have less stability you probably will get some slight dipping. it seems to help to let the batter sit in the pans for about 20 minutes before baking.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 5, 2006 3:48 PM
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 18, 2007 4:24 PM #
Wow!! I'm so glad I have found this blog! Rose, let me first tell you how the cake bible completely changed the way I make cakes.....and to rave reviews!!
I have recently moved and have yet to unearth "the bible", so i have a quick question regarding one of your recipes. My absolute favorite recipe is for the Golden Butter Cream Cake (i think that's the name of it)...it's so decadent and rich and I was wondering if it would be possible to make cupcakes with it? If so can you tell me if they would bake for a different amount of time? Thank you in advance for any suggestions you can offer me!
I look forward to your new book!
Reply to this Posted by: Michelle | May 18, 2007 4:19 PM #
i wonder if it's the cocoa butter in the white choc. that would make it more yellow and also until set more fluid. you could try setting the bowl of buttercream in ice water and stir gently. more white choc. will also make it firm more but you have to be careful bc white choc. has a "sharp" melting point which means it is solid until it starts to melt and then melts quickly. it also works in reverse, i.e. when it starts to set it REALLY sets fast.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 18, 2007 3:48 PM #
Thanks, Patrincia, for your suggestions. I appreciate them.
Now a question for Rose: Last night I made your white chocolate cream cheese frosting again, and it was so soft that it was hard to decorate with. Do you think I overbeat it at some point? I did notice there was a lot of air in the icing as I was icing the cake. I guess I must have had beginner's luck the first time I made this. Even the color of the icing was not the same. I know my ingredients were weighed properly. I even used a higher quality of white chocolate this time - at least it should have been. It definitely contained cocoa butter, and came from a baker's supply store.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe I added just a bit too much lemon juice, but what would explain the difference in color of the icing?
If this happens again, and this buttercream is too soft, should I just refrigerate it for awhile until it firms up? Or if I am pressed for time, like I was last night, is there anything I could add to it to firm it up a bit? Thanks very much.
Reply to this Posted by: Babs | May 18, 2007 6:50 AM #
I noticed the post regarding using the two stage method for mixing cookie dough. I use this method for virtually all of my cookie recipes, and it works very well.
I always mix my cookie dough with my Kitchen-aid stand mixer, and have never had a problem. It might be a challenge if mixing by hand, but I gave up on that method long ago
Reply to this Posted by: Tina | May 14, 2007 10:03 PM #
Babs - I'm not the professional here, but I would think a sugar syrup alone would easily evaporate from a cake, and I don't know about fruit glazes, but I do know that Rose's buttercreams work extremely well - the moisture of the cake won't evaporate through it (at least not within a reasonable length of time of course).
The "decorator's frosting" that you mentioned sounds like what some people mistakenly call buttercream - you know, the kind that is made with tons of 10x sugar, and crusts over as it "dries". Seems to me it was formulated to allow for at least some moisture loss in order to be able to form a crust (maybe not the best thing if you are trying to keep the moisture in). For the record, I think it's overly sweet (horrible tasting really), feels terribly gritty in your mouth, and is neither buttery nor creamy! In my opinion it shouldn't be referred to as, or confused with, a quality buttercream. I honestly don't know anyone who likes it.
I highly recommend you try Rose's recipes. You can borrow The Cake Bible from the library if you're not ready to purchase it (but I'm sure you'll change your mind quickly once you see how fabulous it is).
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 14, 2007 8:59 PM #
Thanks, Rose and Patrincia. This makes me think of a follow-up question: what is the best way to seal in the freshness of the cake: with a sugar syrup; a fruit glaze such as apricot preserves heated and sieved; or a crumb coat of buttercream such as decorating's frosting (that's mostly butter with just a bit of Crisco in it - sorry, Rose!) under the cream cheese buttercream; or a crumb coat of the cream cheese buttercream?
Thanks very much.
Reply to this Posted by: Babs | May 14, 2007 6:48 PM #
Babs - if you're only planning on storing your cake overnight in the refigerator, it shouldn't dry out if you've completely "sealed" in all the moisture with a layer of buttercream to protect it.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 14, 2007 4:43 PM #
it may not be safe bc of the cream cheese. it's fine to refrigerate it as long as it's served at room temp so the cake isn't cardboardy! glad you liked the buttercream!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 14, 2007 3:31 PM #
I realize this question does not follow the previous discussion, but I can't figure out how to post a new question.
Rose, I made your white chocolate cream cheese buttercream frosting yesterday for a carrot cake, and it turned out great. Not only did it taste great, and piped great, but the color of the frosting itself was such a beautiful ivory color that I am now thinking of using it for a wedding cake frosting. I'm making the wedding cake next month, and am wondering if this frosting would hold up if the finished cake were left in an air-conditioned room overnight, and then of course, the following day at the wedding reception. The cake will be a simple yellow cake (1-2-3-4 cake) with lemon curd filling.
I plan on brushing it with a sugar syrup (with some liqueur added) on the cake before I fill and frost it.
Do you think I need to refrigerate it? Or will the cake itself become too dry if I do that? Thanks so much for your help.
Reply to this Posted by: Babs | May 14, 2007 2:00 PM #
Merryll - Have you tested your thermometer to see what temp. it reads at just the moment when water comes to a boil?
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 14, 2007 7:16 AM #
wanda i've tried cornsyrup for this type of syrup as well and it doesn't work well, i.e. you still have to bring the mixture up to a specific temperature unlike in the neoclassic where you just need to bring it to a full boil. the best thing is to be sure to remove it from the heat just before it gets to the right temperature as most pans continue to hold the heat and the syrup rises. it could be your thermometer isn't accurate but in any case speed is essential in transferring it from the pot as soon as it reaches temperature.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 14, 2007 5:48 AM #
Can't wait to hear how it turns out! Please report back to us all.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 13, 2007 10:13 PM #
Dear Rose and Patrincia,
I thought I sent an answer to you both about my failure with the chocolate pound cake but can't seem to find it online. Guess I'm not great there either.
First, I'm amazed with this site, actually overwhelmed, and appreciate all this help and information.
I did use bleached cake flour, measured everything. But tomorrow I'm going to try the yellow cake and see how that goes. A friend thinks my problem might be my oven.
Merryll
Reply to this Posted by: Merryll | May 13, 2007 8:05 PM #
Rose, I tried the Lemon Curd and OMIGOSH is it WONDERFUL!. I added it to the Mousseline buttercream and it is really good, but it took me two tries to make it. The 1st time when I poured the sugar water into a glass container, by the time I turned around, it had solidified into a giant sugar cube.. (Obviously a little too firm ball... and I did use a candy thermomitor) I tried again and and it seemed to work, but when I tried to scrape the remainder from the jar, it too turned into a hard sugar ball as soon as the scraper touched it. I ended up leaving it out. I was wondering if I can use the corn syrup and water technique you describe for Neoclassic buttercream for the Mousseline? Thanks as always for your great advise.
Wanda
Reply to this Posted by: Wanda LaLoggia | May 13, 2007 2:39 PM #
thanks patrincia. incidentally, i never made this recipe in a larger size and doubt it would work well. but it does work well as a small loaf. meryll, you are using bleached cake flour right?
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