Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

You must have found the caramel powder Louise, because you certainly managed to get that deep dark pumpernickel color. Did the bread rise faster with the extra starter? I'm not sure about the bagels, but it would probably be a good idea to add some vital wheat gluten if you don't have high-gluten flour. The acid in starter does break down gluten eventually, but it usually takes a while--longer than the normal rise cycle. I wonder if having more starter sped up this process? It would be interesting to try it with the regular pumpernickel recipe and compare the differences.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | February 19, 2008 9:45 AM #

I baked the sourdough pumpernickel with too much starter (because I did not see the correction on the website) and it turned out great.

I made a loaf with raisins. I also made rolls with raisins and rolls with onions, caraway seeds and a little garlic - really delicious and as good as anything I have had in my favorite delis or restaurants. To make the onion filling, I added dehydrated onions and caraway seeds to store bought minced garlic - using the oil in the garlic to hydrate the onions. I used more onions than garlic. I put a little in the dough but I also rolled out the dough for the roll, put a shmear of the onion mixture and then rolled it up like they do in the delis. Here is a picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23486197@N03/2276567326/

The bagels just came out of the oven but I do not have high hopes for them. When I boiled them, they did not have the elasticity of the Levy's Bagels - just seemed like rolls shaped like bagels (which is exactly what they are!). Here is a picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23486197@N03/2275777449/
I wonder if I should have used high gluten flour? Anyone have any idea?
Actually, I just tasted a bagel and they taste delcious - just not like a NY bagel - more like an Einstein bagel (bready). Boiling the dough seems to have enhanced the flavor.

Of course, I baked the rolls and bagels less than the suggested time for a loaf, I just checked it with my instant read thermometer to 190 degrees.

I will definitely make the sourdough pumpernickel again. It is a multi day/ multi hour process but does not take a lot of work. Also, I definitely prefer it with the addtion of the rasins or onions.

Rose - thanks for another great recipe!
Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 18, 2008 10:54 PM #

Oh no - I just saw the correction to the sour dough pumpernickel that says (if using mixer) that I should have used 270 grams of starter but I used the 360 grams on page 462. In fact, I doubled the recipe so now I have 2 doughs rising, one with raisins (ala Joe's Stone Crab raisin pumpernickel rolls) and one with onions and garlic (ala the Rascal House rolls). But the dough has 33 percent more sour dough starter than it should. HELP!!! ANY SUGGESTIONS? Should I bother continuing the rise and baking it off? Louise
PS - I am going to write the corrections in my book right now.

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 18, 2008 11:33 AM #

A little more information about soudough pumpernickel please. In a post a few weeks ago you suggested that the pumpernickel dough would make good bagels.
At what stage would I shape the bagel?

Should I shape it at the shaping stage for the loaf (at the 5 hour rise)?

If so, can I put the shaped bagels in the refrigerator over night?

Then I assume I would take the bagels out of the refrigerator for 1 - 1 1/2 hours before I boiled and baked them. Any idea on how long to boil and bake?

thanks!!!! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 18, 2008 5:33 AM #

A little more information about soudough pumpernickel please. In a post a few weeks ago you suggested that the pumpernickel dough would make good bagels.
At what stage would I shape the bagel?

Should I shape it at the shaping stage for the loaf (at the 5 hour rise)?

If so, can I put the shaped bagels in the refrigerator over night?

Then I assume I would take the bagels out of the refrigerator for 1 - 1 1/2 hours before I boiled and baked them. Any idea on how long to boil and bake?

thanks!!!! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 18, 2008 5:32 AM #

Rose - please provide more detail on what you mean by breaking the pumpernickel at the 5 hour rise. My starter is fermenting for the 2nd time as I write this and I have been trying to figure out how I will get all those risings done in one day when I came across your lifesaving response to the prior question.
1. Would you put it in the refrigerator as soon as you shape it? If so, will it double in the refrigerator - which it would have if it rose for 4 - 5 hours on the counter?
2. How long can it stay in the refrigerator. Can it stay a day or 2? Will stayng in the refrigerator enhance the flavor like you describe with other doughs (like challah and hearth bread).
thanks, Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 17, 2008 11:31 PM #

Rose, I wonder if you could tell me how you normally schedule the sourdough pumpernickel. The mixing, rising, and baking day is about 16.5 hours, which I find difficult to fit into one day. I see a couple of places where the process could be broken--either the 8 hour penultimate rise or the 5 hour shaped rise. Do you stop at either of these places for refrigeration, and about how much extra time should I add when refrigerated?

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | February 8, 2008 12:28 PM #

Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: SteveR | September 10, 2007 7:05 AM #

Steve,
It won't be hard to convert this. You just need to do a bit of math to figure it out. This will be easy if you are doing your recipe by weight--by volume will be a little trickier.

If you are using a liquid starter, it should be about 1/2 water and 1/2 flour (by weight); if it is a stiff starter, is will be about 2/3 flour and 1/3 water. Depending on which type of starter you are using, add that amount of those ingredients back to your main recipe.

To create a sponge, mix all of your liquid with about 40% of the flour, about half of the yeast, and any sweeteners.

The only other thing you have to figure out is the yeast. I checked and Rose uses between .64% and .76% instant yeast (% of the weight of the flour) for her rye and pump breads. So, for every 100g of flour, you would use about a scant 1/4 tsp. of instant yeast. If you want to calculate it more precisely, 1/16 tsp. yeast weighs .2 gram.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | September 9, 2007 10:23 AM #

I have a black rye (pumpernickel style) that is a sour dough. I don't make it often enough to keep a starter going. When I do make bread, I have the time to do a pre-ferment. So... does anyone have any thoughts on how to convert a sour dough formula to a sponge or pate fermentee type formula?

Reply to this      Posted by: SteveR | September 9, 2007 9:47 AM #

I saw that Barbara DEFUNIAK posted on this sight. I baby sat her children a bizzion years ago. She was very kind to me and I would love to get in touch with her. Her children are Kathrine, Andy and David.

Reply to this      Posted by: Diana Artemis | August 22, 2007 5:17 PM #

I have a food science question for you. I recently made your rye bread and did the final shaped rise overnight in the fridge (following your general instructions for that in the Bread Bible).

I noticed that there were tiny little bubbles on the finished boule. They don't bother me, in fact I find them somewhat attractive in a rustic way, but I'm wondering if you know what happens during the slow cold rise to cause this.

Here is a picture of my rye.

I also found a picture of someone else's potato rosemary bread with similar bubbles (they also did a slow final rise [retard] according to their description).

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | April 15, 2007 12:51 AM #

These are instructions for homemade caramel powder. This recipe produces 20 grams of powder, enough for one recipe of Rose's pumpernickel bread.

This is a photo of the process.

1. Pour 30 grams of corn syrup (a little less than 1/8th cup) into a 2-cup glass measure.
2. Microwave on high for 2-3 minutes, watching carefully for when the syrup turns to dark brown/black.
3. Remove from microwave and allow to cool for 30 minutes (be careful as the container and its contents are extremely hot).
4. Break caramel (black jack) into pieces, place in a chopper or processor, and grind into a fine powder for 10-15 seconds.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | April 11, 2007 12:14 AM #

Help! I want to make the pumpernickel bread, but I live in a small town in Indiana that the groceries don't carry pumpernickel flour. Any suggestions as to where people find it i.e. Whole Foods. I'm willing to travel to locate if someone knows of a place in Louisville or St. Louis, or Indianapolis. Also what flavor of molasses. Mild, full or black - something. Yes, my grocery has 3 flavors o molasses but no pumpernickel flour or instant expresso powder. Instead of making caramel powder - where might I buy it. Again - not really good in the kitchen. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Reply to this      Posted by: Jennifer | April 9, 2007 10:34 AM #

Oh my, Rose! I just made your pumpernickel bread for the first time and it was heavenly! What is that other pumpernickel I have been eating? It pales in comparison to the real thing! I can't wait to try the sourdough version.

I couldn't find caramel powder locally, so I made some at home. I simply poured enough corn syrup to just cover the bottom of a 2-cup Pyrex measuring cup. I microwaved it for about 2-3 minutes, watching carefully for when it turned very dark brown/black (it happened rather quickly). I let it cool, broke the black jack into pieces, and ground it to a powder in the processor. I came up with 20 grams of powder. I will measure how much syrup I used the next time I make if anyone is interested. The finished bread had a wonderful dark color and there was no bitter flavor.

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | April 8, 2007 12:54 PM #

Rose - Thank you for your bread bible. I saw you make your Mushroom bread on the PBS show seasonings and was fascinated. I'm a disaster in the kitchen when it comes to cooking meals, but with your recipes and explanations, my breads come out perfect! I just love making bread and I'm not such a disaster in the kitchen after all.

Reply to this      Posted by: Jennifer | April 2, 2007 6:26 AM #

I think one of the problems with introducing the metric system in the U.S. is that people try to convert it back to the U.S. customary units instead of learning the metric units themselves. It's confusing to try to figure out how many centimers are in a foot or how many grams are in a pound since it is not a straightforward conversion. I wish we could just bite the bullet and convert everything over to metric in one fell swoop. Once people understand the metric measures for what they are themselves, rather than in relation to another measure(for example, everybody now knows about how much volume is in 2 liters of soda), it would probably be pretty easily adopted.

Reply to this      Posted by: Brian | April 1, 2007 11:27 PM #

Thanks so much! (now I really can't wait for the new book to be released)

Your paragraph is very interesting - I never really knew anything about the metric system before.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | March 31, 2007 5:07 PM #

Danielle - here is Rose's definition of "scant" from a posting on June 28, 2006:

scant means "not quite" for example a scant tablespoon means not quite to the top.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | March 31, 2007 4:07 PM #

What is a scant cup of sugar in baking??

Reply to this      Posted by: Danielle | March 31, 2007 3:06 PM #

I am trying rye bread in my bread machine and it keeps falling - what can I do to maintain the rising?

Thanks

Reply to this      Posted by: BARBARA DEFUNIAK | February 2, 2007 11:20 AM #

A report on the rye - a great success! This was my first recipe using the Bread Bible and everything went exactly as described. I didn't have access to a mixer so I did everything by hand. I let the sponge ferment for about an hour at room temp and then close to 24 in the fridge. The dough mixed exactly as described = a little sticky at first and then really easy to knead after letting it sit for 20 minutes. I used the Harvest King flour in place of the bread flour and then I baked it using the no-knead bread technique. I have been using my All-Clad 6 qt stockpot for the no-knead bread, so that's what I used. I preheated the oven for about at hour at 450 with a baking sheet on the lowest level and I also preheated the lid to the stockpot. I put the dough in the stockpot for it's final rise with some cornmeal on the bottom. When the dough was ready I put the stockpot in the oven on the preheated baking sheet, put on the preheated lid and cooked it for 15 minutes at 450, lowered the temp to 400 for 10 minutes, then removed the lid and cooked it for another 20 minutes (when I took off the lid, I could see the steam rise out of the stockpot). The bread rose beautifully and had a nice texture and golden brown crust.

Reply to this      Posted by: Brian | January 1, 2007 2:27 AM #

Franz, I have recently made sourdough culture from the Bread Bible which is active and have made several successful sourdough breads since. Rose's measurements and conversions are precise. As a matter of fact I just recently purchased a new scale and to test that it was weighing accurately I would measure by volume then weigh it on the scale amd the conversion was spot on. You will be very pleased with the results.
Oriana

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | December 31, 2006 1:57 PM #

You tell them Rose. Patience is key. Knowledge of sours is the hidden secret to all sour based breads. Controlling,feeding,restoring are crucial. Sometimes you just have to start all over.
SR

Reply to this      Posted by: Steve | December 31, 2006 1:11 PM #

Hello Rose.
I bought your book "the bread bible" a few months ago.I wish to cogratulate you on your impessive book with the exquisite illustrations.About a month ago I read someone's comments about your book which were not very flattering.His main complaints were about measurment conversion. I thought, at first, that he may have been confused and perhaps mathematically challenged.But when I recently took a close look at your instructions for making a sourdough starter from scratch I foud that there is,indeed,some confusion about measurment conversions.Perhaps,this has already been brought to your attention. If not,here are my comments.On page 432,Day 1 it says:-a scant cup/4.2 ounces/120 grams organic rye flour-.
The 4.2 ounces should be more like 10 ounces.Later on it says:You will have about 1cup/8.5 ounces."Under Day 3 it says:-throw out about half of the starter(about half a cup-)which is more like 3/4 cup.Under day 5 it says:"-a scant 1/2cup/2ounces-".
Perhaps future editions could improve a little in the area of conversions.
Again congratulations on a beautiful and very instructive and helful book.
Best regards,Franz Conrads

Reply to this      Posted by: Franz Conrads | December 30, 2006 9:16 PM #