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Adding Rye Flour to Bread Dough
SCOTT QUESTION AND COMMENTS
Your Bread Bible is my favorite Christmas present this year. I spent
almost four months in Germany on business this summer and can't handle
store-bought American bread anymore, so I've gone back to baking my own,
something I learned from my mother and grandmother--although they always
made white bread and I longed for the great European style wheat/rye
breads. The first thing I did was use your sponge method on my favorite
bread recipe and was amazed at the difference.
So thanks!
In Germany I came across a great bread called Gassenhauer, my favorite
of the many breads I ate over there. It's a wheat/rye sourdough with a
gorgeous crust. Apparently it's trademarked, though, and I haven't been
able to find a recipe anywhere. Ever hear of it? I'd sure like to make
something as close to that as I can manage in this country.
Now a question: I made your Tyrolean Torpedo to go with the New Year's
Eve bean soup I made, and it went over really well--although I can think
of a couple things I could have done better. My wife and our guest
thought I was crazy saying it could have been better, but you know the
drill. It's never quite good enough, especially on the first try. They
enjoyed it and I dissected it. And then enjoyed it. But--what I really
learned to love when I lived in Austria for a couple years in the
eighties and on my German stay last summer is that taste of a combined
wheat and rye bread. I know you say you shouldn't substitute, but what
would happen if I replaced some of the flour in the Tyrolean bread with
rye?
Anyway, thanks again for helping me push my bread to a higher level and
helping to guide me on my quest for really great bread. If only I had a
better oven. The quarry tiles help a lot, but still...
ROSE REPLY
coincidentally, i'm making the tyrolean bread tomorrow for a party friday night. it's one of my favorites and i add about 75 grams/2.6 oz. of week-old starter (i still use the same amount of instant yeast) and an extra 1/8 teaspoon of salt since the starter has no salt in it. this gives it more depth of flavor, and keeps it fresher longer not that any of it will remain by the end of the party! i sometimes replace some of the flour with durum flour. it would be fine to do the same with rye but you have to be careful not to use too much as even with the acidity of the sourdough the pentosans in the rye will cause it to be gummy. i would start by replacing no more than 20% of the flour with rye.
re the german bread--i totally agree--i adore the breads of germany. i never had the pleasure of encountering the "gassenhauer"--anyone out there hear of it or have a recipe? i'll ask hans welker of fci next time i speak to him as he's from germany and surely knows.
i'm so thrilled when other people get excited about the breads i love so much. thanks for sharing! do let us know how the rye works with the tyrolean!
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Comments
I have just returned from a 2 week vaccation in Germany. I also fell in love witht the bread there. I visited many friends and one makes his own bread. It is dense and chewy. Rye and wheat are used along with a sourdough rye starter. He grinds his own grains as well ! I have asked him to email me the recipe and will pass it along when it comes in. Does anyone know the name of this bread? We were in the Allgau region.
Kathy
Reply to this Posted by: Kathy | July 24, 2007 6:09 AM #
Dear German Bread Lovers, I have spent 12 years in that wonderful country with bread so memorable that a 10 year old learned to cook so she could try to make bread. The closest I have come is a book:"Rustic European Breads" by Linda West Eckhart and Diana Collingwood Butts. It is also using bread machine to mix dough. Published by DoubleDay 1995. ISBN 0-385-47777-5. The recipe for French Farm Bread on page 102 is very close in texture and crust. Of course nothing matches the memory of DreiKorn Brot or Brottchen.
Storm
Reply to this Posted by: Storm Bergin | June 25, 2007 6:31 PM #
um... buoni, realmente buoni luogo e molto utile;)
Reply to this Posted by: campioni | March 15, 2007 11:41 PM #
first of all ursula somehow your posting did not appear on my server so i was unaware that it was there. thank you very much for your contribution.
nadi, i don't know where you live but the french culinary institute's head break baker (in ny) hans welker is from germany and could teach you how to make real german rye. they have all sorts of different programs there--even week long bread courses, so you might like to get in touch with them.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | October 27, 2006 1:47 PM #
iam looking for a bakry or a school or an old shop were i could learn about the real germen rye bread.
i have stuided for a wile,but iam looking for the real thing and to learn it from the real people.
I will be happy for any help i can get.
Reply to this Posted by: nadi | October 25, 2006 1:03 PM #
I've added rye to the torpedo a couple of times with acceptable success, but I still miss the good German and Austrian wheat and rye mixes, and especially that delicious Gassenhauer.
I still can't find a Gassenhauer recipe, but I have learned that it is about 60 percent rye and 40 percent wheat, with a sourdough starter made from rye flour and water, and about 80% water-to-dough. I haven't tried to figure out a recipe based on knowing that (I pretty much need to be given actual measurements and don't trust myself to try to figure them out.) I've found a couple of web sites that talk about making Gassenhauer. They're in German, but that doesn't bother me. The one that comes closest to telling me how to make the bread is : http://www.brotdoktor.de/Qualitat/Gassenhauer/body_gassenhauer.html
That Web site also includes some comments about problems with the instructions provided. If I were a better food chemist, I could probably figure out how to make it from those instructions and the commenter's corrections.
Reply to this Posted by: Scott | July 5, 2006 8:44 AM #
I am very interested in Ursula's recipe. I am struggling with the problem of how to increase the proportion of rye flour without the gumminess problem.
Reply to this Posted by: Bob | June 30, 2006 5:14 AM #
Dear Scott, contact me by phone or e-mail,
I am gladly help you to bake the real sourdough German bread which I eat every day. I am German, so I know what you are
talking about. My husband thinks it's the ultimate bread, it takes a big time
but it is worth it.
Go to Google:Phonebook: type in my name and Riverside, CA you will have my phone#.
Hope hearing from. I love to share the joy of baking the best bread and whole-
same bread of the world.
Ursula
Reply to this Posted by: Ursula G. Lundgren | January 13, 2006 1:27 PM #
I have just developed a wonderful sour
doug bread nearly all whole grain of 50/50
wheat and rye. If anyone is interested please tell me how to post my recipe on your bulletin board.
Thank you Rose for making it clear that a
sour dough needs "bottled" water to be successfull. I tried for years until I read your bread bible. Thanks from the
bottem of my heart.
Greetings from California
Ursula
Reply to this Posted by: Ursula G. Lundgren | January 5, 2006 7:54 PM #