Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

this is awesome Sherrie, i use mines for all foam cakes (genoise, biscuit, chiffon, and also the oblivion torte).

be sure it is the same one, there are many many matfer balloon whisk models.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 29, 2009 2:58 PM #

Hector,

You've inspired me to get THE whisk...located a reasonable retailer in Canada after several emails/etc. one is on its way!!! More info. in the forum.

Sherrie

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 29, 2009 1:45 PM #

sherrie, so glad you work hard, and so fortunate you can get fresh wheat!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 28, 2009 6:01 PM #

Rose and Hector, you are both so generous and gracious. I've halted genoise production for the time being as my freezer is too full and I have exhausted my egg supply (last minute, I baked the golden luxury butter cake for the convocation cake -- filled and frosted as described...garnished with 12 raspberries and white chocolate shavings). I will be checking out these other videos on youtube...how wonderful to have Rose appear in my own home :) I have had success with the classique genoise -- I was actually trying to avoid making a sugar syrup...funny how things spiral. You know, even the poorly risen golden genoise, is still quite delicious and I can just imagine what the additional volume would do for the texture.

My sincerest thanks to both of you.
Rose, totally unrelated, but I absolutely love your golden honey oat bread recipe ...my father farms in Saskatchewan and I have an unlimited supply of Hard Red Wheat which I grind fresh for every batch (I often make dinner rolls out of it, too). I have made it using 50% ww and it is fantastic.

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 27, 2009 11:21 PM #

oh sherrie, one more thing, you may want to try the classique genoise first, or biscuit de savoie, these are great learning cakes for folding technique.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 27, 2009 5:28 PM #

dear sherrie, hector here.

i TOTALLY love the golden genoise, often i try to use it instead of a traditional american butter cake. it is a lighter cake (vs an american butter cake), but it is one of the denser genoise. and i am loving your flavor combinations on how to fill this wonderful cake.

i follow exactly as the recipe is written on cake bible.

what i suspect the issue is, in the folding. try watch one of the youtube videos where Rose uses the giant jb prince balloon whisk, how much good folding means, on the orange glow chiffon, the oblivion, for example.

i have used many many folding devices, including my mother's famous rubber spatula which she used for her most gorgeous chiffon cakes, but my conclusion is that only 1 thing works best: the giant jb prince matfer whisk, second is the mixers whisk. if you are making genoise or biscuit part of your repertoire, it is worth getting the jp prince whisk at any cost. i had it shipped to my brother in washington, was reasonable, and he brought it over with him to hawaii thinking it was one of those oversized kitchen gadgets one hangs for display.

another piece that works also very well is a straightened oversized slotted skimmer (watch rose's 1988 video for orange glow chiffon). i actually prefer it over a spatula or the mixer whisk.

keep the progress, the effort, the reports, and questions coming. this is a cake where manual technique shines, and i don't see it better explained than at Cake Bible! (and after all these years now we have videos on youtube)

/H

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 27, 2009 5:14 PM #

Hi Rose,

I am so appreciative of your assistance. Is that the case for Golden Genoise? In my edition of TCB, the directions do not indicate combining the beurre noisette with some of the batter for Golden Genoise (but it does for White Genoise or Genoise Classique). Perhaps that is the missing link! The reason I mentioned drizzling, is because when I added the beurre noisette in 2 stages as directed, I found it hard to incorporate. I usually don't have this much trouble with your recipes :)

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 26, 2009 11:36 PM #

OK...I've now turned my efforts to the golden genoise and while remotely better, the end result is not near what it should be. The cake rose to about 2" when baking (in 9" springform), but was bubbly on the top. Two questions:
1. Can I overbeat the egg yolk? In my K5 on high, they were beaten for 8 mins. They filled the bowl about 1/2 way -- close to 3x original volume. They were heated to 110F with the sugar (I used a whisk to stir).
2. The problem, I think, may be because I didn't fold the beurre noisette enough. How much incorporating is enough? I think I am so cautious of deflating the egg, that I under mix. The bubbles, I think were due to the bottom of the bowl (top of the cake) having a greater concentration of fat. After cutting the cake to investigate, there was a layer at about 1/4" above the bottom that seemed to be a darker, oilier color. The beurre noisette, perhaps? On a positive note, I didn't have a flour "nuts" :) I did use a whisk that has very few tines -- it did not seem to deflate the mixture too much. However, I added the beurre noisette in two portions, pouring all at once then mixing. Do you think drizzling it in gradually while mixing on low speed in the mixer would be a better option?
I am determined to get one of these two cakes into my repetoire...my hopes were to bake a sample wedding cake for my sis in law as her convocation celebration cake. Planning to fill with Raspberry Fruit Cloud Cream and top with White Chocolate stabilized whipped Cream. I've tried the Mouselline BC and while it is beautiful and gorgeous to work with, and a divine texture, it is too rich for my palate --but I have no problems with whipped cream...yum yum.

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 26, 2009 6:43 PM #

Thanks for all of the replies. I always measure by weight unless it's a small quantity (vanilla, etc.). I will go back to using the genoise classique or golden for the time being. I like the idea of marking my bowl to better analyze the situation. I only removed slightly more than 1 cup (as I was making 1.33x the recipe) of egg white. FWIW, I found my resulting "flops" to be rubbery and tough...so does this indicate an egg white beating issue or something else?

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 26, 2009 12:10 PM #

Sherrie, as Rose suggested use the whisk attachment from your KA. That's what I do and it works well. I don't have the JB Prince whisk either. I live in TO and can relate to the outrageous shipping cost to Canada.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | May 26, 2009 10:26 AM #

Sorry to hear this, perhaps I would try the classique first, as the white is more sensitive.

Did you measure by weight or by sifted on meassuring cup? Too much flour deflated the folding.

Did you scoop just one cup of whites for the beur nois? And was the neur nois warm? It should be warm.

Mark the level on your mixer bowl after the whites are whipped. I roughly loose 1/3 volume when folding the flour, but when adding the missing cup of whites with beur nois, then the final volume is not less than 1/4.

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | May 26, 2009 12:47 AM #

After two attempts, I'm afraid that something is not right with my genoise. I am baking the White Genoise in 9" x 2" round pans but I have scaled the recipe by x 1.33 to account for the larger pan size. I've warmed the egg whites to 110 F, used super fine sugar, changed to Swan's Down flour. I am certain the first failure is because I added my sugar too late as there were bubbles on the top of the egg whites, prohibiting my view beneath and they were overbeaten. The second time, I think that beating the eggs went well. I don't have the wonderful balloon whisk Rose speaks of (really hard to find/buy in Canada and shipping is outrageous) so I have used a salad serving fork and spatulas -- perhaps I'm losing volume upon incorporating the flour. The only other modification made was to add vanilla bean seeds to the beurre noisette instead of orange rind. My oven temps. are usually not a problem. I am open to any suggestions for mastering the genoise.

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 26, 2009 12:22 AM #

sherrie, i am blushing... the volume i achieved is the same volume Rose achieves in Cake Bible. Yes, 110oF is right for the recipes calling to warm the eggs on a double boiler or on your mixer bowl suspended over a pot of simmering water.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 25, 2009 8:06 PM #

Since you achieved such volume with your Genoise Commandments, I wasn't sure if less batter was required (ie: half full pans, versus 2/3 full).

Oh, and what temp. do you heat your egg whites to? 110F?

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 25, 2009 6:00 PM #

i can't recall what my technique is, but i would scale it up plus 1/3 more as 2" vs 1/5" pans.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 25, 2009 2:35 PM #

Thanks Hector,

I am wanting to make the White Genoise in 9" x 2" pans, but didn't know if I should scale up the recipe (as in TCB it says 9" x 1.5" pans) or just follow your technique and use the unscaled recipe in my 2" pans?

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherrie | May 25, 2009 2:21 PM #

Hector, thanks so much, these tips are great! This has always been a challenging cake for me, can't wait to try it again with your help.

Reply to this      Posted by: Julie | May 11, 2009 6:28 AM #

I would like to report the 'secrets' of White Genoise. Here are the additional commandments to The Cake Bible:

1- since the egg whites doesn't have creme of tartar, avoid whipping past the soft and stiff peaks phases. creme of tartar is the magic wand or insurance that almost always gives you perfectly whipped whites even when you overwhip.

2- when adding the water, beat slowly till just incorporated; the egg foam will start to shine glossy, and the consistency will resemble softer than soft peaks. if you overwhip till stiff peaks form again, the whites will be too stiff to accept the flour. as indicated on the recipe, the water gives elasticity to this recipe.

3- be sure to add NO more than 1 scant cup of the whites mixture into the butter mixture. otherwise there will too few whites in ratio to flour, and the whites/flour folding will deflate and become a thick flour batter.

4- oven temperature should be between 350-375oF for a quicker set and initial rise. the cake will rise near twice, and when it starts to brown lower the temperature back to 325-350oF

That is how I finally achieved a White Genoise that will rise in the oven near twice in height!

i think making White Genoise is the ultimate practice to master how to properly whip egg whites (since you don't have the creme of tartar protection) and how you can tell that you are folding the whites/flour/butter mixture without deflating.

the cake batter filled the pan 3/4 full and rose in the oven 1 inch above the pan. here some pictures, and also how am i warming up my egg whites with induction.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/HectorHawaii4-0_c_DaHous_White_Genoise.html

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | May 10, 2009 4:09 PM #

Thanks for the encouragement. You know, I didn't check the butter weight after I clarified it. Hopefully, that will be the simple answer to my problem. I'm going to try again and by this time tomorrow I'll have a perfect genoise! Maybe.

Reply to this      Posted by: Noele | February 23, 2009 12:00 PM #

golden genoise is my fave, too. much tender than a yellow cake. great way to use yolks from mousseline!

golden rule for al genoise: never open the oven door, also unmold immediately.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 20, 2009 10:02 PM #

Noele, keep at it, genoise is my favorite category of cake from the Cake bible! Well worth mastering. And the breadth and variety of Rose's genoise is pretty amazing- someday, try the goldden genoise!

Most books say to heat the eggs to 110F. You don't have to beat for ten minutes if you are using a Kitchen Aid stand mixer, that time is for hand mixers. You do loose some volume when folding, but that is built into the recipe.

Perhaps your oven is slow/cool? Or you didn't check butter weight after clarifying? I recently discovered my butter is extra-rich, it makes more buerre noisette than TCB states, surprise!

Good Luck!

Reply to this      Posted by: Julie | February 20, 2009 8:50 PM #

Cool, a water bowl attachment. I didn't know there was such a thing. I'm always looking for a reason to use my blow torch, so I'll give that a try. I'll let you know how it goes. This cake really has me perplexed, but thanks for your help!

Reply to this      Posted by: Noele | February 20, 2009 8:44 PM #

I can't remember on my notes, but needs to be warm, not hot. You don't want to cook the eggs. Actually I use a blow torch to heat the bowl while beating, but more often so I use my water batch attachment with very warm water.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 20, 2009 7:55 PM #

Could be. I'm going to focus on the eggs temperature next time around. Would you say 100 degrees is adequate?

Reply to this      Posted by: Noele | February 20, 2009 7:41 PM #

maybe you are heating the eggs too hot?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 20, 2009 6:58 PM #

No worries! I'm actually enjoying the challenge. Well, my flour is definitely not rancid. In answer to your other questions-yes, yes and yes. :) I am heating the eggs, but I've been winging it so next time I'm using my thermometer. I've beaten the eggs up to 10 minutes and it seems as soon as I turn the the mixer off (it's a Kitchen Aid stand mixer) the volume starts to go and as I fold I lose a little bit more volume.

Reply to this      Posted by: Noele | February 20, 2009 6:50 PM #

Noele, I am so sorry of your frustration. Genoise is one cake you want to master as it is great! I woudn't think the volume issue is due to the flour, unless the flour is rancid.

Are you heating the eggs? Are you beating till the indicated volume (sometimes it takes longer than the indicated time, depending on your mixer speed).

r u loosing volume when folding?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 20, 2009 5:59 PM #

Dear Rose,

My mom gave me The Cake Bible when I was 18 yrs. old (right when it came out) and I loved it so much that I've added the Pastry and Bread Bible to my library. Everything I've ever made from your books has turned out perfectly, except for the genoise. I'm not a novice to angel food and chiffon cakes and have made a fair share of roulades so I thought I'd try my hand at the Charlotte. I've made 4 attempts and I'm lucky if I get an inch in height before it's trimmed. I'm curious about 2 things. If my cake flour is old, could that affect the volume and also, the next time I make it (I'm not going to give up until I get it right) would it help if I didn't grease the sides of the pan?

Thank you so much for your time and any help you can give me!

Reply to this      Posted by: Noele | February 20, 2009 5:00 PM #

Christian, here is the link to Carole Walters site. Scroll to the bottom and there is a "Contact Carole" link.
If you have a KA mixer, you can use the whisk to fold in the flour for the genoise by hand till you purchase the whisk from JB Prince. Alternatively, use the mixer with the whisk attachment to mix in the flour. I hurt my wrist once and did this and it worked pretty well. I only lost about 1/4" from the finished height.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | February 1, 2009 9:50 PM #

Christian, ALWAYS reuse/recycle what comes out of your kitchen. I don't run thru the drain a drop nor toss in the can a crumb of anything that can be eaten. You will be surprised, as your great tiramisu, that one thing can unintentionally lead to another great thing.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 1, 2009 6:29 PM #

Thank you for the help Rose and Hector. That reference to JB Prince is absolutely a winner. I didn't realize that there was such an awesome shop online where I could purchase all my baking needs. Will purchase some of those treasures once I graduate this May!

Another question for Rose: I have been a fan of Sachertorte and have made several cakes over the last few years. The recipe I use comes from Carole Walter's Great Cakes. The recipe is very good, but there are times when I find that it falls and gets soggy in the middle (again, inconsistency with baking that I find lacking in root or source). I wanted to ask you if you were familiar with the recipe and with any reason as to why such a thing would happen repeatedly to a butter cake. Is there a way to prevent this from happening? Do you have a good recipe for Sachertorte that you can potentially share with this baker.

P.S. All those genoise that didn't fly turned into the base of a fabulous Tiramisu. There's an idea for the baker in the event that one of their cakes don't go splendidly.

Reply to this      Posted by: Christian Ocier | February 1, 2009 3:41 PM #

you have no idea how many times I felt puzzled with the same question of what is gentle folding when incorporating fluor on foam cakes. I grew up with my Mom as the chiffon queen, really, NOBODY could understand how well she folded fluor and I believed the rubber spatula she used was a magic wand.

In my opinion, you got it right by paying attention how much volume is lost after the folding is done. Any spatula, whisk, or skimmer will work, but the best I have ever seen perform for folding on the KitchenAid artisan or pro 600 is the JB prince 18" diameter ballon whisk.

Also, regarding the 5 minutes, it depends a lot on your egg temperature and room temperature and mixer type, so give and take a few minutes more or less till you reach the 2x or 3x volume as indicated on your rcipe.

BTW, my Japanese chef makes 60 quart genoise batches and he folds the fluor with his hand, arm, and elbow, no whisk!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 31, 2009 11:09 PM #

Thank you for the reply Rose. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the kitchen supply store.

I was wondering if my whisk has something to do with this whole ordeal. I moved to college four years ago and had to start my kitchen from scratch. I had an amazing balloon whisk at home that I unfortunately left behind, so I got this OXO whisk (made of plastic) with tines that seem to be a couple sizes larger than the standard metal ones. Would that deflate the batter?

I made three genoise this morning and the last one seemed to work better, but it still wasn't as glorious as any of the ones I made in years past. I'll try to use the Kitchen Aid whisk to see if something different happens.

One more question: Does tapping the cake pan on the counter (to release bubbles) deflate the batter?

Christian

Reply to this      Posted by: Christian Ocier | January 31, 2009 10:01 PM #

Dear Rose,

I wanted to let you know that I have been using your books for seven years now and that I have bee a fan of your fantastic work. I I have, however, recently had problems with your genoise recipe. I can't get it to go above 1/3 of the pan. I need some help. I have followed your recipe to the letter (including the 5 minute beating time, warming the eggs, etc.) and have not had success yet with a cake that essentially defined success for me for the past five years. I need your help. I don't know what I am doing wrong and I've been wasting ingredients in the kitchen. What advice can you give? Is a whisk not advisable for use in a genoise? How do you define "gentle folding"? Please reply to this.

Christian

Reply to this      Posted by: Christian Ocier | January 31, 2009 9:24 AM #

Bernadette, I am so sorry for you feared experiences.

The Moist Chocolate Genoise recipe is perfect as it is. You don't need to change it one thing. No heating of the eggs and no cornstarch. But be sure you start with room temperature everything, and that your dissolved chocolate is at room temperature. If your dissolved chocolate remains warm it will increase deflation.

It is a denser genoise, so you reach a lesser volume than a typical genoise.

Makes wonderful chocolate madeleines, too!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | July 7, 2008 6:25 PM #

Hector,

Regarding my posting of 6/21, thanks very much for your answers to my questions. Just a little
explanation to my ideas about using cornstarch, and possibly heating the egg mixture. At the end of the Moist Chocolte Genoise recipe, Rose has a page entitled "Pointers for Genoise Success". In there she mentions both cutting her flour amount with "50% cornstarch", and possibly heating the egg/sugar mixture over hot water. HOWEVER, since you can make the cake successfully, and I cannot, I will try it with straight flour and NO cornstarch.

Also, on page 381 of the cake bible Rose gives 4 different methods of
quicktemping the chocolate for the praline sheets, I used method number
two, and added vegetable oil to the chocolate. Perhaps you use an
alternative method of tempering, If so, I would be curious to know which
one, and if you recommend my trying that.

Thanks again for the continued response. I'm slowly regaining my courage to
try this cake again! :-')

Bernadette

Reply to this      Posted by: Bernadette Andaloro | July 4, 2008 12:28 PM #

Hector,

The recipe did not call for cream of tartar, so I didn't include it. I usually try to follow TCB exactly. The whites were indeed older, they had been frozen.

Thanks,
Julie

Reply to this      Posted by: Julie | June 22, 2008 5:13 PM #

Hector,

The recipe did not call for cream of tartar, so I didn't include it. I usually try to follow TCB exactly. The whites were indeed older, they had been frozen.

Thanks,
Julie

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | June 22, 2008 5:12 PM #

bill, make wonderful cake crumbs to top off a coffee cake or use as filling for a bear claw! or just toast it and eat like a cookie!

or run it thru foo processr and fold with whipped cream and make a cake trouffle.

I have had my fears of genoise!

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | June 22, 2008 11:44 AM #

I always use cream of tartar so I wouln't know the white issue! also eggs whites should be a few weeks old in the shell or previously frozen as fresh of the hen eggs never whip.

please no ropes when whipping whites.

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | June 22, 2008 11:38 AM #

Rose,

I've successfully made genoise classique and genoise au chocolat several times, but I've never yet been successful with white genoise (p. 127 TCB). This last time, the layers were one inch tall instead of the specified one-and-a-quarter inches.

I don't think it was the oven temperature, if anything the oven was a little on the hot side and they were done (cake shrunk from the sides) in the minimum time suggested.

Could the problem have occurred with beating the whites? I started adding the sugar at the soft peak stage, but instead of reaching full stiff peaks after all the sugar was incorprated, the whites became viscous. The base of the peaks looked firm, but the tips drew out into a rope. I continued beating for a little while longer, but the texture did not change so I proceeded with the recipe, adding the water and then folding in the other ingredients.

Should I have kept beating longer? Do whites reach stiff peaks with all that sugar in them? I was afraid of overdoing it, especially without cream of tartar.

Thanks for helping,
Julie

Reply to this      Posted by: Julie | June 22, 2008 10:55 AM #

I had my first collapsed genoise this week. I've made many many genoise before this is the first time I've had a problem. I think I was too aggressive when I folded in the dry ingredients...tried to eliminate the little pockets of flour. But there was the batter in the pan...clearly deflated...filling it barely 1/2 way. And optimistically, I baked it and got a really labor intesive Pancake. Anyway, this was one of three cakes for my Mom's 70th B-day party...so I had no choice but to start over. And start over I did...at about 11;30 PM. Finally finished...filling, buttercream and all after 3 AM. The next night was a coconut cake and a chocolate layer cake. again...like 3 AM. I saved the collapsed genoise, wrapped it well and froze it. Any suggestions as to what I can do with it? Oh...and by the way...Mom's b-day was a success...lots of happy cake eating people...and a request for a Bar Mitzvah cake from a relative...but quite some time in the future.

Reply to this      Posted by: Bill | June 22, 2008 10:40 AM #

I've had collapsed moist chocolate genoise, and always due to insufficient oven heat or opening the oven door too soon.

I always beat the eggs until the volume in the recipe is reached, it often takes longer minutes than indicated in the recipe.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | June 22, 2008 5:42 AM #

Hi Rose-

I recently tried the "Triple Chocolate Cake" recipe in The Cake Bible. For days I looked for a chocolate cake recipe that seemed to be the "best" in terms of taste and elegance, but with dramatic presentation. It was for the birthday of a very special friend. When I read your note in the book about you having received several marriage proposals after serving the cake, I thought I had found the perfect answer to my problem. Luckily I made the cake for myself before making it for my friend, and I just ruined it!!

I just read your blog concerning your disappointing genoise. That was the most disappointing part of my cake too. I just wanted to ask, if I should have warmed the eggs first. The recipe didn't say I should. Also, how is this done when a standing mixer is used? I want to try the cake again, but I'm scared to death! Thanks very much.

Bernadette

Reply to this      Posted by: Bernadette Andaloro | June 21, 2008 6:35 PM #

I don't know if this is of any help, Annie, but I live in N.Wales and I bought Rose's Cake Bible last year from Amazon. On rose's recommendation I bought the US publication and I find it fine save for the differences in our flours but I have used Kate's method of microwaving the flour and have had some success albeit not as good as if I was using US cake flour of course! I have spoken to two others in this country who have the UK edition and they would much prefer to have the US version, I think that IS available on Amazon at the moment. Good luck and let me know how you get on.
Where in Scotland are you? My husband is from Dundee.

Reply to this      Posted by: Jeannette | May 17, 2008 4:18 AM #

Thanks, Rozanne, I did find the discussion thread on all the flour issues that the Brits and Aussies are having, so apologize for not having seen it sooner. I'm definitely going to try the microwave method - kate flour.

I went on to amazon.co.uk and see the British version is not available BUT it's possible I might be able to source the paperback one at a price - I'll have to do some searching.

The good news is that I have not had ANY issues with any recipes I've made from the Pastry or Bread Bibles since moving here.

Rose, will you have a UK/Australian version of the new book?

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | April 24, 2008 4:49 PM #

Annie, re the UK edition of the Cake Bible, have you tried a used book store or Amazon? I know the publisher was Macmillan.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | April 24, 2008 12:30 PM #

Annie, this topic has been discussed in detail on this blog (do a search for kate flour)and on Kate's website http://amerrierworld.wordpress.com/kate-flour/

Hope it will help you. Good luck.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | April 24, 2008 12:04 PM #

I have moved back to Scotland after living in the US for many years. I am unable to get cake flour here and am also unable to get the British version of the Cake Bible as it's out of print and seems to be unobtainable. Rose, what flour should I use in place of cake flour and should I change the quantities? I have no problem with bread and pastry but cakes seem to be more hit and miss. I did order some cake flour from KAF and they sent it Airmail but the cost of postage was more that the cost of the flour! Any advice appreciated.

Annie

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | April 24, 2008 11:46 AM #

One last comment regarding almond genoise:

I made almond genoise by substituting toasted, finely ground almonds for the chestnut flour in TCB's chestnut genoise. The result was a cake that was denser and lower in height than classic genoise.

I found the flavor of almonds was overpowerd by my using amaretto syrup in the proportions specified in TCB. In my opinion, the substitution was not really worth the extra time, effort and loss of light texture. Perhaps this technique is best used in cakes with little or no syrup.

Lastly, my cake sunk slightly in the center upon cooling, so this substitution may require a longer baking time than the original recipie.

Hope that helps anyone attempting almond genoise!

Best,
Julie

Reply to this      Posted by: Julie | April 24, 2008 7:03 AM #

Hi everyone; I just wanted to comment on an earlier topic about using almond flour/meal in genoise cakes.

Genoise is my favorite cake to make as I find it so forgiving. I often use between 50 and 100% ground nut flour (almond, hazelnut, walnut or pecan). I use the nut that goes best with the cake I'm making. For example walnut/orange, Hazelnut/chocolate, almond/lemon, etc.

What I really wanted to share, though, is that I NEVER add the ground nuts while beating the eggs. I treat them as flour:
* First, I combine the warmed egs with sugar in an electric mixer with a whisk.
* While the mixer is running, I sift the ground nuts together with whatever flour, cocoa, grated chocolate, spices or other dry ingredients I'm using.
* When the eggs have reached the 'soft peaks' stage, I fold in the dry ingredients (alternating with folding in any melted, cooled, chocolate/butter.)

I find this is an incredibly forgiving recipe...I have experimented a lot with using different ingredients and it always comes out delicious.

For the nuts it is important that they be finely ground. I either grate them myself with a fine rotary grater or buy them pre-ground from Trader Joe's.

Happy baking! -Jessica

Reply to this      Posted by: Jessica E | April 1, 2008 3:34 PM #

Bill, we must be on the same wavelength! Just after I posted, I thought to myself, "Why not make the whole recipe of frosting and just freeze the leftovers for cupcakes?"

Now that I have the half-size round pans, I've put a 5-to-6-cup Bundt pan and an 8-cup angel tube pan onto my "wish list." (Those are half the "standard" sizes.) Terrible the way buying one good kitchen item just makes you want more... ;)

Reply to this      Posted by: Barbara A. | February 22, 2008 9:43 PM #

Barbara:
I too will make half size cakes using 7" pans. Works really really well. I usually make a full batch of frosting, since 1/2 recipe will cover the cake, but it feels a little stingy. I freeze the left over frostings in ziplock freezer bags and use it for cupcakes (as rose suggests in the cake bible). When I have several bags of different frostings in the freezer, I bake up a batch of cupcakes and can have a variety of different frostings...and almost no work!

Reply to this      Posted by: Bill | February 22, 2008 2:53 PM #

Teresa, Rose's suggestion is great, but you could also just bake smaller cakes. A 6-inch round pan holds just about half as much as a 9-inch round pan. If I have a recipe I want to try and I don't want to make a full-size cake, I just cut the recipe in half and use the smaller pans. You do have to guess a bit at the baking times. And you might end up needing a bit more than half the frosting because the height of the cake is still the same even though the surface area of the top is half as much.

I always bake full-size pies, though, because my husband loves pie so much!

Reply to this      Posted by: Barbara A. | February 20, 2008 10:34 PM #

I just bought the Cake Bible and I love it. I am a culinary student, about to graduate, and my main interest is baking. I really want to get into cakes more. Anyway, I can relate to this story because over the weekend I made your Cordon Rose Cream Cheesecake, I didn't allow it to refriderate overnight though, it was more like 3-4 hours. I was making it for my neighbor. When I plated it, it cracked in several places. So I learned the same lesson. Always follow the recipe!!! I love your book by the way and can't wait to buy more of them. P.S. Because of cost, I feel bad baking and just giving it away, but it just me and my man. What did you do with your product when you were learning? I'd like to bake more often, but don't want to waiste it.

Reply to this      Posted by: Theresa | February 19, 2008 5:19 PM #

Rudy, I've been reading your question on Genoise. I beat the eggs over a hot water bath, all the time, until the eggs has tripled in volume. Sometimes it is more than the time on the recipe! At this point the consistency is almost like meringue.

I use my KA water bath attachment, the water IS touching the mixer's bowl, the water temperature is not boiling or simmering, it is just hot, hot enough to dip you finger in for only a few seconds before hurting. To keep this temperature, I gradually add boiling water as the water bath cools down.

I am not an expert on genoise, will be interested on what Rose has to say on this take.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 3, 2008 12:57 AM #

Rudy- Congratulations on your Genoise-success! Rose's recipes are sure to give great results unless you are using different type of ingredient(s). if the flour you use is not bleached make sure you give them the "Kate-flour" treatment. use cake strips while baking and cake pans with "straight"(not sloped) sides. you can even consider increasing beating-time by 2(=1+1)minutes. you are going to get the same height as in Rose's photo.

Reply to this      Posted by: nushera | February 2, 2008 9:15 PM #

Hi Nushera,

I just tried making the cake with your suggestions, and... SUCCESS!! What I didn't do before was place the mixing bowl over a pot of simmering water. I had thought it was too dangerous so I just placed it over a bowl of very hot water. This time, the cake emerged over 1 inch high with a leveled top. Thank you for saving me! Next time I'm going to use a large balloon whisk for folding in (I only have a small one now) and see if I can get the same height as in Rose's photo. :)

Rudy

Reply to this      Posted by: Rudy | February 2, 2008 8:03 AM #

Rudy- humid weather shouldn't matter much as egg whites aren't being whipped separately in this recipe. i use a hand mixer too. i beat for a total of 10 mins(place the pyrex bowl on a pan of simmering water on the stovetop- the pan's rim fits the bowl and the bowl's bottom doesnt touch the water- for the first 5 mins of beating, then the rest of beating goes on after removing the bowl from heat).
are you adding the flour through a strainer and folding with a large balloon whisk?
have you watched this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TASHGBCdmgw

Reply to this      Posted by: nushera | February 2, 2008 12:21 AM #

Hi Matthew,

Thanks for coming to my rescue! You brought up an interesting point - my cake was baked (ie, the edges started shrinking away from the pan) after just 15 mins, not the 25-35 mins stated in the book. Could this hint to something?

My oven is brand new, so it shouldn't be the temperature. And I don't open the oven door till the cake is done, so it's not that either.

What consistency is your egg mixture after you've beaten it for 10 minutes? I live in Singapore where it's very humid. So it may affect beating duration. Going by egg mixture consistency is more accurate for me to go by.

Please write back soon - I'm dying to try it again for the 4th time!

Rudy

Reply to this      Posted by: Rudy | February 1, 2008 9:31 PM #

Rudy,
I make this with a hand mixer too. The last time I made this is when I made the mango-rose cake last summer--so I don't remember every detail about the texture. I do know that I beat the eggs for 10 minutes until I reached the specified volume. You also have to make sure everything is warm to get the full volume. It doesn't sound like you're deflating it while folding because you initially have good volume--the structure collapses later. I wonder if if the structure is not setting in the oven for some reason--not hot enough or the door has been opened? Does it bake in the normal amount of time?

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | February 1, 2008 9:44 AM #

Hi Rose and everyone,

I've baked the Genoise Classique three times and I'm close to pulling my hair out! Each time, the height is under one inch, never the glorious one and a half as promised in the Cake BIble. I have the following question:

Exactly how long should I beat the eggs and sugar? I tried 8, 11 and 14 minutes (I use an electric hand beater) and they all result in a flat cake. When placed in the oven, it rose quite nicely but after about 10 minutes, the entire surface starts to fall.

The instructions to "triple the volume" is a little vague, so could someone tell me what consistency should I be looking at? The egg mixture should have a stiff and upright peak when I lift up the beater, or should the peak droop? Or should there not be a peak at all, only a ribbon trail that floats on the surface for a few seconds?

Thanks everyone. Any comment is appreciated. Save this girl from her misery!

Rudy

Reply to this      Posted by: Rudy | February 1, 2008 3:31 AM #

Hi Rose and everyone,

I've baked the Genoise Classique three times and I'm close to pulling my hair out! Each time, the height is under one inch, never the glorious one and a half as promised in the Cake BIble. I have the following question:

Exactly how long should I beat the eggs and sugar? I tried 8, 11 and 14 minutes (I use an electric hand beater) and they all result in a flat cake. When placed in the oven, it rose quite nicely but after about 10 minutes, the entire surface starts to fall.

The instructions to "triple the volume" is a little vague, so could someone tell me what consistency should I be looking at? The egg mixture should have a stiff and upright peak when I lift up the beater, or should the peak droop? Or should there not be a peak at all, only a ribbon trail that floats on the surface for a few seconds?

Thanks everyone. Any comment is appreciated. Save this girl from her misery!

Rudy

Reply to this      Posted by: Rudy | February 1, 2008 3:28 AM #

Hi Rose and everyone,

I've baked the Genoise Classique three times and I'm close to pulling my hair out! Each time, the height is under one inch, never the glorious one and a half as promised in the Cake BIble. I have the following question:

Exactly how long should I beat the eggs and sugar? I tried 8, 11 and 14 minutes (I use an electric hand beater) and they all result in a flat cake. When placed in the oven, it rose quite nicely but after about 10 minutes, the entire surface starts to fall.

The instructions to "triple the volume" is a little vague, so could someone tell me what consistency should I be looking at? The egg mixture should have a stiff and upright peak when I lift up the beater, or should the peak droop? Or should there not be a peak at all, only a ribbon trail that floats on the surface for a few seconds?

Thanks everyone. Any comment is appreciated. Save this girl from her misery!

Rudy

Reply to this      Posted by: Rudy | February 1, 2008 3:26 AM #

If you are using all-purpose flour, I would imagine that could make it tough as well. Rose uses a mix of cake flour and corn starch, so there is very little gluten.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | December 16, 2007 10:21 PM #

C Ann, tough meaning deflated, like rubber or a lemon bar? More info on how you made this, by stand mixer or by hand? did you heat the eggs and beat until it doubled/tripled volume?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | December 16, 2007 7:24 PM #

I have been experimenting with genoise. Mine is tough. Any suggestions?

Thank,
C Ann

Reply to this      Posted by: C Ann | December 16, 2007 6:00 PM #

Weeping Cheesecake
This was a first for me making this cheesecake the ( Cordon Rose Cream Cheesecake) I did follow the instrustions and now the finished cheese cake is well kind of lumpy and it is weeping water. Lots of water. I know the oven is OK temp wise did I just not bake it enough. It tastes good, (Well anything with cream cheese and sour cream and sugar would.) I just wonder what I did wrong

Reply to this      Posted by: Thomas W parker | August 31, 2007 2:44 PM #

Patricia, Hector, Nushera and Elicia, thank you for your concern. You guys are so awesome. You are not only my baking support group, you are also very caring people.
Hector I like your comment "I am sure great things will come with cake!"
Patricia, sounds like you got a years worth of baking supplies. I envy you.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | August 13, 2007 5:07 PM #

Hi Rozanne, So sorry to hear abt your bout of mishaps - hope everything is well now, especially for your kiddies! Do take care of yourself and get some good rest!

Was away too over the weekend - up north with the kids to attend a function. Glad to hear your cakes turned out well - well, they can only turn out well from TCB, right? You're most welcome, and glad to be of help!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | August 13, 2007 11:22 AM #

Rozanne- hope yr bad patch is over by now. Patrincia- thank God u returned b4 that tragic accident!
Take care.

Reply to this      Posted by: nushera | August 12, 2007 6:14 PM #

Hi Hector - I was visiting Minnesota (we lived there for 6 or 7 years). I returned the day before the terrible bridge collapse - so very sad.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 12, 2007 4:57 PM #

Rozanne, sorry to hear all this damage! I am sure great things will come with cake!

Patrincia, that was quite a nice vacation! Which State did you go? Talking about kitchen stuff, I've just picked up my electric sifter.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | August 12, 2007 2:50 AM #

Hi Rozanne - sounds like you had it rough recently. I hope your elbow, and the kids are feeling better now - poor kiddie winkles :( I've had a deer throw itself at my car before (why do they do that?!!) - thankfully very minimal damage to report (btw, deer hits are usually considered to be "comprehensive" on you insurance).

Thanks for asking about my trip - I had a great time. The friend I was visiting asked if I would help with a last minute dinner for 13. She planned the meal and I cooked it - the dinner was a great success, but the shopping, dry run, and prep for it consumed quite a bit of our time for several days.

The rest of the time we spent visiting new stores that have opened since I left the area, and some favorite old places like Penzey's Spices and Sweet Celebrations. I'm so glad I traveled with an extra large suitcase that had lots of spare room, because it was jam packed when I left - I had to remove a few items so it didn't go over the 50 pound weight limit. I stocked up on extracts, vanilla powder (haven't tried it yet), lots of herbs, pounds of cocoa, salts, dried fruits, pasta, amazing smoky paprika, edible pearl dusts, extra large pastry tips, a few kitchen utensils, a new bundt pan, chocolates, pin-head oats, etc. After I checked my luggage in I was afraid someone was going to find all my goodies and steal them, but they were all present and in perfect condition when I returned home :).

But the best part of the trip was being able to see some very dear friends again, the closest of which hosted my stay - it's the most comfortable home away from home you could imagine!

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 11, 2007 11:45 PM #

Elicia, thank you so much for the tips and advice. The castle and duck cakes turned out really well. Rose's White Chocolate Cream Cheese Buttercream was sooooo good. The party was outdoors and the buttercream held up quite well but the next time I will reduce the butter so it will hold up better.
I'm sorry I didn't thank you sooner. I have had quite a few challenges thrown my way. We took the kids to a fair, I went on one of the rides with them and somehow I flipped over, hit the side and burned by elbow from the friction. A few days later a deer hit our vehicle and the back of it is completely wrecked. As if that wasn't bad enough the four of us (kids, husband and I)got stuck in an elevator last week. We were in there for 2 hours before anyone knew were stuck. My kids were terrified and refuse to ride in an elevator. I'm glad all that is behind us now. Sigh!!!!!!

On a happier note, Patricia, what fun baking / cooking stuff did you buy when you were on vacation?

Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | August 11, 2007 3:51 PM #

thanks a lot for your kindest attention. God bless you.

Reply to this      Posted by: nifar | July 29, 2007 10:11 PM #

yeah, i assumed u would be referring to smaller servings. so did i (quoting 'Rose') to many of my friends. But now i am really in trouble with my digestive system and the toungue becomes terribly intollerent to sweetness(i am not a diabetic). just wanted to be sure if the degraded texture is being caused by dropping the sugar.

Reply to this      Posted by: nifar | July 29, 2007 7:20 PM #

i have been following the cake bible for a decade and never got a single mishap. recently i have become badly sensitive to sugar and tried to make genoise, biscuit and butter cakes with half/two-third sugar quoted in the recipes. butter cakes turned ok but genoise, bdr and bds came out a bit wet(weepy). texture was fragile. is that normal with less sugar?

Reply to this      Posted by: nifar | July 29, 2007 1:41 AM #

Thank you Elicia. I'll wish them.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | July 27, 2007 2:48 PM #

Rozanne, I think you will have buttercream to spare! I'm sure your kids will love the cakes - wish them Happy B'day for me!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | July 27, 2007 9:27 AM #

Elicia, thanks for reminding me about wrapping the cake in foil and wet paper towels. I always use the cake strips on my cakes but when it comes to 3D pans I tend to forget. Yes, the cakes are for my kids' party this weekend.
I will be piping stars on the duck so I will need more than what you used on the bear cake. I am making Rose's White Chocolate Cream Cheese Buttercream which yields 4 3/4 cups. I guess it will suffice. What do you think?
Will try to post pics.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | July 27, 2007 8:27 AM #

BTW, is it their b'days today? On the same date? Are the cakes for them? Do post pics of your lovely kids with the cakes, ok?

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | July 26, 2007 10:22 AM #

Oh Rozanne, kids at those ages are a handful! I only need to worry abt my 5yr-old and 3yr-old! Then again, my 5-yr old boy pinch a little off the perfect crumb 3D bear's ear! Thks to frosting!

If you're piping stars, you may need a little more. I just applied the bc with a spatula and stuck on the choc shavings! Hope you are using Wilton's cake release - no crumbs whatsoever! And did I mention before that I wrapped the cake tin with foil, slipping a layer of wet kitchen towels inside the foil? It is easy to shape the foil around the 3D shape - and the crumb won't turn too dark, just a nice golden yellow.

Do share pics of the finished cake! Good luck!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | July 26, 2007 10:20 AM #

Thanks Elicia, that's helpful. The duck cake will be about the size of your bear cake. I don't have to guess the quantity of the buttercream now. I wish my kids could help me but they are too young still (my oldest turned 4 today and the youngest turned 18 months today).
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | July 26, 2007 9:58 AM #

Hi Rozanne, I think I used abt a scant 1 1/2 cups buttercream - just a light covering for the choc shavings to stick on. There was some leftover.

It's quite a task doing the castle and duck with an injured wrist! Hope your kids are helping!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | July 25, 2007 10:00 PM #

Thank you Elicia. I try to take care of my wrist but with all the work I have to do with the kids it is next to impossible to rest it. I'm sure you can relate to my situation since you have young kids too. Do try the slow speed whisking, it works. I'm glad to hear that you beat your eggs for longer than 5 mins too and that it helps with achieving the optimum height.
I have to make 2 cakes this weekend - a castle and a duck. I hope it turns out well. By the way do you remember how much buttercream you used when you did the bear cake?
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | July 25, 2007 9:56 PM #

Rozanne, I've also recently discovered that beating a little longer ensures a very stable foam. Most of the time, I make a genoise with a combination of egg yolks and whole eggs - it produces a finer crumb that I like - but it sometimes deflate when I fold in the butter (after beating for 5 mins). Recently, I've tried beating for 8-10 mins, and voila, it was so easy to fold in the flour and butter! I can even be a little rough and the batter wld still hold up well. Mmm... will also try your method of a slow speed whisking! Take care of that wrist, ok?

The new Cuisinart sounds very interesting. I'm so used to my Kenwood so I think I will love this new one. A good excuse to finally buy my 2nd mixer soon! Do keep us updated, Rose!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | July 25, 2007 11:44 AM #

Rose, a few weeks ago I wrote to you about folding the flour and butter into the genoise batter using the Kitchen Aid whisk. If you recall the finished height of the cake was 1 1/4" as opposed to 1 1/2". I was REALLY curious to see if I could achieve the optimum height, so I made another cake a few days later and I did end up with a cake that was 1 1/2". Thinking it was a fluke I made four (yes four) more cakes and they all were 1 1/2" high. The only thing I did different was that I beat the eggs for 8 minutes as opposed to the recommended 5 mins. When I made the second cake I didn't hear the timer go off and ended up beating it for 8 mins. I don't know if this is the reason why I achieved the correct height but I am happy with the results as my wrist is still not a 100%. Just thought you might be interested to know.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | July 23, 2007 9:50 PM #

WOW!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | June 19, 2007 11:00 AM #

Rose - YEAH... I'm SO GLAD you mentioned that the mixers will have Pourfect beaters available - I just can't wait! (I feel like a child looking forward to Christmas!)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | June 19, 2007 9:06 AM #

Rose - YEAH... I'm SO GLAD you mentioned that the mixers will have Pourfect beaters available - I just can't wait! (I feel like a child looking forward to Christmas!)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | June 19, 2007 9:06 AM #

I've been reading about the new Cuisinart mixer, I believe it is a remake of the Kenwood Chef sold in Europe.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | June 18, 2007 11:09 PM #

Thank you for the compliment Rose. About the "fold" option, I saw an ad in a magazine for Cuisinart and was very curious to know how the cakes would turn out. Thankfully you will be testing it so we can all know how it works.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | June 17, 2007 10:08 PM #

Thank you for answering my question Rose. My mum agreed to baby-sit yesterday so I can make a trial cake. I used the mixer whisk on low speed and the cake turned out really well (in my amateur opinion at least). The finished height after I trimmed the crusts was 1 1/4" and everything else was the same as when I do it by hand. I was so pleased with the results that when I put away the Cake Bible after I finished (don't laught at me)...........I kissed it and said thank you. My husband thought it was hilarious.
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | June 17, 2007 10:17 AM #

Rose,
I was just wondering if it is possible to fold in the flour and clarified butter using the KitchenAid when making a genoise. The reason is because I hurt my wrist and I am unable to do it with the whisk. I have to make a genoise for next week. If this will affect the quality of the cake I will make a butter cake instead.
Thank you,
Rozanne

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | June 15, 2007 10:34 PM #

Joan - would you really need to freeze the ganache at all? It's perfectly fine at room temperature for 3 days.

I think your chances for bumping or marring your finished cake would be to great if you traveled with it completely decorated. I would fill, roll, and wrap the cake well with plastic wrap. Then travel to the destination where I would then frost or glaze the outside of the cake.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | June 7, 2007 9:32 PM #

Dear Rose - I know the bible tells freezing details, but am intending to fly with a chocolate souffle roll filled with whipped ganache chocolate. Should I frost the inside and wrap it, carry along the frozen ganache for the outside - or frost it, wait til cool and wrap with saran doubled [or freeze -tite if can find it.]. Thanks for helping one more time!!! joan p.s.:I loved your harrowing-experience story about the wedding cake, and poor you sleeping on the floor, and the airport crew eating the cake!! In retrospect it is funny, but can't imagine some of the things you have survived! Joan

Reply to this      Posted by: Joan | June 6, 2007 7:05 AM #

Rose, may I ask why your showcase cakes with genoise use only 6 tablespoons of syrup when the original genoise recipe calls for 12? You write that 3 tablespoons is perfect the perfect amount of syrups for each egg in the batter, but 6 tablespoons is only half that. Is it because the showcase cakes are richer?

Reply to this      Posted by: AnnieBlue | June 5, 2007 11:45 PM #

I just started a 3-part class on European cakes and it is very exciting. My only "instruction" to date has been the Cake Bible, which of course is a wonderful way to learn how to bake. I never baked before getting the Cake Bible last year and I have been enjoying experimenting with different cakes. I try to make one recipe at a time until I feel like I've gotten it right - sometimes it's on the first try, sometimes it takes more than one. The class I'm taking is at a local cooking studio and consists of three 4-hour participation classes led by Carole Walter. The night before the first class which was featuring genoise, I made the classic genoise from the Cake Bible as a refresher (since I hadn't made it for a while). It was interesting to compare the techniques in the class the next day. Many were the same and a few were different. It's great to be able to get feedback to make sure you're doing a certain step correctly or to see exactly the consistency, texture, volume, etc of the interim or finished product. If I ever get the chance to see Baking Magic, I'm sure that will be a similar experience. To any of the "newbie's" out there, if you haven't taken a class, it really seems to be worth it.

Brian

Reply to this      Posted by: Brian | May 14, 2007 12:02 AM #

Dear Rose, is this the "enormous" whisk for Genoise? (the one you are holding)

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/letty_and_i.html

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 11, 2007 8:35 PM #

Wow, that was fun reading. I'm going to tape that to the inside cover of my very worn copy of the Cake Bible. Rose, thanks for the years of good cakes.

Reply to this      Posted by: Peter | February 22, 2007 6:28 PM #

Hi Rose,

Lately I've been having trouble baking the orange chiffon cake and was wondering if you could help me figure out what the problem is. All previous times I've baked it I've used a bundt baking pan. I recently bought a Wilton 10 inch two piece tube pan that I decided to try. Besides the pan leaking a bit when I pour the batter in and also in the oven, what will happen is that after the 55 minute baking time the cake will look done on the outside, but a toothpick test will come out wet/crumbly. Last time I baked I left the cake in the oven for a total of 1 hour and 25 minutes. The cake started looking burnt, but the toothpick test still came out crumbly! I've never had this problem with the bundt pan and I used the right temperature and everything. Is there something wrong with the pan?

Reply to this      Posted by: Melissa | December 11, 2006 5:44 PM #

Hi Rose,

I'm a beginning baker and I recently tried your recipe for Orange Glow Chiffon cake and was floored- it was so soft, springy and delicious! I would love to make this into a layer type cake. I was wondering if there was a way to use the batter in a regular round or square pan as opposed to a bundt type baking pan. Hope to hear from you soon!

Thanks,
Melissa

Reply to this      Posted by: Melissa | November 1, 2006 6:21 PM #

Hello Rose I recently made your perfect pound cake and it was great! I am currently baking my way through your book The Cake Bible still got a long way to go though. Take a look at the pic:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j29/madsugarartists/DSCN0006.jpg

Reply to this      Posted by: Sugarcreations | October 29, 2006 7:53 PM #

Following up on the joconde, the foam is created with powdered sugar, whole eggs and the ground almond meal. I've made several of these so far and the foam gets rather thick, but certainly not as thick as a classic genoise because of the weight of the almond meal, as one factor. Currently, I'm beating on high for 5-6 minutes. This seems sufficient enough. The cake rises well in the pans, but settles to about 2/3 the height of classic genoise, as would be expected. For my application, this is all the height I need.

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 15, 2006 1:53 PM #

Any pointers for a novice on folding in the flour and cornstarch? I don't have a large balloon whisk so I'm using a large spatula. I've tried making the genoise a couple of times and it doesn't seem to be getting to the full height it should (somewhere in-between the picture of the proper and failed genoise). I beat the eggs for the full five minutes so I think I'm losing volume during the folding. The batter fills the 8 x 2 inch pan less than 2/3 and the finished cake with the crust trimmed is about 1 1/4. I'm not sure if I'm not working quickly enough or if I'm being too rough with the folding.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I plan to keep making the cake each weekend until I get it right.

Reply to this      Posted by: Brian Pansari | July 15, 2006 11:37 AM #

You are right Rose; when adding egg yolks I didn'd do much beating and there were signs of egg yolks still visible when I was putting in flour.

Reply to this      Posted by: eva berg | July 2, 2006 10:17 PM #

I always have a problem with my sponge:
the bottom of my sponge (about 1/2 inch is not cooked, it's of hard rubbery yellow texture.

Reply to this      Posted by: eva berg | July 1, 2006 7:58 PM #

...p.s. I can't wait to try the chocolate chiffon. I've not made chiffon before so am looking forward to a new concept for me.

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | June 22, 2006 9:14 AM #

This is probably a good time and place to post this question. I've found that I have a particular affinity to joconde sponge because I like the texture and flavor that comes from the almond meal. I usually choose this form of cake over a classique genoise because of the additional flavor element, chewier texture, and because it can still stand up to a good soaking. However, I've been debating on the amount of time to whip the egg/confectioner's sugar/almond meal mixture. Since you obviously don't get the height from this mixture as you would with just warm eggs and sugar because of the weight of the almond meal (and powdered sugar, I assume), it's hard to judge when it's whipped to its best achievable height (because this seems to be a more uncommon cake, I don't find a lot of instructions on it. Rose, I did look in the Cake Bible, but perhaps this same concept is under a different name than joconde? You mentioned almond biscuit above so didn't know if you were referring to this same type of cake?). I've been beating the mixture for about 5 minutes and it is somewhat billowy after that amount of time and does seems to form decent ribbon when dropped, however, another recipe I saw recommends 10-12 minutes! I don't know if I have time for that. :)

Any recommendations on the amount of time to beat an almond meal/confectioner's sugar/eggs combination that will allow it to achieve its maximum height? (by the way, I'm baking this in 9x2 pans, so want maximum height because I want to get three 1/4" layers cut from it).

Thanks!
Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | June 22, 2006 9:13 AM #

How wonderful to read about a chocolate chiffon layer cake appearing in your new book, especially because I grew up in the Philippines with almost all bakery cakes (whether layer, rolled or sheet) being chiffon -- no doubt the influence of 50-60's American cookbooks, but enduring to this day.
In fact, I did make a chiffon layer cake based on your Orange Glow Chiffon cake (with equal yolks to whites, to make it a bit denser and moister on the tougue; I soaked it with Grand Marnier syrup, filled with mascarpone cream and wild blueberry conserve, and frosted with white chocolate ganache buerre) to tier on national television... it was a competition where myself and an assistant needed to carry the finished 36-inch-tall cake from the worktable to the display. Neither of us is particularly muscley, so I reasoned that a sponge cake would be a lot less heavy to carry even when filled, frosted and tiered!! :D

Reply to this      Posted by: Reeni Espino | June 21, 2006 9:52 PM #

Hi Rose,

Just a follow up to my last posting above as I've had time to review the Cake Bible genoise. I was reviewing the Chestnut Genoise, using of course chestnut flour so it appears with almond flour one can call it a genoise (or at least just a sponge cake with almond flour. :)). One question though, the final height once the cake comes out of the oven and cools is about 1.5 inches. Is it that these sponge cakes that contain nut flour might have less height than those with just cake flour due to the weight of the nut flour? I noticed that the finished height you mentioned for the chestnut genoise was 1". I was a bit worried that there was a problem only because the height was just 1.5" once cooled.

Does almond flour have the same starch content as chestnut flour?

Thanks again!
Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | May 24, 2006 9:18 PM #

Hi Rose,

Does the addition of almond flour still make a "génoise" technically a "génoise?" I assume it does since the generic definition is that the cake contains "flour." (of any type, I assume). Also, have you noticed that the addition of almond flour makes a difference in the beating time to achieve volume? I usually beat the foam for 5 minutes (this foam mixture includes whole eggs, powdered sugar and the almond flour, before folding in the cake flour and then the beaten egg whites and melted butter). This seems sufficient and I'm happy with the height of the cake, but I'm curious what your experience has been with beating times for sponge cakes that include almond flour.

(As I'm writing this, I'm saying to myself, I should be checking the Cake Bible, but I'm at work and don't have access - which begs the question, why am I doing this at work, but what can I say - I'm obsessed....:) )

Thanks!
Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | May 24, 2006 10:06 AM #

Oh my gosh that sounds so good. I can't wait!

My next Cake Bible chiffon will have light whipped ganache. Thank you!

Reply to this      Posted by: Felicity | May 7, 2006 10:52 AM #

That is such great news. The Cake Bible's chocolate chiffon cake has been a standby for easily 15 years. The flavor is so chocolately and it stays extremely fresh-tasting for so long (unlike butter cakes). I'm very curious to know what you'd recommend for between the layers.

By the way, it was also very helpful to see the photos of the cakes here. I never really knew my genoises had come out right until I saw the picture of yours, looking identical to mine.

All the best,
Felicity

Reply to this      Posted by: Felicity | May 7, 2006 9:33 AM #

How incredibly comforting to know that this even happens to you. To perhaps state the obvious though, your genoise instructions in The Cake Bible couldn't be better. It has been such a joy to get a perfect one out of the oven every time.

Reply to this      Posted by: Felicity Estrin | May 5, 2006 2:42 PM #

I love your genoise recipes in the Cake Bible, but I love them more now. You ARE human after all. LOL...

Reply to this      Posted by: Anna | January 9, 2006 8:17 PM #