Using the Right Size and Type of Pan

Feb 11, 2006 | From the kitchen of Rose

JULIE QUESTION

Feedback: The last few times I've tried to make lemon bars they come out all wrong. Instead of a pale yellow soft filling, I get a brown crusty thin layer.

Is it because I'm using a glass pan? The pan is 9x9 instead of 7x11, but I can't see that making such a huge difference.

ROSE REPLY

this is an excellent question julie because many people think that the exact pan size and type aren't important and you have demonstrated perfectly just why it is!

first: when a recipe that has always worked suddenly stops working you must think hard about what you are doing differently or what might have changed. in this instance it is the pan type and size. and here's why it isn't working:
glass is transparent so heat enters it more quickly. therefore when using glass bakeware, set the oven temperature 25 degrees lower.

but what is equally significant, especially to the lemon curd topping, is that since it is a slightly larger pan, there is a thinner layer of the lemon curd so this also causes it to cook faster and the sugar in it is carmelizing and turning brown.

Heidi in reply to comment from rose Levy Beranbaum
02/24/2010 12:05 AM

I love your sense of humour Rose.

From what I've found out people seem to use them for microwave cakes using cake mixes...or roasting chicken (standing it on it's end over the center tube, so the fat runs down)...or planters :-)

I made the Plum and Blueberry Upside-Down Torte(Heavenly Cakes) today, using frozen plums and frozen blueberries. Turned out great! I will definitely make it again.

rose Levy Beranbaum in reply to comment from Heid
02/22/2010 11:09 PM

no i haven't. maybe planters?

Heid in reply to comment from rose Levy Beranbaum
02/22/2010 06:28 PM

I'm glad I didn't buy it. What use do those pans have? Have you ever used them for any other kind of baking, like bread for example?

rose Levy Beranbaum in reply to comment from Heidi
02/21/2010 11:05 PM

heidi, i wouldn't recommend a stoneware pan for cakes--it is too slow to conduct the heat and cakes need more rapid heat conduction. it is not the same as glass.

Heidi
02/21/2010 09:14 PM

I went to a Pampered Chef party on Saturday and their company has a stoneware 9 1/2" x 3" (11cups) bundt style pan (called Stoneware Fluted Pan). Do you have to adjust the oven temperature for that kind of pan like you do for glass? Does it bake the same as others? I don't know anyone that has used one for baking (one lady used it for roasting chicken). I would appreciate any input before I buy one.

I just got back from Hawaii and am catching up on all the interesting things I missed on this site while I was away.

Anonymous
09/30/2008 06:37 PM

True lemon curd has superior texture and flavor, and it's surprisingly easy to make from fresh lemon jiuce, lemon zest, butter, and egg yolks (as opposed to a lemony flavored artificially colored liquid thickened with some sort of starchy additive).

Rochelle
12/28/2007 08:23 PM

Thanks, Rose and Bill. Followup question: I get the whole argument that the 10" cake can't support the streusel because it takes too long to set. That still doesn't explain why the streusel on the 8" cake sinks, though.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
12/28/2007 08:00 PM

actually one thing that probably would work is to add the streusel after the batter has set--half way through the baking.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
12/28/2007 07:59 PM

i'm not sure it's a good idea to bake it in a larger size bc the batter can't set fast enough to support the streusel. if you increase the heat the outside of the cake will become darker.

Bill
12/28/2007 05:46 PM

The problem is that your oven is too cool...and the 10 " pan may have been too big to support the weight of the crumbs. rose now recommends that you bake the cake for 15 or 20 minutes (I can't remember exactly but if you search the blog you may find it) before you put the crumbs on. This sets the structure and supports the crumbs better. Also, turning up your oven temp will get the structure to set faster. Good luck

Rochelle
12/28/2007 12:02 PM

Rose, I made your sour cream coffee cake...a triple recipe baked in an 8" and a 10" springform pan. It came out great (with a longer baking time) except all the streusel topping sank into the batter and made an extra-large streusel layer near the bottom of the cake. It still tastes fabulous, but the cakes don't look nearly as good as the version photographed in the book. (I don't have the newly revised edition, if that makes a difference.) Advice?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
05/01/2007 04:30 PM

this cakes serves 8 to 10 so you'll need more than one--two would probably do. it could probably be made in a large rectangle 13 x 9 x 2 if you multiply everything by 1 1/2 and bake 40 to 50 minutes (internal temperature 190 to 200 F.) i've never done it but if i were to try it that's what i would do. please understand that i have tested all these recipes many times because whenever you change a recipe it rarely works perfectly on the first attempt. please let us know what you end up doing.

Irene Inlow
05/01/2007 03:21 PM

I am making the sour cream coffee cake [for a brunch of 26 women.] Can I use a pan Other than a 9 inch springform pan?If not how do you cut it?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
04/10/2007 04:35 PM

you don't say whether or not you're using my recipe. i suspect not bc i write to use it when it has risen but before it deflates OR to stir it down and refrigerate it. when you allow it to rise to the point where it deflates you have exhausted the gluten so it will serve to add flavor to the bread but not structure.

Paul R. Mosso
04/10/2007 04:22 PM

Dear Rose,
My question is about the Biga.
The Biga I've been making rises but
by morning it has collapsed. I used
it anyway and obtained a good Ciabatta
bread. Should a Biga not collapse?
If so, what must I do so it won't
collapse.?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
03/30/2007 12:50 AM

tiptree lemon curd is made with spanish lemon in small batches and amazingly is about as good as home-made!

Patrincia
03/29/2007 12:52 PM

I suppose you could say it's like the difference between a mass marketed boxed cake mix and a recipe from the cake bible.

Tyler
03/28/2007 08:43 PM

Does anybody know the difference between lemon curd and the lemon pie filling they sell in stores?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
12/22/2006 11:13 AM

cupcakes take about 20 minutes--bc of the streusel topping it's safest for this cake to use an instant read thermometer. 198 to 210--same oven temp.

Jen
12/22/2006 11:08 AM

RE: Your response to using 8" springform pan for Sour Cream Coffee Cake and using extra batter for cupcakes, how do I adjust baking time and/or oven temperature for the cupcakes?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
12/20/2006 10:23 PM

i wouldn't make it any larger as longer baking will make it too dark. you could use the 8 inch springform and bake cupcakes from the extra batter. start checking for doneness 10 minutes before the suggestd time for the 9 inch cake.

Jen
12/20/2006 03:25 PM

I'm making the Sour Cream Coffee Cake from your Cake Bible for Xmas. I have a 9" springform pan and am considering making a second cake using my 8" or 10" springform. How would I need to adjust baking temperature and/or time?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
12/06/2006 09:28 PM

i'm sorry david, i can't be of help with unfamiliar flour and baking equipment. read through my book or other books to get as much of an understanding about the process as possible so you can apply it to your unique circumstances.

David Brown
12/06/2006 08:21 PM

Dear Rose:
Thank you so much for this site. I found it just a few months ago. Its helped a lot, but I need some help with some problems that I have found. Please keep in mind that I now live in China and have little ability to buy American flours and baking products which is probably part of my problem since baking is a new thing for this country.
I have grown tired of the overly sweet and way too light Chinese breads so I have bought a small oven. I also have dark teflon pans. When I bake bread in them the top is a little flat and the bottom tends to be too white. It is a little too moist inside. Can you help me with this? Thanks for your time,
David Brown

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/31/2006 01:36 PM

p.s. i haven't made the queen mother cake using these temperatures--my answer is theoretical and based on my version of the cake which is on page 134 of the cake bible. i bake it at 350 for 70 minutes.

Rose Levy Beranbaum
10/31/2006 01:28 PM

i like this type of recipe in the smaller pans too as it is higher and also moister and more evenly baked at the lower longer temperatures.

Ann Cerrone
10/30/2006 04:14 PM

Question re Maida Heatter Queen Mother Cake. Recipe for 9" 375 then 350 1hr 10 min.
OLD Gourmet Recipe for same 8" 350 then 325 50 min baking time.
What different results could I expect.
I like 8" pans..for presentations
Thank you
Ann C - NYC

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/05/2006 09:07 PM

kevin, i'm a wimp so if it's working that way for me it means that you are using less flour or more water than i do. my bet is that you're measuring instead of weighing right? but in any case don't worry about it. if it's a little more liquid than mine it will simply ferment a little faster. if you like, you can add a little more flour after 3 minutes of hand mixing.

Kevin
07/05/2006 04:25 PM

I've been having a great time trying out the recipes from "The Bread Bible". I'm giving some of the Italian breads a shot right now.

I have a question, though, about making the biga. In your book, it says to mix with a wooden spoon for 3-5 minutes, until very smooth and the biga pulls away from the side of the bowl. I could never get it to this point by hand. It never seems smooth and definitely does not pull away.

Instead, I've had to put it in the mixer for at least 5 minutes on med-high -- way more mixing than 3-5 minute by hand. I guess I'm looking for the biga to pull away in the same manner as the dough from the "Rosemary Foccacia Sheet" recipe pulls away.

Am I doing something wrong?

Rose Levy Beranbaum
07/03/2006 05:02 PM

the honest truth is that i've never used glass bread pans but based on my having used glass (pyrex) pie plates, i suspect that they would brown beautifully but do need to be turned down 25 degree F. the nice thing is that you'll be able to see the degree of browning!
i really like the lekue silicone bread pans which also brown beautifully and use the same oven temperature as other pans. if you want metal and want to avoid non-tick or aluminized the all-clad are the answer. they have an inner core of aluminum but sandwiched between stainless steel.
be sure to check out the errata section of the blog. you're in for some delightful bread baking experiences! i have some biyali rising in the frig even though there's no aircondioning in our vacation home and the temp is about 90 degrees. seems a pity to turn on the oven but worth it for those biyali!!!

Kristine Tellefsen
07/03/2006 12:22 PM

Sorry this is rather unrelated to the thread but as close as I could get: I am just starting out with your Bread Bible. I want to use the Pyrex glass loaf pans I already have, and make some 100% whole wheat sandwich bread - eventually. Do I just lower the oven temp 25 degrees for the glass or is it best to go out and get proper metal loaf pans? Also do not want nonstick or anything "aluminized" - have you tried stainless steel pans and do you need to raise or lower oven temp for these?
Thanks so much for having a web site where we can ask you questions directly!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
02/22/2006 10:18 PM

Brenda, you are a born Baker and food writer. Meyer Lansky bars indeed what a great name! And you have a great nose to have realized that regular orange rind would offer a better flavor. most people have tasted it discover that.keep on baking (or is that preaching to the converted?)

Brenda from Brooklyn
02/21/2006 08:44 AM

But some things can be substituted (with mucho respect, this being The Rose's recipe we're talking about)...I just made the [supernaturally exquisite] lemon bars using a combination of Meyer lemon juice and blood orange juice in the curd...they were a deep topaz/amber color with a fascinating flavor...only thing was, I used a regular orange for the ground rind, because neither Meyer lemon nor blood orange rind smelled "right" for the citrus note. Given the 'blood' orange connection, I named them Meyer Lansky bars, after the great gangster (who claimed never to have killed anyone, but circumstantial evidence suggests otherwise).
Took your Macy's De gustibus class, Rose...so thrilled you've got this site for your Faithful fans as a cyber-'Bible'-belt!

Rose Levy Beranbaum
02/12/2006 08:34 PM

i am thrilled for you--and for me. it validates my efforts and is especially satisfying to know that someone out there is putting as much effort into trusting and grasping what i've done as i did in doing it!
be sure to check the correction page on www.roselevyberanbaum.com (q & a)--i don't want you to encounter any disappointments!

Howard Olds
02/11/2006 05:25 PM

For years I have struggled with perfecting the French baguette without much success. I have spent hundreds of hours with compostion books recording each of my attempts (ingredients, ratios, etc.) I had pretty much given up. I have read numerous books; Julia Child's Mastering the Art... Volume II, Beard on Bread, Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads, etc. I am French trained with a Grand Diplome from Cordon Bleu in cuisine and a certificate for patisserie. I only mention this to indicate that I am somewhat experienced in the kitchen. One thing I learned from Rose's Bread Bible is that baking French bread (baguettes, batards, boules, etc.) is an entirely different technique.

A few months ago I purchased Rose's Bread Bible and diligently and carefully read the first 96 pages. I then decided to try her Ciabatta recipe. It was truly an epiphany. When I first began the process (dough starter/biga and dough it seemed way too wet. But I decided to follow the recipe to the letter. Using a Kitchen Aid, I cranked the kneading up to #4 and voila after four minutes the dough magically pulled away from the inside of the bowl just as Rose's recipe said it should. The resulting loaves (I doubled the recipe) came out perfect; good oven spring, good color and best of all great texture with large holes throughout and the taste was wonderful. I did a second batch to make sure it wasn't a fluke and it wasn't. I got the same great result.

Since then, I have made the baguettes and rolls from The Bread Bible using the baguette recipe and with similarly great results.

After ten years of struggling I feel like I am finally beginning to understand the French process. Thank you, Rose, for sharing a wonderful gift.

Raisin Pecan Bread

Lecithin

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Welcome to Real Baking with Rose, the personal blog of author Rose Levy Beranbaum.

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Hector's Take on Rose's Cakes

Using the Right Size and Type of Pan