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Using the Right Size and Type of Pan
JULIE QUESTION
Feedback: The last few times I've tried to make lemon bars they come out all wrong. Instead of a pale yellow soft filling, I get a brown crusty thin layer.
Is it because I'm using a glass pan? The pan is 9x9 instead of 7x11, but I can't see that making such a huge difference.
ROSE REPLY
this is an excellent question julie because many people think that the exact pan size and type aren't important and you have demonstrated perfectly just why it is!
first: when a recipe that has always worked suddenly stops working you must think hard about what you are doing differently or what might have changed. in this instance it is the pan type and size. and here's why it isn't working:
glass is transparent so heat enters it more quickly. therefore when using glass bakeware, set the oven temperature 25 degrees lower.
but what is equally significant, especially to the lemon curd topping, is that since it is a slightly larger pan, there is a thinner layer of the lemon curd so this also causes it to cook faster and the sugar in it is carmelizing and turning brown.
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Comments
True lemon curd has superior texture and flavor, and it's surprisingly easy to make from fresh lemon jiuce, lemon zest, butter, and egg yolks (as opposed to a lemony flavored artificially colored liquid thickened with some sort of starchy additive).
Reply to this Posted by: Anonymous | September 30, 2008 6:37 PM #
Thanks, Rose and Bill. Followup question: I get the whole argument that the 10" cake can't support the streusel because it takes too long to set. That still doesn't explain why the streusel on the 8" cake sinks, though.
Reply to this Posted by: Rochelle | December 28, 2007 8:23 PM #
actually one thing that probably would work is to add the streusel after the batter has set--half way through the baking.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 28, 2007 8:00 PM #
i'm not sure it's a good idea to bake it in a larger size bc the batter can't set fast enough to support the streusel. if you increase the heat the outside of the cake will become darker.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 28, 2007 7:59 PM #
The problem is that your oven is too cool...and the 10 " pan may have been too big to support the weight of the crumbs. rose now recommends that you bake the cake for 15 or 20 minutes (I can't remember exactly but if you search the blog you may find it) before you put the crumbs on. This sets the structure and supports the crumbs better. Also, turning up your oven temp will get the structure to set faster. Good luck
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | December 28, 2007 5:46 PM #
Rose, I made your sour cream coffee cake...a triple recipe baked in an 8" and a 10" springform pan. It came out great (with a longer baking time) except all the streusel topping sank into the batter and made an extra-large streusel layer near the bottom of the cake. It still tastes fabulous, but the cakes don't look nearly as good as the version photographed in the book. (I don't have the newly revised edition, if that makes a difference.) Advice?
Reply to this Posted by: Rochelle | December 28, 2007 12:02 PM #
this cakes serves 8 to 10 so you'll need more than one--two would probably do. it could probably be made in a large rectangle 13 x 9 x 2 if you multiply everything by 1 1/2 and bake 40 to 50 minutes (internal temperature 190 to 200 F.) i've never done it but if i were to try it that's what i would do. please understand that i have tested all these recipes many times because whenever you change a recipe it rarely works perfectly on the first attempt. please let us know what you end up doing.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 1, 2007 4:30 PM #
I am making the sour cream coffee cake [for a brunch of 26 women.] Can I use a pan Other than a 9 inch springform pan?If not how do you cut it?
Reply to this Posted by: Irene Inlow | May 1, 2007 3:21 PM #
you don't say whether or not you're using my recipe. i suspect not bc i write to use it when it has risen but before it deflates OR to stir it down and refrigerate it. when you allow it to rise to the point where it deflates you have exhausted the gluten so it will serve to add flavor to the bread but not structure.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | April 10, 2007 4:35 PM #
Dear Rose,
My question is about the Biga.
The Biga I've been making rises but
by morning it has collapsed. I used
it anyway and obtained a good Ciabatta
bread. Should a Biga not collapse?
If so, what must I do so it won't
collapse.?
Reply to this Posted by: Paul R. Mosso | April 10, 2007 4:22 PM #
tiptree lemon curd is made with spanish lemon in small batches and amazingly is about as good as home-made!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 30, 2007 12:50 AM #
I suppose you could say it's like the difference between a mass marketed boxed cake mix and a recipe from the cake bible.
True lemon curd has superior texture and flavor, and it's surprisingly easy to make from fresh lemon jiuce, lemon zest, butter, and egg yolks (as opposed to a lemony flavored artificially colored liquid thickened with some sort of starchy additive).
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | March 29, 2007 12:52 PM #
Does anybody know the difference between lemon curd and the lemon pie filling they sell in stores?
Reply to this Posted by: Tyler | March 28, 2007 8:43 PM #
cupcakes take about 20 minutes--bc of the streusel topping it's safest for this cake to use an instant read thermometer. 198 to 210--same oven temp.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 22, 2006 11:13 AM #
RE: Your response to using 8" springform pan for Sour Cream Coffee Cake and using extra batter for cupcakes, how do I adjust baking time and/or oven temperature for the cupcakes?
Reply to this Posted by: Jen | December 22, 2006 11:08 AM #
i wouldn't make it any larger as longer baking will make it too dark. you could use the 8 inch springform and bake cupcakes from the extra batter. start checking for doneness 10 minutes before the suggestd time for the 9 inch cake.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 20, 2006 10:23 PM #
I'm making the Sour Cream Coffee Cake from your Cake Bible for Xmas. I have a 9" springform pan and am considering making a second cake using my 8" or 10" springform. How would I need to adjust baking temperature and/or time?
Reply to this Posted by: Jen | December 20, 2006 3:25 PM #
i'm sorry david, i can't be of help with unfamiliar flour and baking equipment. read through my book or other books to get as much of an understanding about the process as possible so you can apply it to your unique circumstances.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 6, 2006 9:28 PM #
Dear Rose:
Thank you so much for this site. I found it just a few months ago. Its helped a lot, but I need some help with some problems that I have found. Please keep in mind that I now live in China and have little ability to buy American flours and baking products which is probably part of my problem since baking is a new thing for this country.
I have grown tired of the overly sweet and way too light Chinese breads so I have bought a small oven. I also have dark teflon pans. When I bake bread in them the top is a little flat and the bottom tends to be too white. It is a little too moist inside. Can you help me with this? Thanks for your time,
David Brown
Reply to this Posted by: David Brown | December 6, 2006 8:21 PM #
p.s. i haven't made the queen mother cake using these temperatures--my answer is theoretical and based on my version of the cake which is on page 134 of the cake bible. i bake it at 350 for 70 minutes.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | October 31, 2006 1:36 PM #
i like this type of recipe in the smaller pans too as it is higher and also moister and more evenly baked at the lower longer temperatures.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | October 31, 2006 1:28 PM #
Question re Maida Heatter Queen Mother Cake. Recipe for 9" 375 then 350 1hr 10 min.
OLD Gourmet Recipe for same 8" 350 then 325 50 min baking time.
What different results could I expect.
I like 8" pans..for presentations
Thank you
Ann C - NYC
Reply to this Posted by: Ann Cerrone | October 30, 2006 4:14 PM #
kevin, i'm a wimp so if it's working that way for me it means that you are using less flour or more water than i do. my bet is that you're measuring instead of weighing right? but in any case don't worry about it. if it's a little more liquid than mine it will simply ferment a little faster. if you like, you can add a little more flour after 3 minutes of hand mixing.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | July 5, 2006 9:07 PM #
I've been having a great time trying out the recipes from "The Bread Bible". I'm giving some of the Italian breads a shot right now.
I have a question, though, about making the biga. In your book, it says to mix with a wooden spoon for 3-5 minutes, until very smooth and the biga pulls away from the side of the bowl. I could never get it to this point by hand. It never seems smooth and definitely does not pull away.
Instead, I've had to put it in the mixer for at least 5 minutes on med-high -- way more mixing than 3-5 minute by hand. I guess I'm looking for the biga to pull away in the same manner as the dough from the "Rosemary Foccacia Sheet" recipe pulls away.
Am I doing something wrong?
Reply to this Posted by: Kevin | July 5, 2006 4:25 PM #
the honest truth is that i've never used glass bread pans but based on my having used glass (pyrex) pie plates, i suspect that they would brown beautifully but do need to be turned down 25 degree F. the nice thing is that you'll be able to see the degree of browning!
i really like the lekue silicone bread pans which also brown beautifully and use the same oven temperature as other pans. if you want metal and want to avoid non-tick or aluminized the all-clad are the answer. they have an inner core of aluminum but sandwiched between stainless steel.
be sure to check out the errata section of the blog. you're in for some delightful bread baking experiences! i have some biyali rising in the frig even though there's no aircondioning in our vacation home and the temp is about 90 degrees. seems a pity to turn on the oven but worth it for those biyali!!!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | July 3, 2006 5:02 PM #
Sorry this is rather unrelated to the thread but as close as I could get: I am just starting out with your Bread Bible. I want to use the Pyrex glass loaf pans I already have, and make some 100% whole wheat sandwich bread - eventually. Do I just lower the oven temp 25 degrees for the glass or is it best to go out and get proper metal loaf pans? Also do not want nonstick or anything "aluminized" - have you tried stainless steel pans and do you need to raise or lower oven temp for these?
Thanks so much for having a web site where we can ask you questions directly!
Reply to this Posted by: Kristine Tellefsen | July 3, 2006 12:22 PM #
Brenda, you are a born Baker and food writer. Meyer Lansky bars indeed what a great name! And you have a great nose to have realized that regular orange rind would offer a better flavor. most people have tasted it discover that.keep on baking (or is that preaching to the converted?)
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | February 22, 2006 10:18 PM #
But some things can be substituted (with mucho respect, this being The Rose's recipe we're talking about)...I just made the [supernaturally exquisite] lemon bars using a combination of Meyer lemon juice and blood orange juice in the curd...they were a deep topaz/amber color with a fascinating flavor...only thing was, I used a regular orange for the ground rind, because neither Meyer lemon nor blood orange rind smelled "right" for the citrus note. Given the 'blood' orange connection, I named them Meyer Lansky bars, after the great gangster (who claimed never to have killed anyone, but circumstantial evidence suggests otherwise).
Took your Macy's De gustibus class, Rose...so thrilled you've got this site for your Faithful fans as a cyber-'Bible'-belt!
Reply to this Posted by: Brenda from Brooklyn | February 21, 2006 8:44 AM #
i am thrilled for you--and for me. it validates my efforts and is especially satisfying to know that someone out there is putting as much effort into trusting and grasping what i've done as i did in doing it!
be sure to check the correction page on www.roselevyberanbaum.com (q & a)--i don't want you to encounter any disappointments!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | February 12, 2006 8:34 PM #
For years I have struggled with perfecting the French baguette without much success. I have spent hundreds of hours with compostion books recording each of my attempts (ingredients, ratios, etc.) I had pretty much given up. I have read numerous books; Julia Child's Mastering the Art... Volume II, Beard on Bread, Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads, etc. I am French trained with a Grand Diplome from Cordon Bleu in cuisine and a certificate for patisserie. I only mention this to indicate that I am somewhat experienced in the kitchen. One thing I learned from Rose's Bread Bible is that baking French bread (baguettes, batards, boules, etc.) is an entirely different technique.
A few months ago I purchased Rose's Bread Bible and diligently and carefully read the first 96 pages. I then decided to try her Ciabatta recipe. It was truly an epiphany. When I first began the process (dough starter/biga and dough it seemed way too wet. But I decided to follow the recipe to the letter. Using a Kitchen Aid, I cranked the kneading up to #4 and voila after four minutes the dough magically pulled away from the inside of the bowl just as Rose's recipe said it should. The resulting loaves (I doubled the recipe) came out perfect; good oven spring, good color and best of all great texture with large holes throughout and the taste was wonderful. I did a second batch to make sure it wasn't a fluke and it wasn't. I got the same great result.
Since then, I have made the baguettes and rolls from The Bread Bible using the baguette recipe and with similarly great results.
After ten years of struggling I feel like I am finally beginning to understand the French process. Thank you, Rose, for sharing a wonderful gift.
Reply to this Posted by: Howard Olds | February 11, 2006 5:25 PM #