Subscribe to this
Making Larger Cakes
KIM QUESTION
I have a question about augmenting your White Chocolate Whisper Cake for use in my friend's wedding cake. Is there a rule of thumb I can go by when converting any of your cakes to larger or smaller sizes?
I hope to achieve the larger volume of the recipes you've designed in your wedding cake section of the Cake Bible. The tiers are slightly higher and more dramatic than the recipes from the butter cake chapter.
Thanks so much,
As always, your devoted fan,
Kim
ROSE REPLY
In my new book I plan to work on creating recipes for larger cakes based on favorite smaller ones. It can sometimes taken many tests to get it right. One of the cakes I've planned on is the white chocolate whisper cake! I think that's one that won't require much adjustment. You simply need to decrease the baking powder in proportion to the amount of flour as indicated in the charts in the wedding cake section.
Do let me know how it works for you so it will give me a leg up on my recipe testing!
Send to a Friend
Print
Post/Read Comments
Digg
de.licio.us
Facebook
StumbleUpon
Comments
a half sheet pan has low sides--the sheet pans in the cake bible wedding cake section are for rectangular 2 inch high sides. they bake differently from round cakes so the leavening is not correspondingly lower. that's why i gave a specific guide for them. hope this helps.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 17, 2008 3:49 PM #
I work in a restaurant and prefer to use half-sheet pans to bake all of my cakes since I often need custom shapes and sizes. This way I get a fairly uniform inch-thick layer and can just stack them and carve away what I don't need, or use metal rings to cut out rounds and then don't have to split cakes or deal with side crusts. My question is, should I be reducing my baking powder amounts to compensate for the wide surface area? I know in TCB it says to lower the BP for the larger pan sizes, but then it gives BP amts for sheet cakes that are not necessarily lower. Does a half sheet pan count as a sheet cake, or it that referring to a much deeper pan only?
Anyone? Thanks!!
Reply to this Posted by: Jennifer | April 27, 2008 9:21 AM #
I am wondering, is there a recipe out there for a cake such as a sponge cake covered in marzipan and then baked? I saw a cake at a bakery in New York that was prepared like this, and wanted to try making one. Thank You!
Reply to this Posted by: Elena | March 17, 2008 6:16 PM #
Thank you Hector & Matthew!
Reply to this Posted by: Barbara A. | March 11, 2008 3:07 PM #
I'm trying to remember now, but I think it has a doubly negative effect: first, what hector said, the sides of the pan get over heated and cause the edges to overcook, but conversely the extra height also shields the middle of the cake, causing it to take longer to cook, which in turn make the edges even worse! You end up with a weird cake with a darker overdone edge and a lighter underdone middle--at least that is what I remember.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | March 11, 2008 8:20 AM #
Barbara, the extra unused metal will irradiate too much heat, drying cake edges too soon, making uneven rise with typical low edges. This is particularly critical for cakes that rise about 50% to 100%
For cakes that bake a low temperature, the extra metal may not be an issue. Also, I've read if it is a silicone pan, extra pan is no problem as silicone does not burn like metal.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | March 11, 2008 3:08 AM #
Just out of curiosity, Matthew -- what happened when you tried to bake a 1 inch cake in a 3 inch tall pan? I keep hearing that "it doesn't work" but being the inquiring type, I always wonder just exactly HOW it doesn't work. Thanks!
Reply to this Posted by: Barbara A. | March 11, 2008 1:46 AM #
You would need to increase the recipe by about 25% to keep the height the same. I can tell you though that your cake will not bake well if you try to bake a 1 inch tall cake in a 3 inch tall pan--unfortunately, I know from experience.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | March 9, 2008 1:56 PM #
i have a recipe for two 9" round cake pans but would like to increase and make it in two 10" pans. By how much do I increase the recipe? I know the formula to get the volume but it says to fill the pans totally with water and see the difference. I have the 9"ones that are only 1" deep and the 10" which is 3" deep. It doesn't make sense to get the volume by filling with water when I would never fill them with batter.
Reply to this Posted by: annie adler | March 9, 2008 1:04 PM #
Thanks Rose! I really treasure TCB. I really love all the recipes there! Can't wait to try most of them!
Reply to this Posted by: Janet | February 28, 2008 6:40 AM #
The standard half sheet pan is 17 1/4 by 12 1/4 by 1 inch high/12 cups (measured from the inside top). if using a slightly larger pan the biscuit will be slightly thinner. and yes i would lower the temp 25 degreesF but no more.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | February 28, 2008 6:12 AM #
Hi Rose,
I'm hoping to try out your biscuit roulade recipe. But being in Australia, I have difficulty finding a jelly-roll pan which is 17 x 12 inches.
Finally, I managed to find a pan that's 18 x 13 inches by chicago metallic - the professional range. Can i still bake the exact recipe of your biscuit roulade in that pan since it's just slightly larger? And being a dark pan, will it affect the end-result of the cake much, bearing in mind that i have to lower the tmperature by about 25F when baking? Am making this for the first time so just wanna make sure i get all my stuff right!
Reply to this Posted by: Janet | February 28, 2008 5:32 AM #
I did a 12" round cake for 28 - using the large tier cutting style shown in the cake bible. You could easily adjust the cake slices to accomodate 30 servings.
The cake mentioned above was a double layer - you said you wanted to make this a triple layer cake - how tall do you expect the overall cake to be when finished? My double layer was about 4 1/2 inches tall. If your cake is going to be another inch or two taller, I would make a smaller cake. (hint: tall slices don't fit on dessert plates very well)
You might also want to consider 2 smaller round cakes stacked together (say a 6" or 8" ontop of a 10")
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | November 9, 2007 9:58 AM #
I would like dessert portions.
Reply to this Posted by: Heather | November 9, 2007 9:20 AM #
Do you want wedding cake sized portions, or standard dessert sized portions?
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | November 8, 2007 4:11 PM #
I am making a birthday cake for 30 people, I want to do a triple layer round cake, what size pan should I use?
Reply to this Posted by: Heather | November 8, 2007 3:42 PM #
Nushera, for Biscuit de Savoie, I have successfully baked on up to 2" x 14" round pans! I believe most recipes on TCB call for a 1.5" pan x 9"
I suspect if you try a pan higher than this, the texture would be more dense (smaller bubbles) but I think it will still taste great and cool all the way thru, specially if it is on a tube pan.
But if you are not filling the pan up to about 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the rim, then the extra metal could burn!
Re: the denser biscuit de savoie, it is a cake batter that holds by its own bubbles and not from baking powder, so even if it doesn't rise much, it is still a good cake (no collapsing).
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | September 9, 2007 5:32 AM #
Hector- the higher the batter (in the pan) the more structure (given by flour+strach) sponge cake needs to climb along the pan-sides. so the texture, fluff, rise etc also going to be affected if not using the prescribed type of pan. am i right?
Reply to this Posted by: nushera | September 8, 2007 7:58 PM #
Natalie, I've had the same concern a while ago. Cake recipes are usually formulated for an exact pan size and shape. As a general rule, it is undersirable to have extra cake pan that is not touching cake. For example, a tube pan is tall, so you will have a few inches of pan not in contact with the batter, this 'naked' metal will generate excessive heat, setting the crust too fast, preventing proper rising, and also making it prone to burning. If your pan is made of darker metal, I can almost guarantee you that it will burn. Most tube pans now come with non-stick coating which is dark, too.
Sponge cakes are the most affected. Butter cakes that don't rise much are the least affected.
I would just try, and you will find a type of cake that will indeed love the tube pan. I bake Rose's carrot ring on a plain aluminum tube pan! But I would never ever bake a genoise or biscuit de savoie in any pan higher than needed!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | September 8, 2007 3:15 AM #
I need to know if I have a recipe calling for a springform pan, can I substitute a tube pan and is the any baking modifications needed? Thanks,
Natalie
Reply to this Posted by: Natalie Pollard | September 8, 2007 12:20 AM #
Hi Susan - how did you frost the yellow butter cake?
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | August 24, 2007 5:53 PM #
Hi everyone,
I have tried Rose's yellow butter cake and it was FANTASTIC!!!!!
Many Thanks
Susan
Reply to this Posted by: Susan | August 24, 2007 11:43 AM #
Hi everyone,
I have tried Rose's yellow butter cake and it was FANTASTIC!!!!!
Many Thanks
Sue
Reply to this Posted by: Susan | August 24, 2007 11:42 AM #
EVERYONE should get a copy of The Cake Bible!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | August 5, 2007 9:27 PM #
Sue, i have got access to limited number of ingredients(not to mention, the quality also not up to the mark) and cant bake many of the recipes from The Cake Bible by Rose. Even then, just reading the book is a great experience too! If you are really into baking, you are worth it. until you get yr copy, keep seeing february2007 from this sites' archives. happy baking.
Reply to this Posted by: nushera | August 5, 2007 6:57 PM #
Sue, look under the recipes section on the left-hand side.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | August 4, 2007 9:30 AM #
Thankyou for replying! Can I get Rose's cake recipes online?
If so, where?
Sue
Reply to this Posted by: Susan | August 4, 2007 8:56 AM #
Susan, absolutelly, I agree with Patrincia, this is a pound cake (equal amounts by weight or a pound of flour, of sugar, of butter, and of eggs). These are heavy and dense cakes.
Try one of Rose's yellow butter cakes, or my best 'pound cake' is Rose's Buttermilk Country Cake. They are much lighter than pound cake.
And if you absolutelly want to avoid butter, and want to have the lightest possible spongy cake, then you need to try genoise or biscuit of savoie!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | August 3, 2007 3:38 PM #
Hi Susan - I'm certainly not an expert, but your recipe looks like a pound cake to me. Pound cakes are by nature very dense and heavy - no matter how you mix them, you won't achieve a light or spongy cake.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | August 3, 2007 10:58 AM #
Hi, I was wondering if you could answer my question please.
why does my cake come out heavy and dense? It doesn’t come out spongy.
My cakes are usually 12" deep pan cakes.
This is the recipe I use:
self - raising flour - 700g
sugar - 600g
butter - 600g
eggs - 600g
My oven is an electric oven and I use an electric hand whisk.
Many Thanks
Sue
Reply to this Posted by: Susan | August 3, 2007 10:48 AM #
thank you. cake turned out great. i appreciated your time and advice
Reply to this Posted by: cookie | August 3, 2007 5:48 AM #
Cookie, may I suggest you bake at the regular temperature for the first half of the time, or until you see the cake rising, and then lower to 325 degrees. This has worked very well when I make larger than life cakes!
You need a minimum temperature for your cake to rise, and rising usually happens at the beginning of the baking time. Once your cake has risen, and the texture has set initially, then it is a matter of cooking it all the way thru using the additional baking time. If you start baking "too cold" your cake will not rise; and correspondingly, if you keep baking at high heat, the center can burst.
I've noticed you are using yellow cake mix, and 'spice it up' with butter, fresh eggs, and vanilla pudding. Wait until you bake everything from scratch, you will be blown away by the texture and flavor; needless to say that you will be able to spell and pronounce the ingredients when baking from scratch as opposed to try reading the ingredients printed on the box of cake mix! Let me tell you, that even the simplest cake recipe from scratch is way better than cake box!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | August 1, 2007 8:59 PM #
thank you
i used my judgement
i had 22 cups of batter in a SLOW OVEN 325DEGREES AND I WILL TEST IT AT 85
MINUTES.
THIS IS A WONDERFUL POUND CAKE WHEN ITS DONE. ITS BEEN IN THE FAMILY FOR2 GENERATIONS. ITS A NO FAIL CAKE.
1 BOX YELLOW CAKE MIX
1 STICK ROOM TEMP BUTTER
1 CUP WATER
1 SMALL BOX INSTAND VANILLA PUDDING
4 RGGS
WE ALSO USED THIS RECIPE FOR ONE OF MY DAUGHTERS BRIDAL CAKES. WE HAD SEVERAL KINDS OF CAKE FOR HER WEDDING. ALL THE CAKES WERE A REAL NICE CHANGE FROM THE TYPICAL WEDDING CAKE THAT JUST SITS THERE.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR INPUT
Reply to this Posted by: cookie | August 1, 2007 6:17 PM #
i'm so sorry i can't help--first of all i don't use mixes. and the only guidance i could give you is to measure the volume of the pan and compare it to the volume of the pan and size of the mix you've used before. in any case, don't fill more than 2/3 full and bake until it tests done and you should be fine.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 1, 2007 5:45 PM #
hi rose, thanks for responding so quickly. i have to bake this evening
its a yellow cake mix with butter and instant pudding added to the cake to make a pound cake.my pan is foil and its 19x11x3.
i have made this several times before but never this size. its a wonderful recipe from my mom for all occassions
i have 4 boxes of cake mix and 4 boxes of instant pudding, with 4 eggs for each box and 1 cup of liquid for each box.
thanks in advance
i love this site.
Reply to this Posted by: cookie | August 1, 2007 5:21 PM #
What type of cake? Butter, or genoise?
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | July 31, 2007 8:20 PM #
baking a cake in a 19x13x3 pan
about how much time and temp. my calculations were 325 degrees for about 90 minutes.
please help
Reply to this Posted by: cookie | July 31, 2007 8:08 PM #
the only pistachio cake i have is in the cake bible and it's a white butter cake with pistachio marzipan. i don't know if this is the one you had in mind but i do have a wonderful pistachio cake in my upcoming book due out fall of 2008.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 27, 2007 1:17 PM #
I need help!!! I had a book years ago and the recipes were great. I loved one in particular and cannot find it . All the moving through the years, the book was left behind . It was a Pistachio Cake with Butter Cream Frosting. The only thing I remember is that one of the ingredients was cream of tartar . It was the most incredible cakes I have ever tasted. Any chance that you would know of it or that you could help me find it? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Reply to this Posted by: Terry | May 27, 2007 12:59 PM #
it will be fine if it is at cool room temperature. if the place has a walk-in refrigerator, all the better.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 4, 2007 7:47 PM #
I'm going to use your cheesecake recipe for a wedding cake. I've never made a cheesecake wedding cake before & my concern is when to set it up. I'm afraid of it going bad if I set it up to early & you recommend not to freeze it. Any suggestions?
Reply to this Posted by: Annette Billman | March 4, 2007 7:15 PM #
no--dome means you need to increase to make more tender. i'd try that bf using the core.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 3, 2007 9:03 AM #
Thank you so much for the fast response! I did consider the fact that the square pan is 1/3 larger than the round one... maybe I'll try the baking core. Because the pan is a different shape and does have 1/3 more volume, should I adjust the baking powder levels? (My practice cake came out so dense... also the top of it had a larger dome than my circle cakes usually do.)
Thank you for your help!
Reply to this Posted by: Britt | March 2, 2007 7:50 PM #
as long as you determine the volume, keeping in mind that a square cake pan is 1 1/3 times the size of a round pan of the same diameter it should work. if not, then try using a baking core in the center but i shouldn't think it would be necessary.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 2, 2007 5:44 PM #
Hi Rose,
I am a "passionate amateur" as you describe in the Cake Bible. I have made about 12-13 wedding cakes in the past several years for friends and family. My best friend is getting married on March 31st (in 29 days!), and I am making her cake (in addition to being the maid of honor!) I have always had great success using your "Rose factor" charts for round cakes in the past. My friend wants a three-tiered SQUARE cake. I have found pans in sizes 8", 12", and 16". Is there a formula I can use to convert the "Rose factor" for square cakes? I am unsure what to do, I have experimented a few times but my 12" and 16" layers are coming out really dense and kind of dry.
Reply to this Posted by: Britt | March 2, 2007 5:38 PM #