Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

La Cuisine (www.lacuisineus.com) carries wonderful stuff. I've noted their carbon steel heavy baking sheets, made in France.

http://lacuisineus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=863{4}664

Have you had experience baking pizza on it, preheated, instead of using a baking stone? I think it may work with Rose's 2-step pizza baking method where you pre-bake the empty crust first.

I remember my Mom using these to give her pastries a good crunch, also to quickly make toasts or even stir fries.

I have been given the catering task for wedding on September 13th. It is a luncheon on a garden setting at Volcano National Park, and I told the bride that "pizza" may be a hit, specially the way I make them (which is in fact fancy Tuscan breads hors devours rather than pizza!).

Here is part of the menu:

Tuscan Hors Devours:

are we having pizza?

'bianca' tomato-less, mozarella, taleggio, oregano, salt, pepper, oil.

'funghi' sauted muhrooms on the nude.

'margherita' tomato sauce, mozarella, salt, pepper, oil, fresh cold basil.

'napoletana' tomato sauce, mozarella, oregano, anchovies, salt, oil.

'patate' tomato-less, potato slices, pancetta, taleggio, parmesan, rosemary, salt, pepper, oil.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 27, 2008 1:38 PM #

For some crazy reason I am having a dinner party tonight – 2 nights before the first seder. I should have my head examined. But it is a good opportunity to make bread before Passover and I made sour dough raisin pumpernickel and cibatta. I made hummus for an appetizer and looked in the BB for a flat bread and saw the Mediterranean Matzoh which I made this morning. It is fantastic with butter or hummus. The rosemary is a perfect accompaniment. Interestingly it could not be used for Passover which would require it be baked within 18 minutes of the water touching the flour – and this recipe requires that the dough rest for 30 minutes. But it is a lot of fun to make and worthwhile when you need a flat bread. Rose – thanks for the recipe! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | April 17, 2008 2:05 PM #

I am very excited because my round crimp pan arrived and I am going to make the cinnamon raisin bread.
See http://www.hubert.com/prod/SB.2527.35453/searchlb/Chicago-Metallic-s-Bake-King-Crimped-Round-Bread-Pan-Set.html
The challenge is the pan is fully enclosed so I need to figure out how much dough to use and how long to bake the bread. It holds 6 cups of water. Should I just calculate the volume in a regular bread pan (about 8 ½ cups) and do the math for much to put in the crimp pan?
Do you think it will bake any different being fully enclosed? It will be very difficult to open the pan to check the temperature and then reclose it.
Thanks! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | April 7, 2008 3:14 PM #

Hi Tammy, thanks! All my friends think I am the bread slave, because the breads I make take so many hours or days to make! Little they know that most of the work is sitting time!

I've ate 1/3 of the bread last night, was fine, a little too moist/spongy but I am getting used to that. Actually, once a fellow blogger said that moist/spongy bread makes the best toasts or grilled paninis, which is totally true as that is how I have my bread each morning. Roses's sourdough is so delicious that I no longer add anything on it (no butter, jam, etc).

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | April 2, 2008 1:09 PM #

Thanks Hector. I just saw your no knead sourdough bread #2. It's beautiful.

Reply to this      Posted by: Tammy Bartley | April 2, 2008 12:06 PM #

Tammy, I've refrigerated past 20 hours w/o a big difference. Sometimes up to 2 weeks. My refrigerator is very cold 32oF, so be aware.

In my experience, refrigeration does not make things more sour.

Yes, you can shape the bread, and refrigerate before or after the final rise. Just be aware that when you decide to take it out of the fridge, it can take several hours: at least 1 hour to reach room temp and a couple more to rise.

I am working on no knead sourdough! Nothing to report yet, except that all failures has been so delicious and edible!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | April 1, 2008 1:41 PM #

Hector, Sorry I wasn't very clear... what I'm asking is, can I shape the sour dough bread and put it in the refrigerator overnight and let it rise the next day (or let it rise then refrigerate it overnight?) I'd like to bake it tomorrow but the 20 hours max after the second feeding runs out today. thanks

Reply to this      Posted by: Tammy Bartley | April 1, 2008 7:22 AM #

Hector,
Can I delay Sour Dough bread this way also? Or will this cause the bread to collapse or make the flavor too strong?

Reply to this      Posted by: Tammy Bartley | April 1, 2008 7:06 AM #

Thanks you for reporting back! I refrigerate dough all the time, glad to know it didn't affect the ciabatta which is one of those breads I treasure dearly since it is Italian! Was the texture chewy? What flour did you use?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | March 31, 2008 1:55 PM #

I am reporting back on making ciabatta when I refrigerated the dough. I shaped it – let it rise for an hour and then refrigerated it overnight. When I woke up, I let it sit at room temperature for an hour and then baked it. I never had Rose’s recipe made without refrigerating the dough – but this could not have been better. The crust is so chewy and the inside just right. Wonderful with butter. Glad I took it all to a friend’s house because it would be dangerous in my house. The timing is so manageable when you refrigerate the dough.
Is there any dough you would not refrigerate?
Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 31, 2008 1:39 PM #

picture and initial post posted here (wait a few seconds until your web browser automatically scrolls down to it):

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2006/02/more_on_sour_dough_starters.html#comment-87617

The recipe is on the Bread Bible, Basic Heart Bread, plus read the chapter on how to replace with stiff starter. This is the math I calculated: 240 grams 1-week old stiff starter, 324 grams bread flour, 242 grams water, 10 grams salt, 1 tablespoon honey. Knead all ingredients except the starter for 2 minutes, then add starter and knead for 5 minutes. The rest follow the original recipe on the book.

Good luck.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | March 30, 2008 4:53 PM #

Hector, can you share your converted recipe for the hearth bread? I assume you adjusted the amount of water, etc.

Thanks,
Beth

Reply to this      Posted by: Beth | March 30, 2008 4:44 PM #

Louise, generally, starter weakens the structure of bread, so your ciabatta may turn out denser. But it is worth trying as I believe true bread baking was done all with starter (before the commercialization of beer yeast). I have successfully converted the Basic Heart Bread with starter. Right now I am working on doing the same for the no knead bread.

Try read the blog post about foccacia, where Rose adds starter. It is a great recipe.

Starter needs to be active (at the moment when it reaches double volume), either freshly feed plus letting it become active by leaving at room temp for a few hours (until it doubles), or a 3 to 5 day old or so refrigerated starter.

Bread Bible has excellent guideline on how to convert commercial yeast to starter.

Salt? why not?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | March 30, 2008 4:18 PM #

Do you suggest that starter be added to the ciabatta dough? If so, how much and do you also add any salt? I assume that you do not refresh the starter?? Thanks, Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 30, 2008 3:54 PM #

(there goes that annoying anonymous thing again... does anyone know why this has suddenly started happening when I post? I have the "remember me" box checked.)

Louise - Yesterday I noticed similar pans in the Sweet Celebrations Catalog. They have 3 called Small Ribbed, Nut Bread (long and hinged), and Ribbed Non-Stick Pans. www.sweetc.com.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | March 29, 2008 11:26 AM #

Louise - so glad I could help!

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | March 29, 2008 11:18 AM #

Louise, YES, and do report back. I do that all the time.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | March 29, 2008 10:22 AM #

I love baking bread but feel like I am spending my life staying home – or getting up really early – so that the different doughs can rise the correct amount of time. This weekend I want to make Ciabatta for lunch and do not want to wake up at 4 a.m. to get all the rises down before lunch. So…. can I let the dough stay in the refrigerator over night either at step 3 after the first rise or at step 4 after the dough is shaped and has risen? I would prefer to do it after it is shaped because then I would just have to let it come to room temperature in the morning for 1 hour before baking. Thank you, Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 29, 2008 8:08 AM #

Patricia sent me on the path to find the correct pan. It is not the moravian because it has a flat bottom . It is called the crimped round pan - which is completely circular - and can be found various places on the internet including http://www.hubert.com/store/products.asp?CAWELAID=126243607&A=SB%2E2527%2E35453&Dn=0&An=966&Au=Presentation+Id&Ntt=35453&N=966&src=chanadv&Ntx=mode+matchall&D=35453&Ntk=SKU. I would have never found it without Patricia so thanks! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 26, 2008 4:18 PM #

Wow - this blog really works! The people are so nice! Thank you Patricia - a Moravian Loaf Pan is exactly what I was looking for. I will let you know how it turns out! Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 26, 2008 3:03 PM #

Don't know why I keep getting posted as Anonymous. There are some ribbed bread pans that are called Moravian or Rehrücken Pans.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | March 26, 2008 10:42 AM #

Louise - don't know if this will help, but you might find a suitable substitution.

http://www.fantes.com/loaf-pans.html

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | March 26, 2008 10:40 AM #

Louise - this probably isn't exactly what you're looking for, but it might be a suitable replacement.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://fantes.com/images/19670loaf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fantes.com/loaf-pans.html&h=402&w=428&sz=53&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=iQVCG8Kr4S7pmM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dribbed%2Bbread%2Bpan%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2005-27,GGLG:en

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | March 26, 2008 10:37 AM #

Growing up we bought delicious cinnamon bread from our local bakery that was very special. The bread was a cylindrical shape and ribbed, almost like it was baked in a coffee can, but much longer. Remembering back to my childhood, it was probably 12 – 15 inches long. It looked like it was baked in a fully enclosed pan. Because it had a “crust” on both ends. After it was baked, they rolled the bread in cinnamon sugar and, due to its cylindrical shape, they were able to actual roll the bread in the cinnamon sugar so it was covered all over with the wonderful taste. Any ideas on what type of pan they used and where I could buy one? Thank you, Louise Allen, Weston, Florida

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise Allen | March 26, 2008 7:49 AM #

i have a turbo oven and usually bake on a stone with the turbo running, should i not use the turbo? i usually bake my friday challah only in the oven.

Reply to this      Posted by: abi | February 13, 2008 3:08 AM #

Rose, is there such thing as a "too much protein bread" flour? My Basic Sourdough is less sticky than usual when mixing. Also, it gets low oven spring!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 12, 2008 1:10 PM #

Beth, I used to bake on cold clay pots or on cold quarry tiles, but I get better oven spring when I bake on a well preheated 475oF surface (clay or cast iron). I would say if your bread recipe calls for a much lower oven temp (350oF ie), then it won't make much of a difference if the surface is hot or cold.

Currently, my favorite "bread oven environment" is a cast iron dutch oven (with a lid). The pot and lid are preheated to 475oF, I bake with the lid on for the first 10 minutes thus I don't have to use ice cubes nor inject vapor nor keep the environment moist.

If the type of bread browns too much or needs to loose some moisture, I remove the bread from the pot after the lid is removed (the bread should be pale and wait until it has crusted firmly enough to handle) and place it directly on a baking stone (preheated).

My oven is always lined with quarry tiles or baking stones on the top rack and on the bottom rack.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 12, 2008 12:39 PM #

Hi. Is there anyone out there who owns both a clay pot and a cloche who would be willing to bake a loaf each way and report about the differences. Or maybe someone who uses a cloche all the time could bake some of their normal recipe once in a clay pot. I used my clay pot for 2 different recipes lately, but I'm not sure I'm completely happy with the results. I think Rose's hearth bread turned out better on the stone than in the clay pot. With the clay pot you soak the bottom; then I line it with parchment and put the dough in it for the final rise. Before putting it in the COLD oven I soak the top. Then after a certain time I remove the top to brown the top of the loaf. There is a website at sourdo.com that suggested this type of method (starting in a cold oven) for some sourdough, so it sounded like a good idea.

Thanks, Beth

Reply to this      Posted by: Beth | February 12, 2008 10:34 AM #

sometimes the clerks at the hardware store knows-nothing. Keep looking, they are called quarry tiles. I found mines at home depot. Usually stashed, sort of hidden, since they are not the prettiest tiles!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 2, 2008 2:23 PM #

Hector - thanks for the reply - where did you find the unglazed quarry tiles? My home depot had not idea what I was talking about. thanks, Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 2, 2008 2:21 PM #

Louise, those are the tiles I found the first time I went looking for unglazed quarry tiles. The unglazed salito are about 1x1 feet right?

They are unglazed, so they will work, but my concern was if it has any other chemicals or dies that can be toxic, I never got around to find out.

Now I use unglazed quarry tiles, normally these come much smaller about 4 or 6 inch square, but I find that dealing with small tiles is much better in my oven. Cracking almost never happens (as opposed to a larger tile or the so many dozen $$$ pizza stones I went thru), and if bread of pizza stick, it is easy to shake loose the smaller tiles and unstuck your bread. Yes, it can get unruly since the smaller tiles shift, but you get used to.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 2, 2008 2:19 PM #

I went to home depot looking for unglazed quarry tile to use as a baking stone - and came home with unglazed salito - it looks like an unglazed Mexican terracottta tile. Does anyone know if that will work? One big tile was $1.08 so, if it works, you can not beat the price! thanks, Louise

Reply to this      Posted by: Louise | February 2, 2008 6:25 AM #

When I tried to print your Golden Honey Oat Bread I ended up with an 18 page document. Is there any way you could format your recipes so they print on 1 or two pages or so we could format them to print on a recipe card?

Reply to this      Posted by: Vicki | January 31, 2008 10:38 AM #

Rose, have you baked on copper? I've just inherited a fatto-in-Italia copper pizza pan with tinned lining. Maybe use it for bread recipes calling to bake on a unheated baking sheet? I am afraid preheating this empty will damage the tinning.

Also, how about baking on Lodge's cast iron pizza pan?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 30, 2008 6:25 PM #

Hi...just wondering about the recipes that call for bottled water. We have a reverse osmosis system for our drinking water...would that be the same? Thanks.

Reply to this      Posted by: Sherry | January 26, 2008 1:00 PM #

Matthew had great advice. I was looking at the bannetons for sale through Amazon. I think I could probably buy my own basket, and then sew a liner from a tea towel; the only difficult part would be joining the circular bottom to the other part. That would get rid of most of the bunching problem with the towel. I'm not sure I can do it for this loaf, but it's definitely an option for later on. By the way, I had my biga out overnight, but it wasn't too bubbly (at least, it was very different from the biga for the ciabatta). I'm assuming, however, that it will still work, at least I'm hoping that's so. Thanks, Rose and Matthew, for your advice.
Beth

Reply to this      Posted by: Beth | January 25, 2008 6:47 AM #