I would like to make this recipe but I could not find it. Can someone give me a link to it?

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Hi Rose,

I purchased the Bread Bible recently and have been in a baking frenzy. All of the recipes are great, we have especially enjoyed the Prosciutto Ring (great with melted Brie), Olive Loaf and Cinnamon Raisin. My husband can polish off half a loaf of the Cinnamon Raisin almost before it is cool.

My question, I have a Kitchen Aid mixer and am curious why sometimes the dough "climbs" up the dough hook? I have it climb and not climb, using the same recipe, on different days. It doesn't seem to affect the bread results.I'd like to figure this out since it is a pain to clean up.

Thank you in advance for your reply,

Brook Foster

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Rhonda - I am on vacation so I do not have my notes. I will respond when I get back. The key is to open the pans when you think it should be done and checking the temp with an instant read thermometer.

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I have the same ones.

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Rhonda - do you have the same crimped pans? If not, I would just follow rose's recipe for white bread with the variation for raisin bread.

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I'm sorry- I am referring to Louise's round crimped bread pans.

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Rhonda - which bread are you referring to?

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Hi Louise- did you ever make this bread? Would you share the recipe as I would like to make this but don't know how much dough to use or at what time and temp to bake it.
Thanks.

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La Cuisine (www.lacuisineus.com) carries wonderful stuff. I've noted their carbon steel heavy baking sheets, made in France.

http://lacuisineus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=863{4}664

Have you had experience baking pizza on it, preheated, instead of using a baking stone? I think it may work with Rose's 2-step pizza baking method where you pre-bake the empty crust first.

I remember my Mom using these to give her pastries a good crunch, also to quickly make toasts or even stir fries.

I have been given the catering task for wedding on September 13th. It is a luncheon on a garden setting at Volcano National Park, and I told the bride that "pizza" may be a hit, specially the way I make them (which is in fact fancy Tuscan breads hors devours rather than pizza!).

Here is part of the menu:

Tuscan Hors Devours:

are we having pizza?

'bianca' tomato-less, mozarella, taleggio, oregano, salt, pepper, oil.

'funghi' sauted muhrooms on the nude.

'margherita' tomato sauce, mozarella, salt, pepper, oil, fresh cold basil.

'napoletana' tomato sauce, mozarella, oregano, anchovies, salt, oil.

'patate' tomato-less, potato slices, pancetta, taleggio, parmesan, rosemary, salt, pepper, oil.

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For some crazy reason I am having a dinner party tonight – 2 nights before the first seder. I should have my head examined. But it is a good opportunity to make bread before Passover and I made sour dough raisin pumpernickel and cibatta. I made hummus for an appetizer and looked in the BB for a flat bread and saw the Mediterranean Matzoh which I made this morning. It is fantastic with butter or hummus. The rosemary is a perfect accompaniment. Interestingly it could not be used for Passover which would require it be baked within 18 minutes of the water touching the flour – and this recipe requires that the dough rest for 30 minutes. But it is a lot of fun to make and worthwhile when you need a flat bread. Rose – thanks for the recipe! Louise

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I am very excited because my round crimp pan arrived and I am going to make the cinnamon raisin bread.
See http://www.hubert.com/prod/SB.2527.35453/searchlb/Chicago-Metallic-s-Bake-King-Crimped-Round-Bread-Pan-Set.html
The challenge is the pan is fully enclosed so I need to figure out how much dough to use and how long to bake the bread. It holds 6 cups of water. Should I just calculate the volume in a regular bread pan (about 8 ½ cups) and do the math for much to put in the crimp pan?
Do you think it will bake any different being fully enclosed? It will be very difficult to open the pan to check the temperature and then reclose it.
Thanks! Louise

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Hi Tammy, thanks! All my friends think I am the bread slave, because the breads I make take so many hours or days to make! Little they know that most of the work is sitting time!

I've ate 1/3 of the bread last night, was fine, a little too moist/spongy but I am getting used to that. Actually, once a fellow blogger said that moist/spongy bread makes the best toasts or grilled paninis, which is totally true as that is how I have my bread each morning. Roses's sourdough is so delicious that I no longer add anything on it (no butter, jam, etc).

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Thanks Hector. I just saw your no knead sourdough bread #2. It's beautiful.

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Tammy, I've refrigerated past 20 hours w/o a big difference. Sometimes up to 2 weeks. My refrigerator is very cold 32oF, so be aware.

In my experience, refrigeration does not make things more sour.

Yes, you can shape the bread, and refrigerate before or after the final rise. Just be aware that when you decide to take it out of the fridge, it can take several hours: at least 1 hour to reach room temp and a couple more to rise.

I am working on no knead sourdough! Nothing to report yet, except that all failures has been so delicious and edible!

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Hector, Sorry I wasn't very clear... what I'm asking is, can I shape the sour dough bread and put it in the refrigerator overnight and let it rise the next day (or let it rise then refrigerate it overnight?) I'd like to bake it tomorrow but the 20 hours max after the second feeding runs out today. thanks

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Hector,
Can I delay Sour Dough bread this way also? Or will this cause the bread to collapse or make the flavor too strong?

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Thanks you for reporting back! I refrigerate dough all the time, glad to know it didn't affect the ciabatta which is one of those breads I treasure dearly since it is Italian! Was the texture chewy? What flour did you use?

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I am reporting back on making ciabatta when I refrigerated the dough. I shaped it – let it rise for an hour and then refrigerated it overnight. When I woke up, I let it sit at room temperature for an hour and then baked it. I never had Rose’s recipe made without refrigerating the dough – but this could not have been better. The crust is so chewy and the inside just right. Wonderful with butter. Glad I took it all to a friend’s house because it would be dangerous in my house. The timing is so manageable when you refrigerate the dough.
Is there any dough you would not refrigerate?
Louise

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picture and initial post posted here (wait a few seconds until your web browser automatically scrolls down to it):

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2006/02/more_on_sour_dough_starters.html#comment-87617

The recipe is on the Bread Bible, Basic Heart Bread, plus read the chapter on how to replace with stiff starter. This is the math I calculated: 240 grams 1-week old stiff starter, 324 grams bread flour, 242 grams water, 10 grams salt, 1 tablespoon honey. Knead all ingredients except the starter for 2 minutes, then add starter and knead for 5 minutes. The rest follow the original recipe on the book.

Good luck.

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Hector, can you share your converted recipe for the hearth bread? I assume you adjusted the amount of water, etc.

Thanks,
Beth

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Louise, generally, starter weakens the structure of bread, so your ciabatta may turn out denser. But it is worth trying as I believe true bread baking was done all with starter (before the commercialization of beer yeast). I have successfully converted the Basic Heart Bread with starter. Right now I am working on doing the same for the no knead bread.

Try read the blog post about foccacia, where Rose adds starter. It is a great recipe.

Starter needs to be active (at the moment when it reaches double volume), either freshly feed plus letting it become active by leaving at room temp for a few hours (until it doubles), or a 3 to 5 day old or so refrigerated starter.

Bread Bible has excellent guideline on how to convert commercial yeast to starter.

Salt? why not?

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Do you suggest that starter be added to the ciabatta dough? If so, how much and do you also add any salt? I assume that you do not refresh the starter?? Thanks, Louise

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(there goes that annoying anonymous thing again... does anyone know why this has suddenly started happening when I post? I have the "remember me" box checked.)

Louise - Yesterday I noticed similar pans in the Sweet Celebrations Catalog. They have 3 called Small Ribbed, Nut Bread (long and hinged), and Ribbed Non-Stick Pans. www.sweetc.com.

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Louise - so glad I could help!

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Louise, YES, and do report back. I do that all the time.

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I love baking bread but feel like I am spending my life staying home – or getting up really early – so that the different doughs can rise the correct amount of time. This weekend I want to make Ciabatta for lunch and do not want to wake up at 4 a.m. to get all the rises down before lunch. So…. can I let the dough stay in the refrigerator over night either at step 3 after the first rise or at step 4 after the dough is shaped and has risen? I would prefer to do it after it is shaped because then I would just have to let it come to room temperature in the morning for 1 hour before baking. Thank you, Louise

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Patricia sent me on the path to find the correct pan. It is not the moravian because it has a flat bottom . It is called the crimped round pan - which is completely circular - and can be found various places on the internet including http://www.hubert.com/store/products.asp?CAWELAID=126243607&A=SB%2E2527%2E35453&Dn=0&An=966&Au=Presentation+Id&Ntt=35453&N=966&src=chanadv&Ntx=mode+matchall&D=35453&Ntk=SKU. I would have never found it without Patricia so thanks! Louise

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Wow - this blog really works! The people are so nice! Thank you Patricia - a Moravian Loaf Pan is exactly what I was looking for. I will let you know how it turns out! Louise

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Don't know why I keep getting posted as Anonymous. There are some ribbed bread pans that are called Moravian or Rehrücken Pans.

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Louise - don't know if this will help, but you might find a suitable substitution.

http://www.fantes.com/loaf-pans.html

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Louise - this probably isn't exactly what you're looking for, but it might be a suitable replacement.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://fantes.com/images/19670loaf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fantes.com/loaf-pans.html&h=402&w=428&sz=53&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=iQVCG8Kr4S7pmM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dribbed%2Bbread%2Bpan%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2005-27,GGLG:en

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Growing up we bought delicious cinnamon bread from our local bakery that was very special. The bread was a cylindrical shape and ribbed, almost like it was baked in a coffee can, but much longer. Remembering back to my childhood, it was probably 12 – 15 inches long. It looked like it was baked in a fully enclosed pan. Because it had a “crust” on both ends. After it was baked, they rolled the bread in cinnamon sugar and, due to its cylindrical shape, they were able to actual roll the bread in the cinnamon sugar so it was covered all over with the wonderful taste. Any ideas on what type of pan they used and where I could buy one? Thank you, Louise Allen, Weston, Florida

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i have a turbo oven and usually bake on a stone with the turbo running, should i not use the turbo? i usually bake my friday challah only in the oven.

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Rose, is there such thing as a "too much protein bread" flour? My Basic Sourdough is less sticky than usual when mixing. Also, it gets low oven spring!

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Beth, I used to bake on cold clay pots or on cold quarry tiles, but I get better oven spring when I bake on a well preheated 475oF surface (clay or cast iron). I would say if your bread recipe calls for a much lower oven temp (350oF ie), then it won't make much of a difference if the surface is hot or cold.

Currently, my favorite "bread oven environment" is a cast iron dutch oven (with a lid). The pot and lid are preheated to 475oF, I bake with the lid on for the first 10 minutes thus I don't have to use ice cubes nor inject vapor nor keep the environment moist.

If the type of bread browns too much or needs to loose some moisture, I remove the bread from the pot after the lid is removed (the bread should be pale and wait until it has crusted firmly enough to handle) and place it directly on a baking stone (preheated).

My oven is always lined with quarry tiles or baking stones on the top rack and on the bottom rack.

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Hi. Is there anyone out there who owns both a clay pot and a cloche who would be willing to bake a loaf each way and report about the differences. Or maybe someone who uses a cloche all the time could bake some of their normal recipe once in a clay pot. I used my clay pot for 2 different recipes lately, but I'm not sure I'm completely happy with the results. I think Rose's hearth bread turned out better on the stone than in the clay pot. With the clay pot you soak the bottom; then I line it with parchment and put the dough in it for the final rise. Before putting it in the COLD oven I soak the top. Then after a certain time I remove the top to brown the top of the loaf. There is a website at sourdo.com that suggested this type of method (starting in a cold oven) for some sourdough, so it sounded like a good idea.

Thanks, Beth

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sometimes the clerks at the hardware store knows-nothing. Keep looking, they are called quarry tiles. I found mines at home depot. Usually stashed, sort of hidden, since they are not the prettiest tiles!

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Hector - thanks for the reply - where did you find the unglazed quarry tiles? My home depot had not idea what I was talking about. thanks, Louise

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Louise, those are the tiles I found the first time I went looking for unglazed quarry tiles. The unglazed salito are about 1x1 feet right?

They are unglazed, so they will work, but my concern was if it has any other chemicals or dies that can be toxic, I never got around to find out.

Now I use unglazed quarry tiles, normally these come much smaller about 4 or 6 inch square, but I find that dealing with small tiles is much better in my oven. Cracking almost never happens (as opposed to a larger tile or the so many dozen $$$ pizza stones I went thru), and if bread of pizza stick, it is easy to shake loose the smaller tiles and unstuck your bread. Yes, it can get unruly since the smaller tiles shift, but you get used to.

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I went to home depot looking for unglazed quarry tile to use as a baking stone - and came home with unglazed salito - it looks like an unglazed Mexican terracottta tile. Does anyone know if that will work? One big tile was $1.08 so, if it works, you can not beat the price! thanks, Louise

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When I tried to print your Golden Honey Oat Bread I ended up with an 18 page document. Is there any way you could format your recipes so they print on 1 or two pages or so we could format them to print on a recipe card?

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Rose, have you baked on copper? I've just inherited a fatto-in-Italia copper pizza pan with tinned lining. Maybe use it for bread recipes calling to bake on a unheated baking sheet? I am afraid preheating this empty will damage the tinning.

Also, how about baking on Lodge's cast iron pizza pan?

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Hi...just wondering about the recipes that call for bottled water. We have a reverse osmosis system for our drinking water...would that be the same? Thanks.

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Matthew had great advice. I was looking at the bannetons for sale through Amazon. I think I could probably buy my own basket, and then sew a liner from a tea towel; the only difficult part would be joining the circular bottom to the other part. That would get rid of most of the bunching problem with the towel. I'm not sure I can do it for this loaf, but it's definitely an option for later on. By the way, I had my biga out overnight, but it wasn't too bubbly (at least, it was very different from the biga for the ciabatta). I'm assuming, however, that it will still work, at least I'm hoping that's so. Thanks, Rose and Matthew, for your advice.
Beth

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Beth,

If you don't use a banneton, then it will definitely spread out. Maybe it
would be okay (like your example of the ciabatta). These wide flat breads
bake much faster though because of the increased surface area, so that would
have to be a consideration. Also, this is a rather small bread, so I don't think that it would be as large or attractive as a ciabatta.

I'll wish you luck with the improvised banneton. It can be a little tricky. I had mixed results the few times I used one--sometimes it was fine, other times I ended up deflating the bread. My colander was a little too deep, and it is easier to deflate that way. Also, it is hard to fit a towel in without it folding or bunching in a few places--the dough tends to stick in these areas, also causing de-gassing.

I finally broke down and bought a real banneton, and it was much easier after that. I found one that was very reasonable. I'll send you the info if you are interested for the future.

Basically, the kind of towel you want to use is one that the dough will have the least chance of sticking on--so not a terry cloth. I used a tea towel. It is helpful to rub the flour into the cloth--you want enough so that the dough will not stick, but not so much that you'll have piles of flour when you turn it out. I think rice flour works the best to avoid sticking. Use that if you have it or can get it easily. I buy mine at Indian markets--it is much cheaper.

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Rose, I have two questions. On Saturday I'm making the Brinna's pugliese for the first time. I'm planning to have it rise for the 2nd time in a towel-lined 8-inch colander, since I don't have a banneton. Could one also have the dough rise free-form (like a ciabatta) or should it really be in some form of mold? Is there anything else to watch out for? How much flour does one put on the towel? I can't really afford to have any failures, as I'll be making it Sat. afternoon, and the potluck is that evening; of course, I could go out and buy another loaf to take (other than your hearth bread, which I made a few days ago and put in the freezer) but that is SO what everyone else does, not me.

Second, I bought Gail Sher's bread book (and eventually one of her writing books) because I figured if you endorsed her sponge method, I should see what else she has to say. Yesterday I made my second bread from the book, one with oats and ground up wheat berries. Now, the first thing I do with other books is make my mad calculations from volume to grams (at the same time as cutting the recipe in half!), hoping I don't make mistakes along the way. In all my excitement (you must remember I'm doing this when I should be WORKING at home) I forgot about adding the old starter, so I'm quite bummed out about that. But my question was this: the dough had the ground wheat berries, whole wheat flour, oats, some white flour, and I forget what else. I thought I'd take it easy and put it in the zo and let it rise in there. Somehow it never came together in the zo, there were just various groups of "clusters" jumping around, not one cohesive piece of dough. So I took it out, finished kneading it myself, and ended up baking it free form. The dough didn't feel like "normal" bread dough, it was very heavy in texture (esp with the ground wheat berries). Is that why it wouldn't it wouldn't form a normal dough ball in the zo? I went ahead and baked it, and somehow it didn't turn out to be a heavy bread in terms of crumb, so I was pleasantly surprised. At first I thought maybe I had made my conversions wrong - I did have to add a lot of water while it was trying to knead in the zo. At any rate, I am so used to all of your caring advice in your recipes that it's strange to wing it with "normal"recipes. At any rate, on Saturday it's back to the Bread Bible.

Beth

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Shuang,
I'll offer my thoughts. If you can find regular cast iron, I think that would be the best. I think there may be heat limitations for enamel, which may also vary by brand. If you're buying this for the no-knead bread, keep in mind that it bakes well free-form, so a pot is not a necessity. I think the main difference is you will loose a bit of height on your loaf.

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Could someone offer some opinions regarding this ebay dutch oven I am looking at? I will be going to Paris for a couple of days at the end of the month. Is it worthwhile to lug one or two Le Creuset cast iron items back? Thanks.

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I am living in Singapore and it's no easy task to find a cast iron dutch oven. I came across one on ebay that describes it as "Deluxe Porcelain Enamel Dutch Oven (5 Quarts or 5.68 Litres). Never used. Fine Teka Enamel Ware. Features: - Vitreous Enamel Coating for Easy Cleaning - Stainless Steel Rims & Flameguards - Heat Proof Knobs & Handles - Dishwasher Safe." The seler says that she does not know how it will do in an oven. It's not surprising since most people here don't ever bake. Do you think it should work? Should I buy it? I do have a pizza stone already. Should I just stick with that and forget about the cast iron dutch oven?

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My experience with our ovens, one indoors with a stone insert and the other out doors with a firebrick hearth. First as we heat the firebrick its color changes from stained black to white. When it is white we mop it down with water to remove any ashes and to build up humidity in the oven. The indoor oven we let the discoloration burn off by turning the oven on as hot as possible. The char adds to the crust in my opinion.
As far as banneton use, we started to use the plastic ones from Germany. Following their instructions of spraying it with a water/olive oil mix and dusting with potato flour and then plain flour seems to allow a good parting compound for the dough to release. The embossed pattern holds well on the loaf.
What we can't do yet is get those large holes in the crumb from the fermentation in proofing. Anyone have any ideas to help us. We want the kind of holes we get in the breads we buy in NYC little Italy. That crust and crumb make the trip worthwhile. How can we do that at home? Your bread Bible mentions it, we've tried all sorts of methods.

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I have a question about making the Kheema Paratha in the BB. Is it possible to make the dough and keep it in the freezer or fridge for a few days or weeks? There are only 2 of us. The dough recipe makes 4 breads. I don't think we can eat that many in one sitting. I often freeze pizza dough, and it works ok. Or, would I be better off making all the bread rounds, cooking them and reheating the uneaten ones?

I hate reheated pizza, so I'm guessing I won't like this reheated either.

Thanks

Mona
PS I will be making these with the completely fresh Chakki Atta from the organic shop here in Bangalore. I will let you know how they turn out.

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When I bake a bread that has an egg wash, the stone inevitably gets stains from the wash. It says on the instructions to avoid this because it will create odors when you bake. What can I do to clean the stone and avoid this problem ? Thanks.

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I'm using your book, the bread bible, and I am having a little trouble with bannetons. I tried to use a kitchen towel lined collander for a banneton, but my dough deflated when I removed it... not from it falling, but from sticking to the towel. The towel had short terry cloth loops... I think this may have been the culprit. I have read that linen apparently sticks less than cotton. Will cotton work?

Also, I am making a very wet sourdough, and to let it rise in the frig, is it ok to put it in the banneton in the fridge, or will this cause condensation and increase sticking? If so, how do I refrigerate the dough with out the banneton, while getting the positive effects of the banneton?

Thanks,

Nicholas

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Rose
I'm trying the Foley measuring cups and spoons you recommend using in your books, and can not find them on the internet. Do you know where I might be able to find them, or what would you recommend using?

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Why does the stone have be be preheated for 45 minutes? What would happen if I only preheated the stone for 15 or 30 minutes?

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