Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

http://class.fst.ohio-state.edu/fst605/laboratories/sample.pdf

here is a study done at a university showing chemically what happens when you use lye on pretzels. and why its safe if done correctly. i've always heard that if you don't use lye, you are just making twisty bread sticks.

Reply to this      Posted by: jason markey | January 27, 2009 12:05 PM #

I have The Bread Bible and in the pretzel recipe that uses lye and I'd love to make pretzels, but you give no comfort to the reader about eating this lye solution on their bread. What info do you have that assures you (and can assure me!) that consumpiton will not one day result in tumors or stomach cancer from ingesting lye. I am a soap maker and would love to make these pretzels but only if I have a bit more info. does it chemically react with the fat in the dough and saponify or something? Food grade and commercial grade are both the same chemical structure, what makes this safe?

Reply to this      Posted by: Jessica Studinka | January 4, 2009 7:52 PM #

Hello Rose,

On the equipment section from The Cake Bible, it said I can find the angel food cake folder from Vermont Country Store. However, I have e.mail them and inquire about this tool. It seems the customer service of that sore have no idea of what I was talking about. I appreciate if you have any idea of where I can find it.

Reply to this      Posted by: Helen | April 12, 2008 6:12 PM #

Matthew, those pretzels look soooo good and perfect. Wish I could taste them.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | February 3, 2008 8:48 AM #

I thought I would share a little baking experiment in honor of Super Bowl Sunday. These are four football pretzels from the Bread Bible from left to right: plain, egg white, baking soda, and lye. All four were baked for the same time on the same sheet. You can see that the far right lye pretzel developed a shiny and dark crust. The plain and egg white pretzels barely browned, but the egg white did develop a shine. Conversely, the baking soda pretzel darkened but lacks shine (apparently the soda solution, while a base, was not strong enough to gelatinize the starch, which would cause it to become shiny upon baking).

The baking soda solution is 16% (38g in 263g of water—about 2 tablespoons to a cup). I also thought of two further experiments. One would be to combine the baking soda and egg white treatments to promote both browning and shininess. The second would be to try boiling the pretzels in the baking soda solution (like a bagel). I think the boiling would help gelatinize the starch, but I’m afraid the crust might be too thick and the pretzels would probably loose their shape.

The best part about the lye solution was something I didn't anticipate. I did a blind taste test of each pretzel, and the lye pretzel was the only one that--for lack of a better word--tasted “pretzel-y.” The other three tasted like plain bread, but the lye version had that recognizable and characteristic pretzel flavor.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | February 3, 2008 12:59 AM #

My mother baked pretzels for us on cold winter days a special treat. I began making pretzels as a way to get the neighborhood together in that everyone participated in the "rolling". I baked a pretzel without the lye bath and it was as hard as a rock.

As a precaution I cover the unused burners on the stove with cardboard so the lye does not effect the finish.

For people who are leery of lye I tell them it is just a caustic soda!

Reply to this      Posted by: Dave | January 6, 2008 8:55 AM #

Does anyone have a good sourdough pretzel recipe? And, do you have any ideas for preventing the dough from shrinking after you roll it out?

Thank you!

Reply to this      Posted by: Mary | November 20, 2007 8:31 AM #

Well, sorry, but back to the syruping again - I have blogged and googled and consulted TCB, and still can't bring up proportions. Somewhere I think I saw, maybe it was Hector, mention a ratio - sprinkle 2T per egg, or 1/4c for 8 eggs - I just can't find it, and don't remember. Don't want to ruin tomorrow's genoise. Thanks for help as always. joan

Reply to this      Posted by: Joan | July 21, 2007 11:47 PM #

I don't know where to buy one, but Ive read you can substitute a muffin pan instead.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | April 6, 2007 10:41 PM #

please tell me if someone knows where I can buy a "friand " pan in the US.

Reply to this      Posted by: dawn | April 3, 2007 4:39 PM #

I was thinking about a little on top also when the filet is ready to serve. Of course, given the price of foie gras and that it can easily take center stage, it seems just a small dollop per filet would do it.

Let me know how it turns out!

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 22, 2006 8:49 AM #

Hey Zach,

Thanks so much! I also looked in one of the JC television cookbooks and couldn't find it. She did the sole with the tomatoes on the show -- you finish the dish by making a veloute with the juices, so maybe adding some pureed fois gras to that or on top at the end would be the way to go.

Tom

Reply to this      Posted by: Tom Natan | July 22, 2006 8:32 AM #

Tom,

A bit more detail. Someone from the cookbook list I'm on found this description in one of her books, though not an actual recipe: poached sole in a sauce of tomatoes, shallots and herbs garnished with the pureed foie gras. It seems that most information so far suggests the foie gras is only a side. However, I think if you find someone with a copy of "The Escoffier Cookbook," it might actually have a recipe in there.

Good luck!
Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 9:56 PM #

Tom,

Just to let you know I looked in the cookbook I referenced by Julia Child - no recipe there. I sent an email to a cookbook list I'm on to see if someone has a book with such a recipe.

In the meantime, maybe prepare the sole in thin filets, then spread a thin layer of foie gras over the sole and roll it up? Just a thought on creating your own version if you don't find a recipe....

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: ZachTownsend | July 21, 2006 6:04 PM #

Tom,

Yes, from what I have heard, a souffle or sole Sarah Bernhardt has to do with puréed foie gras. The reason I know this has to do with one of my favorite restaurants in Paris, Jesabelle's, that unfortunately closed in 1990. I got into a discussion with some people there once about dishes devoted to Sarah, and conicidentally, I held onto this tidbit of information. Sorry not to be able to provide a recipe, but I guess you could simply make a sole dish, then serve the pureed foie gras (pate) as a side. I have an old Julia Child book from the 60's/70's at home that I'll research for you.

Now I'm remembering that great piano player at Jesabelle's who actually new the piano piece "Wuthering Heights" that I requested....nice memories!

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 2:43 PM #

A little different subject, but with all the collective expertise here, someone may know. I was watching part of the Julia Child DVD compilation, the show on Sole Bonne Femme, and Julia mentioned that a variation was Sole Sarah Bernhardt -- without saying what that is! I have googled and found only that it may refer to adding pureed foie gras. Does anyone know or have a recipe?

Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: Tom Natan | July 21, 2006 2:23 PM #

You're welcome. I love learning as much as possible from everyone who posts and all the great questions and discussions.

Send some of the rain to Dallas to cool us off!!

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 12:59 PM #

True! and many thanks to you for providing the venue and all the great information! You've been great about getting back to everyone and providing the right answers.

Now if I could just get rid of this pesky full-time corporate job and do baking full-time, life would be perfect.
Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 12:54 PM #

Thanks!

I learned something interesting today....

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 12:17 PM #

What type of flavor does a lye wash create for the pretzel? I'm curious if I've ever tasted a pretzel with a lye wash and not known it. Do the pretzel companies in the U.S. use lye, such as Auntie Anne's, etc.? Now I'm going to have to go out and find a pretzel made this way because I'm so curious!

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 21, 2006 9:51 AM #

Thanks everyone for your comments!
I'm going to start working on my Munich-style pretzels now so they will be ready for Oktoberfest in my garden.

An interesting aside ... I have not started sourcing the food-grade lye, but I think I may actually find it stocked locally. I live in Minnesota and we have a vast Scandinavian heritage, and the signature Norwegian dish is lutefisk. It is cod cured in lye. Many Norwegian families (even those who have been here over 100 years) still make this dish for Christmas and other occasions. Churches have lutefisk feeds, and so on. The dish is no longer really eaten in Norway -- it was typical "peasant food" of the early 1900s and Norway has since moved on.

Thanks again for all of the help,

Amy

Reply to this      Posted by: Amy Caron | July 21, 2006 9:37 AM #

I ordered my food-grade lye from a chemical supply house. It is labeled food-grade and is fairly easy to find (I just googled it when I needed it). The trouble is, I had to order 500 grams -- that's enough to make pretzels and unclog any drain in the house! There are instructions for dissolving the lye pellets in water.

You do have to be careful if a typical non-food substance isn't labelled as food-grade. Any facility that produces a food additive can be inspected by FDA and has to meet specific guidelines. I worked in the research division of a large food product company and even the pilot plant was under constant inspection. Accept no substitutes!

Reply to this      Posted by: Tom Natan | July 20, 2006 11:12 AM #

I was thinking about Amy's comment about "going to the hardware store and start cooking with lye." This is probably a statement of the obvious, but before purchasing lye, Amy, I would make sure that it is definitely the "food grade" lye, which is probably not the version available at the hardware store. I had a similar experience one when looking for 100% cacao butter. Someone in the cosmetics/soap section of a store was trying to sell me their cocoa butter to use. The ingredients on the package stated "100% cocoa butter." However, this wasn't really "food grade" because although the product was pure cocoa butter, it was more than likely manufactured in a facility that makes other items that should not come in contact with a food items, thus making it not fit for consumption....something to keep in mind.

Sounds like Rose has the sources for food-grade lye covered in The Bread Bible.....I'm not a bread baker, but I'm fascinated by this topic. I should get this book for reference, at least.

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 19, 2006 1:29 PM #

Will an egg wash work, too, or does it not work for this type of dough?

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 19, 2006 12:29 PM #

Hello,

I made pretzels once awhile back. It seems the shine came just from a light brushing of melted butter when they were removed from the oven and cooled somewhat. I can't imagine having to use something as extreme as a lye wash to accomplish this (although perhaps there are food-grade levels of this). Besides, who wants to have to stock lye wash just to make pretzels??

I immediately thought of Rose's Challah recipe she posted on here because it has a photo and the bread is very shiny, using an egg glaze. I would think you could accomplish the same thing for the pretzels, glazing them before baking them. Do a search for "Challah" on this site and the first article to come up will be the photo I'm talking about.

I'm interested in knowing more about this. By the way, I was in Alsace in May and watched two men make "bretzels" (as they call them there) and saw them put what looked like an egg glaze on them before sliding them into the oven.

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 19, 2006 12:18 PM #

Hi Rose and other readers...

I am trying to figure out how to post this question to the group, but this is the only place I can find.

I am a pretty experienced baker, and I would like to make pretzels like the ones you find in Munich. In my research, it seems that a lye wash is recommeded for the shine and even flavor it provides.

I am a bit hesitant to just go to the hardware store and start cooking with lye ... does anyone have any experience in this area?

Amy

Reply to this      Posted by: Amy Caron | July 19, 2006 12:01 PM #

Re: friands --- Oh, I think I know!! I have cousins in Australia, and my sister's boyfriend lived there for many years. I think they are similar to financiers, the buttery French almond cake made with eggwhites, but instead of the "gold bar" shape that gave them the French name, friands are baked in a "flan ring", or loose-bottom tart pan, with berries scattered over the surface. They sink in and bake level with the top. Does that sound remotely similar, Pat? If so, there is a recipe in my boss Nick Malgieri's book Great Cakes.

Reply to this      Posted by: Reeni Espino | July 16, 2006 10:06 AM #

Dear Rose,

I have been baking from your books for years and wanted to tell you how much I enjoy them. Your challah recipe has been the hit of the fall holidays two years running! I recently made the maple-walnut variation of your caramel-pecan rolls because a Vermont friend gave me some maple sugar. I baked them together and the rolls came out very tasty, but the syrup seemed to evaporate too quickly and they were dryer than I'd like, even though the rolls were tender and not dry. Then I tried the silicone big muffin pans, which were an improvement, but I decided to make twice as much of the syrup (doubling ingredients, but using 1/4 cup of real maple syrup along with the Log Cabin because I ran out...) and they were even better. The maple syrup added a hint of sweet crunch to the topping. My Vermont friends love them and say they're better than the buns they get at home. So thanks for the inspiration!

Reply to this      Posted by: Tom Natan | July 13, 2006 2:59 PM #

Hello!

Rose, hope you're having fun on your vacation and not seeing any more bears! About friands, I only know of the French term "friandises" which means small cakes, petit fours, etc. but have not heard of "friand." Pat, is this the same term but has taken on a different spelling and pronunciation in Australia maybe? My assumption based on your description is this is some form of petit four with the adopted and modified French name.

Interested in knowing...

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | July 1, 2006 9:17 PM #

along the same line as steve, the newborn break baker, who posted the message thanking you for your book, i would like to do the same. i have always loved the artisan breads from the bakery, especially the rye breads. for a long time i had a bread machine which made always made the house smell like fresh bread, but deep down inside i knew something was missing from making bread with the machine. it just never had the same look or taste as bakery bread. i wanted to be able to make the bread i loved but i had no idea what made that bread come out that way. one day i decided to find out how and went to the bookstore and found your book. i thought your book was the easiest to understand out of the ones i browsed and after making the basic hearth bread i was on cloud nine. you decoded the secret of making bakery bread which i thought would be impossible to do. sponges, bigas, poolishes and sourdough have now become a part of my family.
thank you, thank you, thank you so much. i know everyone with your book feels the same,
david

Reply to this      Posted by: david | June 26, 2006 10:59 AM #

Yesterday I began the process of making your Basic Soft White Loaf Sandwich and I have just gotten through letting my husband give his 'expert' assesment. He was thrilled that I was baking bread again after so many disappointments.

He was even more thrilled when he tasted the final result. Thank you for your pursuit of excellent recipes and for your dogged perfectionism.

Suzan Bulaga

Reply to this      Posted by: Suzan Bulaga | June 25, 2006 6:29 PM #

Hi Rose

Heard you recently on two podcasts and learned a lot about cake-making techniques - thankyou.

I've recently come across friands and was wondering if you have a basic recipe. They seem to feature here (in Australia) a lot with a couple of strawberries sunk in the finished product. Quite addictive. A change from muffins.

I've bought the friand pans and believe the little cakes include ground almonds. I am about to start experimenting and am keen to know the pitfalls.

Cheers from Down Under
Pat

Reply to this      Posted by: Pat Churchill | June 25, 2006 9:28 AM #

Hello Rose, Enjoy both your blog and your cookbooks (and your "sister blog" at breadbasketcase...what a hoot) I have two cookie questions for you, and hope I am posting them in the right spot.
I make icing for cookies using a Joy of Cooking method that melts butter over a double boiler, add milk, add confectioner's sugar and vanilla, and it suggests that you heat the icing for 5 min over barely simmering water to cook the cornstarch and lose the metallic taste. The icing tastes great, but the problem is sometimes it gets grainy. I am pretty sure that indicates that I am heating it too much. My question for you is, is there a particular time/temperature combination that you are aware of that is sufficient to just cook the cornstarch, without "cooking" the sugar? I would like to be able to do this a little more precisely.
My second question is this, I would like to freeze the cookies already iced with the above icing. I know it is best to freeze cookies without icing, and ice them when defrosted, but do you know any tricks that might help me freeze the already frosted cookies. I am making a ton of them and it would be MUCH simpler if I could just defrost them and they were already frosted. Thanks in advance for any advice, and thanks for the detailed instructions you always give in your books, as a former lab biologist, I really enjoy the precision of your recipes!!
Chris

Reply to this      Posted by: Christine | June 23, 2006 9:06 AM #

Okay, I have a little anecdote to tell. Rose, when reading through the equipment section of your Cake Bible last night, I ran upon your picture/description of the "Angel Food Cake Folder," the item that looks like a large slotted spoon that you mentioned is quite extinct. I was amazed to see this because several years ago when my Great aunt of 95 years died, my mother was part of distributing her estate and ran upon that very item in her kitchen cabinet. My mother held on to it and showed it to me to tell me about it. My aunt used to make delicious pies with incredible meringues that were better than anyone else's (as was our opinion) in those parts of small-town Kentucky. Her meringues were incredibly tall and had those caramelized tips on the end of its peaks. She would get up at 3:00a.m. every morning (she went to bed just after the 6:30 news) to make several and would distribute them to whomever was lucky enough to visit her that day. My mother told me she remembered my aunt whipping all those meringues by hand using that wooden-handled slotted-spoon joined to its metal frame with springs (I've held it and I don't find it comfortable at all!). I called my mother last night after I found your discussion of this spoon in the book and told her about its official purpose; she was very pleased to find this out. She also told me the handle used to be colored (yellow or green or some other color) but that the paint was worn off, no doubt from all those years of whipping by hand. When my parents come for their visit next week, my mother said she would bring it to me so I can keep it or display it; I can't wait to have it. I also have her original Sunbeam mixer from the 50s, in pristine condition because I guess she did most of her mixing and whipping with that spoon.

Zach

Reply to this      Posted by: Zach Townsend | June 22, 2006 9:49 AM #

Thanks, Rose. I will look for the other recipe.

By the way, I did measure the flour by weight, but my scale may be less precise than needed. The finest gradation is 50 grams.

Dave Boyce

Reply to this      Posted by: David Boyce | June 21, 2006 4:41 PM #

I tried to make foccachio last night, following the recipe, and it ended up as soup.

The dough never made that magical transformation into a shiny elastic ball of dough after 20 minutes on the #4 setting on my KitchenAid mixer.

Two places I might have gone wrong: Maybe the water should have been warmer.

- I measured it using an instant-read thermometer and it was on the low end of between 70 and 80 degrees F.

- I added the water in two doses rather than gradually.

It was disappointing. But then making bread never was a walk in the park.

Dave Boyce

Reply to this      Posted by: David Boyce | June 20, 2006 4:27 PM #