Subscribe to thisBlogger Aaron Solves Dry Chocolate Cake Problem!
I've been using Rose's chocolate cake recipes for nearly two years, and always had the same problem - I weighed every ingredient carefully, had the oven spot on 350, and every time, the cake would bake perfectly, but would serve out dry and crumbly. The strange thing was that when I made yellow or white cakes, this didn't happen. Last week I figured out why.
When you use hot water to dissolve the cocoa powder, then let it sit to cool, some of the water evaporates. I stated measuring the water/cocoa mixture *after* it cooled, and found that I was loosing as much as two ounces of water, depending on the conditions in my kitchen! Adding a little room-temp. water, just before mixing the cocoa/water with the other ingredients has totally solved this problem. Just last weekend, I made a wedding cake with a 12-inch, two-layer middle tier of chocolate, baked and iced the day before the event. When served, the cake was soft and moist and the texture perfect.
Rose Reply
aaron, i am so enormously grateful to you. after 18 years you are the only one to solve this problem. i thought it was over -baking. then i thought it was miss-measuring the flour. finally i thought i'd never figure out what people are doing without actually being there and if not for you i probably never would have.
you see i always cover everything with plastic wrap that is not going to be used right away--especially chocolate and water!
now i will be sure to add this vital piece of information to the new book.
Comments
If I make cupcakes out of any cake recipe...various sizes like the paper nut cup size or mini muffin size, or regular cupcake size; how do I adjust the cooking time accordingly? Is there a formula to follow? Thank you!
Posted by: Diana | November 5, 2006 12:51 PM #
cupcake-size is usually around 20 minutes, smaller start testing after 10.
fill the liners about 3/4 full. if using silicone pans you won't get dipping in the center but with paper or foil cups which have less stability you probably will get some slight dipping. it seems to help to let the batter sit in the pans for about 20 minutes before baking.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 5, 2006 3:48 PM #
Funny coming across this post after having made chocolate cupcakes today, which turned out disastrous...just like my last few batches of cupcakes, haha. My baking has gone from bad to worse. *sigh*
Posted by: Robyn | November 8, 2006 1:22 AM #
I plan to bake two or three cheese cakes for a holiday party. to be able to re-use the spring form pan ( and not to lose the bottom, is there a way I can remove each one from the bottom of the spring form pan
Posted by: Betty | November 9, 2006 9:40 AM #
you can wrap a cardboard round of the proper diameter to fit into the bottom of the pan with foil.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 9, 2006 7:42 PM #
I had this problem tried all sorts of possible solutions. I tried using a real cheesecake pan - solid form with a metal plate in the bottom - This solved the spring form causing the cheesecake to become "off round" as some stuck to the springform as it "popped". With a cheesecake pan you could stand the pan on a 28 oz can of vegetables slice around the sides and body of the pan drops down. This still leaves the bottom to take care of.
I tried parchment rings but with my cheese cake still the question/problem of the bottom removal.
Then I saw something that was "almost a revelation". Large Metal rings. You place a piece of parchment paper on the an UPSIDE DOWN sheet pan (get the heavy Restaurant Quality ones). THen make the Cheesecake inside the metal ring on the top of the Paper. After baking and cooling you now just remove the ring and you have a large surface to gently pull on and remove the paper.
Posted by: John | November 10, 2006 6:06 AM #
I have sent these great suggestions to my daughter who does cakes etc for weddings. Thanks, Sandy Bell
Posted by: Sandra S. Bell | November 10, 2006 11:14 AM #
Although I liked the solution proposed by Aaron who solved the dry cake problem, I was a little concerned by his statement, "Adding a little room-temp. water, just before mixing the cocoa/water with the other ingredients has totally solved this problem." Seems to me that a more accurate way would be to weigh the cocoa water mixture immediately after it's mixed and jot down the weight. Then after it's cooled, weigh it again and add enough water to bring it back up to the proper weight. That way it will be spot on with the recipe.
DB
Posted by: Don | November 10, 2006 1:14 PM #
but of course i would never randomly add more water. as i mentioned above, i cover the mixture with plastic wrap so that it doesn't evaporate in the first place. what i appreicated was discovering that it's important to mention this!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 10, 2006 8:51 PM #
Hi Rose it's me again, I ordered a buttercream cake and the girl said it was a buttercream that she uses ALL BUTTER. I loved it. I was soft and I did not taste the 10x suger. I'm sure that the sugar was regular suger. Now it was creamy but stiff. I wondering if you know any recipe that taste like this? Also, I did the mousseline, swiss buttercream and did not taste like the cake I ordered. I make my frosting with 1 c. butter and 2lb of domino's conf. sugar. I don't like the frosting because it's like eating the sugar straight from the bag! Help???!!!!!!!
Posted by: CELINES | November 14, 2006 8:57 PM #
why don't you ask the girl how she makes the buttercream you like. she just might tell you or at least give you some hints. ask her if it's made with 10X or what kind of sugar. ask her if she adds anything else. little by little you make get to the recipe! i can't help bc i've never tasted this buttercream. i like the ones i offered in the book and have never tasted ones i liked better.so i'm at a complete loss to help you. your best bet is going to the source.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 14, 2006 9:06 PM #
Ok. Thank you. You've been a great help.
Posted by: CELINES | November 15, 2006 1:17 PM #
Please excuse my ignorance as I am a novice baker just getting started. Can you please tell me what is the difference or what is the different effect on a cake using butter vs. using oil? In searching for a carrot cake recipe I noticed 9 out of 10 recipes use oil. I'd never given it much thought before...thank you.
Posted by: Martha DeLeon | November 16, 2006 4:48 PM #
despite the fact that you can no longer see either oil or butter once it is integrated into a cake its original characteristics of consistency remain the same, i.e. butter will become hard when refrigerated while oil will stay liquid and soft. carrot cakes are usually made with oil partly bc they often are frosted with cream cheese buttercream that needs refrigeration and partly bc they are delicious cold so oil is the better choice. in a nut shell: oil results in a softer texture in a cake but less flavor.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 16, 2006 10:19 PM #
I just wanted to say thank you to Aaron and Rose for finally figuring out the dry chocolate cake conspiracy! I made the devil's food cake recipe tonight and covered the cocoa as it cooled, and everyone agreed it was my best chocolae cake to date! Yay!
Posted by: Jennifer | November 19, 2006 2:02 AM #
wonderful--thanks for reporting back!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | November 19, 2006 9:59 AM #
I was making some hot fudge sauce. I doubled the recipe and the recipe separated. Butter on top and then curdled looking chocolate slop. What happened?
Posted by: Kathy Stanaway | December 12, 2006 4:40 PM #
overcooked so it separated.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | December 12, 2006 4:51 PM #
Rose, I'm so glad I found your site. I had a similar disaster with 500g high-quality chocolate which I overcooked. I kept it in the fridge hoping I might find a use for it. Have you ever heard of a use for curdled chocolate? What might mask/complement the 'new' texture?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Victoria.
Posted by: Victoria | January 4, 2007 7:39 AM #
I use the non traditional buttercream icing recipe (cake bible). However I have found that it doesn't "hold up" at room temepratures and I cannot pipe it with any success. It does have incredible flavour though. I was at a party where a local cake maker had a cake which was said to have "buttercream icing". This was piped into flowers etc. It was very stable at room temps (70's plus).
However it had very little taste texture was almost but not quite cream. Any suggestions as to what they may have done differently. I was thinking perhaps some form of gelling agent?
Posted by: John | January 4, 2007 9:20 AM #
Re the evaporating water and cocoa problem. I never boil the water- the only reason to have the water warm in the first place is to allow the cocoa to mix easily and it will do this with warm water as easily as with boiling (or with asmaller amount of veryhot water and then adding the remainder cold). his avoids the evaporation issue AND you don't have to wait forever for to to cool. As abad girl who never reads ahead in recipes and has limited capacity for delayed gratification, this has saved me much agony in the kitchen.
Posted by: Virginia | January 7, 2007 3:33 PM #
I made the triple chocolate cake from the Cake Bible for my son's 17th Birthday and have a question about melting the chocolate in the water for the genois. I stirred for a very long time, slowly in creasing the heat from low to med low in tiny increments, but the mixture never really came to a boil. It did start to thicken but soon started "separating" with the oil floating on top. It did remix and incorporate after cooling so I did use it. Is this normal? Additionally, the Genois baked without rising, but I'm also dealing with high altittude issues in Denver (5200 feet). I thought the water loss due to evaporation would account for decresing the water for high altitude baking, but I was incorrect or the decrease was either too little or toom much. Is there someone out there who can give me some specific tips for my altitude? Thanks!
Posted by: Marti | January 8, 2007 12:43 PM #
I have one correction/addition to the last post regarding melting the chocolate for the genois in the triple chocolate cake: in helping me, my son accidently only added 4oz of bitersweet chocolate to the water. This is why it didn't thicken, but I'm not sure that it accounts for the oil separation. Also, I don't know if that affected the genois not rising properly or not. Any thoughts?
Posted by: Marti | January 9, 2007 1:24 PM #
virginia, the reason i add boiling water to the cocoa is that it breaks the cell membrane and releases mega flavor components.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 14, 2007 1:50 AM #
marti, the separation surely ocurred from too much heating and now that you discovered you didn't use enough chocolate that would explain why you had to cook it longer to thicken. all this would effect the cake but high altitude presents yet another problem which i can only speculate about since i live only 7 floors above sea level.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 14, 2007 1:52 AM #
john, the buttercream you tasted sure used a fat that was not butter. they have these types of ingredients and cake decorating supply stores. it's not something i favor however. mousseline is my fav. buttercream and holds up beautifully. but any buttercream made with butter will be more suspectible to heat. dipping your hand in ice water from time to time and switcing bewteen two piping bags so one has a chance to cool down helps a great deal.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 19, 2007 11:24 PM #
To Aaron or someone else who has made the Perfect All-American Chocolate Butter Cake successfully:
How should this cake slice and serve? I made it today and I think I overcooked it a little. I was careful to weigh all of the ingredients and I covered the cocoa/biling water with plastic wrap as it cooled. (I also weighed it right after I mixed it and again when it reached room temperature to be sure it was the same.)
The cake had a great chocolate flavor and didn't taste too dry, but the slices crumbled when I tried to serve them (especially toward the center of the cake - the narrow part of the slice). During the course of cutting and serving it seemed all of the slices were missing about a third toward the pointy end and there was a pile of crumbs in the center of the serving dish. I assume the cake should not serve out this way.
Any help you could provide would be appeciated.
Thanks,
Brian
Posted by: Brian | January 22, 2007 1:09 AM #
it does sound like it was slightly over-baked but it is a very tender cake (though shouldn't have piles of crumbs). next time you make it try = weight of bleached all-purpose flour and it will definitely hold together better.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 22, 2007 9:10 AM #
Although I am a good cook, I am a notoriously bad baker. I made a decision to learn to bake and have tried very hard to measure carefully and follow directions (I have been slack in both of these areas). I have made a few batches of cookies which weren't cookie (as most times my cookies come out like one flat cookie!). I have also made a few pans of blondies - but the past few times I tried, they were crusty on the outside and caramelly on the inside. Is my oven too cool or too hot? I measured very carefully; I'm about to give up on baking entirely. Help!
Posted by: Rosemary | February 3, 2007 2:27 PM #
before you give up try one of MY recipes. if you are reluctant to commit to the cake bible or rose's christmas cookies, try one of the recipes under sample recipes on www.thecakebible.com (note the lemon poppyseed cake should use the flat beater not the whisk once the dry ingredients are combined)
it's very hard to help you with recipes i don't know.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | February 3, 2007 2:44 PM #
I am fortunate to have a freezer full of raspberries from our garden. I have tried to make your sour cream coffee cake using mostly defrosted berries on top of the streussel topping. It tastes good but is very heavy. Can you help me figure that out or do you have other raspberry suggestions other than the raspberry sauce which I do make.
Thank you in advance, Gail
Posted by: gail | March 5, 2007 5:18 PM #
once frozen the best use for them is a purée or sauce.or raspberry jam!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 5, 2007 5:32 PM #
Hi Rose, just a note to say your books & recipes are fantastic. I have had my own wedding cake buisness for over 10 years & are now studying science food & technology. My children love making the yellow butter cake & chocolate butter cake into cup cakes (I always have egg yolks left over), as they can do it themselves, as its all in one bowl. Perfect every time.
Louisa Morris
Australia
Posted by: Louisa Morris | March 6, 2007 6:01 PM #
thank you louise--that's great to hear and your kids are so very lucky to get such an early start!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 6, 2007 7:53 PM #
Hi Rose,
I just wanted to follow up on your suggestion to use bleached all-purpose flour to make a firmer cake. I too have noticed that all the cakes I have made so far from the Cake Bible tast fantastic but fall apart easily. So are you recommending that we use bleached all-purpose as opposed to cake and pastry flour?
Posted by: Merideth Bisiker | March 8, 2007 1:58 AM #
yes--they are very tender and it's fine to use equal weight bleached all-purpose flour.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 8, 2007 6:54 PM #
Rose,
Thank you so much for answering my questions. I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to tell you that I am so thankful for The Cake Bible and for this blog. You are so quick to answer everyone's questions, and so generous with your information and time. Your passion for baking is so obvious, and I thank goodness for it! I also very much appreciate the technical side of The Cake Bible. I like to know the reasoning behind cooking and baking, and you've helped that need along. I can't wait to buy your new cookbook. In the meantime, I wish continuous success and look forward to seeing what you come up with next.
Merideth
Vancouver Island
Posted by: Merideth Bisiker | March 9, 2007 12:12 AM #
that is so very kind of you merideth. and i wish you very happy baking--i see you live in a very beautiful part of the world to do it in!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 9, 2007 12:24 AM #
Hi Rose,
I too am a huge fan of yours. Your book is the one I use most often even though I've got tons to choose from.
My question is, I use your cake recipes to make cupcakes and they come out beautifully but when I make them into mini cupcakes, on most of them, when cooling, the cake seperates from the papers. What's going on here???
Thanks in advance!
Aviva
Posted by: aviva | March 9, 2007 10:02 PM #
over baking causes cakes to pull away from the sides of the pan and since they are mini they are no doubt baking a little too long.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 9, 2007 11:06 PM #
I have had a problem with my cakes not completely cooking in the middle, therefore, I overbake them, and then they're dry. My oven temp is ok. Sometimes I use a baking core, others, I don't. Could it be the oven? Even when the temp is correct do some ovens just not bake correctly? It is an electric Fridgidaire.
Posted by: cindy | March 16, 2007 10:37 PM #
try using cake strips to slow down the baking at the edge of the pan.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | March 16, 2007 11:10 PM #
Hi there,
I overcooked a chocolate cake and now it's crumbled to bits. Any suggestions on what I can do with the bits, please? It was a resonably large cake, and it's not that dry (just not cake shaped) so I'd hate to waste all those ingredients. Is there hope? :)
Posted by: Kat | March 25, 2007 1:22 AM #
Oh my goodness, there are a million things you can do. Mix the bits along with chocolate chunks in your favorite mousse or mix with whipped cream and name it something. My family's favorite dessert is "Brown Bear" (it wasn't a long leap from what a bear does in the woods to what I said when the cake collapsed).
Posted by: virginia sybert | March 25, 2007 6:30 AM #
Kat,
Turn that unsighly pile of cake bits into a work of art by making a trifle.
Patrincia
Posted by: Patrincia | March 25, 2007 6:06 PM #
I'm having the same problem with making dark chocolate cake layers with all different recipes including the Cake Bible's All American Chocolate Cake. I bake in a temperature correct oven, and I take out the cakes when the toothpick comes out clean and the sides are just barely pulling away from the pans. I thought perhaps I was overmixing, so I cut back on mixing. I've tried the baking strips, playing with oven temperature, different levels in the oven.... my problem is this. I let the layers cool completely, wrap in plastic wrap then in ziplock bags with all air sucked out. I will freeze the cakes for a couple of days until I have time to frost, etc. The layers seem to deflate and are quite fudgy and flatter than I would like. I do use Plugra butter which I know has a bit more butterfat. Should I cut back on the butter, or do you have another suggestion?
Posted by: Susan Musta | June 11, 2007 4:51 PM #
all of my cake recipes are intended to be made with a high quality nationally available butter of the percentage of butter fat listed in the cake bible. they do not work well with high fat butter such as plugra which i use mainly for puff pastry.
when you use ingredients other than what are specified don't be surprised by the results that are different from described.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | June 11, 2007 5:02 PM #
Hi Rose
I have just baked the chocolate butter cake twice over. The first time I made a mistake and mixed up the two batches of cocoa and ended up beating the egg mixture first, and adding the cocoa-water mixture later. The cake was amazingly soft and moist and has stayed so for 5 days now. However I was mortified at my mistake and immediately rebaked the cake correctly, this time. The resulting cake was not as tender....and had a denser structure. What has happenned here? I need to bake it again....and am confused.
Thanks
Yasmin.
Posted by: Yasmin | June 24, 2007 8:11 PM #
PS.
By "mixed up" I meant I got confused between the two cocoa mixtures that lay on the counter,and interchanged them!!
Posted by: Yasmin | June 24, 2007 8:14 PM #
i've done the same thing and it seems to work pretty much the same way. adding the eggs first would make it more tender due to the fat in the eggs but if you prefer it that way and it's not too tender, i.e. doesn't fall apart or dip in the center, go for it!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | June 24, 2007 8:59 PM #
I was thrilled to see that someone addressed the dry chocolate cake problem. I have been using the Cake Bible for 3 years and have had that problem frequently. However, I ran my own experiment on the "evaporation hypothesis" and am now a bit skeptical that it is the culprit. I mixed the boiling water and cocoa powder (I use Valrhona cocoa for taste and a nearly black color for the cake) to make the Perfect All American Chocolate Torte recipe (p.56), weighed it, then let it cool without covering it and weighed it again. At 30 minutes, it had lost 1/4 oz in weight, and at 60 minutes (completely cool) it had only lost about .35 oz according to my eyeballing the scale (it is not digital). It was definitely less than half an ounce. If I take .35 oz as the loss, that is only 5.4% of the total original weight of the mixture, and it was replaced by several teaspoons of water. That doesn't seem enough to have caused the extreme dryness I have experienced in the past, and it is nowhere near the 2 oz loss reported by Aaron.
Aaron might have been using more liquid for a different cake (such as the Chocolate Butter cake) and ambient temperature and humidity would affect evaporation rate. My kitchen temp was 72 degrees under central air (low humidity) and the bowl for the mixture was not wide and shallow (which might increase evaporation). I think it is a good idea to cover the liquid as it cools, but I'm not sure the dry cakes were caused solely by water loss. I wonder if Rose thinks a 5% moisture loss would make a difference. Maybe it is sufficient.
I have also discovered that my measuring cups varied from each other, and when I weighed the flour and cocoa as opposed to using the volume measures I got a much more moist cake.
I'm so spooked by the dry cake issue, that I put a dome over my cake when it's cooling after the first 20 minutes. I didn't know how much moisture was lost by the cooked cake as it cooled and didn't want to take a chance. I have even added 1/4 cup vegetable oil to the batter to try to insure moistness (it seemed to work and it didn't affect the taste adversely- it held the height of the cake down by a quarter inch or so).
I would love to keep experimenting on all the different variables that might be involved but I only have so much time, cocoa powder, and calorie-burning capacity (yes, I must taste all of my experiments!) for this research!
Posted by: Cloyd | July 13, 2007 2:44 PM #
Cloyd - I hope you continue to experiment and will report back with your findings. Sorry we can't all help you taste test :)
Posted by: Patrincia | July 13, 2007 2:51 PM #
another problem could be the valrhona cocoa. it is "heavier"--i think higher in cocoa butter. try green & blacks or drostes and i think you'll be amazed by the difference.
also of course the cake strip for the sides and do cover the cocoa/water mixture.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | July 13, 2007 3:08 PM #
If you have a fan forced oven, check the temperature with an oven thermometer, my thermometer is always in the oven. You will probably find that its temperature is higher, than the non fan forced oven. This may help with the over cooking / dry cake problems. I cook my cakes on 160-165 degrees (sorry Australian conversion).
I love to use the cocoa with 22 % cocoa solids, very chocolaty & smells divine, in your chocolate cake recipe Rose.
Posted by: Louisa Morris | July 14, 2007 6:57 PM #
when using convection it is recommended to use 25 degrees F lower temperature.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | July 15, 2007 11:30 AM #
Please tell me why my chocolate cake completely fell apart to crumbs I followed the recipe step by step
Posted by: kay | August 25, 2007 2:44 PM #
Kay - What recipe did you use? Did you allow the cake to cool for 10 minutes before you removed it from the baking pan? Did you allow it to cool completely before you moved it after that?
Posted by: Patrincia | August 25, 2007 2:50 PM #
Hi. I'm about to make the Perfect All-American Chocolate Torte. I searched the site so now know that the butter should be 10 tablespoons, not 8 (I could see that 8 tablespoons could not weigh 5 ounces). I have a question about springform pans. My old one broke; for a replacement I could only find a dark non-stick, and I find that other things I make in it cook too quickly. Any suggestions about maybe reducing the timing?
Also, I'd love to try genoise again after taking several years off. I used to make genoise from the Flo Braker book. If I made the smaller size they always worked, but if I made the bigger size I always had a rubbery layer on the bottom, despite (I thought) beating the eggs enough. Why should one size work better than another?
I love this site. I first found it because of the Bread Bible, but the site has led me to now try recipes from the Cake Bible.
Oh, one more question. Will the pound cake recipes work in a pyrex loaf pan? Should the temperature of the oven be decreased?
Beth
Posted by: Beth | September 25, 2007 8:15 PM #
always turn town oven temp 25 degrees when using dark or pyrex pans.
my génoise work the same in all sizes--at least the ones that i wrote about in the cake bible. i don't know what about flo's recipe would change this other than perhaps the quantity.
as long as the pyrex pan is no larger than the size i recommended it will be fine.
glad bread has led you to cake and hopefully back and forth again! next pies and pastry!!!
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | September 25, 2007 8:19 PM #
Hi again. I made the torte yesterday. The batter was delicious, and I'd say the cake was successful, as several of the guests ate at least 3 small slices. It was a little crumbly, but still delicious. I served it with some lightly whipped cream.
I'll probably try the genoise in the next week. I'm hoping that folding with a whisk will make a big difference, and I may even try folding in the Kitchen Aid after beating the mixture for 8 minutes (as the woman with the injured wrist has suggested). I always found that my genoise batter deflated too much when folding in the final ingredients, so I'm so glad to see the new techniques.
My sister's inlaws make pie crust in a different way; I haven't seen the Pie Bible yet, but thought I'd mention it. Instead of using butter or shortening, the dough is made with 2/3 cups vegetable oil and 1/3 cup milk (for a 2-crust recipe). You roll it out between layers of wax paper. I've had good success with it, though my old standby is still an all-butter crust made in the food processor.
I hope all of this baking will be a good addiction. Twenty-five years ago I wanted to become a pastry chef, but my life took another direction. Baking has always been my haven.
Thanks for this wonderful website. It is truly a wonderful source of baking information.
Beth
Posted by: Beth | September 28, 2007 11:47 AM #
Beth, I would use a large rubber spatula or a straightened slotted skimmer instead, unless you have the giant JB Prince balloon whisk, to fold genoise. Trust me!
I get rubbery bottoms on the Moist Chocolate Genoise if I haven't whipped the eggs enough, the chocolate seems to heavy the batter down and collapse on the bottom of the pan turning into rubber. So for this chocolate version you need to be more careful. It is also important that your oven is well preheated and you just can't load your oven full of cakes; genoise requires a rather high and quick initial temperature so it sets before collapsing.
Try the Golden Genoise, I warm the eggs and keep them warm while beating them (I use my water batch mixer attachment), it wonderfully triples in volume no matter what. After adding the water (warm), I beat more until the consistency sets again. Then, when I add the clarified butter (warm), I fold very-very well without fear of deflation, actually it deflates to about 2/3. But magic happens in the oven, the cake rises twice in volume! The Golden Genoise is a denser cake than the classic version, but the crumb is so fine and tasty that I call it a 'refined' American yellow butter cake.
Posted by: Hector | September 28, 2007 1:57 PM #
I agree...I find a rubber spatula works better than a whisk for folding the ingredients into a Genoise. I LOVE THEM!
Posted by: Bill | September 28, 2007 4:49 PM #
disagreed. The #1 way is to use the JB Prince Matfer giant balloon whisk as recommended in TCB. Pictures and exact model number are posted on the blog. The #2 way is to use a straightened slotted skimmer. The third way is a large rubber spatula.
My point is that a smaller whisk will not do, only that giant one. So unless you have it, use the rubber spatula or slotted skimmer.
Posted by: Hector | September 28, 2007 5:14 PM #
I'd like to get back to the question of cakes that are too crumbly. I made the Chocolate Domingo cake today. It was very good, but just a bit too tender & crumbly. The whole cake was like that, but especially towards the center. It was not dry, however.
There's no boiling water in this cake, so I don't think that evaporation was the problem. I weighed all the ingredients. I used Valhrona cocoa. My baking powder & soda were a bit "old," so I used about 1/8 tsp. more of each. Could too much or too little leavening be the problem?
There were also a few large bubbles & tunnels in the finished cake. It was not tough, though - quite the opposite.
Other ingredients were just as described. O.K., I added 1/2 tsp. of instant espresso powder & 1/4 tsp. cinnamon, but I really don't think that was the issue...
Butter was room temperature (about 68 or 70 F), eggs were room temperature..
I only have a hand-held power mixer, so that's what I used.
It was a wonderful cake and I'm certainly going to make it again. I'm just not sure what to do differently...
Well, I'm going to try the magic cake strips. That much I'm sure of.
Next time I think it will be topped with a very thin glaze of bittersweet or semisweet chocolate. This time I did the powdered sugar topping with swirls of piped chocolate.
Posted by: Barbara | October 16, 2007 10:49 PM #
Barbara,
When I first started reading your post, I was going to say that your butter may have been to warm, but then you addressed that. I think the extra leavening is the culprit; too much leavening can make a cake as you described. If you are concerned about your baking powder, you can test it by pouring some hot water over it and see if it still fizzes and bubbles. Of course, the easiest thing is to just buy fresh, as I'm sure you will for your next round.
Posted by: Matthew | October 16, 2007 11:13 PM #
Hi Barbara,
Here's a previous comment from Rose re: Valrhona cocoa.
"another problem could be the valrhona cocoa. it is "heavier"--i think higher in cocoa butter. try green & blacks or drostes and i think you'll be amazed by the difference."
Although I use Val. choc for almost everything in my bakery, I too was having some trouble with the cocoa in cake batters - similar to reports of other bloggers here: crumbly or somewhat dry cakes. I switched to the Green & Blacks, and I think it makes all the difference. You might give that a try.
Best,
Jen N
Posted by: Jen N | October 17, 2007 12:18 PM #
Barbara, agreed with Matthew and Jen N.
I keep my Rumford (aluminum free) baking powder in the refrigerator and vacuum packed. It keeps well and consistent. I've done the 'xtra powder' experiment with your similar odd results.
re Valrhona, it is an excellent brand on the bitter side (high cacao content). Mostly is the chocolate connoisseur who will appreciate a bitter cake, but for the 'commoners' a sweeter cake is preferred. I use Callebaut for the commoners!
Chocolate IS a personal taste.
Posted by: Hector | October 17, 2007 3:45 PM #
Thank you everyone for your helpful comments. Definitely going to use the correct amount of leavening next time. I've tested the baking powder & it's O.K. The baking soda box has been sitting open for YEARS, so it will get replaced & stored better next time.
Jim and I both love very dark, bitter chocolate -- still thinking about whether or not to change the brand of cocoa. Maybe I will change the cocoa in the cake & use a bittersweet chocolate glaze on top to give that extra chocolate "hit."
Thanks again!
Posted by: Barbara | October 17, 2007 11:45 PM #
everytime I bake cupcakes the paper patty pans come away from the cakes as they cool..Can you let me know why this happens and how to prevent it? it's driving me crazy..
thanks
Posted by: louise | October 26, 2007 5:41 PM #
I baked chocolate cupcakes yesterday using Rose's recipe. I love her recipes they taste divine. However, I have had problems with the cupcake patty comming away from the sides, I believe that the mixture is being over beaten. So I have gone back to the regular slow way of baking cakes, creaming the butter & adding the flour & cocoa mix / milk with a rubber spatular,(not mixing it in the mixer) until it gets a nice "gloss or shine" to the batter. The results are perfect every time.
Hope this helps.
I also tried the chocolate cake with regular cocoa as suggested, it also worked well.
P.S. I'm not a fan of licking the bowl, however the smell of the mix was too good to waste & the taste was like eating delicious chocolate icecream.
Posted by: Louisa | October 26, 2007 6:57 PM #
idea: why not use paper liners that have not been coated with baking or cooking spray. the batter surely will stick to the paper and not pull away from it.
interesting solution you've found though and since it works for you that's great. just thought i'd mention this bc i use baker's joy to coat the paper liners and still they never pull away from them.over development of the gluten and overbaking could indeed result in that.
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | October 31, 2007 6:33 PM #
Maybe I missed something along the way, but I've never even thought of spraying cupcake liners with any kind of spray... I thought the whole idea of the paper or foil liners was to eliminate the need for cooking spray. Anyway, I've never had the paper liners pull away from cupcakes or muffins. Could it be a moisture issue? (not removing the cupcakes from the pan to cool on a wire rack?)
Posted by: Patrincia | October 31, 2007 7:20 PM #
I made both the Chocolate Fudge cake and the All American Chocolate Butter cake using cupcake liners.