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Holy Bread!
Yes it Works!
Several people have contacted me regarding the article in Wed. Nov. 8, 2006 NY Times: “The Secret of Great Bread: Let Time Do the Work.” Although the techniques described in the recipe are not new to me, the combination of them was, so I stopped everything I was doing or planning to do Sunday late afternoon and threw myself into dough production. 20 hours later here’s the report: The results are exactly as promised—very large holes in the crumb, light texture, thin crisp crust, and an absolute minimum of MIXING effort.
As far as putting the dough into an extremely hot and heavy pot, I think I’ll stick with other equally effective methods such as a heavy baking stone that holds the heat and ice cubes tossed into a preheated cast-iron pan or perhaps the new device I’m testing that has a relatively light-weight metal lid that also gets preheated and a very effective steaming device to create steam contained by the lid.
The flavor of the bread developed during the long 12-18 hour fermentation (I gave it 15 hours) was indeed superior to a shorter rise with higher amount of yeast but not as good or as deliciously complex as when I add some of my old starter. Also, I would add my usual 7 to 8 % whole wheat or kamut flour for extra flavor and no compromise in texture.
I like the ease of minimal mixing coupled with long slow rise which develops the gluten more gently resulting in the larger holes. I also like the flavor and texture of bran instead of flour on the outside. I intend to try these techniques with my pugliese recipe which has a slighter higher 80% hydration and different mix of flours.
Two important caveats to the Times’ recipe:
I watched the video on the Times’ website and noticed that only 1 1/2 cups of water was used, not 1 5/8 cups as was listed in the printed recipe. The 1 5/8 cups, which is 1 1/2 cups plus 2 tablesopons, constitutes an extra 2 tablespoons of water bringing the hydration to 82% as opposed to 75%. Using the 1 1/2 cups of water the dough will be much more manageable, especially for those unaccustomed to handling very sticky doughs.
Also on the video it was recommended that an oven temperature of 500°F. or even higher be used to bake the bread but in the printed recipe a more reasonable 450°F. was listed. I hedged my bets, used 475°F. and after 30 minutes of baking the bottom became slightly over browned toward the blackened stage. (Some people like their crust this dark.) Also, the bread was fully baked (210°F. internal temperature) and the top crust beautifully browned without the need to continue baking it for 15 to 30 minutes as was indicated in the recipe.
I usually wait a week before making any recipe from a newspaper to see if there are any corrections because a weekly paper is under such a heavy deadline pressure there are often little or big glitches! In this case my eagerness to try it overcame my good judgment but luckily someone sent me a link to the video. And that’s the beauty of the baker’s % and weight. Realizing that I had used too much water, all I had to do was rebalance the dough by gently stirring in the additional flour to bring it to 75% hydration and the extra yeast and salt to balance the extra flour. As you can see from the photos—no harm done!
If you’d like to have weights for the ingredients:
3 cups (unbleached) all-purpose or bread flour/468 grams flour
(I used Harvest King flour and would recommend replacing about 3 tablespoons) with equal weight or volume of whole wheat or kamut or about 3 tablespoons)
1 1/2 cups water 354 grams/12.5 ounces water
1/4 teaspoons yeast/ 0.8 grams on a scale designed to weigh such small amounts
1 1/4 teaspoons salt/7.5 grams (i used 1 3/4 teaspoons 10.5 grams 2.2%)
For those of you who may not have access to the article, the basic technique is to stir together the flour, yeast, and salt and then gently stir in the water for a few seconds--just until the flour is moistened to form a soft shaggy dough. The dough is then covered with plastic wrap and allowed to rise at around 70°F. for 12 to 18 hours or until the surface is filled with bubbles.
The dough is then scraped onto a floured counter and with floured hands, shaped into a ball by folding it in thirds like a business letter in one direction and then repeating this in the other direction. It is inverted onto a towel which has been dusted with bran or flour. The dough is then dusted with bran or flour and loosely wrapped in the towel. It is left to rise for about 2 hours or until when pressed with a finger tip the depression fills in slowly.
The risen dough is then inverted (seam-side up) into a preheated 6 to 8 quart enameled cast-iron Dutch oven and covered with its lid. (Or as I suggested above, inverted onto a piece of parchment, set onto a baking stone that has been preheated for at least 45 minutes at 450°F. and steamed with a handful of ice cubes thrown onto a preheated cast iron pan set on the floor of the oven (if you forget to preheat it you can do so on the cooktop).
Finally, I am grateful to The New York Times, Mark Bittman, and Jim Leahey for doing so much to get people excited about baking bread. I could see from the video that Jim Leahey’s mission, like that of any good baker, is to get people making and eating good bread.
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guen, sorry to dissapoint, the answer is no. crust is not as great than baking free form in a preheated high humidity environment. lets say when I slice the bread, my table top only gets half as dirty with crust shatters (this may be a good scientific measurement of crust quality!).
however taste is awesome!
try see the pics I posted of my Zo bread. I am baking this on the Zo which I believe heats up rather quickly because of how it is built. the heating element is very uniform and close to tha pan. I am just trying to go green and save energy and also doing this at my office where bringing a traditional bread oven and dropping dough the artisan way would be too distracting.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | December 10, 2008 11:07 AM #
Thanks Hector, I will try your bread. I am curious about the crust, though. Is it a great crust even without the preheated cooking pot?
Reply to this Posted by: Guen | December 10, 2008 10:33 AM #
Guen, I've posted several trials, and yet have to find an answer. I must say, there can't be such thing a no knead bread made with sourdough starter.
My theory is that the long fermentation process with sourdough weakens too much the gluten, thus you end up with a wet sponge cake like texture more than a feathery bread.
What I am doing now is to use a low hydration bread, with sourdough, and it is close to no knead: I only knead once at the beginning, to incorporate all the ingredients, then I let it rise for about 12 hours in a loaf pan where the bread will bake. There is absolutelly no more mix/knead work nor transpering to a preheated pot. The bread is fantastic, the taste SUPERB, the texture is feathery, but it does not have holes. I've posted about this under Artisan Who Loves The Bread Machine.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | December 8, 2008 8:41 PM #
I am new to making bread but have done several loaves of NKB. Love the crust, but the flavor is bland.
I see that several of you suggest using a sourdough starter instead of yeast, and I would love to do that, but don't know how to begin.
Specifically, there are a lot of sourdough starter recipes out there. Which do you more experienced bakers suggest that I use? Also, how much should I add to the dough instead of the 1/4 t yeast? Anything else I need to know about converting this recipe to a sourdough one?
Reply to this Posted by: Guen | December 8, 2008 3:10 PM #
Rose,
thanks for your prompt reply dated 4/12/08 re.: ABi5. Was your ABi5 baking based on the "Master Recipe"? If not, what changes have you made?
How would you go about making batards using the ABi5, and baking forms? I wish to make batards with large holes.
I know how to shape batards (per your book pg. 69). However I do not know how how to place the batard, in the form, with the seam down, and then, before baking,flipping the batard over with the seam up.
Reply to this Posted by: Jerry | April 13, 2008 6:23 PM #
Hi Rose,
I've been baking ABi5 by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoe Francois since I purchased the book when it first came out a few months ago.
This bread is fabulous, and, yes, I've kept the dough in the fridge for 2 weeks and the loaves just get better and better. I don't like a real sour taste, and you would think that after 2 weeks, this is exactly what you'd get. But what you get is a very nicly balanced, complex flavored bread. The crust and crumb are wonderful, nice hole development, but the texture I found a bit on the wet side. But I've found asolution: I've made 90 (not a typo!) loaves to date and what I have discovered is when baked in my 5 quart Lodge Logic Dutch Oven ($31.99 at Walmart) the finished product is Just Right.
When ready to "shape" a loaf, I gently fold the dough from left to right (to meet in the middle) and then from top edge to bottom edge (to meet in the middle)and then I flip it, seam DOWN on top of a very well-floured (or wheat bran'd) silicone sheet or linen towel. That is it for the "shaping".
I let it rise, uncovered, for about 2 hours, mindful not to over-proof. I preheat the covered pan for one hour(while bread is rising, of course) in a 450F oven on the middle shelf, which is lined with six (6" x 6" each) unglazed, quary tiles at 31 cents each from Home Depot.
When it's time to bake, I flip the bread seams side UP into the pan (I do not slash it as the seams will blossom beautifully on their own), cover it with the very hot lid, and bake it for 30 minutes. Then I uncover it and continue to bake it at 450 for 25 minutes or until it is nicely browned and shows an internal temperature of 210 degrees. I let it cool, still in the uncovered pan, on a rack for at least 3 hours, so that the inside structure is nicely cemented and not gummy.
By, the way, when I was a child, we would often bake our bread in an old cast iron pan on a campfire that was well-embered. Nothing new here, because cast iron bread baking is as old as dirt!
Visit Jeff and Zoe's sites; they are lovely people and wonderful bakers:
http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/
and Zoe's siste:
www.zoebakes.com.
Thanks, Rose, for this great discussion on NKB - you're tips are great.
ValerieSara
Reply to this Posted by: ValerieSara | April 12, 2008 5:02 PM #
Hi Rose,
I've been baking ABi5 by Jeff Hertzberg and Zoe Francois since I purchased the book when it first came out a few months ago.
This bread is fabulous, and, yes, I've kept the dough in the fridge for 2 weeks and the loaves just get better and better. I don't like a real sour taste, and you would think that after 2 weeks, this is exactly what you'd get. But what you get is a very nicly balanced, complex flavored bread. The crust and crumb are wonderful, nice hole development, but the texture I found a bit on the wet side. But I've found asolution: I've made 90 (not a typo!) loaves to date and what I have discovered is when baked in my 5 quart Lodge Logic Dutch Oven ($31.99 at Walmart) the finished product is Just Right.
When ready to "shape" a loaf, I gently fold the dough from left to right (to meet in the middle) and then from top edge to bottom edge (to meet in the middle)and then I flip it, seam DOWN on top of a very well-floured (or wheat bran'd) silicone sheet or linen towel. That is it for the "shaping".
I let it rise, uncovered, for about 2 hours, mindful not to over-proof. I preheat the covered pan for one hour(while bread is rising, of course) in a 450F oven on the middle shelf, which is lined with six (6" x 6" each) unglazed, quary tiles at 31 cents each from Home Depot.
When it's time to bake, I flip the bread seams side UP into the pan (I do not slash it as the seams will blossom beautifully on their own), cover it with the very hot lid, and bake it for 30 minutes. Then I uncover it and continue to bake it at 450 for 25 minutes or until it is nicely browned and shows an internal temperature of 210 degrees. I let it cool, still in the uncovered pan, on a rack for at least 3 hours, so that the inside structure is nicely cemented and not gummy.
By, the way, when I was a child, we would often bake our bread in an old cast iron pan on a campfire that was well-embered. Nothing new here, because cast iron bread baking is as old as dirt!
Visit Jeff and Zoe's sites; they are lovely people and wonderful bakers:
http://www.artisanbreadinfive.com/
and Zoe's siste:
www.zoebakes.com.
Thanks, Rose, for this great discussion on KNB - you're tips are great.
ValerieSara
Reply to this Posted by: ValerieSara | April 12, 2008 5:01 PM #
Rose,
where can I find your test results of bread using Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day by Hertzberg/Francois? I have used the Five Minutes a Day technique for a while, with very good results. However I have problems developing bread with large holes.
Reply to this Posted by: Jerry | April 11, 2008 7:39 AM #
Hi Rose
I am trying to make a baguette from the Bible. It comes out looking beautiful and on my second attempt, the crumb was perfect with uneven holes and nice color inside and out. The crust is nice and hard and thin but very chewey. My friends, to whom I give away one loaf, are loving the chewey crust, but I would like to get a little more crumbly crust. Any idea how to achieve this. Thanks
Salma
Reply to this Posted by: salma | March 23, 2008 10:10 PM #
thank you david--i couldn't have said it better myself!
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | March 12, 2008 2:21 PM #
Meg,
I certainly don't speak for the blog author, but I would guess that your heating pad was too warm and killed the yeast. It isn't imperative to keep it at 70 degrees. My home is cooler in winter--just 60 at night. You just compensate by letting it rise a little longer if your temp is below 70. You'll actually get better flavor with a longer, cool rise. It isn't a bad idea to use a thermometer stuck in your dough to monitor its temperature if you aren't sure how warm or cool it is.
-David
Reply to this Posted by: David L. | March 12, 2008 2:11 PM #
I attempted to make this bread yesterday and it was rising nicely in the windowsill until I realized that the sun was going to go down in a little while. I placed the bowl on a heating pad and used that for the rest of the 12 hours. This morning when I took the dough from the bowl, it poured out and I couldn't do anything with it. I had to nix the whole batch. Do you think it was the heating pad that did me in? Is there something else I can do to keep the bowl warm for 15 hours? I am really excited to try this bread, and the soup I got was pretty disappointing. Please let me know if anyone else has run into this problem.
Reply to this Posted by: Meg | March 10, 2008 8:28 AM #
Hi there, just tried this recipe and it was very good. My dutch oven is a 12" deep Lodge Camp oven (cast iron) with 3 legs. It is far too heavy and too big to put on an oven shelf, so what I did was put a layer of fire bricks on the bottom of the oven and set the dutch oven on the fire bricks. That put the bottom about 3-4 inches off the bottom of the oven. This set up worked great. I have plenty of head space so I'm going to try multiplying the recipe times 1.5.
I put it in the frig initially after mixing it for 8 hours, then put it at room temp for 16 hours. I think I'll try it for 24 hours in the frig next time. Still in keeping with the theme of simplicity but gets the kind of flavor you would get from a preferment, I think.
I shaped it onto floured parchment inside a 8 inch basket, and then just slid out the parchment and held the parchment by the corners and gently plopped it into the dutch oven.
Someone above had asked about parchment burning at 450 or above. What I've found with parchment is that the standard kind doesn't stand up to really high temps as well as the one that is sold at Whole Foods. It is a brown package with a green stripe and doesn't seem to have a brand name. The paper itself is unbleached and is a brownish color. When I make rolls, I proof them on a piece of this parchment on an upside down half sheet pan. I then slide the rolls into the oven right on top of my tiles. The Whole foods parchment can be reused about 2-3 times before it becomes brittle and breaks down.
-David
Reply to this Posted by: David L. | March 3, 2008 9:59 PM #
jerry, re spring water, i only recommend it when in regions where the water is exceptionally hard or has the taste of sulphur. do a side-way-side test so you can decide if it's preferably in your area to use spring water.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 21, 2008 7:37 PM #
I saw a follow-up on the NKB in the Cooks Illustrated and decided to try this one.
3 c flour, 1/4 t yeast, 1-1/2 t salt, 3/4 c water, 1/4 c lager beer & 1 T vinegar.
It was hard to get the mixture moist, so I had to add a couple of T addl water. I left it for 18 hrs. Kneaded it for 3 minutes, made into a ball and placed it on a parchment paper in a frying pan. Covered it with plastic and a towel. 3 hours later, I baked it as usual in cast iron pot (slashed the top a little). The bread rose higher, the crust was thin and crispy with a fabulous color. The crumb had large holes but was a little squishy thou very good. I baked covered at 450 for 20 min and uncovered at 425 for 8. May be I shd have baked longer.
My next one I substituted 1 c wh/wh flour and after letting it rise 12 hrs, I regrigerated it to see the results if left 3/4 days. Will let you know.
Reply to this Posted by: salma | January 15, 2008 2:39 PM #
you're not actually baking at 500*F--but since the heat lowers 50*F when you open the oven, and then you lower it to 450 it never really gets higher than that for very long. parchment gets brown but i've never had it burst into flames!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 15, 2008 10:06 AM #
Rose,
On page 363 (item 6) of The Bread Bible you call for the use of parchment paper placed on a baking stone pre-heated at 500*F. However parchment papers have a limitation of 450*F. Is the paper safe at 500*, or you are using a special paper?
Reply to this Posted by: Jerry | January 15, 2008 10:01 AM #
Rose,
do you see any advantage in using spring water instead of tap water ( which, among other things, contains chlorine, fluoride etc.)in breadbaking?
Reply to this Posted by: Jerry | January 13, 2008 5:53 PM #
did anyone try it after 5 days in the frig?
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 13, 2008 4:13 PM #
Hi Rose!
I've tried it the Artisan in Five bread and love it.
Posted recipe for the book's Sticky Pecan Caramel Rolls and a Nutella & Roasted Hazelnut Challah up on my site at
www.steamykitchen.com
Reply to this Posted by: Steamy Kitchen | January 13, 2008 4:06 PM #
o.k. got it from the internet! will need a few weeks to report back.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 13, 2008 4:03 PM #
p.s. if you could post the recipe i would really appreciate it and it will speed my trying it. i seem to have misplaced it. or else i can probably get it from the times on line.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 13, 2008 4:01 PM #
yes i will be trying it. what i'm particularly interested in seeing is what happens when it sits refrigerated for 5 days to a week.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | January 13, 2008 4:00 PM #