Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

In The Wedding Cake Book by Dede Wilson, the author states to use 2 9" recipes for a 12" pan, but Matthew's way would certainly work too (just different math involved). Either way, I believe Rose suggests not filling the pan more than 1/2 to 2/3 full.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | October 17, 2007 10:05 AM #

Cynthia, as Patrincia said, you could double the 9'' recipe, or you could also multiply the 10'' recipe by 1.5 --In either case, you'll get a bit more batter than you need--modifying the 10'' recipe is a little closer to the correct amount.

Reply to this      Posted by: Matthew | October 17, 2007 9:43 AM #

Hi Cynthia - do you have time to experiment a little (just in case)? I would make a double batch of your 9" recipe and bake it in your 12" pan. You might also use a heating core or flower nail in the center of the pan, use insulting baking strips around the outside of the pan, and adjust the baking time accordingly. (you may wish to lower your temp 25 degrees too, but Carrot cakes are pretty moist, so it's probably not necessary)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | October 17, 2007 8:07 AM #

I am looking for a recipe for a 12inch carrot cake that will be a bottom tier for a wedding cake. I have a recipe for a 9 inch and 10 inch but I don't know how to enlarge it to a 12 inch.
Does anybody have such a recipe or know what to do?

Reply to this      Posted by: Cynthia DiNardo | October 17, 2007 7:43 AM #

Thanks Patrincia, that it what I am finding out, that butter cakes indeed are very strong, specially when chilled.

What happened on the Hawaii Way cake (eleven tiers of single layer cake) is that it tilted. All my plastic pegs were pinned even and straight (Wilton's hidden pillars), but it still tilted which became noticeable specially on the top tiers. I had plastic separator plates on each layer too, but the cake was actually frosted on a cardboard plate. I could imagine the weight on the bottom layers flattening the millimeters of cardboard, thus causing the tilt, a cumulative effect.

Irotated the cake, so the tilt wouldn't be obvious to the passing buy guests, and also for photographing!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 5, 2007 6:02 PM #

Hi Nushera, will post the recipe soon - it's super easy!

Reply to this      Posted by: Elicia | October 4, 2007 11:21 PM #

I haven't had any problems with cardboard rounds flattening when I've used them for butter cakes. Some people stack 2 or 3 together (alternating the grain of the corrugations). Others choose to use foamcore instead... you can find it at art or craft stores (it's easily cut it with an X-acto knife, but I never seem to get it perfectly round so I prefer the precut cardboards).

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | October 4, 2007 10:03 PM #

Cathy, the cake plate was a 16" pizza pan! covered with ILLY coffee beans.

My backgrounds are just my table and my kitchen, for the most part I try not to use an artificial background.

THANKS!!!!!! really humble pie.

P.S. One word of advice when stacking tall and heavy, DO NOT USE cardboard separator boards even if lined over a plastic separator plate. Cardboard tends to get flatten, thus causing your TALL cake to tilt

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 4, 2007 8:49 PM #

Yes, that makes sense. I hadn't been thinking that through correctly. I think the 1" would be fine since I want the flowers to look full all around the circumference of each tier. But, I am more and more considering just doing a 14" , 10" and 6" like you did above. I like the look/height/proportions. As long as I had enough flowers....better order more sugar dough!

I will be doing a sample cake, so I know I will be able to decide based on that as well.

Thanks for the info on the super tall tiers. I had no idea how complicated it got!

Hector, what size cake plate did you use for your eleven layer cake? :) Just incredible! And like others have mentioned, your skills in photography really serve you well in addition to your expertise in baking & decorating. Do you usually use neutral tablecloths draped as background for photographing your cakes? Always well done.

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | October 4, 2007 8:41 PM #

Cathy - if you make very tall tiers, the slices will not easily fit onto the cake plates. I see 4 and 5 tier cakes all the time. Most super tall tiers have internal platforms made of foamcore (example: cake, filling, cake filling, fondant, foamcore, cake, filling, cake, filling, fondant). This makes the cake slices easier to plate, but it can be a bit messy and time consuming to cut.

Adding an extra tier is adding extra work for yourself. Kitchen cakes don't need to be as pretty as a wedding cake on display for everyone to see. But I do think your 12-10-8 cake would look more proportionate with a 6" top.

Back to the 2" discussion... If you do 2" graduated tiers, you will only have 1" of space surrounding each tier because the upper tier is centered on the lower tier, leaving 1" all around (1" on the left, 1" on the right, 1" in the front, and 1" in the back). Do you know what I'm saying?

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | October 4, 2007 6:43 PM #

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/09/another_hector_triumph.html#comment-67835

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 4, 2007 6:19 PM #

Cathy, the traditional cake is 12-9-6, but I FIRMLY believe that you can execute any other numbers. Odd sizes and shapes can turn into something beautiful!

In other words, use what you have, what is requested, what is needed, and turn it into something pretty.

It takes practice to train the designer, but it is your own.

One of my recent cakes was eleven 3-inch layers with only zero, one, or two inch difference in diameter. And the cake I've just completed today, is six 2-inch layers with no differences in diameter!

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/08/hectors_hawaii_cake.html

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 4, 2007 6:18 PM #

Cathy, the traditional cake is 12-9-6, but I FIRMLY believe that you can execute any other numbers. Odd sizes and shapes can turn into something beautiful!

In other words, use what you have, what is requested, what is needed, and turn it into something pretty.

It takes practice to train the designer, but it is your own.

One of my recent cakes was eleven 3-inch layers with only zero, one, or two inch difference in diameter. And the cake I've just completed today, is six 2-inch layers with no differences in diameter!

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/08/hectors_hawaii_cake.html

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/09/another_hector_triumph.html#comment-67835

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 4, 2007 6:18 PM #

I like that idea, Hector, and that was my original plan. But I was also concerned about the look of the 12", 10", and 8" being a bit flat/wide. What do you think about the look? I will have flowers on top.

I guess I could try 3 layer tiers. That would make it about 6 1/2-7 " tiers. Would that be too tall?

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | October 4, 2007 5:56 PM #

Cathy, just one suggestion. Instead of adding a 4th tier, you could make an extra 9 or 10" round or half sheet cake, separate. It may be well appreciated, to cut/serve this first before destroying the real big cake.

I've read somewhere in TCB or this blog saying to stick with 3 tiers, and if more cake is needed make extra separate cakes.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 4, 2007 2:34 PM #

Patricia,

1" should be fine, but I was thinking I'd have 2" since the difference in diameter is 2" each. But that is just cake...maybe you are saying with the added 1/2 frosting....? But I know there is 1/4" shrinkage when the cakes bake too....maybe you can explain it to me.

I've been looking thru the blog to see what I can find on 4-tiered cakes. I know Rose says in CB she stopped doing 4- tiered b/c (I thought) the size of her oven many years back. But is it that much more precarious when stacking (no columns)?

I already ordered the pans, so they are on their way. I'm also finding out for sure if the yacht will be sailing during the party or docked--that might change my nervy decision! :)

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | October 4, 2007 2:04 PM #

Hi Cathy - I agree, 4 tiers will look better than 3 in the sizes you described. If you do decide to make 4 tiers, you may want to use wooden dowels in at least the bottom tier.

What kind of flowers are you going to be making/decorating the cake with? The cake in the photo at the top of this thread was a 14-10-6, which gave me 2" around each tier for flower placement. If your cake is a 12-10-8-6, you'll only have 1" around each tier... are you sure that will be enough space for your design?

Here's a tip to help you visualize how much decorating room you'll have on top of each tier. You can either make a stack of up-side-down cake pans in the appropriate pan sizes, or you can stack 12, 10, 8, and 6-inch cardboard rounds for a birdseye view of the same thing.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | October 4, 2007 1:44 PM #

Patricia and others,

Do you think I'd be crazy to add another tier to the three-tiered party cake I am planning? He said they may be adding to their guest list, so I planned a 9X13 extra for the kitchen.

But now I am wondering, why don't I just add a fourth tier--it would be basically the same thing. And I'm thinking it might add to the overall look of the cake--12", 10", 8" (and possibly 6"). I'm thinking just the first 3 might look a little wide/chunky without enough height. I chose those sizes b/c I am making sugar dough flowers to be placed around the edges of each tier, and want it to look full.

This will be my first tiered cake, so I'm wondering if I am crazy to try a 4-tier. I've planned out the baking schedule so I can bake all the cakes within 24 hours...so that part would be challenging, but definitely doable. What do you think?

Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | October 4, 2007 11:34 AM #

Elicia, re yr rainbow jelly- is that made from coconut milk/cream and agar-agar powder? could you please post your recipe? i looked for that on the net but the results are confusing: difference in proportions nd method(regdng boiling nd cooling). thanks for help in advance.

Reply to this      Posted by: nushera | October 3, 2007 11:51 PM #

Hi Cathy - There are no firm rules about how tall the supports should be. You can make them any size you like, but I like them approx 1/4 to 1/2 inch taller than the tier for several reasons:

1) It makes placing the top tier easier to do without damaging the finish on the lower tier (gives your fingers a little more wiggle room).

2) Taller supports are much easier to pull out of the cake when it's being served.

3) Depending on how many tiers you have, it can add an inch or two to the overall height of the finished cake (that's a good thing). Just be sure your border will be large enough to cover the gap.

(keep in mind the tiers above should be on cakeboards or cardboard rounds that are the same diameter as the tier)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 26, 2007 5:59 PM #

I'm so glad we are conversing on this. I didn't realize that the straws should be 1/4 inch higher than the top of the tier underneath--I thought it was cut right at the top of the cake/icing. So what you are saying is that the next tier going on top never even touches the bottom tier, just sits on the straws? That makes sense b/c then it will not mess up the tier underneath.

I like the idea of the guide on the parchment paper.

Time for bed--Thanks again, Patricia.

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | August 26, 2007 1:54 AM #

Oh boy I could write a book on the subject :)

Okay, cakes using those dividers between the tiers are called "separated cakes" and cakes that don't use them are called "stacked cakes". I have never used the plastic dividers, but I haven't had anyone ask me to use them yet. Personally I think stacked tiers look more elegant, and it seems to be the style of choice right now (look at any bridal magazine).

If you decide to do a stacked cake, be sure to use dowels or straws to support each tier. The dowels or straws should all be cut to the exact same height for each tier, which should be just about 1/4 of an inch taller than the tallest part of your tier (that will make placing the next tier a little easier). There will be a slight gap between the tiers when stacked - easy to hide with a piped border. I have transported a 2 tier cake that was completely stacked, but I really prefer to stack and add the finishing touches on site.

Making a cutting guide on a cakeboard is a great idea! I've done them on parchment paper because it's easy to fold (helps get those pesky divisions perfectly spaced), and then I don't have to worry about it being thrown away.

There is so much more to say on the subject, but I'll wait until you ask :)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 25, 2007 7:23 PM #

Terrific advice. I can tell you have done a few of these! I'm writing all this down....I had actually thought of making a cutting diagram just yesterday--thinking of doing it on a covered cake board.

But the disp. glove(s) and hot dipping I had not--and those are biggies!

Thank you so much, Patricia.

Just thought of something else... I have seen "dividers" for tiered cakes that are white plastic. Are these necessary or can you just put the cardboard-supported tier right on the lower tier. I don't see that Rose mentions these other dividers in the CB.

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | August 25, 2007 6:55 PM #

Cathy - you ask the best questions!!!

I always unstack the tiers before cutting - it's too risky otherwise, and it would be awkward to try to cut and turn a cake that's 8 or 12 or 16 inches tall. Ideally it's nice to whisk the entire cake behind the scenes somewhere so you can get messy without 100 pairs of eyes staring at you. Unfortunately that's not always an option. It really depends on who planned the event - I try to talk people into cutting elsewhere.

If someone else is cutting the cake I will give them a full size cutting diagram to follow (otherwise you have no idea if they will do it right). I also suggest they hot dip the knife and dry it off between each slice.

Cake serving sets include a cake knife and a cake server. I find the cake servers to be a complete pain. I prefer slicing with one hand and catching the slice with my other hand (covered in a food safe disposable glove which not only keeps my fingers off the cake, but it keeps the sticky buttercream off of my hands).

Also, whoever ends up cutting should have at least one helper (two is better) to hand you plates, garnish the plates, serve the cake, hand out forks and/or napkins, get more paper towels, change the hot water, etc. Really the only thing the person cutting can do is cut and plate the slices - the helpers need to do everything else. Oh, wearing an apron is a good idea too.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 25, 2007 6:22 PM #

Patricia,

I hadn't thought of the different flavors phenomena. Great point. I appreciate you going into detail....it sounds like you were good with taking Rose's suggested serving in half. And you did not count the top.

How do you serve the bottom tier first? I guess you just took all the tiers off in the kitchen? Rose says you can cut and serve one tier at a time right there or take one tier off at a time and cut. I am wondering about how this is logistically done (I am such a novice and can't remember what people did at our wedding. Was there even a cake?....I believe so...I was too busy to know!) Does one discretely take each tier to the kitchen and cut and bring the pieces out? If so, does the rest of the cake left standing look unappealing at the very least, possibly messy at the most?? Or do you take the whole cake in the back and cut? This is not a wedding I am doing; and I believe the gentleman I am doing the party for has servants who will take care of the cutting and serving, but I'm just trying to know how to direct the operation if asked.

I feel like I did with my first child. Totally engrossed in making sure there is enough food! :)

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | August 25, 2007 5:51 PM #

Hi Cathy - at this point I have never used emulsions. I'm of the pure extract crowd. Probably most of the regulars on this board are too, but I was just wondering if anyone ever tried the other stuff.

As for the cake above - the tiers were 14, 10, and 6 inches in diameter, and each were 4 to 4 1/2 inches tall. The cake was supposed to feed 100 guests without serving the top tier. According to Rose's chart - the 14 and 10 inch tiers should have served 165, but I do find the sizes listed on her chart are a bit on the small side for this part of the country.

There were a few other factors I took into consideration too - this cake was the only dessert being served, the reception was being held at dinner time (hungrier guests), more people eat chocolate cake than any other flavor, and like you, I didn't want to risk running out of cake. Since it really doesn't cost much more, or take much longer to make the cake a little bigger, I decided to err on the side of caution. Also, the bride comes from a large family, so I knew any leftovers would not go to waste. I was later told that there was a total of 85 ro 86 guests, several people has second servings of cake, and there wasn't a lot left over, but there was some - which they were happy to enjoy the next day.

Since then I've discovered it's better to serve the cake from the bottom up rather than from the top down because it's much easier to store leftover cake on a 10" cardboard round than it is on a 14" cardboard round :)

Something else to keep in mind - if the cake is more than one flavor, you'll need more servings because many people will want to try both flavors.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 25, 2007 2:43 PM #

Patricia, How are you using emulsions?

Also, I just got on to ask you a question about your wedding cake (choc ganache photographed above). Can you tell me how many it served? Was it the only dessert and was there a dinner served as well?

I am trying to calculate for a party (70-85 people) in which the cake will be the main dessert. There will be dinner served as well. I'm not thinking I should go with the wedding serving sizes, but it may not be necessary to divide by 3 like we discussed before (to get reg serving sizes for main dessert). Whatever I do, I might have a sheet cake in the back just for assurance!

Any advice?

Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: Cathy | August 25, 2007 1:42 PM #

Okay baking buddies - what do you know about flavor emulsions verses pure extracts? I was always under the impression that emulsions were less than ideal. What say you?

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 23, 2007 11:26 AM #

Have a nice vacation and hurry back to us :)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 23, 2007 8:15 AM #

Wow, it's hard to keep up with all that happening on Rose's blog! Months ago you guys were talking about using real flowers on cakes, and I'd really like to do that too but my worry is pesticides etc. Does anyone know how to go about sourcing for edible, unsprayed flowers? Or is it ok to ignore the slight 'contamination' as long as the flowers are removed before cutting? I also thought about washing and soaking the flowers first -- would that remove the chemicals? I just made my first sold wedding cake (Rose, you would have been proud of me! It was your chocolate butter cake with your dark ganache and covered in creme ivoire deluxe, which made it look such an elegant ivory. Wish I could show you the pic but I have no website.), and the 18 sugar paste roses took me DAYS!! Although it is a work of love, it's also such a pain, and it's the thing that stresses me out the most because I never have enough time.
Rose, thank you for all that you teach and share, and for setting up this blog! You helped me live the dream of a pastry chef (at home!). My husband and I just started a business, and whenever he brings our cake creations to a proposal to a cafe, they are always well received and we are now looking at supplying them! Most of our creations are based on what I learnt from your books, so thank you!! I'm eagerly waiting for your new book. Thank you too, to all the eager bloggers here and all that you share!

Reply to this      Posted by: Su Ching | August 23, 2007 5:47 AM #

oops, I thought you were kidding :) (so embarrasing)

The plastic sheets you mentioned sound like the kind of thing the Library uses. Do you know what it's called?

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | August 10, 2007 3:18 PM #

Patrincia, I wasn't joking. Wrap the front and back covers of your books with saran wrap. It keept the jackets tidy.

You can also purchase clear plastic wrapping, made specially to wrap books. Easy to fold in, and secured with a few strips of scotch tape.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | August 10, 2007 3:14 PM #

Thanks Matthew