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Mousseline the Magic Buttercream!

Apr 02, 2007 | From the kitchen of Rose

Another Beautiful Cake from Patrincia!

Hi Rose, Here is a photo of the 2nd wedding cake I made this past weekend. I used your Mousseline Buttercream and you might be interested to know that the reception was held in a place that serves meals to senior citizens, so the room was warm before anyone arrived. Add to that about 100 people and a bunch of spotlights (one directly on the cake - yikes!)... so let's just say it was VERY warm. The great news is this - your buttercream held up extremely well for the 3 hours the cake was on display; it didn't slide or shift at all. I added grosgrain ribbon to match the bridal party - it stuck to the buttercream without any problems either. Thanks to you, this stay at home mom's can turn out cakes that not only look like they were made by an upscale professional bakery, but they taste like it too! Sincerely, Patricia Reitz (Patrincia), Winchester, VA

Comments

Woody Wolston
Woody Wolston in reply to comment from KC
03/02/2014 12:29 AM

Hi KC,
1. Crystallization can happen if the mixture is stirred after it starts boiling or if your thermometer has some sugar crystals on it as you insert it into your mixture. We at times will use a lab stand that holds the thermometer in the sugar mixture.
2. Having both the meringue and the butter within a degree of each other and between 68˚ and 70˚F is what is needed to produce the described buttercream.
It can look curdled for awhile and then recover with continued beating.

Rose revised the recipe when testing and writing "Rose's Heavenly Cakes".
The new method is to:
> make the Italian Meringue and cool it.
> cream the butter
> have both the meringue and butter within the temperature ranges as stated above
> add the meringue all at once to the butter and beat with th whisk beater to make your buttercream

You can see how the new method is done on YouTube. All of Rose's videos are on YouTube by doing a search for "Rose Levy Beranbaum You Tube" which will show a home page for Rose's videos. You can click "Video " on the menu bar to see icons with a photo from each video and its title. There over 150 videos. The mousseline buttercream video is titled " GM cake dvd2 03 - Mousseline Buttercream". The recipe is for the Chocolate Covered Strawberry Cake's strawberry flavored mousseline in "Rose's Heavenly Cakes"
Rose & Woody


REPLY

I made the mousseline buttercream today , doubling the recipe and here is what went wrong:

1. My sugar syrup was exactly at 248F and if formed little islands of crystallized sugar floating on top.
2. I added the syrup to the stiff peak egg whites anyway and they looked great and smooth at the end. I let the merengue cool then proceeded to add the butter one T. at a time and once I had added all the butter the mixture looked curdled. So I tried to whip it faster to get it to be a homogenized mix but it started to separate and I saw some liquid starting to pull out. Additionally the consistency was lumpy like almost cooked egg whites but it did not taste like it.

I did not want to risk any further and just added 2-3 cups of powdered sugar to bring it back to life.

I used a kitchen aid stand mixer with a whip attachment. When adding the butter I did so at speed 4.

What did I do wrong?

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Salted Caramel Italian Meringue Butter Cream a la Rose
Rose, I wanted you to see my rendition of a Salted Caramel Butter cream that I make from your original Neo Classic Butter Cream recipe. I shared it on CakeCentral.com. Here's the copy:

Pastry Chef 714

offline
1 Post. Joined Yesterday at 11:20 am
I have used an Italian Meringue variation of this recipe of Rose's for years with great success; depending on whether I have extra whites or yolks to use up.
For the Neo Classic Italian Meringue Butter Cream a la Rose, I make it exactly the same except use 7/8 cup egg whites
a pinch of cream of tartar
2 TBSP. sugar
Beat these ingredients to a meringue while the sugar and corn syrup come to a boil, then proceed as in the original butter cream recipe.
Today I am going to try this as a Salted Caramel Butter cream by using dark corn syrup and dark brown sugar, adding some sea salt to taste. I will use this on some chocolate gluten free cupcakes.
Thanks to Rose for this easy Butter cream:-)

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Woody Wolston
Woody Wolston in reply to comment from Bill
08/28/2012 09:23 AM

Hi Heros,
The Neoclassic and the Mousseline buttercream recipes are in both The Cake Bible and Rose's Heavenly Cakes. We revised the mixing order for the Mousseline buttercream recipe in Rose's Heavenly Cakes to minimize the chance of curdling.
We do not have an Italian Meringue buttercream stated recipe as it is similar to the Mousseline.
Rose & Woody

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yes, mousseline butter cream is the same thing as Italian meringue buttercream. Neoclassic buttercream is made with egg yolks and corn syrup, Italian meringue buttercream is made with egg whites and a sugar/water syrup...so they aren't the same.

I'm not sure what Itailan buttercream is...sorry.

Hope this was helpful.

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Heros Nascimento
Heros Nascimento
08/28/2012 02:58 AM

Hello Everyone!

I have been doing a lot of research on the different kinds of buttercreams out there, and I need some clarification on the nomenclature. Is Mousseline Buttercream the same thing as Italian Meringue Buttercream or are the two different somehow? Is Mousseline Buttercream also called Neoclassic Buttercream? ... and one more; Is Italian Buttercream the same thing as Italian Meringue Buttercream or are these two different?

It's so confusing! someone please help, Thank You! =)

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Sg, what r u referring to regarding 'covering' the cardboards? Wrapping them in foil? I don't unless it is a very wet cake such as a biscuit soaked in syrup.

Also, I don't like to use cardboard as support for any cake larger than 12". Even the 12" cake isn't working as support since it sits directly on the cake stand. If the 12" isn't your bottom tier and it is a tier above a larger cake (14", 16" etc), I will use a plastic separator plate such as Wilton's or a plywood round. Also, to hold the 12", I prefer wood dowel rods or chopsticks instead of straws.

The straw/cardboard method works PERFECTLY for 12-9-6 3-tier cakes! Beyond and below that use wood!

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Woody Wolston
Woody Wolston in reply to comment from sg
03/04/2012 01:25 PM

Hi Sg,
We suggest that you review the Intro section to the Wedding Cakes in Rose's Heavenly Cakes. A traditional 3 tier cake of 12, 9, & 6 layers can serve up to 150 people. The layers above the base layer need to be on cardboard rounds to sit on the straws. You can either cover edges of the cardboard rounds with frosting or piped decorations. The cardboard round tops for the cake layers resting on them do not need to be covered.
If you want a 4 tier cake, you can always make a non-cake fourth layer out of styrofoam or cardboard and cover it with frosting.

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Hello everyone!

I am going to be attempting to do a tiered cake for the first time serving 80 pp. I am attemping a 16-12-9-6inch 4tiered stack. but perhaps a 12-10-8-6inch would be plenty to feed 80pp?

I have your cake, pastrybible books and heavenly cakes. I read up in the cake bible about straw supports. But, it is a denser cake i am making with pastry cream inbetween the layers. Would it be better to use cake boards btween the tiers in addition to the straw supports? If so, I've read conflicting points of view whether to cover the cardboard circles or use them as is.

any points of view would be appreciated.

thank you so much!!!

s.g.

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Rose Levy Beranbaum
Rose Levy Beranbaum in reply to comment from Kat
02/21/2011 03:36 PM

kat, the color of butter varies according the time time of year. when cows can graze on grass the butter is more yellow. as far as tasting like sweetened butter--that's buttercream. the alternative is either flavoring it or using whipped cream.

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Help! I made the Vanilla Mousseline Buttercream for the first time. I'm making cupcake's with the chocolate buttercream cupcake recipe and decorating them to look like the Miette's Tomboy cake in RHC. The Vanilla Mousseline came out very yellow, and tastes almost like sweetened butter. I weighed the ingredients (yes - including the egg whites) and followed the instructions to the T. Any ideas what I may have done wrong? Can I use more egg whites or less butter to get a whiter frosting? I used Challenge European butter. Is there a whiter butter? Thanks for any advise.

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Debbie, I use Baker's Joy too and have had the same problem as you. What I do now is spray the Baker's Joy and then use a brush to apply it evenly in the pan. This eliminated the problem for me. Hope this helps.

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Debbie and Claudia, I've never had one of Rose's cakes (including the downy yellow) stick to the pan and/or crumble. Since that could be related to underbeating, I wonder if you are timing the beating and using a high enough setting on your mixer? Might also be worthwhile to check your oven temp with a thermometer left in the oven.

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Loretta, I also pour directly from the pan into the whipped eggs, it works for me.

To keep the sugar syrup from overshooting, I lower the heat on my stove as the sugar nears final temp, and remove it when it first reaches 247-8.

I then quickly pour it into the mixer bowl with the mixer running, aiming carefully between the beaters and the edge of the bowl (I don't stop the mixer to pour in the syrup in batches). The first time I practiced it with water before starting the buttercream.

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Your welcome. Hector raises a very good point, but I'd like to add that the sugar syrup will harden as it cools, even if it doesn't reach 248F, as is proven by the drops of hardened sugar syrup that end up on my kitchen counter before the correct temp is reached.

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Thank you for replying so quickly. Yes,glad to hear that its a method that works for you, eliminates one step and a dirty cup.
P.S. Love your blog.

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if the syrup hardened it is because it was heated above 248 oF.

sugar increases temperatures in jumps of 5 degrees or so. since you are experiencing hardening (due to overheating) i would heat only till 240 oF, and whatever time you are taking now, by the time the syrup is applied, it should have reached 248 oF.

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You mean pour the sugar syrup directly from your pan into the buttercream? If so, that's how I do it all the time. It works beautifully for me.

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I made a cake from Rose's Heavenly Cakes, Miette's Tomboy.The frosting was a vanilla mousseline,which complemented the delicious cake beautifully. My problem is that the sugar syrup hardened before all of it was poured into the egg whites. When I tried to soften it in the microwave,as Rose suggests, it crystallized.I had to make more sugar syrup, and then I poured it directly from the pot, to keep it from hardening.The buttercream came together perfectly.My question is can I use that method without harming the buttercream or does somebody have a better idea.

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Debbie, Having made a very successful, but stressful wedding Cake for my daughter this past November, I will add that the same thing happened to me with this recipe. I found it, for whatever reason not to be consistent. Many times, the sides would be soft and crumble. I weighed EVERYTHING! My stove temperature was as accurate as it could be. I believe this was due to the mixing method...for me that is. Rose is an incredible "Chemist of Baking", however, for what ever the reason was...this recipe was very inconsistent for me...as I said before.

Therefore, I used a Carole Walter Yellow Cake recipe which calls for the longer method of mixing. Heavy duty creaming of butter. ...slow adding of eggs. I made at least 12 different layers , sizes 6, 9 and 12 inches. All came out perfectly...no crumbling...very moist and flavorful. I did add a bit more vanilla. Carole's recipe calls for less liquid and a bit more sugar.

Also, just make the one recipe, and weigh it out in the pans dividing it. That is, half the recipe will fill one 9x2 inch pan or 2- 6x2 inch pans. One full recipe will be 2- 9x2 inch pans or one 12x2 inch pan.

Again, with all due respect to Rose, this just worked better for me...consistently. Each tier of the wedding cake was 2- layers of yellow butter cake, and the center was a layer of Amy's Devil's food cake with Rose's Chocolate MBC between the layer, Vanilla MBC on the outside, covered with Fondant. Good luck to you...and practice...practice....freeze....freeze

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Debbie, the only things I could guess are cake may be underdone and oven temp too low, or not running a mall icing spatula around the edges prior inverting the pam. Also avoid washing your cake pan the same day of baking, this
is the case for plain aluminum pans, traces of water or the pan been too clean will make the pan it's most sticky.

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Great info Barry. Many thx

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Debbie, I have had this issue a couple of times. I did use baker's joy generously, parchment, and used Rose's silicone strips. My cakes had pieces stuck on the sides only though. Another blogger in this forum (Carol) suggested it might be because there's not enough liquic (I'm at high altitude). I haven't tried the recipe again to see if this is the cause. This is not really helpful b/c I don't have the solution, but I want to let you know that you're not the only one.

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I've never had a problem with baker's joy. Did you line the bottom of the pan with parchment paper? If you did all of that...the only thing I can think of, is that you didn't use enough Baker's joy. Good luck and keep us posted.

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Help! I baked the yellow butter cake today for practice, and when I removed the layers (6" and 9") from the pans they didn't come out whole - small pieces on the bottom and or sides broke off or stayed in the pans. Could it be because I used Baker's Joy instead of greasing and flouring the old-fashioned way? Other then that, I followed the directions meticulously! My daughter's wedding isn't happening until 2012, but I want to be ready. Any suggestions, anyone?

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Hector, I believe you may be misinformed about induction cooktops. I hope this may clear up the confusion. Or maybe somebody will have to set me straight! The induction hob in fact generates heat within the metal of the cookware but not the food itself or the stove surface. The stove 'induces' an electric current in the cookware itself which causes it to heat from its own internal resistance.

Because the heat originates in the cookware itself, its still possible to unintentionally continue (over)cooking something with the residual heat in a thick pot. However its less of a problem because you don't have that hot coil sitting under the pan after you turn off a conventional electric stove. The induction cooktop doesn't heat itself up very much except by being in contact with the hot pan sitting on it.

This induction process requires enough iron in the cookware to have the right properties for this to happen. Thats why all cookware doesn't work with induction. It would take an awful lot of iron in the food itself to cause it to heat food directly! The advantage is that there are 1) no hotspots in the pan 2) you can change the level of heating or turn it off instantly without waiting for a hot coil to heat or cool down 3) and it uses electricity more efficiently than standard electrical cooktops and 4) some induction hobs are very powerful and can bring water to the boil more quickly 5) the stovetop doesn't get burning hot, just warm from the hot pan sitting on it and 6) splattering hot oil on the cooktop won't ignite it.

You should be able to verify this with your infrared thermometer. Put the induction cooktop on high with a cold pan of something and see whether the pan is hotter or colder on the outside than the contents you're cooking on the inside. If the pan is heating the food, it should be warmer than the food inside as it heats.

A microwave on the other hand does in fact generate heat within the first inch or so of the food itself.

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Cherimoya, you will notice with induction that your pot doesn't get hotter than the syrup, so yes: leaving the syrup in can't overheat.

I have done my fair share of tests, once I even heated the sugar to 252 degrees!

With gas or electric, specially more so with gas, the pot gets near as hot as the heating element or flame which is often always hotter than the food it is heating. With induction, the sides of the pot are heated by the food and not by the heat source, so never the sides of the pot can be hotter than the foodm

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Cindy, induction gives you instant heat control, both for on and off. I use my waring pro induction hotplate and my lagostina 7 liter pressure cooker (w/o the lid). Any stainless steel pot with a magnetic base would work. For chocolate melting, I use setting 1, when the bottom of the pot gets too warm to the touch, I turn it off. For heating eggs for genoise, also setting 1 and I let the bottom of the pot get hot that you could touch it only briefly, I stir constantly till eggs are 110 degrees. For making syrup for italian meringue or mousseline, I use the maximun setting and heat all the way till the syrup is 248 degrees. The beauty with induction is that there is no residual heat and there is zero heat going around the sides of the pot. When I turn off the waring, the chocolate, eggs, or syrup, remain at the same temperature. The heat response from induction is far more accurate and faster than gas or electric or even copper cookware!

Doing caramel cage work is also a dream, no longer do I transfer to a heat proof glass for microwave reheating since a few seconds back on the waring remelts the caramel in the same pot.

No more double boiler...

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Hector, I didn't know I could leave the sugar syrup on the induction hob. I will do that the next time. Thanks for that valuable input! I'm loving this incredible invention more and more.

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Hector, can you write a bit more about induction?

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Jill:
If I'm not mistaken, Rose is away, and I thought I'd offer my 2 cents. The mousseline Butter cream is the easiest to work with in the Cake Bible. Most of us who use the book a lot use the mousseline as the "go to" buttercream. You can pipe flowers with it but I find that for really beautifully detailed flowers I just mix up a little butter and confectioner's sugar and use that (Just for the flowers). I do all my borders and other piping with the mousseline...it works beautifully. I do sometimes do my flowers with the mousseline too...but it is not always as stiff as I would like for fine detail. Hope this helps.

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Hello Rose!
I love your book (the cake bible), but I have some questions. I love making cakes at home for family and friends, but I can't seem to find a great buttercream recipe to go along with the homemade cakes. I have looked many times through your book, but I just can't decide which recipe to use. I am looking for a great buttercream, that doesn't taste like a stick of butter, and that I can use to pipe flowers and borders. I would love to not use shortening, or at least not use alot of it, because butter does of course taste better. If you have time I would love a suggestion of what buttercream would work best for me.
thanks so much.

Sincerely,
Jill

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it isn't everyday that amazing discoveries occur, please try this.

when making mousseline, freeze your egg whites overnight and thaw at room temperature for about 10 minutes just until you can cube it with a meat cleaver. place on your mixer bowl, cover with plastic wrap, and let sit at room temperature for about 30 minutes. during this time, the mixer bowl will get very cold and the frozen egg whites will thaw just till resembling large fish scales (still lots of ice).

proceed as usual, by the time the creme of tartar is incorporated, the egg whites will be completely thawed, but still VERY cold.

by the time the hot syrup is added, the ending italian meringue will be cool to the touch, which is the perfect temperature to add the butter!

i've tried MANY methods, and this one is a keeper. nowhere I've read that italian meringue can't be done with ultra cold egg whites!

be sure your egg whites are pasteurized, or that you take all precautions and warnings said of eating raw eggs. in my experience, no-one has gotten sick from my mousseline.

next... the most effective method of making the syrup using induction, and never needing to transfer the syrup to a heat proof glass measure. i've written several hints about my little Waring induction hot plate, i can't live without it, works perfect for heating syrup, also for tempering chocolate.

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Has anyone ever decorated a large wedding cake covered in fondant with piped buttercream icing? I was not sure if this was ever done or if most fondant cakes are decorated with fondant cut outs attached? I am newbie large cake baker. Thanks for your help.

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Hi Claudia, no need to worry over that small of an amount. That is a difference of about 1/4 teaspoon of butter per 12 inch layer.

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Sorry to have not answered you sooner. Actually, I was concerned with the butter. Even though it is a small amount...I was weighing by Grams, and in the 3 tier recipe it says 400 grams and when you figure the butter based on the Rose factor of 7, it comes to 397.25. Now I know this isn't a lot, but Rose is always speaking to the chemistry of the cake. I just want to do what's accurate for the best results. I think these charts just scare me into making a mistake. I'm sure this won't make the difference in the goodness of the cake, however I want to make the cake with the right amounts. Sorry for my obsessiveness. I still really like Rose's concepts. Claudia

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Okay, I saw your forum post and you mentioned egg whites. They both use 10.5 egg whites: 10.5 on page 484 and 7 x 1.5= 10.5 on page 491.

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Hi Caludia,

Could you be more specific about the discrepancies you are concerned about? I checked both of them and they seem almost exactly the same, the only difference I saw was 4 grams, which I think can be attributed to rounding and would be an insignificant difference in this large of recipe. Maybe I am missing something?

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Rose, I'm a relative "newbie" to your book and blog, but I've been baking for many years, waking up for 4 in the morning baking sessions at age 15 at my Aunt Sylvia's house. That's where I learned how to make a Challah and Sponge Cake with cryptic recipes...a little of this...a little more of that. A question for you dear Rose....I am now embarking on my first Wedding Cake for my daughter. Seeing and hearing about the great results from your bloggers, I am using your Cake Bible. I'm a bit confused, however, and haven't received a clear answer from anyone. I was going to use the 3 Tier White Wedding Cake on page 484. When I read and studied about "The Rose Factor", I decided to compare some of my results with the 2-12inch by 2 inch pans in your 3 Tier Recipe. Using the Factor 7 for the 12 inchers, the results didn't jive with the 3 Tier Recipe. When I questioned people on the site about this, surprisingly they said they never used the 3 Tier Recipe, rather the Rose Factor. Can you clarify this for me. I want to feel secure with your recipe, and want to waste as little ingredient as possible. Thanks so much in advance for your time and consideration. Maybe it will help others in the Community.

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Great story! I always look at my finished baked goods and wonder if could have made it any better or sweeter for a recipe for success!

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Rose...I've told the story about you picking me out countless times...it was so funny to me. Hope you're having a good weekend...I know you have so much work to do with the new book, but try to find some "off time". We all need it.

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What a lovely story! From Proust's madeleines to Mike's chocolate cupcakes with orange buttercream, the foods of childhood baked by loved ones will always feed our souls with love.

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Bill,

Thanks so much for sharing this story, it makes me feel warm all over! I bake for children often and I hope they grow up to have similar memories.

Best,
Julie

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Such a touching story - isn't it wonderful how food can bring back such lovely memories!

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i'm reading this in nj on the porch, hurrying to see what's posted bf the promised thunderstorms force me to shut down the internet to protect the modem and computer! tears in my eyes. this is why we all bake or cook--to give pleasure and joy to others. we had dinner this week at thor in the rivington hotel and met the new chef jesi solomon and his brother daniel who is the sommalier. i'll be posting our experience on the blog soon--without photos as i was too enraptured to stop and take them! but my point is that it totally exemplified this principle and it made me remember how much i love my colleagues and exactly why!
ironically, as i read your posting i was half holding my breath thinking maybe you were going to report that someone the mousseline turned to soup! au contraire.
just last night i was reminiscing about the nyu collaborative cuisine flour demo and how i walked into the room, saw you, and knew immediately that it was brace billy!

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That's a great story Bill. Keep baking!!!

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Rose:
I really miss you guys, and I really miss participating in the blog...but this is a very busy time of year for me, orthodontist...kids back to school...AHHHHHHHH! but I wanted to relate a baking incident involving the orange mousseline buttercream. I recently attended a party at my sister's place. I Brought a carrot cake and a couple of dozen cupcakes. Following your suggestion in the cake bible, I freeze my left over frostings, and when I have a bunch of containers, I bake up a bunch of cupcakes. One of the frostings I had left over was the orange mousseline. I had baked chocolate cupcakes and the chocolate with the orange was really yummy. Anyway, there were four left over and my sister put them in a plastic container and put them in the fridge. The next day her husband's friend Mike stopped by and she offered him some cupcakes. He took one look at them: "are those chocolate cupcakes with orange Icing?, he asked. "Yes" said my sister. "are they made with real oranges?" asked Mike. "not sure, but knowing my obsessive brother, I would bet he used real oranges" said my sister (gotta love your family). "My grandmother used to make chocolate cupcakes with orange buttercream" said mike. He took one bite and his eyes welled up. It was as if my sister gave him back his grandmother and his childhood. She gave him the container with the remaining three cupcakes to take home. He carried them to the car as if they were a priceless treasure.
That's why I bake.
Rose, Thank you again for your delicious orange mousseline buttercream recipe. You made a man in New Jersey named Mike very very happy.

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HOT kitchen is NEVER an issue. I like to use a ice filled water jacket or kep my creamed butter down to 60oF (put in the fridge for a few minutes).

NO, mousseline won't get beter by storing in the fridge. You ca use it cool and think it is perfect consistency, but will run when leaving at room temp.

don't discard, use it for filling or to frost the top.

it is runny because sugar wasn't heated to the EXACT temperature.

you coul whip a second batch, if perfect mix with your runny batch and it become 50 percent less runny.

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I have a question regarding Mousseline...I hope that someone sees it before I leave work today at about 2 PM new york time.
Last night I made a batch of mousseline buttercream...something I've done many times. Once, when my kitchen was hot, it did break down into the hopeless puddle that rose cautions us about. So now, when it is hot, I usually do the mousseling in my dining room where there is airconditioning. Anyway, last night, hot kitcen, lazy boy, mousseline buttercream in the kitchen. Anyway, it didn't break down, but it was very soft...I was planning on using it today, so I covered it and put it in the fridge. When it comes to room temp, with the buttercream have enough body to pipe? was it just that it finished product was too warm? Or could the structure of the buttercream have been compromised? Rose, Patricia, Hector, Help! I don't want to put all this butter down the drain, but I don't want to beat in my beautiful curd only to find tha the buttercream won't hold up at room temperature.

thanks

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HA!!! Luca and my DH speak the same language!

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Just something to churn brains. I was trying to figure out how much frosting to use for a 5" tall cake instead of 4" cake, and here is the response of my mathematician, Luca!

(the results are printed on page 513 of TCB, under master chart for frosting quantities).

Hector: "I am doing heavy math right now. Don't know how to calculate how much frosting I need for a 5" tall cake instead of a 4" tall cake. Diameter is
9" on both cakes .....Can you help? What is the factor? Just the frosting to cover the outside of the cake: top and sides.

Luca: "Sure I can help. Image the cake as if it was made of two parts: the top and the sides. The top is just a circle, so the area is r * r * pi, where r is 4.5" if the diameter is 9. The sides is just a rectangle once you open it up. The area of a rectangle is base * height. The base is the circumference of the cake so base = 2 * pi * r, the height is either 4 or 5, depending on which cake you want to make.

So!!!

if the frosting amount is proportional to the area:

frosting1=r*r*pi+2*pi*r*4

frosting2=r*r*pi+2*pi*r*5

so if you were using, say 2 cups of frosting for 4 inch cake, you will need:

2cups*frosting2/frosting1

final_amount:

= 2cups*(r+10)/(r+8)

= 2cups*(4.5+10)/(4.5+8)

= 2*(14.5/12.5)

= 2.32 cups

= 2 cups and 1/3

... "

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Thanks for the feedback. I know that there are other brands out there, but I live in a very small rural town and it's difficult to get anything other than Hershey's, Baker's and the store brand. Since I have limited options, I'm trying to find out how to fix what I have.

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Hi Mommypayne - I know exactly what you mean about the Hershey's Special Dark (which according to the packaging, is dutch-processed). I find it works well in cake batters, but not frostings because of the ashy color.

There are several other brands of Dutch-processed cocoa that are more of a chocolatey brown color: Penzey's, Droste, Green & Black, Lindt, etc.

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From what I remember reading about that a while back, it is already a blend of DP and natural process.

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I had a question regarding cocoa powder. I have always been a huge fan of Hershey's Dutch Process. Then they came out with the Special Dark. The taste is amazing but the color is horrible! It comes out this weird grayish brown. Any ideas on how to fix that? I've tried 1/2 and 1/2 with regular DP cocoa, but it doesn't taste as good.

Also, several months ago, someone posted a problem with getting gritty frosting due to the wrong temp on the syrup. I was disappointed to see that no one mentioned elevation affecting temperature readings! That is so important! Same with temperatures when baking a cake.

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oh Hector- you are again killing us with suspence! and how faithful the custodian is!

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I agree with Hector. I made the pina colada cake from the Cake Bible last week. I used the amount of rum stated in the recipe and then some......I made it on Fri evening and the cake was served on Sat evening. There was no trace of rum at all. I was disappointed BUT it proved that using alcohol in buttercream and cakes does not result in the finished product tasting of alcohol.

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hint: for all of you who dislike the taste of smell of alcohol on the Mousseline, try using Vodka and make your buttercream or frost your cake 2 days in advance.

As stated, alcohol perfects the emulsification on the Mousseline into pure sheet.

Vodka has no flavor, and it evaporates quickly! After 2 days, NO-ONE will ever know that alcohol was used!

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Oh wow.... fantastic Hector! :)

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P.S. Carol is the first one to make a spun off from my Star Copper Topper! Check her out at

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/index_ee.php/forums/viewthread/260/

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As fellow blogger Carol asked, here is the first picture on countdown week: the blank canvas.

Note the wire 'triangles' made out of clothes hangers. These are the dry ice holders to keep the cake refrigerated during assembly.

If there is magic, now I need it, to turn this pile of cardboard and foil into cake!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Katie-sWorldCakeCanvas.html

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As fellow blogger Carol asked, here is the first picture on countdown week: the blank canvas.

Note the wire 'triangles' made out of clothes hangers. These are the dry ice holders to keep the cake refrigerated during assembly.

If there is magic, now I need it, to turn this pile of cardboard and foil into cake!

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Katie-sWorldCakeCanvas.html

P.S. Carol is the first one to make a spun off from my Star Copper Topper! Check her out at http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/index_ee.php/forums/viewthread/260/

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The BIG ones are here, color mix of Teal plus Royal Blue. White edges.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Katie-sWorldCakeOpenOcean.html

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straight line parallel with the bag from tip opening to bag opening. do I make sense?

as stripes I guess.

better explained on the wilton book =)

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Hector, Do you put the streak vertically in the piping back or horizontally as you would if you wanted stripes? Your work is super-fantastic. Roseanna

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..... "dreamy" (as Rose said).....

Valerie, on swiss you don't heat the sugar that high, so it is a less stable buttercream at room temp.

Color is Teal (Wilton's). The mousseline has been flavored with Absolute Vodka, and a drop of Fiori di Sicilia. Vodka is colorless and fiori di sicilia is orange. The white edge on each petal is a technique I've learned from Wilton's: streak the inside of your piping bag with white buttercream and align it with the narrow edge of your rose tip.

The picture colors are indeed accurate. I do prefer to refrigerate the buttercream roses before photographing, so it isn't shiny and glossy.

Yes, fruit acidity as well as alcohol, makes buttercream less greasy on your palate.

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Hector-the roses are the most beautiful shad of blue. Did you custom blend the colour? Now that you mention it I too notice that when I add lemon curd to the buttercream it has a less greasy mouth feel. Rose or anyone - I'm curious why the swiss meringue buttercream method is not as popular on this forum as the mousseline {IMBC} preparation is? Are there advantages to one method over the other?

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Hector - your poor wrist! You should wear a wrist brace next time you take on such a work hazard. I'm telling you... your friends don't realize how much Hector you put into your cakes!

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great Patrincia, and this just makes me think (I haven't post on that), whenever I add the suggested amount of liqueur on the Mousseline Buttercream, the greasy taste and impression of butter is smoothen out, becoming "less greasy." It must be that urban legend says that alcohol dissolves and cuts off the fat!

And similarly, if adding the suggested fruit variation on the Mousseline Buttercream, a similar thing happens.

I just never ever use the Mousseline Buttercream alone. Can it be Ying and Yang?

BTW, my right hand wrist is still swollen from piping 200 large roses (the picture I posted is for the medium ones I did last week). For these large roses, I used my giant JB Prince piping bag, it was so heavy that I had to lean the bag on an inverted pot and push against it with my fist, instead of squeezing with my palm! This just makes me think on getting a foot triggered air pump and connect it to my piping bag...

I am going to copy this post on your Magic Buttercream post, which is full of nice info...

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it can be done but it's tricky. you might want to do it in two parts. i hope they vote for it!

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Good ideas. I thought of fondant but I am not sure how to manage rolling out a sheet to cover a 14 and 18" x 4" tier. That is SO large. I would need to roll out two pieces and then blend them together right? I will give them a sample of fondant covered cake and also a piece covered wtih your white choc cream cheese icing only. Ultimately, they may have to adjust the time they want the cake left out if they want cream cheese. Rose, you are so creative and scientific at the same time. I bet you have fun in the kitchen.

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Good ideas. I thought of fondant but I am not sure how to manage rolling out a sheet to cover a 14 and 18" x 4" tier. That is SO large. I would need to roll out two pieces and then blend them together right? I will give them a sample of fondant covered cake and also a piece covered wtih your white choc cream cheese icing only. Ultimately, they may have to adjust the time they want the cake left out if they want cream cheese. Rose, you are so creative and scientific at the same time. I bet you have fun in the kitchen.

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I'm still getting comments about the ganache covered wedding cake I made over a year ago!

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the new book will have an all dark chocolate wedding cake. is there anything better than ganache?! i used to call it the ultimate nosh which in yiddish is defined more or less as an indulgent snack.

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Any chance you can talk them into Rose's Dark Chocolate Ganache?

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what about rolled fondant. some people think it's like candy and just bc they don't like butter doesn't mean they won't like sugar! suggest it.

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THEY DON'T LIKE MOUSELLINE BC????
Please help, anyone. My client doesn't like mousseline buttercream!! And, yes, I make it properly and in a variety of flavours. It is our usual covering on Rose's cakes. Our business relies on it and people know us for this combo. The comment was "tastes like a mouthful of butter". We have the wedding cake [5 tiers] to do and the in one month. They love the cake [Rose's yellow buttercake, apricot filling] but they did not like buttercream [2 flavours tried] TOO BUTTERY!! They swooned over my chocolate mouselline version. Asked for white chocolate and then said it too was "too buttery" I have tried adding top quality white chocolate in hopes that this would satisfy the bride and groom. To no avail. Now, they are asking for white chocolate cream cheese but I am afraid to use this on the yellow butter cake which will be on display out of cooler for 4hrs.[indoors, next month]. PLEASE, any ideas. This is getting down to the wire and the client is becoming very difficult to satisfy. I am thinking that they may end up asking for the icing sugar and butter shortening type icing [EEK!!] unless I can offer an alternative. Honestly, I can't bear to cover a cake with anything other than one of Rose's recipes. In need of any advice. Valerie.

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I hope for everyone out there with difficulty making Mousseline Buttercream, which many have reported, should be encouraged that it is worth mastering the challenge as there is NO BETTER. The recipe is perfect and has no mistakes, and the effort to learn it right is worth. Heat your sugar to the EXACT temperature indicated in the recipe and you will get perfect results if not heavenly.

Here is one picture of my next 'rose' project. These will fill an ocean, literally, for Katie's World Cake due March 22nd. The ocean I live near have several shades of blue, starting with the coast lines as light blue emerald, gradually turning deeper blue towards the open sea. This picture has the roses for the mid-ocean up to the 200-mile mid ocean (these miles on a 4 feet cake scale would be about about 10 inches or so!). In addition to the different shades that I am piping, I have added white caps, too, this would make sense for the boat people, as Miss Kate is.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Katie-sWorldCake200MileMidOcean.html

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Oh Nushera, austistic children are really gifted. I've not known anyone personally with autistic kids, but I wld guess it is a challenge for the loving parents. Your daughter is such a cutie - I wish both of you all the best!

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Matthew, what you read in that cookbook is correct. Avocado is called butter fruit in India.

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mexicana mama is my fav!

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Bill, point well taken.

by the way, "guacala" is a slang in Peru (and perhaps other Latin American countries), that refers to something not very palatable!

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Hector:
I LOVE the restaurant and I LOVE mexican food in general...just not the guac! LOL

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Bill, Mexico is more than guacamole!

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Nushera, Your cake is beautiful. I feel you must be a beautiful person inside and out to be able to handle the challenge life has given you so well. We have freinds who have autistic children and it isn't an easy road to go down.

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Hector:
I must say...there is a very fine Mexian restaurant in New York called Rosa Mexicano. They are famous for their guacamole that they make table side. I tried it...I was able to get it down...but I have to say, i didn't enjoy.

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Alton Brown made an avocado frosting at Good Eats.

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Bill........ give it one more try! search your peelings and overlook the dark force!

My favorite way to enjoy avocado is sliced, with a hint salt on it, like a salad. Also, stuffed with shrimp or chicken/celery salad YUMMY.

I've had a few Filipino friends who surprised me with the most wonderful smoothie. Put in the blender ice cubes, water, sugar, and avocado. It is surprisingly good, like a great ice cream shake.

Have seen it on sushi on those great looking caterpillar designs.

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Matthew:
I hate avocado. I know, I know...everyone loves it. And although it is very high in calories, it is apparently quite nutritious. I remember one day, when I was a poor student, buzzing into a pizzaria and seeing this wonderful veggy pizza. I ordered a slice, took a bite with great anticipation, only to discover that under the sauce lurked a layer of avocado. I ate it...couldn't afford to let it go to waste...but all I could think was: "Why would anyone do this to an unsuspecting slice of pizza?" Sorry, but there is no accounting for taste. I also can't eat olives, and foie gras...two other things that people seem to love. I just shrug and say "Whatever"

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Nushera, I don't think I have ever met anyone who didn't like avocado, but it sounds like you've found some clever ways to slip it into your family's diet. I remember reading in a cookbook a few years ago that avocado is called "butter fruit" in India. I don't know if that is true, but it sounds like a better name. I've had avocado smoothies at a bubble tea shop; they are delicious, and fun when you add the tapioca pearls.

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Nushera, I use 1 avocado, 2 cups of milk and sugar (to taste) in what I call an "avocado smoothie". Just blend all the ingredient in a blender.

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Green margarine :).

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i know of autistic children who don't even talk to their parents. i have great hope for her especially with you as her mother. and i'm so moved by all the support you all give each other on this blog. it's hard to believe we haven't all met in person (yet)!

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thank you, Rozanne. my daughter is 5 now.
yes, avocado is great in salads, and in sushi too. i haven't tried it in smoothie yet but i must(what do you make it with- yoghurt?).we have very good avocados in Australia almost all the year round. but my husband and daughter never feel like having a bite. somewhere i read this is the only food found in nature that directly reduces cholesterol. so i had to invent alternative ways to make them eat avocado, like spreading the mash on toast. one day my husband said,"is the green margerine organic or something?" well, this is how i got the idea of avocado buttercream.

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Nushera, the cake looks lovely. Your daughter is soooo cute. I know she has autism but what an intelligent child! Isn't she four years?
Avocado....very interesting choice for a buttercream. I have only used it in salads or smoothie which my kids love. I would never have thought of using it in a buttercream though. Where did you get the idea from?

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Bill- my daughter can speak two languages, spell and read many words, and is extraordinarily good for her age at using computer. basically her problem is in socialization. she hardly makes eye-contact or talks with people(other than parents). she didnt say a single word to any of her kinder-mates last year.

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Nushera, I can see the love in your cakes and your most beautiful buttercream rose: your daughter.

Seems like baking with children is a great way of interaction, hope it helps for autism.

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my closest friends have an autistic child. He is now 15 and doing better...although he doesn't use speach hardly at all. I have had several autistic patients in my practice as well (I am a dentist)...I am praying for you and your daughter. Best of luck with the school.

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Hi Bill- Thank you so much. My daughter was offered a place in the regional autistic school just days before her birthday and that was such a relief for us as there were such a long queue. Please pray for her.
Btw- i was assembling the cake in the midnight when she was supposed to be asleep. but she was too excited to have a continuous sleep and came to the kitchen again and again to see the cake(and lick some buttercream). then i had to assemble this quick-cake and we had the celebration at zero hour!
http://www.apona-bd.com/photos/rcache/0dfb39d1fb1cd27cd70746d0082b3a63.jpg

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Nushera:

Brava! The cake is beautiful and your daughter is just adorable. Hope she had a very happy birthday!

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Rose- i am simply amazed once more. yes, that was Sharmila Tagore indeed. i am dying to see your photo in that chiffon(and shoes too). what a lovely combination!

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Patrincia and Elicia- thank you so much for your sweet words.
re the proportions- i did some mathematical calculations before the peanut butter version of Mousseline:). butter is 84% fat. and i chose the "no added salt" type of peanut butter with 51.8% fat. each tabsp measures 14gm(apprx), containing 11.76gm & 7.28gm fat in butter and peanutbutter respectively. so roughly the ratio of substitution should be like this: adding 11x peanut butter for withdrawing 7x butter. but i was a bit confused about some other "solid" ingredients of peanut butter- 29% protein, 15% carbohydrate and dietary fibre. i was not sure about how they would be affecting the texture of the Mousseline and therefore ended up with adding less peanutbutter than what i had taken as per my "fat content calculation." i can tell you it's so easy, just keep watching and add until you get the desired consistency. i planned to measure the leftover peanut butter so that i could work out the actual proportion but i just forgot EVERYTHING as soon as i tasted the Peanutbutter Mousseline. i liked it so very much that i made the choc-pb-mousseline in no time.

Re the Avocado- i took about three-fourth cup of regular MBC and added the mashed buttery flesh of 3/4 avocados(greenish part only) while beating on high with a hand mixer. later i realised that the single drop of green food colour was unnecessary!

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yes--i knew durga the many armed goddess but not that it was synonomous with aparna! what a beautiful name you gave your beautiful daughter.
i wonder if it was sharmila tagore who played the part--probably not as i think she would have been too young.
my friends whose family wedding i attended were bengalis and they still had a farm from which they would get the most wonderful butter sent to delhi. never in my life have i eaten better. i must find those wedding photos--especially the one of me in a sari with a friends size 13 shoe sticking out from under them on my size 6 foot! the sari was lime green chiffonish material with hot pink border.

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Dear Rose- i'm so happy that you saw my post. omg, you saw that Satyajit Ray movie! He was a Bengali(so am i). Aparna is a name of the Hindu Goddess Durga(the one with ten arms). Apona means "my own" or "very intimate" in Sanskrit. the Hindi/Urdu version is "Apna" which you definitely know.

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Ooh Nushera, beautiful roses and a lovely rosebud (your daughter!). The cake is a labour of love indeed! BTW, love the buttercream flavours - do share with us the proportion of peanut butter you used as well as avocado?

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totally agree! i never heard the name apona but it reminds me of the beautiful aparna in the world of apu-- a film i saw in the early 60's that caused me to fall in love with india!

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Oh Nushera - both your cake and your daughter are beautiful! I'm sure she was very pleased with her birthday cake :).

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Nushera, your roses look fantastic, and your mousseline flavors exiting. Thanks for sharing.

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Here is the cake i've recently made for my daughter's birthday.
http://www.apona-bd.com/photos/rcache/ca07a2b5acce13350692f7ebc4d8761d.jpg
i used three variations of Rose's Mousseline: peanut butter mousseline for some roses, chocolate-peanutbutter mousseline for filling and frosting, and the green avocado mousseline for leaves (the basketweave done with white choc-creamcheese bc and milkchoc bc). the piped decorations became softer but kept their shape quite well for more than an hour in 43'c(109.4'F?).

I am simply an enthusiastic home baker but Rose and fellow bloggers here have changed the way i bake, decorate, and last but not the least- get reviewed.
THANK YOU ALL!!!

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Room is too hot! You don't have to start over...just chill the buttercream...it will be fine.

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Thanks Bill! Rose's book had mentioned this recipe is temperature sensitive but I had no idea it is so sensitive. I'm residing in singapore. The room temperature is around 80-83 deg F. I'll give the recipe another try with your recommendations and probably lower the amount of butter at the same time.

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Oh...and by the way...when I make this recipe (and I make it often) I don't really let the butter and cream cheese get really soft...I just take them out of the refigerator about 1/2 hour before I start.

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I live in the US and not sure exactly how hot/cold celcius temperatures are (I guess I could look it up...but I'm lazy)...but if it is too fluid to pipe...and all your measurements are correct...it is too warm. Put the bowl in the refrigerator, stir it every once in a while...it will firm up. Make sure your hands are cool while you pipe (You may have to dip them in cold water periodically). This recipe is very sensitive to temperature...but when it is cool enough...it pipes beautifully. If it is too cool, however, it will be too firm to pipe. Good Luck.

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Urgent help needed. I've made a half-recipe of the white chocolate cream cheese buttercream. The end result is too fluid to pipe. I've allowed the melted white chocolate to cool down and cream cheese and unsalted butter are both softened. The room temperature is at 27 - 28 degrees celsius. May I know what have I done wrong?

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Hi Norry - Rose states that her Mousseline Buttercream recipe from The Cake Bible can stay at room temperature for 2 days. So if your cake doesn't have a filling that needs to be refrigerated, it should be fine for 2 days at room temp.

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patrincia..how many hours buttercream cake can be store at room temperature?a day?
tq..

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Gorgeous pie, Hector!

Thank you so much, Elicia.

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Elicia, pecans are a very U.S.A. thing!

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Oh Nushera - your cake looks lovely and delicious - what a sweet reward for your girl!

Hector - I've seen that doleful look that our dogs give us - their are like little children that don't grow up!!

BTW, have never eaten pecan pie but the pie looks fabulous and all the comments have me salivating already! Hmmm... maybe I will try it!

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thank you all for your inspirational and sweet words.

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Nushera, oh, re: rewarding your daughter for her first days in school. I admire you! I still remember when I was on my first days at school!

We now have day care centers for dogs, once I tried with my dog, and she really acted like a crying human.

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Nushera, your cake with the basket weave piping and succulent border, plus such close up picture, makes me feel you are feeding me a piece. Beautiful.

No, I can't avoid looking at the dirty plate, there is just no-excuse =) as please use strips of paper or foil or plastic wrap to skirt your plate sliding and tucking it under your cake before frosting. Even kitchen towels or plain printer paper will help =)

Yes, the MCB choco color is just like your pic, "pale." Yours looks excellent.

Re: Rose's Pecan Pie, I agree with Patrincia, it is G-O-O-D (perhaps worth omitting one "O"). Here are my pics of the pie and of all the Thanksgiving meal. Click on the link below but wait a few seconds until the page loads and your browser jumps right to my posting. You can read something nice I wrote in my opinion regarding the pie.

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2006/11/great_tip_for_your_thanksgivin.html#comment-75145

Immediately under the same posting, there is another link with the complete Thanksgiving meal.

I really hope you enjoy my pictures, I am telling everyone, I won't assemble this compl-eat menu again, it is one of those once-in-a-lifetime joys, and I plan to keep it that way!

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Nushera,
I enjoyed seeing your cakes. I especially like the one with the shell border.

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Hi Rebecca - the recipes for Rose's cakes do vary in volume, as well as the amount of rise each batter will yield.

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Had just finished baking the Rose's buttermilk country cake. I halved the recipe and bake it as cupcakes. Noticed for this recipe, I can only fill up 9 cups using a #20 ice-cream scoop. I recall both the chocolate fudge & Downy Yellow yield much more. Did I get d recipe wrong?

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Rebecca - I don't add any alcohol to the mousseline, opting for extra vanilla instead. Obviously the flavor of the mousseline will be enhanced by adding alcohol, but even though I choose to omit it, people still say it's the best darn frosting they ever tasted!

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Hi guys - I'm back from our holiday vacation, can I jump in the conversation?

Rebecca - yes you can halve the mousseline recipe, but you might be sorry afterwards because it's so darn yummy! Leftovers freeze very well by the way!

Nushera - the color of the chocolate mousseline using semisweet or bittersweet chocolate is exactly like you photo. I was surprised by the light color initially, but the taste was very nice. Bill posted a recipe for a chocolatier version a while back... I've been meaning to try it but haven't yet.

All - Rose's pecan pie recipe is OUT OF THIS WORLD!!!

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Hi Hector- how are you? how about your holidays(which thread have you posted in)?

re the chocolate mousseline- how does it look like? i mean the colour... i made it once and liked the taste and texture very much but it looked so pale compared to other choc-specials by Rose. did i pick the wrong type of chocolate("duo" from cadburry- nearly 50-50 combination of dark and milk choc) or is it normal to get a pale shade? here is a pic(it looks a bit darker in photo)- please dont look at the "dirty" plate, this was a piping-practice:) on a reward-cake on my daughter's first tearless day at kinder.
http://www.apona-bd.com/photos/rcache/ba326342905a3e97d4922abb42c6114b.jpg

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Hi Rebecca- yes, i halved the MBC recipe. the reason is i make smaller cakes (no larger than 9") and don't have large mixing bowls etc.

Matthew- ditto, i am also a big fan of the milk choc buttercream. may i nervously show this one:
http://www.apona-bd.com/photos/rcache/94104ba23a6d1adb6091fbbca0516e4e.jpg

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Rebecca, good thinking. In Italy, France, etc, there is nothing wrong to add liquor to desserts, plus there is no minimum drinking age there that I know of. Parents DO fee wine to their children from very early age as part of every day's diet.

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Hector: On second thought, I think I'll use a chocolate ganache recipe I've been using or the milk chocolate buttercream as suggested by Matthew. The cupcakes are meant for my nephew's birthday.

Have anyone tried halving the mousseline buttercream? Am thinking of frosting half of the cupcakes using chocolate ganache and the rest with mousseline buttercream.

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But I don't know if the liquor amount is within the legal age limits, I hope so!

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A big thank you to Bill, Hector and Matthew!

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I agree with Hector that liquer is an important part of this recipe, although it still tastes nice without it, with it it is even better. I've used vodka, rum, kahlua, and chambord with chocolate and they all worked well. I have to say that my favorite chocolate buttercream is the "Milk Chocolate Buttercream" followed by "Classic Egg White Chocolate Buttercream," but I love ganache most of all.

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Rebecca, I always add the liquer to the mousseline because I find it becaomes more silky and smooth. If you are doing the chocolate variation, you can add a liquer matching chocolate, like frangelico (hazelnut), kahlua (coffee), amaretto (almond), or plain vodka which does not impart any flavor. My favorite for chocolate is frangelico, the hazelnut taste blends well with chocolate, not overpowering but enhancing the taste of chocolate.

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Rebecca:
you add the melted chocolate after you add the butter. As far as the liquer...that's up to you. I don't usually add it. Good luck!

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Sorry, have made a typo error in the above post. I meant to ask at which point do I add the melted chocolate, before the addition of butter or after it? TIA :)

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Oops....I've made typo error in the previous message. I mean to type '...at which point do I add the melted chocolate, before the addition of butter or after it?'

Sorry for the error.

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Hi Rose. I've baked both the Downy Yellow Butter Cake and Chocolate Fudge Cake and received rave reviews for them. Thank you so much!

Would like to know for the chocolate variation of the mousseline buttercream, do I still add the liquer? And at which point do I add the melted butter, before the addition of butter or after it?

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Hi Rose. I've baked both the Downy Yellow Butter Cake and Chocolate Fudge Cake and received rave reviews for them. Thank you so much!

Would like to know for the chocolate variation of the mousseline buttercream, do I still add the liquer? And at which point do I add the melted butter, before the addition of butter or after it?

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I have baked 4 christmas cakes,and they look great(smell good also)with almond & royal icing to do,will if I do that now,make the color come from rich cake through to the icing anhow should I store the cakes.???love your site thanks
worried with aussie heat...............

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Hi Sarah - I've read numerous reports that Wilton's ready to use rolled fondant tastes absolutely terrible. There are better tasting brands available from specialty cake stores and/or bakeries.

Rose has a very good fondant recipe in The Cake Bible, but the new Crisco formula has created many problems for bakers. Apparently Spectrum Organic Shortening is an acceptable substitution.

Whipped cream would not be a good idea under fondant - it just wouldn't hold up. Buttercream, light colored jam, or piping gel are all acceptable to use under fondant (be sure they are thin coats).

Both fondant and gumpaste are edible, but most people don't wish to eat decorations made with gumpaste - it dries extremely hard.

You can try flowers made from your fondant - just be sure to let them dry thoroughly so they don't lose their shape when you place them on your cake.

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Hello Rose! I am learning how to bake and I am wondering if I can use ready to use rolled fondant and a little bit of gum paste to make beautiful flowers and can actually eat it? And do I really have to use butter cream under my fondant? or can I use whipped cream instead? Thank you for your help.

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regarding egg equivalencies, on page 472 of the first edition of the cake bible it states: "In a layer cake recipe 1 egg can be replaced by 2 yolks or 1 1/2 whites." please read the rest as the results of these substitutions are interesting!

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Gaela, don't feel discouraged, after trying a few recipes from The Cake Bible, you will get a good feel of Rose's techniques, and soon ANY recipe you try written by Rose will come out flawlessly.

It has happen to me after near 20 years of it. Rose's writing style is very consistent, that you can pick up any of her books and feel assured the recipe will turn well.

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Hi Gaela - Rose has reported that many people have told her they've successfully used the 2-stage method to mix other cake recipes.

No problem on the late night help - my pleasure (I'm a bit of a night owl anyway).

I don't know why you were having trouble with the white velvet recipe... it's such a good cake (maybe it was the mixer after all?).

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HI Patrincia- Just to update you on my finished cake. I never could get the white velvet to turn out right, so will have to work on that. I ended up using a recipe from an old Better Homes and Gardens, and replacing the buttermilk with yogurt. It rose beautifully and tasted great. The coffee buttercream lost its bitterness after sitting for a couple of hours. For future reference, is it possible to adapt any cake recipe to mix using the 2 stage method? Thanks for all your late night support. It was very helpful.

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Hi Gaela - Double acting simply means the baking powder reacts twice... the first when it's mixed with the wet ingredients (releases gas bubbles), and the second when it's exposed to the heat of the oven (releases more gas bubbles).

Yes, too much baking powder will result in a sunken center. So will a cold oven and an undermixed batter (page 476). Since you said your oven runs hot, I think the problem was most likely your baking powder (although undermixing is very possible if you're using a hand mixer).

Rose states on page 475 that the most critical factor to successfully baking a cake is the oven temperature. I would suggest testing the temp of your oven by placing your thermometer in the center of the center rack (after the oven has been preheated for 15-20 minutes). Once you do that, you can adjust the temp if needed.

I'll be working at my desk for a couple more hours tonight. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any additional questions. (we like to help each other out) :)

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Hi Gaela - I don't know what brand of instant espresso coffee you have. The one I use is Medaglia d'Oro Instant Espresso Powder (it has great coffee flavor, without a bitter taste and it's the same brand suggested in the cake bible).

I don't know of any way to remove the bitter taste you described, but I suppose diluting it with additional butercream would help quite a bit. If you don't want to add coffee liquer, you could always try some strongly brewed, good tasting coffee (cooled to room temp).

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Patrincia- sorry- I hit the post button an extra time. Yes, I used the 2 stage method to mix the cake and it was baked in the center of the oven. The baking powder tests fresh. It is rumford aluminum free. It doesn't say if it is double acting. Does that make a difference? I may have had too much bp for the test cake since I just mixed the recipe from the book that was meant for 2 9" pans and put it in one 10" pan with some left over. Does that make a difference? The bake time was on the longer end, and it was already pulling away from the sides when I took it out. My oven temp does run high, so I have a thermometer in it. The thermometer is near the oven door, so when it reads 350, maybe the oven farther inside is actually higher. I never realized there was this much to know. I prefer baking chocolate cakes, as they seem to always come out fine! Anyway, thanks for the help again. any pointers would be greatly appreciated. I have to bake Sun AM for a party Mon PM.

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Hi Patrincia- thanks for the info. I have a baking core which I could use, but I guess I won't bother. I'm curious,though, about the flower nail. I don't quite understand how it would work. My handheld mixer is not on a stand. It's literally a hand mixer. I've become very adept at mixing with one hand and adding ingredients with the other. I'm sure that my test cake wasn't underbaked. I cut into it all the way to the center, and if anything it may have been a little dry. Any ideas?

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Patrincia: back a couple of postings...when you told me about making the coffee mousseline and you said espresso powder, did you mean instant espresso coffee? That's what I used and it seems a little bitter. Any way to salvage it? Should I just mix in more buttercream? Or if I was mistaken, what should I have used? thanks once again.

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I forgot to mention the flower nail... it is placed up-side-down in the center of the pan (plunk it right down into the batter). The metal post of the flower nail will heat up in the oven and help bake the cake from the center out. Sounds like you definitely don't need to use one.

Back to your test cake.... was your bake time within the range given by Rose in the recipe? If so, was it on the shorter or longer side of the time range? If it was on the shorter side of the range, your oven temp might be running higher than normal, in which case I would lower the temp to 325.

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(oops, I wrote baking soda in the post above)

Okay, if your cake was over baked, and still fell in the center, there is a problem it's internal structure. Let me ask you a few questions...

Hmmmm - are you using the 2 stage method to mix this batter?

Did you bake the test cake in the center of the oven?

Is your baking powder fresh/active? (test by mixing a little with water and see if it bubbles)

Are you sure you measured the correct baking powder for the test cake?

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Hi Patrincia- thanks for the info. I have a baking core which I could use, but I guess I won't bother. I'm curious,though, about the flower nail. I don't quite understand how it would work. My handheld mixer is not on a stand. It's literally a hand mixer. I've become very adept at mixing with one hand and adding ingredients with the other. I'm sure that my test cake wasn't underbaked. I cut into it all the way to the center, and if anything it may have been a little dry. Any ideas?

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Hi Gaela - I just made this recipe this morning (2 6" and 2 9" layers).

I wouldn't syrup this cake (I think it would get mushy). If you will be coating with buttercream right away, it will be fine. If you will be coating w/buttercream tomorrow, just wrap the layers extremely well with plastic wrap.

You don't need a baking core for a 10" layer, but you could use an upside down flower nail if you want to (I wouldn't bother). Are you using baking strips? I hightly recommend them.

Your Rose Factor baking soda calculations are correct :).

No need to lower the temp to 325 (unless you know your oven runs hot). I baked all 4 of my layers all together, at the same time, at 350 and had no trouble (obviously the smaller layers will be done before the others).

If your test cake sank in the center, it was probably under baked. The great thing about this cake recipe is this... even when the surface of the cake starts to look a little dark, the interior is still moist and delicious!

I think I know which Sunbeam mixer you have... is it like a handheld mixer on a stand? If so, follow the handheld mixer directions in the cake bible (basically, the kitchenaid's Med speed is like a handheld mixer's High speed).

I'll check back a few times tonight if you have any other questions. I'm sure you will be very happy with your finished cake!

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Forgot to ask re: syrup. Since I will be baking more than 24 hrs advance of serving, I'd like to moisten with syrup, but I can't use any liqueur. Can I just leave it out? Or is there a substitute? Thanks once again.

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Hello- Thanks for all the responses. The cake I've decided on is the white velvet, and I will measure the egg whites. I'm making 2 10" layers and 2 6" layers. Could someone relieve my anxiety and confirm that I figured out the baking powder correctly for the 10". It should be rose factor 5, so about 6 2/3 tsp. Also, do you all consider a 10" round pan to be a "large" pan, thus needing the core in the center to help distribute the heat? And should I reduce the heat to 325? I thought I had read that somewhere, but on page 490 it still says to bake the large layers at 350. I do not have a stand mixer. I use an old sunbeam heavy duty hand mixer. I don't know how to figure out if I am overmixing or undermixing, since all the recipes seem to use a stand mixer. (My test cake this AM had a small dip in the center and seemed slightly heavy, though with good flavor. I hadn't adjusted the baking powder, though.) Thank you thank you thank you everyone.

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Page 442 lists one large egg yolk as 3 1/2 teaspoons, .65 ounces, or 18.6 grams.

One large egg white - 2 tablespoons, 1.05 ounces, or 30 grams.

one whole egg (without shell) - 3 tablespoons plus 1/2 teaspoon, 1.75 ounces, or 50 grams.

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Not sure what is the correct figure, but be aware that today, yolks are coming much smaller than in the past! Measure by weight would be more accurate.

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Gaela - Oh wow... yes, that must be something that was corrected after the first printing (so nice that you have a first edition!).

Rose does have a list of corrections for all her books. You can find it at the top of this tread - look for Book Errata in the red section under categories.

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Patricia- I just rechecked my copy of the book which is a 1988 1st edition. It does say each egg yolk = 1 1/2 egg whites. Maybe a print error that has since been corrected. Thanks to everyone for the correspondence. It's great to be able to ask questions and have them answered by professionals.

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Gaela:
I know that this is a little after the fact (two days ago) but one of the things I do is dissolve 1 tablespoon of espresso powder (instant) in 2 tablespoons of Amaretto. It takes a minute or two of mixing to get it to dissolve...but when you add it to the buttercream....Yum!

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Gaela - The recipe states that each TWO egg yolks are replaced by 1 1/2 whites, so 6 yolks would equal 4 1/2 whites.

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time for stronger glasses!!!

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I've been comparing the recipe for the all occasion yellow butter cake pg 39 with the white velvet butter cake pg 46-7. In "understanding" the white velvet cake it says that it is identical to the yellow except that each egg yolk is replaced by 1 1/2 egg whites. If that were the case, the 4 1/2 whites would match with 3 yolks, not the 6 that are in the recipe. Am I reading it wrong? What is the correct number of eggs? Thanks for the help.

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Cynthia - the mousseline will hold up to the temp you stated. Any clear liquer would do, but you don't have to use liquer if you don't want to.

The color of the mousseline isn't a stark snow white, but it is white.

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Anyone...
If I were to use the mousseline buttercream for a wedding cake, what clear liquer should I use instead of Grand Marnier? The buttercream must be white and able to withstand warm temps.(82-85 degrees)

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Gaela, use espresso powder (dissolved) and also Kahlua!

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Gaela,
I agree with Rose's advice about buttercream pairings with the white velvet cake. Any combination doesn't taste bad, of course, but in my experience a stronger buttercream makes this cake taste rather plain and flat--it can overwhelm this cake easily. I would try a test a Patrincia as suggests and see what you think.

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Patrincia,
The carrot cake will only be on the bottom tier. The two other layers are white butter cake. It is going to be a stacked cake so I am thinking the straw technique is preferred.(there is going to be very limited decorations on the cake.)We are planning to use the silk meringue buttercream without the praline paste. You are right, this is our first one so all your good advice is apreciated.

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Hi Cynthia - good questions. Some experienced wedding cake makers would consider assembling ahead of time, but I think more of them would not. I prefer to assemble on site because there is much less chance of that cake being damaged during transportation. I've heard of too many stories of the cake tipping over in the back of the car, or the cake being dropped because it was too heavy to carry, etc. If you do assemble on site, be sure to allow plenty of time for the finishing touches, which can take hours depending on the design. (I'm assuming you've never done this before, but I don't see your original post on this thread, so please forgive me if I'm wrong)

re the internal supports - carrot cakes are pretty heavy... will your tiers be stacked together, or separated by the pillars? (btw, separated by pillars would definitely need to be assembled on site)

Your buttercream will most definitely get soft. Which buttercream were you planning on using?

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Gaela - I think you'll be fine if you use the chocolate just for the filling (a thin layer perhaps), rather than for the filling AND frosting. The coffee buttercream is very delicate in flavor, so you should be just fine using it for the frosting.

Do you have time to do a small practice tier to see how you like the flavor combination? Then you can adjust if needed, but you probably won't need to.

FYI - this is the same formula listed on page 491 of the wedding cake section, which will enable you to make anywhere from 6" to 18" layers.

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Thanks for the advice on the carrot cake. The wedding is outdoors and about a 25 mile drive. I think the cake should be assembled there but my partner wants to assemble it before. What's the best approach? Also , is it best to use straws for support versus the plastic pillars? It is suposed to be 86 degrees outside so I am concerned about the buttercream getting soft.

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Thanks so much for answering so promptly. This is my first time posting a question since I only recently found this site. Now another question. The client wants a white cake, chocolate filling, coffee icing. In The Cake Bible, it is recommended NOT to use chocolate with the white velvet butter cake. Is there a better recipe? or should I just go ahead and do it? Thanks once again.

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Oh yes Gaela - one of my favorite versions! Dissolve 1 Tablespoon of espresso powder in 2 Tablespoons of boiling water, cool, and add to 2 cups of the mousseline buttercream (whip it in with a whisk). Or you could use Kahlua.

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Hello- I need a coffe icing for a client and the mousseline is my favorite one to use. Does anyone know if I can flavor it with coffee, and if so...how do I do it. Thanks for any help.

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Now I have to go out and buy a new kitchen toy :).

Which model do you have Hector?

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Good question, I find non-contact thermometers (infrared) indispensable for all the jobs where I don't want to touch the food and where finding the inside temperature is not critical or workable.

For example, often I don't want to pinch my steak or any meats in fact when grilling or baking. Or raw meats, dairy, etc. To measure the ambient temperature of my kitchen. To measure the temperature of my cast iron or baking stone when preheating the oven. To measure the temperature of my under counter halogen lights and see how much heat that is adding to whatever I place under. To measure the temperature of wine bottles, wine glasses, marble stones for pastry rolling.

You just can't live without both: contact and non-contact, and today these come affordable!

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Yes, Tri-ply!

re the infrared thermometers... is there a time when they would be preferred over traditional thermometers in baking?

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And if it is try-ply pan, better! Mine's is not non-stick.

re infrared, no wonder my infrared register a lower temperature than my dip in pro-tip. Now, I know I am not crazy nor my thermometers.

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I use a good quality, heavy, stainless pan and get excellent results.

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This is really the only BC I ever use. I bake by instinct and need specifac directions. Once I tried making it w/out using a non stick pan and it was a disaster. So with Rose's recipes,trust her, they are supposed to be followed as written.

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Dori - I'm sure your daughter will have sucess with the next batch... she is going to love the flavor and texture of the finished buttercream! (and wait until you hear all the comments from the wedding guests!).

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that's wonderful!!!

re infrared: it will only tell you the surface temp so in fact it will be much higher.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this--and so quickly, too! My daughter has an infrared thermometer, which I believe should be accurate (no?), and I will ask her if she used it and suggest that she do so for the next batch if she hasn't. She also made one of the cakes from the Cake Bible, and it turned out absolutely perfect. :-D She's 17, loves to bake, and is making a "wedding" cake for our cousin's church group, so the first one was for practice. She's thinking of going to pastry school.

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Dori, YES, the temperature in the recipe is correct and indeed vital to be accurate. The gritty sugar has happened to me too many times until I got an accurate thermometer which now you can get one for a lot less money than before. Great reason to have one.

Do try again, as this buttercream IS the best.

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the temperature is right there in the recipe and it's essential to use an accurate thermometer.

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HELP!! My daughter made the mousseline buttercream, and it tastes great but is GRITTY--the sugar syrup hardened when she added it to the meringue. Is there a particular temperature the sugar syrup needs to be? Do you have any tips for how she could avoid this in the next batch?

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Cate - is the glaze made specifically for this purpose?

The glazes that I've seen here in the US are used to give a glossy appearance to the sugar or gumpaste. I'm not sure if they would preven sugar/moisture transfer.

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Thanks for your kind feedback everyone.

Patrincia: yes, what happens is that the buttercream makes the candy decorations moist and whilst bleeding is not too noticeable on the buttercream base layer itself (possibly as most decorations I have used are pastel colours?) the decorations look like all the colour has been sucked out of them, some even go translucent and start to break down (if I left them longer I probably would get a "blob of goo" left though come to think of it!!! :)
I suspect it will be the moisture and humidity having an effect as you say.

The more I think about it, chemically, the fats in the buttercream are probably all excited about the tasty sugar in the candy too so are helping themselves to it and helping break it down!

Great idea with the disc of fondant, I will definitely try this.

Elicia: Yes I think I might also try the "Flower and Leaf Glaze" my baking supplier sells which apparently needs to be painted on to the back of each decoration and may form the barrier to stop the colour leeching- very time consuming and I was hoping to avoid this but maybe I can cheat and put it in a little atomiser and spray it on...hmmmm.... this has got the cogs turning now...I'll have a go and report back!

Sorry I've just realised how long my post is! Thanks again all for bearing with me and any further ideas or experiment suggestions are very welcome!!

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I know Sylvia and I think Rose too says to make sure if you do put sugar dough items (roses, detail) onto your cake, the cake must be boxed completely/tight prior to refrigeration. Otherwise the colors will run.

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Patrincia, I just asked the same question on another thread! Maybe to think of a way to moisture-proof the back of the fondant decorations - maybe shortening? Seems like the only option although it is tedious.

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Welcome Cate - thank you for your kind words. I've never been to Australia, but I hear it's absolutely wonderful!

I just want to make sure I understand your question. You put sugarpaste flowers onto the buttercream, store them overnight, and the flowers bleed onto the buttercream or visa/versa?

I would suggest you avoid placing sugarpaste on the buttercream until the last possible moment. The sugarpaste is made mostly of sugar, which readily absorbs moisture from any and every thing around it (the buttercream, moisture in the air, condensation on the cupcakes, etc). I learned that lesson early on when I placed little candies onto a cake, only to find little puddles of colored goo the next day. At first I thought one of the kids might have done something to them, but after a little research I realized I should have waited longer before I placed the candies on the cake.

The only other suggestion I can think of is to cover the buttercream with a disk of fondant and then place your sugarpaste flowers onto that (using royal icing as glue).

Let me see if I can come up with any other tips.

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Eeek... sorry to missed a fairly important word in that last post!!! I meant to type Sugarpaste/Hard candy DECORATIONS!! Sorry!!

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Hello Rose (and fellow Rose-devotees),
I'm a long time lurker first time poster from Australia. First of all Patrincia, what a lovely cake - the fresh flowers draped so beautifully!
I need some advice please- I often bake and decorate cupcakes for fundraisers but am having problems with buttercream 'leeching' colour and 'wetting' store bought hard sugarpaste/candy cake overnight, leaving them dull. I know I could paint the back of each decoration with floral glaze but SOOO time consuming. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Best wishes all.

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An easy converter is Google's calculator, which understands many unit conversions. On the google page, or a google search bar, for example, type

17 oz in g

hit return, and you'll get

17 ounces = 481.941893 grams and a link to the calculator's help page.

23.4 (miles / gal) = 9.94836271 km / l
456 US cups = 0.919354839 barrels

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Elizabeth, according to the FDA, the temperature that the egg whites reach on the Mousseline Buttercream is not hot enough to kill salmonella. There has been a comment by Rose about this, with possible alternatives (like using pasteurized eggs, or egg product).

HOWEVER, I have extensively used Mousseline Buttercream as done on Cake Bible (using regular eggs), and no-one has gotten sick. I have stored, handled, froze, thawed, and displayed it for very extensive periods of time.

Quickly, YES, at 90 degrees, the Mousseline Buttercream will hold. Perhaps even at 95 degrees. Please be sure you don't have any direct sun hitting it.

Now, don't quote me on this, as I am not an FDA licensed food safety officer, but this is what I do to minimize any chance of getting sick when handling eggs:

1- Wash your hands before and after touching the eggs.
2- Take from your refrigerator only as many eggs as you would need. You want to keep your extra eggs constantly refrigerated as much as possible.
3- When cracking and separating the eggs, do not touch anything else.
4- Also, try not to touch the egg whites or yolks with your fingers. The practice of scraping the last trace of eggs from the shell, I consider it as a chance to introduce salmonella or other bacteria. These bad guys grow mostly on the outside shell of the egg, so it would be on your fingers. When scoping pieces of shells that may have felt into your bowl, do so with a clean spoon (not with your fingers). It would be good practice to wash your eggs before cracking them, in cold running water and a drop of antibacterial dishwashing soap.
5- When you are done cracking eggs, wash your hands again.
6- Keep any uncooked egg product, refrigerated, as much as possible. All utensils that has touched egg or batter (with eggs) should be washed and not let sit on the counter or utensil crock. I treat any thing that has touched egg as a possible source of salmonella. This includes bowls, mixer beaters, spatulas, countertops, etc. When you wipe, use always a new piece of paper towel, don’t use reusable dish cloths to wipe countertops
7- Once you have the mousseline buttercream, I always count how many hours it has accumulated of room temperature. Minimize these hours as much as possible, for the longest shelf life with the lowest bacterial count. For example, when working with the buttercream, leave at room temperature only as much as you would use. Refrigerate your cake when done and whenever possible (in between steps for example). Keep refrigerated until the party day. Cake Bible says that mousseline buttercream can be left at room temperature for 2 days. I use this as a reference of how many “total” hours it has been accumulating of room temperature, and when that number is more than 48 hours, that is when I consider my buttercream unsafe. Besides those hours, the buttercream sits refrigerated or frozen for many many hours!

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Hi! I'm new to this forum (and to baking really) but it is very helpful! I have used the Mousseline Buttercream recipe a few times and it's definitely the best tasting buttercream I've found. I'd like to use it to frost cupcakes for an outdoor event 3-7pm in potentially quite warm weather (90 degrees). I've seen in the threads that this type holds up the best to warm weather, but even this warm? Will it be okay to sit out? I can only imagine how bad it would be to make everyone sick! Thank you.

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Hi Matthew - I'm thinking maybe the sinking tops in the above excerpt were due to unbaking since she mentioned the tops fell after she took them out of the oven.

Did you read what Roses said in the Rounded vs Flat thread about the cupcakes rising more if the batter is allowed to sit out for a while before baking? It reminded me of by childhood when I would make the Jiffy brand corn muffins... the instructions said the muffins would rise higher if allowed to sit for 10 minutes before baking (I think it was 10). Anyway, pretty interesting!

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Thanks for bringing up those threads Patrincia. I've been using the instructions on page 164 of the CB which states to add the additional baking powder, and I never encountered the sinking problem described above. I also bake them sometimes just using leftover batter, and that works fine too.

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Elise, please read the thread entitled "Rounded vs Flat Cake Layers". Rose talks about this recipe being used for cupcakes there too...

"normally the smaller the cake the higher the proportion of leavening to flour but the shape of cupcakes being larger on top than bottom seems to contradict this!"
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | September 28, 2006 9:29 PM

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Actually, Rose has simple stated to bake leftover batter into cupcakes ("if you prefer, you can simply make any amount of batter and fill the pans no less than half full and no more than 2/3 full and use the excess batter if there is any to make cupcakes").

But here is an exchange between Rose and Kim that I found concerning this exact recipe being used for cupcakes:

"I've been baking cupcakes using your All Occasion Downy Golden cake recipe. The texture is incredible - soft, light, fluffy and melt-in-your-mouth. The only problem is that the cakes rise beautifully in the oven - but then about 5 minutes after I take them out they begin to sink in the middle. What do you think could be the problem? I'd love for them to be just slightly rounded on top, for the sake of presentation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!"
Posted by: Kim | August 3, 2006 4:23 PM

"thank you kim! please tell me EXACTLY what kind of flour you are using."
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 4, 2006 10:09 AM

"Hello Rose, I am using Softasilk cake flour, and I measure it by weight."
Posted by: Kim | August 4, 2006 12:20 PM

"thanks kim! that's exactly what i needed to know so it has to be that your measuring spoons are slightly larger. i bet that cutting back the baking powder by 1/4 teaspoon will do the trick. you might even try 1/2 teaspoon if you want slightly rounded rather than flat. i like flat if i'm stacking one on top of the other but rounded if served individually. do tell me how it works for you--i'm 99.9% sure that since you're weighing the major ingredients that's the problem."
Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | August 4, 2006 2:22 PM

"Hello again Rose! Thanks so much for your help! I baked another batch of cupcakes using less baking powder, which did help the volume. I think, though, that my main problem was that I was underbaking them too! (how embarrassing!) My oven runs a bit hot, so they were getting brown on top before they were really done in the middle. I tried baking them at a slightly lower temperature, for a longer time, and I'm very happy with the results! If it weren't for you and the Cake Bible, I would never have thought to fiddle with the oven temperature, and I certainly never would have guessed about the baking powder! Thanks so much for all you do! :)"
Posted by: Kim | August 11, 2006 3:24 PM

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Elise,
If you plan to make a separate batch for the cupcakes, I would add an extra 1/2 teaspoon of baking powder. As general rule, the smaller the cake, the more leavening you need.

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Yep, honestly I think halving the buttercream recipe would be fine, but halving cake recipes can sometimes throw the levening amounts off. Since you're pressed for time, I would just stick with full batch sizes (less chance of making a mathematical errors too).

If your mixer can handle the volume, you can do a double batch of the buttercream. Buttercream can be frozen for up to 8 months in a well sealed container. Thawed buttercream has to be re-whipped to restore it's consistancy once it's come to room temperature again.

I would only make one batch of cake batter at a time (you will have better results if you bake the cake layers and cupcakes serarately too). You can freeze the leftover cupcakes for a month or two if you store them in an airtight container.

Hope that helps! PS - if you checked the box that says, "let me know if someone adds a comment", then the thread will automatically send you an email.

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Patrincia, got your email also, thanks. You think I should just double each then?

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Sure Elise, but why don't you just make a full batch of cupcakes and store the leftovers in the freezer? Mousseline freezes beautifully too.

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EMERGENCY!!

Is anyone out there? If so, please let me know if it is OK to make one and a half recipes with Mousseline and Downy Butter Cake. The extra halves are for cupcakes I need this for tonight...classic of me to wait to the last minute to inquire.

Elise

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but it's so easy simply to weigh in ounces and then click to grams and there's the conversion for future use!

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Rose, can you influence the people at myweight to add this feature into a scale? Or is it time for us to get an iphone that does these things and much more, including blogging!

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i have a terrific calculator that does this: SPER SCIENTIFIC 830009, ON THE BACK IT SAYS SE KAPS iNSTRUMENTS, INC. MODEL: SK-6250
i got it from markson labs--800-528-5114

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Oh, it just comes as a widget in my iMac!

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Hector - can you share the program? If so, can you email it to me?

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Whenever I find a recipe in oz or lb, I convert it to grams! Much easier and accurate to measure. I have a little program in my computer that converts oz/lb easilly to grams. Whenever I find a recipe in cups/tsp/tb, without weights, I just throw away that recipe!

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I just found out my Salter scale has a switch on the bottom that changes the reading from pounds:ounces to grams. I used the newly found gram feature today and I love it! My weighed ingredients will now be that much more precise. I love weighing - it's sooooo much easier than measuring with cups and spoons.

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Great tip Hector! Did you still re-whip to restore the buttercreams consistency?

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Not sure if it was posted already, or ever experimented. I have experienced that you can bring your refrigerated Mousseline Buttercream quickly to room temperature by placing it on the microwave for 20 seconds, and then 10 seconds more at a time until soften. I no longer have to wait a couple of hours or so for the refrigerated buttercream to soften at room temperature, so I can start using it!

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Reeni - did you know you appear in a FoodTV commercial?

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thanks patrincia but i'm not back--i'm up to my eyeballs in cooking and baking for daddy! but every night i check to make sure no one is having an emergency that no one else has dealt with and thanks to you and several others to whom i am very grateful (as i'm sure the questioners are too) i haven't needed to respond. this really is the best community of bakers going and the generosity and intelligence with which you've all chimed in is awe inspiring plus it enables me to post more stories and recipes!

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Thank you, Matthew. In my rush, I didn't see how hot the syrup would be and that it could be stored at room temp for 2 days. Now, our cake for a county fair (not a Food Network cake competition like my obsessional thinking is making it sound), will be frosted by 8 a.m., entered by 9, and on display (after taste test and judging) until auction at 7 p.m. We're not piping or anything. But I am wondering about the degree of sponginess over that period of time. I am intrigued by the mousseline but worry that if the weather is swampy, it mayn't last.

I looked up frostings in the Way to Cook (after noting Hector's entry about the other book. JC brings syrup in her Italian meringue to soft ball stage and meringue can then be morphed into a buttercream. I wonder how that changes things.

Thanks again.

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That is what I suspected regarding the BEST texture for the Mousseline Buttercream! After all it is said in the BIBLE!

I am going to start my 15.3 cup Mousseline Buttercream, right now! The chart is below (measurements on the last row):

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/PaddlersWYC/15-cup-mousseline.html

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Hector--the technique you describe is a Swiss meringue. You are right that it is not as stable as the Italian meringue that Rose uses. I have seen it made for use in a buttercream and to it looked to me like it takes just as long, if not longer, than the Italian version.

Elise--if you make Mousseline, the eggs will be sufficiently cooked I believe, so there is no need to consider powder.

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Gasp - are you back Rose??? We've missed you terribly!

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Yes - that is the method I use all the time. Cook the egg whites and sugar. Allow to cool (I sometimes make this mixture ahead and refrigerate overnight or even a few days(or even freeze for later use). Whip into a meringue and add the butter ( I add the butter a little cold - seems to work better) - I add the flavorings last. Works beautifully! Good luck!

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believe me--if there were an easier method to get the same texture i would have done it!

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I've recently read in the book Baking with Julia (PBS), a buttercream similar to the mousseline. I have no idea how it comes up, but the method seems "easier"?

It calls for stirring together ALL the sugar and egg whites gently (not whipping) on the stove over low heat until the sugar is dissolved. Then whip it in the mixer, and later add the softened cold butter.

I don't think the sugar will ever reach the firm ball point otherwise you end up with cooked eggs? Bringing the sugar to firm ball point is near a requirement to have stable egg whites in Italian meringue.

The method does sound time saving and simplified though.

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OK, got the Bible and I will continue on my holy mission. Now, another question and I will try to make this the last on this subject, try not to giggle: Does anyone think the powdered egg whites would hold up? I am afraid someone will be afraid of raw eggwhites in the heat, although I certainly would not be. I will go ahead and try it, unless someone tells me it is sure to be doomed.

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Nope - you're Patrincia to us! :)

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Elise - you will not regret purchasing the cake bible!!! Best of luck to you at the fair!

oh btw, my name actually is Patricia - Patrincia is just my screen name :)

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Oops, looks like it's Patrincia. Sorry!

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Patricia,

Haven't ventured into the halls of fondant yet. Frosting is the traditional thing at the fair. The cake exhibit is inside. Not too worried about particles. Well, looks like I'm on my way to the bookstore to get the Bible.

Thank you so much for your advice. I stumbled across you all last night and am enjoying reading about the baking adventures of others.

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We all agree the Mousseline BC is the best option for warmer temperatures. Must it be a frosting of some sort, or is chocolate fondant an option for you? (doesn't taste quite a good, but might hold up in the heat a bit better)

Will the judges be tasting? If so, blow their socks off with the MBC! Rose frequently suggests making a tiny test cake to see how it reacts to similar weather conditions. Sounds like you have a bit of time to experiment a bit.

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One more thought - the Mousseline Buttercream DOES NOT crust over - something to keep in mind if the fair is held outside (airborn particles will stick to the bc).

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My goodness, this is fast! The cake exhbits are inside a hall with fans a-blowin' but the doors are open and the outside may be into the 90s. It has to be delivered at 9 a.m., sliver-sampled by the judge sometime in the morning and be ready to go to auction (if it places, that is) around 7 p.m. There is no possibility for refrigeration.

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Now that I think about it, the Mousseline Buttercream recipe has a variation for both regular chocolate, and white chocolate. I think that might be your best bet!

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Elise - will the fair be held inside or outside? How long will the cake need to be displayed?

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I need a light colored chocolate frosting which will hold up at a county fair in mid-July in Maryland. I don't like the feel of many of the confectioner sugar-based recipe (too sweet, gritty sometimes) but a whipped cream or cream cheese frosting is prohibited for obvious reasons. I have used 1/2 white chocolate squares and 1/2 unsweetened baking chocolate squares which produces the right color and flavor. I am looking to frost a dark chocolate cake and put dark shaved chocolate over the top. Please help!

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Wow, that must have been a lot of work!

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once i lined a satin ribon with a strip of silicone-coated baking paper tucking with fine thread (matching the colour of the ribon of course). the niddlework was not that good but somehow served the purpose.

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Hey everyone - I just read something on the internet about placing fabric ribbon on buttercream cakes. The tip was to dip the ribbon in veggie oil, then wipe dry - this will saturate the ribbon, eliminating the possibility of greasy spots (of course it will most likely deepen the ribbon color somewhat).

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Beverly - will the reception be held in an air conditioned room or outside? Rose says her Mousseline buttercream holds up the best in warm temp (I can attest to that). I'd say you would be pretty safe using it if you chill the cake well before transpoting it, and if you have air conditioning in your car and reception site.

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Which of the buttercream's in the Cake Bible will be the safest bet for a wedding cake in Arizona hot July weather? Most places and cars have AC but, better safe than sorry. It will be baked and frosted at one place and then go for about 1 to 1 1/2 hour car ride for assembly and decorating. Not sure about refrigeration. Original cake ladies can't do it after all so grandma (me) will do it when I get there.

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try the vt. butter and cheese co. high fat butter and the organic valley==both cultured--i love the taste.

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Oh yes - puff pastry for sure (more water = more layers). Didn't think about it for buttercreams though; interesting. Might be a good idea to taste test first to be sure you like the flavor.

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just want to add that i love the european or american high fat butters for puff pastry and for buttercreams.

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Hi Joan - Yes, Rose has addressed the issue with European butters and you're right - they do contain less water, and they have a higher fat content too (plus they are really expensive, comparatively speaking). I've used European butter at the table, but I'm sure you'll get the best results using fresh unsalted American butter in Rose's recipes. (BTW - I found the Euro butter to taste a bit "green" or "grassy" - not unpleasant, but a bit different)

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Thank you, Patricia, for your response to my question about using a syringe for applying syrup to layers.
I now have another question about butter. Years ago I recall Julia Child speaking about European butter and our butter having more liquid, and so forth. I wonder if that problem still exists, if I should buy one of the European butters I see i the markets these days, or what? Thanks. Joan

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Theresa - oh boy, you're right about that! (but I really did enjoy doing it)

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Yes, do check out Patrincia's chocolate ganache-covered cake with the red roses and baby's breath. It is simple, elegant and stunning! (Patrincia, bet you didn't think it was so simple when you were decorating it!)

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Oh Carol, you might be interested in the chocolate ganache covered wedding cake I made, as well wedding cakes made by others on this site. You can find the photos by clicking on "wedding" under "categories" up at the top of this page, on the left hand side.

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Oh thank you Carol - This cake was actually the first one I ever added ribbon to.

I refrigerated the individual tiers, undecorated, until it was time to deliver to the reception site. Once I got there I stacked the tiers, then added the ribbon (which stuck to the buttercream very well), and lastly added the flowers. The buttercream did indeed seep into the ribbon, which scared me at first because it looked blotchy, but after a few minutes the ribbon's blotchy appearance disappeared because the it became equally saturated with the buttercream. It sounds weird, but it actually looked just fine.

As for the refrigeration - I do refrigerate, several times, after frosting with buttercream (or ganache). I first do a thin crumb coat and chill until firm, then put on another thin coat and chill again, and so on until I'm happy with the way it looks.

I hope I explained that well - please let me know if you have any additional questions.

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Patrincia, your wedding cake is beautiful!!! A few questions...how do you keep the buttercream from seeping into the ribbon and do you put your cake in the refrigerator after putting on the icing and ribbon till time for the wedding. Carol

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BAKER'S JOY - I wouldn't be without it! So easy to use, the cakes come out of the pan beautifully and the pans are so easy to clean. It is soooooo much easier than the butter, flour and parchment - way too many steps! I HIGHLY recommend it!!!

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Diane - I have successfully made the Mousseline Buttercream without the alcohol. I increased the vanilla in the recipe (look at the wedding cake pictured at the top of this thread) and it tasted so delicious, and it held up in very warm conditions for a long time.

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p.s. i've gone through many a can of BJ and have never had this happen. i'm sure the store will take it back.

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mjo, butter has milk solids and water which makes it less than ideal for coating a pan. either use clarified butter or solid vegetable shortening. but when it comes to fluted tube pans, nothing beats baker's joy for getting into all the little crevises. i just got back from germany where i found BJ at the PX at ramstein airforce base and didn't have to frost the sides of the cake it released so perfectly i hated to hide the perfect golden crust!

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diane, you don't need to add any liquid--you can just add some extra vanilla if you want, or do the lemon juice to taste. 1 cup might be too intense. i've also found that adding the cool meringue (68 to 70 degrees F) to the cool beaten butter works better than the other way around.

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Baker's Joy people--go back to butter and flouring your pans and using parchment on the bottom of the pan. It works so much better than anything else. I have given up pan spray completely!! Try it, i promise that you will like it.

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Thanks. Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well. One last question, for the recipe for the 3 tier cake it calls for 1 cup of the alcohol. Would you still use 1 cup of the fresh squeezed lemon juice? Could you use water with some other clear flavoring so the buttercream stays white?

Thank you again... I can't wait to start baking!

Diane

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i can't find it either! you can substitute freshly squeezed lemon juice or any of the fruit purees or curds in the variation. sorry--but i'm waaay behind in postings now and have a bad cold to boot so short on time.

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Rose,

I searched the blog using the following words: buttercream, mousseline, substitutes, liquer, liquor, alcohol, and non-alcholic. I can't find a thing about substituting the liquer in the mousseline buttercream.

Can you help direct the search in the right direction?

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please do a search on the blog--i gave several suggestions the last time this question cake up!

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I have been taking the Wilton cake decorating courses as well. I can't stand the buttercream icing and I definitely don't want to use it on my friend's bridal shower and wedding cakes. I am really looking forward to trying Rose's Mousseline Buttercream. I was excited to read in her book that I can pipe roses or borders with it. I have only my problem... I can't use the liquer and I don't know what I can use it place of the alcohol. Help?

Diane

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Patricia,

Sorry to hear that. I tested mine out again after the earlier posts and I bet you have a defective nozzle. You should tell the store and they'll probably give you a new can - It's worth a shot.

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Brian - I tried rinsing the nozzle, but I still get a stream instead of a spray. It's going back to the store; and I'm going back to my old pam/waxed paper method. Oh well.

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Patrincia, the velcro area on my cake strips are about an inch long.

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Patricia,

I only recently tried Bakers Joy for the first time, but mine sprayed out pretty close to the way traditional cooking spray does. It seemed "heavier" because of the flour, but it didn't come out in a stream. It sounds like the nozzle might be defective. I also always take off the nozzle and rinse it with warm water directly after use (as I remember Rose recommending).

Brian

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Liz - I found the Baker's Joy at Super Wal-Mart. I typically spray the traditional cooking spray in the pans and then add either parchment or waxed paper, and my cakes have always come out of the pans fine. This time I used parchment and the Baker's Joy, and the cakes came out of the pan fine also, but I think I ended up with more B J because of the way it was coming out of the can (hard to put a thin even coat when it's coming out in a stream).

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Patrincia,

I have always been curious about the Bakers Joy spray... where did you find it? I don't know how it is supposed to come out of the can, so hopefully someone else can answer that question. Did the Bakers Joy make it easier to get the cakes out of the pan?

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Quick question for everyone - I just purchased Baker's Joy spray for the first time. I shook the can as directed and held it 6" from the cake pan. When I push the nozzle-thiny it sprays out in a stream instead of a misty spray. Is that the way it's supposed to come out of the can?

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you say the velcro is 3/4 of an inch wide, but how long is it? (not the whole length of the cake strip, just the velcro part) Thanks for your time.

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Mine are about 3/4 of an inch wide or so, and they fit around my 9 inch pans with no problem. I've never done so, but I don't see why you couldn't hook two together to use on a bigger pan.

BTW, a friend told me these strips are made of the same material that firemen's jackets are made from!

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they sound great! how large is the velcro strip? Have you ever used them together for a large 12 or 14-inche tier?

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Patrincia, the cake strips work great, and they don't melt. They are made of a heat-resistant material. You soak the ones I have in water, then wrap them around the pans. As they dry, they keep the cake level. I've had the ones I use for about a year. I tend to replace them ever 18 months or so.

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Kim - I haven't seen the cake stips with velcro before... how well does the velcro work? I thought velcro was made with a plasticy kind of material, does it melt of smell weird when it's in the oven?

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Hi Michelle - if you read the thread called "Patrincia'a wedding cake" (it's all chocolate) I describe in detail how I get those nice crisp edges. Magic-cake strips certainly do help make the layers bake up nice and even, but I think the application of the buttercream is what really makes a difference on a cake.

I've never taken a decorating class, but I think the buttercream you are talking about is the kind that "crusts" over. That might be good to start with, but I highly recommend you eventually make the switch to a high quality buttercream (made with cooked sugar) like the ones Rose puts in her cookbooks.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks for your nice words and happy decorating.

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Michelle, I use cake pan strips, and my cakes always bake nice and evenly. I have this brand (http://www.amazon.com/Evenbake-Cake-Strips-Standard-Velcro/dp/B000H97QJC), but Wilton makes them too.

They work great!

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Michelle Kolachi
Michelle Kolachi
04/06/2007 11:57 PM

What a beautiful cake! Congratulations! I am a stay-at-home mom and have started the Wilton cake decorating classes at Michael's. I have found that I love it! I have a question for you... What is your trick to getting such a crisp corner and flat top? Mine seem to always have a rounded edge no matter how hard I try. I am using the Wilton buttercream recipe. Your cake icing looks so perfect... how did you get it that way?

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Theresa - you're so sweet. I have to say, the cake did taste wonderful! One lady took a piece of cake on her way out the door and the next day she said to me, "if I had know how delicious that cake was, I would have taken a much bigger piece - that frosting was delicious!" (thanks Rose).

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RITA ROLTER
RITA ROLTER
04/05/2007 01:54 PM

I have been baking the same passover spong cake for more years than I can remember. It always came out 3 1/2 to 4 inches high, light as a feather with a great crumb. This year, for whatever reason, I cannot get a cake that does not fall. I am doing everything exactly the same and am at a loss as to what I am doing wrong. The recipe was given to me by a commercial baker in the late 50's and never failed.
8 whole large eggs (440-450gms), 1 1/2 c(300gms)sugar, 1/2 c(80gms)matzo cake flour, 1/2 c(92gms)potato starch, rind and juice of 1 lemon, 1/4 t salt;
The room tempature whole eggs are beaten with a whisk until volume almost fills bowl.Sugar is slowly added and beaten until thick ribbons form when beater is lifted. Lemon juice and rind are added, followed by folding in dry ingredients. Batter is put into an ungreased 10 inch tube pan,batter cut through and baked in a preheated 325 degree oven with the rack in the lowest position. After baking about 10 minutes, the cake rises and then begins to fall.
I lived in Pittsburgh when I first stared baking this cake and now live in Florida. Is the oven temperature too low?
Should I bake the cake in the middle of the oven? Total baking time called for is 1 hour and 10 minutes.
To say I am frustrated is a very mild observation. Any assistance would be greatfully appreciated

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Patrincia, another beautiful cake! Thanks for the details of the process. Regarding your comment that your cakes "not only look like they were made by an upscale professional bakery, but they taste like it too!": I think you're wrong -- they look like it but I'll bet they taste a whole lot BETTER than the professional bakery's!!!

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PattyBee - thanks so much for your kind words. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out despite several last minute glitches that could have ruined everything... it was a comedy of errors from start to finish.

The first issue was the weather - was unseasonably warm and rainy the day before the wedding; too early in the year to turn on the AC, and too wet and muggy outside to open the windows. After baking all day, my kitchen was a bit on the warm side.

The buttercream - I made 3 batches, and for some reason they took much longer to whip up than they usually do. I don't know if that was caused by the humidity outside, or the warmer than normal temp of my kitchen, but I wasn't sure my poor mixer would survive (and if it did, would it ever forgive me).

The cake - when I finally overcame that near disaster, I realized I had baked all the cake layers using twice as much butter as the recipe called for (don't read a recipe in the middle of the night and expect to get it right). Anyway, there wasn't enough time to rebake them, but thankfully I had one extra 6" cake layer, so I slathered it with buttercream and gave it to my husband to taste... he gave me "2 thumbs up" so I went with it (the extra butter made the cake pretty moist, but it also made the layers not rise as well - I won't make that mistake again).

Then there were the flowers - the groom's family made all the floral arrangements and I was given really skimpy leftovers to decorate the cake with. The flowers were literally falling apart, and there definitely weren't enough of them, so I made a middle-of-the-night run to our 24-hour Wal-Mart only to find flowers that were long past their prime. So I drove across town to the other 24-hour WM only to find more of the same, but they did have the most gorgeous rose hips, and I found grosgrain ribbon in the perfect shade of teal blue which I think really improved the overall appearance and "Voila!" ....the whole thing was a piece of cake :)

I tell you what - if I ever do this again, I'm definitely going to start it a couple of days in advance!

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Oh, that's gorgeous. I'm so impressed. I love looking at your photos.

When I was in grad school, a friend and I made the cake for her brother's wedding using TCB . . . it was delicious, as were the experiments, but nothing like so pretty. We tried to become experts at that one cake before the big day, but alas, so many things went wrong that we almost didn't get it made in time for the reception--in spite of starting the process days in advance!In the end we decorated it *very quickly* with fresh daisies from the field next door.

Anyway, it was a big learning experience, and left me with the utmost respect for those of you who make wedding cakes . . . and make it look easy!!

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Thanks Matthew - the cake was vanilla with a hint of almond, and the filling was Rose's Mousseline Buttercream. It tasted great!

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Beautiful! What was inside?

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