Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

Hi again. I was baking and freezing my cakes, and well, the layers of the lowermost tier- 10" chocolate- are just sooo soft that they were breaking off even though they were cool. I should probably have chilled them a bit, but oh well... now I'm just wondering if it will be sturdy enough to support the two tiers on top.

I got the recipe from the Smittenkitchen blog, where the writer showed how she used it to bake three 8" layers.

Makes one 8-inch square, three layer cake

3 cups cake flour
3 cups sugar
1 1/2 cups unsweetened cocoa powder (not Dutch process)
3 teaspoons baking soda
3/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon
3/4 teaspoon salt
3 sticks (12 ounces) unsalted butter, at room temperature
1 1/2 cups buttermilk
3 eggs
1 1/2 cups freshly brewed coffee, cooled to room temperature

1. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Butter three 8-inch square cake pans. Line the bottoms with parchment or waxed paper and butter the paper.

2. In a large mixer bowl, combine the flour, sugar, cocoa, baking soda, cinnamon, and salt. With the electric mixer on low speed, blend for about 30 seconds. Add the butter and buttermilk and blend on low until moistened. Raise the speed to medium and beat until light and fluffy, 2 to 3 minutes.

3. Whisk the eggs and coffee together, and add to the batter in 3 additions, scraping down the sides of the bowl and beating only until blended after each addition. Divide the batter among the three prepared pans; each pan will take about 3 1/4 cups of batter.

4. Bake for 38 to 40 minutes

Since I was baking larger layers, I upped the quantities of everything, including buttermilk, coffee and soda. I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Oh well, what's done is done. Anyway of finding out for sure/ doing something about this?

Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | December 11, 2008 3:35 AM #

salma, I believe all answers areon cake bible.

1- cake should sit on the cardboard round prior to frosting, so you can lift/move the cake tiers. the cardboard will get soggy if your cake has excessive syrup or if you don't prevent condensation when thawing. my frosted cakes are frozen in vacuum or with close and tight plastic wrap and I don't open the wrap until cake has finished defrosting.

2- I don't see why you need a crumb coat, any crumbs will be covered by your poured ganache! if you care for your inside ganache to be crumb free then crumb coat.

3- I would apply the first ganache prior to freexing. Then thaw in the refrigerator and apply your poured ganache. Then immediatelly return to the refrigerator to prevent condensation. Cake must be well refrigerated so it will remain solid and survive the trip and display. the poured ganache may loose shine when refrigerated, but in my experience when displayed in my warm climate, the shine comes right back!

4- you can place the straws at any time.

5- my poured ganache is just chocolate melted in a bit of cream. please don't boil the chocolate or it will loose its temper and ability to solidify.

I think your chocolate cake will be fantastic.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector Wong | December 3, 2008 11:35 AM #

One cake, innumerable questions-

Regarding my three tier stacked cake-

Should I frost the layers with ganache frosting, assemble each tier, crumbcoat and freeze, so I only have to defrost and pour on the final ganache before assembly? Or is it better to crumb coat on the final day a little before the poured layer (Patrincia mentioned condensation affecting ganache. If I'm careful about returning it to room temp, would the first idea work?) Or is it even necessary to crumbcoat the layersif they are being coated in warm ganache? All in all, what is the best way to get a smooth shiny coating of ganache? (while on that subject, is it better to do one pouring or more?)

Also, provided I stack the layers of each tier and freeze, can i put them on the foil-covered cardboard rounds that I'll be using in the final stacking? Would they go soggy in the freezer?

And how, or rather when, do I mark the dowel positions? I think I would just stick them in, and pour the ganache on top, otherwise it might get messy. Not sure, please advise me.

Another question. I intend to prepare each tier and stick it in the fridge, then drive them to the venue (a covered lawn) which is about 25min away. I'll do the final assembling there, after which the cake will sit out for around 2 hours. The temperature is around So do you think the ganache will get too squishy or anything?

And how do I figure out the total amount of ganache needed?

Thanks

Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | December 3, 2008 9:32 AM #

salma, I hope you post a pic since your cake is sounding fantastic! light whipped chocolate ganache is lighter brown and I have used semiswet chocolate chips commonly used in cookies (nestle, yellow bag).

your 3 chocolate idea sounds fantastic. white choclate mousseline will be a better bet than white chocolate ganache (is there such thing?). creame ivoire may work, too.

good luck, and don't straw yourself! use plain wood sticks or plastic pvc piping or dowel rods, just to be safe. even pencils will work well!

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 17, 2008 4:15 AM #

Hector, I was wondering where you got the pic of all those straws:) Thank you for posting it, it's a great help. I've seen the red-n-white striped ones here. Will try em. BTW, what is the most important feature of straws for this purpose- thickness, hollowness (this i ask since you suggested disposable chopsticks), inflexibility...? And yes, that part about them being neither too thin nor too thick was funny.

Shimi: i am so grateful for your suggestions! I'm leaving tonight, so you are more than in time.

Reeni: really glad you told me that milk chocolate ganache is not too good an idea. I was hoping to do three tiers, in dark, milk and white chocolate ganache. Hmm, will have to think what to do to get the medium color in the centre tier now. As for TCB, i lead a deprived existence. I've never laid eyes/ hands on one, and have just seen it online. I do intend to change the status quo very soon though.

Patrincia, we get these cream tetrapacks here, 40% fat content. I've made ganache using it, n i think it turned out ok. Will be doing test runs once i get back...

Take care, you all!

Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | November 16, 2008 9:17 PM #

Patrincia, was just a sampler box from Dixie brands I got when attending a offie supplies trade show! I immediatelly thougt of posting the picture on the blog.

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 16, 2008 12:27 PM #

Salma, I know all about substituting ingredients in the tropics, having first attempted duplicating the creations in TCB when I still lived in the Philippines in the 80's and early 90's-- when being a foodie was so much harder than it is now!! it is now a bit of a niche for me, but back then, substituting tropical ingredients in for euro or american was a neccessity.
The chocolate: use good-quality semisweet chocolate chips, or try hitting the duty-free or the airports, look for Lindt, Cadbury or Hershey semisweet bars. Milk chocolate is not really the best for ganaches except the Milk Chocolate Buttercream which specifically calls for it; it is too soft and won't coat the cake properly.
The dairy: there is cream available in cans, Nestle and a few other brands will label it "table cream". Your local dairy producer might also have heavy cream (or double cream, or whipping cream) tetra packs. These all are ultrapasteurized but have the right amount of fat. Also check out Rose's way of boosting the fat of lighter cream with butter by re-emulsifying ... almost like buerre blanc. It is in the pages of TCB near the whipped creams.
i can vouch for bubble tea straws, they work well for tiering cakes. Another alternative is lollipop sticks, at least 1/4" in diameter. HTH!

Reply to this      Posted by: reeni | November 16, 2008 10:33 AM #

Salma - I wouldn't suggest substituting milk for cream when making ganache. But you can make ganache with sour cream. Yogurt and Sour Cream are often used interchangeably here, maybe yogurt would be another option in the ganache... might be worth making a very small test batch to see what happens.

Do a search on the blog - I think I recall reading a post about adding butter to milk in order to substitute heavy cream (I'm not positive on that though, and it might only be suitable as a substitute in baked recipes).

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 16, 2008 8:47 AM #

Hector - Why am I not surprised that you have such a vast collection of straws?

:)

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 16, 2008 8:28 AM #

Hector is right, the little juice box straws are not wide enough, but McDonald's straws are perfect.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 16, 2008 8:26 AM #

Hector is right, the little juice box straws are not wide enough, but McDonald's straws are perfect.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 16, 2008 8:25 AM #

Salma

I've just read this thread and don't know if you will read it in time. You mentioned being in Kuala Lumpur in the next few days and wanted to know where to find cake ingredients.

One good shop is Ampang Grocer on Jalan Ampang in the city itself. They have most of the stuff you would need, and is the only shop where I found Softasilk cake flour (though it cost about 5x as much as the local cake flour). They carry a lot of American ingredients (not just for cakes).

The other place is Hock Choon, also on Jalan Ampang. Another well stocked grocery store that has a lot of cake/pastry ingredients.

Sorry I can't give you the exact addresses, but all the taxi drivers SHOULD know Jalan Ampang - it's a major road!

Good luck with your cake!

Reply to this      Posted by: Shimi | November 16, 2008 4:44 AM #

HI Salma, the McDonalds straws are one of the best to use, and indeed I've done the midnight run to McDonalds when I could not find plastic straws!

The ones you indicate for the juice packs, are very sturdy, but they are too thin.

Hope that helps, and hope what you get is what we see. If there is such thing as a "regular" plastic straw that is all you need, but try getting the ones made of more sturdy plastic similar material made from the bubble tea straws. You need not use the bubble tea straws, it isn't necessary although a lot sturdier.

I think the thicker plastics are the ones that aren't clear translucent. Almost all plastic straw that are colored, are made of a thicker plastic.

The strength of the straws used for cake tiers is that it needs a minimum width, if the width is too thin it will just bend in half. To confuse you more, if the width is too wide, it will also bend in half (I have never seen straws such wide thought).

The strength of the straws comes also from remaining vertically put, on a layer cake. The cake itself (and the frosting) will support the straw from shifting or bending. It is really a work of the two. A straw on its own isn't as sturdy as one inserted on cake.

Here is a picture of all the straws one can find in the USA. You can grab what you can find, cut a few 3 or 4" pieces, and stand them up on a table, then press on the top and see which ones are stronger.

http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/Straws.html

For Elaine's 7-5-3" tiered cakes, I used the translucent straws on this picture, the weakest ones!

Sure the straws wont be strong enough to step on them, but sufficient for cake.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | November 16, 2008 2:04 AM #

Hehe. Thanks for the note about the paper straws, but plastic ones seem to be the popular choice. Which kind is the question confusing me.

We get these 8 oz juice tetrapacks here with little foil-covered holes on the top that you pierce through with the thin, white, hardish straws they sell alongside. I think they might be a good bet, but I could be totally wrong.

I looked up bubble straws online, and I think we get similar but thinner kinds here. Once again, not sure. How about the ones in McDonalds’ shakes? I never go there, but if you all think they could work, I just might saunter in tomorrow and order a double helping

BTW, at least half the question I’m going to be posing off n on would be based on the ‘we don’t get such-and-such product here, so can I substitute xyz instead?” premise. Here’s one: for ganache, can I use Hershey’s milk and semi-sweet chocolate chips? I hope Valrhona, Guittard etc enthusiasts are not cringing, but that’s all available here. Ordering online would be murderously expensive.

Patrincia, the long line of zeroes at the end of my previous message was my daughter’s doing, though my marbles may be similarly strewn about at the end of this first attempt at a tiered cake…

Hector, just the mention of all those delights you conjure up is enough to set me drooling. Good luck with everything, which I hope will work out fine, and more power to you!

Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | November 16, 2008 1:23 AM #

salma, u r my favorite people! thank you for pointing out I have no masterpieces since I am alive =)

hawaii way was on 2007. on 2006 was my 40 panettone trials. holiday 2007 was Roses's Celebrations Thanksgiving meal. 2008 brought Rose's World cake and my cousin's 7 cake wedding. seems that this has been a yearly show and no idea what is coming on 2009! my car has just lost a spark plug and all my money is going towards my new apartment and florist, I am really nervous of my future but is people like you and this blog who keeps me going!

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 15, 2008 11:22 PM #

Do check out "bubble tea" straws as well. They have a larger diameter and are made of a much stronger heavy-weight plastic.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 15, 2008 2:16 PM #

disposable wood chopsticks work well, too! but really Rose's discovery on plastic straws are the way to go!

if I am asked to remake hawai way, for fun and for true scientifc data, I shall use plastic straws to proove Rose's Law =)

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 15, 2008 2:00 PM #

Hmmm, bamboo is natural, hollow, strong, renewable, and grows in larger diameters.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 15, 2008 1:08 PM #

Oh yes, paper straws would be disastrous. Do they still make paper straws?

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 15, 2008 12:51 PM #

Hector, Patrincia... and Rose, of course:) i am SO in awe of these names! It's fabulous to be able to get advice from such experienced bakers, thanks to technology, and more so, you guys' generosity.

Hector, while Patrincia is undoubtedly an expert at such cakes, you are no less. In fact, when referring to your marvellous cake (TWELVE tiers? i did you a disservice in thinking it was eleven), i was thinking that it's probably wrong to call it your 'masterpiece'. I mean, it is amazing, but isn't a masterpiece the best work ever produced in the creator's lifetime? If so, every tempting-looking photograph you upload is fabulous in itself; each makes it harder to choose the best (not that I want to), and convinces me that you have much, much more up your sleeve. Can't wait to see what comes next!

And Patrincia, there are definitely some great people here, I was just lucky one of the nicest answered:)

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Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | November 15, 2008 9:18 AM #

salma, what a great cake you are making and international feat. patrincia's advise is all you need.

each of my 12 biscuit tiers for hawaii way was on a cardboard round waterproofed with foil. indeed I used two cardboard rounds taped together with the cardboard veins crossed. the weight after stacking the 7th plus tier was too heavy and subsequently smashed the cardboard. this error made the total 12 tier cake lean about 1 inch. you won't have ANY trouble with cardboard and straws on ANY 4 minus tiered cakes!

good luck and can't wait to hear more from your overseas cake!

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 14, 2008 11:52 PM #

Oh gee... I just so happened to be working late at my computer tonight. There are lots of wonderful bakers here who would have offered great advice if they saw your post before me :). Have fun with your new copy of TCB, and buy lots of baking goodies on your trip!

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 14, 2008 10:25 PM #

Wow, I don't believe this! I shouldn't be so surprised, considering that you replied to my first question so soon, but your second reply came within 30 min. This is just so thrilling! Occasionally, living across the Atlantic has its advantages- the time difference is a working in my favour:)

Not to whine, but it can get frustrating reading all these wonderful caking experiences, and realising you can't attempt them, at least in the original, because a lot of stuff, ingredients and equipment, is not available here. Then I console myself with the upsides I do have:) I'm ordreing The Cake Bible online though, because I've decided i just cannnnot bear the torture of seeing you all trying the delicious recipes and having to restrict myself to viewership. Yes, the pictures and descriptions are great, but I long for the taste and texture, and simply the experience of making them:)

Patrincia, I hate to be a dud btw, but I still can't ask a new question. I wanted to ask Elicia how well-stocked the baking stores in Kuala Lumpur are, since I'm going there on vacation in two days. Cake flour, good-quality chocolate etc... sigh.

But thanks again for your detailed response. I doubt I can get foam boards; cardboard sounds easier in every way. So, provided I end up coating the cake with ganache, and freezing it to be given the final ganache covering later on, I'll make sure that the condensation has disappeared. (That ganache story was scary. i'll be especially careful)

BTW, I was just going through your older postings, and all the advice you've given to bakers asking about your lovely wedding cakes is so hugely useful. Thank you for sharing your expertise!

Reply to this      Posted by: Salma | November 14, 2008 10:14 PM #

Hi Salma - great questions... Hector's Hawaii Way Cake was made of Biscuit de Savoie that was moistened with an espresso sugar syrup. The addition of the sugar syrup makes the cardbaord rounds very wet which weakens them considerably. Standard butter cake don't include the syrup, and I've never had a problem with the cardboard getting wet (greasy yes, wet no :) ).

I don't know if you have access to foam core boards (usually found in art supply stores), but some cake makers use those to support their tiers, especially very heavy ones, but I find the foam core is more difficult to cut into a perfectly round shape than cardboard is.

When I mentioned pouring ganache on a "wet" cake, I was referring to a chilled, crumb coated cake that might have condensation form on it's surface after being removed from the refrigerator. If that happens, the condensation should gradually dissipate, and then it would be safe to coat it with ganache. I once had a large batch of ganache chilling in the fridge... just a tiny bit of condensation formed on it's surface and I didn't think anything of it. Well, the minute I started whipping it, the whole batch seized into the clumpiest mess. Thankfully I had another batch in the fridge and I was able to prevent it's demise. Btw, I fed the seized batch to the family so it didn't go to waste.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 14, 2008 9:43 PM #

Hi Patrincia. I really appreciate the reply:)

May i ask what you mean by not pouring ganache over a wet cake surface? Are you referring to my question about freezing the cake with one coat of ganache already on it, that might get too wet on thawing to pour the final coat on top?

Also, referring to something Hector wrote elsewhere about his eleven-layer masterpiece: he says not to use cardboard circles. is that only because of the huge number of tiers? I ask because I've generally read about bakers using them, and was thinking of cutting out thin cardboard and covering it with foil.

And I'm especially glad that you answered about the flowers, since I adore the wedding cakes you've psoted here. In fact, it was those beauties, more than anything else, that convinced me that fresh flowers are the best decoration- easier to do, and yet so spectacular to look at!

Reply to this      Posted by: Anonymous | November 14, 2008 9:16 PM #

Oops, that was from me.

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 14, 2008 5:46 PM #

Hi Salma,
Wow... you have thought long about this project, haven't you. :)

Let's see... first of all, don't be afraid to stack your tiers, once you do it you realize it wasn't so hard. a 4-6-8 cake is fairly small, so you would easily be able to use straws instead of dowels. Rose suggests straws in even larger tiers... they are very strong, cheap, and very easy to cut.

As for your ganache question... well, I wouldn't pour ganache over buttercream... that would just be too much. You'll have to experiment a little and see if you like the way your cake looks with poured ganache over a naked cake, or poured ganache over a smooth ganache base.

For the flowers, I just place them gently on the cake and make sure everyone knows they are for decoration only. I don't poke them into the cake. If you cut and place the flowers just before the wedding, you won't have to worry about them drying out.

Feel free to freeze your cakes ahead of time, being sure to seal them very well. Thaw in the fridge to reduce condensation. Please don't pour ganache onto a wet cake surface - the moisture can make the ganache seize. Your cake should be served at room temperature - cold ganache is much to difficult to cut.

Your instant coffee/hot water substitution should work perfectly.

also, you can start new topics on the forum... just go to the pink section at the top left side of this screen and it will link you to the forum. Please don't hesitate to ask more questions!

Good Luck!

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | November 14, 2008 5:44 PM #

Hi Salma,
Wow... you have thought long about this project, haven't you. :)

Let's see... first of all, don't be afraid to stack your tiers, once you do it you realize it wasn't so hard. a 4-6-8 cake is fairly small, so you would easily be able to use straws instead of dowels. Rose suggests straws in even larger tiers... they are very strong, cheap, and very easy to cut.

As for your ganache question... well, I wouldn't p