Didn't know where to post this question...regarding the iconic NYC Black and White cookie...I searched the blog and it lead me to this page (someone just happens to mention them here...no real info)...so here goes.

Rose:
Hope you can help here. Yesterday I had a really bad day...really bad...very very very bad...just everything went wrong. No major crisis but, needless to say, I was in a terrible mood. So after a yummy thin crust pizza at John's what else would take the edge off?...Black and White cookies of course...and even more...MAKING THEM MYSELF. So...I had two recipies...gave one a try. They were very good...except...the white icing. It was confectioners sugar and vanilla which were stirred into some water and corn syrup that were brought to a boil. If you tasted the stuff...as my grandmother would have said..."Yack". Since it was 11 PM, I spread them on half the cookies...the other half was the same stuff, with some unsweetened chocolate added...much better. Now quite frankly, when you tasted the cookie...the white icing wasn't so bad...but here's the question...Are Black and white cookies actually made with poured fondant? and did they just simplify it for the "home baker"...or is this just a bad recipe? Any thoughts?

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thank you hector..

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Samele, I don't see why not. Use the rose factor guide for yellow cake which would be the most similar to the sour cream butter cake, it should work.

You may want to bake longer or crank up the heat a little, since most people happen to underbake when doing larger layers.

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I absolutely love the sour cream butter cake.. I actually use 2 whole eggs instead of just the yolks and it is like my ultimate cake.. I wanted to try the all occasion yellow downy, but i love the butter one so much Im like why mess with a good thing LOL..

ok so my question is this..(and I searched) can u do rose factor for the smaller cakes in the book, I need to make a 12,9,6 for this weekend and I usualyl make double or triple batches of the butter cake when I have to make quite a bit.. is this the best way to do it, or is there another way?

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Charlotte - you can get the cake bible at libraries, book stores, and on-line book stores. It's very easy to find.

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where can i get a cake bible?

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where can i get a cake bible?

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Utah. They'll have large white tents and the cake table is next to a fence, so hopefully that'll block the sun and cool down that area a bit. It doesn't cool down until the reception is almost over.

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Barbara, I am humble pie!

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Hector,
You are truly a baking genius. I learn almost as much from you as I do from Rose. Do you have a blog of your own?
You would make a great assistant to Rose.

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Hi Tiffany - I love Rose's fondant too - much much much better than pre-made.

Don't worry at all about the eggs in the buttercream - the cooked sugar syrup will completely cook them!

Tell you sister displaying any cake in 90+ degree weather for so long is a disaster waiting to happen. Most brides just have an idea of what they want, but they really don't have any idea what the sun/heat can (and will) do to a cake. You have a little bit of time before the big day - can you make a practice cake (like the top tier) and put it outside in the heat for a couple of hours so you can see how it will react?

Just out of curiosity, what part of the country are we talking about here?

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Thanks everyone. I'm glad I found this blog. I'll try the recipe again tonight. I did let it cool all the way before cutting it and I had cardboard under all the layers.

Has anyone made meringue buttercream to go under fondant in hot weather (90+)? I've made tons of fondant cakes but never with real buttercream and never outside in hot weather. I'm afraid of the buttercream underneath getting too soft or melting. I'm also nervous because it seems like this buttercream still has raw egg whites (or am I wrong?) Hot weather and raw eggs may not be a good idea.

(Rose's fondant recipe is fabulous, by the way. Much better tasting than bought fondant). My sister wants it displayed for an hour and a half to two hours. Most people around here do that but since this is my first time actually baking the cake (I usually just decorate) I'm nervous.

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LuAnn, more than the brand of corn starch, I think it is more important the freshness and if stored airtight. I use Kingsford's and I do notice a difference when I first open the box than a few months later. Kingsford's comes with a sealed inner bag, many other brands don't.

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Okay, I'm not done yet...

Instead of a chocolate filling, I'd suggest the Mousseline Buttercream using vanilla instead of the alcohol. I use a good quality vanilla extract, which tints the color of the finished buttercream ever so slightly, but I don't think you will notice the slight coloration next to a chocolate cake layer. I've read that "vanilla powder" imparts even less color - I purchased some recently but haven't had an opportunity to try it out yet.

Re oven temp - I wouldn't be too terribly alarmed about a 15 minute difference in the time it took for your cake to bake, but I too would suggest you get an oven thermometer - can make a dramatic difference if your oven isn't calibrated properly. Also, be careful not to leave your oven door open for too long when you put your pan(s) in - tons of heat escapes when you open that door and it can take a very long time for your oven to get back up to the proper temperature.

I use softasilk flour - works great for me. Dutch processed cocoa should be fine too. I would concentrate on your mixing method and carefully measuring and/or preferably weighing your ingredients.

Everything will work out in the end - we'll be here the cheer you on!

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Tiffany - I personally would not use any chocolate in 90+ degree weather.

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Hi Tiffany - I'm just getting a chance to read your message, sorry I didn't see it sooner. I have a quick question for you in regards to your "crumbly" cake. How long did you let it cool before you sliced it? You have to let them cool completely - actually, I find they cut much nicer when they are completely chilled first (plus, it gives them time to "settle"). Butter cakes are heavy - be sure to support your sliced layers with cardboard rounds or cookie sheets or something (makes moving them much more stable).

Re the stawberry puree - I've made it many times and it always turns out wonderfully. Maybe the batch of frozen berries you bought were particularly bitter (?). You can always add more sugar to the finished puree - the amount Rose suggests in her recipe is a guideline; if you want more, add it! I like Wyler's frozen berries. If you find really nice fresh strawberries, you can use them too, but you'll have to freeze them first, then proceed with the recipe.

Re the buttercream - you're right... meringue buttercreams are not as sweet as powdered sugar/shortening frostings, but most people do prefer the more "sofisticated" flavor and texture of a cooked sugar/meringue based buttercream (high-end bakeries and cake designers rarely use the shortening based variety).

It is perfectly acceptible to use a meringue based buttercream under fondant - whatever you decide to use, just be sure it's a thin layer, because the weight of the fondant (very heavy) will smoosh down the buttercream, especially if it's warm outside. I would strongly suggest you keep the cake inside an air-conditioned space for as long as possible - maybe just present the cake at cutting time.

Another thought for you - if your cake tiers are seperated by pillars, the warm air will be able to circulate around the tiers and make it's temp rise faster. If you stack the tiers together without pillars, the cake will stay cool for a longer period of time.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you need to between now and the big day! We are all eager to give advice. Hope you'll send a photo of the finished cake.

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Thank you Hector I will try that this weekend. Do you have a brand that is a good quality cornstarch?

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Tiffany, compared to the commercial buttercreams, most of Rose's buttercreams are not that sweet! So get used to it!

Rose doesn't use shortening in 'any' recipe. It is lovelly to have any of her buttercreams under fondant, be sure to just spread a thin layer!

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Thank you Tiffany, this is 12-tier Cake(hector), I've been called so many names lately! Try a local restaurant supply store for a CDN or Taylor oven thermometer, maybe Macy's, Sears, or a kitchen boutique store, too. Since you don't have much time, otherwise Amazon.com carries almost all brands of oven thermometers.

Honestly, I would whip a quick recipe of butter cake or pound cake or cake mix in fact, and see if it takes too long or too short to bake set at 'your oven temperature.' There is an explanation on The Cake Bible about how to gauge your oven temperature without using the reading of your oven or your thermometer. Be aware, that most oven thermometers are not accurate, but use them as a reference (one of my Taylor thermometers is off by 30 degrees, but I know this by experience, so I just 're-write' the numbers in my head)

If you absolutely have no time left (I always weight benefits vs available time!) then crank up your oven temperature 25 degrees and don't be afraid to bake much longer time than the recipe indicates. When I baked my 14" Biscuit de Savoie, I actually baked an extra 30 minutes!

And, I always preheat my oven for twice or three times the time that it took once the oven tells you 'it is preheated.' The oven tells you it is heated from reading the ambient temperature, but the actual oven surfaces take much longer to reach that temperature thus the extra time.

Oven temperature is something that takes time to master, and it is done only by experience. It is such critical factor for good baking, so please hang in there and keep baking! Most chefs test new ovens by baking something in it!

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Also, I made the silk merengue buttercream recipe, and it wasn't as sweet as I thought it would be. Are meringue buttercreams not supposed to be as sweet? I'd never made one before, but I read today that I shouldn't use anything but the shortening/powdered sugar concoctions under fondant anyway. I am reading the Cake Bible, but haven't gotten all the way through it yet. I'm learning a lot from this blog, though.

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Yes, it was preheated. Where would I get an oven thermometer? If this is the same Hector as the 12-tier cake, nice work!

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Tiffany, I am so sorry to hear your frustrations. We have been all there!

I highly suspect your baking temperature is too low. Can you make one of your true tested cakes and see how long it takes to bake? If it takes longer than usual then the temperature is too low. You may want to seriously consider picking up a couple of oven thermometer, too. Was your oven preheated?

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Someone please help! I was so excited tonight to find out that Rose has a blog, but then almost cried when I read that Rose is out of town.

I am a VERY new baker who agreed to make my sister's wedding cake for her wedding next Wednesday (Aug 15th) and so I got the Cake Bible, knowing that it would be my foolproof. I am a cake decorator, not a baker, but I've been learning all I can.

I made a test cake (Chocolate Butter Wedding Cake) that was a disaster! She wants a chocolate cake with a vanilla or white chocolate filling and a strawberry filling. (four layers of cake, two layers of white filling, one layer of strawberry.

I used the Rose Factor to make the base cake a 10" cake and I'm positive I did all the math right. I weighed everything. I used Wilton pans (that's all I own) and Wilton Magi-Cake strips (which I've never tried before).

Everything looked okay until the toothpick would not come out clean. It took an extra 15 minutes above the time it said in the recipe. When it was done, I cut it in half horizontally to add the filling and it was super moist but for some reason, really heavy and crumbly (moist but wouldn't stay together and fell apart when I tried stacking the layers.) Was it still underbaked? The toothpick came out clean.

Also, I made the "Lightly Sweetened" Strawberry puree using frozen strawberries and reducing the liquid. It wasn't sweet even after adding the sugar. What did I do wrong?

For the cake, I used softsilk cake flour, dutch processed cocoa from a baking supply store, and turned the cakes halfway through baking. The cake itself was heavenly but wouldn't stay together. My oven is only 6 months old but I don't have a thermometer in it to see if the temp is correct.

Also, can anyone recommend a good white filling? I've heard the whipped ganache recipe is heavenly. Can it be done with white chocolate? Her wedding is outside (Above 90 degree weather). Would it melt? I'm doing Bakels fondant and it's three tiers separated by pillars. I can't have anything melting.

I'm so frustrated because I've got very little time to figure out how to make a delicious, but safe and sterdy cake. What have I gotten myself into?

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LuAnn Lighty, how old is your corn starch? The thickening power of corn starch is inmenselly affected by shelf life storage. Try using a fresh box of corn starch from a high quality brand, and you will notice the difference!

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I am making your 3-Tier Wedding Cheesecake for my sister's wedding Sept. 8, 2007. I decided to do a trial run using the Cordon Rose Cream Cheesecake recipe and have found even using the cornstarch there is a lot of liquid seeping out. I made it with no bottom and with the Biscuit Roulade bottom. I am concerned about the liquid and also how they are going to feed each other. Can you please help me this is my first Wedding Cake.

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Lynne,
I have a few ideas on your post. One reason for what you describe could be too much starter activity. If there is too much acid, it can weaken the gluten structure of the bread, making it spread out. During the warmer months, you might want to cut back on the amount of starter if you want to use the same rising time and have the same flavor development. Read altering the percentage of starter on page 450.
Re: Sour Dough Biscuits, I don't think Rose has a recipe, but coincidentally, I have been reading "The Little House Cookbook." Sour biscuits were apparently a staple on the frontier prairie, and there is a recipe included in the book. It looks to me like they use the starter for moisture, flavoring, and acid to raise the biscuits from chemical leavening (like traditional recipes, not from the yeast in the starter). It looks like they simply replaced the buttermilk with liquid starter. The only technique difference I see is letting the biscuits rest 30 minutes before baking. They also suggest setting out the starter at least 4 hours before beginning. I haven't tried them, but it might give you an idea for experimentation. Also, I think most recipes assume a liquid starter unless otherwise stated.

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A 2 part comment; so many questions with my new sourdough adventure. I created my first sourdough starter and after 10 days baked the Basic recipe. It was very flat but the flavor was good. I'm thinking the dough was too wet? It never reached the "slowly spring back when you gently poke" even after 5 hours and the room was 80 degrees. I didn't have a banneton or a small colander so I used a round paper panetone mold (the cheapest thing I could find) lined with a dishcloth dusted with rice flour.

I now have stiff starter in the fridge. A friend wants sourdough biscuits, and I couldn't find one on your site. When recipes call for sourdough starter on other sites, do they mean liquid or stiff if not specified?How do you incorporate the starter into the biscuit dough, please? I am looking at the Angel Light biscuit recipe, or maybe there is a different one you recommend.
I am enjoying the Bread Bible. It sounds like home. My parents both grew up in NYC, so on visits to the extended family we gorged on rye, bagels, and bialys, plus those black and white cookies I swooned over. Your book is stimulating long forgotten math skills which I thought had turned to brain dust!
Thanks Rose! Hope you had a fabulous trip!

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Have a good holiday/trip! I'll be ready to bombard you with questions about bread when you come back!

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