Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

Lori,

I have both the Bosch (universal) and a KA Professional 600. I burned out the motor in the KA in less than 3 months making bread so that's now a no-no and I use it solely for cakes, meringue and other lighter jobs. I agree with you that the Bosch is great for bread and can easily handle even stiff doughs as far as power is concerned, but it jumps off the counter top and needs to be constantly watched. Also, the bowl on mine is not very large - certainly not 12 qts and can accommodate only about 2kg of dough. So my answer was to purchase a 10 litre Hobart with 2 bowls and I now use it for almost all my bread except small quanitities (knead by hand or use the Bosch). It's also great for larger quantities of cake dough, meringue, cookies, etc. Incindentally Hobart is the commercial branch of KA (or KA is the domestic branch of Hobart) and you can see that the two mixers came out of the same stable. The Hobart is not as pretty but it's a real work-horse! However, I still use the Bosch for small batches of bread and cookies.

Reply to this      Posted by: Annie | May 19, 2008 10:21 AM #

Thank you Rose for the bread bible. I worked for 18 years in a commercial bakery making most breads from scratch. I have not worked in a bakery for almost 5 years and miss it dearly. I came across your book at a local Chapters and to my astonishment it was a signed copy. I clung to it as if for breath. My husband was concerned, confused. He is now quite happy with my purchase. I have just pulled out the most incredible loaf of challah from my oven. 17 inches long and 5 inches high. I sprinkled mine with both sesame and poppy seeds. I'm a baker again, thank you Rose. Denise

Reply to this      Posted by: denise pauco | March 19, 2008 2:57 PM #

I just finished all the comments, and thought perhaps someone should add a comment of years of experience with a Bosch. I'm 47 and first learned how to make bread on my mom's Bosch (she owned it about 4 yrs at the time) when I was 15. My mom's lasted her 25 years before it gave out. She replaced it with another after trying a couple other but took them back and went back to the Bosch which she still has, still reliable, though she doesn't use it neaarly as much as when she made bread for our family of 6 multiple times a week. I love making bread, though I hate cooking in general. There's something satisfying about making bread. I had told her that was all I wanted when I got married, so she got one for me. Twice I put too much flour in the bowl and left to knead, heard a thud and ran to find it on the floor. The first time was using the stainless steel bowl which made about 5-6 loaves at a time, a 12 qt bowl. The bowl was dinged. I hammered out the ding from the inside and I still use it. (Don't know if they still sell that bowl.)The second time did damage to the plastic unit, probably because the smaller bowl didn't protrude as much so the base had the impact. I picked it up, turned it back on and continued to use it till I retired it and got another one about 15 years later to show when I became a small dealer in our little town to for a few years around the 2K scare. By the way I still have my original Bosch and yes it still works great. (Though admittedly since my family has grown and I've gotten older I don't use it like I did before using it 2-3 times per week.) Years ago I saw a demo with an Artisan Kitchen Aid making bread and was told the dough had to be removed and kneaded when all the flour was in or the engine would burn out. I don't know about the bigger model, a 6 qt size, they make now but it has 575 watts and unless they've changed the Bosch (the larger one) it has/had 700 watts. I don't know of any other company who has as many years of success in bread mixing (and I mean the heavy whole wheat flour which is all I ever used for bread after grinding it myself in my grinder) than the Bosch. I hear the Kitchen Aid can't be beat for the other baking mixing jobs but for bread I doubt if Bosch can be beat.

Reply to this      Posted by: Lori | March 18, 2008 9:32 PM #

I agree, and remember a comment re: the Cuisinart's attachments been low not making full use of the 7 qt bowl. On my 6 qt KA, I can load the bowl to the rim and sometimes even an inch higher. I know it isn't manufacturer's approved and perhaps it affects the cake structure, but sometimes I even crank the handle to lower the bowl a bit, specially when overflowing, so the attachment reaches the top of the bowl; you can't do this on a tilt head.

The one thing I would appreciate on the large 7 qt bowl of the Cuisinart, is that even if not fully usable for capacity, the taller bowl helps prevent splashes. It looks like the 7 qt bowl of the Cuisinart is very similar in shape to the 5 qt KA Artisan tilt head. Tall, narrow, and with a sharp end on the bottom of the bowl. This shape is my favorite when mixing butter, sugar, yolks, flour, etc, stages that don't require aeration. Ingredients fall back in much faster.

Regarding the timer, it is a good feature, specially for commercial environment when you bake the same thing daily and repeatedly, or if you were writing a book or testing recipes. Most larger commercial mixers come with a timer. But for the typical home user who prefers to bake assorted and new things, I don't see how the timer will help much.

Shall you decide on the KA 6qt, you are going to love having 2 KAs, and now we can be closer to twins!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 12, 2008 1:38 PM #

Hi Hector - the bowl is huge... I've looked at this model at my kitchen store, I really like the timer feature, but I keep thinking of the comment someone made about the fact that the attachments go way down into the bowl (much lower than the bowl rim), so I'm thinking it might not be the best option for meringues and cake batters. I'll probably get a 6qt (and still hold on to my 5qt for larger projects).

Reply to this      Posted by: Patrincia | February 12, 2008 1:22 PM #

Patrincia, did you see Rose using the Cuisinart 7 qt mixer on the video? I am tempted! The bowl looks HUGE, or is Rose a tiny woman?

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | February 12, 2008 1:15 PM #

Too late for me on the Kenwood; if I had known the auction was still up I would have bid for sure! Instead I bought a professional (univex 8-quart standing mixer). I really need something large to handle the volume I bake (typically three cakes per order). The univex has no problem with power but I don't love the design. It was the best I could do at trying to keep the purchase in the 3-figure range.

Reply to this      Posted by: LC R | January 29, 2008 5:46 PM #

Thanks Hector. I checked with KA Canada and they don't sell refurbished units. So I guess I have to buy a brand new one.

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | January 28, 2008 9:40 PM #

Hi Rozzane. Amazon.com in the USA. You can also order direct from KA, free shipping.

I have 2 refurbished units, unless you look at the serial number under the mixer stand, which starts with an R for refurbished, I can't tell that the unit wasn't bough as new! Warranty is 6 months instead of 12 months.

I've read that KA brings back to "new" all their refurbished mixers, including cosmetics. This is specially true for the KA mixers because these are assembled and painted at their one factory in the USA.

Refurbished units do not include the pouring shield, which is useless in any case for the Artisan.

I don't have any experience with refurbished appliances, other than KA stand mixers.

I've had both units for about 3 years, one unit ran thru my Hawaii Way cake.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 28, 2008 3:39 PM #

Hector, where did you get your refurbished mixer from? I am so skeptical about getting refurbished items. How long have you had it for and does it work well?

Reply to this      Posted by: Rozanne | January 28, 2008 3:29 PM #

Kathy, thanks for reporting this. Hope you all don't get tired of my -same old- comment: "get two 5-qt KA Artisans in beautiful colors, refurbished for less than $150 each, and you will be able to knead 2x2.5lb of flour!"

You get 2 sets of bowls, beaters, etc, etc. You get 2 power hubs for attachments... how about one for rolling pasta and the other for cutting the pasta.

Yes, more countertop space.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 28, 2008 2:45 PM #

To respond to the requests for opinions or comments on the Viking 7qt- I have it and while I love it for large batches of things (cookies cakes, frostings), I am sad to report that it could not handle 5lbs of flour for a Portuguese sweet bread recipe I have. The good news is that it has an automatic shut off … so I did not blow out the motor.

Reply to this      Posted by: Kathy | January 28, 2008 2:25 PM #

I just bough a kenwood mixer -KMM760 (1200W- 7 qt). I try to make cake but fail. What is the speed used to cream butter and sugar? Can someone help me. TQ.

Reply to this      Posted by: LINA | January 22, 2008 8:39 AM #

I've worked with Hobarts before and know how great they are. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Hobart mixer no matter where I buy it--I've seen how much they cost even at auction. And I don't have the space for one either. And finally, I need something quickly, and don't have time to sit through a lot of auctions.

For multiple mixers, it just doesn't seem worth it. If I need to make a batch of batter, I can't see spreading it out among three machines--it would just be that much more measuring which is time I want to save, by having a larger machine.

I'm really wondering now if I should go with the DeLonghi after all.

Thanks everyone who answered my post so quickly.

Reply to this      Posted by: LC R | January 17, 2008 8:15 PM #

LCR: I have noted this before, may I suggest you get a few KA mixers instead of just one big 10 qt? It is cost effective, and having several mixers, even smaller, is very practical than just one big mixer.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 17, 2008 3:12 PM #

no wonder, the kenwood, delonghi, rival, cuisinart, and viking looks so similar!

great tip on getting a Hobart from a bankrupted bakery =(

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 17, 2008 3:10 PM #

LCR:
Good afternoon. DELONGHI the Italian firm bought out Kenwood of England. The Delonghi is the same machine as the old Kenwood/Rival logo. The differance being they added about 10% maybe 15% more Watts to the motor.
I heard that Delonghi corp also manu. the cruisnart mixer & the Viking machine on contract for these firms. I am only mentioning the rumor.
Anyway, see if you can buy a older model HOBART with a 10 & 20 quart capacity. Just look for Lawyer firms that deal in bankrupty & ask if they are handling any bakeries/restaurant firms. That is where you can get info if they are going to auction any Hobert mixers soon,& ete.
Good luck & enjoy the rest of the day.

~CASS/LAS VEGAS.

Reply to this      Posted by: CASS/LAS VEGAS | January 17, 2008 1:02 PM #

I'm all mixed up about these mixers.

I'm about to embark on some serious baking for my home-based business. Well, to clarify, I've been baking for a while but now the quantity is increasing substantially. I need to upgrade to a much larger bowl, although a 10-quart bench mixer is too expensive.

So I'm trying to find a good quality 7- or 8-quart mixer. I was leaning toward the Electrolux, but I don't do breads, just cakes and cookies and pastries. So then I was contemplating the Viking or the Cuisinart, but both have pretty mixed reviews out there.

I missed the auction for this Kenwood mixer, and I can't find a Kenwood mixer anywhere online, nor a Rival one either. Everything points me to the DeLonghi. Is the DeLonghi the new Kenwood?

Anyone have a serious suggestion for me??

Thank you.

Reply to this      Posted by: LC R | January 17, 2008 12:47 PM #

Bosch or Electrolux Magic Mill - which one do you prefer for mixing yeast dough - 5lbs of flour ??

Reply to this      Posted by: Nancy55 | January 13, 2008 8:26 PM #

My 6Q Kitchen Aid couldn't handle 5lbs of flour for challah - I was thinking of the Viking 7qt. Any advice or suggestions about the Viking 7qt.

Thanks,

Reply to this      Posted by: Nancy55 | January 6, 2008 9:30 PM #

My 6Q Kitchen Aid couldn't handle 5lbs of flour for challah - I was thinking of the Viking 7qt. Any advice or suggestions about the Viking 7qt.

Thanks,

Reply to this      Posted by: Nancy55 | January 6, 2008 9:29 PM #

My 6Q Kitchen Aid couldn't handle 5lbs of flour for challah - I was thinking of the Viking 7qt. Any advice or suggestions about the Viking 7qt.

Thanks,

Reply to this      Posted by: Nancy55 | January 6, 2008 9:29 PM #

BETH:
Good afternoon to you. Thank you for your timely responce, I enjoyed reading your post. Beth,It isn't that I do not think the assistent creams very well...I think that the planetary type mixer is superior to the spiral type for that operation. Of course Beth we all have our opinions & we express them based on our experience. And I am happy to hear about your past experiences with this contraption. Sooo, I will remember your experience & perhaps sometime in the future I will give the "Assistent" another try...just to be fair.
Enjoy the week-end young lady.

~CASS/LAS VEGAS.

Reply to this      Posted by: CASS/LAS VEGAS | January 5, 2008 3:15 PM #

I own a KA Pro, an Electrolux Magic Mill and a Bosch. I love each of them as each has its own strengths.

Cass doesn't think the Magic Mill creams butter very well, but I LOVE it for creaming butter. The trick is that the butter has to be soft as it does not do well with cold hard butter. It does a better job with Cream Cheese when it is soft, too.

The Magic Mill makes the smoothest cookie and cake batters I have ever worked with. It incorporates ingredients in a lovely way. It takes a little longer than a KA, but I think I get a much better product, including cookie dough. My shortbread cookies come out much more tender and flakey when I make them in the Magic Mill.

Like Cass, when it comes to whipping, I use my KA. For a long time I used the Bosch for bread doughs, now I make smaller batches and use a Zo bread machine for kneading.

Isn't it GREAT that we have so many choices these days???

Reply to this      Posted by: Beth | January 4, 2008 9:53 PM #

Babs, something didn't go right in the address the -owners comes after the word Mixer. I am going to try again for you.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mixer-owners

~CASS

Reply to this      Posted by: CASS/LAS VEGAS | January 4, 2008 12:01 PM #

BABS:
Good morning to you. Yes I am happy to comply Babs. GO TO:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mixer
-owners

Enjoy the rest of the day Babs.

~CASS/LAS VEGAS.

Reply to this      Posted by: CASS/LAS VEGAS | January 4, 2008 11:55 AM #

Cass and Hector, thanks for all the info. Cass, can you please tell me that website or chat-room or whatever it's called where people discuss the Magic Mill. Thank you so much. (and thanks for calling me a "young lady")!!!

Reply to this      Posted by: Babs | January 3, 2008 3:26 PM #

CORRECTION, it is all my opinion, no quotes here. For Rose's review please refer to The Bread Bible, or to pink sections on this blog.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 3, 2008 1:47 PM #

Yes, the Electrolux Magic Mill is rated better for larger amounts of bread dough than the Kitchen Aid.

Rose reviews both on The Bread Bible.

The KitchenAid stand mixer works a little differently than the Electrolux. The Electrolux has a center axle principle or a scrape and paddle mechanism which is fantastic for dough. The KitchenAid has the planetary action which is fantastic for whipping.

For whipping eggs, creaming butter, the KitchenAid is best.

For bread dough, the Electrolux is best, but it is justified mostly when you make large batches of dough. The KitchenAid handles dough perfectly, within the volume limits.

It is unfair to compare the KitchenAid against the Electrolux, or vice versa, if your subject is whipping eggs, creaming butter, or vs kneading large volumes of dough. Each of these subjects will turn to one favorite bias.

My ideal solution is to have the KitchenAid, you can't live without it if you need to whip eggs, meringue, buttercreams, whipping cream, creaming, cookie dough, and such. And to have the Electrolux if you need to knead multiple bread recipes. HOWEVER, it is now preferred (as Rose has reviewed), to use the Zorijushi bread machine, to knead bread, because it handles dough so gently, but up to a limited volume, too.

I have 3 KitchenAids (one Pro600, and 2 Artisans). I would not mind getting a Bosch Universal, built in concept series, because of the countertop-less design, but I think it is discontinued! The Bosch is similar to the Electrolux.

Whenever I make lots of bread, I have all my KitchenAids running at the same time. It is wonderful, just don't forget the ear plugs.

The Kenwood mixer is comparable to the KitchenAid. For many even better!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | January 3, 2008 1:42 PM #

BABS:
Yes Babs I own & use a Elect. Assistent
(Magic Mill) that is the old name. Same machine however. It is a spiral mixer as opposed to the standard type which is known as a planetary style mixer. The spiral type is a more efficient mixer for yeasted lean or rich doughs than the planetary type. It develops the flour gluten quicker as well it just takes 8, minutes as opposed to 10, minutes everything being equal. However Babs I must also tell you this, It isn't easy to learn how to use it efficiently. It took me about 20 times of use before I managed to use it properly. My problem was I wasn't applying the correct RPM I was too low.
Babs my very strong opinion is that this machine isn't as efficient as a planetary type mixer for creaming & whipping. So I use my 7,qt Kenwood mixer for that excercise.

Babs, it is true that Cook's Ill. magazine didn't approve of this style of mixer but that is because they didn't know how to use it properly. In fact there is a computer website club that the members just converse about the use of this machine & the members learn tricks from each other. I do not belong to it however.
Babs, I hope this info will help you to make the correct decision for youself.
Enjoy the rest of the day young lady.

~CASS.

Reply to this      Posted by: CASS/LAS VEGAS | January 3, 2008 1:24 PM #

Has anyone had any experience with the Bosch mixer?? Thanks

Reply to this      Posted by: kathleen O'Rourke | January 3, 2008 10:50 AM #

For what it's worth, Cooks Illustrated hated the Electrolux magic mill in their reviews. It apparently couldn't cream butter very well (got the worst rating for that). They didn't even think it was so great for bread.

We just borrowed a KA Pro 600 from somebody to test it out, and it seemed to labor as much as our old KA Classic that has a dead motor. It didn't give the impression of being any more powerful. (My wife was constantly afraid we were going to kill it before we were ready to return it to its owner.)

Reply to this      Posted by: Adrian | January 3, 2008 7:34 AM #

Here is the link to the Magic Mill mixer which is made by Electrolux (yes, the vacuum people).

http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/magic_mill_dlx_mixer.aspx

Reply to this      Posted by: Babs | January 3, 2008 5:29 AM #

There is another mixer out there called I think a Magic Mill. Supposed to be great especially for mixing bread dough - and it can handle a tremendous amount of dough at one time. I'll get more details, but with all this discussion about mixers, maybe someone has this already and would like to give their opinion.

Reply to this      Posted by: Babs | January 3, 2008 5:17 AM #