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Book Production Phase 7 Pre Design Meeting
Yesterday,in the pouring rain I delivered the 780 page copy edited manuscript . As there were no taxi’s to be found (there never are when you really need them) I walked the one mile to my friend Maury Rubin’s City Bakery, wheeling the manuscript in my new Magellan carryon bag that I thought to be waterproof. Much to my horror I discovered that the zipper component is not as the edges of the manuscript got wet. But Rebecca, Pam’s wonderful assistant, assured me it got to NJ safely (and dry) later in the afternoon. I also brought slices of a flourless chocolate and walnut cake glazed with apricot lekvar (from the upcoming book) which managed to stay dry and perfect since I carried them upright all the way in an airtight tupperware container! Lesson learned—always put the precious manuscript in plastic bags and trust nothing else to be waterproof.
We all discussed the look, design, and size of the book and I learned that Alison, the designer, had done what’s referred to as a cast-off which gives a sense of projected book pages based on the present design. Again to my horror I discovered we are presently 42 pages over.
On my return home last night I spent several hours deliberating which if any recipes could be cut and conferred with Woody who reminded me of a 12 1/4 manuscript page recipe that might be sacrificed. Thankfully I heard back from Pam, my beloved editor, this morning that she LOVES the recipe and doesn’t want to cut it. We will try to find our solution through design. The one thing upon which I was insistent was not to reduce the size of the font in the ingredient charts or for recipe instruction. That’s where it’s essential to see clearly and easily.
I was thrilled with the ideas coming from Pam, Ava, and Rebecca who commented at one point: “It takes a whole village…” Yes, we are all on the same page, the process is thrilling, and all want the best of all possible outcomes for our cherished book. But I can tell you that caring so much about anything extracts a huge toll no doubt reflected in today’s headache!
Our next meeting will be a planning session for our last round of photography that will take place the last two weeks of July. August the galleys will come so I can check that all the changes from copyediting were input correctly. If Woody can come from MN for the week I will read to him from the copy edited pages while he checks the galley pages. If not, it will have to be a tape recorder and then I’ll have to play it back against the pages…a long, tedious, but extremely necessary process which will (hopefully) ensure error free recipes.I just found out today that the Cake Bible is about to go into it’s 43 printing! That certainly validates the effort.
Meantime, for those of you who are interested in following the progress of the book production process I think you will enjoy seeing the notes of yesterday’s meeting compiled by Rebecca.
Notes from Meeting with Rose, Pam, and Ava 5/20/08
Color Palate
- Experiment with using the pale salmon color less (not using it for Highlights for Success sidebars, for instance)
-Experiment with another color to use in addition to the pale salmon (Rose would like to see a pale lavender)
Chapter Openers
- Will play around with the chapter opener chapter titles and the frames around them
- The chapter openers will go to one page if Alison agrees that it works
- Do not like the chapter opener with the vertical stripes (too trendy)
Sidebar Highlights
- Will try a different color
- Need some kind of element to ground the hints-- perhaps a type treatment at the beginning of each one. No bullets.
-Give the sidebars a notebook feel, like Rose’s personal notebook
Page count issues
- Will explore decreasing the leading in the body text
-Ingredients and equipment chapters could be in a double column or smaller font-- discuss with Alison
- Cheesecakes and Flourless Cakes stay together
- Tighter spaces between gridlines in ingredient grids
- Process shots can be smaller
- Line can increase by 1 pt
- Captions for process shots will just be one line
- Do not reduce beauty shot size unless Alison feels it is appropriate for that shot/recipe
- Can put shot at end of recipe instead of beginning if it saves space and is appropriate
- Chapter openers will go to one page
Other Photo Issues
- Need to decide which process shots are truly essential
- Rose wants to add a personal element-- hands, etc.
Other Issues
- Ingredients list: for recipes that require a different number of yolks and whites, we will use a colon after eggs.
- Running heads: Rose’s Heavenly Cakes vs. Heavenly Cakes
- No more changing of recipe titles
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Comments
I did not know that. Thanks for sharing. Already a payoff from finding this blog!
Reply to this Posted by: Stephen Tiano | June 18, 2008 6:12 PM #
You are right about four colour process Stephen but just to be picky the 'K' in CMYK stands for Kohl (Black).
Reply to this Posted by: Cate | June 18, 2008 6:08 PM #
Four color does not refer to the paper used. Rather it refers to how colors are made up by the use of the four colors Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and blacK, That's why the system is referred to as CMYK.
Reply to this Posted by: Stephen Tiano, Book Designer | June 17, 2008 9:32 PM #
Yes, thank you Rose for explaining the four colour concept. I'll buy the book regardless of colour or design. I'm sure the others on this blog will to.
Reply to this Posted by: Rozanne | June 2, 2008 9:32 PM #
I'm sure it will be too. Thanks for clarifying for those of us who are NOT "in the know".
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | June 2, 2008 9:08 PM #
essentially 4 color means glossy heavy stock for every page and color photos throughout the book, not just in what they call signatures of 8, i.e. the photo of the cake can be right with the recipe.
oh i just see hector answered this!
it's not actually salmon--if they go with that color, but more a ballet pink and very subtle--just for the charts. anyway, we have a great designer so i'm sure it will be beautiful.
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | June 2, 2008 9:06 PM #
four color book means the book will be in FULL color. in print you need only 3 or 4 colors, to make up the primaries, and THAT gives you full color.
i think Rose's Heavenly Cake will look stunning, regardless if salmon or tuna!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | June 2, 2008 9:00 PM #
Rose - please define "four color book"... how does that differ from your other books? I have to agree that the color salmon for a baking book doesn't leave much to be desired in my imagination... but I'll wait and see before I make up my mind for sure. Needless to say, I'll love the book even if it had no color at all.
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | June 2, 2008 8:50 PM #
thank you katherine for your sweet note!
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | June 2, 2008 7:27 PM #
thank you sally. yes i agree, the bread bible is very much to my taste. but this will be a four color book so lots lots more photos and also the use of color to make the charts stand out better. ben fink's photos are really fantastic and that will indeed be the main element of the book on beautiful heavy weight paper!
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | June 2, 2008 7:13 PM #
Re: Colours for your new book
I think it would be a mistake to use salmon and lavendar if you want to attract younger bakers to your book. I love the design of the Bread Bible (lots of gorgeous photo's and simple sophisticated colour palette). The other books look a little dated and would not catch my eye given the plethora of gorgeous cookbooks around today. That would be a shame as I think your recipes are fantastic and would love for my generation (I'm in my twenties) to discover your wonderful recipes and advice as we don't learn to bake from our mothers or grandmothers anymore. I also tend to agree about the ingredients and utensils section being rather superfluous to the needs of most people who will buy your book. You could always give links to something like this on your website if people were really interested. What we want in a book is something that we can't get online, lots of gorgeous photo's, beautiful (preferably recycled) paper to touch and inspire us to bake.
Best of luck,
Sally
Reply to this Posted by: Sally | June 2, 2008 7:04 PM #
Dear Ms. Rose:
I have The Cake Bible, The Pie and Pastry Bible and The Bread Bible. Whatever the title of your next book would be, I predict that the contents are very informative to us novice bakers. Please don't worry much about the title as long the author is Ms. Rose Beranbaum.
Reply to this Posted by: Katherine See | June 2, 2008 7:11 AM #
Yep, Amazon sometimes gets outdated info. I am sure it will be corrected.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 30, 2008 1:39 PM #
Hi Rose,
In case you don't know, your new book is also up on Amazon in the UK now. It does say that the publishing date is Sept 2008, but unfortunately some of us know differently. I do hope we will get it here at the same time as in the US or I for one will DIE of anticipation.
Reply to this Posted by: Annie | May 30, 2008 1:36 PM #
you are an absolute doll! i can't believe i actually shared that $1 fantasy--i must really be losing it! and i look forward to seeing your blog--just as soon as i catch up--as you can see it's almost 2 am here!
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 27, 2008 12:42 AM #
Rose:
I posted your tip about how to ensure a fancy Bundt cake's intricate designs won't be lost when the cake is released. I also posted a host of tips on the same subject from the kind people at Nordic Ware. You may check the post, "The Perfect Bundt Cake" on my blog, swedishbaker.blogspot.com. I have also included a link to your site and a recommendation for your books.
Looking foward to your next book's release. Will send you $1 so you won't have to move if Elliott retires!
Kindest regards,
Laura Stokes-Gray
swedishbaker.blogspot.com
Reply to this Posted by: Laura Stokes-Gray | May 27, 2008 12:07 AM #
It would be nice to have the DVD with the book. I don't know how feasible it would be but is it possible to have the book available with and without the DVD? Or is it a silly idea on my part? Just my two cents worth........
The online version is a great idea too but definitely (as Hector mentioned) "high quality (large size and clear) and DOWNLOADABLE."
Either way we need to/want to see you on screen Rose!
Reply to this Posted by: Rozanne | May 26, 2008 4:29 PM #
I also vote for higher quality videos to be available! Perhaps some smart person at the publisher could figure out how to offer both a big, high-quality version for download, and a smaller, fuzzy version for those who are impatient or have slow connections.
Many, many thanks, Rose, for all the work you are putting into this book! Thank you for sharing the process with us.
Reply to this Posted by: Barbara A. | May 26, 2008 3:51 PM #
I think we just NEED to make sure we can see Rose =) in any way possible in a video!
I am asking Rose to make her videos on the internet of high quality (large size and clear) and DOWNLOADABLE. Yes, it will take longer to view than any youtube fuzzy movie, but been downloadable you can ask a friend to download the movies for you and put them on DVD or on your ipod!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 26, 2008 1:31 PM #
that's exactly what i was wondering--the dialups! though i think more and more cable and other options are becoming available affordably and they certainly make internet life a lot more enjoyable.
thanks for your input--i'll share it with the powers that be!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 26, 2008 10:43 AM #
Actually, I think having the demos available online is a great idea - doing so will surely save the consumer some money when purchasing the book, and the online demos would probably encourage those who don't own the book to purchase it.
It would also be nice to have the option to purchase a dvd of the demos (for those who have limited uploading capabilities, dial-up, etc).
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 26, 2008 10:35 AM #
i think it will bc packaging with the book presents many problems. can you see any problem with having it available on line that perhaps i could address ie circumvent?
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 26, 2008 10:19 AM #
Is the online demo going to replace the dvd?
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 25, 2008 8:12 PM #
i extremely doubt that we will cut anything bc we all feel everything is valuable and essential so one way or another you'll all get all the info plus an online demo of techniques!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 25, 2008 8:34 AM #
I think the editor should not cut any pages. I, for one, would be willing to pay more for a longer cookbook. If, however, the editor insists on cutting the extra 42, could you post them on the internet to be accessed by those of us who bought the book?
Reply to this Posted by: Christine S. | May 24, 2008 11:44 PM #
the title IS going to be rose's heavenly cakes we're just talking about the running footer which comes on the bottom of each page.but thanks for the input--i'm glad you all agree with me to make it more personal!
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 24, 2008 1:56 PM #
I like 'Rose's Heavenly Cakes', too. It feels more personal than just 'Heavenly Cakes'. :-)
Reply to this Posted by: Kate | May 24, 2008 10:36 AM #
Can I weigh in here - I have 2 comments:
1 - Re Rose's Heavenly Cakes vs. Heavenly Cakes... it would be nice to stay consistant with Rose's Celebrations, Rose's Melting Pot, and Rose's Christmas Cookies.
2 - PLEEEEEEEASE don't even consider for one moment cutting the wedding cake section - that would be tragic!!!!!
Matthew - I love your comment about the new book being "the new testament" - very funny!
Reply to this Posted by: Patrincia | May 24, 2008 2:54 AM #
don't worry--the pen is mightier than the sword or something like that!
and don't worry about ingredients and equipment--editor and production editor vetoed eliminating them! (whew!) but it was worth considering.
Reply to this Posted by: Rose Levy Beranbaum | May 23, 2008 6:24 PM #
agreed with Bill.
regarding security men, cake can change their security level!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 23, 2008 1:14 PM #
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Please don't remove the section on ingredients and equipment. There are always little tidbits to be found. I'm pretty experienced, but clearly not a professional baker. I've made about 2/3 of the recipies in The Cake Bible, and have baked my way through part of the Pie and Pastry Bible and I still refer to those sections.
Rose, thanks for sharing the notes from your meeting...it's really interesting to see how the process goes.
And, since I think I'm the blogger who is geographically closest to you,(Midtown), I've taken the liberty of speaking with my doorman Edgar...he can arrange for any extra security that you may need (I taught at NYU for many years...I know what their security can be like lol)...after all, you are the Rock Star of the cake world...you can never be too careful.
Reply to this Posted by: Bill | May 23, 2008 12:34 PM #
First of all THANK YOU Rose for your incredible dedication to this book (and all the others too!) and for all the care and attention you show to us here on the blog. Regarding removing the 'ingredients and equipment' section, I can see how this would save space and/or could form a companion volume however I vote for it staying! Whilst those like Rozanne and others who are experienced professional bakers may not use this section, the homebakers like me who are not in the US, this section is critical. Sometimes a description and line drawn picture is so useful when trying to figure out the differences in other countries' nomenclature!
Reply to this Posted by: Cate | May 22, 2008 11:35 PM #
WOW, I verify it listed in Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Roses-Heavenly-Cakes-Rose-Beranbaum/dp/0471781738/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211493091&sr=8-5
sign up and lets see how many advance orders drizzle in.
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 22, 2008 4:55 PM #
Julie-
We could be buddies! I had a goal of working my way through all three Bibles as sort of my own baking and pastry program!
I was going to start with TCB because I am making wedding cakes now and want to have many cakes in my repetoire, not just the few that I like to make over and over. :)
Thant will help us wait for the new book...
Reply to this Posted by: Rachel | May 22, 2008 12:37 PM #
julie, this is a mammoth production as you can see if you follow all parts of the production process i've been posting.
short story: the book ships to the printer in china next april so pub date is fall of 09.
you could do worse than work your way through the cake bible! it will prepare you for all the exciting new things in heavenly cakes.
believe me i'm as impatient as all of you to get the book into your hands and hear your feed back on all the cakes i've been working on for years now!
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 22, 2008 10:35 AM #
Rose, could you please update us with the expected date of release for your new book? I checked Amazon, and they have it listed as August 2008, yet the word on this site seems to be Fall of 2009.
I may have to do something drastic if it is indeed another year, like set a goal of trying everything in TCB from now until then... anything to distract me during the wait!
Best,
Julie
Reply to this Posted by: Julie | May 22, 2008 10:24 AM #
i live in an nyu building and they do indeed have a security guard!!! plus i feed all the doormen and handymen cake....
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 10:05 PM #
OMG Hector, I always dream of visiting Rose's home and checking out her equipment and brand of ingredients, but I didn't dare post it for fear that Rose might think I was crazy and actually have security outside her house. Now, that you said it, I guess we can both be classified as crazy. Safety in numbers.........Although you might beat me to it.
Reply to this Posted by: Rozanne | May 21, 2008 10:03 PM #
Roxanne, I agree with you and Matthew. But let me tell you, specially for the equipment section: having photos and descriptions of Rose's gear is so nice to look at and informative. YES, Rose can/may/should have a different book or supplement just for that.
In fact, I have told myself that when I am in New York, I will invite myself to Rose's home and steal at least 100 pictures of her equipment and post them on the blog!
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 21, 2008 9:28 PM #
matthew i went into the spam folder and marked two of yours not spam but there's no guarantee it's going to "learn" to best to put in your e-mail or you could try one more time to see if it lands in spam again.
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 9:10 PM #
I agree whole heartedly with Matthew!
Reply to this Posted by: Rozanne | May 21, 2008 8:45 PM #
I have a different take Roxanne, actually I use those sections all the time, especially when I am buying ingredients/equipment. I've found them invaluable, plus I think it is a Rose signature--not something you find in many books. Also, I think there are always a wide range of skill levels in all of Rose's books--things for the beginner to the adventurous--I bet this book won't be an exception.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | May 21, 2008 7:42 PM #
matthew--that works--to put in your e-mail address in seems to work. if it is held up it could be bc the subject line stikes the spam filter as questionable which is weird but at least i can get those and post them.
roxanne tht's a very very interesting concept--i'll run it by the production crew! thank you all for your suggestions.
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 7:37 PM #
Rose,
Regarding the page number issue...Is it really necessary to have a section on ingredients and equipment?
Honestly, these sections tend to be very large in your books and I never read them. I don't need to as I am a very experienced baker and don't need that information.
This book is being written and produced for die hard cake bakers--not newbies (and I would never give this book to a novice baker).
Thinking outside the box here...Why not significantly shrink down this section or eliminate it from the book. Instead of putting it in the book, for those who need/want that information, it can be made via download from this blog--either for free or for a small fee.
Rather than seeing recipes cut or your dialog/intro for recipes being cut, I'd rather see a section I never refer to being eliminated from the printed version.
What do you all think?
Reply to this Posted by: Roxanne | May 21, 2008 7:06 PM #
Also, I think when you open the spam folder, there is a "not spam" button at the top so that you can mark an item so that it won't be filtered in the future.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | May 21, 2008 7:04 PM #
Thanks for the heads up, but I haven't done anything differently as far as posting for a while. I stopped adding my email address several months ago because everytime I included it, it would say my post was withheld for review. I tried adding it again to this post to see if that makes a difference.
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | May 21, 2008 7:00 PM #
thank you hector for pointing out the spam possibility. yes--it's landing in spam. but i can't check spam as i get 100's a week!
matthew, if you put your name on the posting i think it will come through. it comes through as rose since it doesn't have your name on it.
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 5:50 PM #
the comment from matthew and previous comments from him are not appearing in g-mail so i don't know they are there until responding to someone else's in the thread. can you please investigate this?
thanks,
rose
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 5:19 PM #
matthew for some strange reason your postings aren't appearing in my gmail so i only see them when responding to someone else's. is there anything you can do on your end to change that?
books are bound in signatures of 16. essentially the book is priced according to cost so to enlarge it could mean increasing the price. i'm sure there are all sort of concerns and evaluations i'm not privy to and i'm sure there are some compromise positions on all sides! too large a book is too heavy and difficult to work from and i do want nice thick paper where you can't see the writing through it from the other side!
this book will be very different form the cake bible--it would be like naming two brothers hector one and hector two!!! or hector too?!
in one rash and desperate moment i suggested cutting the wedding cake chapter and then realized there'd be bloggers out there ready to take out a contract....
Reply to this Posted by: rose levy beranbaum | May 21, 2008 5:16 PM #
Matthew, I was going to suggest that title, too!
I think the page limit is determined by the logistics: machinery, packaging, contract, etc. A handful of pages more would mean millions of pages more since I expect this book to print SO MANY copies!
Rose, how about you delete a chapter or small section, and make it available online only?
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 21, 2008 4:51 PM #
Is it somewhat like a "New Testament," isn't it Hector?
How is the page limit determined? I assume there is a physical limit in terms of binding--is this the source of your limit, or is it a price limit?
Reply to this Posted by: Matthew | May 21, 2008 4:21 PM #
Name the book to better match the monumental effort and size:
The Cake Bible II
Reply to this Posted by: Hector | May 21, 2008 4:13 PM #