Real Baking with Rose Levy Beranbaum

it is 6 am and just started one for NY eve! starter neds to be active which means left at room temp from freshly fed until it starts to rise (about 4 hours), or on the 3rd or so day from fed and stored on the fridge. Read the feeding schedule on Bread Bible and when and for how long to leave it at room temp and refrigerated according to when you want to make bread.

But I tell you that it does not matter, you can use freshly fed right away or up to 1 week old, your 16 hour bread rise will be longer or shorter accordingly.

The key is to let bread rise for near 3 times its volume. No stone, no ice, there will be minimum oven spring and the crust is unremarkable. But you make bread! painlessly and truly great tasting.

Again, just checked my notes: 10 gr salt, 214 water, 428 fluor, 50 starter.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | December 31, 2008 10:21 AM #

Good morning, Hector...just read your post and am anxious to try this. But, I do have some questions. Does the starter need to be at room temperature? Should I refresh it today and put it in the fridge for a few days? Is it considered active without refreshing it?...I haven't fed it for over a week. Start in a COLD oven? On a stone? Any ice? Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | December 31, 2008 10:05 AM #

that is great sherry, now try this for a simplied sourdough bread baked on a loaf pan and perfect for slicing.

50 to 100 grams of active stiff starter, 400 grams better for bread flour, 200 grams water, 10 grams salt. dissolve salt in water, knead in fluor, add starter and knead. shape the dough and place on a standard non stick loaf pan. rise, covered for near 16 hours until tripled in volume and prior dome receading. bake at 400 to 475oF, NOT prehated oven till done! can't get any easier than this ad the taste is there!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | December 29, 2008 11:26 AM #

Thank you again for your help, Hector. My breads all turned out great. The only difference I noticed was that they didn't rise quite as high. You're right...it is always delicious!

Happy New Year to you!

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | December 26, 2008 10:41 AM #

sherry, my recommendation is to just go for it either way you can. don't let the bread slave you. two things could happen: you get a dense bread or you get a wet spongy one. you can make wet bread slices into the most delicious grilled or toasted bread! for dense there is the most wonderful bread crumbs.

for sourdough bread baking, you are the boss and with short experimentation you will write your own recipe that best suits your taste and you schedule.

it is a very personal and natural bread because the starter is unique depending onwhere it lives, but always delicious.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | December 24, 2008 1:24 AM #

Oh, one more question...I wasn't able to finish two loaves of my sourdough bread. The two batches that are left are at the end of step 2 stage. They will have exceeded their 20 hrs. of refrigeration by the time I get to them in the morning. Should I start over with refreshing them or can I go ahead and continue to mix and bake?
Thanks again.

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | December 24, 2008 1:07 AM #

I wonder how my sourdough bread would turn out if I skipped the business letter turns. I am on step 4 and just put the dough in to rise...it's almost 11:00 p.m. and, I'm tired! I'll probably set my alarm since I can't see getting an answer in the next half hour, but would like to know for future reference.
Thanks.

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | December 24, 2008 12:48 AM #

Dear Rose: Thank you for answer me about the discard dough, its a great idea to make the pizza, I will do that. No more dough in the garbage!!!!! and I will try the boiling little balls for soup. I just hated to throw it away. My sourdough's name is blanquita because it was always white and clean, but not strong enough yet... Im on it though. Thanks again, Lucky

Reply to this      Posted by: Lucky | December 1, 2008 7:52 AM #

in general, think in volume rather than hours. When the starter has just reached double volume then it is on the most active state, the prefered state for bread dough making.

doubling happens usually in 6 hours, or as long as 24 hours, depending how active the starter was when started!

doubling can take up to 1 week if it is in the refrigerator!

I have starter everywhere and at various point of activity. Some refrigerated, some frozen, some at friends houses, some at work, some on my office desk. Some across half the pacific, across the americas, and all the atlantic.

I don't discard any starter, it makes great pizza crust, flat bread, or even great when boiled in little balls and part of a soup or pasta dish! it is also great as glue for paper, repair nativity clay or paper mache pieces, etc!

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | November 17, 2008 11:32 AM #

Thank you!

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | November 17, 2008 9:40 AM #

Good Morning, Rose...Thanks for your advice on the Low-Risk Bread. I have made the Basic Sourdough many times and love it and the only reason I was trying the other was because something happened to my stiff sourdough starter. I think I might have fed it too much at one time to try and make several loaves at once and it didn't raise very well and was practically odorless, so I threw it all out. My liquid starter is from a friend and my stiff starter was one I had made from San Francisco starter ordered online. I do want to try and get that one going again. I have been freezing little pieces of it for other breads so I took 50 gr. of frozen...let it thaw, and fed it 50 gr. flour and 25 water as usual. It had not doubled in 6 hrs. so I left it out all night and this morning it has doubled. I'm looking at your instructions on reviving a neglected starter on pg. 438. Do I continue to leave it at room temp. for 24 hrs. and feed it again?...or should I refrigerate it and take it out again when the 24 hrs. are past and repeat that until it can double in 6-8 hrs.?

Thanks again!

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | November 17, 2008 8:53 AM #

Hello,

I'm hoping to bake sourdough bread with my liquid starter and am looking at the Low-Risk sourdough bread recipe. It calls for Pain de Campagne starter, which I don't have. Can I use my liquid starter and do I still add the yeast to the dough? I refreshed my starter at mid-day yesterday...poured half out and fed again at 9:00 p.m. and let it set in the dark oven overnight. This morning it was bubbly, but was still at the same level as when I started last night. I fed it again four hrs. ago with 2 1/2 c. water and 3 c. bread flour and it is rising and smells nice. I noticed the recipe calls for cold starter if using the mixer method. Can I use it at room temperature or will it get too hot? Is it better to use the starter at its peak or does it matter as long as it is well fed?

Thanks!

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | November 13, 2008 1:02 PM #

From Luca:

so.... the basic sourdough bread is superior to my basic heart bread converted into sourdough.

It's softer, and milder. It's airy and fluffy, with a nice crispy crust.
It's also way more complicated! I ended up using a home-made banneton (colander, lined with tea towel).

So I am probably going to try and make that for a while, but:
1- I am going to double the recipe to make a larger bread
2- I am going to make it on a loaf pan, and not free form it

I am very surprised by the fact that it's a lot milder than my bread.
This obviously comes from the fact that it uses 25 grams of started. My recipe used 240 grams!!!

The timing is very complicated. It's like this:
1- 25 grams expanded to 75grams, wait 6 hours
2- discard, keep 50, expand to 50, wait 6 hours
3- mix dough, wait 20 minutes, add starter, wait 1 hour, deflate/fold, wait 1 hour, deflate/fold, wait 5 hours
4- shape, wait 4 hours
5- bake
So.. it's a 23 hours, but without a 12 hours period in the middle where you can sleep!

The only possibility is that you can refrigerate after phase 2, up to 20 hours So here is the possible schedule:
Day1: wake up, do step 1, go to work
Day1: come home for lunch, do step 2, go to work
Day1: come back from work, put starter in the fridge at 6pm Day2:go home for early lunch! at 11. Do phase 3. Will take until 1.30pm
Day2: come home do phase 4.. wait until 10pm
Day2: bake.. and go to bed.
!!!

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | October 15, 2008 7:47 PM #

Hector...thanks for your reply. I already had the bread in the oven by the time I read your reply, but it turned out great. The hole on top just looked like a wide open mouth singing the "cooling song". :-) I used a 4.75 qt. d.o. since it was a large loaf of bread. I set it in the pot with the parchment still around it...seemed easier that way, but would sure rather leave it off since it's so expensive. I had read another idea about putting brown paper in the bottom of the pot so I did that and it helped with the overbrowning. It was a little too brown on the top...maybe I baked it too long? I preheated oven to 475 deg. and after five minutes turned it down to 450...left the lid on for 20 min. then baked 20 min. more with lid off. I used Gold Medal bread flour.

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | July 11, 2008 4:21 PM #

i get bubbles all the time, no worries, just tells you things are active. aren't they beautiful?

use a small 2 qt d.o. so pot sides helps bread rise up. it is nature of sourdough to spread sideways.

parchment is great and perfect, but what expensive. if your d.o. is seasoned cast iron non enamel then use no parchment... if it sticks a little let baked bread cool in the pot and it will sweat and detach magically.

if using parchment, final rise is done on it. i like to line a bowl with parchment so it helps dough spread upwards.

what flour are you using? some give you a wet/spongy bread but this is perfect for toasts and paninis.

oh, yes you can reshape and rerise again and actually many many times or for ever! add 1/3 or so of fresh flour-water-salt at same proportions of recipe each time starter has been exhausted which is when it has doubled 2 or 3 times since the last time you added fresh flour mix or when the last rise got so slow.

Reply to this      Posted by: hector | July 11, 2008 12:13 PM #

Help! I'm making a double recipe of basic sourdough. I put the shaped loaf in the fridge last night and when I took it out this morning there is a hole in the top. It is just the outer skin that is open and is about an inch deep. Should I re-shape it? Right now I have it in a bread basket hoping it will rise up and not out. I want to bake it in my dutch oven. Do I put it in upside down or just set it in...parchment and all? Thanks for anyone's help.

Reply to this      Posted by: sherry | July 11, 2008 10:02 AM #

Danielle, lesson learned, never let anyone touch such precious item, live with it, travel with it, sleep with it.

But I would do, is keep feeding it, it can recover.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | June 17, 2008 7:16 PM #

I have had a sourdough starter for the past 2 years, recently another person feed it and from what i can come up with they used extremly hot water! The starter has developed a pinkish orange skin on the top and is developing a different odor. Is my starter done for or is there a way I could save it???

Reply to this      Posted by: Danielle | June 17, 2008 7:10 PM #

I have had a sourdough starter for the past 2 years, recently another person feed it and from what i can come up with they used extremly hot water! The starter has developed a pinkish orange skin on the top and is developing a different odor. Is my starter done for or is there a way I could save it???

Reply to this      Posted by: Danielle | June 17, 2008 7:09 PM #

Jen, beautiful photos and even more beautiful bread and kitchen!

I need to report that I have just switched to Gold Medal unbl Bread Flour (aka King Harvest Better for Bread). Luca is been getting great results.

Normally available in 10 lb bags or most commonly in 5 lb bags at grocery stores. If you bake bread once a week, a 10 lb bag is ideal and goes quickly.

You can find 4 pack 10 lb bags at restaurant supply stores, get them! Double or triple wrap each bag with stretch-tite to keep them airtight, bug free, and as fresh as possible w/o taking freezer space! The flour bag that I am using, I store in the refrigerator or freezer in airtight containers, or just in my pantry if I use the flour within 1 or 2 months. Always wait until the flour has reached room temperature before opening a refrigerated/frozen flour, this avoids humidity rushing in.

Reply to this      Posted by: Hector | May 20, 2008 1:16 PM #

Hi Rose, I've recently discovered you and your amazing book. I just wanted to share a post I did on your book:

http://freshcrackedpepper.com/2008/05/18/journey-through-the-book-of-bread-i/

Thanks so much for your great work!

Reply to this      Posted by: Jen | May 18, 2008 1:11 PM #