Hi, I’m a girl from Italy who really loves Rose’s cakes…
I tried her whisper cake and I think it’s gorgeous, but I had a problem with it...It crumbles…
I made small cupcakes that I had to eat with a teaspoon because they split in crumbles...Is this normal? Or the problem is about cupcakes size?
I’d like to use the recipe to make bigger cakes…

Mika,

Are you located in Italy and using Italian flour?  The butter cakes are designed for bleached cake flour and don’t work well with european unbleached flours.  If you search “Kate flour” on this site, you’ll see a discussion of this problem and a way of heat-treating european flour in a microwave to mimic the more open structure of unbleached flour. 

Or, it could be insufficient mixing.  If your mixer is hand-held or less powerful than a Kitchen Aid or DeLonghi, you might need to increase beating times. 

You could also try some of the sponge-type cakes and see if they fare any better with your flour. 

Good Luck!
Julie

Yes, I live in Italy and I’m using italian 00 flour, not a professional one...and I didn’t think that the type of flour used was so important…
The other cakes I tried were gorgeous, but now I think It’s possible they can be more gorgeous using “kate flour"…
I will try it and I will try to increase the beating time too...infact the crumbly texture is a problem I only had with this cake…
Thanks a million for your suggestions…

Ciao Mika, can you try Italian flour for cakes (budinos)?  I am curious how it works for Rose’s cakes.

Ciao!!!
I want to be sure I understood your question...Should I try some Rose’s cakes and post a picture of the result?
I will do this, just let me know which cake or cakes ^_^

Molto carina Mika.  Mi amico Luca Rizzi di Padova le piage molto Golden Luxury Butter Cake.  Page 48.  But do it only if you can find “real” white chocolate (I am sure you will, one that has cocoa butter in it and not just milk and sugar).  I thought him how to do it and he likes it a lot.  He lives in the USA with me. 

When I went to visit Luca’s parents in Schio, I noticed about 0 and 00 flour.  I think 0 is for bread and 00 for cakes, I can’t remember.  I think I saw one that said 0 (or 00) for cakes, for budino.  Try this one.  Look at recipes in Italy that is for cake with flour, butter, and baking powder, look what flour they use.  And tell me since I forgot.

Other recipes you can try is the All-Ocassion Downy Yellow Butter Cake (page 39) or the chocolate version called Perfect All-American Chocolate Butter Cake (page 54).  These are the traditional USA cakes.  The article on Kate’s Flour is very interesting.

I love making Biscuit de Savoie, specially when using Amaretto in the syrup, and filled and frosted with Caramel Silk Meringue Buttercream.  Look at the article on Copper Topper cake.

good luck, Ettore.

Mika - 08 May 2008 04:26 AM

Hi, I’m a girl from Italy who really loves Rose’s cakes…
I tried her whisper cake and I think it’s gorgeous, but I had a problem with it...It crumbles…
I made small cupcakes that I had to eat with a teaspoon because they split in crumbles...Is this normal? Or the problem is about cupcakes size?
I’d like to use the recipe to make bigger cakes…

Hi Mika,

I always increase the mixing times for Rose’s cakes and I use a Kitchen Aid.  The mixing time I use is more like 2 minutes/45 sec/45 sec/45 sec. I arrived at these times after some research and experimenting. Your results may be different from mine and you may need to experiment. When I use my mixing times the cakes turn out sturdy but still melting.  Nick Malgieri, a renowned chef and author, uses even longer mixing times with his home-size buttercakes (2 min/2 min/2 min) and they turn out very well. I got the idea of increasing mixing times from him.

Also, when I keep the mixing times in the Cake Bible, I usually make the cakes ahead and freeze them for later use. After proper thawing, they are sturdy enough to cut in layers and yet still melting in texture.

Hope these help.

^_^ The difference between 0 flour and 00 flour is about the quantity of ashes in them...more in 0 flour than in 00 one…
Usually pastry chefs use 00 flour to make everything...I have several italian pastry books and they call just for flour, without specifications, because they always mean 00 flour…
I read american pastry books and I discover that there are lots of types of flour that we don’t use…
And it’s difficult to find a pastry shop which sells butter cake...genoise everywhere...and they only use the creaming method…
I already tried those recipes, but I will try them again if you want to see the results using 00 italian flour…

And I’ll try them increasing the mixing time because I suspect I didn’t respect it the last time…
Before Rose’s book and this post I have never thought that mixing time was so important...and flour too...thanks a million...I’m trying o became a pastry chef but all alone because I can’t find a mentor here...Your help is so supportive…

There are some other types of flour for professional baking, biscuit flour, laminated-doughs flour, pate sucrée flour and other types of special mixes, but no book calls for them...I always thought our pastry chefs want to keep their secrets for themselves… ^_^

Hi Mika, in the U.S. flours aren’t usually rated by their ash (mineral) content, but by their protein content. US “cake” flour is low in protein, between 6 and 8% is what I have read. Also, “cake” flour is bleached using chlorine. I have heard that in some countries it is not legal to sell bleached flour. In other countries it can be very hard to find.

However, from what I have read, when you use unbleached flour instead of bleached, the main thing that happens is that the cake may fall or be too dense in middle. You say your cupcakes are too soft and crumbly. That does sound more like a problem with not mixing the batter long enough.

Here’s a link for the “Kate flour” thread on Rose’s blog:
http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2007/11/spinning_unbleached_flour_into.html

Here’s a link for a video and handouts with some information about flour. Try the Crossing the Atlantic and Kate Flour files.
http://www.hectorwong.com/roselevy/ECC/index.html

try reducing the amount of baking powder, also 25 to 50 degrees temp.

cupcakes have less surface tension and more side supports, so it doesn’t need much to rise.  when overrisen it is over tenderizing thus crumbling.