My Sour Cream Butter Cake fell in the middle
Posted: 17 May 2009 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Using the Sour Cream Butter Cake recipe:  Instead of using 4 large egg yolks (which equals 2 full fluid oz), I substituted 1 whole egg because it measured the same 2 full fluid oz.  The batter seemed perfect when I poured it into the springform pan.  I began testing early, around 30 minutes but the pan seemed too jiggly.  So, I checked every 5 minutes.  Probably very close to the 45 minute baking time, I checked with a toothpick and it came out clean—so I removed the cake to cool.  It did not rise to the 1 3/4 inch height; and in fact, it fell quite a lot in the middle.  But, it was a very delicious cake.  I would like to solve this problem for the future.  Does the problem of a shorter cake and fallen cake center lie in the fact that I made the egg substitution (even though the liquid measurement was the same)?  Or, did I need to bake the cake longer?

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Posted: 17 May 2009 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The molecular structure of an egg yolk is different from the molecular structure of an egg white, thus the structure of the cake was affected.  There are cakes that call for egg white only, but if one of Rose’s recipes calls for all yolks, there’s a reason for it. 

I recommend Rose’s Heavenly Cake Strips.  Since I started using them, I haven’t had a single cake that’s domed or cracked.

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Posted: 18 May 2009 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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DRAGONFLY:
  Good morning. I am sorry to learn of yout baking disapointment. Just my amatuer opinion, I do not believe your egg subst. caused your cake failure. I believe it has to do with a structure problem….gluten formation did not occur fully. Why,??? I believe two things will help you get the cake you are seeking. 1) use extra~fine sugar.  2) add another 1, oz of flour. Let us know of your new found suceess in your cake baking.

  Good luck & enjoy the rest of the day.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 18 May 2009 10:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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To sorta hijack the thread, but still regarding this cake:

1)  Any reason why Rose only recommends a springform pan for this, rather than giving the usual choice of a regular cake pan or springform.  (I used the cake pan anyway.)

2)  What frosting would go well with this cake?

Thanks

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Posted: 18 May 2009 11:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Dragonfly, yes to what Maureen said about the egg substitution, and also, opening the oven door every five minutes will prevent the oven from maintaining its temp, and a too-cool oven can also contribute to a fallen cake.

Hello Charles T!
1) My guess is that it’s a carry-over from the sour cream coffee cake, which needs the springform.  How did the cake pan work, OK?
2) Hmmm, my favorite incarnation of this cake is the sour cream coffee cake, even though I normally don’t like coffee cake that much.  But you’ve probably already baked it, right?  I would go with Apricot buttercream (I like mousseline with Rose’s apricot puree and vanilla extract, or the Apricot Silk Meringue).  I haven’t yet tried anything chocolate with this.  Let us know how it turns out!

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Posted: 18 May 2009 11:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Julie - 19 May 2009 02:41 AM

How did the cake pan work, OK?

Not sure.  It didn’t rise well, but I believe that I’m undermixing Rose’s cakes.  I’m still not quite comfortable with the two-stage method and the idea of beating on medium for a couple of minutes after the flour is added sort of freaks me out.  grin  The cake is excessively tender, to the extent that I almost need a spoon.  It cooked a bit faster than the book said, and I’m pretty sure my temp is spot on.  This may be a side effect of the low rise, or the fact that the aluminum cake pans conduct heat better than the steel springform (and the cake pan is shallower, too.)

The cake was only an experiment and didn’t expect it to be perfect.  I think I recall reading here that it makes good cupcakes, and I can’t imagine any other icing than chocolate.  I was hoping that would be your first recommendation.  grin

Thanks

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Posted: 19 May 2009 02:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I would mix a little longer to develop more glutten.  There is very little danger from overmixing with Rose’s 2 stage method on butter cakes.  What was the temperature of the butter?  It should be at room temp but not too soft that it will squash easilly into puddles.

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Posted: 19 May 2009 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Charles, I have made delicious cupcakes with this recipe.  Rose recommends ganache, I think the sour cream one, with this, and I bet it’s great.  I just haven’t yet tried it- perhaps someone else will chime in who has?

You don’t have to be so very careful about overbeating this cake the way you would if it were mixed by the creaming method.  I totally understand your reluctance to beat coming from the creaming method, as cakes get tough very quickly once the flour is added.  But that’s because there is already enough water around to form gluten (from eggs, milk).  In this method the flour is coated by fat (butter and sour cream) first, which prevents too much gluten from forming.  I’m trying to remember, did you make S. Yard’s croissants?  She also coats her bread flour with butter to make them tender.  Rose also uses the method for pie crusts, coating the flour with cream cheese (world’s best crust, in my opinion). 

Anyway, back to the sour cream cake- you can beat it a little longer than the recipe states with no ill effects, and I used to do this regularly when I had a less powerful mixer, it needed more mixing to keep from falling.

For cupcakes, I like a rounded top so I leave the baking powder unchanged and try to fill high enough that they just come up over the rim and “grab on”.

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Posted: 19 May 2009 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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hectorwong - 19 May 2009 05:42 AM

I would mix a little longer to develop more glutten.  There is very little danger from overmixing with Rose’s 2 stage method on butter cakes.  What was the temperature of the butter?  It should be at room temp but not too soft that it will squash easilly into puddles.

I’m sure the butter was fine.  I left it at room temperature, chopped into 1” pieces, for well over an hour.  That’s normally enough to bring it to the 65 degree range.  One advantage of the creaming method is I can throw the butter directly from the fridge into the mixer and beat it at high speed for a few minutes that brings it directly to about 60 degrees.  That’s a great time saver.

Thanks

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Posted: 19 May 2009 10:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Julie - 19 May 2009 12:14 PM

Rose recommends ganache, I think the sour cream one, with this, and I bet it’s great.  I just haven’t yet tried it- perhaps someone else will chime in who has?

Thanks, I’ll keep that one in mind.

In this method the flour is coated by fat (butter and sour cream) first, which prevents too much gluten from forming.

I completely understand the theory behind it, but recipes are still imprecise instruments of communication.  They include the word “about” and “medium”.  Is your “about” the same as MY “about”?  And is YOUR “medium” the same as my medium?  As an engineer, I’d prefer to have a gluten meter that I insert into the batter and just beat the stuff until it’s ready.  grin

I’m trying to remember, did you make S. Yard’s croissants?  She also coats her bread flour with butter to make them tender.  Rose also uses the method for pie crusts, coating the flour with cream cheese (world’s best crust, in my opinion).

You have a good memory.  I actually haven’t made Yard’s croissants yet, but we discussed them.  Shirley Corriher said she thought Yard’s croissants were the best.  (Have you compared Rose’s pie crust with the famous CI vodka pie crust?)

Thanks for the comments!

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Posted: 19 May 2009 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Oooo, a gluten meter, I want one of those!!!  Could you invent one, please?  Would help me tremendously with my efforts to learn bread.  After learning a zillion techniques to limit gluten in cakes, pies and pastries, I’m having a hard time shifting gears to get enough for some breads.  Luckily, my family doesnn’t seem to mind “depth charge” bread.

I know what you mean by tems like “medium”, in Rose’s later books (Bread Bible) and I hope in her new cake tome coming out in Sept, she specifies Kitchen Aid speeds.  In the Bread Bible, “medium” seems to be a 4, though I have beaten her butter cakes on 5 with lovely results.  You know you’ve found the right speed/time when the cake bakes up flat when cooled.

I started Rose’s croissants last night, should be ready later this week.  They are quite different from Yard’s in style, as far as I can tell from the recipe- Rose’s are lighter and Yard’s seem to incorporate as much butter as is humanly possible.

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Posted: 03 June 2009 05:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I usually make the sour cream butter cake using 2 whole eggs as opposed to yolks.. Sometimes (not always) it falls and/or shrinks.. I rarely make 1x the recipe.. I have made up to 4x the recipe.. I never have a problem (even with 4x) when I bake the cake in a sheet pan (as in 12x16 pan 1inch tall) only when I make it in rounds or squares.. i was also looking at TCB about the rose factor for butter cakes, but like in a different thread, it mentioned that this particular cake has powder and soda and milk instead of sour cream..

I can’t really tell if it is the mixing or the leavening that is giving me the problem.

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Posted: 16 October 2009 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Very nice thread. I like the discussion here. It gives me ideas and I’ll learn a lot of things from here. Keep it up guys. I’ll be booking this thread up to be updated.I love baking…..

Good day..


zackdwat
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