Oven temp for 12x18 cakes-commercial convection oven
Posted: 09 July 2017 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi.  I’m new to this forum and in looking through the pages, I am unable to find the answer to my question.  We bake 12x18 inch cakes in a commercial convection oven and have found them to be very dense and heavy.  Out of fear of over cooking the outside, the baker bakes the cakes at 200-250*.  They don’t dome, require no trimming, but are hard on the outside and too dense.  What do you recommend assuming that there is nothing wrong with the recipe or the oven?

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Posted: 09 July 2017 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Lentil45 - 09 July 2017 11:09 AM

Hi.  I’m new to this forum and in looking through the pages, I am unable to find the answer to my question.  We bake 12x18 inch cakes in a commercial convection oven and have found them to be very dense and heavy.  Out of fear of over cooking the outside, the baker bakes the cakes at 200-250*.  They don’t dome, require no trimming, but are hard on the outside and too dense.  What do you recommend assuming that there is nothing wrong with the recipe or the oven?


  LENTIL45:
  Good morning to you & welcome to our Baking Forum. Lentil In general cakes baked in larger pans like you are using as opposed to regular sized such as 8 or 9 in round are baked at 360 degrees for 35, minutes.  (NO CONV HT. used)

  Lentil I do think this information I am going to post to you will really help you solve your problem. WHY!!!! because your problem is with the oven temp. (assuming the oven temp is accurate) It is with one of the following.

1) Un~balanced recipe

2) If you en~larged a cake recipe from a smaller recipe then the Chemical leaveners must be calculated… YES!!! but & however NOT in ratio & proportion like ALL other ingredients. In some case depending on height as well the leaveners will vary greatly.


3RD) Baking at such a low temp. in my strong opinion is the gluten in the flour is not being fully developed… A most heavy cake.

  I believe that is your problem most likely…low baking oven temp. You see Lentil it is the baking powder & steam from the hydration that will make for a lighter baked product. steam cannot be generated at such a low temp.

Anyway feel free to post your recipe so we can scrutinize it for proper balance to baking science dictates.

  I hope this info helps you make the correct decision for yourself. 

  Enjoy the rest of the day Lentil.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 09 July 2017 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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You really should not bake cakes in a convection oven; it dries out the top of the cakes too quickly and produces the symptoms you describe. If you have no choice, perhaps you can put some sort of dome over the cake for most of the baking time. Foil might work, but you’d need to ensure the cake won’t hit the foil.

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Posted: 09 July 2017 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thank you, Freshkid.  I’ll post the recipe after I get to work tomorrow.  I suspect you’re right about the steam and evaporation, but it wouldn’t hurt to have a look at the recipe.

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Posted: 09 July 2017 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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CharlesT - 09 July 2017 01:57 PM

You really should not bake cakes in a convection oven; it dries out the top of the cakes too quickly and produces the symptoms you describe. If you have no choice, perhaps you can put some sort of dome over the cake for most of the baking time. Foil might work, but you’d need to ensure the cake won’t hit the foil.

Most places I know use a convection oven for baking cakes.  We’ll give the conv oven a try.  Thanks.

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Posted: 09 July 2017 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Lentil45 - 09 July 2017 11:09 AM

Hi.  I’m new to this forum and in looking through the pages, I am unable to find the answer to my question.  We bake 12x18 inch cakes in a commercial convection oven and have found them to be very dense and heavy.  Out of fear of over cooking the outside, the baker bakes the cakes at 200-250*.  They don’t dome, require no trimming, but are hard on the outside and too dense.  What do you recommend assuming that there is nothing wrong with the recipe or the oven?

Commercial bakeries routinely use convection ovens for cake and cupcakes.  However some recipes aren’t suited to convection ovens

Check to make sure the oven is calibrated correctly.


Reduce your temperature by 25 degrees and, if you have a fan control, turn your fan down to low.


250 is actually too low for cake. The tough dry crust is a combination of long bake time at too low a temperature.  Start by reducing the temperature 25° lower than your recipe states


The dense interior could be mixing issue:

If you’re using a creaming method, cream at a lower speed. Whipping air in too fast will cause a dense crumb.


If you’re using the high ratio method make sure you’re mixing at low speed and check your ratios:


Sugar weight should be equal or slightly more than the flour


Liquid, including eggs, should equal the weight of the flour.


The eggs and the fat should be of equal weight.


Make sure you beat the eggs into the liquids well, then add liquid in three additions to ensure eggs are properly incorporated into flour mixture


Flour type will affect crumb. A high ratio cake flour produces a much lighter cake. If you’re using an all purpose flour check the protein and ash content. Too high in protein and ash will produce a denser crumb, darker in color.


Until you know for sure the actual bake time for your specific recipe in your specific oven, start checking for doneness at least 10 minutes before your recipe’s stated bake time. Until you establish the ideal temperature and bake time you’re going to have to babysit your cakes during those final minutes.


The general rule with cake in convection is reduce the temperature 25° lower than the temperature you would bake in non-convection and turn the fan to low.


It’s not uncommon to have to run a couple of tests to find the sweet spot for your specific recipes and your specific oven.


If you have a high ratio of egg protein to flour, such as a chiffon cake, then turn off the convection. The excessive heat sets the protein too fast.

Really wet batters and delicate doughs also do not bake well with the convection ovens. The fan blows the batter sideways as it rises, so product ends up being lopsided on top.

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Posted: 10 July 2017 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Here is the recipe we use for the lemon cake.  I am posting the original because we usually just x3 or x4 depending on need. 
3c cake flour
2.5 t baking powder
1c butter
1.75c sugar
4 large eggs
2t grated lemon zest
1/4c lemon juice
2/3c milk

the usual cream butter, add sugar, add eggs one at a time…..  mix dry combine.

What is the consensus of you pastry chefs?
Thanks in advance!

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Posted: 10 July 2017 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Lentil45 - 10 July 2017 08:36 AM

Here is the recipe we use for the lemon cake.  I am posting the original because we usually just x3 or x4 depending on need. 
3c cake flour
2.5 t baking powder
1c butter
1.75c sugar
4 large eggs
2t grated lemon zest
1/4c lemon juice
2/3c milk

the usual cream butter, add sugar, add eggs one at a time…..  mix dry combine.

What is the consensus of you pastry chefs?
Thanks in advance!

  GOOD MORNING LENTIL45;
  Thank you for your timely response. I scrutinized the posted recipe. I feel that it is balanced. I will post my opinions now to make a better baked product.

  I would “CONSIDER” reducing the sugar by 2.5,oz approx 5,TBLS & adding 2.5, oz honey right after creaming the butter/sugar sequence. This addition will make your cake not dry out too soon, & provide added moisture to your baked product as well as good taste.

  Lentil, this recipe can withhold 1, added yolk as an option if you wish…. your choice

  Lentil, in creaming the butter, the butter temp should be 65/67 degrees that is considered optimum in beginning the creaming stage. consider creaming at a slower speed for min. of 7, minutes… it may take slightly longer but not much.

  Lentil, I notice that this recipe has omitted the salt…Consider employing a salted butter.  Lentil, notice the recipe contains a very acdicic ingredient, LEMON JUICE. I would consider adding 1/8th tsp of baking soda to neutrilize the acidity otherwise your baked product will have a OFF~TASTING taste when eating same.

  Lentil my last thought to you in adjusting this recipe to a larger pan the chemical leaveners are not the same arithmetic
proportion . I am not certain of the formula but it is written in the CAKE BIBLE TOWARD THE END OF THE BOOK.

  Good luck Lentil & I hope you will post back your results.

  Enjoy the rest of the day my friend.

  ~FRESHKID.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted: 10 July 2017 11:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Lentil45 - 10 July 2017 08:36 AM

Here is the recipe we use for the lemon cake.  I am posting the original because we usually just x3 or x4 depending on need. 
3c cake flour
2.5 t baking powder
1c butter
1.75c sugar
4 large eggs
2t grated lemon zest
1/4c lemon juice
2/3c milk

the usual cream butter, add sugar, add eggs one at a time…..  mix dry combine.

What is the consensus of you pastry chefs?
Thanks in advance!

To be honest your results will always be spotty and mediocre with this recipe.  You are applying home baking methods to commercial production.

1. Commercial bakers use weight, not volume to measure ingredients. Baking is all science. The ratios of flour to all other ingredients is critical to the quality of your product.  The weight of each ingredient is different. A cup of cake flour is not 8 ounces. A cup of cake flour is 4 ounce. A cup of sugar is not 8 ounces, it’s 7 ounces. When you use measuring cups, you can unintentionally put up to 20% more in the cup, depending on how you fill the cup.  When you use a scale, you can be accurate every time to the gram.  This is how commercial bakeries produce consistency.  It’s quality control.

2. Commercial production requires baker’s percentages.  The use of baker’s percentages keeps the ratio of flour to all the other ingredients consistent no matter how much you increase or decrease the recipe.  Since every ingredient has a different weight, when you triple or quadruple the recipe, the ratios become more and more skewed. The leavening is most adversely impacted when you increase using measuring cups.  If you go into a commercial bakery, you won’t find recipes. They use formulas. Flour is 100%. Everything is based on the weight of flour being 100%.  That way no matter how much the batter is increased or decreased and no matter who walks into the kitchen to mix the batter or dough, every batch will be exactly the same.

3. Commercial cake flour is not the same as cake flour sold in grocery stores.  Commercial cake flour is heat treated and bleached. These treatments change the gluten structure and starch gelatination rates. The flour will rise considerably more and produce a very light delicate crumb.  Since your working in a commercial bakery, I’m assuming you’re sourcing from a distributor and not buying cake flour from the grocery store.  To achieve the results that commercial cake flour is milled to produce, you have to use the correct mixing method and the correct fats.  Commercial cake flour is designed for use with high ratio shortening, mixed with the high ratio or two step method, not the creaming method.

4. Commercial cake flour has a different hydration rate. In addition to using the correct fat and mixing method, you have to adjust the hydration. 

5. If you’re using commercial cake flour, and you want to use all butter, then adding a commercial emulsifier to your batter can improve the crumb. Ask your distributor to provide you with a sample to test.

 

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