WHITE SANDWICH BREAD
Posted: 10 August 2017 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I have baked a fair amount of Rose’s White bread and have no intention of even trying another. lol

I notice crumb that is very fine textured 1/4” in from edge of loaf part way up each side and across the bottom. Although it doesn’t taste as though it is of higher moisture content, that is how it appears.

I use the “Starter” from Rose’s book and follow directions carefully. I have varied leaving the starter about 4 hours at room temperature to overnight in the fridge. Doesn’t seem to make any difference.

Honey, no sugar. Water warmed to 75 to 80 degrees. Dry milk plus instant yeast. Bake in conventional oven at 350 degrees taking 45 to 50 minutes to achieve an internal temperature of 205 to 210 degrees.

I do place a small pan with maybe as much as a cup full of ice under a cookie sheet which the loaves rest on. Everything else about the loaf is near perfection. The problem noted above “Bugs” me.

Anyone have an idea why this is happening? Should I quit using the ice/moisture inside the oven? Am using King Arthur All Purpose flour and unsalted butter. Salt per recipe.

ferg

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Posted: 10 August 2017 05:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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FERG - 10 August 2017 12:49 PM

I have baked a fair amount of Rose’s White bread and have no intention of even trying another. lol

I notice crumb that is very fine textured 1/4” in from edge of loaf part way up each side and across the bottom. Although it doesn’t taste as though it is of higher moisture content, that is how it appears.

I use the “Starter” from Rose’s book and follow directions carefully. I have varied leaving the starter about 4 hours at room temperature to overnight in the fridge. Doesn’t seem to make any difference.

Honey, no sugar. Water warmed to 75 to 80 degrees. Dry milk plus instant yeast. Bake in conventional oven at 350 degrees taking 45 to 50 minutes to achieve an internal temperature of 205 to 210 degrees.

I do place a small pan with maybe as much as a cup full of ice under a cookie sheet which the loaves rest on. Everything else about the loaf is near perfection. The problem noted above “Bugs” me.

Anyone have an idea why this is happening? Should I quit using the ice/moisture inside the oven? Am using King Arthur All Purpose flour and unsalted butter. Salt per recipe.

ferg


  FERG:
    Good afternoon. Sorry to learn of your baking disappointment. Ferg, I believe I know why your baked product has a un~baked appearance at the bottom of your yeasted bread loaf.

  Judging from your description only…see next to last paragraph….  a cup of ice under a cookie sheet which the loaves rest on.

  I believe Ferg it is this condition, the ice is causing the bottom of the bread heat not to reach it’s intended oven temp…it is a deterrent for the temp to get to 350 degrees.

  Now then Ferg if in the event you re~bake this recipe & you do not correct this aforementioned condition & you still have the same problem…re~post the condition & I will provide you with the 2 other reasons your baked product suffers from excessive moisture in the bottom area.
I rather not post now it is too much work for a 86 year old man these days. Also my friend post your modified recipe ete that will help much.

  Enjoy the rest of the day Ferg.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 10 August 2017 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I know your feeling. I will be 84 come January.

Ferg

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Posted: 13 August 2017 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I baked another two loaves today with the same results. I did not use the ice cubes in the oven. I probably won’t bake another batch for at least a week.

When I do, I am going to try a little less water in the recipe. Only problem with that is, I like the somewhat sticky dough and have absolutely no problem working with it. I use a Kitchen Aid mixer.

I did add about four tablespoons of additional flour to the mix.

I use pans that are non-stick a light brown color. Use either butter to grease them or spray with butter spray. Forgot to take a photo of a slice this afternoon, will do that later. I weigh all my ingredients and follow Rose’s recipe and instructions to a “T”.

Today’s bread is very soft, not doughy, delicious as always. We had Bacon and Tomato sandwiches the other day, delicious and so refreshing.

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Posted: 13 August 2017 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Okay….
I am posting a photo of what the bread looks like. This “baking” is worse than past efforts. The area that appears “soggy” is on the edges that are inside the bottom and sides of the pans. I bake to 207-208 internal temperature. Perhaps I am not baking long enough. This loaf slumped some on the sides, I have not had that happen before. Maybe I should push it closer to 210-215 degrees. The pans are OXO and are actually more of a gold brown color.

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Posted: 14 August 2017 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I think you are overcrowding/overproofing. As the dough rises the weight of the dough and the expansion of the center crushes the outer layers against the side of the pan. Ideally you want the proofing to end just as the dough comes in contact with the sides of the pan. This effect happens more with soft breads. You could try decreasing the dough in each pan and/or shortening your proofing.

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Posted: 14 August 2017 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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FERG - 13 August 2017 09:49 PM

Okay….
I am posting a photo of what the bread looks like. This “baking” is worse than past efforts. The area that appears “soggy” is on the edges that are inside the bottom and sides of the pans. I bake to 207-208 internal temperature. Perhaps I am not baking long enough. This loaf slumped some on the sides, I have not had that happen before. Maybe I should push it closer to 210-215 degrees. The pans are OXO and are actually more of a gold brown color.
[/quote

  FERG:
  Good morning.  I believe I have solved your problem. You see Ferg 85/90% of all yeasted baking disappointments revolve around the
“GLUTEN” not being “fully” development. At first being that I didn’t have the recipe at hand I could not understand this development you are having. I have that book but it was packed away as I am moving to a home assisted living at the end of this month. I found the book & I studied the recipe.

  Here are my thoughts on this recipe & your dilemma. The gluten is developed but only suffiently to coagulate (Not fully) WHY !!
because the BUTTER (FAT) is coating the gluten strands while mixing prohibiting them to being fully hydrated together with the hydration to form 100% gluten development. By the way olive oil does the same thing.

  Ferg, what you need to do is employ this trick.  In a kitchen aid mixer, gluten is fully developed in 10, minutes time at speed #2 most often. Sooo after mixing for about 4/5, minutes, SLOWLY, pour the melted butter in to the bowl & continue till done. This way the gluten is given a chance to form properly first… without interference from the addition of the fat. You can always knead by hand to your hearts delight after mixing for 10, minutes..

  One more thing Ferg   baking further than a internal temp of 205 Degrees is not going to solve any bread baking problem. 190/200 is sufficient. Rye bread sometimes require 205 degrees.

  One more thing Ferg. If I was baking this recipe I know that for 1.5 tsp of yeast I would not employ no more than 1 75 to 2, tsp of table salt. 2,1/4 tsp is excessive… I know that it is!!!.

I hope this info helps you. I am sure you will solve this problem as you seem to be a good & knowledgeable baker. Good luck & enjoy the day my friend.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 14 August 2017 09:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I have thought the portion for the salt was a little much so until this last batch I had done more like 1 1/2 tsp. Rose has done so much research and development with bread baking, I hate to mess with her recipes or instructions.

I know there are many things in bread baking that become variables. The additional salt I used this time may have exacerbated my results.

We have been eating Bacon and Tomato sandwiches often so that uses a lot of bread. I may have to find time to bake this weekend. lol

I will try FRESHKID’S “Butter Method” and post the result.

Ferg

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Posted: 19 August 2017 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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YEP!!! I’m back!!!

Baked two loaves of Rose’s bread yesterday following the suggestions “FRESHKID” gave me. With one additional of my own.

Used 1 1/2 tsp. of salt, melted the nine tablespoons of butter, and used 1 1/2 oz. less water since humidity in our kitchen was resting at 60%, outside was around 75%. Temperature in kitchen was 72 degrees F.

Withholding the butter for four minutes resulted in the dough coming together almost immediately. That changed as soon as I began dribbling the melted butter into the dough, the mixer was turning slowly.

Appeared to be too oily/greasy from the butter for a few minutes. I had flour canister sitting close by if I needed it. At about six minutes of mixing the dough began coming together again, seven minutes it was ready to stop kneading.

Dough wasn’t as shiny as I would have liked plus it seemed heavy which wasn’t true when I weighed it. Only required 45 minutes for first and second Rise to double. Third rise in the pans required a little longer to achieve one inch above the sides of pans. Oven rise was about half what I normally achieve which was a little disappointing. Baked to 207 internal degrees in 35 minutes with oven on standard not convection.

Loaves are better than before but still not where I wish them to be. What I call the “soggy” edge is only about 1/8” where it was 1/4” or more before. The edge also feels a little tough to me. Top of my loaves are normally at least 2 1/2” to 3” above edge of pans after baking with a very soft crumb. This bread is not a real soft crumb.

Next loaves I bake I am going to play with the butter a little. I may just keep it at room temperature and mix in half of it to begin with then after four or five minutes the other half. Don’t want to do too many things different all at once.

May try using all of the butter at room temperature after four minutes another time.

Hope my experience helps some folks with their baking bread.

Ferg

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