Sourdough
Posted: 22 December 2007 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I have been told that some commercial bakers use vinegar instead of sourdough starter for their sourdough breads. Do you know if this is true? Would the addition of a bit of vinegar to my dough make it a little more sour. Is it safe?
Harold

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Posted: 23 December 2007 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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HAROLD:
  Good evening to you Harold. Harold, I will assume that in your last sentence you are employing a sourdough culture in your dough. Your question is by mixing in my dough some vinegar will it make my yeasted lean bread dough extra sour????.
  Harold if that is your inquiry we must take a page out of Baking Science. Vinegar, as you know Harold is very acidic. In fact some bakers add a little of it to their pie pastry. They do it because vinegar inhibits gluten from forming which as we both know is a negative for pie pastry. As you can see, by adding vinegar to your dough it will add to the acidity & inhibit the function of the yeast
which is to make carbon dioxide gases (CO-2).
It will also cause the gluten to swell with water somewhat & you will end up with a brick.
  Harold I hope this information will guide in making the best decision for yourself.  “HAPPY HOLIDAYS”.

  ~FRESHKID> cool hmm

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Posted: 23 December 2007 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Freshkid,
Thank you very much; you have saved me from disaster.
Harold

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Posted: 30 December 2007 05:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Harold, Rose adds vinegar to some of her bread recipes, so I think it would be perfectly fine to experiment adding it to your recipe.  You won’t be adding enough to adversely affect the gluten of the bread.  Check some of the recipes in the BB for ideas on the amount to use.

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Posted: 30 December 2007 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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One more thing, I’ve noticed that King Arthur sells citric acid (sour salt) for adding to bread to make it more sour.  I have never tried it, but it might be what you are looking for.

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Posted: 31 December 2007 02:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Thank you. I thought that I had seen the addition of vinegar in the BB, but I forgot where. I will experiment with one tablespoon in my next sour rye, in the mixing of the dough.

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Posted: 31 December 2007 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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HAROLD;
Good morning. It is good to hear from you once again. I thought I would mention to you that Miss Rose does employ some apple cider vinegar in her yeasted lean bread dough recipes. Harold so do I… 100% of the time. However Harold, remember you asked about the merits of the use of vinegar in"SOURDOUGH” style of bread. Not a recipe with Baker’s yeast. As you know Harold there is a differance. Let us hear about your experiments in this. I encourage you to do experiments in baking that is how I learned much about baking science. When I am in the kitchen baking the trash can is not far behind me.
  Good luck Harold & Happy New Year to you.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 31 December 2007 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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FRESHKID
  Pleasse clear me up on a couple of points in your last missle:

What do you mean by “yeasted lean bread dough recipes”? Do you mean that you always add vinegar to all your yeast dough bread recipes?
In “sourdough” recipes I always add a little yeast to quicken up the rising time, as MS Rose describes in the BB. 

Also, have you ever made sourdough DILL rye bread? No caraway. I was told it was very good, however I have had two opinions from others: Do you use dill dried leaves or dill seed? Another experiment for me!

Regards,
Harold

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Posted: 31 December 2007 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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HAROLD;
  Thankyou for your quick reply. A yeasted lean bread dough is a recipe that has “NO FATS” such as many eggs, various cheese ingredients & butter &
ete. & employs store-bought yeast.. Yeasted rich dough such as brioche & some coffee cake recipes like that are known as yeasted rich dough recipes.
  Harold these terms are formal terms meaning they are used in prof baking between bakers that are learned via a culinary college
education. But not so important for us home type bakers.

  Yes Harold I employ a little vinegar in all of my yeasted lean bread recipes & including mashed potatoes & its ‘cooking water.
If interested Miss Rose explores these ingredients & it’s parameters in her book the Bread Bible.

Yes Harold I do bake Dill rye once in a while as well as onion rye. I do use dry dill seed. Harold it is a recipe using store bought yeast not a sourdough recipe variety.  Harold I must ask…Why NO carraway seed???. If your interested there is a ingredient called Ground Carraway. I use it I buy it thru the catalog houses.

Harold keep us posted of your bread baking experiments. We all enjoy reading success stories.

Happy New Year Harold.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 31 December 2007 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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HI FRESHKID,
By NO CARAWAY I meant dill instead of caraway. I dont think I would like both in the same bread. Also, why not add the dill seed instead of caraway in the sourdough rye?
I will checkk out my BB for the other ingredients you mention.

Thanks again
Harold

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