1 of 2
1
absolutely the best Yellow Cake
Posted: 27 July 2009 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Jeanne , and anybody else, I wanted your input. With all due respect to Rose, I (and my 3 cake testers) have settled on the Carol Walter’s Yellow Cake for the yellow Wedding cake layers. I made the recipe in a 12x2inch round pan and it came out fine. The recipe calls for 1 tablespoon baking powder. I’m just so surprised that it came out as well as it did using that amount, considering how much more Rose requires. The recipes are very similar, except Carol uses 3 cups cake flour vs. 4, a little less milk, and 4 whole eggs. I want to use this recipe for a 12, 10, 8 and 6 inch cake. I know I’ve asked this many different times , but do you think given that this recipe works in a 12 inch pan, and according to Carol will work in assorted other pans, do I have to change the baking powder amounts? According to Rose, this cake should not have worked in the 12 inch because she would have used much more baking powder. The only reason I’m going crazy with this recipe is that it truly was in our opinion more flavorful than Rose’s.  I also spoke to Amy from Amy’s Bread, and she said Carol’s recipe was the one they based their Yellow Cake recipe on.  Tried that one but it was too heavy and sweet. Thanks for your input.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2613
Joined  2007-11-15

Only one way to find out… give it a go in the 12” pan and see smile.  I haven’t tried any cake recipes by Carol Walters… I’ll have to give one or two a try sometime.

 Signature 

Come visit me at

Blog:  http://butteryum.org
Twitter:  https://twitter.com/ButterYum
Pinterest:  http://www.pinterest.com/butteryum/
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ButterYum.ATastyLittleFoodBlog

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1055
Joined  2007-11-15

The baking powder amounts change to get a level cake. You use less in a larger cake because it needs more structure/support. It is not that it won’t work without adjustment, as in completely fail, but there might be a dome that needs leveling or a dip in the center. A lot of these one-size-fits-all recipes need leveling after baking, so I would be prepared for that possibility—probably easier than adjusting the leavening by trial and error baking.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Hi Patricia and Matthew. Thanks for your response. Patricia, I did make the 12 inch and it came out delicious and very level.  After much testing, I found this recipe to be the best tasting…very similar to Dede Wilson and Rose but better. It does not use the 2 stage mixing, so it takes a bit longer, but for what ever the reason, the flavour and moistness seem to be more balanced. I’m going to try the recipe in two 8 inchx2inch pans, with a possible 6x2 inch. We’ll see how far the batter goes. I’ll let you know. by the way Patricia, I’ve found that baking at 300 convection turns out a very consistent level nicely browned cake, cutting the baking time by about 5- 10 minutes. That’s with the Kitchenaid gas stove.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2613
Joined  2007-11-15
tofusalem - 27 July 2009 03:32 PM

by the way Patricia, I’ve found that baking at 300 convection turns out a very consistent level nicely browned cake, cutting the baking time by about 5- 10 minutes. That’s with the Kitchenaid gas stove.

Good to know… what rack position are you baking on?

 Signature 

Come visit me at

Blog:  http://butteryum.org
Twitter:  https://twitter.com/ButterYum
Pinterest:  http://www.pinterest.com/butteryum/
Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ButterYum.ATastyLittleFoodBlog

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1055
Joined  2007-11-15

Interesting—does it bake level in the small pans too? Using whole eggs gives more structure than just yolks, so that my be one reason why you need a lot less in this recipe.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 04:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  290
Joined  2007-11-16

Everyone’s tastes are different. No cake recipe of Carole Walter has ever turned out good for me, and they are much too sweet for my liking.  I did a taste testing of 4 yellow cakes some years back, this one of Carole’s, Rose’s All Occasion DYBC, a Nick Malgieri recicpe and a Cook’s Illustrated recipe.  My husband, who will eat anything, LOL, didn’t like Carole’s at all.  Rose’s was my winner, then the Cooks Illustrated, then Malgieri, and Carole dead last.  I have made several of Carole’s recipes, and for whatever reason, none of them look good, the texture is terrible, and as I said, much too sweet for my taste.  But I am happy that you found something that works and that everyone likes, that is really what is important. 

Thanks for the information on convection baking, I will put that in my notes files.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 July 2009 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Patricia, I’m baking on the center rack. They are all level and I didn’t use the baking strips either. I don’t know what’s going on with those strips…every time I use them my cake is liquid by the end of the baking time. As I said earlier, this is a similar recipe to Dede Wilson’s as far as the flour, milk and butter amounts. In fact what I might do is use the baking powder amounts in the various size cakes of Dede Wilson as guidance. I find that using the recipe with less cake flour and a bit more sugar (like Dede Wilson) seems to make the cake moister, and more flavorful. Also, the creaming of the butter, not the 2 stage method, seems to give me better results, although it is a bit longer.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 July 2009 11:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1411
Joined  2007-11-15

I suspect your cakes are level and also underbake if using cake strips because you are baking at quite low temperature:  300oF

I am a total cake strip convert, silicone ones, as the traditional cloth ones have some variance depending how much water you squeezed out from the strips during prep.  More than this, bakeries have used silicone cake pans for decades as it is the perfect heat conductor for cakes.  So even it heats or cools.

 Signature 

http://myyellowkitchen.com/index-equipment-html/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Hi Hector. I used the cake strips when I baked at 350, and the cakes consistently came out under-baked. It is NOT my oven , because without the cake strips, my cakes come out fine. More recently, the last month, I discovered, with the advice of my friend who is a baker in NYC, about convection baking. This is all the bakeries do. I first tried it at 325 (convection), and then I found that I had the best results at 300 convection. I am not baking too low, because all the cakes I have baked since converting to convection baking have come out of the oven beautifully, even and on time, or about 5-10 minutes less time. I do believe you regarding the amount of water that is in the strips. I’m sure this is the reason I have trouble with them, but all my cakes have come out evenly baked without the strips…including the 12 inch ones that I tested.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1411
Joined  2007-11-15

Hi there, fyi, bakery convection ovens are very different than home ones.  I had a KA gas oven with convection, very useful.

Happy you enjoy baking without cake strips, less to worry about.

Do you gauge your oven with a thermometer?

 Signature 

http://myyellowkitchen.com/index-equipment-html/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Hi Hector. I always keep a thermometer in the oven. I understand that bakery ovens are much different than home ovens. I didn’t want to try convection, but my friend insisted I give it a go. At first I did it on 325. The results were ok, but I felt they should be better. He told me to use 300 convection. Actually the oven temperature reads between 325 and 350 when I use 300 convection, depending on the oven cycling. I turn the pans after the first 15-20 minutes. I’ve done this 3 times so far using a 12 x2 inch round and 2- 6x2 inch rounds. So far so good. As an experiment, I even switched on one of the cakes starting out at 350f and switching to 300 convection. I guess the Gods were with me. The cake turned out well. I hope this continues when it gets closer to making the cakes for the Wedding. By the way, I know I asked this of you. When you freeze your filled and crumb coated cakes, when do you put them in the fridge to defrost. Do I have to bring them to room temperature to do the final frost with MBC? Thanks.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1411
Joined  2007-11-15

hi there, if your thermometer reads between 325 and 350 then either the thermometer or the oven is displaying the wrong number!  convection or without convection, the temperatures should be the same!

i loved my ka gas oven, convection, used it all the time.  but again, this is a soft type of convection (a small fan that barely circulates the air w/o creating a noticeable draft, and you do have a traditional bottom or top heating element).  commercial ovens or true convection ovens do not have a heating element, the heating is done behind the convection fan, so the actual air comes as hot, the draft is also very noticeable enough to lift away parchment paper or make your cakes shift to one side.

a defrosted, buttercream coated, refrigerated cake, doesn’t need to reach room temp to do the final frost, in fact, i like to keep it cold as it is much easier.

happy baking.

 Signature 

http://myyellowkitchen.com/index-equipment-html/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2009 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  625
Joined  2007-11-27
tofusalem - 30 July 2009 07:44 PM

When you freeze your filled and crumb coated cakes, when do you put them in the fridge to defrost. Do I have to bring them to room temperature to do the final frost with MBC? Thanks.

Everyone has a different method, based on what works in your environment.  When I assemble a cake, I fill it then wrap it well and let it sit overnight, then do a crumb and final coat.  I have found the best technique for me is to crumb coat a very well chilled cake, then wait 45 mins or an hour to do the final buttercream coat - sometimes it depends on the schedule.  I might have four weddings the next day so I am assembling 12 to 16 cakes and then letting them chill overnight and then starting the crumb/final coat.  By the time I’ve crumbed all 16, it is more than an hour and I start doing the final coat and then a final pass at smoothing before I start to stack and decorate.  With the mousseline I find that some times I get skips and places where it doesn’t adhere well in my final coat of buttercream. But your mileage will vary so you have to see what works.

I would say to put them in the fridge overnight and use them in the morning.  They might not be fully thawed depending on whether it’s a big 15” round or a little 6” round, but you can do the final coat of buttercream then.

And even though you’ve had so many people offer comments and helpful information about the cake recipe, I can tell you that over the years I’ve learned to eyeball a recipe and know what will fit in what size pan and how many times I have to scale the recipe up (or down) to get what I need.  I’ve not worried about baking powder - I just multiply it up and I’ve never had a problem.  Just recheck your math, always.  My father says “measure twice, cut once” and in baking when multiplying recipes, that means read the recipe more than once, and do the math three times to make sure you’re right! 

I am using a commercial convection oven and bake most cakes at 300 witih a low fan; cheesecakes and custards at 250; biscuit and profiteroles are much higher.  Convection is circulating the air all around the oven, while radiant heat either comes up from the bottom or down from the top so baking product is done at a higher temp in a conventional oven.  But I had to experiment to find the right settings when I first moved into this kitchen and baked off a lot of tried and true recipes to see how these ovens behaved.

 Signature 

I Dream of Jeanne Cakes selected by Brides Magazine as one of their 100 Favorite Bakers (2013)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2009 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  117
Joined  2009-03-04

Jeanne, you have been most helpful! Hector..I won’t leave you out. I understand that a home convection oven is different from the commercial that Jeanne uses. It seems that the 300 convection, for whatever reason works for me…at least so far!  Jeanne, you are so right about the recipes. I’ve done so much research on this Yellow Butter Cake, that you would think I was doing a Thesis on it!  My husband is beginning to ask me, “is this the one with more baking powder…more sugar…less milk…?” I think if my daughter saw what was going on….well I can only imagine what she would say. Probably…“are you nuts!!!???”  Anyway, I have learned a lot from every bit of information. I spent yesterday at Barnes and Noble reading, Professional Baking by Wayne Gosslen. It helped with technical information. The interesting thing is with each new edition of his books, he changed the flour amounts and sugar amounts. I truly believe that these 2 ingredients have made the biggest difference in all the cakes I’ve tried. Of course the mixing and leavening is very important….I’m just talking taste and texture. Hence, for whatever reason, the Carole Walter recipe works the best for me…especially for scaling easily up and down. Like I said, Amy from Amy’s Breads based her Yellow Cake recipe on that one. Amy’s I feel is not a balanced recipe.

Jeanne, I am in awe of you working on so many cakes at one time!  Wish you were standing over me when I do it! Where did you say you live?? Where is your bakery? Thanks again. Really!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2009 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  865
Joined  2008-03-09

This info is very timely for me, Jeanne. Thanks! I’m doing a wedding cake August 22nd, and my boss at the bakery where I just started working part-time said I could use the equipment and facilities. (Our bakery doesn’t do cakes except for a flourless chocolate and occasional cheesecake, so I’m not in competition with them in baking for private clients. But he’s a sweetheart all the same!)

There’s a convection oven, which I was nervous about using. Also, deck ovens. Didn’t know if I should double-pan for the latter, or if I use the convection, how far down to take the 350 temp that works in my home electric oven. It’s all a bit nerve-racking shifting into a commercial kitchen with cakes! But essential, since our local health authority is cracking down on home bakers because of the food-safe issues.

The thought of using the bakery’s walk-in fridge is also a worry. People shunt things around willy nilly. They have to, to get at what they need. I’m sure it will all work out. Maybe I’ll just take the filled and well-wrapped tiers home with me and refrigerate overnight, then bring them back to the bakery for masking, final coat and decorations on the day of the wedding. But how I would love to do all of that in the privacy of my home kitchen, where I have everything I need!

I think I’m whining now. Sorry! smile

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
Back to top