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Fully baking tart shell
Posted: 20 October 2009 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Me again….!
I’m a bit confused about Rose’s advice on prebaking a cookie tart crust; she says (page 55 of The Pie and Pastry Bible) that for large tarts, bake at 400F for 5 minutes then lower the heat to 375 and bake until set. Then take the weights out and continue for 10 to 15 minutes more.

I’ve been experimenting over the past 2 weekends as I needed to fully bake a tart shell for a chocolate ganache pie; the first time I followed Rose’s advice but the edge collapsed a little bit - nothing too dramatic but annoying nevertheless. The second time I more or less followed this website’s advice (they also quote Rose) http://www.ochef.com/955.htm and thought that maybe I do really need to nuke the crust initially so that the fat doesn’t get a chance to melt?  The second attempt was more successful in that respect, although the edge did brown a bit too much for my liking so I think I would need to turn the heat down a bit more after the first 15 minutes or so, or maybe cover the edge with foil, like you do with pies?

I’d appreciate your views. In the meantime I add links to my two attempts as evidence grin

attempt no. 1

attempt no. 2

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Posted: 20 October 2009 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Are you fully freezing the tart shells before baking them? Large tarts take at least 30 minutes to fully freeze. Also are you lining the tart shell with weights before baking?

Go to your nearest coffee shop and ask for 2-3 of their coffee urn filters (the giant ones). Use these to line the tart shell (coffee filters are grease proof and will not stick to the shell when you lift it out). Spread out the filter to fit the shell and fill it completely full with dried beans (right to the top). Bake the tart shell FROZEN at the temp and time indicated for the size. When it’s set and beginning to brown, take the shell out of the oven, remove the coffee filter w/ beans and continue baking until it’s the color you need it to be.

If you follow these directions, it should not shrink at all.

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Posted: 20 October 2009 09:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Also, what recipe are you using for the tart crust? I HIGHLY recommend Rose’s recipe for sweet cookie tart crust. It’s easy to make and amazingly easy to handle and doesn’t shrink as much as many other recipes I’ve used.

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Posted: 21 October 2009 05:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Hi Roxanne

Thanks for your comments. I use the pate sucree’ recipe from Gordon Ramsey’s book (which I posted in a previous thread). It doesn’t normally collapse when I only part-bake it. I have yet to try Rose’s own recipe but I will definitely do so. Maybe this weekend!

I use dried beans, which I put over some baking parchment.  Normally I try to freeze the tart shell for a bit first, but probably not a whole half-hour, maybe 10-15 minutes. There are often so many stages that I’m pressed for time…but I will try to extend the freezing period.

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Posted: 21 October 2009 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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asphodelia - 21 October 2009 08:17 AM

Hi Roxanne

Thanks for your comments. I use the pate sucree’ recipe from Gordon Ramsey’s book (which I posted in a previous thread). It doesn’t normally collapse when I only part-bake it. I have yet to try Rose’s own recipe but I will definitely do so. Maybe this weekend!

I use dried beans, which I put over some baking parchment.  Normally I try to freeze the tart shell for a bit first, but probably not a whole half-hour, maybe 10-15 minutes. There are often so many stages that I’m pressed for time…but I will try to extend the freezing period.


Parchment paper doesn’t fit into the crevices of a tart shell, so where the beans can’t lie against it, it will shrink away. Get the coffee filters. I think you’ll get better results.

Also, if you find yourself pressed for time, why not plan on making the tart shell the day before? It’ll keep in the freezer until you’re ready to bake it. It really does need to be fully frozen before being put in the oven.

Does Gorden give a temperature to bake this crust at during blind baking? If not, I think Rose’s directions would work fine.

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Posted: 21 October 2009 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Thanks Roxanne

I’ll see if I can get the big coffee filter, only the normal ones for home machines. I have one and the filters for that are pretty small. I don’t think the big ones are very common here in the U.K. though because most coffee shops now don’t sell filter coffee, only Americano etc (not like what I’ve seen in the US where they bring you refills from the jug). I’ll have a look online. (this is another source of frustration: the fact that I keep needing to source stuff that doesn’t seem to exist here. But that’s for another thread!)

I wish I could do the pastry the day before, but most of the time it’s impossible because we have a dessert on a Saturday night, so I bake in the day, whereas on Friday night by the time I get back from work etc, there is just not enough time. This is why I must win the lottery and then I bake as much as I want. It’s certainly an art that demands time and patience, and time is one thing I have very little of :-(

Gordon Ramsey gives the temperature of 190C for pre-baking but there’s no information on completely baking just the shell. Typical!!!

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Posted: 21 October 2009 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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If you can’t find the large coffee filters (no Starbucks in your area?), you can use the smaller bowl shaped filters, but you just have to overlap them before filling w/ beans, and the beans are just a pain to get out of the crust after that. Aluminum foil works O.K. You can mold it into the crevices of the tart shell at least, but it likes to stick to the crust.

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Posted: 22 October 2009 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Ask for a couple at your local fast food chain.  On a side note - the large filters are perfect for cleaning mirrors and windows… they leave absolutely no lint or streaks!

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Posted: 22 October 2009 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I’m pretty sure Starbucks only sell coffee made with Espresso machines (like Americano etc). I didn’t think those machines used paper filters, however I will check next time I go into town…

EDIT: I’ve just had a look with Google and the type of filters I think you are describing are kind of fluted, aren’t they? Like a rosette, kind of thing. The ones available in this country are the pyramid type. I am going to see if I can get my trusted eBay lady in the U.S. can get some for me, as they take requests. But we have a postal strike in the U.K. at the moment! :-(

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Posted: 22 October 2009 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I also use cheesecloth.  That’s what we were taught to use in school.  Just lay the cheesecloth, put the beans down then bake.  It’s another option if you can’t find coffee filters.

Jess

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Posted: 22 October 2009 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Thanks Jess, that’s easier to get hold of, for sure!

I’ve found a US website that lists various types of coffee filters, could you tell me which is the one I’d need (for a 10 inches) tart? Then once I know the dimensions and style, I’ll see if I can track some down.

http://www.cw-usa.com/supplies-filters.html

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Posted: 22 October 2009 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Asphodelia, I just use parchment paper - I can then cut it any size I need.

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Posted: 22 October 2009 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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asphodelia - 22 October 2009 05:01 PM

Thanks Jess, that’s easier to get hold of, for sure!

I’ve found a US website that lists various types of coffee filters, could you tell me which is the one I’d need (for a 10 inches) tart? Then once I know the dimensions and style, I’ll see if I can track some down.

http://www.cw-usa.com/supplies-filters.html


Either the 1.5 gallon or the 3 gallon urn style coffee filters will work. If you use cheese cloth, be careful to use a thick enough layer, or you’ll end up baking it into the crust. :-D I learned that the hard way (and I don’t use cheesecloth anymore)! Also, at least for me here in my area, cheesecloth is expensive, and coffee filters I can usually get for free, or at least pennies.

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Posted: 22 October 2009 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Starbucks UK menu lists 3 different filter coffees brewed every day, so I am sure they are using these filters, because they typically brew the coffee 2-3 gallons at a time and keep it in thermal urns. I don’t think it’s any different than what they do in the USA.

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Posted: 22 October 2009 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I found these urn-sized coffee filters at a restaurant supply/party supply store in my tiny little town- the cashier thought I was loony to be so happy to find them!

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Posted: 23 October 2009 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Julie - 23 October 2009 12:20 AM

I found these urn-sized coffee filters at a restaurant supply/party supply store in my tiny little town- the cashier thought I was loony to be so happy to find them!

:-D

I can get them at Sam’s Club and Costco by the case, but then I end up with 1,000 coffee filters taking up much needed storage space. Since I only use about 10 filters a year for tart shells, I just get them at a coffee shop. They usually don’t mind parting with a few of them.

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