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Pasteurized eggs help
Posted: 16 December 2009 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]
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If you have had success making meringue with pasteurized eggs, what brand do you use?  I would like to make mousseline from pasteurized eggs for my Christmas and Christmas eve desserts.  I know it’s never been an issue using regular eggs, but we will have some very elderly and very young guests and let’s just say I’d rather not take any chances.  However, I’ve wasted two batches of Davidson brand pasteurized eggs trying to get them to whip.  No luck.  I know all the golden rules (no residue on bowls, beaters, etc.)  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Posted: 16 December 2009 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I don’t have it in front of me, but I’ve used powdered egg whites and they worked perfectly.  They took a little longer to whip, but the end result was perfect, and there was no difference in the taste at all.

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Posted: 16 December 2009 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Deb-El makes a pasteurized powdered egg white that reconstitutes with water. It comes in a small can, and it has lasted me a long time. I’ve used it to make meringue and royal icing, and it works beautifully. The only drawback is that sometimes when I have dissolved it in water, not every speck of powder has dissolved, and I’ve then had to strain the mixture through a fine mesh strainer to get out the tiny, undissolved lumps. Still, it’s a great alternative when you want to be absolutely sure an uncooked meringue or icing is salmonella-free.

The trick is finding who sells it. Whole Foods used to carry it, but I haven’t seen it for awhile. You might want to google Deb-El Foods Corporation, 2 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth, NJ 07206. Good luck!

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Posted: 16 December 2009 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Gia, sorry to hear you had to waste two batches.  I don’t particularly know the brand I have used because Jewel-Osco only sells one brand.  But I’ve used it many times and it’s never been a problem for me.  I’ve used it for mousseline when I know there will be kids or elderly people eating the frosting.

Have you tried maybe freezing the egg whites and thawing it to room temperature before whipping?  I remember reading in this forum somewhere that frozen egg whites whip better.  Just a thought.

Jess

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Posted: 16 December 2009 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I am not a health inspector, but I think the concern is exagerated.  Think of it as very little amounts of salmonella on the mousseline, each person eating a slice of cake.  Versus all the salmonella in the other foods, like fresh vegetables, fruits, nuts, chicken, beef.  Etc.

In my opinion, the pasteurized eggs product is more for convenience use so large bakeries don’t need to crack so many eggs and can store the product for long times.  But nothing equals to a fresh egg without all the additives and chemicals added on the pasteurized egg product which may be less healthy than a speck of salmonella?

Eat fresh, eat local.

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Posted: 16 December 2009 06:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Just to clarify, you still need to crack pasteurized eggs.  They still come in a carton in their shells and there are no chemicals and additives to the eggs.  So from a convenience standpoint, there is no difference between using this and regular eggs.  Eggs are pasteurized through a process that involves heat, very much similar to the process that is taken to pasteurize our milks.  But the heat in the pasteurization process is intended to kill the bacteria in the eggs.

I also went through a sanitation certification where they put emphasis on high-risk group.  Children and elderly are very susceptible to bacteria because their immune system is not as robust.  For commercial operations, the FDA requires that pasteurized eggs be used if you are serving to high-risk groups (elderly people, children, pregnant, women, etc.)  I am not an expert on this matter but I just want to share what I know.

I have used regular eggs at home to make products that have not been completely cooked but I and my friends/family who eat them are not in a high risk group.  But personally, I would not take the risk with other people’s lives if I were to serve them to a high-risk group.

Going back to your original question, I think I have used the Davidson’s brand you are referring to.  And I have been able to whip them up for mousseline and other stuff.  Can you describe the problem that you have with the egg whites?  They definitely whip up better at room temperature.

Jess

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Posted: 17 December 2009 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I agree the pasteurized eggs in the shell work very well, but I can also tell you that the pasteurized egg whites sold in cartons DO NOT work well (and the instructions on the box say not for meringue or angle food cakes).  Sadly, I cannot find pasteurized whole eggs where I currently live, but I have been able to purchase them in several other states where I’ve lived.

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Posted: 17 December 2009 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Thanks for the help and suggestions - I’m talking about the eggs in the shells.  What could I be doing wrong?  I have never had an issue whipping regular egg whites from the shell, and I can’t figure out, if not operator error, what the problem is.  Maybe I’ll try one more batch, or I’ll try contacting the manufacturer.

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Posted: 18 December 2009 12:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Question:  while eggs are fairly fresh or refrigerated and while the shells are intact, salmonella does not proliferate rampantly, neither salmonella can penetrate inside the egg.

First rule of sanitation is to inspect the shells, and discard any that are cracked.  Then, if you wash your eggs prior to cracking (not pasteurizing) and also avoid cross contamination, then you won’t be contaminating the egg product with salmonella from the shells.

Lastly, pasteurized eggs in the shell can still contain salmonella because these are stored and handled at supermarkets near non pasteurized eggs or other salmonella prone products or people or surfaces!

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Posted: 18 December 2009 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/Focus_On_Shell_Eggs/index.asp

Here is the USDA’s information on eggs. I think this has all you need to know about eggs and then some!

Thank you for this post, I know this is always a concern, and since I cannot get the pasteurized eggs out here in the boonies (or any nearby states).

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Posted: 18 December 2009 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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To save time on reading, I copied this part of the info on when egg recipes are safe (from the USDA web sight), and it says that frosting (they refer to 7 minute frosting), using hot sugar syrup into beaten egg whites is safe, so I think that covers the butter cream.  I know 7 minute frosting usually has you heat it over boiling water when you whip the egg whites, so could we do this for the buttercream?  This would make it safe. 

Use Safe Egg Recipes
Egg mixtures are safe if they reach 160 ?F, so homemade ice cream and eggnog can be made safely from a cooked egg-milk mixture. Heat it gently and use a food thermometer.
Dry meringue shells are safe. So are divinity candy and 7-minute frosting, made by combining hot sugar syrup with beaten egg whites. Avoid icing recipes using uncooked eggs or egg whites.
Meringue-topped pies should be safe if baked at 350 ?F for about 15 minutes. Chiffon pies and fruit whips made with raw, beaten egg whites cannot be guaranteed to be safe. Instead, substitute pasteurized dried egg whites, whipped cream, or a whipped topping.
To make a recipe safe that specifies using eggs that aren’t cooked, heat the eggs in a liquid from the recipe over low heat, stirring constantly, until the mixture reaches 160 ?F. Then combine it with the other ingredients and complete the recipe.
To determine doneness in egg dishes such as quiche and casseroles, the center of the mixture should reach 160 ?F when measured with a food thermometer.
Use pasteurized eggs or egg products when preparing recipes that call for using eggs raw or undercooked.

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Posted: 18 December 2009 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Hector, to answer your question, the current epidemic of salmonella is not due to the bacteria that is outside the shell but rather in the egg itself.  Pasteurization process kills the bacteria inside the egg not outside.  The non-pasteurized eggs may have salmonella in the egg itself not the shell so the cross-contamination that you are referring to will not happen due to handling of uncracked eggs.

For the facts on this matter, you can also read information from the Centers for Disease Control and prevention http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/salment_g.htm  .

The key thing about foodborne illnesses is temperature.  As you guys know, actual poultry products may also be contaminated with salmonella (i.e. turkey, chicken, etc.).  I realize that many people take this issue lightly because they have not seen any illnesses with uncooked eggs or poultry products at the wrong temperature.  However, I have first-hand experience with a member of my family who got ill with salmonella and was hospitalized.

The risk is there.  There is no way of knowing whether a product that you are buying is infected or not.  The only way to consume that product safely is by ensuring that is properly prepared to the correct temperature.  I think people should know the facts and make their decision based on how much risk they are willing to take.

Jess

hectorwong - 18 December 2009 04:39 AM

Question:  while eggs are fairly fresh or refrigerated and while the shells are intact, salmonella does not proliferate rampantly, neither salmonella can penetrate inside the egg.

First rule of sanitation is to inspect the shells, and discard any that are cracked.  Then, if you wash your eggs prior to cracking (not pasteurizing) and also avoid cross contamination, then you won’t be contaminating the egg product with salmonella from the shells.

Lastly, pasteurized eggs in the shell can still contain salmonella because these are stored and handled at supermarkets near non pasteurized eggs or other salmonella prone products or people or surfaces!

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Posted: 18 December 2009 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Jess, I love tasting batter. But each time I do so, I know I’m playing the salmonella roulette. No pasteurized eggs available where I live as far as I know. I’m really a stickler for food safety in every other area, but tasting batter is the only time I let down my guard.

Beth

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Posted: 18 December 2009 11:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Jess, thank you for the very useful link!

Given the small number of eggs with this sort of contamination, I guess I will keep on tasting batter. But I agree that I would want to take extra precautions for anyone in a high-risk population.

I had salmonella once, years ago, from a chicken burrito from a restaurant. It was a very unpleasant experience even though not life-threatening. My gut was irritable for weeks afterwards. I can easily see how a bad case could be dangerous or fatal.

I would love to see some statistics on how many salmonella cases are due to eggs—and of those, how many are due to improper preparation and handling and how many are due to this “contaminated from the start” problem.

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Posted: 19 December 2009 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Barbara, I poked around the goverment site Jess linked to, and about 80% of traceable salmonella outbreaks are attributed to eggs, most of which is assumed to be from internally-infected eggs. 

Of the egg-related outbreaks, 60% are from commercial situations involving “pooled” eggs, where many eggs are cracked and put together.

A consumer’s risk of contracting salmonella from an infected egg is estimated to be one in 10,000 in the Northeast, lower in other areas of the country.

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Posted: 19 December 2009 11:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Wow, I am very surprised that the USDA says 7 minute frosting is safe. And since that is “made by combining hot sugar syrup with beaten egg whites” then Italian Meringue Buttercream must be safe too!

I’m still a bit surprised though. Are they sure that the whole mix comes to 160? It would seem that would depend on the initial temperature of the eggs (but since they are supposed to be room temp, maybe it all works out in the end).

I’m happy to hear this though because I just served IMB for the first time!!

I haven’t tried it yet, but the Eggology brand pasteurized liquid egg white you get at Whole Foods (and much more expensive than Egg Beaters) says on the package that it works for meringue.

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