Fondant over genoise ? + experience with mousse filling & wedding cakes
Posted: 25 January 2008 01:03 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi everyone.  Someone is interested in a white wedding cake with a white chocolate mousse filling covered with fondant.  That leads me to these questions I’d love to hear your feedback on:

I know they will have to go with a genoise if we do a mousse filling b/c of refrigeration and weight.  I don’t have much experience with mousse fillings but know they need to be refrigerated & that makes me wonder seriously about considering it for a wedding cake since it will be sitting out for so long.  Does anyone have experience with this filling for weddings?  I guess if the bride really wants that, I could consider Cobasan to stabilize it for 6 hours.  Will this work?

Also, will genoise hold fondant well for a tiered wedding cake?

Thanks for any help.

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Posted: 25 January 2008 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I’d suggest a filling that will stay firm out of refrigeration for a few hours.  Fondant is extremely heavy - maybe too heavy for genoise with mousse filling.  Sorry, I don’t have first hand experience with this combination.

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Posted: 25 January 2008 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I’ve done many mousse cakes but never covered with fondant.  I don’t see how it will work as fondant will just ‘disintegrate’ upon refrigeration!  I think you can still tier mousse cakes and take them out of the fridge for a couple of hours - but you will have to rely on other forms of decoration.  Look up french cake books - they usually wrap the sides of their mousse cakes with a ‘joconde’ sheet - essentially a thin almond sponge - you can pipe many decorative designs on this sheet (before baking) by using what they call a ‘cookie batter’ which can be tinted to the colour you desire.  You pipe the scrolls, then freeze, then layer on the almond sponge batter and bake.  The sheet is then cut to fit around the mousse cake (inside a ring), and the mousse is moulded into it.

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Posted: 25 January 2008 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thank you.  This helps confirm so far what I was wondering….  Elicia, that sounds really interesting!

About fondant, according to Colette Peters it can be refrigerated covered in plastic wrap.  And Ron Ben Israel refrigerates, but does say he got a special-made moisture control system put on.  I haven’t done that; but it sounds like it would be very helpful to do so.

Do you just cover & decorate the day before and leave out at room temp?

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Posted: 27 January 2008 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I use Rose’s recipe for rolled fondant, so I’m not familiar with other types which may have ‘moisture-proofing’ - which I doubt is possible!  I normally don’t cover my cakes with fondant - I just use them for decorative accents - flowers, etc.  As they will sit on top of buttercream, I don’t put them on the cake until the final hours.  I will normally mould or cut out the fondant decor a few days in advance and leave them at room temp to harden (lightly covered with clingwrap).  I only transfer them onto the cake just before delivery, but I have notice that they last a few days on the buttercream - as they do hold their shape although they wld have softened - but only if kept at cool room temp, never in the fridge.

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Posted: 27 January 2008 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Just wanted to clarify a few things.  I only use fondant on my cakes and they always get stored in the refrigerator overnight.  I generally put them in the box or boxes they will be delivered in.  You are mistaken when you said the fondant would disintegrate.  You can store fondant in the refrigerator and even in the freezer without any problem.
But keep in mind when covering a cake in fondant you do need to use a cake that will hold up to the weight.  Any of Roses butter cakes, buttercreams and ganaches hold up perfectly and you won’t ever have a problem.
Happy Baking,
Lori V.

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Posted: 28 January 2008 03:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thank you for that information, Lori.  That is good news!  Do you mind if I ask you some more clarifying questions?

Do you have a special moisture-control element on your refrigerator/freezer?

Do you have trouble with any sweating or gumminess when you take them out?  Do you do anything special to bring them to room temperature?

It sounds like you do all your decorating in fondant too.  Do you fully decorate before you put them into the frig/freezer?

Do you use a wash/syrup on your Rose cakes to make sure they are still moist after refrig/freezing?

Finally, I just covered a fresh cake (Rose’s Golden Luxury Butter Cake) two nights ago in fondant and let it set out at room temp covered in plastic wrap all night.  Then I decorated in the morning/afternoon.  It was left out the rest of the day, displayed, and served at night.  There was a noticable difference in its moisture.  It had been the best cake we ever tasted the night before (my first time with that recipe), but it was much drier last night.  I did this b/c I had heard you can let a fondant-covered cake set out w/o concern b/c the fondant seals it.  Apparently I still needed to cover it in plastic wrap?  Or would you have refrigerated it, boxed, overnight and also after it was finished?  How long do you allow fondant-covered cakes to set out at room temp as you are decorating or preparing for the event?

I’m sorry for all the questions!  I appreciate all the help you can give.

By the way, I have visited your web site, and your cakes look fantastic.

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Posted: 28 January 2008 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Cathy,
Bring on the questions smile
No, I do not have a special moisture control on my refrigerator such as Ron Ben-Israel does and have never had a problem.  Colette who’s bakery is in the same general area as Ron’s sin Manhattan does not either.
If I box them in the refrigerator, I generally don’t have a problem with sweating.  If so, the moisture evaporates in about an hour.  You can fully decorate your cakes and then refrigerate them but NEVER freeze them.  There is no place for the moisture in a fondant covered frozen cake to go and your cake will be ruined.
I do not use any type of syrup on my cakes, I don’t feel it is needed.  If I am delivering a cake on a Saturday, I bake on Thursday afternoon or evening, store in the refrigerator overnight (tightly wrapped), tort & fill in Friday morning and decorate.  Then I store them in the refrigerator overnight and deliver on Saturday.  I take my cakes out of the refrigerator and photograph them just before leaving to deliver them.  Generally my cakes sit out for 4-6 hours before they are served. 
I would try this method and see how it goes.
Happy Baking,
Lori V.

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Posted: 28 January 2008 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thank you so much, Lori.  I will try this and see.  I love every part of the process with the exception of feeling frantic at the end if I am running behind.  So, I like your suggestion about getting done the day before.  I have just been trying to balance making the cakes as close to the event as possible b/c of freshness (but just started working with fondant) and no frantic endings.  smile

I noticed you have a mousse filling that you offer with one of your cake flavor options.  Do you still use Rose’s butter cakes with that mousse?  Do you ever have any trouble with the cake being too heavy for the filling?  Or with allowing the mousse to set out, for instance, at a wedding for too long?  Also, if someone wants a lighter tasting cake (than butter cake), what do you offer?

I’m taking you up on your gracious “bring on the questions”!

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Posted: 03 February 2008 01:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Lori - thks for info. I’ve never covered a cake with fondant before, but I do use fondant for decorations.  However, I have a moisture problem when I refrigerate the fondant flowers/butterflies etc - they droop after I remove them from the fridge.

Cathy - to keep the cake really moist - try moistening with syrup.

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