Question re buttercream under ganache…please.
Posted: 04 February 2010 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi.  When I make a ganache covered cake I generally like to use it while it is very warm so that it will flow and leave a smooth finish.  I am thinking that I would like to put a thin layer of coffee flavored buttercream underneath.  Would it be better to use a regular buttercream than an IMBC OR SMBC? I am concerned that it will melt when the warm ganache hits it and make a mess.  If it’s cold, I don’t know that the ganache will flow.  So…... what do you think?  Thanks!  Pat

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Posted: 04 February 2010 02:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Hi Pat,

I’ve done this a few times and it is a little tricky.  I don’t think the type of butter cream really matters, but you do want it quite cold or it will melt.  I believe I even put it in the freezer for a few minutes, but it has been a few years, so I don’t remember that part exactly.  You want to ganache just in the upper 90s, or it will also cause too much melting.  It is helpful if you have an extra person to hold a funnel over the cake while you pour the ganache into the funnel. Guiding the funnel around the cake will make sure it flows evenly on the cold cake. Don’t touch the ganache after pouring, or it will mar the surface.  You might also want to consider Rose’s new chocolate glaze in the new book, as it is supposed to be easier to work with.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Thank you Matthew.  There are a couple of glazes in Rose’s new book.  Which one do you mean?  There is also the lacquer one.  If using the lacquer, I could put a thicker ganache frosting to smooth it and then apply the lacquer…  Haven’t attempted that yet…... Thank you for the tips re temp of cake and ganache.  I was hoping for a nice glossy finish. I don’t usually put any icing under the ganache but I thought it would give me a smoother look.  I was concerned it would melt.  I would think a merengue buttercream might melt easier but not sure….... Pat

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Posted: 04 February 2010 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I use mousseline buttercream under a ganache glaze all the time.  The mousseline is a meringue buttercream.  I frost the cake, I put it in the fridge till the buttercream is completely firm.  Then I glaze with the ganache glaze recipe in the cake bible.  Never had a problem.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Bill, how warm is your ganache when you use it and does it flow?  I may get brave and ice with cooled ganache and try the lacquer glaze.  It’s so amazing looking.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I’ll add a couple of other tips.  Don’t stir the ganache too much, or you’ll create air bubbles. If you do get bubbles, however, you can pop them with a needle. Yes, I was referring to the lacquer glaze.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I follow the directions in the cake bible…I make the ganach with the chocolate/cream proportions in the recipe for the glaze…not the ganache frosting.

It is kind of luke warm, but with the cold buttercream it sets up fast and doesn’t melt the buttercream.  I don’t have my cake bible with me (I’m at work) but if you have access to a copy, look at that recipe.  I have not yet tried the laquer glaze.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 08:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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what I do at work (regardless of the type of glaze/ganache) is to put the cake on a rack (the board the cake is on just fits the cake; it does not extend beyond the edge of the cake). Put the rack on a sheet pan lined with parchment. 

Pour the ganache over the cake; I usually aim for the center and pour steadily.  Gravity does the rest; the ganache will flow and cover the top and sides.  You might want to spin the pan around to make sure your sides are covered - the bottom edge is usually where something might not cover, epecially if the buttercream has a bump in it.

If you want a second coat, wait at least 20 minutes - longer is better; if you are in a hurry you can refrigerate it for a little bit; just put the rack in the fridge. Pour the second coat the same way.

If you get bubbles, use a toothpick or a pin to pop them - you need to do this sooner so the bubble will smooth out rather than

When you’re done, move the cake onto a presentation cake board or the cake plate (use a wide spatula), and carefully fold the parchment paper and push the excess back into the bowl of ganache.  Usually we strain the ganache when we are doing multiple cakes and there might be crumbs in the ganache “run off”.  We have to warm the ganache as it firms over a bain marie so it stays fluid.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Pat - 04 February 2010 06:45 PM

If using the lacquer, I could put a thicker ganache frosting to smooth it and then apply the lacquer… Haven’t attempted that yet…...

I haven’t tried that yet either, Pat, but I’m sure it would work. Rose describes p 415 RHC building the ganache up in two layers, a thin crumb coat and a final coat, refrigerating inbetween. And on p 417, how forgiving this glaze is of touches and touch-ups and that the shine can be revived. Something to think about for sure!

Also, have you thought of doing a ganache frosting instead? I recently put the Grand Marnier ganache from RHC over a cold cake filled and crumb-coated with coffee-flavoured mousseline. You can switch off the GM for a coffee liqueur or, as in my case, for espresso curd (non-drinkers in the party.) The ganache set quickly, but I had plenty of time to work with it. Then was able to do extra smoothing with a warmed spatula. Even got out my blow dryer and briefly waved it back and forth over troublesome spots.

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Posted: 04 February 2010 09:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I vote for the shiny ganache glaze from RHC!  It’s just so pretty, and I think the ideal glazing temp for that is in the low 80s (82 or 83F?), which will be easier on your buttercream than something warmer.

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Posted: 06 February 2010 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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i’m sorry, but i just can’t leave with here without saying how outstanding your experiences are to me, who finds it an effort to measure temperatures of eggs, rather than of ganache of a certain temp being poured through a funnel, over pre-coated cake with possible bubbles that one pierces with a pin, and which results in sheen like a grand-piano top! Somehow, with this kind of support, I hope to one day not too far in the near future be able to actually effect such gorgeous results. You guys are so great the way you share with one another. In the meantime, however, I shall take my place in the realm of the more easily achieved mousseline, happily working towards your great adventures here! Thanks for what you have shared. rolleyes

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Posted: 06 February 2010 08:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Joan - 07 February 2010 12:30 AM

i’m sorry, but i just can’t leave with here without saying how outstanding your experiences are to me, who finds it an effort to measure temperatures of eggs, rather than of ganache of a certain temp being poured through a funnel, over pre-coated cake with possible bubbles that one pierces with a pin, and which results in sheen like a grand-piano top! Somehow, with this kind of support, I hope to one day not too far in the near future be able to actually effect such gorgeous results. You guys are so great the way you share with one another. In the meantime, however, I shall take my place in the realm of the more easily achieved mousseline, happily working towards your great adventures here! Thanks for what you have shared. rolleyes

I have to tell you Joan, being the big amateur here, the lacquer glaze is easy.  really easy.  You just need to have really smooth ganache underneath for the look you want.

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Posted: 15 July 2010 12:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Just posted.  Tried to apply ganache to chilled SMBC cake and it separated and slid off….....  Help…

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