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Cordon Rose Cheesecake question.
Posted: 07 February 2010 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I made the cordon rose cheesecake this weekend as well as the chocolate oblivion truffle cake.  I followed the recipes exactly and cooked both of them in a waterbath.
the truffle cake turned out great.  The cheesecake, while it tasted excellent, was very soft, not firm like what is described in TCB.  I baked it for the 45 minutes and then turned the oven off for 1 hour like it says to do.  When I took it out it was still quite giggly.  I let it sit overnight in the fridge and it did firm up somewhat but not as much as what it should have.  Now I did substitute 6 egg yolks for the 3 eggs for a firmer cake.  But obviously it didn’t work out.  Now I didn’t take the internal temp. of the cake after the 45 minutes or the 1 hour rest in the oven.  Maybe it was undercooked?  I have never taken temperatures of my cakes and they have always turned out great.  I have always just used a metal skewer to test a cake and it has always worked out fine for me.  Maybe cheesecake is different.  Any suggestions would be most helpful.  Everyone loved the taste.  I did a chocolate cookie crumb on the bottom and part way up the sides and did a cherry topping.  Yum!!!

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Posted: 07 February 2010 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Liza - 08 February 2010 12:49 AM

I baked it for the 45 minutes and then turned the oven off for 1 hour like it says to do.

This technique has always seemed so…sloppy….to me.  The degree of cooking would depend on the rate of heat loss from your oven over that one hour.  Surely ovens vary in that characteristic?  And there doesn’t appear to be an easy way to rectify your mistake, since you won’t know you’ve made it until after chilling the cake.

For the New York Cheesecake in Cook’s Illustrated, they opined that the only way to reliably detect when the cheesecake has cooked enough was to take its internal temperature.  Their recipe is *very* different from Rose’s, however, so their conclusion may not apply.

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Posted: 07 February 2010 10:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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First thing I would do is check the temperature of your oven to make sure it is accurate. This is my favorite cheesecake recipe.  I have made this cheesecake too many times to count during my lifetime, and it always turns out. I never use the water bath, and it is still fantastic.  I usually turn off the oven and do not crack the door, and leave the cheesecake in the closed, off oven until the oven it cool, which is longer than one hour.  Perhaps you could try this next time, the residual heat for a longer time would set the cheesecake more. And do check your oven temp, being off by 25 degrees would make a big difference.

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Posted: 07 February 2010 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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This cheesecake is divine; and it’s not as firm as other cheesecake recipes.  The first time I made it, I thought it was undercookied as well - yours may well have been, it’s hard to know without a thermometer to check the oven temp.  I notice that in my oven, when I bake in a water bath, things take much longer and that can be because you have more water in your pan (it goes hgher up the sides of the cheesecake pan which provides more insulation and a longer cooking time); if you use cold water or hot water (even boiling water) that can make a difference in the amount of time it takes to cook too.

I would describe the texture of this cheesecake as being like a panna cotta.  Firm enough to cut and hold a slice, but smooth and creamy like sour cream.

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Posted: 08 February 2010 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I know quite a few years ago I did check the temperature of my oven and it was fine.  Maybe since it is getting older things have changed.  I guess I should check it again.  It baked it in a 3"x8” cheesecake pan and the water bath pan was a 10” round pan 2” deep with about 1 inch of boiling water from the kettle and the cheesecake pan was doulbe wrapped in heavy duty aluminum foil.  Maybe next time, once I turn off the oven I will leave it in there until the oven is cold.  And it would probably be a good idea to take the internal temperature.  I did like the taste of it but prefer a firmer texture.

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Posted: 08 February 2010 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I know woody has posted the internal temp for the chocolate oblivion, but I don’t remember seeing anything on the cheesecake.  Does anyone happen to know the internal temp?

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Posted: 11 February 2010 05:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I’ve also made this cake many times, and turned it into a wedding cake last year. It is much less firm than say your Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. You said everybody loved the taste - did it hold its shape or was it running away after you opened the form?

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Posted: 11 February 2010 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Well it did hold its shape (barely)  I wouldn’t want to jiggle it too much.  I couln’t imagine turing it into a tiered cake.  (at least the one I made) The taste was very good.  But my preference is for a firmer texture.  I guess it is what you are used to.

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Posted: 12 February 2010 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I followed Rose’s recipe. Mine was perfect first time baked. Sounds like an oven temperature problem:

BBC food site recommends a long time cooling in the oven: “Turn off the oven and open the oven door for a cheesecake that’s creamy in the centre, or leave it closed if you prefer a drier texture. Let cool in the oven for 2 hours.”

Junior’s Cheesecake cookbook notes correct temperature is vital. Preheat oven for at least half an hour - preferably an hour. If the temp is too low the cake might never firm up enough to slice it.

Remove cake from the oven when the edges are set and light golden brown and the top turns slightly golden, looks set and no longer wet. If it is still soft around the sides and pale colour leave cake in oven for 5 to 10 minutes more. Once out of the oven and removed from the water bath leave it untouched for two hours. Do not move it during this time.

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Posted: 12 February 2010 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Yes, I guess I’m with Paul and the others regarding the oven temperature. Since you followed the recipe exactly I suppose you used Philadelphia cream cheese, right? Although I’ve used TJ’s cream cheese and it came out just like the others. And yes, it was always good enough for a tiered cake, though the kind with the straws in it to hold up the upper tiers.

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Posted: 12 February 2010 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I will take the temperature of my oven again.  Its funny though all my other baked goods turn out great except this cheesecake.  I have made other cheesecake recipes and they have turned out fine. 

When I turned the oven off the top of the cheesecake no longer looked wet.  The top edges were starting to slightly turn brown. I left it in the oven for one hour as specified by the recipe.  I preheated my oven for about 45 minutes.

Not sure whether or not I am going to make this again.  Alot of ingredients to waste just experimenting to get it right.  If my oven temp. of off then maybe I will try again.

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Posted: 02 January 2012 03:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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As I have a question that is related to this thread I will post it here - and hopefully be able to rectify my problem somehow. I made the Gingerbread Cheesecake from Martha Stewart’s website (sorry Rose!) - 2 Lbs Creamcheese and 4 eggs, with 1 1/2 c sugarand 1/4 c light molasses in it. I did it on a pre-baked Gingerbread cookie crumb crust, and baked the cake in a water bath. Baked for 1 hour as directed, and then as it looked pretty “jiggly” I left in the oven for another hour or so with door open 1/4 of the way to cool. It did fall in abit but evenly with only minimal cracking. Chilled covered overnight. Surrounded by mini-Gingerbread people just before serving. Upon serving I found it extremely soft and fluffy (beaten too much??) inside - almost impossible to slice, slumped on the plate, and not at all nice in texture (slimy). I am wondering if there is any way I can re-bake what is left and try to get it to firm up - it is really a frustrating result (last yr the first time I did it it turned out fine). Suggestions? Could I freeze it and then slice up and serve it partly frozen? It breaks my heart to waste 2 pound of Creamcheese!

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Posted: 03 January 2012 03:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I could be totally wrong, but somewhere in my memory I read that the temp of cheesecake should be around 150F?  Don’t quote me on this.  I, too, have had issues with the Cordon Rose Cheesecake—and I use an oven thermometer, so I know the oven shouldn’t be the issue.  However, when I baked a 6” cheesecake (the pumpkin one from RHC)  it turned out well—I think I baked about 45 mins in the waterbath.  I do find it frustrating and I’m wary to experiment given the cost of a whole cheesecake can be $20+ in ingredients.

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Posted: 03 January 2012 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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KB, I haven’t made or tried to rescue a cheesecake before, but I’ll bet Woody and Rose might have some good advice- you can ask them directly over on the Q&A/blog.  And I’m sure Woody has an internal temp, he almost always does.

The internal temp for the oblivion is 150F, and the three times I’ve made that, it never reached 150F within the time specified.  Not sure if my water bath is larger, or my foil heavier, or what.  So I do think there are additional factors involved than just oven temp, because I know my oven pretty well-keep a termometer in it at all times- and I don’t think it was acting up any of those times.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 12:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Thanks for the input Julie & Sherrie! I do have a thermometer in the oven and it is accurate - however as you say - the size of the water bath (mine is about 13 x 15 x 2” roaster), and the heaviness of the foil (I used doubled heavy-duty weight) may be factors. I notice that the underbaked part is closser to the bottom of the cheesecake layer, while the top portion is more baked. I am at 3000 ft altitude here so things generally bake a little faster, and I tend to overbake cheesecakes. So I thought - for once I will follow the time specified. Will go with my gut instincts next time (overbaked is still better than mushy!). I have left it only loosely tented in the fridge to “dry” it abit - the flavour is very good, and we are enjoying it in spite of the soggy texture. I will ask Rose though.

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Posted: 02 July 2012 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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At the risk of reviving an old thread… Did you ever figure out what was going on?  My guess was the oven temperature loss sounded like the most variable variable.

I was going to suggest putting a pizza stone on the bottom rack of the oven - I have a smallish electric oven, and I had all kinds of temperature control problems that went away when I started leaving my pizza stone in all the time.  It smooths out temperature fluctuations as the oven cycles on and off, and it for sure helps my cheesecakes to cook and set.

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