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Two cupcake questions
Posted: 11 May 2010 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi Everybody,
I just made the cupcakes in RHC on page 295.  They are delicious.  They are light and cakey and tasty all that the same time.  I am real close to getting the results I like in a cupcake. But I have a couple of questions though.

1.  How do you to treat the cake flour if your are weighing it?  In the book Rose says for volume measuring that you sift it over the cup and level the top.  If I am weighing the flour do I sift it over a bowl on the scale?  Do I need to sift it?

2.  I didn’t sift the cake flour for this batch and when I open the cupcake I can distinctly smell flour.  And I can distinctly taste flour. Is this right?  Or is it because I have too much flour as a result of not sifting?  I can’t find anywhere in the book where Rose recommends sifting the flour when weighing. Also I haven’t frosted the cupcakes yet.  Is it possible that the frosting is needed to cover the flour taste?

3.  Can I use creme frache instead of sour cream?  And can I add any flavorings I want - like lemon extract and some juice?

I have a sneaky suspicion that I have added too much flour to this batch.  They fell in the center a little, and there is that distinctive flour taste. I am going to run to the grocery store and get more vanilla, eggs and sour cream to make another batch.  In the meantime I thought I would come to the Rose Cake experts for help on this.
Thank you.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Okay, I have researched on this forum.  I found out that 10.5 oz of flour is the same sifted or not.  Remember I 1.5 times my recipe to get 24 cupcakes.
The flour taste and smell has diminished as the cupcakes have cooled.  The tops are not flat though.  I think I need to add less batter.  So I’m going to make a single batch to see how they come out.

And the other thing I saw is that for cupcakes the creaming method may be better, so I’m going to try that also.

I also found out that I can add some lemon zest and lemon extract in place of the vanilla to get the flavor I want.

The texture and moistness of these are unbelievable.  But I am concerned they will be drier by tomorrow.  This will require more research and eating of cupcakes tomorrow.  It is a hard job, I know, but someone has to do it!

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Posted: 11 May 2010 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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10.5 sifted cake flour is not the same as 10.5, oz of cake flour sifted. zipper  Hopefully someone in our forum will be kind & explain this to you…I am too busy to be of any further help to you.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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LindaF - 11 May 2010 04:52 PM

Do I need to sift it?

I think that Rose has said that she only sifts the flour when weighing it when making a Genoise; the sifted flour incorporates more easily into the egg foam.  I know that I don’t sift the flour otherwise.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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~FRESHKID - 11 May 2010 06:57 PM

10.5 sifted cake flour is not the same as 10.5, oz of cake flour sifted. zipper  Hopefully someone in our forum will be kind & explain this to you…I am too busy to be of any further help to you.

I assume she meant ounce “weight”, not volume, which makes her statement true. Like the old joke, which weighs more, a pound of feathers or pound of lead.  wink

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Posted: 11 May 2010 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Surely 10.5 oz is 10.5 oz. whether it is sifted or not!  Or am I being a bit dense?  As Charles says , which weighs more , 1lb of feathers or 1lb of lead? rolleyes

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Posted: 11 May 2010 08:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Sorry if I worded it wrong, I was typing in a hurry.

I did mean weight. Sorry

  I just finished my second batch of cupcakes.  My scale died so I had to rush out and buy a new one before I could make this batch. 

For this batch I made a single batch, and I used the creaming method.  I cannot understand why I got two completely different cupcakes in color and taste.  But the ones I made earlier today did not brown as much as these.  They both cooked at the same temperature for the same amount of time in the same oven.  The only difference is the way the batter was mixed.  The batter came out looking the same as it did this morning.

I still think this morning I had too much flour.  How that would effect whether the cupcakes browning or not I can’t figure out.  But my scale was acting wonky and it died (very old scale, postal scale, not even food scale) so I’m thinking that it was not reading correctly for weight somehow.  I do recall measuring out the flour and looking at in the bowl thinking that it looked like a lot for 10.5 ounces.

The verdict?  My daughter says that this batch tastes like a cookie only it’s cake and I need to only make these from now on.  I did add 2 tsps of vanilla bean paste to the batch this after noon and the equivalent amount to the batter this morning.  In this batch the flavor of vanilla does come through which is what I wanted.

The only other thing I can observe is 50 grams is too much batter for my size muffin pan.  I couldn’t get that much in the cupcake liner without it being almost to the top.  So I used my blue handled disher (#16 I think), leveled it off and put that amount into the cupcake liner.  That amount still rose over the top of the paper and then flatten ever so slightly, creating say about 1/8” overhang.  I had enough batter to make 4 more cupcakes which I filled only halfway up. Those 4 came out slightly puffed up over the liner, not spilling over.

I read on here where one of the members said that the cupcakes are better using the creaming method and I have to agree.  They are still moist, tender with a very beautiful crumb.  It gives me encouragement to try a cake recipe.  And I will definitely be making more of these cupcakes. Maybe the chocolate ones will be next.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 09:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Glad your second batch came out so well, congratulations! 

Did you sift your first batch into a bowl that was on the scale?  With my scale, I cannot sift directly into a bowl on the scale.  The incremental measurements are somehow too small, and the scale never registers any increase no matter how much I sift into the bowl.  Or, as you say, the scale may have been acting up just before breaking.

I think Bill’s main reason for using the creaming method with cupcakes is to minimize shrinkage so they don’t separate from the wrappers.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I just read your post on the other thread, if your first batch tastes like flour and fell in the middle, that could indicate they were underbaked, either by time or temp.

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Posted: 11 May 2010 09:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Underbaking?

I baked for same time, same oven, same temp for both batches.  But who knows, the baking gods liked the second batch better!

As the first batch cooled, the sunk even lower.  I didn’t even save them for DH to take to work.  They fell into the garbage.  Second batch is going with him tomorrow.

Can I make these lemon by adding some extract and zest?

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Posted: 12 May 2010 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Extract and zest should be no problem.

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Posted: 12 May 2010 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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CHARLES T & JEANNETTE:
  Good morning to both of you. Regarding your postings do we know or are we assuming???? they are both the same. question

  ~FRESHKID. rolleyes

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Posted: 12 May 2010 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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~FRESHKID - 12 May 2010 03:53 PM

do we know or are we assuming

We first assumed, but it has been confirmed by the poster.  It was a reasonable assumption; I’m not quite sure how someone would go about measuring flour by ounces volume.  I suppose a standard measuring cup, but I just can’t imagine a baker using one of those to measure flour, especially someone using Rose’s books.

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Posted: 12 May 2010 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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CHARLES T:
  Charles, thank you for your timely responce. With all due respect Charles I do not think we are on the same page here. The question is or the question posed is ....is 10.5 oz of sifted flour the same as 10.5, oz of flour sifted??? Any flour it doesn’t matter, although in using Miss Rose’s recipes we would most likely be talking cake flour.

  Charles good to be posting with you once again, enjoy the rest of the day.

  ~FRESHKID.

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Posted: 12 May 2010 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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~FRESHKID - 12 May 2010 05:29 PM

The question is or the question posed is ....is 10.5 oz of sifted flour the same as 10.5, oz of flour sifted??? Any flour it doesn?t matter, although in using Miss Rose?s recipes we would most likely be talking cake flour.

That depends on what you mean by “same”.  I think the context here is weight of flour and clearly, 10.5 ounces weight of flour weighs 10.5 ounces, sifted or unsifted. grin  Perhaps you will elaborate your point if we aren’t on the same page?

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Posted: 13 May 2010 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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CHARLES T:
  Good morning to you. I will do my best to explain about flour sifting. Which by the way is one of the causes of why our amateur bakers have baking failures when using the very sensitive 2 stage mixing method that is employed in RLB cake books.

  When the recipe calls for 10.5 oz of SIFTED cake flour you drop cake flour into your sifter & sift till you get 10. 5, oz. However, to get this amount you will use approx 12, oz of flour.
  If you weigh out 10.5, oz of cake flour first & then SIFT you will end up with less weight approx. 8.5, oz of cake flour.

  Charles, go get your copy of the cake bible. Go to page 67. Read there 1/2 cup cake flour “UN~SIFTED” & it says it weighs 2.25, oz.
  Now turn to page 32, “SIFTED CAKE FLOUR” 1, cup weighs 3.5, oz.
  Charles notice the variance. If 1/2 cup UNSIFTED weighs 2.25 oz then 1, cup SIFTED should weigh 4.5, oz….but it doesn’t.
If you or any of our forum members have this baking book “PROFESSIONAL BAKING by WAYNE GISSLEN in the 2nd edin the back of the book it is located in the 3rd APPENDIx. In the 3rd ed it in the 4th APPENDIX. There he says that cake flour sifted weighs 3.75, oz….. unsifted it weighs 4.5, oz do you see the differances. Now then the reason why 1, cup of flour varies between RLB’S numbers & in Prof baking book is that they are using the weights that were furnished by their flour millers. Some say that their cake flour weighs 4 1/4 oz per cup & others say their flour weighs 4.5, oz per cup. If any of our readers has book please verify this information in a posting.

  Bottom line Charles, In order to arrive at 10.5 of cake flour… We must be able to follow the directions on WHEN TO SIFT”.

I hope I made it easy to understand & it proves helpful to our forum members. Enjoy the rest of the day Charles.

  ~FRESHKID.

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