Problem with Moist Chocolate Genoise
Posted: 09 December 2010 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-12-09

Hi everyone,

I’ve baked Roses’s Moist Chocolate Genoise 3 times, and every time the lower portion of the cake was much denser than the upper portion. The recipe calls for lots of water, whisked with melted chocolate and i think the water makes the egg foam bottom heavy. For all attempts I whip the egg and sugar foam on high speed for more than 10 minutes with my kitchenaid mixer. I get a very stable foam to which I add the flour and water-chocolate mixture. I made sure the liquid water-chocolate got folded in homogenously before baking. But everytime the cake bottom is always much denser. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2010 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1031
Joined  2007-11-21

OK…I don’t have my book in front of me (i’m at work) and I haven’t made this cake in a very very very long time…but is it possible ( and Like I said, I don’t remember) that you are supposed to cook the chocolate with the water?  this definitely changes the texture of the chocolate/water mixture - I have seen this in other recipes.
Sorry if I’m wrong…but I did see the post…and I sort of remember that.

In any event…I have made this cake a few times, and no longer do, because I prefer the Genoise Chocolate…I used it a couple of weeks ago for black forest with much success.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2010 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4791
Joined  2008-04-16

Yes to what Bill said, the water/chocolate mixture gets simmered for five minutes, until it’s thickened into a pudding-like consistency. 

Also, check that the percentage of cacao in your chocolate is no higher than 62%. 

Good luck!

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  How to Make Sourdough More (or Less) Sour

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2010 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-12-09

Thanks for your replies, Julie and Bill. I think this could be the problem!! I didn’t simmer the chocolate!! What I did was I left the chocolate to melt in hot water like how ganache is made.  I shall try once more with the simmering! Thanks for your help!!

I remember that I made a Japanese castella cake once that called for water to be added to the foam, and the cake turned out denser at the bottom too..

Julie, can I know why I shouldn’t exceed 62% for the cocoa content?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 December 2010 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4791
Joined  2008-04-16
mightyroy - 09 December 2010 07:31 PM

Julie, can I know why I shouldn’t exceed 62% for the cocoa content?

Because there’ll be a dense layer at the bottom (voice of experience) smile.  A higher % chocolate will put too much heavy stuff (cocoa butter) in the cake for the structure (eggs/flour) to support. 

I have made this cake a number of times, it does not turn out with a dense layer at the bottom unless there’s a deviation from the recipe.

Good luck!

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  How to Make Sourdough More (or Less) Sour

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 02:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-12-09

Alright, I tried once more, this time simmering the chocolate in water for a full 5 minutes. I get a pudding like consistency. This time i mixed the flour into the chocolate mixture first, before folding into the foam. The bottom is still heavy, but not as much as before. Here’s a photo. I used baking paper to line my aluminium bake tin, without any flour or butter. Could this be a contributing factor to the denser cake bottom? I would like a perfectly homogenous cake..

Image Attachments
bottom heavy.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4791
Joined  2008-04-16

Great picture, that helps.

Hmmmm.  You are following this post:  http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/2010/03/pellets_be_gone.html , is that right?

Are you weighing eggs and flour and chocolate?

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  How to Make Sourdough More (or Less) Sour

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  96
Joined  2007-11-05

beating too long can also be a problem. be sure to use the correct type of flour and if you are weighing there is a better chance of using the correct amount. too little flour can cause this denser bottom as it doesn’t give the foam enough support.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-12-09

Thanks for your replies!!

Yes I do weigh my ingredients to the gram with an electronic balance. The only thing I didn’t weigh was the eggs. Do you think that the denser bottom might be caused by the parchment paper? I just use plain parchment paper without any oil or flour when lining my aluminum tin.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1088
Joined  2009-05-26

For genoise, you will get better results when you weigh the eggs separately - even when the recipe doesn’t tell you the weigh them separately. Eggs now (even when buying extra large) has smaller and smaller yolks. For recipes that calls for 4 yolks, for example, I sometimes ended up using 5 yolks.

Voice of experience here also - I made Rose Genoise (from Rose’s Heavenly Cakes) twice and both turned out dense and short, the culprit ended up being the eggs smile.

 Signature 

http://www.knittybaker.blogspot.com/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  96
Joined  2007-11-05

absolutely weigh your eggs—they can vary as much as510%. parchment isn’t the problem. possibly too much folding deflates the mixture.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1355
Joined  2008-09-27
mightyroy - 09 December 2010 11:13 AM

For all attempts I whip the egg and sugar foam on high speed for more than 10 minutes with my kitchenaid mixer. I get a very stable foam

Several other books I have mention that the high speed (no more than 5 minutes) needs to be followed by a period of medium speed.  It’s the medium speed at the end which provides the stability and makes the large bubbles of air into small ones.  I do 5 minutes of high speed and 10 at medium.  (And I incorporate the flour with the mixer on the “stir” setting.  No pellets!)

 Signature 

If error is corrected whenever it is recognized as such, the path of error is the path of truth.

—Hans Reichenbach

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  96
Joined  2007-11-05

that’s your answer. you may have no pellets but you are deflating the mixture this way. i’ve always beaten and high speed in a stand mixer for 5 minutes and then folded it in by hand and i get the texture i’m looking for. have you actually tried it the way the recipe is written?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1355
Joined  2008-09-27
Rose Levy Beranbaum - 10 December 2010 05:12 PM

that’s your answer. you may have no pellets

Rose, wrong person.  wink  I’m not the original poster.

 Signature 

If error is corrected whenever it is recognized as such, the path of error is the path of truth.

—Hans Reichenbach

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 December 2010 09:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Newbie
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  7
Joined  2010-12-09

Alright, I will weigh my eggs and give it another try! The moist chocolate genoise has pleasant soft nougat-like texture when refridgerated, possibly due to the cocoa butter from the chocolate. It’s exactly what I’m looking for in my cake, so I’ll keep trying until I get it right!!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2010 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4791
Joined  2008-04-16

So, to reiterate, weigh the eggs and don’t beat on high for more than 5 minutes.  Any problems after that are likely to be from folding technique.  Good luck!

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  How to Make Sourdough More (or Less) Sour

Profile
 
 
   
  Back to top