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Genoise—heavy bottom layer ( w/pic )—what went wrong?
Posted: 10 June 2009 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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Well Rozanne, it appears you may be psychic.  I just checked out the You Tube of French Genoise and I definitely need to incorporate my ingredients better.  I am always so afraid of deflating.  And she gives a great visual of what the eggs should look like.  I am so excited to try this again.

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Posted: 13 June 2009 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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HOORAY!!! Today I am celebrating my very first perfect Genoise Classique . . . I must report that she is gorgeous in every way. However, I am having a problem preventing my husband from running down the road with her to gobble her up!! She rose right to the top of the pan and stayed there. The YouTube of Rose on French Genoise helped so much in seeing the batter texture and color, and her technique in folding. I used the large Prince balloon, and my fingers at the last. The batter was just so light and heavenly. All the suggestions of you Julie, Patrincia, Rozanne, Cass were ringing in my ears this time and they all fell easily into place. I may syrup with strawberry cloud since I have some frozen puree. So, once again, many thanks to all of you who have brought me this far!  >’ . ‘<  joan   [where are you Cass?]

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Posted: 13 June 2009 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Congratulations Joan! I am so happy for you.

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Posted: 13 June 2009 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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JOAN:
  Good afternoon my learned friend. I am so happy for you. We all expect more success stories from you in the near future.
Go & enjoy your cake & mentally prepare your next recipe….have you been thinking of a special baked product????.
Let us know.
  Joannie my friend enjoy the rest of the day.

  ~CASS.

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Posted: 13 June 2009 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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Congratulations Joan, you did it! Aren’t those YouTube videos “the bomb”? I’m so happy for you, and proud of you for persevering, I’m sure you’ll have many lovely cakes in your future.

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Posted: 14 June 2009 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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smile  Aha - there you are, my learned friend Cass! So good to ‘see you.’ Thanks to you and Julie and Rozanne and Patrincia for your unflagging encouragement! I think I will return to the white genoise this week and see how I fare. Then, of course, the mousseline is next with all its delicious flavor possibilities. So I hope to have more success to share soon.  >’ . ‘<

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Posted: 15 May 2010 08:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Hector dear you mentioned thisRules:

1- Eggs should be beaten until it reached “triple” in volume, if you don’t get this volume is because they were not pre-warmed, warmed enough, or sugar was not superfine? I beat mines on a warm water bath, when it has reached double volume, I remove the water bath (or bring the water to room temp by adding ice cubes slowly).
2- Clarify the butter and dump the solids by passing the warmed butter thru a fine cloth.


What is it that you dump ice cubes in??????? the eggs?????????????? please inform me as i have never heard of this before…

also
If i use regular melted butter in the rose recipes for genoise is it ok??? i do not clarify it ..i do not brown it…is that why my cake turned rubbery????

TaRa

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Posted: 15 May 2010 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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TRK, Hector is referring to his mixer’s water bath attachment.  He dumps the ice into the water bath, not the eggs.  Basically, you should be fine as long as you warm the eggs according to the directions in the recipe before whipping them.

Melted (liquid) butter is fine, that is not likely to be the reason for a fallen genoise. 

When you say your cake turned rubbery, do you mean that it fell and was not tall enough, or was it the correct height but rubbery in texture?  If it fell, it is most likely because of either inadequate beating or too much folding or both.  If you found it rubbery but the correct height, was it syruped?

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Posted: 16 May 2010 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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ok dear julie will make the cake again and then i will answer your questions
Thank you so much for all your support
TaRa

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Posted: 16 May 2010 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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On the subject of genoise and beating…has anyone tried the method that Shirley C recommends in Bakewise, or heard Rose’s thoughts on it? Shirley recommends beating on high only for 2 minutes or so, then an extended beating time on medium. The idea is that beating on high creates too many air bubbles, which rise to the top and pop during baking, creating a heavier cake. The batter beaten for most of its time on medium is more stable, with fewer large air bubbles. I have not experimented with the two, as I haven’t yet tried my first genoise! Only the tres leches sponge so far…am gathering as much info as I can prior to my first attempt. Thanks for any thoughts you have on the high vs medium question!!

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Posted: 16 May 2010 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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Yes i have heard of that too from my sister who has been to baking school…she told me that too

She said start fast and end medium to get a less bubbly foam

But since Julie and the other pros here said ON HIGH FOR 5 MINUTES then i guess that rose’s recipes need that

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Posted: 16 May 2010 10:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Yes, I have tried the extended beating times from Bakewise, Roland Mesnier, and Sherry Yard.  They may provide a tiny bit of additional height in the finished cake, but in my case it was barely noticeable.  I don’t think the difference is very large compared to the leaps and bounds a baker will make by practicing and learning the skills of beating, accurate measuring and gentle folding. 

And there’s a bigger issue than height:  with the longer beating times, the eggs loose moisture and the finished cake needs a little more syrup than is specified in Rose’s recipes.  So I think it’s best to keep the syruping and the beating directions consistent within one recipe.

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Posted: 17 May 2010 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Thanks for the input!  One other item…I saw earlier in the thread that the sugar site does not recommend whirling the sugar in a food processor because of what it does to the sugar crystals.  Yet in RHC, it says a close approximation to Baker’s Ultrafine sugar is a few minutes in a food processor.  Trying to be economical (it’s all relative…this after spluring on E. Guitttard chocolate and Nielsen Massey vanilla and Muscovado sugar!), I decided to just food process a 5 lb bag of sugar into ultrafine sugar.  Has anyone consistently used the “homemade” bakers’ sugar successfully?  I haven’t tried it out yet, but I’ve got a whole bunch of it now!  Almost burned out my food processor motor…I ground it ‘til it was a powdery feel just like the superfine sugar I’ve been buying.

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Posted: 17 May 2010 01:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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And yes again!

I make food processor superfine all the time, usually from organic granulated or turbinado.  I’ve never noticed a problem with using it in baking, either for sponge or butter cakes, or for buttercreams or whipped cream. 

I’ve read the sugar site’s comment, but it doesn’t say what the danger is, only that it doesn’t perform properly.  Since the issue being discussed is how quickly the sugar dissolves, I can’t figure out why that wouldn’t work.  I hate to be a pessimist, but it strikes me that their profit margins are probably higher on superfine.  Anyone know why they think it won’t work?

Be sure to weigh superfine, especially if you’ve taken it to a powdery consistency.  If it’s close to powdered sugar in texture, volume measurements may be off.  And if you’re starting from a large crystal sugar like turbinado, it will need to be strained and the larger pieces put back for another whirl.

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