1 of 2
1
Pie crust shrinks
Posted: 02 February 2011 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Just had another try at the flaky cream cheese pie crust. The blind bake turned out well except for a slight shrinkage problem. This was in spite of the dough being refrigerated overnight which I then froze.

Any ideas why???

Also, I was using a quiche pan and didn’t see how one could raise the edge to allow for shrinkage.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4797
Joined  2008-04-16

I think a little shrinkage is normal, and more than a little if you’re not using pastry flour or a mix of pastry and cake flour.

Any support you can give the sides is good.  You can build them higher to allow for shrinkage and be sure to press weights all the way up the side when blind baking.  With some pans you can anchor the edge on the top of the rim, to help hold it up.

Make sure not to overwork the dough, that can very quickly increase gluten formation (and cause shrinking and toughness).  Although to a certain point it’s a matter of preference, as I sometimes give the dough a turn or two to maximize flakiness, knowing that it will increase gluten.  Then I take other steps to compensate for that, such as rolling it thinner and building the edge up extra high, with extra support. 

Don’t overbake/overbrown this dough, it will loose the special flavor of the cream cheese.

What kind of pie did you make?

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  Greek-style yogurt recipe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Thanks Julie! I was really surprised that it shrank after the freezing, weights etc.

Will bake again in the morning - I will mix our 10g cake flour with 10%  corn flour to try and bring the protein down to 9g and see what happens.

I love the divine taste of this pastry!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1088
Joined  2009-05-26

I’ve made the flaky cream cheese pie crust several times and there’s always a little shrinkage. Like Julie said, I don’t think it’s avoidable (despite the pie crust being frozen).

 Signature 

http://www.knittybaker.blogspot.com/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Thanks Jenn! Maybe I should switch to another recipe???

Could you recommend apple pie pastry recipes which don’t shrink.

I would like the pies to have simple clear cut lines - not the country rustic apple pie look.  No leaf borders or mounds of apples etc which is why I chose a fluted pan.


How can I raise the edge to allow for shrinkage in a fluted pan and a standard pan?

With a standard pan I could maybe try to achieve this but the pastry shell height would be very uneven as I tried to fold under???

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Julie - Apple Pie.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 05:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1088
Joined  2009-05-26

Paul, I think if you want to avoid shrinkage completely then you need to make pie crust with shortening. Which I don’t think would taste very good (I winced as I’m typing this red face)

I don’t make pies often and not that familiar with other recipes - other than Rose’s.

Did the pie crust shrink very much? If it’s only slightly, is it still not acceptable?

I get what you’re saying about wanting a simple, elegant (non rustic) apple pie. And when you use fluted pan, it would be more like apple tart, right? (from the looks of it at least). I’ve made apple tarts before in a fluted pan, the tart is open face so the apples were sliced thin and sort of lay in rows overlapping each other. Even if the crust shrinks a bit, I think the pie would still look good, especially if you glaze the apple slices with apricot jam, would look glossy and appetizing. Would this not work for you? I might be completely off base here and if so, I apologize smile.

 Signature 

http://www.knittybaker.blogspot.com/

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 February 2011 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4797
Joined  2008-04-16

Paul, I’m trying to visualize your pan.  I’ve definitely made tarts with this pie crust recipe (like pecan) and I’ve built the edge up higher than the filling would come to.  Is what you’re saying that building it up to the top of the fluted edge tart pan won’t allow for enough shrinkage? 

Perhaps a medium-deep tart pan?  I have one that is 1 3/8” high, I use it for tarts (and other things).  Maybe there’s something like that available locally?  Quiche pan?

If you need nearly zero shrinkage then make sure you’re cutting your flour with starch to reduce protein, handle it as little as possible, and allow plenty of time in the refrigerator (not the freezer) to relax gluten.  You did get the cream update to this recipe on the blog, right?  I think so, but just making sure.

Apple pie, yuuum! smile

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  Greek-style yogurt recipe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 12:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Yes it’s a tart with thinly sliced apples and also a variation with apple crumble and strudel top.

I guess the commercial bakers have no shrinkage with shortening. Taste is terrible.

I live in the country so don’t have a huge choice of pans and on line choice in SA of baking equipment is very very limited.
I am sooo envious of what you have in the US and Canada.  I like the fluted edge look. grin

I have two deep pie pans (normal edge) which I will use instead.

Aiming for perfection I allowed it to relax in the refrigerator overnight. I have the cream update.


One question - our local cream cheese (and its not the low fat variety!!) has a fat content about half that of the US do you think I should try using more??

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4797
Joined  2008-04-16
Paul - 03 February 2011 04:52 AM

One question - our local cream cheese (and its not the low fat variety!!) has a fat content about half that of the US do you think I should try using more??

Because the fat in the cream cheese coats the flour and helps limit gluten formation, I think you’ll see an improvement from correcting the fat content.  Consider adding butter to the cream cheese until it mimicks the fat and water content of U.S. cream cheese.

Here’s a link that will give you the grams of water, fat, etc. per 100g, which I find very, very helpful.  http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  Greek-style yogurt recipe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Good link! Thanks.

As part of my daily baking routine I made Rose’s Basic flaky pie crust - lowering the protein content of my flour to around 9 grams. While it came together in my fingers in the processor the disc itself felt a bit on the dry side and there were some cracks in it. I didn’t want to work it too much with my hands in the plastic bag so merely wrapped it and inserted into fridge for overnight.

Does the fact that there were cracks in my disc mean I should have added more water in the processor?

How moist should that disc ideally be?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4797
Joined  2008-04-16

If you can still roll it out and it isn’t falling apart when you try to serve it, then I wouldn’t worry about a crack or two.  Especially since you are trying so hard to limit gluten. smile

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  Greek-style yogurt recipe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Thanks.

One last query..

Rose says pulse until most of the butter (in the processor) is reduced to the size of small peas.
I can’t seem to achieve that - my mixture is much smaller than pea size??? Too much pulsing or to little fat? Too little water?? (My guess is this last one.)

Also how critical is the butter size she recommends… 3/4 inch cubes. Is this related to the above in any way.


Is there a video anywhere which shows accurately the size of the particles in the processor. The only one I have found is a very old clip and not good definition.


I am attempting to discover what mistakes I may be making.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 February 2011 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4797
Joined  2008-04-16

I almost never make pie crust in the food processor, so hopefully someone with direct experience will also chime in. 

The thing about the butter is that you want the pieces to be large enough so that they form big, flat flakes in the dough.  I do this by hand, rolling out the butter pieces into flat flakes with a rolling pin and then using a pancake turner to layer the mixture and roll more flakes.  I make about 4 passes with rolling pin/pancake turner, or until there is only a little loose flour left. 

If your butter pieces are smaller than peas, I would say try pulsing less, so that they are larger.  The more you pulse, the more you work the dough and form gluten.  But you need to strike a balance, because if you don’t pulse enough, there will be too much loose flour and you’ll end up having to add too much liquid to get it to come together. 

Why do you pulse longer than the point at which your butter pieces are pea-sized?

 Signature 

Brød & Taylor Test Kitchen:  Greek-style yogurt recipe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2011 12:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Thanks for the good info.  Your pastry must be stunning!

Sounds strange but I never seem to have butter which reaches pea size - always much smaller. I do freeze the butter for several hours - maybe too long??
I am using the steel blade as recommended by Rose . Maybe I should switch to the plastic dough blade which has less of a cutting edge.

I will try pulsing much less for a start.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 February 2011 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  404
Joined  2009-10-14

Julie - Success at last.

Baked again today and it was fine!! Very little if any shrinkage. Did the Kate flour trick. Worked like a charm!!
It was definitely the high protein content of our local flour. grin

More good news… my baking supplier has at last received stock of fluted deep dish pie pans. Two on order should arrive next week.

Thanks again for your help!

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1
Back to top
 
‹‹ Strudel Dough      Lemon Meringue pie storage ››