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Putting Basic Butter Recipes into 11 X 15, instead of 2 9 inch round?
Posted: 24 May 2011 12:17 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi, I am new and just got The Cake Bible.  I am trying to figure out how much I would need to decrease the baking powder of the White Velvet Butter and the All American Chocolate Butter Cake to put them in an 11 X 15 pan.  I have looked at several forum posts which say that these recipes can just be put into the 11 X 15 instead of the 2 9 in round pans, but do not mention decreasing the baking powder.  Do I need to adjust the baking powder?  Thanks in advance!

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Posted: 24 May 2011 05:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I think page 491 of cb will have the answer.

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Posted: 24 May 2011 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Thank you for the guidance, but I still feel confused.  I don’t understand the chart on page 491, or page 490. First, there is not a listing for an 11 X 15 pan.  I see level 6 includes 13 X 9, and 18 X 12, but I’m not sure where to go from there, or how to use the chart.  Let’s say I use the low end Rose factor for the 18 X 12.  It is 7.  I see it says (number of times to multiply base).  I don’t know what that means!  The White Velvet Butter Cake calls for 1 T + 1 t of baking powder.  I thought I would need less for an 11 X 15, but how much less, and how does multiplying get less?

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Posted: 24 May 2011 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Mary, if you post back with the height (1”, 2”, etc.) and volume, in cups of your pan (you can pour water into it), we can help you try to estimate.  11 x 15 is not a standard size cake pan, so there are no entries for it in the charts at the back of the book.

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Posted: 24 May 2011 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The pan is 2 inches high, and the volume is 22.9 cups.  (So I would need 11.45 cups of batter, to fill halfway, right?) Thanks for the help.  i guess I do not understand the Rose Factor, even if I was using a normal sized pan. :(

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Posted: 24 May 2011 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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OK, trying to re-think to wrap my head around this.  The ingredients are the same as the White Base Cake, correct?  So, for my 11 X15 pan, I should multiply the ingredients in the base cake time 7 (low end of the rose factor for 18 X 12).  I still don’t understand how much baking powder to use.  1 1/4 tsp X 7?

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Posted: 24 May 2011 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I haven’t checked to be sure, but I think the forum posts that talk about putting these recipes into rectangular pans without making adjustments are talking about a smaller pan than yours, 9x13.

There is a written example on p. 489 of how to follow the process of using the Rose Factor charts, that may be helpful.

Here’s what I would do: 
- you need to find two things, first the number of base recipes that will fill your pan, and second the correct “level” for figuring out baking powder quantities.

- to find the correct “level”, look at the chart on p. 490.  Your exact pan size isn’t listed there, but since it is between the two sheet pan sizes in “Level 6”, I’d say that would be a great place to start.  That is, if a similarly shaped pan smaller than yours and another larger than yours are both level 6, then level 6 will likely work for your pan as well. 

-To find the right amount of batter (i.e., number of base recipes) to use, first find a pan with the same capacity as yours.  From the chart on p.455, you can see that a 15x2 round pan has a capacity of 24 cups, a little more than yours, and the 14x2 round has 21 cups, a little less than yours.  For now, let’s look at the 15x2 pan.

-Back to the chart on p.490, you can see that two layers in a 15x2 round pan have a Rose Factor of 12, you’re making one layer (I think), so you would need half as much, or a Rose Factor of 6.  Your pan is a little smaller than the 24 cup pan, so you can either use 5.7 for your Rose Factor or use 6 and bake a few cupcakes. 

To sum up so far, to bake one layer in your 11x15x2 pan, you’ll use a baking powder level 6 and a Rose Factor of 5.7 or 6. 

-Next, to get your quantity of ingredients, multiply the base formula on p.491 by your Rose Factor of 5.7 or 6.  So for a RF6 you’ll need 9 egg whites, two cups of milk, etc.  As for baking time, I would estimate something between the two rectangular pans, so something like 37-47 minutes.

-Finally, to get the right level of baking powder, look at the second chart on p. 492 and you’ll see that level 6 cakes need 1.25 tsp per base, so multiply 1.25 tsp by 5.7 or 6 to get the right amount of baking powder.

So, all in, you would multiply the base recipe on p.491 by six, use 7.5 tsp of baking powder, and bake for 37-47 minutes.  Be sure to use cake strips.  And remember to bake a few cupcakes in order to make sure your pan doesn’t overflow.

Note that in the chart on p. 490, the Level six cakes are only for one layer, while the rest of the chart is for two, and that the baking times for the two level six cakes are reversed.  There’s an errata section on this website, that’s one of the few errors in the book.

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Posted: 24 May 2011 02:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Not to confuse the issue, but if you want to go at this a different way (that may seem simpler), you can see that the recipe on p. 46 (White Velvet) is half the quanitity that the above process gives.  So you could also just double that recipe, and then make an additional adjustment to the baking powder.  Double that recipe would give 8 tsp baking powder, and you need less for a larger pan, so reduce it to 7.5 tsp baking powder.

Double that recipe would be about 25 cups pan capacity, so to be on the safe side you might want to bake a few cupcakes after filling the pan half way.  It might work to fill your pan a little more than half way, I just haven’t done it and wouldn’t want your layer to overflow or to be overly dense or to fall in the middle. 

For baking the large rectangular sheet cakes, Rose says in the wedding section that it is sometimes necessary to wait until they just begin to shrink from the sides in order for the center to be done.  This is different than the smaller scale recipe, so I just thought I would point that out.

For the chocolate cake, you would follow the same process but with the charts for chocolate cake.

Hope that helps, the Rose Factor section is not the easiest place to start with the Cake Bible.

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Posted: 24 May 2011 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thank you!  I am going to give it a go this afternoon!

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Posted: 25 May 2011 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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When I?m baking a half size sheet cake (roughly 11x15), I just use half size sheet pans. No need to make any adjustments to the baking powder since a sheet pan is only 1/2 inch high, so they bake up quickly. I also don?t need to torte/slice layers, which is always dicey for a cake that big and awkward.

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Posted: 25 May 2011 10:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I made it and it turned out kind of thin.  (I didn’t measure it.)  I wonder if after all the worry about the baking powder, my baking powder was old?  I am going to get fresh and try again today.  If it turns out the same height, maybe I will make each a layer.  If it turns out taller, I will use the taller one.  I am hoping to put this side by side with a chocolate one, and ice them together.

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Posted: 25 May 2011 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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When I?m making a half sheet pan size, I make 1.5 times the recipe, and fill the pan almost to the top. It makes a layer that is about .75 inches high. I usually have enough batter left over for just a few cupcakes. For your size pan, you need enough batter to fill it 1 to 1.5 inches. I?d make double the recipe to make sure I have enough batter to fill the pan properly.

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Posted: 25 May 2011 12:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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If you filled the pan half way (one inch of batter in a two inch pan), then the layer should be about 1.5” tall.  If it’s dramatically shorter we should probably try to figure out why…

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Posted: 25 May 2011 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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hi all

I have the same project for this Saturday. Same size pans, is it safe to just double up Rose’s All Ocassion Butter Cake, and then a Chocolate Cake recipe?
Or I can always rely on the Rose factor, just wanted something less to worry about!!

thanks!
Miriam

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Posted: 25 May 2011 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I would be worried about scaling up into a larger pan without making an adjustment to the baking powder.

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Posted: 26 May 2011 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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I got fresh baking powder and it rose all the way to the top of the pan (puffed just a tad higher actually).  So I’m sure my problem was the baking powder.  Thanks for the help!

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