scaling up all american chocolate butter cake for a 12 inch pan - PLEASE PLEASE HELP
Posted: 03 February 2013 04:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I combed thru the cake bible and my deduction is that im clueless when it comes to figuring and calulating things out =(
All I know is- i think doing one and half or even double the all american butter cake recipe ( in he book for 2 9 inch pans) will be enough for a single 12 *2 inch pan. Right ? Wrong? I ALSO have no clue with altering the baking soda. i tried breaking my head over this one and im ending up with something like 8 teaspoons.
SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME.!!!!

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Posted: 03 February 2013 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Hello chocoholic,

    I don’t have my copy of TCB with me, but I’m going to do my best to try to help you here.

    First, let me refer you to some tables near the back of the book (I don’t know the exact page number, but near the section discussing wedding cakes). You will find one page that has a table of information based on the size of cake you are baking with number of servings per two layers of the given size, an appropriate Rose Factor (RF) to apply to the base formula, which level of baking powder to use, as well as the appropriate mass of batter in the pan. In the table, as you go down the far left vertical column of information you will find pan sizes. Find the row of information for a 12” cake and then as you go across the table of information from left to right you will the appropriate RF, baking powder level, # of servings for two layers of that cake size, and mass of batter to pour in the pan. Once you have the information for a 12” cake you can apply it to the base formula found on the following pages.

  Next, find the base formula for the chocolate butter cake (each cake type: white, yellow, and chocolate have their own base formula). In this table you will find what Rose refers to as the “base formula” with the quantities of each ingredient to use. These quantities are what you will apply the RF to multiply each ingredient by. Since I don’t have my book with me, I’m going to use some numbers as an example, but these aren’t necessarily the numbers in the actual base formula. You’ll have to find the correct numbers in the book. Plus, I don’t think we’re supposed to print the actual numbers here anyway due to copyright rules and general respect for Rose.

  Remember, I’m making up these numbers I’m about to use for the purpose of this explanation. Check for the actual numbers in the book. Now, suppose the table of information tells you to use an RF of 4 and a baking powder level of 3. Furthermore, suppose the base formula tells you to the base amount of cake flour is 25 grams. This would mean you multiply the base number (25) by the RF (4) to give you 100 grams of cake flour to make a 12” cake. You repeat this process for each ingredient in the cake and multiply each of those by the RF as well. So, if you had 10g sugar in the base formula, you would multiply that by 4 and use 40 grams. Also, it’s worth noting that in some cases you can choose between different RF values to use. For example, if you have a choice of using 3 or 4 as your RF, it’s up to you which one you want to use. Just be sure that once you make that choice you use that one to apply to all of the ingredients. You wouldn’t want to use RF 3 for some of the ingredients and RF 4 for others.

  Now, for the baking powder there is a separate table of information (separate from the information in the base formulas and usually right below the base formula table) about how much baking powder is used according to which level you are using. Using the numbers from my example (again, they will probably be different than what’s actually in TCB since I’m just making up numbers for this explanation). The level of baking powder you use for any given size of cake can be found in the table of information I told you about in the first part of this post that has cake pan size, BP level, RF, et cetera. Now, suppose the table tells you to use level 3 baking powder for a 12” cake, then find the amount of baking powder used for level 3. You then have to multiply this amount by the RF, too. So, suppose level 3 tells you that it’s 3 grams of BP and you’re using an RF of 4, then you would have to multiply that 3 grams by 4 for a total of 12 grams of baking powder. Also, I believe each cake type (white, yellow, or chocolate) has its own separate table of BP levels, so be sure to use the correct base formula, as well as the correct table of BP levels.

  Once you have your batter prepared you just follow the guideline from the first table so you know what mass of batter should be in each pan and then bake at the appropriate temperature and time.

  One last thing to mention here. A while back I think someone told me that there was a typo in the information in the first table with RF, BP level, batter mass, et cetera. I think it was regarding the serving portion amounts, or how many layers the formula was for. I believe that applying the RF to the base formula (for any given cake pan size) is to make one pan of batter (i.e. one layer), even though the table provides information regarding how many servings are made for two layers. Hopefully someone will chime in here to provide clarification on this matter.

  Anyway, I hope this helps. I don’t know how soon you plan on making this cake, but I will be heading home in a few hours and then I’ll have my copy of TCB in front of me, so if you need to, you are welcome to send me a PM and we can discuss the numbers a little more in detail if you need to without actually publishing them in the open. Good luck and have fun with this, chocoholic!

- MP

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Posted: 04 February 2013 01:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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THANK YOU ! THANK YOU ! THANK YOU!
im so excited looking at those tables now=) However still not 100 percent sure so i ll PM you with the numbers as per the book just to make sure im 100 percent on the right track. I also have a question this base layer chocolate butter cake , it seems like the same thing as the all american chocolate butter cake, am i right? So what do we do if we want to bake any other chocolate cake say chocolate fudge ? do u apply the rose factor to that or does it not work out that way?
And yes i too hope someone will chime and clear up whether mutiplying by the rose factor will give enough for 2 pans or 1 ! Would really help me to plan out the mis en place and baking schedule.
Also i was a litte freaked out by this line from TCB PAGE 491 which states
“a 12 by 2 inch pan( ROSE FACTOR 4 ) ” however when i look in the table it says a 12 inch pan falls under rose factor 3 ? So ummm…

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Posted: 04 February 2013 02:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Hi there, chocoholic.

These base formulas are for the white velvet, yellow downy, and All-American chocolate butter cakes only. They are not meant to be applied to all of the cakes in TCB. In the future, if you want to scale up one of Rose’s other cakes you can always ask here if someone else has done that and if so they might be able to help you. Otherwise I would advise just to follow the directions as Rose has written them.

I’m not sure about that line on page 491 because 4 does not match the RF in the table on page 490. Also, she mentions making a 12” cake on page 489 and the RF she mentions on that page does match the one in the table on page 490.

As far as whether applying the RF to the base formula making one or two layers, I just realized that you can make a batch of batter and then see how much batter that makes. You’ll know if it was for one or two layers once you fill one pan with the appropriate mass of batter (found in the table on page 490). I could be wrong, but I believe it’s to fill one pan.

Good luck!

- MP smile

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Posted: 04 February 2013 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The example on p.489 walks you through how to use the charts for a 12x2 round cake (just ignore the bits about the 8” cake that are also in there).  It is accurate, as is the example on p. 489.  I didn’t look up the other, conflicting mention, but the charts are right, I’ve used them for 12x2 inch cakes (as have many, many others).

All of the charts refer to two layers (i.e., two12x2 pans) except the sheet cakes, which are for one pan/layer.  The baking times are reversed for the sheet cakes (i.e, the longer time should be matched with the larger pan).

If you want to try a 12x2 in a recipe other than white/yellow/choc, take a look at Hector’s recent posts over on the blog about converting some of the other recipes to that size ( I think he’s done the Golden Butter Cream cake and the Domingo, if I remember correctly.)  Also, there are 12” versions of the Grand Marnier cake, Deep choc passion, and the Golden Lemon almond cakes in RHC.

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Posted: 04 February 2013 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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The 12” cake is to make two layers but the chart provides the total grams for one layer.  My oven will not hold two 12” pans so I halved everything and made the batter twice. 

I understand your dilemna.  I had a hard time until someone here helped my understand.

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Posted: 04 February 2013 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thanks for the additional information here, Julie and CRenee. I’m finding this very helpful.

CRenee, just so I can make sure I understand you correctly, are you saying that when you apply the appropriate RF (for any size cake) to the base formula that it will make enough batter for two layers, but the batter masses in the chart are for one pan/layer? Thanks.

- MP

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