Orange Filling - I am in trouble
Posted: 26 February 2013 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Well I actually tried making Orange Curd.. I do not like the way it tastes.  Now I realize the instructions said to decrease sugar (I did not).  Bur that is not my problem.  There is a bitter taste that I suspect come from the zest.  I used navel orange zest attempting to make double batch as in PP&B.  I used juice from plain juice oranges (I believe).  I also did not cook the zest in the egg yolks.  I failed to pay full attention and followed the instructions as for Lemon Curd.  I did not taste the curd before putting in the zest so I cannot say for certain that is the problem…but it tastes like it is the problem. 

At this point, I just want to make an orange flavored filling.  I am only willing to go through zesting, juicing again if I can be assured of a great tasting result.  My intent was to make orange curd cream or orange mousseline to fill the cake. 

I find limited choices on oranges at the grocer right now.  Can I make a great tasting filling/frosting with orange oil or grand marnier?  Will more yolk, sugar or butter fix this bitter tasting curd?

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Posted: 26 February 2013 04:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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CRenee - 26 February 2013 05:06 PM

There is a bitter taste that I suspect come from the zest.

It’s quite possible this bitter taste came from the zest, especially if you got any of the white pith from the skin when you did the zesting. Even just a small amount of pith will impart a bitter taste. That’s why zesting always makes me a little nervous. I love when it works out, but if you get any of that white pith in the mixture it can really ruin what would have been a great tasting product.

CRenee - 26 February 2013 05:06 PM

I failed to pay full attention and followed the instructions as for Lemon Curd.

Oh my, I’m so sorry to hear this. I learned this lesson the hard way on the last cake I made for my friend’s birthday cake. Somehow the page had turned to the next page and half way through process of preparing all the ingredients for the Perfect All-American Chocolate Butter Cake I started following the directions for the chocolate cake on the next page and didn’t realize it until the cake was already in the oven. I wondered why the batter amount came up so short and then upon closer inspection of things I quickly realized the error I made. That was just the first in what became a series of errors that day, one of which led to a small fire on my stove top. It was frustrating that day, but I just had to laugh and move on.

CRenee - 26 February 2013 05:06 PM

I find limited choices on oranges at the grocer right now.  Can I make a great tasting filling/frosting with orange oil or grand marnier?  Will more yolk, sugar or butter fix this bitter tasting curd?

I can’t answer the question about the yolk, sugar, or butter, but I can tell you that orange oil and orange liqueur make great flavoring agents. Some fillings are better suited for these additions than others, so you’ll just have to do a little experimenting to see which ones you like best. Personally, I do not care to add liqueur to the mousseline buttercream, but that’s more of a personal taste than anything else. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, Grand Marnier is one of the liqueurs Rose recommends adding to the MBC, but I could be wrong about that. And I also know there are members here who love the addition of a liqueur to the MBC. You might also consider using triple sec liqueur as a flavoring agent if orange flavor is what you’re after. A filling I have come to enjoy, especially with a chocolate cake, is one made with orange marmalade and your choice of orange liqueur.


Good luck with finding something that you like!

- MP smile

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Posted: 26 February 2013 05:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Hi, Renee!

First a question:  Did you try to simply sweeten it to get rid of the bitter taste?  Maybe some honey if you don’t want to use sugar?

Here’s a few orange options for you! 

1.  Just grate the zest into your favorite buttercream or cream cheese frosting or whatever.  A couple of tablespoons should do the trick for a 2-layer cake, provided you let it sit overnight to really get the flavor going.  As MP says, be careful of the pith.

2.  Make orangettes and flavor your frosting with their by-product!  Cut orange peels into strips (including pith).  Boil 1 minute, strain—do this 3x—this gets rid of the bitterness.  I have enough boiling water going so that I can quickly get the next iteration done.  After the last boil-strain, simmer the peels in sugar water (1 part sugar to one part water) for an hour, uncovered.  Then pull out the peels and let them dry on a rack for 24 hours, turning 1/2 way through.  They are delicious, and you can dip them in chocolate (they’re pictured on my macaron post).  Then you can use the thickened syrup as your sugar syrup to make classic buttercream!!!!  It has a very wonderful orange flavor.  That’s how I made the filling for my orange-cardamon-rosewater macarons.

I’m sure grand marinier would only help both of these options!!

Happy oranging!!!

—ak

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Posted: 26 February 2013 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thank you MP - thank you Anne,

I know for certain the issue is not pith.  I love my micrplane.  THe issue could be:  1) of several oranges 1 orange may not have been navel and it could be the culprit.  2) I did not let the zest cook with the yolk 3) I do not like orange curd as much as I like lemon.

I know I have made orange buttercream before. I am certain I only used oil.  I was thinking of getting a marmalade. 

Anne,  I will taste the orange syrup I have from making the orange roses.  How do I know how much sugar syrup to use?  Your description leads me to believe that the problem is the zest should have been cooked some with the yolks.  Well…..

I will let you all know what I end up deciding.

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Posted: 27 February 2013 01:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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There is yet another possibility. There is a disease spreading throughout orange groves the world over. One of the early symptoms is bitter orange peel. There is no health risk for humans but I was just thinking the other day while reading about this problem (in the current issue of Scientific American) that in the future I should taste my orange zest before I use it.

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Posted: 27 February 2013 02:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Gene - 27 February 2013 05:46 AM

There is yet another possibility. There is a disease spreading throughout orange groves the world over. One of the early symptoms is bitter orange peel. There is no health risk for humans but I was just thinking the other day while reading about this problem (in the current issue of Scientific American) that in the future I should taste my orange zest before I use it.

Thank you Gene.  I did not know about that development.  However, I decided I will have to do that in the future as well.  I guess this means I will go to the store buy a single orange, wash it and taste it.  Of course, I can always just resort to orange oil.

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Posted: 27 February 2013 02:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Well the curd still taste horrible to me.  I also did not like the taste of the syrup (and I had two separate batches).  I should have caught a hint when I tasted a part of orange peel that I had candied.  Now I hope noone tries to eat these orange peels. 

Meanwhile, I did test the curd in a small amount of buttercream.  With some orange oil and some grand marnier, I have an orange buttercream that I like well enough.  Now, the disadvantage of living alone is I have noone to test it for me.  No second opinion.  I do not think the curd will work in a curd cream filling (which is what I really wanted).  Of course, if I find myself with some time before this cake is composed (ROFL), I will give it a shot. 

Thank you for your input and listening to me moan.  This may not be the last time I post before this small (still my first wedding) cake is done.  I still have to decide if will smooth it or pipe something all over. No specs from the bride except white buttercream and the candied orange roses.

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Posted: 27 February 2013 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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@Gene, thanks so much for that info!  I have definitely had oranges whose zest didn’t taste good to me, now I know to always taste.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!

@CRenee, how about the super easy orange marmalade whipped cream in RHC?  It is the one paired with the orange chiffon layer cake.  Just be very sure to get sweet marmalade, as the classic bitter variety tastes absolutely terrible in that recipe (voice of experience).  You can also make a delicious creamsicle sort of filling by adding a little orange oil to a classic vanilla whipped cream. 

Finally, my thought on orange buttercream, if the curd doesn’t work, would be to either make mousseline and use cointreau (fancy triple sec) for the liqueur, or else make neoclassic and use the orange oil for flavoring.  Grand Marnier is also orange but has a brandy base that tastes different then cointreau, which just tastes of orange in a neutral base.

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Posted: 27 February 2013 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Julie - 27 February 2013 07:15 PM

@Gene, thanks so much for that info!  I have definitely had oranges whose zest didn’t taste good to me, now I know to always taste.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!

@CRenee, how about the super easy orange marmalade whipped cream in RHC?  It is the one paired with the orange chiffon layer cake.  Just be very sure to get sweet marmalade, as the classic bitter variety tastes absolutely terrible in that recipe (voice of experience).  You can also make a delicious creamsicle sort of filling by adding a little orange oil to a classic vanilla whipped cream. 

Finally, my thought on orange buttercream, if the curd doesn’t work, would be to either make mousseline and use cointreau (fancy triple sec) for the liqueur, or else make neoclassic and use the orange oil for flavoring.  Grand Marnier is also orange but has a brandy base that tastes different then cointreau, which just tastes of orange in a neutral base.

@Gene - This Zest issue is terrible.  I have made a bunch of orange roses.  maybe noone will try to eat them… eeek (sighing at the thought of doing these over). 

@Julie - thank you, thank you, thank you.  I did not look in the index in RHC.  I did spend no fewer than 30 minutes looking at marmalade choices in my Wegman’s.  I ended up just getting Polaner’s because I was thinking I would not end up using it.  It tastes more sweet than orangey.  Can you recommend a brand?  I think I would like to try the orange marmalade whipped cream.  Also, creamsicle sort of filling by adding orange oil to vanilla whipped cream?  Now why did I not think of that??? I guess I will just have to use stabilized whipped cream so it makes a nice filling. 

It has been a while since I have made Neoclassic…I will have to do that at some point just to have its ease and texture in my head. 

thank you all….you know I will update you.

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Posted: 28 February 2013 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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@CRenee, I have been generally surprised at how delicious and easy whipped cream flavored with either orange oil or lemon oil is (coffee or caramel, too).  Sometimes I combine oil or zest with a reduced amount of vanilla, other times I skip the vanilla.  In general, I always add the oils (sparingly) to anything lemon or orange flavored, as the quality of the flavor is just so darn good.  And whipped cream is so easy to run a few tests with, just whip a half batch (or whole batch, depending on how many things you need to test) to soft peaks, then divide into cups and whip in the flavorings.  Then taste, being careful to keep in mind that you don’t want the flavor to overpower the cake it will be paired with.

As for the marmalade brand, I’m afraid I’m not much help.  I made the marmalade whipped cream with a classic bitter marmalade because I was worried about it being too sweet.  It was terrible, of course I should have followed the recipe as written first time making it.  What I ended up doing was making my own jam from tangerines, it was a lot of work to cut out and de-seed all the segments, but it was truly wonderful as a filling and whipped cream flavoring.  Here’s link to the tangerine cake:  http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/index_ee.php/forums/viewthread/3155/

One brand of orange jam that we enjoy is Crofter’s blood orange spread.  It’s a little bitter and medium sweet, I think it would probably benefit from a touch of orange oil.  Perhaps Rose/Woody may have a brand recommendation if you ask over on the blog?

I can relate my experience with one other orange filling, the orange Bavarian from TCB.  When I made this and it was still fresh in the bowl, it was one of the most delicious things I’ve ever tasted, I was really surprised at how good it was.  But I surrounded it with ladyfingers (Charlotte) and made it a day ahead, and between the day of waiting and being covered in cake instead of frosting, it lost some flavor by serving time.  So I’m not sure about the longevity of that one.  But it is truly elegant and lovely when fresh.

Good luck!

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Posted: 02 March 2013 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Julie,  thank you so much….all of this is very helpful.  I was so afraid of the stability of the whipped cream filling.  I did not want to try it without having experiencing it for myself.  This now adds a big item to my to do list.  I am going to experiment without the pressure of a cake due.  And, I will be trying other fillings as well. 

Meanwhile, the Bride decided (on Wednesday…and just in the knick of time) that she wanted the bottom layer to be sweet potato.  I go along because I think (know) it is a huge crowd pleaser.  So since the evolution of this orange filling was because the bottom tier was white and originally the top tier was carrot, I only put orange buttercream (made from orange curd) in the filling in the top tier. 

I will post in show and tell. 

Thank you all again….this orange thing has been a huge learning experience…... I look forward to what will come of it.

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Posted: 02 March 2013 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Sounds like you have your hands full- you could just grab some cointreau and make a lovely orange mousseline, adding a few drops of orange oil if needed.  That way you’ll know it will be perfectly stable and hold up well with the demands of a tiered cake. 

Whatever you do, I’m so looking forward to seeing it!

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Posted: 02 March 2013 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Julie - 02 March 2013 06:52 PM

Sounds like you have your hands full- you could just grab some cointreau and make a lovely orange mousseline, adding a few drops of orange oil if needed.  That way you’ll know it will be perfectly stable and hold up well with the demands of a tiered cake. 

Whatever you do, I’m so looking forward to seeing it!

I will be grabbing some contreau for my pantry.

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Posted: 02 April 2013 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I use orange buttercream frosting, it’s quite a chore to make though.

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