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Very Melty Butercream in Arizona
Posted: 08 October 2008 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi ! Another post from Arizona. I know you have all discussed your warm weather problems alot but I still need help. I really like Rose’s Neoclassic Buttercream. I have used it alot, but I am really having problems with it melting underneath my fondant & bulging where the cake layers are.

Here are the additions I have heard will help stabilize it, what are your experiences with the following:

Dreamwhip

Meringue Powder

Crisco (gross)

Other ideas???


Thanks for the help.

I can’t keep making test batches forever or I will never make a profit smile

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Posted: 08 October 2008 04:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I would just use Mousseline Buttercream.

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Posted: 08 October 2008 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Hey, I just finished a batch of RLB’s Mousseline Buttercream & its sitting under some warm lights….it seems to be holding up VERY well. I also love the shine it has. Thanks so much.

By the way, your cakes are so gorgeous.


smile

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Posted: 09 October 2008 12:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I couldn’t agree more… you need to make the mousseline buttercream.  It’s holding powers are amazing in the heat, and the flavor just can’t be beat!

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Posted: 09 October 2008 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Yes, by all means, the mousseline is very sturdy- best temperature resistance.

If you must have something to firm up a different type of buttercream, you could keep some cocoa butter on hand (sold by King Arthur or Albert Uster), but this is only good to about 90-92 degrees, then it melts.

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Posted: 09 October 2008 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Mousseline buttercream is definitely the way to go. I don’t live in an extremely hot country but Toronto can get really hot in summer. My daughter’s b’day is in July and her party is outdoors almost every year. I have never had the mousseline melt. It really holds up very well.

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Posted: 23 October 2008 04:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Hi, I just made the mousseline buttercream this morning and it was gorgeous.  I added 1/2 cup passionfruit curd to it and couldn’t stop licking all my cooking implements.

Anyway, the problem is, I filled and frosted a test sponge cake with it but before I had finished piping a border and a bit of decorative stuff around the cake (didn’t take too long although admittedly I took a while trying to get the buttercream even) , the cake had started sagging and the top layer almost slid off the bottom.  It’s most definitely lopsided now.  The last bit of buttercream border I piped gushed out of my piping bag all liquidy.

In fact I was quite grateful it has been a relatively cool day today in Singapore - rainy and only about 80 deg F.  so that might have explained my mousseline buttercream success the very first time I tried it.  So I don’t know if
a. I had spent too long trying to smooth the buttercream onto the cake (small- 6 inches only since it was a trial cake)
b. The heat of my hands was too much for the buttercream in the piping bag
c. It’s just not stable enough for our climate no matter what

I was all excited because on reading this thread, I thought I had found the answer to my problem of which filling and buttercream to use for my step-brother’s marriage cake on Nov 3.  I was thinking one solution might be to keep refrigerating the cake between frosting each layer, and before piping decorations, to keep the buttercream cool.  But, now the worry also is that it might not last the car ride to the restaurant!

I am also planning to stick on chocolate transfers (butterflies, a la Whimsical Bakehouse) - and am so afraid they will slide off the melting buttercream!

Does anyone have any ideas?

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Posted: 23 October 2008 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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OK I just wanted to add this evening, after the cake had been chilled a few hours, I sliced a piece to try and before I could finish eating it the buttercream border had become VERY soft and lost any definition it ever had.  Towards the end I was scooping up the buttercream instead of it adhering to the cake.

Wondering if I had in fact done something wrong in the process. The buttercream LOOKS fine, etc. but thinking back, I realised it never went through the thin stage Rose describes, and later emulsifying.  As I added the butter (I let it soften then put it back in the fridge to keep it at 60-65 deg) to it in chunks, it stayed quite billowy.  I also made sure to bring the syrup to 248 deg, then poured straight from saucepan into mixer bowl.  There was no syrup residue in the bowl so I know all of it was beaten in.

I’m wondering if it would help to bring the syrup to a higher temp?  Or could it have been due to the humidity of a tropical rainy day?  I didn’t have this problem when making the neoclassic buttercream for the checkerboard cake some time ago. 

On reading another thread about too-soft mousseline I noted the addition of the liqueur called for in the recipe also acts to soften it, as does the curd.  Because I do not have any liqueur in the house I used 3 fl oz of vodka flavoured with pure orange extract instead. (And with this, the buttercream tasted great even before adding the passionfruit curd!)

The passionfruit flavoured buttercream is absolutely gorgeous in taste and feel, and I really want to make it work and not have to resort to using a tasteless shortening buttercream :-(

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Posted: 23 October 2008 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Hmmm, this is a stumper.  Normally, mousseline does not melt at 80 degrees, or even at 90.  It should be soft, airy and creamy, but still hold its shape.  Mine always thins out and then thickens up (dramatically!) as I add the butter.  Two things come to mind, the curd and the sugar syrup. 

How liquid-y was the passion fruit curd at room temp?  I see you did limit yourself to adding the amount specified, is that right?  Sometimes if the fruit isn’t too acidic, the curd doesn’t set very well and is softer.  I’ve heard you can add a little lemon juice to the puree to address this, but I haven’t tried it so I can’t vouch for its success.

As for the sugar syrup, re-check the weight of your sugar and the accuracy of your thermometer, a few degrees under temperature could be a problem.  And you need to use all of it, don’t leave any clinging to the pan.  After that, if you still want to tinker with it, you could try adding a little more syrup, but don’t increase the temperature.

Lastly, I love the texture a little alcohol creates with Mousseline, so I would recommend reducing but not eliminating the orange-vodka liquor.  You could try using 1/3 the amount, or 1oz.

Good Luck!

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Posted: 23 October 2008 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thanks Julie… I had added a teaspoonful of lemon juice to my passionfruit curd to help it thicken up, and cooked it to a nice thickness - so it was fairly well-set and curd-ish at room temp. 

Since I had poured the syrup straight from the saucepan there was a bit clinging to it that I could not scrape out - that could be one reason that I could rectify the next time.  I’m thinking now of ditching my instant-read thermometer and geting a Wilton candy thermometer for such purposes, although strictly speaking in the past the instant-read has not let me down for all other Italian Meringue applications.

The buttercream was fine from the refrigerator but softened extremely quickly at room temp yesterday which was of course tropical Singapore - but I figured it can’t be much worse than what Hector has to deal with and there was NO WAY I could’ve piped roses from that stuff.

I guess it’s back to the drawing board… and using that delicious test batch to fill cupcakes!

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Posted: 24 October 2008 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I made the buttercream for my daughter’s birthday cake last weekend and it held up very well (Outdoors in the afternoon, in Malaysia!) There was a point when the cake was in direct sun for about 10 minutes - Yikes! It was the chocolate butter cake filled with strawberry mousseline and sliced fresh strawberries, frosted with Bill’s chocolate mousseline (thank you Bill, it’s really really delicious) and the whole thing was covered with 2 layers of chocolate cream glaze. Yes the mousseline got a little soft but it held up extremely well and did not melt all over the place. I was pleasantly surprised as I was a bit worried about the fact that it was outdoors..

So maybe the problem with melty mousseline is that the sugar syrup did not quite come up to the correct temp. Although I also served small cupcakes with brown sugar buttercream where the brown sugar syrup is only heated to 238 degrees…and they held up very well too. Little Island, usually when I pipe with mousseline I take little breaks and rub my hands with ice to cool them before continuing. Otherwise the heat from my hands can melt the buttercream in the piping bag and the last bits come out all mushy.

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Posted: 24 October 2008 10:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Thanks so much Shimi!  That’s good advice.  I’m going to try the buttercream again within the next couple of days (gotta make some curd or bake up some buttercake first to yield the egg whites!) because it sounds as though something went wrong with the sugar temp or I could cut down on the alcohol… and yes, hot hands I most definitely have too.

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Posted: 24 October 2008 11:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Do try again LittleIsland because it really works for our weather conditions. I’ve had cakes done with MBC indoors (with and without A/C) and outdoors, and it has never let me down so far. Another thing is that I never put alcohol in mine; I know that it helps emulsify the buttercream for better texture but it’s not an option for me so I don’t know if that contributes to its ‘holding power’. But Hector always puts it in his and he never has problems either so maybe it is just a matter of tweaking the amount to find out what works.

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Posted: 25 October 2008 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I never add alcohol and don’t think it contributes to the mousseline’s stability.

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Posted: 25 October 2008 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Hi.  I’m a long term lurker and have a question about omitting the alcohol from the mousseline buttercream.  I I leave it out, do I have to modify the recipe in any way?  thanks for your help.

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Posted: 26 October 2008 03:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Hi Groomer - Welcome!  To answer your question, nope.. you don’t have to alter the mousseline recipe to omit the alcohol.  Just leave it out smile.  Now, don’t be a stranger!!!

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