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large batches of mousseline buttercream
Posted: 11 November 2008 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi there!
I’m curious about making large batches of Rose’s mousseline buttercream. I’ve been making the 11 cup quantity, and am wondering if I can double (or more!) this recipe in a larger mixer. Will this work???
Thank you…

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Posted: 11 November 2008 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Hi Aunt Boots.  I usually make a double batch in my 6qt KitchenAid stand mixer (Mousseline recipe on page 244 of TCB), but I find the larger batches of mousseline actually take longer to make because the meringue base takes that much longer to cool (enter the need for a water bath attachment on my KitchenAid).  Sometimes I find it’s just easier to do two smaller batches in two mixers.  I’ve also made triple batches of the meringue base and then divided the meringue up into 3 equal portions before incorporating the butter in each batch either by KA or hand held mixer (or both).  Hope that makes sense.

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Posted: 11 November 2008 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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for the last 3 weeks I have made 6x batches of MBC in a 30 qt mixer. the mixer is not the greatest but it’s working OK. Problems: the sugar can take forever to reach that last 2-3 degrees, the mixer doesn’t have a medium setting so in order to mix the butter i have to use the high setting and it makes the meringue super thick before it finally comes together, i over did it on the cream of tartar once and it took a long time for the meringue to fluff up. i don’t know if that’s what did it, but it was the only thing i had changed.  so really the only problems i’ve had are with the mixer and not so much with the recipe.

jen

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Posted: 11 November 2008 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I have another mousseline question- does it always “curdle”, or is it possible to make it without that happening?  When I make it, it always goes through a stage where it curdles and comes together in sort of a tight ball before loosening up again as I continue to add the rest of the butter. 

It always turns out all right in the end, but I wonder if maybe I might be able to make it lighter and fluffier if I can minimize that “tight ball” stage?

Does anyone know ideal temperatures for the meringue and butter?  Baking nerd that I am, I would be only too happy to monitor temperatures in quest of the ultimate fluffiness!

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Posted: 11 November 2008 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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i believe the curdle stage is a result of the fat and liquid becoming an emulsion. i don’t think there is any way to skip it as it is merely what happens when the two substances combine.

the tight ball stage sounds like a result of beating the meringue on a high speed before the butter and egg emulsify. in my experience it doesn’t minimize the fluffiness of the final result.

jen

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Posted: 12 November 2008 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I don’t always get the curdling - and if I do, it’s quite slight.  It’s nothing like the massive curdling I get when trying to rebeat cold/cool mousseline buttercream from the refrigerator before using it.  That kind of curdling is the almost complete separation of oil and liquid before re-emulsifying.

In addition, when making the mousseline buttercream I always use butter straight from the refrigerator now - I don’t leave it out for any period of time to soften.  I prefer a little bit of curdling during the beating stage (and it usually comes out of it VERY quickly) to having melty mousseline like my first attempt.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thanks for all the info!

Jen—when you were making 6x the MBC, were you doing 6x the regular recipe or 6x the 11cup recipe? Probably the regular I’d imagine…A little question about the sugar syrup: b/c it will take so long to reach 248, will too much of the liquid evaporate? Would this have any effect on the finished buttercream? Just curious…

Thanks again to everyone for the advice…I’m going to give it a try and see how it works!

betsy

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Posted: 12 November 2008 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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evaporate?? betsy, i do not approach my baking with a scientific mind! lol i always assumed that the water evaporating was part of the process of getting it up to temp. uhh i skip the step where you transfer to heat proof container. i just go from pan to mixer.  i haven’t found there to be an significant difference in flavor. i do always taste before adding the vanilla and if it needs to be sweeter, i add more vanilla.


i use the basic recipe because i have it memorized!

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Posted: 12 November 2008 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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alright, alright…LOL…
fair enough, sounds like it works well for you…and you even skip steps!! amazing…i’m going to try it tomorrow!
thanks!
betsy

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Posted: 12 November 2008 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I always go from pan to mixer…I do not pour it into a heat proof measuring cup.  I don’t want to loose any syrup…and I don’t find it ever has caused a problem for me.  (Sorry Rose)  And yes….the water is supposed to evaporate.  The temperature of the syrup is dependant on t the amount of water left in the pan.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Oh…and just a note on Mousseline in very large batches.  It takes soooo long for the syrup to cool…it is probably faster to do it in multiple, smaller batches.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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i actually find the opposite to be the case. It cools rather quickly and if it doesn’t i can always add cold butter first before adding room temp butter.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 07:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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That’s exactly what I do…I add butter straight from the fridge to cool things down…when I’m impatient….which is often, very very often.

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Posted: 12 November 2008 08:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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This is all such great information…I usually try to be so meticulous with Rose’s recipes…it is after all, the bible! But skipping the transfer to a heat proof cup sounds much easier (quicker clean up too!!)...and good idea about cooling it with the cold butter. Even when I make it in the 11 cup batch it takes for.ever. to cool down. I’m so excited to try it out this way.
Thanks!

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Posted: 29 November 2008 11:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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okay so i said to myself i was going to keep this a secret, take it to my grave, not let wild horses, interrogation specialists or people armed with blunt spoons drag it out of me etc etc but…. it is sunday, and i have hot coffee and a bun so i guess that means i’m in a good mood…. the tips are actually for the neoclassic buttercream but you may be able to extract some information and apply it to the mousseline….

so for ultimate neoclassic fluffiness… whisk and warm the eggs up in a water bath till they are just approachig warm… this ought to be about body temperature…. stick them in the kitchen aid and start beating them…

you really need to use a glass measuring cup for this, or at the very least a tall glass with a handle…

now you need to boil some water in your kettle…. don’t ask why, just comply…. before it starts to boil or simmer turn it off….

while the water is heating , start with your syrup and let it climb to the temperature you need it to get to….

meanwhile you’ll put the hot water into a basin or a tub or if your glass fits into the top of your kettle then you won’t need a separate basin…

so as soon as your syrup hits the right temperature take it off the flame and pour it into your glass…. chuck the pan on your mountain high pile of pots, spatulas and other tools sitting in the sink…. you should at this point,  according to the book, put your glass of syrup in a cold water bath to stop it from cooking…. i usually skip this step and put my glass directly into my kettle (or basin of hot water) to keep the syrup fluid…. for me… this usually buys me a few minutes of time to collect myself and gather myself together before i start adding the syrup to the eggs….

so now… what i do is i just add the syrup which is still very fluid in a seriously thin stream .... if you are careful enough you don’t actually need to turn the mixer off at all and nothing splatters and the result are that you have a really really really fluffy base before you start adding the butter…. the first few times i tried to make the neoclassic… my biggest problem was with the syrup which very quickly became hard to “pour” because it was starting to cool….

i personally think that curdling happens due to temperature differences between the egg mixture and the butter so i guess the thing you want to do is make sure that your butter is the temperature of your mixture before you start adding it to the mixture…. also creaming the butter beforehand…. i guess this would add extra air…. but i really think that the purpose of the creaming is more to get it to the same texture as the egg mixture so that it blends easier…. but then i’m not sure if easier blending = better blending….

and as for the big batch question… i don’t see why if you had a mixer big enough you couldn’t make giant batches of this…. there’s no real chemical reaction going on right? 

(where are the scientific papers on cake science?????????????????????????????????????????????? what is the point of men on the moon if they can’t bake a cookie when they get there????? raspberry )

sugar boutique - over and out.

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Posted: 02 December 2008 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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hey sugarboutique, try the classic buttercream recipe and your sugar will stay hot a little longer and may save you some steps.

also one thing i’ve found with the classic is that it is so hot for so long that the steam rising from the mixture cleans any sugar splatters off the walls of the bowl, so i don’t worry about that either. for me speed is very important!

grin

jen

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