do I wait for the buttercream icing to dry before placing fondant? NEWBEE!
Posted: 18 February 2009 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hello, I’m new to this site. 

I’m baking a birthday cake for my newphews their 7 years old.

1. When icing my cake do I first crumb coat it and wait .40 mintues and coat again?

2. Do I wait for the icing to dry than place the fondant on top?

I don’t like the taste of the Wilton fondant to sugary, YUK. So I like to place a nice coat of icing just in case others don’t like it either than can peel away the fondant.
Had a problem twice where I placed the fondant and next am it saged.

3. How do I measure the dowels that I’m putting inside the cake to hold the second tier.  The pan is 10x2 square how can I cut it before I bake the cake.  What do I buy to cut the dowels? Someone told me a saw, what will I do with a big saw. LOL


Thank you in advance for your responses

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Posted: 18 February 2009 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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normally, the thickness of the icing needs to be thin for the fondant not to sag, so I don’t know how you will go by with the intention of providing a nice layer of icing in case people peel away the fondant.  I suggest you borrow or buy a copy of Cake Bible.

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Posted: 18 February 2009 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Hi Vivian - Welcome.  I think I can answer a few of your questions.  Let start with the last question and go backwards.  I purchased a little hand-held saw/miter box combo in the dollhouse section of the craft store.  If you get them there, do not get the saw with the interchangeable blades… the darn blade falls out constantly.  You can also cut dowels with pruning shears or heavy duty utility nips.  HOWEVER, a much easier way to go is to use straws instead of dowels - they are very strong and you can easily cut them with scissors (I’ve stacked a 3-tier cake with straws). 

To measure, first make sure your finished tier is level.  Then push a dowel or straw into the tier until you hit the cake board/plate (go straight, no angles), mark where you want to cut, then pull it out and cut it.  Then use that one as a guide for all the others you’ll need for that tier (you’ll need to measure each tier separately).  Be sure your tier is very level, and that you insert your supports by pushing them straight down (no angles, not even a slight one, or the weight from above cake can make the supports start to slide, then serious leaning or even collapse can occur). 

Don’t know if we’ll be able to answer your buttercream/fondant question.  This site is the discussion forum for Real Baking with Rose (aka Rose Levy Beranbaum, author of The Cake Bible).  She’s our leader, and we, he devotees… you won’t find a lot of experience among these bakers when referring to buttercream that “dries” or prepackaged fondant.  We’re pretty loyal to Rose’s scratch recipes, including fondant and Italian Meringue Buttercream (contains no shortening, marshmallows, or powdered sugar).  I can tell you this, Rose’s fondant can be applied over her buttercream after the buttercream has had a chance to chill until it firms. 

I’d really encourage you to check out a copy of the cake bible from your local library some time…. and stay tuned for Rose’s Heavenly Cakes which is due to be released this year. 

Hope I was of some help to you.  Don’t be a stranger.

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Posted: 18 February 2009 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thank you.

I too like to make things from scratch.  When I said buttercream dries I meant after I crumb coated do I wait .40 minutes than do the second coating of icing.

I purchaed The Cake Bible on the 14th of this month.  I read thru it have to find time. I will make her fondant the next time.  Has to be better than Wilton’s. 

I really bought the book because of all the mention about the Mousseline icing. I have to make that and try them.  Thank you for that insight on the STRAWS. WOW.

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Posted: 18 February 2009 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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My pleasure… the straws were a suggestion from Rose smile

For crumb coating with Mousseline, I just let it firm in the fridge for a couple of minutes, then apply the next layer.  Check out the blog (link at upper left hand side of this page, under Rose) - when you get there, search for fondant and new Crisco - you’ll find some helpful info there.  Apparently the new formulation of non-trans fat Crisco doesn’t work well with her 20+ year old fondant recipe.  I see Crisco is now selling a trans fat version again, but I don’t know if it’s the original formula or not, however Spectrum Organic Shortening works very nicely with Rose’s fondant recipe.  (thinking out loud - I wonder if Rose’s new book will have a new fondant recipe?)

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Posted: 18 February 2009 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Hello, Patrincia,

Thank you for all your helpful tips.  I took a Wilton class but, so much to learn so little time. Your cakes are so beautiful.  I clicked on that website you have, Patrincia, u did not use fondant u just put icing on it. SO WELL looks as if it were fondant. WOW I want to b like that! Hope I can get to the point where I can sell them for some income.LOL
Have a bless nite.

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Posted: 18 February 2009 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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You’re too kind… I started just like you, making cakes for the family.  If you want to do succeed, you will!!!!!!!!

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Posted: 18 February 2009 09:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Fondant will sag when it is too thick - and it can also sag if there’s nothing for it to hold onto.  Usually a crusting buttercream isn’t a good surface for fondant to adhere to (ganache has the same problem) so that could be part of the problem.

You can apply one or two layers of buttercream, whatever your preference when you are planning to cover with fondant.  Sometimes I do two coats, and waiting at least an hour between the first and second is a good idea.  Sometimes it can help to assemble the layer cake, then wrap well in plastic wrap and refrigerate overnight.  Then apply the buttercream coats.  This way, the cake “settles” and is well chilled when you go to work with it.  If the cake is not well chilled, you may find that the layers shift when you are smoothing the fondant into place.  How long it takes to firm up depends on whether your cake layers are cold before you started to assemble or were they at rm temp.

There are good commercially made fondants out there, almost all of them are available through food service distributors.  One that is available to the retail public is Albert Uster Imports (Rose recommends their Massa Ticino in the book, but that has been replaced by their Massa Grischuna) but you may have to buy quite a large quantity of it and that might not be cost effective for you.  It maybe better for you to make your own.  It keeps for quite a while well wrapped, so make it - and make more than you think you need! - in advance if you can.

Your cake should be very level when you go to put the supports in.  Use a small level to check.  You may even want to use a hemming tool to measure the height in four (or however many supports you need) or more places to see how tall you need to make the support. I use bubble tea straws that I can cut with a serrated knife very easily; the same is true for the plastic hollow dowels that Wilton sells.  If it is not entirely level, you may need to put a piece of cardboard as a “shim” and then use decoration or a bottom border to mask the gap.

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Posted: 19 February 2009 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Hi, Jeanne,
Thank you for the icing info. I’m going to hunt the at the health food store Spectrum Organic Shortening and make my own fondant. Anyway, it’s fun to make this on your own from scratch and cost less.
Actually, the cake I’m going to bake will be stacked (10x2 and 6X3)and yes I would use 4 dowels can’t find at the store the plastic ones and I’ll use the cardboard thru them.
Jeanne, instead of the cardboard can I use the cake separator plate?
I was reading the book last nite with a little book lite my son was sleeping and I didn’t see any recipe for fillings with bananas or is there one?  I want to make a banana custard filling found a recipe wondering how the bananas won’t turn black inside the cake. LOL Should I put 1 or 2 teaspoons of lemon juice?
My family wants me to make banana fillings and bavarian’s with slice fresh strawberries on top.
Anyway, today after work I take my son excersie class than home to make buttercream and tomorow nite the cake for Saturday. I’ll decorate on Saturday am. WHEW.

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Posted: 19 February 2009 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I’ve purchased Spectrum at the health food store, but recently found it at my grocery - same size container, but like $2 cheaper (in the organic section).  If you’re only supporting a 6-inch tier, you can use regular drinking straws (not the bendy parts of course).

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